BTW we worked on this battery on and off over the course of about a week. Not too much to tackle, and we'll be duplicating this battery again in a couple weeks when more batteries come in. The Chinese bike is bout to get freakin SENT Thanks for watching, boys!
Hi, I had modified a passenger ICE vehicle into lithium ion battery driving EV, with my tech team. If you are interesting to make a EV using current ICE vehicle architecture, I am willing to share my experience.
in my research you should not hot glue the cells together and it is best to have spacers to separate the cells for heat dissipation when making a high performance battery. the use of thermally conductive potting compounds is advised. the more the battery can stay at a proper operating temp the better the performance and life. think about a weak cooling system on a car. runs great when you first start it up but once it gets heated up its struggling and ultimately decreases the life of the vehicle
@@Man-go-Everywhere agreed. Not unless you want a burn, loss of finger or death. I am lazy and didnt do the amp math but i am gonna guess it could be enough to kill someone. Oh just remebered, the ring could short out the battery and cause an explosion.
Man, you can't imagine how much I appreciate how you broke down calculating the gauge of wire needed (also applied to nickel strip for the amp per cell). I was pretty confident, but this made It so much more clear for me
I learned more _CLARIFIED_ information from this single video than may be 5 or 6 other videos combined. I am very thankful to u guys for making it easier to understand the aspects involved and the way to combine the batteries, and what the outcome will be. I am _finally_ feeling far more confident in building my own - and am _VERY_ glad I happened upon this video. _THANK YOU!!_
@@TheInja IMO this video is very bloated, redundant and unnecessary. One can do this in five minutes without annoying, useless and way to loud music. What you've done: 1.: showed the aliexpress page of cells with an extremly shaky camera without going into detail. This should have been in the firs 10 seconds, definitely not at the end. 2.: tell (but not shown!) about the nickel strips and the fake nickel plated strips. I commend for the education value here! This could be a 30 second segment. 3.: told about welding instead of soldering. That's 10 seconds. 4.: go into the basics of S and P of a battery. At least 3 times, very unnecessary. Explaining S and P stuff is one minute, tops. 5.: calculated necessary battery size for a given project, that's cool, another minute should be in an informative video. 6.: explaining a bit of BMS stuff, that's cool! 7.: made the battery pack itself. That could be another one minute timelapse, that's the only part in your video I'm quite happy with. Except the ludicrously generic, most annoying music, ever. Wrapping up the battery is good! 8.: tested the bike, yay! What you haven't done: 1.: show the BMS on any site you bought is from. 2.: for point 5: Amps for a given 3000W motor is fine and all, but you failed to mention the peak loads can be way higher. Other things to correct: 1.: your battery build is very unsafe! a.: you claim you have tested all the capacity of your cells, but it's not shown how it was managed. Yes, a 2 way charger shot is nice and all, but with that it would take many weeks to charge/discharge each cell and somehow note down the actual capacities. b.: you have not shown or even done cell arranging! You have to be careful making your P blocks from selected cells to achieve same capacity for each P block. Failing that will lead to overdischarge is some P blocks. That will lead to range decrease very soon. c.: battery holders are a thing for a reason! One just not glue together cells like that! Alternatively, you may create a rig that holds the cells together while welding them. I think it's a reasonable request. Okay, so if anything in the video is there I mentioned it isn't, then, mea culpa. It's too long to watch the whole thing. I know, this isn't a recent video, maybe your latest ones are way better. Or at least I hope so.
@@Sekir80 you obviously didn't watch any of it to learn anything then. I think your comment is unnecessary. We're just trying to help people and you're here complaining 💀
@@TheInja I liked stuff in your video and even tried to point those out. My complaint is the information density. (and the atrocious music). And I commend you are getting back to me, thank you!
One thing I've heard about making packs like this is to not glue the cells directly together as they might rub into each other over time so they might cause a severe short when damaged. Instead you could use a cell holder thing to keep the cells slightly apart.
@@jeffreybrewer9637 well the air gaps are pointless once the battery is sealed anyway 😂 hot glue isn't a problem, battery spacers just make larger batteries
@@eastwood111 oh i might check out some of his other vids then, shame that this is the one the algorithm seems to promote so heavily. maybe he should put a pinned comment in or something idk
OMG Thank you so much for this video!! I've probably watched 200 videos on battery builds and BMS explanations and all of them combined didn't teach me what I've learned in this video and I'm only at 26:24 right now! I'm building a 20s 8p for my Ebike and you helped me so much!
