Your attempt to address the proverbial elephant in the room is commendable but to me it is clear you are still very much one sided in your take. THE CHUCRCH, the WHOLE BODY in America has fallen away from GOD's AGENDA and adopted ITS OWN. This is why it have 'black churches' and 'white churches' the former politically aligning itself with the DNC and the latter with the RNC. This division that you wish to highlight now is A LITTLE TOO LATE in my view because this division has been APPARENT ever since, it is just that this election in particular has MAGNIFIED it more than any other. This is an opportunity for the church to examine itself to see where it has GONE WRONG in involving itself in politics. Church members should have been encouraged to vote for the candidate who EACH INDIVIDUAL deem to be the best one who will see after the country's ECONOMIC and SOCIAL well being as well as its SECURITY. THAT IS IT. Instead what you had and had always had, is members being told to vote for the one who suits their RACIAL identity or RELIGIOUS ideology. You have a platform sir, call out both sides because the fault lies on BOTH SIDES.
@@churchdropout Ok let me restate my post. I said that your attempt to address the proverbial elephant in the room is commendable but you were still ONE SIDED in your assessment. The truth is, this division in the body of Christ in the US has been there for YEARS and has ALWAYS been evident but I can't recall ANYONE addressing it as much as it has been done now, yourself including. The mere fact that you have 'black churches' and 'whites churches' tells you clearly that something is absolutely WRONG with the way things are in the body of Christ in America. Every election cycle has seen the 'black churches' voting for a certain party and the 'white churches' voting for the other and the members are encouraged to do so based on the candidate who best represent their RACIAL identity or RELIGIOUS ideology, instead of voting for the candidate who you as an individual think will best see after AMERICA's Economic and Social well being as well as its Security. This election more than any other and any other thing has MAGNIFIED the differences and division even more and now people like you and others are on here talking about something that has been going for AGES. The simple problem is that the church has lost its way. It has left off GOD's AGENDA and started its OWN AGENDA. As a result, America today is more LAWLESS, UNGODLY and IMMORAL than ever although it has way more churches than ever before. Both 'sides' are to blame, none more than the other and until people like you call it as it IS and not what you FEEL then it will continue to go this way. At NO TIME must the church involve itself in POLITICS to play any active role other than to VOTE and do so with the consideration being ONLY what I stated above. If not, you will constantly have this divide within the body of Christ which today is soooo glaring and horrifying and which has resulted in there being over 47,000 DIFFERENT 'Christian' denominations in the world, most of which don't ever affiliate or cooperate with the others because apparently they are on the 'right track' and the others are not.
Thank you for saying this brother! I was one of those people who attempted to assimilate. However there is an attitude of uncomfortability disrespect and dismissal towards black people in the evangelical church. I moved back to the black church because I felt like an outsider in the evangelical church. This election showed clearly how white Christians feel about Black Christians. I dont even consider myself an evangelical at all. Itvseems like they love a white America more than the gospel and non white people.
So by an election you can just assume the thoughts and motives of people based on their melanin count??!! That's sinful thinking. Couldn't someone say the exact opposite? This mentality isn't biblical. It's partial based on assumptions.
The division in the church is really appalling but we need to admit that it has been so for a LONG TIME. When you have 'black churches' and 'white churches' then you know there is no UNITY there. Every election cycle sees 'black churches' STEADFASTLY voting for a certain party and 'white churches' STEADFASTLY voting for the other because one party resonates with either your RACIAL/ETHNIC identity or RELIGIOUS ideology. This election just happens to be the one event that HIGHLIGHTS/MAGNIFIES the division more than any other. This discord within the body of Christ in America and indeed all over the world has resulted in there being 47,000 DIFFERENT 'Christian denominations most of whom don't ever interact or associate with others because apparently they are on the 'right track' and the others are not. All the while, our enemy has been rejoicing at all the schisms while he operates in this world almost with full impunity resulting in America becoming more LAWLESS, UNGODLY and IMMORAL over the years. Until the church gets back to following GOD's Agenda and not its own - recruiting 'members' and not making disciples - then the infighting and division will remain.
IT has been divided ever since though. When you have 47, 000 Christian denominations, many of which are in disagreement with the others, then it is a house divided against itself. This is the reason why they has been sooooo INEFFECTIVE in the communities they exist in. America, for all its 'Judeo-Christian' background, is a country full of VIOLENCE, UNGODLINESS and IMMORALITY while having the most 'Christian' denominations in the world. This election highlighted more than any other how far the church has fallen away from what its main OBJECTIVE and ROLE should be, that is to win souls for God's kingdom. It is busy 'recruiting' members that will help full its coffers with tithe and offering and endorsing this politician over the other because that particular politician fits either their RACIAL or RELIGIOUS identity. The enemy has had CENTURIES of experience with us humans and with the church. He fully knows what he has to do to set it off its true course and agenda and he has done an excellent job in doing just that. This is why he has been able to operate with almost FULL IMPUGNITY in this world.
I do agree with what you say, and I agree. I just left my church over teaching, take a position in support of Christian Nationalism. The church was fairly large and very diverse. I was very proud of that fact, but I see what you mean by blacks joining the White churches, but the white churches not changing. I just started listening to you, and realize I have much to learn! Being a white woman, even though I support social justice, I still have a long way to go.
So many good points made. These conversations aren't being had with both camps. We've tried....but like you said it's really one sided. If we actually tried to see each other like brothers or sisters in Christ and drop all these other things we'd be better off. We all supposedly serve the same God as belivers. These are hard but necessary discussions, but nothing is gonna change unless we grit our teeth and have them.
