I had never heard of it, I saw the video in my subscriptions and said, "oh no" and clicked immediately. Before watching the video, my thoughts jumped to: I bet the US healthcare system has something to do with this, and lack of funds -> lack of seeking care combined with the MAHA movement (and more) making people doubt healthcare providers as a whole, leading to this mess.
I have! A podcast that I love, Behind the Bastards, did an episode on the free-birth society! "How the Internet Spawned a Baby-Killing Cult" with guest Caitlin Durante.
100% agree. I don't have and never will have children but I fully support my tax dollars going towards babies being born safely and without putting the parents in debt. I really wonder how much of this "free birth" crap would go away if people could get all the birth related care for free.
Taxes used for the people who pay them. What a concept. I could see that being a good thing. Probably after the USA pays off their debt. It should not take long, right? RIGHT? Stop giving money to billionaires and corporations and give back to the people who pay them.
Yep, women and many babies too. Giving birth is not safe, and it's been made even less safe by the slow evolutionary changes leading into human babies having such enormous heads compared to the mother's pelvis etc. If ancient humans hadn't been clever enough to start assisting others during child birth we would have almost certainly evolved into a slightly different direction. There are tons of species where the females give birth routinely without any assistance, but they are built very differently to humans. And even then they can occasionally get complications and die. (Look at dogs or cats for example.) I wouldn't wish that fate to any baby, or any woman either, but still there's a part in me that can't avoid thinking this is the most classical example of Darwin Award behaviour... The women who choose to do this regardless of having access to all sorts of qualified assistance are basically trying to remove their genes from the gene pool.
We been having births for a 1000 years in communities, assisted by others that have experience. Assisting labour was a skill passed from woman to woman and now a days we have a boat load of information and experts that have studdied this. Why not use the knowledge and medicine we have? This people are stupid.
even cows sometimes need a hand to keep mother and calf alive. And much of the reason birth is so dangerous in humans is the bipedalism and the huge brain, neither of which cattle have.
Just 150 years ago, around 1 in 3 children wouldn't reach the age of 5. But sure, modern medicine is evil and kills babies and makes them autistic through ultrasound scans and vaccines
And humans have been helping each other give birth for thousands of years. Some of them cared so much that they became midwives, L&D nurses, and OB/Gyns. ❤
@astralb.2647I remember my female relative from over 150 years ago and the graves from her children. It was in Germany and there was a Diphteria outbreak in their village. Almost all graves from 1878-1880 were children from months to 5 years old. My relative had to bury four of her six children. 😢 To hear, that people survived long time ago without vaccines, is so ridiculous. The graves proofed them otherwise
@duskonanyavarld1786 Having at least a midwife isn’t even unnatural. It’s literally something that most social mammals do, with few exceptions, but none I know of.
@laurasilvera3766 nah, this is a thing. I'm conservative and I see that some things are considered socially acceptable for the rich/those who chose it, and unacceptable for those who are forced into it by circumstance. That being said, I'm not sure if there's anything "classy" about the Freebirth Society. Although their criticisms of medicine and midwifery are very valid, their solution is "leave it up to chance," which isn't helping the problem and leading to more maternal and infant deaths.
@queerceramics the fact that I'm a traditional Catholic 😂😂 "conservative" would be the blanket term, as I think there are multiple economic models that could work, capitalism being one, distributism another, but I don't believe in communism or socialism (I'm Polish and my parents have been there and done that). If you're asking for the type of conservative that I am, I'm not sure.
Giving birth alone is a nightmare. Midwives are close to being the oldest jobs in existence, because mothers have always needed help to assist in birth..
@leos7830 oldest jobs would be farmer/hunter/gatherer. I'm sure soldier is also very old job, but I don't think it's that old enough to be mentioned. Definitily some jobs making spears and bows for hunting existed before soldiers.
You know what? I don't think prostitution is the oldest job, I don't think _farming or hunting_ are the oldest jobs. I think _midwives and foragers have the oldest jobs._
My great grandmother was assistant to a frontier midwife. Usually she would help clean up mom and baby after birth but too often she prepared mom and baby for viewing before being buried same day. When things go wrong in childbirth things go south really fast.
@naseem9980 that’s a poor reason. she was a frontier midwife in the 1800s. Obviously medical care for baby and mom has vastly improved for everyone since then
Not always. A friend of mine wanted an unassisted homebirth because of a horrific hospital birth with her first baby. Her husband conviced her to have a midwife. She had amazing second and third births.
@mesquitemagic Also to add, why would you bring up an exception? If your friend has nothing to do with the statement being said, why would you bring her up in the conversation? Stop trying to fit the discussion when you don’t fit at all
@ChronicGoblinQueen exactly. Good midwives have OBGYN and hospital connections. They move their patient via ambulance to the hospital if there is a problem. They also advise their client whether or not they are a candidate for at home birth because of their and the fetus' health.
I first learned about "free birth" when I saw my neighbor's sad, tear-stained face. I asked her what was wrong. She proceeded to tell me that her friend had decided to birth at home with only her husband and a friend there. No one had any medical training. Terrible birth. Mother died. Baby lived thanks to dad finally calling the ambulance. Having worked in a third world country, I was absolutely shocked and stunned to hear that this was "a thing" in America.
Gosh when I saw the title I thought this would be a take on free medical care ,I am beyond shocked as to why you wouldn't want any kind of medical intervention, even emergency measures at least .
@atropabelladonnaThis particular post said nothing about the baby having any issues after birth. The baby naturally would need to be rushed to a hospital to make sure it was healthy and give it the care that a newborn needs when they don’t have their mother.
Wild mothering? Even my dogs, my cat, and one of my mares either hunted me down to birth with me watching out for them, or waited desperately until I was there before delivery.
same just recently we had a litter of kittens momma wanted my mom but she was busy so momma cat trusted me and the thing is I have done this so many times I've lost count
When I was a kid, there was a street stray (no one claimed she was theirs, but she basically lived only on our street) that would choose to give birth on our back porch at least once a year. We were the family on the block who had cats but no dogs, so my mom used to say we were her safe house. I didn't think about that behavior of hers until right now.
our cat found my mom and waited for her to sit down ... jumped on her and immediately started giving birth right on her lap. my mom had to help her with the bags and clean up for the first two. until Rena got the hang of it.
I kind of wish she hadn’t. It means pretty much everyone in the comments is like “wow stupid rich people cosplaying poverty, natural selection lmfao” when it’s just your typical internet misinformation pipeline, like anti-vaxx. They take the thing you want most dearly (a safe, positive birth experience) and say "You will only get that with us. Trust us. We can give you what you want." The people running this scam are rich, sure, and some of the people choosing it might be privileged, but people of all walks of life fall for this propoganda, especially traumatized people and anxious new moms with no support system. Poorer people are less likely to trust doctors. I pity the people who are getting caught up in this and may lose their lives and babies as a result. It’s a shame that Mama Doctor Jones vaguely referencing privilege in a fairly reasonable way means that 90% of comments think the main reason people do this is “trying to be better than you” when in reality it’s a fear of hospitals that has been caused by the failure of the medical system to treat pregnant patients with respect.
@1@1Le@1Letter23Numbers.ee that people who have the option are privileged. But people who are cosplaying poverty for fun don't usually drink lead water for the authentic experience. These people are doing something dangerous that harms them. Saying something like "these dumb poverty tourists are so privileged they think consequences will never come to them" is completely missing the point. The free birth movement won't be stopped by us thinking we're better than them and roasting them for being stupid and privileged, it will be stopped by an increased trust in science, breaking up these cults, and a medical system where pregnant patients don't get mistreated. On a similar note, I would hope that most of the people in this comments section are willing to acknowledge that THEY are privileged for having enough sex ed knowledge to recognize this as a grift. But I don't think they will, because they'd rather make fun of women who are at serious risk of death and losing their babies. It’s like making fun of someone on an extreme and dangerous diet by saying, "don't they know they're privileged to have access to food?" (Like, yes, but I feel like only saying that doesn’t capture the fullness of a complex and painful situation.)
As a German, it baffles me that midwife is not a protected and regulated profession in the US. Here it is highly regulated and there are very high standards for midwives.
In the US, anyone can call themselves a "midwife" or "certified midwife" (because bogus organizations can give a stamp of approval), but a Certified Nurse-Midwife (CNM) is an advanced practice registered nurse. A CNM is extremely legit and works under an OBGYN. Most places that have board-certified OBGYNs also have CNMs. A CNM also has to have at least a master's degree. It's crazy that we don't just say that anyone who isn't an accredited CNM with state licensure can't call themselves a midwife. We already have a system to have credible midwives, we just need to make it illegal for people who aren't credible to also call themselves midwives.
@kamcorder3585 yes, this. I think in the US there are a lot of groups that will create a title that is similar to accredited ones to take advantage of the fact that most people will not be able to tell the difference. Another example is nutritionist (zero requirements) v. Dietitian (all the requirements and regulations).
Yes, it's a regulated title in the UK too: "Midwifery is a protected function in the UK, meaning it's a criminal offence for any person other than a registered midwife, or a registered medical practitioner, to attend on a woman in childbirth (except in emergencies or when in training as a student midwife or medical student). It's also a criminal offence for someone to falsely represent themselves as being on our register and use the protected title of ‘Midwife’, or falsely represent themselves as possessing midwifery qualifications." (From the Regulated Professions Service website)
@WiredPigeon In Western culture, MDs (primarily, when not exclusively mxle) have always mobilized political power against midwives (primarily, if not exclusively wmn) d/t financial incentive.
Like yeahhhh on the most technical level, women indeed have the choice to die in childbirth in a field somewhere? But is that a feminist act??? Bizarre.
That's called choice feminism. It's the idea that any decision made by a woman is inherently feminist and therefore, criticism of anything a woman does is anti-feminist at best and misogynistic at worst. It's absolute rubbish.
They are in the same misguided train of thought as a friend of mine who was spouting that anything natural was harmless, She was appalled when i told her i could poison her most naturally with at least 5 or 6 plants in my garden...
Let me go make you a salad! The hemlock, bittersweet nightshade, bloodroot, and daffodils are doing wonderfully this year! (I only lack the hemlock in my own garden… as far as I know.)
The ‘natural is always better’ crowd conveniently forgets that half the things that kill people on a regular basis are perfectly natural. Disease is natural. Suffering is natural. Death is natural. But these things are not better because they are natural, and the things that prevent them are not worse because they are unnatural.
So I used to work for Doctors Without Borders, which runs the world's busiest maternity hospital in Afghanistan. There were pregnant and sometimes even labouring women (and often girls) who were brought to the hospital by their families over an extremely dangerously journey, in order to be treated by professions in a proper medical setting. I'm talking, rural, tribal Afghanistan where no-one in the entire family has ever been literate. And they had the common sense to seek actual medical help. But women in 1st world countries deny giving themselves and their babies the best chance in life because of a grift.
It's similar to what's happening with vaccines isn't it? Places that are ravaged by disease would jump at the opportunity to get vaccinated, whereas measles is on the rise in the USA thanks to the anti-vax movement.
@pancakedroid yeah that's it. It's the same thing with reading and writing and school too. Now people want to do "unschooling" which is like letting them learn what they want to learn which is STUPID and imo child abuse! I was homeschooled and I did very well in top in my class at engineering school in an engineering college so homeschooling can work but "unschooling " is nothing like that. People are treating schools as places that are going to indoctrinate their kids into a cult (quality of school has gone down lol but this is ridiculous) so they decide to keep them home and just "let them decide what they want to learn". Meanwhile, throughout history and all over the world people learning to read and write and do math is a PRIVILEGE! And these parents are just keeping their kids from that privilege because it's a trend! Makes me so mad.
Some governments have also forgotten how many ways parents and children can die after childbirth. too. Having an anti-vccination grifter in the Department of Health is a strong warning sign.
Complete child abuse 😭 I hope that kid that was 4 weeks premature and struggled to breathe survived and now lives with people who take better care of her
i hate the saying "child birth is not a medical event" because it can be REALLY FAST. faster than most people can call 911. my first childbirth was very normal until the afterbirth came out. i started bleeding out very fast. my midwife(who was also my ob) was on top of it so fast. because she was still right there helping me. i would have died if that had happened at home. i literally only bled for less than a minute and i still needed two units of blood.
Same here. Gave birth 6 weeks ago, and i had no idea that I was having a post partum hemmorage until it was over and under control by both my obgyn and midwife 3 minutes later.
You would not have died at home if you had a trained midwife. I was bleeding heavy after a home birth (with a trained midwife) she gave me a shot of pitocin and we went to the hospital. All was fine. We were prepared to leave if needed and my midwife was on top of everything. Certainly in this case free birth would equal death
Same. My mom would have died birthing me if she had not already been in a hospital. She started bleeding out right after I came out. My brother would have also gotten asfixiated had she not been in the hospital with a very trained doctor, because he was able to notice that my brother was tangled in the umbilical cord and thus was not breathing. And then to hear that my SIL wanted a home birth with only a Douala was... really something.
8:11 when they eventually take this baby to a doctor and they discover it has brain damage from lack of oxygen, the doctor will be blamed for “ruining my perfect natural born child”
@awkwardautisticit is negligence because the infant is in respiratory distress and they are not seeking professional intervention, nor are they qualified/educated/equipped to perform life saving measures on a newborn.
We're at a point where people are so far removed from consequences of not having medical care that they think it's unnecessary. Same as with vaccines, pasteurising milk... It's easy to romanticise 'the past' when you live a life full of modern comforts and protections.
It also makes me think it’s kinda self centered? If I am so concerned for my baby I would at least have a midwife. At this point it’s apparently about the mom’s vibes… just going off of, “I am so natural and free” vibes, so she feels good about it, and not worried about what’s best for baby which would include a back up team of support and the availability of a nicu… 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
I had my second child in 2025. I felt like I was going to die after a complication. I got epidural and took the pain away (I got stuck pushing with no medicine for 6hrs cos shoulder was stuck) then they didn’t wanna csection me so after the epidural I was more willing to let them tug on me … it hurt and I’m just glad I survived. This comment EXACTLY
@meeperton2209 Yup. Extremely selfish and self centered. I've been watching this group for years. Whenever one of their members has a baby that dies because of their idiocy, they tend to announce that said baby was "born sleeping". No. Your baby was born dead because you labored for days on end after your water broke and the baby was breech the entire time. The poor baby died stewing in it's own sh*t whilst you were convincing yourself that this is all NATURAL and that MY BODY KNOWS HOW TO DO THIS. They talk about how death is a natural outcome to birth quite often too. Funny how death is not considered a natural outcome in the hospital...
So let me get this straight: They have Free Birth courses and forums and groups where you can get (*checks notes*) guidance on how to avoid injury and death for both mother and baby? Wow, if only we had this knowledge outside of the Free Birth Society as well! I mean, maybe if we had a way to systematically collect this injury/death-avoidance knowledge, train people in it, and maybe those people could even be there for the births in case this knowledge is needed! What a radical idea.
People already do train in this injury avoidance knowledge. It's called a medical degree. I fully support people choosing how they give birth but these people are risking people's lives (whether they're the mother person or the baby person) with the bad advice they give. In rare cases, you don't need medical intervention but giving birth is a major thing and has for millenia been done with experienced supervision.
I just... even midwives have been common for such a long time! Even into antiquity, you had women in the community who had previously assisted in births and passed down generational knowledge to make the process as safe as possible. So I mean, to do it completely alone just for ideology, and with the abundant freedom to choose otherwise?? That's insane. Patently insane.
