That moment when you realize Larian gave you the keys to a Brand new Lamborghini with all the bells a whistles but the industry is telling you to be happy with a 2008 Mustang eco boost
And some people are happy with electric cars. BioWare isn’t the Ferrari to Larians Lamborghini it’s going its own path, which is best for the industry. The game follows the route of God of War over BG3, but you expect it to be like BG3 cause the studio was tied to BG2 but I don’t know why people would begin to compare it that way when you got DA2 and Inquisition and all the people who made BG2+ DAO are long gone and Inquisition outshine those anyway in popularity. For the first time BioWare truly has an idea what it wants Dragon Age to be, this going forward will be for the best. We have studios like CDPR, Larian and BioWare all doing their own things.
@@Bro-dot-Minus all the things people like about God of War... If Bioware shuts down, it's their own fault for abandoning what made them great, while Larian carried on their legacy. And people always prefer BG3 to Veilguard because BG3 understands it's audience and Veilguard abandoned its audience to chance a fairytale.
Unfortunately, when you get bad product after tons of investment, it hurts that industry/market and scares away future investors. BG3 was able to resurrect and even push the standards of a genre because they cared about the product, among other things. Bioware trying to be its own thing and figuring itself out has managed to flop twice b2b and is basically on suicide watch with its most beloved franchise mass effect. Saying bioware finally had a direction for dragon age is accurate unfortunately the direction happens to be straight into the ground.@Bro-dot-
@Bro-dot- If I wanted to play a Soyny movie game, I would buy a Soyny movie game. 🤢 I buy a Dragon Age game because it's supposed to be an rpg, and I want to play an rpg.
Even in a normal playthrough there's a bit in BG3 where you can turn a girl's dead husband into a zombie and then flaunt the fact you are keeping him as your thrall.
Or break the wand and let her crying. Or give her the wand and let her hang to the false hope of ever get him back again. Or let the hag deal with her; let her die while fighting the hag or simply murder her yourself. And did I mention her brothers? Choices, choices...
Which I love for a necromancer run. The fact that these people dared call the gentleman with the pet/son skeleton a necromancer is a sin against all that fantasy represents
Hmm.. you don't even need to play the dark urge.. the first decision ever in the game is about choosing to be stupid, but the literal second is about killing, maiming or leaving Us behind. Followed by killing Laezel, killing the comatose people, converting a woman into a mindflayer, then leaving behind or killing Shadowheart. All in the literal tutorial area.
I think it's more impactful to do it the normal way and just leave him hanging so he whimpers "I'll perish..." as his hand slowly slips back into the void. No Dark Urge blackout there.
The moment I heard the introduction to the dialogue, I cringed. *Nobody talks like that.* That's how you open a (clunky) conversation with someone you recognize in a coffee shop, not how you start a conversation with a man wrapped by a massive fleshy tentacle. 🤦♀️
The biggest irony is that Dragon Age only exists because of Baldur's Gate. Bioware lost the IP but wanted to continue working on it, so they made their own.
@@ayeyuh6920 Bioware did not lose the IP, they gave it up because of how D&D was hard to work whit & would refuse most of their ideas. These ideas where used as the core concept for their own game. A Dungeons & Dragon Age if you will.
@@Kalamir5 It's because Atari acquired the license for Forgetten Realms/D&D from Interplay. I don't remember if they sold it off or if WotC was involved, technically I misspoke, Bioware never had the IP. They worked for/with Interplay at the time.
@@ayeyuh6920 By the way, Dragon Age is better in everything than Dragon Dungeons as a universe. Larian has not yet created a Dragon Age and Mass Effect level universe. Even Baldurs Gate is a Bioware baby. Therefore, close your mouth and be respectful, your Larian can slide even faster than Bioware, which have created at least 6 iconic games and 2 universes. And Larian has only created one good game and it's an alien universe. Larian still has every opportunity to slide even further than Bioware before they leave the same huge legacy as Canadians
going back to bg3, in act 1 i killed the men harassing auntie ethel. once i got to ethels house i lied to mayrina and said ehtel killed them. didnt change any outcome but the ability to just be an absolute fiend for no reason is why i love it.
Yeah I agree not every option has to lead to a new outcome but at least having the ability to express who this character is compared to another character is so underrated
@@Mediadosall Bioware games and most CRPGs have a linear story. Yet it is that illusion of choice and the ability to be a character is what makes a RPG. The outcome may be the same for major plot points, but it's how you act and choose that makes playthroughs different.
Veilguard: Make a decision on which city to sacrifice because you can't be in two places at once. BG3: Be forced into killing Thorne despite doing everything he asked of you because reasons.
@@olsongc8422 BG3: Can kill and sell out all of your companions for one reason or another. Veilguard: Forced to listen to sermons and can't say no to any of your companions because that's "too mean".
Funny, been playing the game for 41 hours and haen't felt like I've been lectured at or forced to listen to sermons...No more so than when any of the BG3 companions berated me for doing something that they didn't agree with. Did you know Tadpools are bad, and using them is wrong? I certainly did after the 10th time my companions told me so.
@@olsongc8422 Man, I knew people would say literally anything to defend this game... But all it takes less than 5 minutes to see how bad Veilguard's dialogue is ESPECIALLY compared to BG3. You don't gotta play 40 hours of Veilguard to find out how bad the dialogue really is, all you have to do is look it up. Some lies don't help your case.
The sequel made by a different development company did more justice to Bioware's memory than the game made by the same company (but entirely different team).
In DAI you got to judge your enemies and then straight up personally decapitate them because "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword." Veilguard is an embarrassing even directly compared to its own direct prequel.
Meh, the truth is that Ghandi only acts meek until he gets access to atomic bombs. From that point on, he is all about "an eye for an eye fixes global warming"
The most evil choice you can make in Dragon Age Vielguard is basically a Lawful/Chaotic Neutral decision. Baldurs Gate 3 most evil choice is Everyone Dies But You.
@@Imman1s The orb destroys the city. Dark Urge would literally destroy all life in the entire world. Not sure about him traveling to other world ala Thanos.
The problem with Veilguard isn't that it's not BG3, it's that it parades around claiming it's an RPG with a complex narrative and consequential decisions when in reality it doesn't even TRY to have those things.
Yeah like if the game had just been open about the fact that it's an action RPG, more focused on combat and they were moving away from the choices, I'd be like 'fine, not for me but I'm sure someone will like it'. But telling everyone it's a choice heavy RPG now feels like just deception to try and keep old RPG fans on board.
Dragon Age never really let you be evil in any of the games, they're all about being a good person in the wrong place at the wrong time, taking on the mantle of hero and pulling others along with them. I really don't understand the comparisons to BG3, BioWare hasn't made a game with that range since KOTOR, which was over 20 years ago.
@@Dnote_Z5 You were always a "hero" in DA but you could still have the freedom to disagree, be a bad person, kick out party members, etc. That's what the complaint is about. It's a shallow experience while trying to say that's it not. It doesn't matter id they haven't done it in x amount of years, it's still a a fair criticism of the genre.
@@Dnote_Z5 You absolutely can do some evil things in DAO. Overall you save the world sure, but you can do some seriously fucked up stuff along the way.
For REAL. It's especially annoying since it's been a recurring thing since Origins that Morrigan introduces herself to each protagonist the same way: "Well, well. What have we here?" It was a throwback that they threw in the garbage, probably because they knew none of the old players would play through this horribly written garbage.
I sent this dude to the Night's Watch, he saved Grey Warden lives due to that. That was the only thing outside of the Dragon attack and the last missions that had any consequence. Baldur's Gate 3 is the gold standard for future RPGs. Veilguard was after and fell short. I know BG3 isn't something easily repeated, HOWEVER, the gameplay elements are.
@ especially when DA Origins is so clearly an inspiration to the party dynamics of BG3. The camp setup, ambient dialogue, and approval system all feel very reminiscent of that game, and it’s crazy to see a new studio improve on those elements while BioWare fumbles the bag.
It's crazy that game journalists were describing Veilguard as a risen bar and a new standard for RPGs when it's one of the least impressive RPGs in the last few years, maybe even the last decade. It's not even up to par with previous Dragon Age or Mass Effect games. Games like Baldur's Gate and Path Finder are far superior in terms of being an RPG and it's not even close.