Unfortunately, White Christians do not want to have these conversations. So it becomes the elephant in the room in which you dance around or leave the room altogether.
The church has no business involving itself in politics. We’re commanded to abide by the laws of the land and honor those in positions of power (as long as laws don’t conflict with the commands of God) Romans 13:1-7.
Wrong! The Church is supposed to be salt and light in this world, and Romans 13: 1-7 says nothing of Christian non-involvement. Some people think that Christianity is supposed to be a cloister of monks that are walled up and physically separated from the world.
@ Not at all. We are called to spread the word of God to all. That does not mean we are supposed to involve ourselves in politics. In fact, you will not find a single verse commanding us to involve ourselves in politics. But you will find commands for us to be subject to the authorities over us. See Romans 13:1-7: 1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. Notice how nowhere in these verses does it say we should try to vote into power certain people to spread the gospel, it simply says we should be subject to them. In fact, notice in verse 2 how it says if we resist those in authority resist God Himself. I for one don’t want to be found trying to vote into power someone God has not chosen to be placed in power.
Trump is God’s test to the church and the country to see how people are going to treat each other, whether is loving or hateful. The Bible says you will know them by their fruits.
Trump is not God's test for anything. The church has got itself involve in something it has no business in and now some are glad and some are sad. WHY? Because it has LOST ITS WAY. Truth is, the American churches be they black or white (just saying that is sad in and of itself) have left off GOD's AGENDA and has taken up THEIR OWN.
There are so many perspectives and prophecies regarding the purpose of Trump being elected. Some of it is legit and some of it is just a bunch of right-wing propaganda... Who truly knows the reason ?... Only the Lord.
This is a great topic! I believe there is a shift happening within the church where conservatives of all nationalities are worshipping together. I attend a multicultural church where it just so happens the head pastor is a man of color, prior to the current pastor there was a Caucasian pastor and the same members are still attending. I pray all Believers will be unified in Christ!
That's wonderful. It is very rare that Non-Black Christians will follow or even listen to Black Christian Leaders. Your church is an anomaly, but an example of what should be taking place.
Perhaps looking at the numbers they describe a division based upon race and racism, and not division among Christians. Not everything that wears the label of Christian, is Christian!
Most black people do not refer to ourselves as evangelicals. I really didn't even know what that term really meant until 10 years ago, even though I heard it.
True. The term no longer means what it meant years ago. With that being said it’s always represented white church culture in my opinion. I just used the terms are expressed to make the greater point. Appreciate the comment!
This is spot on. Even my former Pentecostal Pastor said he did identify with the Evangelical Movement because of its legacy of and apathy towards racial injustice.
@@akadwriteryes. The way church is done (liturgy, theology, community dynamics) in most cases that many would see a “church” is white. It’s sin da weird because it’s considered default church culture.
@@churchdropout It's sin to do it a certain way culturally? I think it's a sin of you make cultural issues bigger than they are. I think it's a sin to lump in whole groups of people based on skin color. I believe America as a whole is under God's judgment. We have long ignored Him. Persecution will unify true believers.
I can't wrap my mind around any believer supporting a woman like Kamala and a party platform that praises evil like baby murder!!?? I get not wanting to vote for Trump, but how could a Christian support the Dem party??
Let me explain scripturally why I did, and you can do the same. The Democratic party supports abortion. God and God alone controls conception and He opens and closes a woman's womb. ( Gen. 29:31;30:2, 20, 22;1 Sam. 1:5,6; Ruth 4:13) Please take the time to read them . Abortion STOPS a process that Almighty God Himself STARTED as a Christian how can you be comfortable supporting that? The Democratic party supports homosexuality. The Democratic party has lit up the White House with gay pride colors and has had topless transgenders dancing on the White House lawn. Now you might not think that's a big deal UNTIL you read 2 Peter 2:6 and Jude 7 where it says that Sodom and Gomorrah was an EXAMPLE For those who live that lifestyle afterwards. So ACCORDING to God's word just where do you see the Democratic party is LEADING America? Does that really look like a Christian's best choice for leaders? God's word says that homosexuals WILL NOT enter the kingdom of God. (1 Cor.6:9) This is where I really have a problem. If I or any other Christian tries to share the Good News message about God's love and forgiveness and the need to repent to a homosexual that's now considered HATE speech by the Democratic party. How can you support a party that tries to SILENCE God's word? Real Christians are trying to get them into the Kingdom of God and being hated for it. Your turn.
Is called fundamentalism. Is a movement that started in church at the end of the 1900 and beginning of 2000. It was born in a seminary and the movement yielded two volumes called The fundamentalists. And is tied to the secular movement called Conservatusm.
There are complex issues at hand here. This video scratches the surface and one statistic is very hard to draw so many conclusions from. Glad the can of worms is opened and the heart of this video has great merit. Perhaps a video with two people talking would help?
The conversations were being had especially in spring of 2020 in a way I e never seen before, but it didn’t really stick with them. I remember having these hard conversations with my white friends because I believed in the proximity theory and it was like the whole time, I wasn’t black, until I talked about racism and then all of a sudden my black skin became apparent. They would get defensive and were not open and I just wanted to understand their perspective on the matter in the same way they felt comfortable talking to their white friends about race, they were not comfortable talking to me about it. Little did I know what they were really saying to each other at the time. So we can have these convos, they will pretend to care, the first time, but if it continues they will get defensive and they are not interested at all. They just aren’t. They have their opinion and having us in their lives, does not change anything unfortunately.
@@kayday298 Question. When you talked about racism was it from the angle that all white people are somehow to blame for George Floyd or for other social sins?? Because that's what I heard loud and clear from many so called brothers in Christ.