Yes, exactly! Even today in parts of the world where medical care is not accessible, women don’t give birth totally solo. Someone helps out, often someone who has assisted with births before and has learned some things.
Came here to say this! Midwife literally means "with woman" even if they didn't have medicine, c sections, NICU, etc. they still had people there who had the best knowledge about childbirth available! The idea that people have just gone out in the woods by themselves to give birth until hospitals is so nuts
I wanted to add the same kind of comment. Midwives have been around for as long as humanity exists, and for a reason. We even have observed some kind of "midwifery" with monkeys! (An older female monkey helping a young one give birth). And all those midwives were doing their best to save mother and baby, with their own knowledge. And by the way, midwives in ancient times knew a lot of things (well, the best midwives, of course, there were bad ones too) and could take care of some complications (not all of them, but most of them did more good than bad).
The thing that is WILD to me is that yeah, maybe women have been giving birth for years. But MOST of the time, even in rural countrysides or before today’s medical world, they *still had another (usually) woman attend*!! There would be someone in the community who helped with the births! Sisters, mothers, relatives! You did not do it ALONE!! It makes me wanna tear my hair out.
Think about it this way: they are manipulating this women to get their money. It has no logic behind it, it's just a tactic to use people who are scared of the system.
My grandmother had 4 births and 3 surviving children. Her best friend only learned she was going to have twins, when her doctor told her she was going to have to start pushing again, because this was before ultrasound imgaging. (invented for mainstream use in 1963, according to wikipedia) There are so many non-invasive ways, checking up with a doctor regularly can help identify risk during a pregnancy, or just simply give you more info. Like checking on the mothers blood pressure or tell you if everything looks fine on the ultrasound. It's so dangerus (but it makes sense in a very backwards way), that any conspiracy or "alternative way" of doing something always has to completly disavow all science and established systems, otherwise it would be easily debunked by the existing evidence and scientific consensus.
my maternal grandmother had 11 pregnancies and 8 surviving children...with the assistance of a midwife. My other grandmother had 12 pregnancies and 12 surviving children, she was the exception, not the rule.
Ding ding ding!!! Groups like this work on projection. Think about the people who claim flouride somehow deposits calcium on the peneal gland. Or antivaxx groups. Anti 5G groups. Etc. They tell you to be afraid of everything except them.
I recently saw one of them say that OBs insist on a c-section when baby is sunny side up. I had a baby that they suspected to be sunny side up for a moment, due to the contraction and fetal heart rate pattern. They had me do certain positions to encourage him to turn, everything was fine. Not one time, not even as a passing comment, was a c-section even mentioned. But this person was convinced, because the crunchy crunchy people had told her so.
Exactly, I think it’s so sad because people who do have bad experiences with medical systems/providers turn around and then fall prey to the exact same exploitation in the anti-medicine communities/companies. It’s hard sometimes for me to understand how they don’t see the hypocrisy and why they put trust in people who don’t have their best interest at heart.
I was a patient of an OBGYN who was actually a sexual predator who is currently in jail, and his license was finally revoked after 80+ women came forward. I'm not rich, but I can see why it's appealing to give birth alone. Even with my very real medical trauma, I can see that their logic is ridiculous.
i know it can be women too, but this is exactly why i side eye male doctors who work in female medical fields. i trust none of them, idc if they're the best OBGYN/gynecologist in the world, them simply choosing that profession immediately sets off red flags for me. there's just too many cases.
@murmirr how many cases have you actually seen? 5? 10? Now compare that to the probably millions of male OGBYN/gynecologists on the entire planet who aren't sexual predators. You are judging a massive amount of people on the actions of a small minority of evil people And by your logic it must be a redflag for female nurses to want to work with baby's. You know because of all the cases of female nurses murdering baby's.
"shallow breathing and gurgling wouldn't personally concern me" has got to be one of the worst pieces of advice i have ever seen given. anyone who understands basic triage knows that that is a BAD SIGN.
If a random dog I'd never seen before was doing that, I'd rush to the emergency vet running every red light (if safe to do so) on the way. But they wouldn't do that for their child!
It’s probably just as likely for the mother to die Deaths during pregnancy used to be extremely common centuries ago. And that was probably with a midwife, or a neighbor who had already delivered. Alone 😳
I hoped to have a natural birth, in the hospital, with no drugs. What ended up happening was that I had to get induced when my due-date passed, and then I had to have an emergency c-section when my baby's heart rate started dropping. I now have a healthy son and no regrets. God bless doctors!
Unfortunately getting induced makes you much more likely to require a C section. You likely could have had your natural birth if you just waited to go into natural labor. It's normal to go past due dates. Unless there is a major issue going past your due date is completely fine.
@g5f-i8xyes, I am aware of that, and I probably could have waited a bit longer. But I was 41 at the time, making it riskier to carry past my due date, and my doctor's advice was to induce. Again, it comes down to: things probably would have gone just fine if I had waited; but I chose to follow my doctor's advice because statistically it is safer to do that. I don't know what would have happened if I had waited; but I do know that my baby was delivered safely.
my older sister just recently had her second kid on December seventh my niece was supposed to be born in November but she was being stubborn in not wanting to come out of the oven but eventually she came out with out them inducing my older sister infact if she didn't come out on the December seventh they were planning on inducing my sister on the tenth of December but all things came out good she's a healthy little baby this is how you should do things when it comes down to labor in a hospital setting or with a really good certified midwife most midwifes if something goes wrong they take you to a hospital or talk you into one I now have two nieces and a nephew from another sister
Same. I wanted a natural drug free birth in the birthing centre of the hospital. I was in labour 36 hours after my water broke had gas, pethidine an epidural, and a c- section when my son went into distress. It took my son 5 minutes to start breathing. He was in a humidicrib with oxygen for days and me and my son and I were on IV antibiotics. Although mistakes were made by doctors (delayed c-section), the midwives that advocated for my epidural and emergency c-section saved the lives of me and my son. Without the medical team performing a c-section both me and my son would not be here. Women and babies have been dying in childbirth or shortly after for thousands of years. That is why women gave been helping each other give birth and out of that knowledge we developed the PROFESSION of midwifery. Which in most countries is a highly skilled and highly regulated profession.
Same here. 4 days unprogressing labour then there was meconium in my amniotic fluid when my waters broke and my son's heart rate was dropping badly every contraction and not recovering. I was offered to let labour progress and get further induced at 4cm dilated but I said absolutely not I will have the c section. I would have never forgiven myself if I'd allowed my baby to die from my poor decision
My husband lost his first wife due to complications in childbirth. Did he trust the medical profession after this? Absolutely not. Did he insist that I have full access to medical care during *my* pregnancy and delivery. Abso-freaking-lutely. Because, despite the trauma of losing his first love, he wanted to make both me and our son were kept as safe as humanly possible. Which was for the best, because when I went into shock after delivery, the staff immediately recognised this and dealt with it.
My SIL was so mesmerized when she saw a video of a pregnant lady walking into a forest pond, it cuts, and then she walks out holding a baby, all i saw was infections happening in 3, 2, 1 😅
Sounds like video editing to make you think she gave birth where she didn’t. Just walk a bit into the water, go back inside, then when labor happens and you have a regular birth in a dry house or hospital, just hold the baby walking out of it… cut and paste the two shots together and voila.
If a newborn needs mouth-to-mouth for an hour after birth, how do you not feel like calling an ambulance? Isn't this the moment to panic and fear for your baby, rather than the moment to text random group chats?
Those parents don't trust the medical system. Their ideal birth is one with no other people involved. They are messaging someone who is seen as an expert.
@SenshiSunPower but baby is obviously not doing well. Like, are we just pretending like shallow breaths after _an hour_ of mouth-to-mouth is normal??? Where has she ever heard (and then believed!) that such a thing is normal at all?? What's going through her brain during that hour that she can see her baby isn't breathing, she & her partner don't know what to do and the situation doesn't appear to be improving??? What is happening in people's brains when their distrust of the medical establishment comes up against the scary reality of medical emergencies??
I made the mistake to pause and read at 6:11 and I feel like my lungs are gutted out. It is a horrific thing to see and read. I can't believe these people exist.
@thecavalieryouthIt is horrific - I'm completely with you - and have found myself feeling quite infuriated at some of the women freebirthing (not Saldaya and Norris-Clark, 'infuriated' would not be the word I'd use for them). And MDJ kind of nailed my feeling. It's so...privileged. Even those who had distrust in the medical system I'd think, arguably uncharitably, "Suck it up! You and your baby are more important than your feelings right now." But....I've realised that.FBS essentially functions as a cult. Cutting off its members from traditional society (always traditional medical care, sometimez family too), lovebombing them, and selling hocum about what the female body is "born to do". So what do you do when you have the emergency? You think, "If I can't do this, I'm weak - they'll make me leave, I've seen it before (deleted comments). And I'm not weak! I want to prove myself!" Or you engage in the sunk cost fallacy ("I can't ask for medical help now. I've come so far!") Not saying this exculpates the women who sought out FBS, or indeed the people who work there, but understanding them as brainwashed, I think, gives you some idea of where they are coming from.
@SenshiSunPower they don't trust it, fine, but trusting someone who says it's all good while your baby can't breathe? How about trusting your own instincts? Anyone in their right mind and normal emotional state will keep being stressed about their baby and seek help from other sources. I can only conclude that women who fall under the spell of this kind of organizations are simply not doing well mentally. It's tragic how they fall through the cracks of society.
There was a reddit post a while back of a pregnant woman asking for help because her husband and mother in law were going to force her to free birth. People told her to call the police for imprisonment
Yeah, I've heard multiple stories like that. Read one in the RUclips comments where a lady was forced. She didn't have enough support to get out of the Deep South, where she said she was living, away from her family and friends. I was very disturbed reading that.
No one should have the "right" to tell their wife/daughter/daughter in law HOW to give birth or WHO gets to be in the room. If my husband did this to me (& we've been together 32 years, since I was 14) I would be GONE. It's sad that anyone is even in this situation that they feel they can't speak up or leave or call for help. So so sad.
I guess I was the opposite. The large hospital with a pediatric hospital connected was not the nicest or prettiest delivery place but I chose it because if anything went wrong I would have a team of pediatricians in my room in minutes instead of the nice hospitals that had to call for the pediatric hospital to send a team which would take about 30 minutes. And did have problems in the last few minutes of labor. Had pediatricians in the room at birth.
Midwifery is the oldest profession, so I don't really buy the notion that women have been "giving birth alone" for thousands of years. We are social animals who have lived in family groups and wise women have always assisted when possible.
If you actually read The Guardian article that first broke this story you will find that it is actually the opposite. Many women who chose so called free birth had previously suffered traumatic births in hospital. It's not a black and white issue. The free birth society founders are dangerous and harming woman and babies but many women also suffer needless obstetric violence in hospitals in the US and other economically developed countries. Try having some compassion for vulnerable women and their babies who are the victims of disinformation.
@jasminef2027 soz it's kind of difficult when women have been forced to do this because of poverty or lack of autonomy, are now disgraced in their memory because of this ridiculous movement. i can bring up compassion but i'm also openly judging because it's yet another stupid "trend" manipulating women and telling them how to birth or do anything with our bodies. the whole thing feels like another "womanhood is suffering" - situation. it isn't
@jasminef2027 Trauma is extremely hard to deal with, but it's not a reason nor an excuse for making such irresponsible decisions that you can kill or severely disable your baby and/or yourself. The mothers making these choices are fully responsible for what happens to their babies. If your baby struggles to breathe and you won't call an ambulance, you're actively contributing to his passing
6:20 "it took an hour of mouth to mouth to get her to start breathing" ... and they sought advice... two hours later... from a non-medical professional. Okay ... speechless
Would their brain even be viable at that point? I forget how long exactly, but I know it takes much less than an hour of zero oxygen to the brain to turn you into a vegetable. Crazy. These people are fucking delusional
My cat literally bit my hand and dragged me to my own bed so she could birth her litter with me there. Wanting support is also instinctual, like NOT wanting it is freaking weird.
A person I knew from high school decided to this because she didn’t “trust” medical professionals. She had extreme labor complications and her baby ended up in the NICU for months. She begged people for donations to help pay for all the medical bills and it made me so mad because she admitted she was in labor for over 56 hours and refused medical care when a family called 911. She put her baby in danger then wanted other people to pay for her idiocy. Also had some “free birth” moron tell me I didn’t need to have a c-section because my body “knew what to do”. Really cause my daughter and I almost died before my emergency c-section!!!
I had a c-section after a failed induction, and even though both baby and I were fine the whole time in the end I still didn't want to risk complications by ignoring what my OBs were advising. Zero complications, I was healed in a matter of weeks, and 6 months later my daughter is perfectly happy and healthy. Even if the surgery wasn't completely necessary I wouldn't change a thing and risk my daughter's well being. I question whether these privileged women who are so staunchly against medical help don't have some mental disorder. At least have a grandma present!
@Evija3000 facts!!! Also think that is the flawed logic behind not needing to vaccinate against things like measles and polio. We collectively forgotten how deadly those viruses truly are!
Half of all humans who have ever lived died as an infant. Half. "We don't need doctors/vaccines/medical care/etc bc humans have been doing it for thousands of years" Yeah, and for thousands of years people have been giving birth to 14 kids because half of them will die after being born and another chunk won't survive to adulthood. That's assuming they would live through that many births. Also not guaranteed. We could continue to let people die or we could utilize science and medicine to save lives. It's not perfect, certainly. But it's the best we have.
I am a Special Education Teacher, I have worked with students with extreme special needs. I have had a couple of students who have had unassisted birth and their conditions were a result of what happened during an unassisted births.
I have a son who suffered oxygen deprivation during a home birth. The “midwife” was untrained. I had no choice in the matter. I’m no longer in the “church” that advocated this. But I so regret what happened 40+ years later because my son has always had struggles. He is doing well, but I always will wonder how he would be if I’d had proper care.
I knew a couple who did free birth in the early 2000s because they didn't trust hospitals. After 30 hours of labour, they called a midwife for advice who called an ambulance against their wishes, saving the mom's life and the baby's. They were still pissed and threatened to sue 🙄
My mum’s best friend from med school (Friend is now 78 years old) , went to Laos 48 years ago to set up a hospital, providing medical/obstetric care to rural communities. They had pregnant women riding on bicycles, truck beds or sometimes walk for days to reach the hospital. The way that a society, where perinatal death has largely become a thing of the past, opts to engage in dangerous behavior for wanting to be edgy and having a warped romanization of “living natural” hurts my brain. Unbelievable levels of stupid
It's like all the people saying measles isn't a big deal. Only because we have reaped the benefits of the vaccine- my grandmother's generation were so desperate for it for their children as they knew how bad it could be!
I have kind of a theory that it specifically attracts privileged/ upper class women because they’ve never actually had to worry about medical complications before. Their lifestyles lead to them being so removed from the concept of their bodies being fallible that the idea of something “going wrong” doesn’t even cross their minds. They think if they’re generally healthy and have a positive attitude the birth will be fine. They’ve never existed in a way that meant medical care was bared from them, so they never had to think about the consequences of not having access to it. its like gum disease; if you’ve brushed your teeth every day since you were a kid, you probably dont think about the consequences of what could happen if you stopped doing that and then couldn’t see a dentist. They just take for granted that they’ll be fine.
It’s really awful, same as seeing parents walk for days to get their kids vaccinated and checked by a doctor in rural areas. The mix of privilege and ignorance is staggering.