BG3 is just an AAA iteration of a good CRPG. Studios that attacked BG3 for setting an unatainable standards are totally ignoring the fact that it can be done cheaper - you keep focus on the core game elements, and you cheap out on voice acting and visual polish. It has been done before BG3, there are CRPGs with, granted - not as deep, but comparable approach. PIllars of Eternity, Tyranny, Pathfinder games, etc. Veilguard took the opposite approach - they kept the eye candy and dropped the core elements, and it bit them in the arse.
You don't even have to compare it to BG3. DAV fails in a comparison against every previous DA game in the series as well. As a narrative-driven rpg, DAV is just woefully lacking in every single way.
Dragon age origins - Until the Grey Wardens came. Men and women from every race, warriors and mages, barbarians and kings, the Grey Wardens sacrificed everything to stem the tide of darkness, and prevailed. It has been four centuries since that victory, and we have kept our vigil. We have watched and waited for the darkspawn to return. But those, who once called us heroes, have forgotten. We are few now, and our warnings have been ignored for too long. It may even be too late, for I have seen with my own eyes what lies upon the horizon. Maker help us all. Dragon age veilguard- So...I'm non binary.
The bar has always been there though. Maybe BG3 raised it because it was so much more successful than any other RPG. But even previous, massively successful BioWare games had way more RPG elements (DA:O and KoTOR, for instance).
Yup. and even though mass effect was a linear story. It was so well written with great characters to make up for it. even then, mass effect had way more choice
I disagree with the "new standard" part, because it isn't new. But sadly a lot of "modern" RPGs have been dumbed down. Bioware used to make great RPGs. Heck, the Baldur's Gate IP was created by them. But they lost apparently all their talent, which has been replaced by people who have no idea what they are doing. 🙁
This! Yes!! Louder for the people at the back. This is NOT a new standard, it's exactly what games used to be! All Larian did is keep their standards in place.
Exactly. Baldur's Gate 3 didn't set a new standard, it simply returned to the old standard that had been abandoned by everyone else for many years. An actual "Return to form" if you will.
@@amannamedsquid313 I'd argue BG3 was a cut above the rest of the rpgs ever made. There's so many things you can do in that game that you can't in any others. New Vegas comes kinda close. RPGs like tw3 and Cyberpunk are more linear pre-made characters, yet still amazing games. I've never played a game with more choice and consequense and player freedom before or since BG3. And if there is one i'd like to know lmao
@bmbrowns1778 bg3 is that way because of current day technology and the budget Larian had for this game, early access feedback, etc. You can't compare it to an RPG from 2009, you can't even compare it to their previous RPG games (dos and dos 2). Look for similar games in the future, not in the past.
There is literally no Conflict anywhere. When you choose what City to protect, i Chose Antiva which is against Neve. Aside from the fact that the City is filled wit blood and corpses, and you apparently cant access the Shadow Dragons anymore, Neve seemed to only be kinda mad or more slightly annoyed at this fact and went away for the time you get the last new crew members. And during banter oh my god. Even when there is potential for Conflict and some insults, nada. They vague post some statement that could offend the other party, then the other one does the same, then they agree that both sides isnt so bad.
The problem isn't how it is compared to BG3, nor how it compares to other DA (well not true it matters a lot lol) ... the real issue is that Veilguard ain't even a rpg. It's obvious it's the remains of some failed Online game/live service or even mobile game. It even got the trademark artstyle. No wonder choices don't really matter, besides the ending chapter, since they'd be basically providing something similar to Avengers, Suicide Squad or Destiny. No wonder puzzles ain't puzzles but just buttons to push to open a path and a tedious timesink. No wonder the backgrounds while pretty , feel designed like Overwatch maps. No wonder the gameplay is so basic, the whole combat and combo system was likely designed to be like Anthem, something where in theory each player teammates would use the same effects which detonates with each other. No wonder the companion don't even have an health bar, proper IA, nor real impact and damage on the fight , they weren't supposed to exists, and take the place of online players ... And then you've got the writing and dialogues, which would be crap even for an online service anyway, that one can't be explained
From all the things I've heard and seen of both games The problem isn't so much that DA didn't meet or exceed the bar of BG3 It's that it doesn't seem like it even really tried or that they pretended to try (giving the player choices, but the outcomes for most of them seemingly being the same)
Oh no, it's worse. 98% of the things you did in the last 3 games don't matter anymore. Suddenly, it's not one of the franchises' key features. Also, some of the established lore gets retconned to fit the new story, so there's noticeable contradictions.
@@ashleydavis5559 Yeah I know I was just stating the fact that Veilguard did worse then DA2 which is acknowledged as the worst DA game due to the fact that 70% of the game was cut during development. Veilguard did worse than a game that was only 30% of a game.
Or if you conscript him as a grey warden, he turns up a couple more times, one of which to save a bunch of other wardens. Hardly a big choice, but there is some impact to be fair
@@puxtbuck6731 Durge is the canon playthrough; they're the main character of the game and arguably the whole story happens because of them. Tav was a relatively last minute addition for players who wanted a total blank slate character, but Durge is the "Commander Shepherd" of BG3. Now, whether they're evil or redeemed is up to the player.
The flaw is definitely in how they sold themselves. They should have just billed themselves as an action adventure game marketed towards teens. Oh and taken out the sex stuff, it's literally the only "mature" part of the game and doesn't make up for the rest of it.
Killing Karlach in BG3 alone is more evil than anything you can do in Dragon Age: The Veilguard. And it's the least evil thing you can do among other evil things in BG3.
It still has some true RPG elements it just took the hero RPG story of Inquisition and pushed it the A-RPG style and inquisition btw is BioWare’s biggest DA game, look at the direction they went with DA2 as well. So how exactly is what you say true?
@ because the ability to direct your character’s personality through dialogue appears severely limited in DAV, as are the variety of choices your character can make and the consequences that stem from them. I’ll admit that DAI pushed players into a more traditional hero story and that DA2 scrapped character origins for streamlining, but I could still shape how my PC approached situations and select choices that matched the moral code I wanted them to adhere to. That’s what I consider a “true RPG”. BioWare hasn’t always been consistent with delivering impactful player choices, but choice was always central to their design philosophy (Anthem excluded). I haven’t seen evidence of that same level of role-playing in DAV, and even the more positive reviews I’ve seen echo that sentiment.
@@silverscion2144 One good example to look at might be the conclusive choices for the companion quest, they have the most in real change besides the set defined major stuff in the main narrative which ties back in to itself and that is mostly reserved for the final act. The companions you romance in DAVG certainly have the best change, even a character like Neve I strongly dislike has actual depth and range in her VA if you choose to romance. These are the things the new BioWare team needs to learn of going forward. The DAVG do evolve to have more depth as you do their isolated stories but it lacks what inquisition had in which the characters still had depth without exploring any of their personal contents. Inquisition had more choices outright than DAVG had but still most of them are meaningless and there still wasn’t much change in companions. My companions never really were impacted by my choices only the branching ones and they only evolved as you met narrative checkpoints through the game like I said before. It’s 100% an ARPG that could do great with exploring how to rewind those more traditional true RPG elements back into it.
Bg3: genocide a community of men women and children trying to escape hell.. Veilguard: misgender a they them... Wait what am I saying that's way too evil there's no WAY they'd let you do that.
Larian studios giving compliments and applause to Dragon Age Veilguard is like the super successful and well off sibling complimenting their unemployed younger sibling for getting out of bed for once
Veilguard: No player agency. Choices are ultimately meaningless. Bestest friends in fantasy setting simulator with some decent combat sprinkled in. Baldur's Gate 3: Able to kill literally almost anyone you want. Multiple options for how to handle each encounter. Freedom to be any kind of character you want. Unlimited replayability. BG3 seems far more like a descendant of DA:O than Veilguard.
Now, there is no actual need for every choice to have impact. But the fact that you can't even roleplay as an evil character in a fucking roleplaying game is lame. Is there any actual different from murdering someone, murdering then mutilating someone, or mutilating someone then murdering them? In a way no, they're dead no matter what. It's the act itself that can make something from disturbing to absolute disturbing. It's the character implication. Veilguard has non of it.
@@brianestrada1993 gameplay is a big step back imo, in the old games it was way more interactive and engaging, I'd even give it a 4 if I had to compare it with the others. Honestly if they had made a new IP instead of ruining Dragon Age they wouldn't have received as much push back.