As we see the day drawing near it appears to me that John 15:15 is an actual hermeneutic. Those who love one another most, see what the Father is likely doing the most. Thanks for your unique and fresh take brother. Blessings.
Well i asked the question some years ago to the Lord........the question was how can slavery and the horrors of it persist for sooo long where was the church specifically the white church?
As a local pastor in NYC, my opinion is that - this is a noble effort on practical theology but I disagree with presupposition/initial conclusion on the subject matter. What we, as the body of Christ (from the US perspective), need is NOT unity as the priority in current state of the church age but the genuine definition of the Gospel of Christ; definition first before demonstration. God bless.
Respect. I don’t disagree I think they are both needed. But what’s missing in my opinion is practical implications of gospel. We pontificate on what the gospel means while ignoring what it does. If we look at Jesus we see what gospel in motion looks like. I love theology. But what western Christianity needs is not just deep - we need wide. We have a lot of knowledge yet so little understanding. I’m dropping a video on something Joel Webbon said that demonstrates this perfectly. Someone who can articulate the gospel, at least a reformed view, and yet miss its message. Expressing something that looks radically different than Christ. We are told love God and live your neighbor. We don’t need a robust theology to understand what this means. At time our robust theology is an excuse to ignore what’s practical. Appreciate the comment. Blessings.
@@churchdropout I also respectable disagree on some point as noted but also I respectably agree with your follow-up point. What also may be missing in your practical theology analysis is the extended coverage of asian christian faith in our community. This is a noble effort but collection of biblical obervations may further edify the bride of Christ in our community. As i'm an asian american pastor, I would be happy to share my humble view the Lord wills. God bless you for good work in the Lord. -pastor Allen Yoo
@@ChristGraceTruth Absolutely brother. I appreciate your perspective and dialogue. Especially as an Asian American Pastor! Peace and Blessings to you and your local fellowship.! We share a great name (Allen) with the same spelling! Amen!
@@churchdropout Haha praise our Lord. I also have my respect for you in the Lord & i trust it is all for His glory-alone. Looking fwd to chat offline. Have a blessing Lord's day tmr & God bless you brothet
The most segregated hour in America has been and continues to be on Sunday mornings. I have noted the some of the same conclusions you addressed in this video, especially about white Christians hardly ever joining a black church. It’s a rare occurrence and all to often African American Pastors are overlooked theologically. I thought for a moment that multicultural church plants would thrive but I’m not totally seeing a complete change. The problem wasn’t totally political to began with but social. It started long before most of us were here and remnants of it still exist and now with the political climate has super charged if. I fear just like Israel we are just gonna have to wonder in the wilderness until the remnant of yesterdays past has gone on.
You have to look at Hispanic Protestant Church. I grew up in one and they align to White Evangelical one. They are so fundamentalist. They aligned more to White Evangelists. Thats why Latin/Hispanic voted the way they did
@@jonathanchavez8007 I consider Hispanics and other ethnicity who are not black to share the same perspectives as White Evangelicals. The true division is between Black Christians and everyone else.
@ Makes sense. Not trying to argue, but what about the Dominican Republic Christians, or Afro Latinos Churches? In the Spanish Speaking Churches, the best worship groups coming out lately are from DR, Colombia, Venezuela and they are Afro Latinos and so Pro Trump. Why? Did White Christian Nationalist get there first? I agree with you tho but its scary they are like that knowing this Nationalist dont care of they are Chrstians. Just look up Robert Greene. He is from DR but Super Trumper. God Bless tho wished I was raised in a Black Church now
The proximity theory, I use to believe in that, that the proximity theory can change a person’s mind or at least open it up if there is a level of intimacy between two contrasting paths or people, but despite having “best friends” within the church, people I thought I was so close with, but looked differently than me, I realized having me in their life and knowing me did not change their perspective on people like me. It didn’t open up their perspective. 2020 was a big eye opener for me personally with my white friends and seeing them look at me with blank eyes with some of the stuff that have been happening the last few years. I saw all the so called diversity as a false mirage. I went to a church the other day first time, I saw so many black people as greeters and directing traffic. As a first time guest, I thought wow, this church must be very diverse. When I went in, only white people in the auditorium. I was like, where did all the diversity go😂😂😂 they were all outside, but the image created outside infers what you will see on the inside and that was not the case. I looked up the board members of the church like the deacons, business manager, only white faces all across. At that point it just felt like “oh they let someone like me in but it’s really not truly open.” But yeah my heart broke when I realized that the proximity theory does not really work with them because it did with me. I was open to seeing who they were, I was open to genuinely getting to know them and in the end people like us are just like an experiment or an experience for them to feel evolved.
"All white governing board" That's a red flag right there. As a Black Christian, that is one of the things we need to examine before joining a church. After examining the theological teaching, you then have to ask "Do I truly have the potential to grow here spiritually, in ministry, and leadership if the Lord calls me to it ?" The physical representation of the church governing body is indicative of the mindset of the members.
God wants us to be mindful of people who cause divisions and to distance ourselves from such disruptive influences (Rom. 16:17, 2 Tim. 16-17). The Lord loves unity so it is natural that he hates division (Ps. 133:1, John 17:20-21, 2 Tim.
The fact of the matter is capitalism. There is no financial incentive for white evangelicals to cater to black evangelicals. That would be a money loser full stop. Black people are not about to be immersed in evangelical anti blackness. So yeah, it’s about money. You need to check out Lil Bill cause man he hit the nail on the head about the church and why it is what it is.
However there is no concrete discussions in search of reconciliation and justice repairing the damage that was done is being done.....those numbers are crystal clear there s a problem. It was true the last time he ran.