I had a free birth! Was it a wonderful, peaceful, natural experience? Absolutely not. Unfortunately the hospital told me to go home the same morning because it wasn’t time. Well apparently it was because my son was born just a few hours later on my living room floor! I almost did it alone too, my husband had gone to the airport to pick up my sister and ran in the door to deliver his son who came out in two pushes! I was totally petrified that something would happen to my baby boy…or me! Thank God he started breathing and and then crying after he was born, and thank God I didn’t hemorrhage. The ambulance arrived after about 15 minutes and took me to the hospital. I now have a happy, smiley 5 month old and a birth story to remember. But it was one of the most traumatic experiences of my life. I can’t believe people choose to do it willingly!
@decomeoutThank you! Me too! It was very traumatic to go through, but now it does make for an interesting birth story. Lots of people tell me I’m brave for doing it, but the reality is I had no choice! I didn’t feel brave in the moment, just scared!
I also had a free birth and it was 1000× better that when I had a baby in hospital 20 years earlier. I took some castor oil and baby came right out. No cutting IV or medication. I bound right up and the recovery was way easier.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I hate when nurses would rather shrug off symptoms than *really*, *seriously* think of the consequences of the “what if”
@eve0nline03 right???? “My kid has grown ill, he’s struggling to keep food and water down for days!!! We’re going to give him this tea I made, a warm towel filled with rosemary, and keep him close to us so the illness goes away”. THATS NOT HOW THAT WORKS LIBBY AND TOBY
It’s wild how so many people are *romanticizing such dystopias.* Just like doc said, *many mothers don’t have a choice* but to do what the father says and what society tells her to do. It’s sick and twisted how these people are even gaining a following, it has to be some *mass religious psychosis* that led these individuals to believe turning to the literal jungle is the best way to have a child. *Mothers have died from infections after birth, no natural remedy saved them. Many babies have died after from a paletera of things, which is why so many people back then had like 10-20 children because the mortality was deathly high*
8:39 and this is also dangerous for the mom. She can have infection from the baby having the bowl movement before birth I know it happened to my baby. They kept her in the hospital for a week and they kept me on antibiotics for a week just to be safe. fortunately, neither one of us got an infection. I had to leave my baby in NICU.
We had a family “friend” who did this and lost her baby… she went on to do it a second time a couple years later with the same outcome. It’s truly a cult and very sad.
Wow. It's unfortunate that I can think of several things people do that could be considered "Poverty Tourism." They all involve children suffering. Omg.
I feel like all the people saying it’s poverty tourism miss the point. People who do "poverty tourism" don't legitimately risk their lives for fun. This situation mostly from a crippling fear of hospitals and a misinformation pipeline very similar to anti-vaxx. The FBS, like all good cults, preys on people during the most vulnerable points in their lives. 1 in 5 women experience mistreatment during pregnancy and delivery care, higher if you’re Black. Nightmare hospital birth stories are a dime a dozen-lack of informed consent, procedures you don't understand being shoved at you, burnt out staff, buzzing overhead lights that won't turn off and you can't sleep; these easily drown out the good stories. Many people, due to medical trauma or hearing other people’s stories or just woo-woo beliefs, don’t believe they can have a good hospital birth experience. They may fear a good birth experience isn't possible at all. The FBS swoops in and says-it's okay! If you just do Exactly what we tell you, you will get everything you want! I strongly critique anyone profiting from FBS or spreading the grift but I pity the women who are actually trying to do this. They might lose their lives or their babies because of it. As someone who did a lot of research into “free birth” and what causes women to pursue it, the utter lack of sympathy in the comment section because Mama Doctor Jones vaguely implied some of them might be upper class is kind of destroying my faith in humanity.
@Magnoliab199 I bet the rich women have no fear of botox treatments or any cosmetic nips and tucks - especially after that pesky pregnancy. FEAR???? BULLSHIT
This is horrifying to me as a healthy 25y/o who had a completely normal healthy pregnancy in 2024 but then had an unexplainable total placental abruption and was rushed to surgery for a c-section. I was told post surgery that had we been in theatre 2-5 minutes later we both would have died. My son needed 2 weeks in NICU and I am SO GRATEFUL for that as he is now fine. Thank you NZ medical system.
EXACTLY! One of my friends almost died from a bleed in her uterus that ended up requiring emergency surgery. She had a completely healthy pregnancy and even normal birth. But something along the way caused the tear in her uterus and they ultimately had to do a hysterectomy because they couldn't get the bleed to stop. It was insane and I felt so bad for her but I was glad she was in a great hospital that was able to save her
I nearly died delivering my second due to hemorrhage. Medical personnel and modern medicine means my daughter has had her mother her whole life (so far) and also has a little sister she loves.
my wife planned to have a home birth with the midwife, her mom was going to watch our daughter downstairs, i was going to help (i delivered our first born in the hospital so i was ready to be heavily involved again) then her water broke and there was meconium and that ended our home birth journey right there. Fast forward 9 hours and my son had shoulder dystocia + he weighed 11 lbs 10 oz, not to be indelicate but had we pursued this "free birth" nonsense i would be a widowed father of one. modern medical science is the building on thousands of years of practices for what HAS worked and we have discarded practices that did not work - free birth being one of them.
@droy426 even before we had formal healthcare women didn't give birth *alone* most of the time! They had family and/or women from their communities with them... this practice is based in such a wild lack of knowledge of what makes humans successful as a species-- COOPERATION! I mean for crying out loud, at least have someone who can call for emergency help there...
This angers me. My poor grandma who lives in chile country side had my father all alone in the kitchen because my grandpa went to find a midwife too late. She always remembers it as traumatic, she felt neglected, she wanted someone there with her, she cut the cord herself with a kitchen knife. She was lucky that things went well. I can't believe that this people do this voluntarily! Risking their lives and others with negligent advice.
Jesus... I can imagine the fear she felt. Glad things went ok for them, and I hope the midwife at least was able to take care of your grandma afterwards (as in, checking if she and your dad were ok) [Unrelated note: hi fellow Chilean]
Yes, women have been giving birth outside of hospitals for thousands of years, but in the majority of cases they were attended by midwives or at least other women with experience giving birth and assisting others doing do. Honestly, up until the last 75 years, maternal death and infant death were quite common. If you want a home birth, get prenatal care and work with a licensed nurse-midwife with the awareness that if something goes wrong you go to the hospital for help ASAP-not message someone who has never met you for medical advice they aren't qualified to give.
And the ones that didn't have help either got an infection or died. Or they're babies got infections and died. There's a reason why child mortal used to be so high
Yep. When looking at historical records of my ancestors and I see that a woman died shortly after giving birth I don’t need a death certificate to know what happened. A common occurrence in my family prior to 1900.
The people who run this group should be prosecuted. When a baby dies after birth because the parents deliberately refused to provide adequate healthcare for their child, leading to disability or even death, that is plain old child ab*se. This group is encouraging the most extreme kind of child ab*se and child endangerment, namely the type in which the child actually dies, nearly dies, or sustains permanent injuries. There has to be a subsection of some law about compelling another to commit a crime. They will only stop if people end up in prison.
AN HOUR OF MOUTH TO MOUTH TO GET HER BREATHING?!?!?!? That poor child has brain damage. I hope she survived! That’s so disturbing. They should have been telling them to call 911.
Red Flag #1: "Pay us $500 to join our club!" I also feel like there's a line between "freedom of choice" and straight up child abuse here. I'm disgusted.
"People have been having babies for thousands of years, why would you need anybody to assist you in that process?" Yeah, because everybody knows that humans were solitary hunters who never interacted with other humans except to mate and raise offspring until the industrial revolution. Hunter-gatherer tribes were invented in the 1800's. Before that, nobody ever interacted with other women or elders to share information or help each other survive in any way until the invention of modern medicine.
Yes, and oftentimes to be extra sure she's alone in the process, when it was a woman's time to give birth, she found a dark, solitary cave in the mountains for it.
As someone whose entry into this world was nearly my exit, and who studies social history- things like medical aid that people have historically had access to- the idea of ANYONE opting OUT of medical care for pregnancy or childbirth is BONECHILLING. Cold straight to my heart. Why would you do this? The infant and birthing parent mortality rate that historically goes with NO medical care is hideous. It was one of the greatest horrors of the historic world and still is in any place you don't have someone with SOME training there to assist! The number one cause of death for people who could give birth has been... giving birth. Your odds were often as bad as fifty fifty to survive the experience. Or worse. I have no words.
This blows my mind. I had a perfectly normal and healthy pregnancy and no one knew my pelvis was shaped wrong. I never would have been able to deliver without help and surgery and had no way of knowing that until my labor was not progressing correctly. I can't imagine being willing to put my babies at risk for free birthing.
Yes, exactly. All these people love to make policies and rules about how to make motherhood more dangerous for the women and children while calling it feminism! Because obviously the most empowering thing to do is kill your children by dying for no reason other than feeling like bragging that you had no help! Every action against helping mothers and women be safe is always a step towards endangering children. All of the people that support abortion bans support free gun access and consider school shootings a necessary evil. All people that proclaim that they're "pro-life" will kill their children to make more children and solidify policies that will only hurt themselves. It's mind-boggling to me how stupid people with education can be. My mom went to college and her defense for lack of gun laws being a good thing is "you need a better gun than the shooter!" 😭 Not to mention her support for the bill that will/would take away the thing that got her to college in the first place, just in time for none of her 5 kids to benefit from it.
Yes! I was born in 1981, my mom's first. She labored in hospital until I started showing distress. My heart stopped, so they did immediate emergency c-section and resuscitated me. Turns out, my mom has a pelvic shelf (malformed pelvis), and a chicken egg wouldn't fit out it, let alone a baby. She had 3 more babies via c-section after me, and all would have died (including her) without c-section. It is NOT physically possible for some women!
I had an umbilical cord tangled around my neck that would have strangled me if I hadn't been delivered via emergency C-section, which is why I despise this bull$h!t "movement" - and I use the term loosely. If my mom had been stupid enough to do this I would've d!ed. Plain and simple.
I agree. AFTER my daughter was born we found that her head was in the 98th percentile!!! She came at 37 weeks but I seriously wonder if she would have been a shoulder dystocia if she had gone to 40-42 weeks 😢 luckily I gave birth at a hospital just in case (natural birth with a midwife, positive birthing experience in a location that could handle any and all potential emergencies ❤)
The snide part of me wants to joke that it's natural selection taking its course. But it's more like corporate greed preying on the fears and insecurities of vulnerable people. And it's a sickening fact that we live in this kind of society that not only allows it to pop up, but actively allows it to spread, thanks to a lack of empathy and greed.
Im taking a class about how/why so many people ignore science, and how to try to improve this. And some of it is crazy. Like half of people think dinosaurs and humans were alive at the same time 😭
Even my horse had my husband, a veterinarian, attend the birth. Our foal needed help entering this world, breathing and standing. Some mares need help getting all of their placenta out. Also, this foal needed a transfusion because he didn't get enough colostrum and would have died. If my horse needs a doctor, people need them.
@CamilleGrffin i have a horse. a lot of people won't know what a mare is and it just makes sense to say "horse" instead of "mare". no one's gonna be like "omg was it a male horse giving birth?"
One important thing to mention is that a lot of cults free birth to avoid oversight from the authorities. They don't register the births so the children legally don't exist. This is often how CA goes unnoticed in these groups for so long.
16:15 my first birth was horrible. My doctor and i suspect yhay my placenta detatched slightly 5 days before my delivery but it stopped bleeding so i was sent home after the doctor on call would even come look at me and my nurse forced her to keep me for an hour of observation. Then when we started my induction the bleed started again and after 19 hours i was on am operating table disassociated because i was having a csection i never wanted or planned for. My husband was escorted out of the room with our son who i barely even got to kiss and as soon as the doors shut i hear the biggest oozing sounds and feel the hot sticky blood on my legs. Everyone tried to stay calm and keep me calm but all i could think was "oh i could die". My second baby i tried for a vbac and after 50+ hours of labor asked for another csection just as a massive infection set in and i was losing control of my body. Then i hemorrhaged again on the table and nearly did die, i had to be given two units of blood immediately after and an iron transfusion 3 days later. Ive birthed two 9+ pound babies and it infuriates me thay women are this neglectful of themselves and their babies in pregnancy by refusing all medical care. In between babies a radical midwife spoke to me and tried talking me into freebirthing and i truly thank God for my husband's reservations on it because my body will not birth the babies it makes and tries to kill me while doing it. My need for csectionsis God protecting me and i truly believe that. Its inherently dangerous and to pretend like its not and pretend like theyd be totally accepting if their baby died in childbirth is brainwashing i will never understand....and this is all said from a crunchy leaning person
Yeah it feels weird because it is an extreme form of cosplaying poverty. To have access to life saving measures that some would dream of and just say no thanks I'd rather not. Also I find hilarity in the idea of "the free birth society" having an annual membership charge.
13:11 NEVER heard of this in South Africa. I had a home birth but my midwife had heart monitors, oxygen and whole bag of things in case of emergency. That was 18 years ago. We also were only 4min away from a hospital. I now live in a VERY rural part of South Africa and there are no unassisted births in the village. We would never leave a mother to do it alone. Madness.
@liannesteeledeklerk3840That is terrifying. I know it happens by accident but I've never known of anyone doing it willingly... Wow. At least they should have a midwife or doula present. There is access to so much more than we had 20yrs ago.
It is terribly sad to hear these people being so misled. I lost a baby after 2 surgeries and 3 weeks on life support. With her heart defect there is no question she would have died without medical care, but had a chance with surgery. Though the outcome was the same, I would have never recovered if I had given birth outside a hospital and felt responsible for her death. I know everything was done that could have been.
3:38 Yes thank you! The lack of awareness of privilege is infuriating. It's so insulting to mothers in developing countries and mothers in the past who would've given anything for modern medical care to save their babies' and/or indeed their lives!
Yes! It used to be a privilege to have a skilled midwife or doctor to help. This is why women had so many pregnancies, but only a few kids survived. It’s the same with education unfortunately. It used to be a privilege for children, especially girls, to be able to go to school or even college. And in many places it still is. But so many people try to keep their kids away from schools out of privilege and distrust. It’s sad.
@InaraDancewhile pregnancy and childbirth were and are very risky, the high child mortality rate in the past was mostly a result of infectious diseases killing kids before age 5.
And even then, I bet they have some level of support from the local community, even if it's far from ideal it's better than whatever the hell these free birth people do
I am a pediatrician, and the baby described at 8-9 mins is NOT normal. Prematurity + gurgling/shallow breaths = RESPIRATORY DISTRESS OF THE NEWBORN until proven otherwise. What are her sats? This is a baby that at the very least is at risk for RDS if not meconium aspiration syndrome and would at the very least need observation but maybe may need further respiratory support with CPAP or with intubation and mechanical ventilation.
My first was a full term baby (40w+4d) I had meconium in my waters (thankfully I knew that wasn't great, so quickly went to hospital to be under medical observation in case thinga got bad. I also ended up having a fever needed assistance via forceps for birth after pushing for nearly 3 hours. She was sunny side up, with arm over her head (clearly why I struggling so much pushing her out). About an hour after her birth she was in dad's arms and started turning grey. Immediately rushed to the NICU and stayed on a CPAP for 2½ days then slowly reduced from just O² to room air, before she could come home. Thankfully the hospital we were at had "NICU apartments" so for her last day we stayed in those. They were small bays right off the NICU with double beds and private washroom, and baby could be hooked up and montiored while in those rooms too. Essentially we were able to parent in private but nurses would check in if alarms went off (which were just false alarms most times in our case).