@@verandream6675 Dragon Age gameplay was never its selling point, Inquisition for me was so mind-numbingly boring I never managed a full playthrough with all the DLCs. Origins combat is too clunky. DA2 had the best combat because movement became more fluid. Veilguard is ok but early game mage combat feels really clunky. What Veilguard has better than the other games was the ending.
What's sad is that you can be more evil in that game than in this one... Which is hilarious. You sell your friend out and send him to one of the worst prisons in the world in Hogwarts Legacy. But God forbid your character doesn't like Taash.
@@TheForever206 There's no real punishment for being evil with a lot of the choices in BG3 too. Point is you get the option to do evil shit regardless of the outcome; If I want to use the torture curse on someone, I can in Hogwarts Legacy, but Veilguard's devs wouldn't give you that option were it up to them.
@@roberthesser6402Depending on the gravity of the choice your party members can leave you, attack you, permanently die, you can get thrown in jail, have factions turn against you, get higher vendor prices, lose access to certain quest rewards, break your paladin oath. You don't even need a dialogue option to be evil, you can be evil anytime. So you can't say that you don't get punished for being evil in BG3. The more prevalent complaint I've heard is that you don't get rewarded enough for being evil. There is not even a hint of that in DAV. The world is static. The worst thing you could do is punch a guy for not cooperating. But choosing the other option auto-magically makes him immediately cooperate, without failure. So there is 0 challenge in convincing him and the outcome is the same anyway. You can never lose companion approval, only gain it, except in 3-4 main story moments.
Being evil in Balders Gate 3: "You monster. You killed my family and cut open their bodies for a blood ritual in order to summon a demon!" Being evil in Veil-guard: "YOU USED THE WRONG PRONOUNS!"
When people complain about "millenial writing", this is what they mean. They forget that what makes stories intresting is adversity and struggle that characters face, react and overcome. Hard choices that show who this person truly are. Not this.
Because it's written by people who's biggest struggle has been breaking their iPhone screen and they lack imagination to empathize with anything bigger
all of these crap RPGs flops were approaching their finish line after 5-10 year dev cycles when Baldur's Gate 3 released. That's exactly why they were whinging about "expectations"
yup, they saw that game and knew their product was vastly inferior. Instead of try and fix them they gaslight the consumers into thinking what bg3 did was never going to be replicated again because its "too good"
@@supergirlvideoclips894 the concepts that Veilguard is forcing onto the player are based on fallacious premises in reality. That's why people are "malinging" Veilguard - it's a self-insert of neuroticism and malignant narcissism. We dont get to choose as the player or the player character how to interact with that narrative because they force us to be an ally to it. That is not fantasy and that is not roleplay.
@supergirlvideoclips894 whatever you say. Still doesn't change the fact that veilguard isn't even a dragon age game. If it were it's own ip, people wouldn't care that much.
Honestly Origins is so ridiculously overrated, played it a couple of times and the only thing that stood out to me was the how character origin mattered a lot, unlike BG3 which is just as overrated.
Heck, let alone BG3, it can't even compete with Origins, where you can be a goddamn psychopath and murder everyone. To the point that your members can even take you aside and ask what your deal is or if it gets bad enough, just turn on you and try to kill you. It feels weird that your character in Veilguard basically agrees all the time, there's no option to be a dick to anyone.
I've never played Dragon Age or Bioware games, but for those who have: Do you think it would have been better if they just made a hack/slash action game set in the Dragon Age universe rather than a Dragon Age sequel? I expect people to still cringe at the dialogue and the story, but a lot of the criticisms are about the lack of meaningful choices and the superficial RPG elements. Franchises like Star Wars and Warhammer have all sorts of games with different genres like RPG, FPS, RTS, action-adventure, card games, and Star Wars even has Souls-like now. Why can't Dragon Age have a hack/slash that's not a RPG? If they removed the RPG elements, focused on the combat, and gave it a new title that shows it's a spin-off rather a sequel, would the reception have been better?
Super makes no sense for the veilgaurd one. They don't try to argue the dude who is clearly having his mind assaulted guilt. They don't give you a reason his death has any benefits to you or the world. And once you do the good action it's clearly treated as the wrong choice as most every companion has a hissy fit. Ad to the fact all villains are white, which normally isn't a big deal is suddenly a big deal when you see how this game handles everything else.
RPGs are a spectrum. A game with limited RPG mechanics like Cyberpunk can be as satisfying as BG3 and it has advantage of being able to freely delivers a cohesive narrative. Or Disco Elysium one of the most well-written RPGs ever made IMO, it doesn't really have a lot of "choice" per see, but it offers you a lot of role-playing opportunities within certain boundaries. But yeah, the term RPG definitly lost it's meaning in recent years, just because you have a dialogue wheel that allows you to say yes with slightly different tone, doesn't make the game an RPG. Veilguard is action-adventure with RPG elemtns.
It's true that Baldurs Gate 3 gave us a new level to aspire to in games like these. But the issue really is that DA:TV does not even reach the bar of Biowares previous games. Both the Dragon Age series and the Mass Effect Trilogy gave you way more than we have now. You were able to be a jerk on both franchises, make your party member mad at you, kill random characters in scenes etc. But now we have just different levels of nice. Bioware has regressed in terms of their own standard for years now. And it is so sad to see as a fan of their games. It would be a really good video for someone to create, to just show comparisons to the previous games of how much things have changed on this front.
Here is the thing: In Veilguard, you are supposed to save the world, NOT annihilate it!!! So, this is not a good comparison. BG3 is all about micromanaging decisions whereas Veilguard is about some light decision making that are already predetermined...I just don't understand why people cant see games for what they are, instead they are trying to make out Veilguard is somehow bad because its not what they thought it would be!! Personally, i love Veilguard, just as much as i loved BG3 and just because both are RPGs doesn't mean they can/should be compared...two totally different rpg games!
I don't think ppl are necessarily upset that they can't destroy the world, but in the previous DA games, you can be the hero while still being a complete asshole to everyone, even outright deleting your companions. Why only give two choices for the mayor? Why can't you just outright kill him for what he did to the town? Just a lot of decisions feel unimportant bc they couldn't reverse the online elements they previously had. The first big decision to make is literally the same quest either way. You just decide who you want to be friends with more and help them.
10:46 It's hard to even think that Bioware was *trying* to make anything close to a RPG with Veilguard. They clearly gave up and just wanted to make a silly action adventure game with a few branching paths. Branching paths alone are NOT Roleplaying. If somebody thinks branching paths make an RPG then you could say Black Ops 2 is a RPG.
My favorite Evil ending rpg is still Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer DLC. You literally become the immortal embodiment of hunger and devour entire planets until the gods have to band together to "defeat" you (you can't die so you just retreat beyond their reach) and you kill some of them in the process. But yeah BG 3's ending is a close second.
Towards the end when you are crashing Elgar'nan's party in Arlathan with all the cultists Harding is like, "oh that mayor you let go is here, looks like he couldn't resist" and that's it.
Veilguard is like being DMed by a bad DM who is more interested in telling you all about THEIR story, world and character(s) that are all trying to affect and change you, while telling you how you should feel and interact with them. Rather than letting you tell your party's story where you affect/change the world with your own choices and character(s) and letting you come to your own conclusion about how you feel and interact with them. While being railroaded with fake choices that didn't matter in the slightest cause it's not your story. It's theirs. And they let you know and remind you of this constantly.
That’s exactly my thoughts on RPG genre. Since when Elden Ring is considered to be an RPG and one of the greatest?! All it has is a build aspect but that’s is it. Boomer shooters with weapon upgrades mechanics are RPGs too?
I mean, why even bother buying Dragon Age IP when they already have their own medival fantasy IP that allows player go anywhere from "goofing around with friends" to "Hitl3r on steroids"?
The only thing it does is you see the Mayor in the Venatori camp when you're "stealthing" through it. That's it. A companion will comment about how the Mayor couldn't resist the Gods a second time. Well... no shit.
I did a Shadowheart play through that made Dragon Age: Origins (the darkest of the series) look like a picnic on a perfect day. Let's see, murder your parents, bathe in the blood of Inspector Valeria, and give Astarion his vengeance against Szarr (which murders 7007 vampire spawn). Just one of those choices makes the whole story dark. The ability to choose any path was built into the game from the first moment, and unlike other RPG's, you don't have to use the Companions Larian spent years creating. You can just hire mercenaries. In my Shadowheart playthrough Lae'zel's corpse was stuffed in the camp chest after the first long rest and stayed there for the rest of the play through. Groundbreaking work. Truly amazing.