IT has been this way EVER SINCE. The 'black churches' have always ALIGNED themselves to the DNC and 'white churches' with the RNC. Before the emergence of the MAGA movement, people on both sides chose to IGNORE this difference but now it is has been MAGNIFIED and the disunity WITHIN the body of Christ cannot be hidden anymore.
However JESUS said I came that you might have life and life more abundantly......so na that is used as a means of power and control but at the root is racism.
THANK YOU FOR REPLYING ALLEN. I REALIZE I MENTIONED THE "UN-ALIVING" WORD. I HEARD THE USE OF THAT WORD AND OTHERS CAN GET YOUR STATEMENTS REMOVED; BUT I THOUGHT IT ONLY REALLY APPLIED TO THE CONTENT OF THE ACTUAL VIDEO. VERY SAD STATE OF THINGS. MAKES YOU WONDER HOW LONG WE'VE GOT BEFORE THE GOSPEL ITSELF WILL BE OUTLAWED.
Hmm....Proverbs 6:17 is pretty clear about it. Abortion is an abomination for sure - God hates it. It is a form of evil child sacrifice and can serve as a demonic entry point in the woman's life - I've seen it. Abortion can bring intense mental health struggles and self destructive behaviors that follow the woman for years. Psalms 139:13 confirms that God knits us together in the womb. He is the giver of life. It is God who decides when life begins and when it ends.
Most black "believers" attend churhes that teach black liberation theology or the social gospel. They work with community organizations that work with politcal parties (democrats). They teach "blackness" over the lordship of Jesus and the authory of the word. Govenment was instituted by God to punish the evil doer and bless the righteous. Parties may have a platform but so does God. Govenments make laws and christains MUST pay ATTENTION to what's going on in order to make sure righteousness is maintained.
If I May ask why did black churches teach black liberation theology. Could it be because the white church twisted the Bible to them to make blacks better slaves?!
Those who forget history are bound to repeat it. It goes both hate but why only call out the black church. Without the black we will still have slavery and oppression in America and apartheid in South Africa. Justice is the only solution and without justice there can never be unity. You comment shows you dont know much about blacks commitment to Christ. We show our faith by our works.
@@MichaelLee-w9z It would be helpful to look at the statistics on the number of churches that teach black liberation or social gospel. I have heard this assumption without clear proof that these topics are taught in the "majority" of black churches. I often wonder if the statement still is used as a convenient talking point to support the premise that 1. black churches do not teach or believe the Gospel 2. blacks may be able to become Christians but never mainstream church leaders because they appear to be unqualified heretics 3. blacks are inferior to whites and maintain a certain lower spiritual position below whites in the Christian faith as practiced in Western culture. These types of claims were used to create and support church and seminary segregation and some of these ideas informed US government sanctioned segregation for decades.
Psalms 89:14 "Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne; Mercy and truth go before Your face. As Christians, we can not serve the Lord in spirit and truth by isolating these concepts. Yes, we as Christians must first seek the righteousness of Christ, but we must also concern ourselves with justice of Christ - which the Bible also speaks very strongly about. We can't focus on one and then dispense with the other. That's not pure religion. Last, most Black Churches do not teach "Black Liberation or Social Gospel". This is a false conclusion. Most Black Churches, teach the transformative power of Jesus Christ to save, heal, deliver and work the impossible in our lives, including surviving racial oppression.
@MrBigUp most was the wrong word. It should be many. As believers who are NOT of this world. We will expérience oppression in many ways, all over the world. The end goal for us is to share the gospel and address, change, promote those things that lead to the truth as given to us by Jesus. The social conditions these churches work for and preach about usually place race, gender or ethnicity above the word of God.
Hey Fam. Appreciate you tuning in. Please hit the like, share and subscribe button! Blessings!
Your attempt to address the proverbial elephant in the room is commendable but to me it is clear you are still very much one sided in your take. THE CHUCRCH, the WHOLE BODY in America has fallen away from GOD's AGENDA and adopted ITS OWN. This is why it have 'black churches' and 'white churches' the former politically aligning itself with the DNC and the latter with the RNC.
This division that you wish to highlight now is A LITTLE TOO LATE in my view because this division has been APPARENT ever since, it is just that this election in particular has MAGNIFIED it more than any other. This is an opportunity for the church to examine itself to see where it has GONE WRONG in involving itself in politics. Church members should have been encouraged to vote for the candidate who EACH INDIVIDUAL deem to be the best one who will see after the country's ECONOMIC and SOCIAL well being as well as its SECURITY. THAT IS IT.
Instead what you had and had always had, is members being told to vote for the one who suits their RACIAL identity or RELIGIOUS ideology.
You have a platform sir, call out both sides because the fault lies on BOTH SIDES.
I see that my post is hidden. Hmm
@ I do not hide or delete posts unless inappropriate. YT will also if certain words are triggered. I’ll check on my end.
@@churchdropout Ok let me restate my post. I said that your attempt to address the proverbial elephant in the room is commendable but you were still ONE SIDED in your assessment. The truth is, this division in the body of Christ in the US has been there for YEARS and has ALWAYS been evident but I can't recall ANYONE addressing it as much as it has been done now, yourself including. The mere fact that you have 'black churches' and 'whites churches' tells you clearly that something is absolutely WRONG with the way things are in the body of Christ in America.
Every election cycle has seen the 'black churches' voting for a certain party and the 'white churches' voting for the other and the members are encouraged to do so based on the candidate who best represent their RACIAL identity or RELIGIOUS ideology, instead of voting for the candidate who you as an individual think will best see after AMERICA's Economic and Social well being as well as its Security.