I don't want to think about what the results would have been if my daughter had been born at home. She had meconium aspiration and didn't breathe immediately, despite the efforts of an amazing, caring team.
How can people NOT have the badic ideas to call the emergencies when their baby is not breathing? Wouldn't they call ancambulance if thry found an unbreathing child or adult in the street? Should I conclude thet their baby is gor them a fun experiment? Furthermore, I was premature and almost fied three times in my first year, despite very good care. I was around 12 monthes when I had a bronchitis that evoluated in a bronchiolitis despite the meds. My mom didn't wait gor me to stop breathing before sending me to the hospital... and it gave me live long asthma. And a quite bad one, jut, again, he medecine saved me: thanks to my meds, I live fully normally!
My sister had a C-section because she didn't feel my nephew move anymore. Her body wanted the baby out but she felt no contractions to be able to. If she did a free birth or/and didn't get medical help, both of them would not be here. My nephew is now a thriving 6yo
I had something similar where I went 2 weeks past my due date. My body was not having contractions so they induced my birth. The next day, and still no baby, they decided to go with a C-section. My son is 36 now. Sure it was scary back then but I was in a hospital and the last thing I needed to worry about was dying or my son dying because there were professionals all around me that wouldn't let that happen.
I gave birth to my first boy at home - with a midwife present and I had been under doctor supervision all along. I was very happy with the experience, but I was also 24 yo and had had a normal pregnancy - and the agreement of course was that if something was even looking to go wrong I would go to the hospital immediately. I wanted to give birth to my second son at home as well, but after 15 hrs the midwife suggested that I should go to hospital because the contractions had stopped and my water had broken.
Exactly my thoughts. Makes me SICK. These women have to be either extremely brainwashed, mentally ill, or both. I literally have hives as I’m watching this video. I’m so fucking angry for the innocent babies
I think they’re gaslighted into ignoring their instincts. Some are completely unable to understand basic reality, but I think many of them have been told to distrust everyone but the group and that birth when ”left alone” always works out
The irony that an organisation which supposedly promotes giving birth alone and following your natural instincts etc etc charges its cult members £500 to access instructions on how to give birth the “correct” way and turns the whole thing into a multi-million dollar business! It’s mind blowing!🤯
I was born an entire month late, to a mom whose pelvis was too small to let my head through. There was lots of meconium, and she needed an emergency c-section to bring me into the world. I'm just glad she didn't try to do it alone because I certainly wouldn't be here today if she had.
6:50 😱 It's like okay, you had your free birth. Now please run to the hospital with your baby that is not breathing properly... It's probably death rattles at this point.
8:56 not to mention that- GOD FORBID- that poor innocent baby dies after several hours of struggle that has been documented in a text thread. And now you’re (not only) a stupid parent who knew your baby needed emergency care and chose not to go, but you’re also a stupid criminal now. Catchin’ a case because they were too far up their own asses to realize a LIFE is in immediate danger and they did nothing… NEGLIGENCE!! These people cannot be helped.
They don't go because they are being told that doctors are all part of the medical cult industry. They tell them that the medical industry cult wants to kill or kidnap their babies.
How is it a crime? Genuinely it’s not like they killed it themselves. It just died. Sometimes babies naturally die. Like. I just don’t get it. Medical costs are really really high, and then you get treated like a criminal because you have a dead baby? I would think it’s criminal to criminalise a mother of a dead baby but okay
@sunfeatherX3 it can be criminal to negligently cause serious harm or death to others (such as a newborn). I'd think it could be argued FBS owners and staff are even worse, since they are directly profiting off giving harmful and wrong advice to the parents.
Free birth has gotten big in the East Texas area and it's so concerning! My mom is a midwife and she'll have women ask her if they give care but not be at the birth and my mom always says no and tries to warn people how seriously dangerous it is. I have literally told 2 people that "you don't hire a midwife or doctor for when things go right, you hire them for when things go wrong."
It's so bizarre. People have this weird romanticized idea of giving birth by themselves in a field full of wildflowers with bluebirds singing and a rainbow in the sky. Life isn't a Disney movie!
@FayeVert they really do! And I get people want this "perfect" birth. But I think of my births. I ended up with 2 emergency c sections. The second time around my uterus ruptured. If I was free birthing my baby and I would have died
The added irony of the site having a comment section where you can ask questions to a group of people that you believe know "more than you" is the entire point of having a midwife/doula so just HAVE ONE!
But any rational question challenging their teachings will get your question deleted and your account banned though! They actively deleted concerned comments in their forum when women in labour were describing medical emergencies and pleas for them to seek professional help never saw the light of day. Sickening.
My youngest was born with meconium in the amniotic fluid and she had a bit of gurgle in her breathing. I’m very grateful that I was in a hospital with attentive nurses and doctors because they were able to clear her up real fast.
My sister left L&D nursing a few years ago (went to work for a hand surgeon) after a few traumatic births she attended, the last & the worst was one of these 'Free Births' attended only by the pregnant woman's mother. Finally the mother called EMS, the baby died and the mother died a day later. Then ... The worst part of the whole already horrid situation was, the woman's family wanted the baby with the mother when she died. So my sister had to go to the morgue, get the baby, warm it up and take it up to the dying mother. Two deaths that were absolutely preventable and horrible for everyone involved.😢
I just had an accidental almost-free birth three weeks ago. Labor with my first son took 35 hours so I figured it'd never be less than 10 hours or so with my second. And 3.5 hours of the 4 hours I knew I was in labor were very manageable, so I thought I had time to wait for my MIL to pick up my older son and my husband and me to head into the hospital. After I woke my husband we were trying to get ready to go when all of a sudden the contractions got _really_ painful, and then my water broke, and then I started pushing involuntarily. 😅 Baby was born in our living room after about 5 pushes. My husband called an ambulance and the paramedics arrived a few minutes after he was out. They took us to a hospital where they removed the placenta, stitched up my perineal tear, and gave me a blood transfusion. (I did feel like I was bleeding a lot after the birth and when I stood up to get dressed then I got very dizzy.) It was pretty scary when I realized he was coming out and we had no one trained to help if things went wrong. So glad the paramedics got there quickly and there were no real complications. And I would not have dome that on purpose!
That must've been so scary! I can only imagine how dazed you must have felt holding a wholeass baby after like 2 minutes of pushing, having thought it would take hours!!! Like, what is this how did it get here!!
@solitarelee6200 Right at the time he was coming out I had the presence of mind to half-catch him before he landed on a thick floor mat. Then I checked him over to make sure he wasn't hurt and was breathing and all. But it was surreal and afterward I kind of thought I had dreamt it all. For much of the rest of the day, I kept thinking I would wake up after a nap and still be pregnant. (It probably didn't help that the situation meant the baby and I were separated for the first 24 hours.)
I have an old schoolmate who believes in freebirth and posts all about it over Facebook. My baby was born via c section at 28 weeks at 1lb 5oz because I had severe pre-eclampsia. My child would most likely have died 50 years ago and 100 years ago we both may have died. I always think it must be easy to promote free birthing when her 4 births have been wonderful and complication-free.
@jandanman I know, right? The doctors said my baby would have had severely scarred lungs even just 5 years before he was born because that specific baby cpap machine they were using was only invented recently. And chances of survival for his size and birth age were less than 50% in 2000! Crazy!
I saw an article by a woman whose wild birth had resulted in her son being severely disabled for the rest of her life. I could NEVER EVER forgive myself for having such hubris, I would live the rest of my life as half a person. Absolutely despicable, I do not forgive this lady or anyone else who does this. It should be punished severely by law.
@vg7735 lmao, then sue the doctors? What kind of gotcha is this supposed to be? It's still better to go to the hospital than to completely disregard modern medicine.
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Had you heard of the free birth movement prior to this most recent investigation by The Guardian?
First! And not really I am 10 and bored lol
I had never heard of it, I saw the video in my subscriptions and said, "oh no" and clicked immediately. Before watching the video, my thoughts jumped to: I bet the US healthcare system has something to do with this, and lack of funds -> lack of seeking care combined with the MAHA movement (and more) making people doubt healthcare providers as a whole, leading to this mess.
Only when the Guardian reported on it!
Nope, never heard of it.
I have! A podcast that I love, Behind the Bastards, did an episode on the free-birth society! "How the Internet Spawned a Baby-Killing Cult" with guest Caitlin Durante.
This is the first i've heard about "free birth" and i will say the only free birth i support is nobody paying bills for having a baby.
Wildly underrated comment. Also, hello from a country with free ($0) births. It is great!
100% agree. I don't have and never will have children but I fully support my tax dollars going towards babies being born safely and without putting the parents in debt. I really wonder how much of this "free birth" crap would go away if people could get all the birth related care for free.
Same. Positive vibes from New Hampshire, remember to be kind to yourself and each other during these trying times.
100%
Taxes used for the people who pay them. What a concept. I could see that being a good thing. Probably after the USA pays off their debt. It should not take long, right? RIGHT? Stop giving money to billionaires and corporations and give back to the people who pay them.
Women have given birth for thousands of years. Women have also died in doing so for thousands of years. Guess they didn’t notice.
So many things can and do go wrong...
Yep, women and many babies too.
Giving birth is not safe, and it's been made even less safe by the slow evolutionary changes leading into human babies having such enormous heads compared to the mother's pelvis etc. If ancient humans hadn't been clever enough to start assisting others during child birth we would have almost certainly evolved into a slightly different direction. There are tons of species where the females give birth routinely without any assistance, but they are built very differently to humans. And even then they can occasionally get complications and die. (Look at dogs or cats for example.)
I wouldn't wish that fate to any baby, or any woman either, but still there's a part in me that can't avoid thinking this is the most classical example of Darwin Award behaviour... The women who choose to do this regardless of having access to all sorts of qualified assistance are basically trying to remove their genes from the gene pool.
Also women used to help other women more. There used to be communities of women who helped new mothers.
As have babies. If you go to cemeteries that were there pre 1900s there are so many baby graves. It’s so sad.
We been having births for a 1000 years in communities, assisted by others that have experience. Assisting labour was a skill passed from woman to woman and now a days we have a boat load of information and experts that have studdied this. Why not use the knowledge and medicine we have? This people are stupid.
"Women have been having babies for thousands of years..." women have also been dying in childbirth for thousands of years.
even cows sometimes need a hand to keep mother and calf alive. And much of the reason birth is so dangerous in humans is the bipedalism and the huge brain, neither of which cattle have.
Just 150 years ago, around 1 in 3 children wouldn't reach the age of 5. But sure, modern medicine is evil and kills babies and makes them autistic through ultrasound scans and vaccines
And humans have been helping each other give birth for thousands of years. Some of them cared so much that they became midwives, L&D nurses, and OB/Gyns. ❤
Even primates help each other birthing.
@astralb.2647I remember my female relative from over 150 years ago and the graves from her children. It was in Germany and there was a Diphteria outbreak in their village. Almost all graves from 1878-1880 were children from months to 5 years old. My relative had to bury four of her six children. 😢 To hear, that people survived long time ago without vaccines, is so ridiculous. The graves proofed them otherwise
“If the baby dies, that’s a natural part of birth” is literally something the members tell each other when it happens.
As an ex-cult girlie, that sounds SO culty to me.
Those people are nuts!
True but unnature birth is more safe.
@duskonanyavarld1786 Having at least a midwife isn’t even unnatural. It’s literally something that most social mammals do, with few exceptions, but none I know of.
Truly horrifying.
Another instance of "trashy if you're poor, classy if you're rich".
Is it another woke trend?
@laurasilvera3766 nah, this is a thing. I'm conservative and I see that some things are considered socially acceptable for the rich/those who chose it, and unacceptable for those who are forced into it by circumstance. That being said, I'm not sure if there's anything "classy" about the Freebirth Society. Although their criticisms of medicine and midwifery are very valid, their solution is "leave it up to chance," which isn't helping the problem and leading to more maternal and infant deaths.
@laurasilvera3766 the rich are not woke.
@aleksandragieralt7370what makes you consider yourself conservative?
@queerceramics the fact that I'm a traditional Catholic 😂😂 "conservative" would be the blanket term, as I think there are multiple economic models that could work, capitalism being one, distributism another, but I don't believe in communism or socialism (I'm Polish and my parents have been there and done that). If you're asking for the type of conservative that I am, I'm not sure.
Even bonobos, an ape, have supporting members during birth. Because it's dangerous.
In a mostly-unrelated note, "bonobo" is a Spelling Bee word.
Bonobo chimps are very similar to humans in terms of behaviour.
Yep, even they know that is when that female is the most helpless and needs help and protection.
I have seen cats help their friends and daughters give birth.
Orcas and elephants too, I think? It’s such a basic concept. “This is hard. I’ll help.”
Giving birth alone is a nightmare. Midwives are close to being the oldest jobs in existence, because mothers have always needed help to assist in birth..
I remember reading that the olderst job in the world is a souldier, but I think midwife is likely even older.
@leos7830midwife, farmer, soldier, sex worker.
The og jobs.
@leos7830 some animals have midwives. Elephants have their friends around when they give birth.
@leos7830 oldest jobs would be farmer/hunter/gatherer. I'm sure soldier is also very old job, but I don't think it's that old enough to be mentioned. Definitily some jobs making spears and bows for hunting existed before soldiers.
You know what? I don't think prostitution is the oldest job, I don't think _farming or hunting_ are the oldest jobs. I think _midwives and foragers have the oldest jobs._
My great grandmother was assistant to a frontier midwife. Usually she would help clean up mom and baby after birth but too often she prepared mom and baby for viewing before being buried same day. When things go wrong in childbirth things go south really fast.
Another reason to not have children.
@naseem9980 that’s a poor reason. she was a frontier midwife in the 1800s. Obviously medical care for baby and mom has vastly improved for everyone since then
@naseem9980 I mean, it's _one of_ the reasons _I_ never had kids and am kinda hoping for an early menopause, but in isolation it's not a great reason.
It reeks of "I've never had adversity in my life...I need to create a bad situation to overcome and feel superior"
THIS
Not always. A friend of mine wanted an unassisted homebirth because of a horrific hospital birth with her first baby. Her husband conviced her to have a midwife. She had amazing second and third births.
@mesquitemagicbut that's not unassisted, there was a midwife
@mesquitemagic
Also to add, why would you bring up an exception? If your friend has nothing to do with the statement being said, why would you bring her up in the conversation? Stop trying to fit the discussion when you don’t fit at all
@ChronicGoblinQueen exactly. Good midwives have OBGYN and hospital connections. They move their patient via ambulance to the hospital if there is a problem. They also advise their client whether or not they are a candidate for at home birth because of their and the fetus' health.
I first learned about "free birth" when I saw my neighbor's sad, tear-stained face. I asked her what was wrong. She proceeded to tell me that her friend had decided to birth at home with only her husband and a friend there. No one had any medical training. Terrible birth. Mother died. Baby lived thanks to dad finally calling the ambulance. Having worked in a third world country, I was absolutely shocked and stunned to hear that this was "a thing" in America.
Privilege
Unfortunately, not everyone in America uses their brain. It’s so sad when it causes irreparable harm! At least the baby was okay!
Gosh when I saw the title I thought this would be a take on free medical care ,I am beyond shocked as to why you wouldn't want any kind of medical intervention, even emergency measures at least .
@KandJplusR alive doesn't always equal ok...