Role Playing quality was set for me with New Vegas (the first RPG i ever beat). The choices for certain quests were so numerous that you can literally sell one of your own companions into slavery to advance a main quest line. Will most players go that route? No but the option is there for those players role playing that kind of character. That's quality role playing design in my opinion. When quests and combat give you multiple options to more fit the role you're trying to play.
If you're a Warden, you can send him to the Wardens for the Joining. He ends up saving a bunch of other people in a side quest later on. I thought that was really cool
I would love a game where you can truly change the outcome of how the world around you reacts with your decisions. BG3 does a lot but I want more! lol. Like if I play a super evil character I'd like the characters around me to start turning evil too, and suggest evil ways to handle things.
Baldurs Gate 3 set a standard for what an RPG should do and offer in 2023. Veilguard released in 2024 and pails in comparison to RPGs released in the 2000s. Its not even an exaggeration. Not only is the original Dragon Age just a better RPG, but id have to say that even the Kotor games were better RPGs then Veilguard is.
Honestly, what I enjoyed most with BG3 was having all these choices at really any given time and not locked behind a moral system. Really gave me the opportunity to be a wolf sheep's clothing villainous protagonist for my first durge run.
Fun fact: in Veilguard, if you are a Grey Warden, you have another choice - to conscript the mayor to the Wardens. The funny thing is though, that the cutscene plays in a manner that your character informs the mayor of his future conscription and transfer to the Weishaupt fortress (which is on another continent), and just turns around and walk away, leaving the mayor in the tentacles. Fade to black
Level 1 evil: "I will not take any side on this." Level 2 evil: "Are you crazy?!" Level 3 evil: "I will leave you here. Now think about what you've done!" Level 4 evil: "You are a meanie! I will stop you in the name of good!"
The dialogue of Vielguard are like people on the salon having a pedicure. Larian really scratch that itch in RPG. Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous by Owlcat Games. You become the Devil himself.
Yeah, choosing a fate of the guy in the very beginning is really equivalent to the end of a fully-written althout silent evil character (which is not the case sinc DA2, what people were excepting of a DA game after Inquisition..?)
Admittedly you *can* find the blighted mayor as an optional boss in Arlathan if you left him to die. Not a major consequence, but it was cool to see that come back like 30 hours later
I thought the inception of "RPG" was literally referring to gameplay mechanics. Choosing your "role" meant a style of gameplay; do you want to play as a 'warrior', a 'rogue', or a 'wizard' for example. These were the "roles" in which you engage with the game and how it affected gameplay, at least originally. I think people eventually ascribed a "choose your own adventure" style of narrative roleplaying to RPGs and started conflating the term with additional concepts and the original meaning of RPG was forgotten.
The only thing i would like to add, is that there's more studious besides Larian, that i would call masters of RPG craft. My favorite is Owlcat studio. I honestly believe in terms of characters and stories they are better then Larian, but they lack in technology department and don't have as much freedom as BG3(but they still have a lot of freedom though). Give them a chance. Especially after the disaster that DAV is. You have 3 amazing games Pathfider Kingmaker, Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous and Warhammer Rouge Trader. Pathfinder WotR is my favorite so far.
Forget BG3 & just compare with previous works. Kotor 1/2, swtor, Origin, DA2, Fallout, Tyranny, ES, etc. So many games arealdy gave ranges of being mean, cruel, comedicly evil, vindictive, straight up malious, pragmatic, cunning, and manipulative. Hell, Persona games at least let you be a wierdo & rude at times. This game doesn't give any of that or allow you to really question things, whether it's other characters or what's been happening, worldbuilding wise... this game is frustrating for so many reasons... It's driving me nuts...
!['Baldur's Gate 3' Is Utterly Tremendous [Work in Progress REVIEW]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LiCfUesJ8qg/mqdefault.jpg)
!['Baldur's Gate 3' Is Utterly Tremendous [Work in Progress REVIEW]](/img/tr.png)
Veil Guard: host a therapy session.
BG3: host your own Eclipse ceremony
Why everyone always drops Eclipse and makes me depressed for the rest of day?
@ lol sorry. It just looks very similar to it in that final scene
@@puxtbuck6731 I know it just lacks PAIN
And Skull Knight who was cool as hell
To me Veil Guard is an Educational game masquerading as a Fantasy game.
GRIFFITHHHHHHHHHHHHH
That moment when you realize Larian gave you the keys to a Brand new Lamborghini with all the bells a whistles but the industry is telling you to be happy with a 2008 Mustang eco boost
And some people are happy with electric cars. BioWare isn’t the Ferrari to Larians Lamborghini it’s going its own path, which is best for the industry.
The game follows the route of God of War over BG3, but you expect it to be like BG3 cause the studio was tied to BG2 but I don’t know why people would begin to compare it that way when you got DA2 and Inquisition and all the people who made BG2+ DAO are long gone and Inquisition outshine those anyway in popularity.
For the first time BioWare truly has an idea what it wants Dragon Age to be, this going forward will be for the best. We have studios like CDPR, Larian and BioWare all doing their own things.
@@Bro-dot-Minus all the things people like about God of War... If Bioware shuts down, it's their own fault for abandoning what made them great, while Larian carried on their legacy. And people always prefer BG3 to Veilguard because BG3 understands it's audience and Veilguard abandoned its audience to chance a fairytale.
That's a disrespect the the 2008 Mustang ecoboost. It's more like a smart fourtwo.
Unfortunately, when you get bad product after tons of investment, it hurts that industry/market and scares away future investors. BG3 was able to resurrect and even push the standards of a genre because they cared about the product, among other things. Bioware trying to be its own thing and figuring itself out has managed to flop twice b2b and is basically on suicide watch with its most beloved franchise mass effect. Saying bioware finally had a direction for dragon age is accurate unfortunately the direction happens to be straight into the ground.@Bro-dot-
@Bro-dot- If I wanted to play a Soyny movie game, I would buy a Soyny movie game. 🤢
I buy a Dragon Age game because it's supposed to be an rpg, and I want to play an rpg.
Even in a normal playthrough there's a bit in BG3 where you can turn a girl's dead husband into a zombie and then flaunt the fact you are keeping him as your thrall.
TBH, she's annoying af...
I am not ashamed to have done that and I was playing as a paragon.
Or break the wand and let her crying. Or give her the wand and let her hang to the false hope of ever get him back again. Or let the hag deal with her; let her die while fighting the hag or simply murder her yourself.
And did I mention her brothers?
Choices, choices...
Which I love for a necromancer run. The fact that these people dared call the gentleman with the pet/son skeleton a necromancer is a sin against all that fantasy represents
I did that in my first playthrough 😂
Literally the first evil option for dark urge (ripping gales hand off and leaving him for dead) is worse than anything in veilguard lol
Hmm.. you don't even need to play the dark urge.. the first decision ever in the game is about choosing to be stupid, but the literal second is about killing, maiming or leaving Us behind. Followed by killing Laezel, killing the comatose people, converting a woman into a mindflayer, then leaving behind or killing Shadowheart.
All in the literal tutorial area.
I think it's more impactful to do it the normal way and just leave him hanging so he whimpers "I'll perish..." as his hand slowly slips back into the void. No Dark Urge blackout there.
@@SamuelCatsy to be quite honest, Gale's tone in this interaction is too cheerful and optimistic as for someone who's about to perish in a void.
@@SamuelCatsy Yes but you have to slap his hand first for comedic effect
the way they interrogated the mayor sounded like a bad fan-made Scooby Doo script
The moment I heard the introduction to the dialogue, I cringed. *Nobody talks like that.* That's how you open a (clunky) conversation with someone you recognize in a coffee shop, not how you start a conversation with a man wrapped by a massive fleshy tentacle. 🤦♀️
Watching Larian carry on Bioware's legacy while Bioware themselves insults their audience and spit on their own legacy has been fascinating.
The biggest irony is that Dragon Age only exists because of Baldur's Gate. Bioware lost the IP but wanted to continue working on it, so they made their own.
@@ayeyuh6920 Bioware did not lose the IP, they gave it up because of how D&D was hard to work whit & would refuse most of their ideas. These ideas where used as the core concept for their own game. A Dungeons & Dragon Age if you will.