This election more than any other and any other thing has MAGNIFIED the differences and division even more and now people like you and others are on here talking about something that has been going for AGES. The simple problem is that the church has lost its way. It has left off GOD's AGENDA and started its OWN AGENDA. As a result, America today is more LAWLESS, UNGODLY and IMMORAL than ever although it has way more churches than ever before.
Both 'sides' are to blame, none more than the other and until people like you call it as it IS and not what you FEEL then it will continue to go this way. At NO TIME must the church involve itself in POLITICS to play any active role other than to VOTE and do so with the consideration being ONLY what I stated above. If not, you will constantly have this divide within the body of Christ which today is soooo glaring and horrifying and which has resulted in there being over 47,000 DIFFERENT 'Christian' denominations in the world, most of which don't ever affiliate or cooperate with the others because apparently they are on the 'right track' and the others are not.
@@aliciamcdonald7105 I like your comment 😎
Thank you for saying this brother! I was one of those people who attempted to assimilate. However there is an attitude of uncomfortability disrespect and dismissal towards black people in the evangelical church. I moved back to the black church because I felt like an outsider in the evangelical church. This election showed clearly how white Christians feel about Black Christians. I dont even consider myself an evangelical at all. Itvseems like they love a white America more than the gospel and non white people.
@@Cilla1509 I get it. 💯
So by an election you can just assume the thoughts and motives of people based on their melanin count??!!
That's sinful thinking. Couldn't someone say the exact opposite?
This mentality isn't biblical. It's partial based on assumptions.
I also tried to assimilate to a multicultural church. I realized that nothing has changed when it comes to race relations.
The church is in sin. Unity was purchased on the cross. Racism is still in the church. We are called to bear one another’s burdens. So true.
Absolutely 💯
My Church isn't in sin, but maybe yours is! Perhaps you should find a real Church.
I have seen false prophets that have declared condemnation upon the many and at the same time claim a blasphemer was sent by God.
This is a good message for Pastor Donnie Swaggart to hear also.
Unity in the church above politics!
I preached on this last Sunday, Galatians 3:26-29 the divisions in the church is sad and appalling
Right on time! 💯
The division in the church is really appalling but we need to admit that it has been so for a LONG TIME. When you have 'black churches' and 'white churches' then you know there is no UNITY there.
Every election cycle sees 'black churches' STEADFASTLY voting for a certain party and 'white churches' STEADFASTLY voting for the other because one party resonates with either your RACIAL/ETHNIC identity or RELIGIOUS ideology. This election just happens to be the one event that HIGHLIGHTS/MAGNIFIES the division more than any other.
This discord within the body of Christ in America and indeed all over the world has resulted in there being 47,000 DIFFERENT 'Christian denominations most of whom don't ever interact or associate with others because apparently they are on the 'right track' and the others are not.
All the while, our enemy has been rejoicing at all the schisms while he operates in this world almost with full impunity resulting in America becoming more LAWLESS, UNGODLY and IMMORAL over the years.
Until the church gets back to following GOD's Agenda and not its own - recruiting 'members' and not making disciples - then the infighting and division will remain.
Glad I found your RUclips. This is on point my brother. 💯
🙏 🙏
Amen brother!!! A divided house cannot stand.
Amen! 🙏
IT has been divided ever since though. When you have 47, 000 Christian denominations, many of which are in disagreement with the others, then it is a house divided against itself. This is the reason why they has been sooooo INEFFECTIVE in the communities they exist in. America, for all its 'Judeo-Christian' background, is a country full of VIOLENCE, UNGODLINESS and IMMORALITY while having the most 'Christian' denominations in the world.
This election highlighted more than any other how far the church has fallen away from what its main OBJECTIVE and ROLE should be, that is to win souls for God's kingdom. It is busy 'recruiting' members that will help full its coffers with tithe and offering and endorsing this politician over the other because that particular politician fits either their RACIAL or RELIGIOUS identity.
The enemy has had CENTURIES of experience with us humans and with the church. He fully knows what he has to do to set it off its true course and agenda and he has done an excellent job in doing just that. This is why he has been able to operate with almost FULL IMPUGNITY in this world.
Thank you so much for addressing the elephant in the room.💯💯🎯🎯
Amen! Grace and peace.
I do agree with what you say, and I agree. I just left my church over teaching, take a position in support of Christian Nationalism. The church was fairly large and very diverse. I was very proud of that fact, but I see what you mean by blacks joining the White churches, but the white churches not changing. I just started listening to you, and realize I have
much to learn! Being a white woman, even though I support social justice, I still have a long way to go.
So many good points made. These conversations aren't being had with both camps. We've tried....but like you said it's really one sided. If we actually tried to see each other like brothers or sisters in Christ and drop all these other things we'd be better off. We all supposedly serve the same God as belivers. These are hard but necessary discussions, but nothing is gonna change unless we grit our teeth and have them.
Amen. I’m with you. 💯
Unfortunately, White Christians do not want to have these conversations. So it becomes the elephant in the room in which you dance around or leave the room altogether.
The church has no business involving itself in politics. We’re commanded to abide by the laws of the land and honor those in positions of power (as long as laws don’t conflict with the commands of God) Romans 13:1-7.
Absolutely. We have become politically motivated and driven.
Amen
Wrong! The Church is supposed to be salt and light in this world, and Romans 13: 1-7 says nothing of Christian non-involvement.
Some people think that Christianity is supposed to be a cloister of monks that are walled up and physically separated from the world.
@@churchdropout and even more are racially motivated than politically motivated.
@ Not at all. We are called to spread the word of God to all. That does not mean we are supposed to involve ourselves in politics. In fact, you will not find a single verse commanding us to involve ourselves in politics. But you will find commands for us to be subject to the authorities over us.