@atropabelladonnaThis particular post said nothing about the baby having any issues after birth. The baby naturally would need to be rushed to a hospital to make sure it was healthy and give it the care that a newborn needs when they don’t have their mother.
Wild mothering? Even my dogs, my cat, and one of my mares either hunted me down to birth with me watching out for them, or waited desperately until I was there before delivery.
Yeah even the street cat ( We adopted her but she ran away)we used to feed came to us during labour for help.
same just recently we had a litter of kittens momma wanted my mom but she was busy so momma cat trusted me and the thing is I have done this so many times I've lost count
When I was a kid, there was a street stray (no one claimed she was theirs, but she basically lived only on our street) that would choose to give birth on our back porch at least once a year. We were the family on the block who had cats but no dogs, so my mom used to say we were her safe house. I didn't think about that behavior of hers until right now.
our cat found my mom and waited for her to sit down ... jumped on her and immediately started giving birth right on her lap. my mom had to help her with the bags and clean up for the first two. until Rena got the hang of it.
THIS!!!!! "Natural birth" is NOT solo birth. Not even for animals.
I have just given birth a week ago to my second child. Having a midwife present with 30 years experience was the most reassuring feeling.
I appreciate how you’re calling out the privileged and contrarian people who make up a large portion of this group.
I honestly appreciate that she touched upon it too
Yes, I loved that too.
I kind of wish she hadn’t. It means pretty much everyone in the comments is like “wow stupid rich people cosplaying poverty, natural selection lmfao” when it’s just your typical internet misinformation pipeline, like anti-vaxx. They take the thing you want most dearly (a safe, positive birth experience) and say "You will only get that with us. Trust us. We can give you what you want."
The people running this scam are rich, sure, and some of the people choosing it might be privileged, but people of all walks of life fall for this propoganda, especially traumatized people and anxious new moms with no support system. Poorer people are less likely to trust doctors.
I pity the people who are getting caught up in this and may lose their lives and babies as a result. It’s a shame that Mama Doctor Jones vaguely referencing privilege in a fairly reasonable way means that 90% of comments think the main reason people do this is “trying to be better than you” when in reality it’s a fear of hospitals that has been caused by the failure of the medical system to treat pregnant patients with respect.
@1@1Le@1Letter23Numbers.ee that people who have the option are privileged. But people who are cosplaying poverty for fun don't usually drink lead water for the authentic experience. These people are doing something dangerous that harms them. Saying something like "these dumb poverty tourists are so privileged they think consequences will never come to them" is completely missing the point. The free birth movement won't be stopped by us thinking we're better than them and roasting them for being stupid and privileged, it will be stopped by an increased trust in science, breaking up these cults, and a medical system where pregnant patients don't get mistreated.
On a similar note, I would hope that most of the people in this comments section are willing to acknowledge that THEY are privileged for having enough sex ed knowledge to recognize this as a grift. But I don't think they will, because they'd rather make fun of women who are at serious risk of death and losing their babies. It’s like making fun of someone on an extreme and dangerous diet by saying, "don't they know they're privileged to have access to food?" (Like, yes, but I feel like only saying that doesn’t capture the fullness of a complex and painful situation.)
I agree!
As a German, it baffles me that midwife is not a protected and regulated profession in the US. Here it is highly regulated and there are very high standards for midwives.
In the US, anyone can call themselves a "midwife" or "certified midwife" (because bogus organizations can give a stamp of approval), but a Certified Nurse-Midwife (CNM) is an advanced practice registered nurse. A CNM is extremely legit and works under an OBGYN. Most places that have board-certified OBGYNs also have CNMs. A CNM also has to have at least a master's degree. It's crazy that we don't just say that anyone who isn't an accredited CNM with state licensure can't call themselves a midwife. We already have a system to have credible midwives, we just need to make it illegal for people who aren't credible to also call themselves midwives.
It's the same in the UK as Germany. Our care is led by midwives and you have very little doctor interaction during a low risk pregnancy
@kamcorder3585 yes, this. I think in the US there are a lot of groups that will create a title that is similar to accredited ones to take advantage of the fact that most people will not be able to tell the difference.
Another example is nutritionist (zero requirements) v. Dietitian (all the requirements and regulations).
Yes, it's a regulated title in the UK too:
"Midwifery is a protected function in the UK, meaning it's a criminal offence for any person other than a registered midwife, or a registered medical practitioner, to attend on a woman in childbirth (except in emergencies or when in training as a student midwife or medical student).
It's also a criminal offence for someone to falsely represent themselves as being on our register and use the protected title of ‘Midwife’, or falsely represent themselves as possessing midwifery qualifications." (From the Regulated Professions Service website)
@WiredPigeon
In Western culture, MDs (primarily, when not exclusively mxle) have always mobilized political power against midwives (primarily, if not exclusively wmn) d/t financial incentive.
I still remember someone calling me misogynistic for criticizing this. Apparently maternal death is empowering because choice?
Choice only matters when convincing women to kill themselves for their only purpose: incubation, obviously.
This kinda stuff makes me want to throw up
Like yeahhhh on the most technical level, women indeed have the choice to die in childbirth in a field somewhere? But is that a feminist act??? Bizarre.
Anyone who thinks it is misogyny to say this is a bad thing to do in this day and age with so many advances to save mom AND baby are moronic.
That's called choice feminism. It's the idea that any decision made by a woman is inherently feminist and therefore, criticism of anything a woman does is anti-feminist at best and misogynistic at worst.
It's absolute rubbish.
medical care and caring about the health of you and your baby is obviously just a patriarchal scam /s
They are in the same misguided train of thought as a friend of mine who was spouting that anything natural was harmless, She was appalled when i told her i could poison her most naturally with at least 5 or 6 plants in my garden...
eating manchineel fruit because natural fruits are definitely always healthy
Let me go make you a salad! The hemlock, bittersweet nightshade, bloodroot, and daffodils are doing wonderfully this year! (I only lack the hemlock in my own garden… as far as I know.)
I guess your friend is okay with ingesting arsenic and cyanide? Those are also “natural”. 😅
The ‘natural is always better’ crowd conveniently forgets that half the things that kill people on a regular basis are perfectly natural. Disease is natural. Suffering is natural. Death is natural. But these things are not better because they are natural, and the things that prevent them are not worse because they are unnatural.
@ryn3872 would you like some foxglove tea with that?
So I used to work for Doctors Without Borders, which runs the world's busiest maternity hospital in Afghanistan. There were pregnant and sometimes even labouring women (and often girls) who were brought to the hospital by their families over an extremely dangerously journey, in order to be treated by professions in a proper medical setting. I'm talking, rural, tribal Afghanistan where no-one in the entire family has ever been literate. And they had the common sense to seek actual medical help. But women in 1st world countries deny giving themselves and their babies the best chance in life because of a grift.
1st world problems am i right?
Thank you for putting this in perspective.
That’s what happens when people are overly sheltered and far removed from the real world. 😅
It's similar to what's happening with vaccines isn't it? Places that are ravaged by disease would jump at the opportunity to get vaccinated, whereas measles is on the rise in the USA thanks to the anti-vax movement.
@pancakedroid yeah that's it. It's the same thing with reading and writing and school too. Now people want to do "unschooling" which is like letting them learn what they want to learn which is STUPID and imo child abuse! I was homeschooled and I did very well in top in my class at engineering school in an engineering college so homeschooling can work but "unschooling " is nothing like that. People are treating schools as places that are going to indoctrinate their kids into a cult (quality of school has gone down lol but this is ridiculous) so they decide to keep them home and just "let them decide what they want to learn". Meanwhile, throughout history and all over the world people learning to read and write and do math is a PRIVILEGE! And these parents are just keeping their kids from that privilege because it's a trend! Makes me so mad.
Survivorship bias made us forget just how many ways women and babies can die in childbirth.
Some governments have also forgotten how many ways parents and children can die after childbirth. too. Having an anti-vccination grifter in the Department of Health is a strong warning sign.
12:50 I may not have any medical training but “passive approach to newborn resuscitation” is an utterly chilling phrase I hope to never hear again
You and me both.
*shudder*
Complete child abuse 😭 I hope that kid that was 4 weeks premature and struggled to breathe survived and now lives with people who take better care of her
Isn't that like murder? When you don't aid a helpless child? It should be anyways
That’s a horrific sentence. I can’t believe this is some people’s reality 😨
i hate the saying "child birth is not a medical event" because it can be REALLY FAST. faster than most people can call 911.
my first childbirth was very normal until the afterbirth came out. i started bleeding out very fast. my midwife(who was also my ob) was on top of it so fast. because she was still right there helping me.
i would have died if that had happened at home. i literally only bled for less than a minute and i still needed two units of blood.
Same here. Gave birth 6 weeks ago, and i had no idea that I was having a post partum hemmorage until it was over and under control by both my obgyn and midwife 3 minutes later.
It is fucking THE medical event lmao
You would not have died at home if you had a trained midwife. I was bleeding heavy after a home birth (with a trained midwife) she gave me a shot of pitocin and we went to the hospital. All was fine. We were prepared to leave if needed and my midwife was on top of everything. Certainly in this case free birth would equal death
Same. My mom would have died birthing me if she had not already been in a hospital. She started bleeding out right after I came out.
My brother would have also gotten asfixiated had she not been in the hospital with a very trained doctor, because he was able to notice that my brother was tangled in the umbilical cord and thus was not breathing.
And then to hear that my SIL wanted a home birth with only a Douala was... really something.
8:11 when they eventually take this baby to a doctor and they discover it has brain damage from lack of oxygen, the doctor will be blamed for “ruining my perfect natural born child”
Nah CPS could get involved if they have other kids, cuz that's giving negligence.
If she even makes it to the hospital alive at all…
Yeah, that's assuming the baby lived. Under those circumstances, I'm guessing it didn't survive.
@awkwardautisticit is negligence because the infant is in respiratory distress and they are not seeking professional intervention, nor are they qualified/educated/equipped to perform life saving measures on a newborn.
@awkwardautisticthat's a fair point. I'm sorry that happened.
We're at a point where people are so far removed from consequences of not having medical care that they think it's unnecessary. Same as with vaccines, pasteurising milk... It's easy to romanticise 'the past' when you live a life full of modern comforts and protections.
Excellent point!!
Excellent point!!
💯
And when you are astonishingly ignorant of history and the past.
This is exactly what’s happening 🧐
Every time I hear about Free Birth I think "Bitches about to find out why mortality rate for babies was ridiculously high back in the day"
FAFO at its worst.
It also makes me think it’s kinda self centered? If I am so concerned for my baby I would at least have a midwife. At this point it’s apparently about the mom’s vibes… just going off of, “I am so natural and free” vibes, so she feels good about it, and not worried about what’s best for baby which would include a back up team of support and the availability of a nicu… 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
also, if not even worse, mortality rates for mothers 😅😅
I had my second child in 2025. I felt like I was going to die after a complication. I got epidural and took the pain away (I got stuck pushing with no medicine for 6hrs cos shoulder was stuck) then they didn’t wanna csection me so after the epidural I was more willing to let them tug on me … it hurt and I’m just glad I survived. This comment EXACTLY
@meeperton2209 Yup. Extremely selfish and self centered. I've been watching this group for years. Whenever one of their members has a baby that dies because of their idiocy, they tend to announce that said baby was "born sleeping". No. Your baby was born dead because you labored for days on end after your water broke and the baby was breech the entire time. The poor baby died stewing in it's own sh*t whilst you were convincing yourself that this is all NATURAL and that MY BODY KNOWS HOW TO DO THIS. They talk about how death is a natural outcome to birth quite often too. Funny how death is not considered a natural outcome in the hospital...
The sentence "shallow breathing and gurgling wouldn't personally concern me" is absolutely unhinged and will be haunting me for a while
So let me get this straight: They have Free Birth courses and forums and groups where you can get (*checks notes*) guidance on how to avoid injury and death for both mother and baby? Wow, if only we had this knowledge outside of the Free Birth Society as well!
I mean, maybe if we had a way to systematically collect this injury/death-avoidance knowledge, train people in it, and maybe those people could even be there for the births in case this knowledge is needed! What a radical idea.
Absolutely love this comment ✨️❤️
Their "avoiding injury and death for mother and baby" guidance pretty much only consists of "avoid all medical care entirely"
(*checks cult advice*) Nooo! You awful person. How can you even suggest this?!
😔
People already do train in this injury avoidance knowledge. It's called a medical degree. I fully support people choosing how they give birth but these people are risking people's lives (whether they're the mother person or the baby person) with the bad advice they give. In rare cases, you don't need medical intervention but giving birth is a major thing and has for millenia been done with experienced supervision.
@Ruenig That was the point of her sarcastic comment, good on you for spelling it out.
Free Birth, except you gotta pay for dangerous “advice” and you can’t speak out against it. But its free
Yeah but it's free from all that evil, life saving medical stuff.
(/s just in case)
Yeah why get a midwife or a doula, or pay the hospital? Better pay some rando for advice over facebook cuz it's FREE. Logic left the chat
The things some people do for money....
It's free as long as you do exactly as you are told
I just... even midwives have been common for such a long time! Even into antiquity, you had women in the community who had previously assisted in births and passed down generational knowledge to make the process as safe as possible. So I mean, to do it completely alone just for ideology, and with the abundant freedom to choose otherwise?? That's insane. Patently insane.
Yes, exactly! Even today in parts of the world where medical care is not accessible, women don’t give birth totally solo. Someone helps out, often someone who has assisted with births before and has learned some things.
I'm currently reading a book called 'Born' and it notes from prehistoric times women don't give birth alone cause of the risks.
Came here to say this! Midwife literally means "with woman" even if they didn't have medicine, c sections, NICU, etc. they still had people there who had the best knowledge about childbirth available! The idea that people have just gone out in the woods by themselves to give birth until hospitals is so nuts
@samanthamay2865 Yeah, it's not even true
I wanted to add the same kind of comment. Midwives have been around for as long as humanity exists, and for a reason. We even have observed some kind of "midwifery" with monkeys! (An older female monkey helping a young one give birth).
And all those midwives were doing their best to save mother and baby, with their own knowledge. And by the way, midwives in ancient times knew a lot of things (well, the best midwives, of course, there were bad ones too) and could take care of some complications (not all of them, but most of them did more good than bad).
The thing that is WILD to me is that yeah, maybe women have been giving birth for years. But MOST of the time, even in rural countrysides or before today’s medical world, they *still had another (usually) woman attend*!! There would be someone in the community who helped with the births! Sisters, mothers, relatives! You did not do it ALONE!! It makes me wanna tear my hair out.
Think about it this way: they are manipulating this women to get their money. It has no logic behind it, it's just a tactic to use people who are scared of the system.
My great grandmother had 10 births and 4 surviving children. Who wants those odds?
My grandmother had 4 births and 3 surviving children. Her best friend only learned she was going to have twins, when her doctor told her she was going to have to start pushing again, because this was before ultrasound imgaging.
(invented for mainstream use in 1963, according to wikipedia)
There are so many non-invasive ways, checking up with a doctor regularly can help identify risk during a pregnancy, or just simply give you more info. Like checking on the mothers blood pressure or tell you if everything looks fine on the ultrasound.
It's so dangerus (but it makes sense in a very backwards way), that any conspiracy or "alternative way" of doing something always has to completly disavow all science and established systems, otherwise it would be easily debunked by the existing evidence and scientific consensus.