@@Kalamir5 It's because Atari acquired the license for Forgetten Realms/D&D from Interplay. I don't remember if they sold it off or if WotC was involved, technically I misspoke, Bioware never had the IP. They worked for/with Interplay at the time.
its not bioware anymore. its just zombiohazard wearing dead bioware skin like a mass effect husk.
@@ayeyuh6920 By the way, Dragon Age is better in everything than Dragon Dungeons as a universe. Larian has not yet created a Dragon Age and Mass Effect level universe. Even Baldurs Gate is a Bioware baby. Therefore, close your mouth and be respectful, your Larian can slide even faster than Bioware, which have created at least 6 iconic games and 2 universes. And Larian has only created one good game and it's an alien universe. Larian still has every opportunity to slide even further than Bioware before they leave the same huge legacy as Canadians
going back to bg3, in act 1 i killed the men harassing auntie ethel. once i got to ethels house i lied to mayrina and said ehtel killed them. didnt change any outcome but the ability to just be an absolute fiend for no reason is why i love it.
Yeah I agree not every option has to lead to a new outcome but at least having the ability to express who this character is compared to another character is so underrated
A big part of playing evil is just making someone feel evil, even if the outcome is the same.
@@Mediadosall Bioware games and most CRPGs have a linear story. Yet it is that illusion of choice and the ability to be a character is what makes a RPG. The outcome may be the same for major plot points, but it's how you act and choose that makes playthroughs different.
Veilguard: leave some guy behind
Bg3: Sacrifice the world to the god of murder so you can get a pat on the head from your dad.
That pat on the head being turned into his perfect thrall.
Veilguard: Make a decision on which city to sacrifice because you can't be in two places at once.
BG3: Be forced into killing Thorne despite doing everything he asked of you because reasons.
@@olsongc8422 BG3: Can kill and sell out all of your companions for one reason or another.
Veilguard: Forced to listen to sermons and can't say no to any of your companions because that's "too mean".
Funny, been playing the game for 41 hours and haen't felt like I've been lectured at or forced to listen to sermons...No more so than when any of the BG3 companions berated me for doing something that they didn't agree with.
Did you know Tadpools are bad, and using them is wrong? I certainly did after the 10th time my companions told me so.
@@olsongc8422 Man, I knew people would say literally anything to defend this game... But all it takes less than 5 minutes to see how bad Veilguard's dialogue is ESPECIALLY compared to BG3. You don't gotta play 40 hours of Veilguard to find out how bad the dialogue really is, all you have to do is look it up. Some lies don't help your case.
Origin "You've done me proud"
Veil guard "Thanks grandad"
Origin "Not you him!"
BG3 (Skates right by) 'Thanks Dragon Age"
2 and Inquisition*Start crying*
The sequel made by a different development company did more justice to Bioware's memory than the game made by the same company (but entirely different team).
@clarencealger8380 I'm going to be honest after these few weeks I'm pretty sure Inquisition fans are the true tourist here.
In BG3 you can literraly wipe Shadowheart memory and gaslight her for not remembering you being lovers before
In DAI you got to judge your enemies and then straight up personally decapitate them because "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword." Veilguard is an embarrassing even directly compared to its own direct prequel.
I mean, you could even decapite your own companion (Blackwall)
This is the number 1 channel for Gandhi lore
I read that as vore.
@@lovelylemonfactory STOP.
Meh, the truth is that Ghandi only acts meek until he gets access to atomic bombs. From that point on, he is all about "an eye for an eye fixes global warming"
@@Imman1s Dark Urge Gandhi, you can't commit sin if you are dead.
@@SubzeroBlack68 durge gandhi, the slightly less evil version of civ gandhi
The most evil choice you can make in Dragon Age Vielguard is basically a Lawful/Chaotic Neutral decision. Baldurs Gate 3 most evil choice is Everyone Dies But You.
Hmm.. technically you can make it so everyone that matter dies, including you (just detonate the orb in the city)
@@Imman1s The orb destroys the city. Dark Urge would literally destroy all life in the entire world. Not sure about him traveling to other world ala Thanos.
End game chapters you must choose who to save and who dies. It’s quite similar tbh just not as dark of aesthetic
DA:O Warden would introduce this Mayor to his closest friend: murderknife.
😂 warden would always pullout the kitchen knife😂
Youre still playing Hero of Ferelden that stops the blight and kills the Archdemon. You cant spread the blight, doom the world or whatever.
No, cage him and let him turn to darkspawn. Then comeback in the mourning to finish him.
London bin knife
@@Valyrael You can find a replacement. Because DAO would actually think about that.
Bioware forsaken the Murder Knife
Larian embraced the Murder Knife.
The problem with Veilguard isn't that it's not BG3, it's that it parades around claiming it's an RPG with a complex narrative and consequential decisions when in reality it doesn't even TRY to have those things.
Yeah like if the game had just been open about the fact that it's an action RPG, more focused on combat and they were moving away from the choices, I'd be like 'fine, not for me but I'm sure someone will like it'. But telling everyone it's a choice heavy RPG now feels like just deception to try and keep old RPG fans on board.
Dragon Age never really let you be evil in any of the games, they're all about being a good person in the wrong place at the wrong time, taking on the mantle of hero and pulling others along with them.
I really don't understand the comparisons to BG3, BioWare hasn't made a game with that range since KOTOR, which was over 20 years ago.
@@Dnote_Z5 You were always a "hero" in DA but you could still have the freedom to disagree, be a bad person, kick out party members, etc. That's what the complaint is about. It's a shallow experience while trying to say that's it not. It doesn't matter id they haven't done it in x amount of years, it's still a a fair criticism of the genre.
@@Dnote_Z5slaughtering an entire dalish clan isn't evil? Or using the anvil to use people souls to turn them into golems
@@Dnote_Z5 You absolutely can do some evil things in DAO. Overall you save the world sure, but you can do some seriously fucked up stuff along the way.
I hated Morrigans entrance so much in DAV - hi im morrigan im here to help.....
For REAL. It's especially annoying since it's been a recurring thing since Origins that Morrigan introduces herself to each protagonist the same way: "Well, well. What have we here?"
It was a throwback that they threw in the garbage, probably because they knew none of the old players would play through this horribly written garbage.
I sent this dude to the Night's Watch, he saved Grey Warden lives due to that. That was the only thing outside of the Dragon attack and the last missions that had any consequence.
Baldur's Gate 3 is the gold standard for future RPGs. Veilguard was after and fell short. I know BG3 isn't something easily repeated, HOWEVER, the gameplay elements are.
@ especially when DA Origins is so clearly an inspiration to the party dynamics of BG3. The camp setup, ambient dialogue, and approval system all feel very reminiscent of that game, and it’s crazy to see a new studio improve on those elements while BioWare fumbles the bag.
It's crazy that game journalists were describing Veilguard as a risen bar and a new standard for RPGs when it's one of the least impressive RPGs in the last few years, maybe even the last decade. It's not even up to par with previous Dragon Age or Mass Effect games. Games like Baldur's Gate and Path Finder are far superior in terms of being an RPG and it's not even close.
I thought you meant the ASOIAF Night’s Watch for a sec lmao
@@BehuraStudio It technically was lol. The Grey Wardens do the same thing as the Night's Watch
BG3 is just an AAA iteration of a good CRPG. Studios that attacked BG3 for setting an unatainable standards are totally ignoring the fact that it can be done cheaper - you keep focus on the core game elements, and you cheap out on voice acting and visual polish. It has been done before BG3, there are CRPGs with, granted - not as deep, but comparable approach. PIllars of Eternity, Tyranny, Pathfinder games, etc. Veilguard took the opposite approach - they kept the eye candy and dropped the core elements, and it bit them in the arse.
You don't even have to compare it to BG3. DAV fails in a comparison against every previous DA game in the series as well. As a narrative-driven rpg, DAV is just woefully lacking in every single way.
Dragon age origins - Until the Grey Wardens came. Men and women from every race, warriors and mages, barbarians and kings, the Grey Wardens sacrificed everything to stem the tide of darkness, and prevailed. It has been four centuries since that victory, and we have kept our vigil. We have watched and waited for the darkspawn to return. But those, who once called us heroes, have forgotten. We are few now, and our warnings have been ignored for too long. It may even be too late, for I have seen with my own eyes what lies upon the horizon. Maker help us all.
Dragon age veilguard- So...I'm non binary.