See Romans 13:1-7:
1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake.
6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
Notice how nowhere in these verses does it say we should try to vote into power certain people to spread the gospel, it simply says we should be subject to them. In fact, notice in verse 2 how it says if we resist those in authority resist God Himself.
I for one don’t want to be found trying to vote into power someone God has not chosen to be placed in power.
Trump is God’s test to the church and the country to see how people are going to treat each other, whether is loving or hateful. The Bible says you will know them by their fruits.
Trump is not God's test for anything. The church has got itself involve in something it has no business in and now some are glad and some are sad. WHY? Because it has LOST ITS WAY. Truth is, the American churches be they black or white (just saying that is sad in and of itself) have left off GOD's AGENDA and has taken up THEIR OWN.
There are so many perspectives and prophecies regarding the purpose of Trump being elected. Some of it is legit and some of it is just a bunch of right-wing propaganda... Who truly knows the reason ?... Only the Lord.
So if you voted for Trump, you aren't a Christian???!
Who made you God?
@@lgnlynays7977 lol
This is a great topic! I believe there is a shift happening within the church where conservatives of all nationalities are worshipping together. I attend a multicultural church where it just so happens the head pastor is a man of color, prior to the current pastor there was a Caucasian pastor and the same members are still attending. I pray all Believers will be unified in Christ!
That's wonderful. It is very rare that Non-Black Christians will follow or even listen to Black Christian Leaders. Your church is an anomaly, but an example of what should be taking place.
Perhaps looking at the numbers they describe a division based upon race and racism, and not division among Christians. Not everything that wears the label of Christian, is Christian!
Most black people do not refer to ourselves as evangelicals. I really didn't even know what that term really meant until 10 years ago, even though I heard it.
True. The term no longer means what it meant years ago. With that being said it’s always represented white church culture in my opinion. I just used the terms are expressed to make the greater point. Appreciate the comment!
This is spot on. Even my former Pentecostal Pastor said he did identify with the Evangelical Movement because of its legacy of and apathy towards racial injustice.
@@churchdropoutWhat is "white church culture"?
@@akadwriteryes. The way church is done (liturgy, theology, community dynamics) in most cases that many would see a “church” is white. It’s sin da weird because it’s considered default church culture.
@@churchdropout It's sin to do it a certain way culturally? I think it's a sin of you make cultural issues bigger than they are.
I think it's a sin to lump in whole groups of people based on skin color.
I believe America as a whole is under God's judgment. We have long ignored Him. Persecution will unify true believers.
Im a white Christian for Kamala...... i cant wrap my mind around the church supporting trump 😢
And why was we voting for killing of black babies???
I can't wrap my mind around any believer supporting a woman like Kamala and a party platform that praises evil like baby murder!!??
I get not wanting to vote for Trump, but how could a Christian support the Dem party??
Let me explain scripturally why I did, and you can do the same.
The Democratic party supports abortion.
God and God alone controls conception and He opens and closes a woman's womb. ( Gen. 29:31;30:2, 20, 22;1 Sam. 1:5,6; Ruth 4:13) Please take the time to read them .
Abortion STOPS a process that Almighty God Himself STARTED as a Christian how can you be comfortable supporting that?
The Democratic party supports homosexuality.
The Democratic party has lit up the White House with gay pride colors and has had topless transgenders dancing on the White House lawn. Now you might not think that's a big deal UNTIL you read 2 Peter 2:6 and Jude 7 where it says that Sodom and Gomorrah was an EXAMPLE For those who live that lifestyle afterwards. So ACCORDING to God's word just where do you see the Democratic party is LEADING America? Does that really look like a Christian's best choice for leaders?
God's word says that homosexuals WILL NOT enter the kingdom of God. (1 Cor.6:9)
This is where I really have a problem. If I or any other Christian tries to share the Good News message about God's love and forgiveness and the need to repent to a homosexual that's now considered HATE speech by the Democratic party. How can you support a party that tries to SILENCE God's word? Real Christians are trying to get them into the Kingdom of God and being hated for it.
Your turn.
💯 truth! Thank you brother.
You got it, sis!
Amen!! Great message!!
Appreciate it!
Is called fundamentalism. Is a movement that started in church at the end of the 1900 and beginning of 2000. It was born in a seminary and the movement yielded two volumes called The fundamentalists. And is tied to the secular movement called Conservatusm.
True.
21:53 Wow. I think you’re right.
Thank you, Brother.
Amen!
There are complex issues at hand here. This video scratches the surface and one statistic is very hard to draw so many conclusions from. Glad the can of worms is opened and the heart of this video has great merit. Perhaps a video with two people talking would help?
Heard. Already planning. Very complex.
Looking forward to this one!!! 🔥
The conversations were being had especially in spring of 2020 in a way I e never seen before, but it didn’t really stick with them. I remember having these hard conversations with my white friends because I believed in the proximity theory and it was like the whole time, I wasn’t black, until I talked about racism and then all of a sudden my black skin became apparent. They would get defensive and were not open and I just wanted to understand their perspective on the matter in the same way they felt comfortable talking to their white friends about race, they were not comfortable talking to me about it. Little did I know what they were really saying to each other at the time. So we can have these convos, they will pretend to care, the first time, but if it continues they will get defensive and they are not interested at all. They just aren’t. They have their opinion and having us in their lives, does not change anything unfortunately.
Been there as well.
@@kayday298 Question. When you talked about racism was it from the angle that all white people are somehow to blame for George Floyd or for other social sins??
Because that's what I heard loud and clear from many so called brothers in Christ.