My grandmother had 7 births and 5 surviving children
@paulachristie7807 My great aunt had 2 births and 0 surviving children. Results varied from woman to woman, but the odds where pretty dreadful.
I don't know exactly how many siblings my grandma had because some died during birth so nobody card to count them.
my maternal grandmother had 11 pregnancies and 8 surviving children...with the assistance of a midwife. My other grandmother had 12 pregnancies and 12 surviving children, she was the exception, not the rule.
They say the medical field preys on women's fear. How are they any different?
Exactly. They’re morons
Ding ding ding!!!
Groups like this work on projection. Think about the people who claim flouride somehow deposits calcium on the peneal gland. Or antivaxx groups. Anti 5G groups. Etc.
They tell you to be afraid of everything except them.
They think they're different because THEY profit off the fear, not the doctors. Totally different. (Sarcasm in case it wasn't clear)
I recently saw one of them say that OBs insist on a c-section when baby is sunny side up. I had a baby that they suspected to be sunny side up for a moment, due to the contraction and fetal heart rate pattern. They had me do certain positions to encourage him to turn, everything was fine. Not one time, not even as a passing comment, was a c-section even mentioned. But this person was convinced, because the crunchy crunchy people had told her so.
Exactly, I think it’s so sad because people who do have bad experiences with medical systems/providers turn around and then fall prey to the exact same exploitation in the anti-medicine communities/companies. It’s hard sometimes for me to understand how they don’t see the hypocrisy and why they put trust in people who don’t have their best interest at heart.
I was a patient of an OBGYN who was actually a sexual predator who is currently in jail, and his license was finally revoked after 80+ women came forward.
I'm not rich, but I can see why it's appealing to give birth alone. Even with my very real medical trauma, I can see that their logic is ridiculous.
I am sorry for your and the other women's horrible experiences
i know it can be women too, but this is exactly why i side eye male doctors who work in female medical fields. i trust none of them, idc if they're the best OBGYN/gynecologist in the world, them simply choosing that profession immediately sets off red flags for me. there's just too many cases.
The so called 'father of gyneacology' experimented on enslaved black women.
@murmirr how many cases have you actually seen? 5? 10?
Now compare that to the probably millions of male OGBYN/gynecologists on the entire planet who aren't sexual predators.
You are judging a massive amount of people on the actions of a small minority of evil people
And by your logic it must be a redflag for female nurses to want to work with baby's. You know because of all the cases of female nurses murdering baby's.
"shallow breathing and gurgling wouldn't personally concern me" has got to be one of the worst pieces of advice i have ever seen given. anyone who understands basic triage knows that that is a BAD SIGN.
If a random dog I'd never seen before was doing that, I'd rush to the emergency vet running every red light (if safe to do so) on the way. But they wouldn't do that for their child!
I would go even further to say that anyone who experienced breathing knows that that is a bad sign.
Shallow breathing and gurgling sounds like what happens just before curtains
@TheImprovised bingo
Scary
Nothing is worth a dead baby.
or a dead mom!
It’s probably just as likely for the mother to die
Deaths during pregnancy used to be extremely common centuries ago.
And that was probably with a midwife, or a neighbor who had already delivered.
Alone 😳
@awkwardautisticsadly
@ilovetheearth7065 i agree.
Babies are killed by Hospitals far more often.
I hoped to have a natural birth, in the hospital, with no drugs. What ended up happening was that I had to get induced when my due-date passed, and then I had to have an emergency c-section when my baby's heart rate started dropping. I now have a healthy son and no regrets. God bless doctors!
Unfortunately getting induced makes you much more likely to require a C section. You likely could have had your natural birth if you just waited to go into natural labor.
It's normal to go past due dates. Unless there is a major issue going past your due date is completely fine.
@g5f-i8xyes, I am aware of that, and I probably could have waited a bit longer. But I was 41 at the time, making it riskier to carry past my due date, and my doctor's advice was to induce. Again, it comes down to: things probably would have gone just fine if I had waited; but I chose to follow my doctor's advice because statistically it is safer to do that. I don't know what would have happened if I had waited; but I do know that my baby was delivered safely.
my older sister just recently had her second kid on December seventh my niece was supposed to be born in November but she was being stubborn in not wanting to come out of the oven but eventually she came out with out them inducing my older sister infact if she didn't come out on the December seventh they were planning on inducing my sister on the tenth of December but all things came out good she's a healthy little baby this is how you should do things when it comes down to labor in a hospital setting or with a really good certified midwife most midwifes if something goes wrong they take you to a hospital or talk you into one I now have two nieces and a nephew from another sister
Same. I wanted a natural drug free birth in the birthing centre of the hospital.
I was in labour 36 hours after my water broke had gas, pethidine an epidural, and a c- section when my son went into distress. It took my son 5 minutes to start breathing.
He was in a humidicrib with oxygen for days and me and my son and I were on IV antibiotics.
Although mistakes were made by doctors (delayed c-section), the midwives that advocated for my epidural and emergency c-section saved the lives of me and my son.
Without the medical team performing a c-section both me and my son would not be here.
Women and babies have been dying in childbirth or shortly after for thousands of years.
That is why women gave been helping each other give birth and out of that knowledge we developed the PROFESSION of midwifery. Which in most countries is a highly skilled and highly regulated profession.
Same here. 4 days unprogressing labour then there was meconium in my amniotic fluid when my waters broke and my son's heart rate was dropping badly every contraction and not recovering.
I was offered to let labour progress and get further induced at 4cm dilated but I said absolutely not I will have the c section. I would have never forgiven myself if I'd allowed my baby to die from my poor decision
My husband lost his first wife due to complications in childbirth. Did he trust the medical profession after this? Absolutely not. Did he insist that I have full access to medical care during *my* pregnancy and delivery. Abso-freaking-lutely. Because, despite the trauma of losing his first love, he wanted to make both me and our son were kept as safe as humanly possible. Which was for the best, because when I went into shock after delivery, the staff immediately recognised this and dealt with it.
My SIL was so mesmerized when she saw a video of a pregnant lady walking into a forest pond, it cuts, and then she walks out holding a baby, all i saw was infections happening in 3, 2, 1 😅
😨 Yeah, I saw the lady on the beach in the sand and saltwater waves giving birth video. What are these people thinking!? 🛑
Same here.
Infection and death.
Sounds like video editing to make you think she gave birth where she didn’t. Just walk a bit into the water, go back inside, then when labor happens and you have a regular birth in a dry house or hospital, just hold the baby walking out of it… cut and paste the two shots together and voila.
@jennoq1311 If it’s the one I saw, she’s just sitting there. She could just be lying about giving birth there and I hope she is
@DeathnoteBB I've seen others that show the baby coming out of the vagina into a river. Nasty.
If a newborn needs mouth-to-mouth for an hour after birth, how do you not feel like calling an ambulance? Isn't this the moment to panic and fear for your baby, rather than the moment to text random group chats?
Those parents don't trust the medical system. Their ideal birth is one with no other people involved. They are messaging someone who is seen as an expert.
@SenshiSunPower but baby is obviously not doing well. Like, are we just pretending like shallow breaths after _an hour_ of mouth-to-mouth is normal??? Where has she ever heard (and then believed!) that such a thing is normal at all?? What's going through her brain during that hour that she can see her baby isn't breathing, she & her partner don't know what to do and the situation doesn't appear to be improving??? What is happening in people's brains when their distrust of the medical establishment comes up against the scary reality of medical emergencies??
I made the mistake to pause and read at 6:11 and I feel like my lungs are gutted out. It is a horrific thing to see and read. I can't believe these people exist.
@thecavalieryouthIt is horrific - I'm completely with you - and have found myself feeling quite infuriated at some of the women freebirthing (not Saldaya and Norris-Clark, 'infuriated' would not be the word I'd use for them). And MDJ kind of nailed my feeling. It's so...privileged. Even those who had distrust in the medical system I'd think, arguably uncharitably, "Suck it up! You and your baby are more important than your feelings right now."
But....I've realised that.FBS essentially functions as a cult. Cutting off its members from traditional society (always traditional medical care, sometimez family too), lovebombing them, and selling hocum about what the female body is "born to do". So what do you do when you have the emergency? You think, "If I can't do this, I'm weak - they'll make me leave, I've seen it before (deleted comments). And I'm not weak! I want to prove myself!" Or you engage in the sunk cost fallacy ("I can't ask for medical help now. I've come so far!")
Not saying this exculpates the women who sought out FBS, or indeed the people who work there, but understanding them as brainwashed, I think, gives you some idea of where they are coming from.
@SenshiSunPower they don't trust it, fine, but trusting someone who says it's all good while your baby can't breathe? How about trusting your own instincts? Anyone in their right mind and normal emotional state will keep being stressed about their baby and seek help from other sources. I can only conclude that women who fall under the spell of this kind of organizations are simply not doing well mentally. It's tragic how they fall through the cracks of society.
There was a reddit post a while back of a pregnant woman asking for help because her husband and mother in law were going to force her to free birth. People told her to call the police for imprisonment
Yeah, I've heard multiple stories like that. Read one in the RUclips comments where a lady was forced. She didn't have enough support to get out of the Deep South, where she said she was living, away from her family and friends. I was very disturbed reading that.
No one should have the "right" to tell their wife/daughter/daughter in law HOW to give birth or WHO gets to be in the room. If my husband did this to me (& we've been together 32 years, since I was 14) I would be GONE. It's sad that anyone is even in this situation that they feel they can't speak up or leave or call for help. So so sad.
I guess I was the opposite. The large hospital with a pediatric hospital connected was not the nicest or prettiest delivery place but I chose it because if anything went wrong I would have a team of pediatricians in my room in minutes instead of the nice hospitals that had to call for the pediatric hospital to send a team which would take about 30 minutes. And did have problems in the last few minutes of labor. Had pediatricians in the room at birth.
divorce and run
@Stardust_VegaMan. We need people out there to rescue people like this. :(
Midwifery is the oldest profession, so I don't really buy the notion that women have been "giving birth alone" for thousands of years. We are social animals who have lived in family groups and wise women have always assisted when possible.
If you can find a good one!
As a pediatrician, the thing with the baby in respiratory distress is going to give me nightmares
Yeah, one doesn't even need a medical degree to know that breathing troubles are serious and need to be properly taken care of ASAP
Yes! And to be told gurgling isn’t a concern.
@charlespentrose7834Literally breaking the law.. Those poor babies😢
As a mom who had a premature baby, (honestly just as a mom or even as a human with common sense) this is going to give me nightmares also
I am so so so shocked that person dint tell them to RUN to the hospital OMG !!!
Their sense of their own privilege is so complete that they think even medical complications won't come for them.
If you actually read The Guardian article that first broke this story you will find that it is actually the opposite. Many women who chose so called free birth had previously suffered traumatic births in hospital. It's not a black and white issue. The free birth society founders are dangerous and harming woman and babies but many women also suffer needless obstetric violence in hospitals in the US and other economically developed countries. Try having some compassion for vulnerable women and their babies who are the victims of disinformation.
@jasminef2027 soz it's kind of difficult when women have been forced to do this because of poverty or lack of autonomy, are now disgraced in their memory because of this ridiculous movement. i can bring up compassion but i'm also openly judging because it's yet another stupid "trend" manipulating women and telling them how to birth or do anything with our bodies. the whole thing feels like another "womanhood is suffering" - situation. it isn't
@jasminef2027 Trauma is extremely hard to deal with, but it's not a reason nor an excuse for making such irresponsible decisions that you can kill or severely disable your baby and/or yourself. The mothers making these choices are fully responsible for what happens to their babies. If your baby struggles to breathe and you won't call an ambulance, you're actively contributing to his passing
6:20 "it took an hour of mouth to mouth to get her to start breathing" ... and they sought advice... two hours later... from a non-medical professional. Okay ... speechless
Right!?
In my mind I’m screaming “Call 911!”
More than one brain-dead person in that room.
Would their brain even be viable at that point? I forget how long exactly, but I know it takes much less than an hour of zero oxygen to the brain to turn you into a vegetable. Crazy. These people are fucking delusional
They shouldn’t even be allowed to be parents at that point like why were they not at all concerned that their baby was basically born dead
How did these people even procreate? Theyre genuinely stupid, how could you NOT be worried and IMMEDIATELY seek help…
My cat literally bit my hand and dragged me to my own bed so she could birth her litter with me there. Wanting support is also instinctual, like NOT wanting it is freaking weird.
Get your cat spayed.
A person I knew from high school decided to this because she didn’t “trust” medical professionals. She had extreme labor complications and her baby ended up in the NICU for months. She begged people for donations to help pay for all the medical bills and it
made me so mad because she admitted she was in labor for over 56 hours and refused medical care when a family called 911. She put her baby in danger then wanted other people to pay for her idiocy. Also had some “free birth” moron tell me I didn’t need to have a c-section because my body “knew what to do”. Really cause my daughter and I almost died before my emergency c-section!!!
They'd forgotten the mortality rates from before modern medicine.
@Evija3000Amen, I say this all the time. So many mother's AND babies died before modern medicine.
I had a c-section after a failed induction, and even though both baby and I were fine the whole time in the end I still didn't want to risk complications by ignoring what my OBs were advising. Zero complications, I was healed in a matter of weeks, and 6 months later my daughter is perfectly happy and healthy. Even if the surgery wasn't completely necessary I wouldn't change a thing and risk my daughter's well being.
I question whether these privileged women who are so staunchly against medical help don't have some mental disorder. At least have a grandma present!
I CAN'T🤬✌️
@Evija3000 facts!!! Also think that is the flawed logic behind not needing to vaccinate against things like measles and polio. We collectively forgotten how deadly those viruses truly are!
Half of all humans who have ever lived died as an infant. Half.
"We don't need doctors/vaccines/medical care/etc bc humans have been doing it for thousands of years" Yeah, and for thousands of years people have been giving birth to 14 kids because half of them will die after being born and another chunk won't survive to adulthood. That's assuming they would live through that many births. Also not guaranteed.
We could continue to let people die or we could utilize science and medicine to save lives. It's not perfect, certainly. But it's the best we have.
Also, had 14 kids because no birth control.
A lot of women gave birth a number of times in the double digits, but only had a hand full of living children. . .
I am a Special Education Teacher, I have worked with students with extreme special needs. I have had a couple of students who have had unassisted birth and their conditions were a result of what happened during an unassisted births.
That is so sad and unnecessary. 😢
I have a son who suffered oxygen deprivation during a home birth. The “midwife” was untrained. I had no choice in the matter. I’m no longer in the “church” that advocated this. But I so regret what happened 40+ years later because my son has always had struggles. He is doing well, but I always will wonder how he would be if I’d had proper care.
@sandrabeck8788 wow I couldn't live with myself if I did that...
@sandrabeck8788 I am sorry for you and your son and so glad you were able to break away from the so-called church.
@MegaInulover why would you say this to her when she said herself she didn’t choose it and it was the fault of an untrained midwife?
I knew a couple who did free birth in the early 2000s because they didn't trust hospitals. After 30 hours of labour, they called a midwife for advice who called an ambulance against their wishes, saving the mom's life and the baby's. They were still pissed and threatened to sue 🙄
They were probably legally bound to do so after being given that information.
My mum’s best friend from med school (Friend is now 78 years old) , went to Laos 48 years ago to set up a hospital, providing medical/obstetric care to rural communities. They had pregnant women riding on bicycles, truck beds or sometimes walk for days to reach the hospital. The way that a society, where perinatal death has largely become a thing of the past, opts to engage in dangerous behavior for wanting to be edgy and having a warped romanization of “living natural” hurts my brain. Unbelievable levels of stupid
It's like all the people saying measles isn't a big deal. Only because we have reaped the benefits of the vaccine- my grandmother's generation were so desperate for it for their children as they knew how bad it could be!