And there's nothing wrong with a character being non-binary in a Dragon Age game.
What sucks is how badly they tackle it in game.
Luke’s editor deserves a GOLD STAR ⭐️. An hour after Luke’s show is over, and he already has the first video out. Amazing, thanks Bud👍
The bar has always been there though. Maybe BG3 raised it because it was so much more successful than any other RPG. But even previous, massively successful BioWare games had way more RPG elements (DA:O and KoTOR, for instance).
Yup. and even though mass effect was a linear story. It was so well written with great characters to make up for it. even then, mass effect had way more choice
Da:o feels like it belongs in the same series as bg3, datv is a completely different IP cosplaying a fan favourite franchise
I disagree with the "new standard" part, because it isn't new. But sadly a lot of "modern" RPGs have been dumbed down. Bioware used to make great RPGs. Heck, the Baldur's Gate IP was created by them. But they lost apparently all their talent, which has been replaced by people who have no idea what they are doing. 🙁
This! Yes!! Louder for the people at the back.
This is NOT a new standard, it's exactly what games used to be!
All Larian did is keep their standards in place.
Well said, RPGs just got dumbed down in general and BG3 showed that it can still be done and be polished.
Exactly. Baldur's Gate 3 didn't set a new standard, it simply returned to the old standard that had been abandoned by everyone else for many years. An actual "Return to form" if you will.
@@amannamedsquid313 I'd argue BG3 was a cut above the rest of the rpgs ever made. There's so many things you can do in that game that you can't in any others. New Vegas comes kinda close. RPGs like tw3 and Cyberpunk are more linear pre-made characters, yet still amazing games. I've never played a game with more choice and consequense and player freedom before or since BG3. And if there is one i'd like to know lmao
@bmbrowns1778 bg3 is that way because of current day technology and the budget Larian had for this game, early access feedback, etc. You can't compare it to an RPG from 2009, you can't even compare it to their previous RPG games (dos and dos 2). Look for similar games in the future, not in the past.
There is literally no Conflict anywhere. When you choose what City to protect, i Chose Antiva which is against Neve. Aside from the fact that the City is filled wit blood and corpses, and you apparently cant access the Shadow Dragons anymore, Neve seemed to only be kinda mad or more slightly annoyed at this fact and went away for the time you get the last new crew members. And during banter oh my god. Even when there is potential for Conflict and some insults, nada. They vague post some statement that could offend the other party, then the other one does the same, then they agree that both sides isnt so bad.
Veilguard, to me, is like a really cool AI made picture. Pretty to look at, but with no depth or meaning.
The problem isn't how it is compared to BG3, nor how it compares to other DA (well not true it matters a lot lol) ... the real issue is that Veilguard ain't even a rpg. It's obvious it's the remains of some failed Online game/live service or even mobile game. It even got the trademark artstyle. No wonder choices don't really matter, besides the ending chapter, since they'd be basically providing something similar to Avengers, Suicide Squad or Destiny. No wonder puzzles ain't puzzles but just buttons to push to open a path and a tedious timesink. No wonder the backgrounds while pretty , feel designed like Overwatch maps. No wonder the gameplay is so basic, the whole combat and combo system was likely designed to be like Anthem, something where in theory each player teammates would use the same effects which detonates with each other. No wonder the companion don't even have an health bar, proper IA, nor real impact and damage on the fight , they weren't supposed to exists, and take the place of online players ... And then you've got the writing and dialogues, which would be crap even for an online service anyway, that one can't be explained
From all the things I've heard and seen of both games
The problem isn't so much that DA didn't meet or exceed the bar of BG3
It's that it doesn't seem like it even really tried or that they pretended to try (giving the player choices, but the outcomes for most of them seemingly being the same)
I mean Veilguard didn't even meet the bar of DA2
Oh no, it's worse.
98% of the things you did in the last 3 games don't matter anymore. Suddenly, it's not one of the franchises' key features. Also, some of the established lore gets retconned to fit the new story, so there's noticeable contradictions.
@@ashleydavis5559 Yeah I know I was just stating the fact that Veilguard did worse then DA2 which is acknowledged as the worst DA game due to the fact that 70% of the game was cut during development.
Veilguard did worse than a game that was only 30% of a game.
@@bradleyedson8596 I'm actually tempted to replay the series before I finish Veilguard just for the nostalgia.
@@ashleydavis5559 I tried too but good luck playing origins on steam
Man having my half elf dark urge rogue betray the grove was the most evil thing ever. The dialogue was perfect.
the mayor shows up late game in a side quest that you dont need to do as a darkspawn... your character mentions its the mayor and thats literally it.
Or if you conscript him as a grey warden, he turns up a couple more times, one of which to save a bunch of other wardens.
Hardly a big choice, but there is some impact to be fair
@@DM-vo2keWait dude joins Wardens? Ouch Simon can't take break from being redeemed and take to Wardens in DA series
the concept of the Dark Urge alone is so genius
@@Bioshyn agreed
@@Noxthedunmeryea it’s amazing. It also seems to me like the canon playthrough. I think they’ve kinda said it wasn’t their intention but to me it is
@puxtbuck6731 doing the dark urge makes you more of the main character of the story because your back story effects the story and characters.
It just follows the other two games.
@@puxtbuck6731 Durge is the canon playthrough; they're the main character of the game and arguably the whole story happens because of them. Tav was a relatively last minute addition for players who wanted a total blank slate character, but Durge is the "Commander Shepherd" of BG3. Now, whether they're evil or redeemed is up to the player.
BG3 and Elden Ring made gaming industry crying out loud and its delicious
The flaw is definitely in how they sold themselves. They should have just billed themselves as an action adventure game marketed towards teens. Oh and taken out the sex stuff, it's literally the only "mature" part of the game and doesn't make up for the rest of it.
Killing Karlach in BG3 alone is more evil than anything you can do in Dragon Age: The Veilguard. And it's the least evil thing you can do among other evil things in BG3.
I have every one of my BG3 saves backed up for like 10 different endings just in case I want to experience them again.
Ah man I thought RPG stood for Ready to Pass Gas
A DA game that’s not a true RPG is like a FIFA game using American football rules.
It still has some true RPG elements it just took the hero RPG story of Inquisition and pushed it the A-RPG style and inquisition btw is BioWare’s biggest DA game, look at the direction they went with DA2 as well. So how exactly is what you say true?
@ because the ability to direct your character’s personality through dialogue appears severely limited in DAV, as are the variety of choices your character can make and the consequences that stem from them. I’ll admit that DAI pushed players into a more traditional hero story and that DA2 scrapped character origins for streamlining, but I could still shape how my PC approached situations and select choices that matched the moral code I wanted them to adhere to. That’s what I consider a “true RPG”. BioWare hasn’t always been consistent with delivering impactful player choices, but choice was always central to their design philosophy (Anthem excluded). I haven’t seen evidence of that same level of role-playing in DAV, and even the more positive reviews I’ve seen echo that sentiment.
@@silverscion2144 One good example to look at might be the conclusive choices for the companion quest, they have the most in real change besides the set defined major stuff in the main narrative which ties back in to itself and that is mostly reserved for the final act.
The companions you romance in DAVG certainly have the best change, even a character like Neve I strongly dislike has actual depth and range in her VA if you choose to romance. These are the things the new BioWare team needs to learn of going forward. The DAVG do evolve to have more depth as you do their isolated stories but it lacks what inquisition had in which the characters still had depth without exploring any of their personal contents.
Inquisition had more choices outright than DAVG had but still most of them are meaningless and there still wasn’t much change in companions. My companions never really were impacted by my choices only the branching ones and they only evolved as you met narrative checkpoints through the game like I said before.
It’s 100% an ARPG that could do great with exploring how to rewind those more traditional true RPG elements back into it.
Bg3: genocide a community of men women and children trying to escape hell..
Veilguard: misgender a they them...
Wait what am I saying that's way too evil there's no WAY they'd let you do that.
Apparently when you misgender someone in The Veilguard you drop down and give them 20.
PULL A BARVE RIGHT NOW YOU BIGOT
Larian studios giving compliments and applause to Dragon Age Veilguard is like the super successful and well off sibling complimenting their unemployed younger sibling for getting out of bed for once
Veilguard: No player agency. Choices are ultimately meaningless. Bestest friends in fantasy setting simulator with some decent combat sprinkled in.