As we see the day drawing near it appears to me that John 15:15 is an actual hermeneutic. Those who love one another most, see what the Father is likely doing the most. Thanks for your unique and fresh take brother. Blessings.
Thank you so much! Blessings!
Great discussion though, thanks!
Appreciate it! Thank you for the comments.
Well i asked the question some years ago to the Lord........the question was how can slavery and the horrors of it persist for sooo long where was the church specifically the white church?
As a local pastor in NYC, my opinion is that - this is a noble effort on practical theology but I disagree with presupposition/initial conclusion on the subject matter. What we, as the body of Christ (from the US perspective), need is NOT unity as the priority in current state of the church age but the genuine definition of the Gospel of Christ; definition first before demonstration. God bless.
Respect. I don’t disagree I think they are both needed. But what’s missing in my opinion is practical implications of gospel. We pontificate on what the gospel means while ignoring what it does. If we look at Jesus we see what gospel in motion looks like. I love theology. But what western Christianity needs is not just deep - we need wide. We have a lot of knowledge yet so little understanding. I’m dropping a video on something Joel Webbon said that demonstrates this perfectly. Someone who can articulate the gospel, at least a reformed view, and yet miss its message. Expressing something that looks radically different than Christ. We are told love God and live your neighbor. We don’t need a robust theology to understand what this means. At time our robust theology is an excuse to ignore what’s practical. Appreciate the comment. Blessings.
@@churchdropout I also respectable disagree on some point as noted but also I respectably agree with your follow-up point. What also may be missing in your practical theology analysis is the extended coverage of asian christian faith in our community. This is a noble effort but collection of biblical obervations may further edify the bride of Christ in our community. As i'm an asian american pastor, I would be happy to share my humble view the Lord wills. God bless you for good work in the Lord.
-pastor Allen Yoo
@@ChristGraceTruth Absolutely brother. I appreciate your perspective and dialogue. Especially as an Asian American Pastor! Peace and Blessings to you and your local fellowship.! We share a great name (Allen) with the same spelling! Amen!
@@churchdropout Haha praise our Lord. I also have my respect for you in the Lord & i trust it is all for His glory-alone. Looking fwd to chat offline. Have a blessing Lord's day tmr & God bless you brothet
Absolutely 💯
The most segregated hour in America has been and continues to be on Sunday mornings. I have noted the some of the same conclusions you addressed in this video, especially about white Christians hardly ever joining a black church. It’s a rare occurrence and all to often African American Pastors are overlooked theologically. I thought for a moment that multicultural church plants would thrive but I’m not totally seeing a complete change. The problem wasn’t totally political to began with but social. It started long before most of us were here and remnants of it still exist and now with the political climate has super charged if. I fear just like Israel we are just gonna have to wonder in the wilderness until the remnant of yesterdays past has gone on.
@@kcrump6764 Absolutely 💯. Definitely overlooked.
You have to look at Hispanic Protestant Church. I grew up in one and they align to White Evangelical one. They are so fundamentalist. They aligned more to White Evangelists. Thats why Latin/Hispanic voted the way they did
Final thought, just look into main worship singers in Hispanic community, they love Trump. Cause they fell into Nationalists movement
@@jonathanchavez8007 I consider Hispanics and other ethnicity who are not black to share the same perspectives as White Evangelicals. The true division is between Black Christians and everyone else.
@ Makes sense. Not trying to argue, but what about the Dominican Republic Christians, or Afro Latinos Churches? In the Spanish Speaking Churches, the best worship groups coming out lately are from DR, Colombia, Venezuela and they are Afro Latinos and so Pro Trump. Why? Did White Christian Nationalist get there first? I agree with you tho but its scary they are like that knowing this Nationalist dont care of they are Chrstians. Just look up Robert Greene. He is from DR but Super Trumper. God Bless tho wished I was raised in a Black Church now
AMEN!!!
The proximity theory, I use to believe in that, that the proximity theory can change a person’s mind or at least open it up if there is a level of intimacy between two contrasting paths or people, but despite having “best friends” within the church, people I thought I was so close with, but looked differently than me, I realized having me in their life and knowing me did not change their perspective on people like me. It didn’t open up their perspective. 2020 was a big eye opener for me personally with my white friends and seeing them look at me with blank eyes with some of the stuff that have been happening the last few years. I saw all the so called diversity as a false mirage. I went to a church the other day first time, I saw so many black people as greeters and directing traffic. As a first time guest, I thought wow, this church must be very diverse. When I went in, only white people in the auditorium. I was like, where did all the diversity go😂😂😂 they were all outside, but the image created outside infers what you will see on the inside and that was not the case. I looked up the board members of the church like the deacons, business manager, only white faces all across. At that point it just felt like “oh they let someone like me in but it’s really not truly open.” But yeah my heart broke when I realized that the proximity theory does not really work with them because it did with me. I was open to seeing who they were, I was open to genuinely getting to know them and in the end people like us are just like an experiment or an experience for them to feel evolved.
Been there for sure. It has to be reciprocal.
"All white governing board" That's a red flag right there.
As a Black Christian, that is one of the things we need to examine before joining a church. After examining the theological teaching, you then have to ask "Do I truly have the potential to grow here spiritually, in ministry, and leadership if the Lord calls me to it ?" The physical representation of the church governing body is indicative of the mindset of the members.
God wants us to be mindful of people who cause divisions and to distance ourselves from such disruptive influences (Rom. 16:17, 2 Tim. 16-17). The Lord loves unity so it is natural that he hates division (Ps. 133:1, John 17:20-21, 2 Tim.