I have kind of a theory that it specifically attracts privileged/ upper class women because they’ve never actually had to worry about medical complications before. Their lifestyles lead to them being so removed from the concept of their bodies being fallible that the idea of something “going wrong” doesn’t even cross their minds. They think if they’re generally healthy and have a positive attitude the birth will be fine. They’ve never existed in a way that meant medical care was bared from them, so they never had to think about the consequences of not having access to it. its like gum disease; if you’ve brushed your teeth every day since you were a kid, you probably dont think about the consequences of what could happen if you stopped doing that and then couldn’t see a dentist. They just take for granted that they’ll be fine.
It’s really awful, same as seeing parents walk for days to get their kids vaccinated and checked by a doctor in rural areas. The mix of privilege and ignorance is staggering.
Large amounts of FAFO. Not something I would experiment with on my child.
I had a free birth! Was it a wonderful, peaceful, natural experience? Absolutely not. Unfortunately the hospital told me to go home the same morning because it wasn’t time. Well apparently it was because my son was born just a few hours later on my living room floor! I almost did it alone too, my husband had gone to the airport to pick up my sister and ran in the door to deliver his son who came out in two pushes! I was totally petrified that something would happen to my baby boy…or me! Thank God he started breathing and and then crying after he was born, and thank God I didn’t hemorrhage. The ambulance arrived after about 15 minutes and took me to the hospital. I now have a happy, smiley 5 month old and a birth story to remember. But it was one of the most traumatic experiences of my life. I can’t believe people choose to do it willingly!
Oh my god! I'm so happy you and the baby are doing well! Congratulations on your little one and I'm sorry you had to go through that
@decomeoutThank you! Me too! It was very traumatic to go through, but now it does make for an interesting birth story. Lots of people tell me I’m brave for doing it, but the reality is I had no choice! I didn’t feel brave in the moment, just scared!
I also had a free birth and it was 1000× better that when I had a baby in hospital 20 years earlier. I took some castor oil and baby came right out. No cutting IV or medication. I bound right up and the recovery was way easier.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that.
I hate when nurses would rather shrug off symptoms than *really*, *seriously* think of the consequences of the “what if”
@kawaiicake8038It was the doctors that sent me home!
It is wild how people are romantasizing dystopia
"All natural is so much better"
*something natural, yet horrible happens*
"Omg I'm so shocked."
They are romanticizing r3t4rd4t10nZ
@eve0nline03 right???? “My kid has grown ill, he’s struggling to keep food and water down for days!!! We’re going to give him this tea I made, a warm towel filled with rosemary, and keep him close to us so the illness goes away”. THATS NOT HOW THAT WORKS LIBBY AND TOBY
It’s wild how so many people are *romanticizing such dystopias.* Just like doc said, *many mothers don’t have a choice* but to do what the father says and what society tells her to do. It’s sick and twisted how these people are even gaining a following, it has to be some *mass religious psychosis* that led these individuals to believe turning to the literal jungle is the best way to have a child.
*Mothers have died from infections after birth, no natural remedy saved them. Many babies have died after from a paletera of things, which is why so many people back then had like 10-20 children because the mortality was deathly high*
8:39 and this is also dangerous for the mom. She can have infection from the baby having the bowl movement before birth I know it happened to my baby. They kept her in the hospital for a week and they kept me on antibiotics for a week just to be safe. fortunately, neither one of us got an infection. I had to leave my baby in NICU.
We had a family “friend” who did this and lost her baby… she went on to do it a second time a couple years later with the same outcome. It’s truly a cult and very sad.
That is so horrible! 😢
oh. my. god
Darwin.
Oh no!
That’s the saddest thing. I’m so sorry to hear that.
4:34 poverty tourism is the word you’re looking for here
Lol I was thinking stupid is the word she was looking for.
Wow. It's unfortunate that I can think of several things people do that could be considered "Poverty Tourism." They all involve children suffering. Omg.
aka -- slumming
I feel like all the people saying it’s poverty tourism miss the point. People who do "poverty tourism" don't legitimately risk their lives for fun. This situation mostly from a crippling fear of hospitals and a misinformation pipeline very similar to anti-vaxx. The FBS, like all good cults, preys on people during the most vulnerable points in their lives.
1 in 5 women experience mistreatment during pregnancy and delivery care, higher if you’re Black. Nightmare hospital birth stories are a dime a dozen-lack of informed consent, procedures you don't understand being shoved at you, burnt out staff, buzzing overhead lights that won't turn off and you can't sleep; these easily drown out the good stories. Many people, due to medical trauma or hearing other people’s stories or just woo-woo beliefs, don’t believe they can have a good hospital birth experience. They may fear a good birth experience isn't possible at all. The FBS swoops in and says-it's okay! If you just do Exactly what we tell you, you will get everything you want!
I strongly critique anyone profiting from FBS or spreading the grift but I pity the women who are actually trying to do this. They might lose their lives or their babies because of it. As someone who did a lot of research into “free birth” and what causes women to pursue it, the utter lack of sympathy in the comment section because Mama Doctor Jones vaguely implied some of them might be upper class is kind of destroying my faith in humanity.
@Magnoliab199 I bet the rich women have no fear of botox treatments or any cosmetic nips and tucks - especially after that pesky pregnancy. FEAR???? BULLSHIT
This is horrifying to me as a healthy 25y/o who had a completely normal healthy pregnancy in 2024 but then had an unexplainable total placental abruption and was rushed to surgery for a c-section. I was told post surgery that had we been in theatre 2-5 minutes later we both would have died. My son needed 2 weeks in NICU and I am SO GRATEFUL for that as he is now fine. Thank you NZ medical system.
EXACTLY! One of my friends almost died from a bleed in her uterus that ended up requiring emergency surgery. She had a completely healthy pregnancy and even normal birth. But something along the way caused the tear in her uterus and they ultimately had to do a hysterectomy because they couldn't get the bleed to stop. It was insane and I felt so bad for her but I was glad she was in a great hospital that was able to save her
Same with my niece and her husband is a surgeon and he said he never saw someone move so fast with a scalpel.
I nearly died delivering my second due to hemorrhage. Medical personnel and modern medicine means my daughter has had her mother her whole life (so far) and also has a little sister she loves.
And thank God we get free public healthcare & maternity here! I can't see how anyone in the US can afford to give birth, which is sad
Same, but 11 weeks early. Emergency c-section. My girl turns 25 next month.
The Free Press reported on this. Many babies have died, including one of the founding members. It’s truly evil and devastating.
my wife planned to have a home birth with the midwife, her mom was going to watch our daughter downstairs, i was going to help (i delivered our first born in the hospital so i was ready to be heavily involved again) then her water broke and there was meconium and that ended our home birth journey right there. Fast forward 9 hours and my son had shoulder dystocia + he weighed 11 lbs 10 oz, not to be indelicate but had we pursued this "free birth" nonsense i would be a widowed father of one. modern medical science is the building on thousands of years of practices for what HAS worked and we have discarded practices that did not work - free birth being one of them.
Thank you for your comment!
Thousands of babies die every year because some stupid mothers think they know better!
I'm this far in. 0:55 and already at the conclusion that this is completely insane
Right? At least hire a midwife omg.
Absolutely insane! We have evolved to have Healthcare for a reason!
@droy426 even before we had formal healthcare women didn't give birth *alone* most of the time! They had family and/or women from their communities with them... this practice is based in such a wild lack of knowledge of what makes humans successful as a species-- COOPERATION! I mean for crying out loud, at least have someone who can call for emergency help there...
Seriously... people forget why medicine is the way it is. Cause without medicine EVERYTHING SUCKS BUTTS!!
Same
This is the same thing as the people who think vaccines are dangerous and not needed because of how well vaccines worked.
Lol
“Wild mothering” but it’s just me collecting strays and feeding the neighborhood birds 💀
This angers me. My poor grandma who lives in chile country side had my father all alone in the kitchen because my grandpa went to find a midwife too late. She always remembers it as traumatic, she felt neglected, she wanted someone there with her, she cut the cord herself with a kitchen knife. She was lucky that things went well. I can't believe that this people do this voluntarily! Risking their lives and others with negligent advice.
Your poor grandma, if you could give her a hug from me ❤
Even as an internet stranger I feel terrible for her.
Jesus... I can imagine the fear she felt. Glad things went ok for them, and I hope the midwife at least was able to take care of your grandma afterwards (as in, checking if she and your dad were ok)
[Unrelated note: hi fellow Chilean]
Lots of women have traumatic hospital births too.
@vg7735 .... okay?
@vg7735. It’s gross to be that dismissive of the suffering of real people
The ironic thing is that they actually ARE reaching out for help… but from faceless strangers on the internet.
Was about to comment this!
Yes, women have been giving birth outside of hospitals for thousands of years, but in the majority of cases they were attended by midwives or at least other women with experience giving birth and assisting others doing do. Honestly, up until the last 75 years, maternal death and infant death were quite common. If you want a home birth, get prenatal care and work with a licensed nurse-midwife with the awareness that if something goes wrong you go to the hospital for help ASAP-not message someone who has never met you for medical advice they aren't qualified to give.
And the ones that didn't have help either got an infection or died. Or they're babies got infections and died. There's a reason why child mortal used to be so high
Even today midwives who attend home births recognize when a transfer to hospital is necessary for mom and baby and act accordingly.
Yep. When looking at historical records of my ancestors and I see that a woman died shortly after giving birth I don’t need a death certificate to know what happened. A common occurrence in my family prior to 1900.
The people who run this group should be prosecuted. When a baby dies after birth because the parents deliberately refused to provide adequate healthcare for their child, leading to disability or even death, that is plain old child ab*se. This group is encouraging the most extreme kind of child ab*se and child endangerment, namely the type in which the child actually dies, nearly dies, or sustains permanent injuries. There has to be a subsection of some law about compelling another to commit a crime. They will only stop if people end up in prison.
AN HOUR OF MOUTH TO MOUTH TO GET HER BREATHING?!?!?!? That poor child has brain damage. I hope she survived! That’s so disturbing. They should have been telling them to call 911.
You are right. But that group would probably shut down that sort of advice.
Shaking my head.
Even if someone had commented to call 911, it would’ve been erased because that group doesn’t believe in advising medical intervention.
I’m not trying to be rude, but that baby is probably dead
Red Flag #1: "Pay us $500 to join our club!"
I also feel like there's a line between "freedom of choice" and straight up child abuse here. I'm disgusted.
"People have been having babies for thousands of years, why would you need anybody to assist you in that process?"
Yeah, because everybody knows that humans were solitary hunters who never interacted with other humans except to mate and raise offspring until the industrial revolution. Hunter-gatherer tribes were invented in the 1800's. Before that, nobody ever interacted with other women or elders to share information or help each other survive in any way until the invention of modern medicine.
Yes, and oftentimes to be extra sure she's alone in the process, when it was a woman's time to give birth, she found a dark, solitary cave in the mountains for it.
@Evija3000 Yes, and many died. Even in tribes where women are left alone to give birth alone, many still die.
@iris5678 I didn't think the "/s" for sarcasm was needed, but I guess it was.
@iris5678 I fear you have a categorical misunderstanding about the tone of the conversation.
Best comment. Absolutely wild how quickly these women are to ignore the fact that we have only survived as a species because of how communal we are
As someone whose entry into this world was nearly my exit, and who studies social history- things like medical aid that people have historically had access to- the idea of ANYONE opting OUT of medical care for pregnancy or childbirth is BONECHILLING. Cold straight to my heart. Why would you do this?
The infant and birthing parent mortality rate that historically goes with NO medical care is hideous. It was one of the greatest horrors of the historic world and still is in any place you don't have someone with SOME training there to assist! The number one cause of death for people who could give birth has been... giving birth. Your odds were often as bad as fifty fifty to survive the experience. Or worse.
I have no words.
This blows my mind. I had a perfectly normal and healthy pregnancy and no one knew my pelvis was shaped wrong. I never would have been able to deliver without help and surgery and had no way of knowing that until my labor was not progressing correctly.
I can't imagine being willing to put my babies at risk for free birthing.
Yes, exactly. All these people love to make policies and rules about how to make motherhood more dangerous for the women and children while calling it feminism! Because obviously the most empowering thing to do is kill your children by dying for no reason other than feeling like bragging that you had no help!
Every action against helping mothers and women be safe is always a step towards endangering children. All of the people that support abortion bans support free gun access and consider school shootings a necessary evil. All people that proclaim that they're "pro-life" will kill their children to make more children and solidify policies that will only hurt themselves.
It's mind-boggling to me how stupid people with education can be. My mom went to college and her defense for lack of gun laws being a good thing is "you need a better gun than the shooter!" 😭
Not to mention her support for the bill that will/would take away the thing that got her to college in the first place, just in time for none of her 5 kids to benefit from it.
Yes! I was born in 1981, my mom's first. She labored in hospital until I started showing distress. My heart stopped, so they did immediate emergency c-section and resuscitated me. Turns out, my mom has a pelvic shelf (malformed pelvis), and a chicken egg wouldn't fit out it, let alone a baby. She had 3 more babies via c-section after me, and all would have died (including her) without c-section. It is NOT physically possible for some women!
I had an umbilical cord tangled around my neck that would have strangled me if I hadn't been delivered via emergency C-section, which is why I despise this bull$h!t "movement" - and I use the term loosely. If my mom had been stupid enough to do this I would've d!ed. Plain and simple.
Wow, with all of the amazing scans they do these days, I'm amazed they don't check out the size and shape of the exit route!
I agree. AFTER my daughter was born we found that her head was in the 98th percentile!!! She came at 37 weeks but I seriously wonder if she would have been a shoulder dystocia if she had gone to 40-42 weeks 😢 luckily I gave birth at a hospital just in case (natural birth with a midwife, positive birthing experience in a location that could handle any and all potential emergencies ❤)
The anti-intellectual, anti-science leanings of the "wellness" sphere in the USA is scary
The snide part of me wants to joke that it's natural selection taking its course. But it's more like corporate greed preying on the fears and insecurities of vulnerable people. And it's a sickening fact that we live in this kind of society that not only allows it to pop up, but actively allows it to spread, thanks to a lack of empathy and greed.
Right wing agitators definitely try to funnel people into right wing beliefs via the wellness pipeline. 😢 It’s horrifying.
It's not just the usa. It exists in places with free healthcare (including free midwives to attend home births). It's nuts.
Im taking a class about how/why so many people ignore science, and how to try to improve this. And some of it is crazy. Like half of people think dinosaurs and humans were alive at the same time 😭
@18puppies91 where is this class? It sounds interesting
Even my horse had my husband, a veterinarian, attend the birth. Our foal needed help entering this world, breathing and standing. Some mares need help getting all of their placenta out. Also, this foal needed a transfusion because he didn't get enough colostrum and would have died. If my horse needs a doctor, people need them.
I think it would be a MARE if it's giving birth...😂
@CamilleGrffinI don't understand your comment, can you clarify?
@CamilleGrffin i have a horse. a lot of people won't know what a mare is and it just makes sense to say "horse" instead of "mare".
no one's gonna be like "omg was it a male horse giving birth?"
@CamilleGrffin they know it is a mare though?