Baldur's Gate 3: Able to kill literally almost anyone you want. Multiple options for how to handle each encounter. Freedom to be any kind of character you want. Unlimited replayability.
BG3 seems far more like a descendant of DA:O than Veilguard.
Because it is.
Now, there is no actual need for every choice to have impact. But the fact that you can't even roleplay as an evil character in a fucking roleplaying game is lame.
Is there any actual different from murdering someone, murdering then mutilating someone, or mutilating someone then murdering them? In a way no, they're dead no matter what. It's the act itself that can make something from disturbing to absolute disturbing. It's the character implication. Veilguard has non of it.
all these comments making me want to do another play-through god help me
Yes I want and expect my story choice driven game to be on bg3s level, or at minimum try to be close, fail guard didn't even try
A better comparison would be to feature the most "evil" choice in DAV vs the least evil choice in BG3
Gameplay 6/10
Graphics 7/10
Dialogue 2/10
Breaking immersion 10/10
Hand holding 10/10
Gameplay is more of a ok 5/10
@@brianestrada1993 gameplay is a big step back imo, in the old games it was way more interactive and engaging, I'd even give it a 4 if I had to compare it with the others. Honestly if they had made a new IP instead of ruining Dragon Age they wouldn't have received as much push back.
@@verandream6675 Dragon Age gameplay was never its selling point, Inquisition for me was so mind-numbingly boring I never managed a full playthrough with all the DLCs. Origins combat is too clunky. DA2 had the best combat because movement became more fluid. Veilguard is ok but early game mage combat feels really clunky. What Veilguard has better than the other games was the ending.
They should have given up on full rpg and went action game instead if they're gonna be this mid with story/dialogue.
Characters 3/10
Legacy 1/10
Replayability 2/10
Choices 3/10
Seems like the good and bad options in Hogwarts Legacy. The bad choices were slight inconveniences at best. 😂
What's sad is that you can be more evil in that game than in this one... Which is hilarious. You sell your friend out and send him to one of the worst prisons in the world in Hogwarts Legacy. But God forbid your character doesn't like Taash.
I mean Unforgivable Curses tho
@@BehuraStudioBut theres no type of real punishment for learning or using them. 😅
@@TheForever206 There's no real punishment for being evil with a lot of the choices in BG3 too. Point is you get the option to do evil shit regardless of the outcome; If I want to use the torture curse on someone, I can in Hogwarts Legacy, but Veilguard's devs wouldn't give you that option were it up to them.
@@roberthesser6402Depending on the gravity of the choice your party members can leave you, attack you, permanently die, you can get thrown in jail, have factions turn against you, get higher vendor prices, lose access to certain quest rewards, break your paladin oath. You don't even need a dialogue option to be evil, you can be evil anytime.
So you can't say that you don't get punished for being evil in BG3. The more prevalent complaint I've heard is that you don't get rewarded enough for being evil.
There is not even a hint of that in DAV. The world is static.
The worst thing you could do is punch a guy for not cooperating. But choosing the other option auto-magically makes him immediately cooperate, without failure. So there is 0 challenge in convincing him and the outcome is the same anyway.
You can never lose companion approval, only gain it, except in 3-4 main story moments.
Today I learned that Ghandi would have probably played a Bard.
Being evil in Balders Gate 3: "You monster. You killed my family and cut open their bodies for a blood ritual in order to summon a demon!"
Being evil in Veil-guard: "YOU USED THE WRONG PRONOUNS!"
crazy to even compare those 2, it's like a turd next to a peanut butter sandwich
All i will say is, there is a video called "being a psychopath in dragon age Origin" its 2hrs long, and its worth every minute
When people complain about "millenial writing", this is what they mean. They forget that what makes stories intresting is adversity and struggle that characters face, react and overcome. Hard choices that show who this person truly are.
Not this.
Because it's written by people who's biggest struggle has been breaking their iPhone screen and they lack imagination to empathize with anything bigger
More specific millenial women writing
@@nesciusplayground no need to be sexist.
Soy latte beta manlets are just as capable of writing and directing preachy cringe as any woman.
@@nesciusplayground no need to be sехist. millenial sоуboуs are just as capable of writing cringe as any woman
@@deptusmechanikus7362 Nah this triggered behavior because someone said something stupid is pretty soyboy.
It's sad honestly. The sterility of the game is insane. They promise you RPG and you get this.
The mayor will show up as a blighted monster later on in a quest. So there is at least some reactivity to this choice at least.
Yawn... Oh sorry... Uhmmm... wow... that is like really dark...
If your a Grey Warden you can send him to the Wardens. If so, he ends up saving a squad of Wardens.
all of these crap RPGs flops were approaching their finish line after 5-10 year dev cycles when Baldur's Gate 3 released. That's exactly why they were whinging about "expectations"
yup, they saw that game and knew their product was vastly inferior. Instead of try and fix them they gaslight the consumers into thinking what bg3 did was never going to be replicated again because its "too good"
Seeing the news about veilguard made me replay origins. And honestly, fuck veilguard.
The news is incorrect. People are maligning the game.
@@supergirlvideoclips894 the concepts that Veilguard is forcing onto the player are based on fallacious premises in reality. That's why people are "malinging" Veilguard - it's a self-insert of neuroticism and malignant narcissism.
We dont get to choose as the player or the player character how to interact with that narrative because they force us to be an ally to it.
That is not fantasy and that is not roleplay.
@supergirlvideoclips894 whatever you say. Still doesn't change the fact that veilguard isn't even a dragon age game. If it were it's own ip, people wouldn't care that much.
Honestly Origins is so ridiculously overrated, played it a couple of times and the only thing that stood out to me was the how character origin mattered a lot, unlike BG3 which is just as overrated.
@@supergirlvideoclips894People don't like a bad game. In other shocking news, this floor is made of floor.
A friendship simulator. Well said.
People showing him veilguard - “This is only one of many gray area choices”
- 2 choices and your party whines about it.
Heck, let alone BG3, it can't even compete with Origins, where you can be a goddamn psychopath and murder everyone. To the point that your members can even take you aside and ask what your deal is or if it gets bad enough, just turn on you and try to kill you. It feels weird that your character in Veilguard basically agrees all the time, there's no option to be a dick to anyone.
I've never played Dragon Age or Bioware games, but for those who have:
Do you think it would have been better if they just made a hack/slash action game set in the Dragon Age universe rather than a Dragon Age sequel?
I expect people to still cringe at the dialogue and the story, but a lot of the criticisms are about the lack of meaningful choices and the superficial RPG elements. Franchises like Star Wars and Warhammer have all sorts of games with different genres like RPG, FPS, RTS, action-adventure, card games, and Star Wars even has Souls-like now. Why can't Dragon Age have a hack/slash that's not a RPG?
If they removed the RPG elements, focused on the combat, and gave it a new title that shows it's a spin-off rather a sequel, would the reception have been better?
Even in the quirky fable games you could choose to be good or evil and your appearance would start to change overtime depending on your actions.
I needed a palate cleanser after finishing veilguard
Veilguard does not have an evil option, it only has Stoic options.
Super makes no sense for the veilgaurd one. They don't try to argue the dude who is clearly having his mind assaulted guilt. They don't give you a reason his death has any benefits to you or the world. And once you do the good action it's clearly treated as the wrong choice as most every companion has a hissy fit. Ad to the fact all villains are white, which normally isn't a big deal is suddenly a big deal when you see how this game handles everything else.
BG3 : Vicking great hall feast
The Veilguard : Doll tea party in the guarden
RPGs are a spectrum. A game with limited RPG mechanics like Cyberpunk can be as satisfying as BG3 and it has advantage of being able to freely delivers a cohesive narrative. Or Disco Elysium one of the most well-written RPGs ever made IMO, it doesn't really have a lot of "choice" per see, but it offers you a lot of role-playing opportunities within certain boundaries. But yeah, the term RPG definitly lost it's meaning in recent years, just because you have a dialogue wheel that allows you to say yes with slightly different tone, doesn't make the game an RPG. Veilguard is action-adventure with RPG elemtns.
It's true that Baldurs Gate 3 gave us a new level to aspire to in games like these. But the issue really is that DA:TV does not even reach the bar of Biowares previous games. Both the Dragon Age series and the Mass Effect Trilogy gave you way more than we have now. You were able to be a jerk on both franchises, make your party member mad at you, kill random characters in scenes etc.