The fact of the matter is capitalism. There is no financial incentive for white evangelicals to cater to black evangelicals. That would be a money loser full stop. Black people are not about to be immersed in evangelical anti blackness. So yeah, it’s about money. You need to check out Lil Bill cause man he hit the nail on the head about the church and why it is what it is.
21:52 i very much aggre. We are to caught up in political ideology.
Absolutely 💯
The church is being influenced by the world instead of the church influencing the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ
💯
@glennii9442 AMEN, AMEN and AMEN!
religion and politics can not mix, in the same way public service and business can not mix
Amen this was good bro. My last two videos I’d say have a similar geartbeat
Amen bro.
21:32 - That is it right there!!!!
Amen bro
History of racism is not far behind us .
Ive been asking this question.
17:43.. I’ve been saying this part is missing from the ab0rtion talk. 👏
Love your content brother. How can I get in touch with you?
Thechurchdropout at g m a i l
However there is no concrete discussions in search of reconciliation and justice repairing the damage that was done is being done.....those numbers are crystal clear there s a problem. It was true the last time he ran.
IT has been this way EVER SINCE. The 'black churches' have always ALIGNED themselves to the DNC and 'white churches' with the RNC. Before the emergence of the MAGA movement, people on both sides chose to IGNORE this difference but now it is has been MAGNIFIED and the disunity WITHIN the body of Christ cannot be hidden anymore.
I think we are past that point. To much damage to mend fences.
We’re matriarchal they’re patriarchal.
It seems there's people more focused on race than on Christ
So they voted for a party that promotes abortion? That is a bigger problem. Do they not read the bible?
No, I believe they voted against the party run by a raging lunatic.
You are commenting on a platform that supports it. Why not delete your channel?
Like the Republican party promotes racism and authoritarianism? Oh okay.
No political party is perfect
@@churchdropout what?
However JESUS said I came that you might have life and life more abundantly......so na that is used as a means of power and control but at the root is racism.
HEY ALLEN.
SENT YOU A LONG COMMENT EARLIER TODAY, BUT NO LONGER SEE IT IN THE CHAT.
Hello! I do not delete comments unless they are inappropriate. I didn’t see anything from you. This is not the first time I’ve been told this.
THANK YOU FOR REPLYING ALLEN.
I REALIZE I MENTIONED THE "UN-ALIVING" WORD.
I HEARD THE USE OF THAT WORD AND OTHERS CAN GET YOUR STATEMENTS REMOVED;
BUT I THOUGHT IT ONLY REALLY APPLIED TO THE CONTENT OF THE ACTUAL VIDEO.
VERY SAD STATE OF THINGS.
MAKES YOU WONDER HOW LONG WE'VE GOT BEFORE THE GOSPEL ITSELF WILL BE OUTLAWED.
@ yep. Certain words we can’t say in videos without video suppression. It’s super crazy.
I disagree with the abortion issue........God says nothing on the matter nor does Jesus in the gospels....not 1 word.....the issue is so nuanced.
Hmm....Proverbs 6:17 is pretty clear about it. Abortion is an abomination for sure - God hates it.
It is a form of evil child sacrifice and can serve as a demonic entry point in the woman's life - I've seen it.
Abortion can bring intense mental health struggles and self destructive behaviors that follow the woman for years.
Psalms 139:13 confirms that God knits us together in the womb. He is the giver of life. It is God who decides when life begins and when it ends.
Black Evangelical huh!
You can see a post above. Just using terminology that was used to make a broader point.
Most black "believers" attend churhes that teach black liberation theology or the social gospel. They work with community organizations that work with politcal parties (democrats). They teach "blackness" over the lordship of Jesus and the authory of the word. Govenment was instituted by God to punish the evil doer and bless the righteous. Parties may have a platform but so does God. Govenments make laws and christains MUST pay ATTENTION to what's going on in order to make sure righteousness is maintained.
If I May ask why did black churches teach black liberation theology. Could it be because the white church twisted the Bible to them to make blacks better slaves?!
Those who forget history are bound to repeat it. It goes both hate but why only call out the black church. Without the black we will still have slavery and oppression in America and apartheid in South Africa. Justice is the only solution and without justice there can never be unity. You comment shows you dont know much about blacks commitment to Christ. We show our faith by our works.
@@MichaelLee-w9z It would be helpful to look at the statistics on the number of churches that teach black liberation or social gospel.
I have heard this assumption without clear proof that these topics are taught in the "majority" of black churches.
I often wonder if the statement still is used as a convenient talking point to support the premise that
1. black churches do not teach or believe the Gospel
2. blacks may be able to become Christians but never mainstream church leaders because they appear to be unqualified heretics
3. blacks are inferior to whites and maintain a certain lower spiritual position below whites in the Christian faith as practiced in Western culture.
These types of claims were used to create and support church and seminary segregation and some of these ideas informed US government sanctioned segregation for decades.
Psalms 89:14 "Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne; Mercy and truth go before Your face.
As Christians, we can not serve the Lord in spirit and truth by isolating these concepts.
Yes, we as Christians must first seek the righteousness of Christ, but we must also concern ourselves with justice of Christ - which the Bible also speaks very strongly about. We can't focus on one and then dispense with the other. That's not pure religion. Last, most Black Churches do not teach "Black Liberation or Social Gospel". This is a false conclusion. Most Black Churches, teach the transformative power of Jesus Christ to save, heal, deliver and work the impossible in our lives, including surviving racial oppression.
@MrBigUp most was the wrong word. It should be many. As believers who are NOT of this world. We will expérience oppression in many ways, all over the world. The end goal for us is to share the gospel and address, change, promote those things that lead to the truth as given to us by Jesus. The social conditions these churches work for and preach about usually place race, gender or ethnicity above the word of God.