One important thing to mention is that a lot of cults free birth to avoid oversight from the authorities. They don't register the births so the children legally don't exist. This is often how CA goes unnoticed in these groups for so long.
I was just thinking that it sounds like a cult!
This was my thought! Gloriavale, FLDS, and others. But even THEY do it with a supportive community of women who have experience! AKA, a lay midwife!
@heikestoll1205 It absolutely fits the BITE model: behavior, information, thought, and emotion control.
@MaidMirawynwhat made me think “cult” was that they remove comments and block people who try to help.
and when one dies it never existed...
16:15 my first birth was horrible. My doctor and i suspect yhay my placenta detatched slightly 5 days before my delivery but it stopped bleeding so i was sent home after the doctor on call would even come look at me and my nurse forced her to keep me for an hour of observation. Then when we started my induction the bleed started again and after 19 hours i was on am operating table disassociated because i was having a csection i never wanted or planned for. My husband was escorted out of the room with our son who i barely even got to kiss and as soon as the doors shut i hear the biggest oozing sounds and feel the hot sticky blood on my legs. Everyone tried to stay calm and keep me calm but all i could think was "oh i could die". My second baby i tried for a vbac and after 50+ hours of labor asked for another csection just as a massive infection set in and i was losing control of my body. Then i hemorrhaged again on the table and nearly did die, i had to be given two units of blood immediately after and an iron transfusion 3 days later. Ive birthed two 9+ pound babies and it infuriates me thay women are this neglectful of themselves and their babies in pregnancy by refusing all medical care. In between babies a radical midwife spoke to me and tried talking me into freebirthing and i truly thank God for my husband's reservations on it because my body will not birth the babies it makes and tries to kill me while doing it. My need for csectionsis God protecting me and i truly believe that. Its inherently dangerous and to pretend like its not and pretend like theyd be totally accepting if their baby died in childbirth is brainwashing i will never understand....and this is all said from a crunchy leaning person
Yeah it feels weird because it is an extreme form of cosplaying poverty. To have access to life saving measures that some would dream of and just say no thanks I'd rather not.
Also I find hilarity in the idea of "the free birth society" having an annual membership charge.
It’s the exact same as antivax I assume most of them are antivaxxers honestly
'Cosplaying poverty'.😳 What have we come to?!🤦🏼♀️
@WiredPigeon Funding to pay for what?? Incense and crystals? Insurance companies wouldn't want a slice of this liability pie.
literally though, like rich people really do have some weird hobbies
@earlgreyt123 exactly what I was thinking.
4:07 I’m grateful for the privilege to have access to modern birth centers and hospitals.
My son and one of my nephews would have died if they weren’t born in a hospital
13:11 NEVER heard of this in South Africa. I had a home birth but my midwife had heart monitors, oxygen and whole bag of things in case of emergency. That was 18 years ago. We also were only 4min away from a hospital. I now live in a VERY rural part of South Africa and there are no unassisted births in the village. We would never leave a mother to do it alone. Madness.
There have been cases of this in South Africa resulting in dead/damaged newborns.
@liannesteeledeklerk3840That is terrifying. I know it happens by accident but I've never known of anyone doing it willingly... Wow.
At least they should have a midwife or doula present. There is access to so much more than we had 20yrs ago.
It is terribly sad to hear these people being so misled.
I lost a baby after 2 surgeries and 3 weeks on life support. With her heart defect there is no question she would have died without medical care, but had a chance with surgery. Though the outcome was the same, I would have never recovered if I had given birth outside a hospital and felt responsible for her death. I know everything was done that could have been.
3:38 Yes thank you! The lack of awareness of privilege is infuriating. It's so insulting to mothers in developing countries and mothers in the past who would've given anything for modern medical care to save their babies' and/or indeed their lives!
Totally. Women in developing countries would sell their soul to give birth in an hospital and not risk certain death. Then u have these clowns :/
Yes! It used to be a privilege to have a skilled midwife or doctor to help. This is why women had so many pregnancies, but only a few kids survived. It’s the same with education unfortunately. It used to be a privilege for children, especially girls, to be able to go to school or even college. And in many places it still is. But so many people try to keep their kids away from schools out of privilege and distrust. It’s sad.
@InaraDancewhile pregnancy and childbirth were and are very risky, the high child mortality rate in the past was mostly a result of infectious diseases killing kids before age 5.
@bd68777 what is the point of this comment?
And even then, I bet they have some level of support from the local community, even if it's far from ideal it's better than whatever the hell these free birth people do
I am a pediatrician, and the baby described at 8-9 mins is NOT normal. Prematurity + gurgling/shallow breaths = RESPIRATORY DISTRESS OF THE NEWBORN until proven otherwise. What are her sats? This is a baby that at the very least is at risk for RDS if not meconium aspiration syndrome and would at the very least need observation but maybe may need further respiratory support with CPAP or with intubation and mechanical ventilation.
My first was a full term baby (40w+4d) I had meconium in my waters (thankfully I knew that wasn't great, so quickly went to hospital to be under medical observation in case thinga got bad.
I also ended up having a fever needed assistance via forceps for birth after pushing for nearly 3 hours. She was sunny side up, with arm over her head (clearly why I struggling so much pushing her out). About an hour after her birth she was in dad's arms and started turning grey. Immediately rushed to the NICU and stayed on a CPAP for 2½ days then slowly reduced from just O² to room air, before she could come home. Thankfully the hospital we were at had "NICU apartments" so for her last day we stayed in those. They were small bays right off the NICU with double beds and private washroom, and baby could be hooked up and montiored while in those rooms too.
Essentially we were able to parent in private but nurses would check in if alarms went off (which were just false alarms most times in our case).
I don't want to think about what the results would have been if my daughter had been born at home. She had meconium aspiration and didn't breathe immediately, despite the efforts of an amazing, caring team.
But the baby has to ~choose to breathe~, according to these assholes.
How can people NOT have the badic ideas to call the emergencies when their baby is not breathing? Wouldn't they call ancambulance if thry found an unbreathing child or adult in the street? Should I conclude thet their baby is gor them a fun experiment?
Furthermore, I was premature and almost fied three times in my first year, despite very good care. I was around 12 monthes when I had a bronchitis that evoluated in a bronchiolitis despite the meds. My mom didn't wait gor me to stop breathing before sending me to the hospital... and it gave me live long asthma. And a quite bad one, jut, again, he medecine saved me: thanks to my meds, I live fully normally!
I learned about Apgar scores in my child development classes.
My sister had a C-section because she didn't feel my nephew move anymore. Her body wanted the baby out but she felt no contractions to be able to. If she did a free birth or/and didn't get medical help, both of them would not be here. My nephew is now a thriving 6yo
I’m glad congrats! 🥳🥰
I had something similar where I went 2 weeks past my due date. My body was not having contractions so they induced my birth. The next day, and still no baby, they decided to go with a C-section. My son is 36 now. Sure it was scary back then but I was in a hospital and the last thing I needed to worry about was dying or my son dying because there were professionals all around me that wouldn't let that happen.
I gave birth to my first boy at home - with a midwife present and I had been under doctor supervision all along. I was very happy with the experience, but I was also 24 yo and had had a normal pregnancy - and the agreement of course was that if something was even looking to go wrong I would go to the hospital immediately. I wanted to give birth to my second son at home as well, but after 15 hrs the midwife suggested that I should go to hospital because the contractions had stopped and my water had broken.
As a mom I cannot fathom watching your baby in distress and NOT getting them the medical attention they need these people need help and lots of it
Exactly my thoughts. Makes me SICK. These women have to be either extremely brainwashed, mentally ill, or both. I literally have hives as I’m watching this video. I’m so fucking angry for the innocent babies
I think they’re gaslighted into ignoring their instincts. Some are completely unable to understand basic reality, but I think many of them have been told to distrust everyone but the group and that birth when ”left alone” always works out
The free birth is more important than the actual baby.
The irony that an organisation which supposedly promotes giving birth alone and following your natural instincts etc etc charges its cult members £500 to access instructions on how to give birth the “correct” way and turns the whole thing into a multi-million dollar business! It’s mind blowing!🤯
They’re scamming these women.
Please tell me they are basically a midwifery course. Please. Please.
I was born an entire month late, to a mom whose pelvis was too small to let my head through. There was lots of meconium, and she needed an emergency c-section to bring me into the world. I'm just glad she didn't try to do it alone because I certainly wouldn't be here today if she had.
To be honest, I think you both would have died. I am glad you and your mom survived.
Neither of you would have survived that. Thank goodness for modern medicine!
I was born 3 months to early and likely would've died
6:50 😱 It's like okay, you had your free birth. Now please run to the hospital with your baby that is not breathing properly... It's probably death rattles at this point.
8:56 not to mention that- GOD FORBID- that poor innocent baby dies after several hours of struggle that has been documented in a text thread. And now you’re (not only) a stupid parent who knew your baby needed emergency care and chose not to go, but you’re also a stupid criminal now. Catchin’ a case because they were too far up their own asses to realize a LIFE is in immediate danger and they did nothing… NEGLIGENCE!! These people cannot be helped.
Exactly. How is this not considered criminal?
They don't go because they are being told that doctors are all part of the medical cult industry. They tell them that the medical industry cult wants to kill or kidnap their babies.
How is it a crime? Genuinely it’s not like they killed it themselves. It just died. Sometimes babies naturally die. Like. I just don’t get it. Medical costs are really really high, and then you get treated like a criminal because you have a dead baby? I would think it’s criminal to criminalise a mother of a dead baby but okay
@sunfeatherX3this is really funny considering how many states have made miscarriages a crime
@sunfeatherX3 it can be criminal to negligently cause serious harm or death to others (such as a newborn). I'd think it could be argued FBS owners and staff are even worse, since they are directly profiting off giving harmful and wrong advice to the parents.
Free birth has gotten big in the East Texas area and it's so concerning! My mom is a midwife and she'll have women ask her if they give care but not be at the birth and my mom always says no and tries to warn people how seriously dangerous it is.
I have literally told 2 people that "you don't hire a midwife or doctor for when things go right, you hire them for when things go wrong."
It's so bizarre. People have this weird romanticized idea of giving birth by themselves in a field full of wildflowers with bluebirds singing and a rainbow in the sky. Life isn't a Disney movie!
Yikes!
@FayeVert they really do! And I get people want this "perfect" birth. But I think of my births. I ended up with 2 emergency c sections. The second time around my uterus ruptured. If I was free birthing my baby and I would have died
@FayeVert It does sound lovely, I admit. But a real life healthy mother and baby also sound lovely and happy.
@FayeVertexactly. Birth by itself is not really pretty, it can be very messy, bloody and traumatic lol
The added irony of the site having a comment section where you can ask questions to a group of people that you believe know "more than you" is the entire point of having a midwife/doula so just HAVE ONE!
But any rational question challenging their teachings will get your question deleted and your account banned though!
They actively deleted concerned comments in their forum when women in labour were describing medical emergencies and pleas for them to seek professional help never saw the light of day. Sickening.
A doula is not the same as a midwife.
A friend of my cousin died from it. They were all shocked when she died. She didn't even make it to delivery.
This is just another cult.
A death cult.
God, these poor babies.
“Free Birth”sounds like a recipe for disaster and is ripe for complications… thank you for shedding light on the subject Mama Dr Jones :)
My last pregnancy tried to kill me. These people would have pushed me to a very bad place.
Yeah, medical technology has made pregnancy less dangerous. Now complications will rise because of… reasons
My youngest was born with meconium in the amniotic fluid and she had a bit of gurgle in her breathing. I’m very grateful that I was in a hospital with attentive nurses and doctors because they were able to clear her up real fast.
My sister left L&D nursing a few years ago (went to work for a hand surgeon) after a few traumatic births she attended, the last & the worst was one of these 'Free Births' attended only by the pregnant woman's mother. Finally the mother called EMS, the baby died and the mother died a day later. Then ... The worst part of the whole already horrid situation was, the woman's family wanted the baby with the mother when she died. So my sister had to go to the morgue, get the baby, warm it up and take it up to the dying mother. Two deaths that were absolutely preventable and horrible for everyone involved.😢
Holy shit. I understand why she left.
OMMFG.
I wasn't there and I'm traumatized. My God.
That's horrifying
I don’t even work there and I quit!
20:11 lol the coloring
I just had an accidental almost-free birth three weeks ago. Labor with my first son took 35 hours so I figured it'd never be less than 10 hours or so with my second. And 3.5 hours of the 4 hours I knew I was in labor were very manageable, so I thought I had time to wait for my MIL to pick up my older son and my husband and me to head into the hospital. After I woke my husband we were trying to get ready to go when all of a sudden the contractions got _really_ painful, and then my water broke, and then I started pushing involuntarily. 😅
Baby was born in our living room after about 5 pushes. My husband called an ambulance and the paramedics arrived a few minutes after he was out. They took us to a hospital where they removed the placenta, stitched up my perineal tear, and gave me a blood transfusion. (I did feel like I was bleeding a lot after the birth and when I stood up to get dressed then I got very dizzy.)
It was pretty scary when I realized he was coming out and we had no one trained to help if things went wrong. So glad the paramedics got there quickly and there were no real complications. And I would not have dome that on purpose!
The free-birth movement includes NO MEDICAL CARE throughout a pregnancy. You had an emergency home delivery. WOW Glad all was okay.
@MaggieLarocque I know. I was being kind of tongue-in-cheek about it being an almost-free birth. 😂
That must've been so scary! I can only imagine how dazed you must have felt holding a wholeass baby after like 2 minutes of pushing, having thought it would take hours!!! Like, what is this how did it get here!!
@solitarelee6200 Right at the time he was coming out I had the presence of mind to half-catch him before he landed on a thick floor mat. Then I checked him over to make sure he wasn't hurt and was breathing and all. But it was surreal and afterward I kind of thought I had dreamt it all. For much of the rest of the day, I kept thinking I would wake up after a nap and still be pregnant. (It probably didn't help that the situation meant the baby and I were separated for the first 24 hours.)
Oh my goodness I’m glad you and your baby are ok! I’m praying for your healing ❤️🩹
NICU nurse here, I want to share this a thousands times over.
I have an old schoolmate who believes in freebirth and posts all about it over Facebook. My baby was born via c section at 28 weeks at 1lb 5oz because I had severe pre-eclampsia. My child would most likely have died 50 years ago and 100 years ago we both may have died. I always think it must be easy to promote free birthing when her 4 births have been wonderful and complication-free.
50 years ago was only 1975 😭
@jandanman I know, right? The doctors said my baby would have had severely scarred lungs even just 5 years before he was born because that specific baby cpap machine they were using was only invented recently. And chances of survival for his size and birth age were less than 50% in 2000! Crazy!
My Mom almost died with her first pregnancy, placenta abruption and eclampsia. The baby was a stillbirth.
I saw an article by a woman whose wild birth had resulted in her son being severely disabled for the rest of her life. I could NEVER EVER forgive myself for having such hubris, I would live the rest of my life as half a person. Absolutely despicable, I do not forgive this lady or anyone else who does this. It should be punished severely by law.
And what if this happens in a hospital due to medical negligence?
@vg7735 lmao, then sue the doctors? What kind of gotcha is this supposed to be? It's still better to go to the hospital than to completely disregard modern medicine.
@vg7735
Yeah don't wear clothes either because what happens if you're allergic to them?? Gotcha, checkmate atheists.
@vg7735. Then we advocate for better quality of care instead of willfully making the problem worse
As if pregnancy weren't dangerous enough as it is in the US. These people want an extra challenge. Deranged!
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