But now we have just different levels of nice.
Bioware has regressed in terms of their own standard for years now. And it is so sad to see as a fan of their games.
It would be a really good video for someone to create, to just show comparisons to the previous games of how much things have changed on this front.
hahah, came for the RPG commentary, stayed for the Ghandi going ham to “5318008” upside down on a calculator story
Luke is in his 'drag DA Veilguard' phase and I'm all here for it.
"Mom, i want Baldurs Gate 3!"
"We have BG3 at home"
BG3 at home: Veilguard.
Mayor of the village, pleading, sounds like a rinse repeat of the flooded village in Inquisition.
EverythIng leading ip to the scene with the mayor is the most on rails experience EVER. You dont work for it. You just walk through a guided path.
Here is the thing: In Veilguard, you are supposed to save the world, NOT annihilate it!!! So, this is not a good comparison.
BG3 is all about micromanaging decisions whereas Veilguard is about some light decision making that are already predetermined...I just don't understand why people cant see games for what they are, instead they are trying to make out Veilguard is somehow bad because its not what they thought it would be!!
Personally, i love Veilguard, just as much as i loved BG3 and just because both are RPGs doesn't mean they can/should be compared...two totally different rpg games!
I don't think ppl are necessarily upset that they can't destroy the world, but in the previous DA games, you can be the hero while still being a complete asshole to everyone, even outright deleting your companions. Why only give two choices for the mayor? Why can't you just outright kill him for what he did to the town? Just a lot of decisions feel unimportant bc they couldn't reverse the online elements they previously had. The first big decision to make is literally the same quest either way. You just decide who you want to be friends with more and help them.
The most evil thing you can do in Failguard is call someone by the wrong pronoun.
10:46 It's hard to even think that Bioware was *trying* to make anything close to a RPG with Veilguard. They clearly gave up and just wanted to make a silly action adventure game with a few branching paths. Branching paths alone are NOT Roleplaying. If somebody thinks branching paths make an RPG then you could say Black Ops 2 is a RPG.
My favorite Evil ending rpg is still Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer DLC. You literally become the immortal embodiment of hunger and devour entire planets until the gods have to band together to "defeat" you (you can't die so you just retreat beyond their reach) and you kill some of them in the process. But yeah BG 3's ending is a close second.
Mask of the betrayer is one of the best DLC's to an rpg ever made I love it so much xD
Towards the end when you are crashing Elgar'nan's party in Arlathan with all the cultists Harding is like, "oh that mayor you let go is here, looks like he couldn't resist" and that's it.
Veilguard is like being DMed by a bad DM who is more interested in telling you all about THEIR story, world and character(s) that are all trying to affect and change you, while telling you how you should feel and interact with them. Rather than letting you tell your party's story where you affect/change the world with your own choices and character(s) and letting you come to your own conclusion about how you feel and interact with them. While being railroaded with fake choices that didn't matter in the slightest cause it's not your story. It's theirs. And they let you know and remind you of this constantly.
That’s exactly my thoughts on RPG genre. Since when Elden Ring is considered to be an RPG and one of the greatest?! All it has is a build aspect but that’s is it. Boomer shooters with weapon upgrades mechanics are RPGs too?
Larian buys the Dragon Age IP. Everyone’s happy. Not that it will ever happen but one can hope…
I mean, why even bother buying Dragon Age IP when they already have their own medival fantasy IP that allows player go anywhere from "goofing around with friends" to "Hitl3r on steroids"?
damn making the companions walk off the edge in bg3 was cold and terrifying
Bg3 carrying DAOs torch is wildly poetic
The only thing it does is you see the Mayor in the Venatori camp when you're "stealthing" through it. That's it. A companion will comment about how the Mayor couldn't resist the Gods a second time. Well... no shit.
If you leave him, he comes back as a side quest blighted boss. That's it.
I did a Shadowheart play through that made Dragon Age: Origins (the darkest of the series) look like a picnic on a perfect day. Let's see, murder your parents, bathe in the blood of Inspector Valeria, and give Astarion his vengeance against Szarr (which murders 7007 vampire spawn). Just one of those choices makes the whole story dark. The ability to choose any path was built into the game from the first moment, and unlike other RPG's, you don't have to use the Companions Larian spent years creating. You can just hire mercenaries. In my Shadowheart playthrough Lae'zel's corpse was stuffed in the camp chest after the first long rest and stayed there for the rest of the play through. Groundbreaking work. Truly amazing.
Role Playing quality was set for me with New Vegas (the first RPG i ever beat). The choices for certain quests were so numerous that you can literally sell one of your own companions into slavery to advance a main quest line. Will most players go that route? No but the option is there for those players role playing that kind of character. That's quality role playing design in my opinion. When quests and combat give you multiple options to more fit the role you're trying to play.
If you're a Warden, you can send him to the Wardens for the Joining. He ends up saving a bunch of other people in a side quest later on. I thought that was really cool
A mayor that betrayed and killed his entire town is a very original story never heard of in the context of Dragon Age.
I would love a game where you can truly change the outcome of how the world around you reacts with your decisions. BG3 does a lot but I want more! lol. Like if I play a super evil character I'd like the characters around me to start turning evil too, and suggest evil ways to handle things.
Baldurs Gate 3 set a standard for what an RPG should do and offer in 2023. Veilguard released in 2024 and pails in comparison to RPGs released in the 2000s. Its not even an exaggeration. Not only is the original Dragon Age just a better RPG, but id have to say that even the Kotor games were better RPGs then Veilguard is.
Honestly, what I enjoyed most with BG3 was having all these choices at really any given time and not locked behind a moral system. Really gave me the opportunity to be a wolf sheep's clothing villainous protagonist for my first durge run.
“Friendship simulator” 😂
Fun fact: in Veilguard, if you are a Grey Warden, you have another choice - to conscript the mayor to the Wardens. The funny thing is though, that the cutscene plays in a manner that your character informs the mayor of his future conscription and transfer to the Weishaupt fortress (which is on another continent), and just turns around and walk away, leaving the mayor in the tentacles. Fade to black
Check out wayfinder again!! The game deserves a second look!
That Baldur's Gate ending looks like the origin of a Souls world.
Level 1 evil: "I will not take any side on this."
Level 2 evil: "Are you crazy?!"
Level 3 evil: "I will leave you here. Now think about what you've done!"
Level 4 evil: "You are a meanie! I will stop you in the name of good!"
The dialogue of Vielguard are like people on the salon having a pedicure. Larian really scratch that itch in RPG.
Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous by Owlcat Games. You become the Devil himself.
Yeah, choosing a fate of the guy in the very beginning is really equivalent to the end of a fully-written althout silent evil character (which is not the case sinc DA2, what people were excepting of a DA game after Inquisition..?)
Admittedly you *can* find the blighted mayor as an optional boss in Arlathan if you left him to die. Not a major consequence, but it was cool to see that come back like 30 hours later
I thought the inception of "RPG" was literally referring to gameplay mechanics. Choosing your "role" meant a style of gameplay; do you want to play as a 'warrior', a 'rogue', or a 'wizard' for example. These were the "roles" in which you engage with the game and how it affected gameplay, at least originally. I think people eventually ascribed a "choose your own adventure" style of narrative roleplaying to RPGs and started conflating the term with additional concepts and the original meaning of RPG was forgotten.
The only thing i would like to add, is that there's more studious besides Larian, that i would call masters of RPG craft. My favorite is Owlcat studio. I honestly believe in terms of characters and stories they are better then Larian, but they lack in technology department and don't have as much freedom as BG3(but they still have a lot of freedom though). Give them a chance. Especially after the disaster that DAV is. You have 3 amazing games Pathfider Kingmaker, Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous and Warhammer Rouge Trader. Pathfinder WotR is my favorite so far.
Forget BG3 & just compare with previous works. Kotor 1/2, swtor, Origin, DA2, Fallout, Tyranny, ES, etc. So many games arealdy gave ranges of being mean, cruel, comedicly evil, vindictive, straight up malious, pragmatic, cunning, and manipulative. Hell, Persona games at least let you be a wierdo & rude at times. This game doesn't give any of that or allow you to really question things, whether it's other characters or what's been happening, worldbuilding wise... this game is frustrating for so many reasons... It's driving me nuts...
BG 3 is now in my wishlist
The guy from the main quest comes back as a demon in a side quest if u leave him instead of saving him lol