I just finished watching BenjaminNelson's electric bike conversion. That series and this one is one of my favorites so far. I hope more people create series like these so we can get even more looks on how different people tackle different (or same) E-motorcycle problems.
I have a 10kw motor with a 72v80ah battery pack on my bike. It does close to 130kph but the bms will shut down at high loads on sport mode, so it's unreliable to ride. I haven't ripped out the cells yet but I suspect the bms is not rated for the load. I'll rip the pack apart soon and test everything, and I will most likely upgrade the BMS to a (300a) Ant BMS with bluetooth so I can display cell details on a small android device mounted near the cluster. I'm not an expert in batteries so I'll learn more as I go plus this video was a great watch. Thanks for the well documented details @Inja and @lordchris - awesome build!
Maybe this video is amazing for those who don't know about building batteries but for us i saw many mistakes and risks on that build but great job. There will always an improvement for every experience.
Hey guys. :3 I would recommend using “fish” paper between your series cells. The fish paper absorbs a little bit of vibration and can also prevent abrasion between the thin film of the cells causing a short and possible fire. Id also recommend using the paper to protect the nickel cell connections and to wrap your cell before you shrink wrap for extra durability and rubustness. Hot glue is ok for assembly but will weaken over time due to temp. Fluctuations and normal wear.
I agree with the fish paper but I don't think if it would really be too bad for the glue. Hot glue can handle about 160 F (melts at about 250 F) and the cells really should never be above 140ish.
Thanks for the more in depth video. There are few safety concerns though. You should have insulated the positive terminals with fishpaper rings, otherwise the nickel strips may damage the top insulation over time due to vibration and lead to a severe short. Also recommended is to put fishpaper between all p groups for the same reason. Lastly, the balance wires should be layed out nicely and without crosses, otherwise they might short as well over time.
Agreed - it's a bad idea to build a battery like this with no insulation between P groups. I once opened a battery and found that the insulation had come apart on one of the cells, so now I'm always quite careful about this.
Agreed- Especially considering how much heat will be generated with the small wire sizes and not enough meat on the series connections. This is a very dangerous battery!
@@Badgermilk-zc2wy Yes, 3000/72 = ~42 Amps, that's a lot of current for that wire, not a whole lot of margin there, and the cells alternating like that and directly touching basically puts too much trust in the thin shrink wrapping around the cells. It will work initially but over the longer run this is a recipe for very bad trouble. One single bad cell in this pack and the whole thing will go up.
Oh, and I only just noticed that the BMS is sitting on top of a thin piece of tape bridging some 30V worth of cells, that's a short waiting to happen as well because the BMS edge will wear through the tape and/or the cell wrap.
OMG THANK YOU! This finally answered my question on how to wire up at the end!! I found a million guides on how to do everything else but not how to wire discharge direct from battery and charge to the bms properly. Now i just have to figure out this stupid proprietary connector that the battery case uses but otherwise I'm set! This battery was like 500 dollars for a 48v 13ah. Nuts. 2 had died at this point because they didn't wire them up safely so i refused to do it. I checked all the cells in the 2 dead batteries and lucky lucky they all seem good! Cheap batteries but hey now I have a 52v battery with WAY more range to boot! I just have to figure out how to wire everything up with the new controller and all that. To clarify this is an ebike not a motorcycle or anything.
Just a couple of things 1/ those cables look way too small to handle that kind of power you are using. 2/ you don't seem to have any kind of cooling gaps, so when you start to draw or charge at higher rates the batteries may get very hot. Cooling can make a huge difference to how the batteries perform and last.
Can I actually connect a 12S battery pack with a 13S battery pack in parallel? I think the BMS of the 12S stops loading when it is full while the 13s will still charge up. And when I've run the 13s empty enough, the Bms from the 12s starts up again and both batteries discharge, right?
Great tutorial on battery builds! Battery price on Alibaba has gone up as of 3/20/21 from $921 to $981 for the largest order! Plus the shipping was free and now its $23.
you need to add insulator between the groups because there's a risk of fire in there if the wrap they have rubbed and makes a big short, unstoppable fire
thank you, there's some good explanations about the parallel/serial setup in the video (I am about to make a simple 12 volt 3P/3S 18650 solar powered outdoor night ligthing setup)
Good choice in adding the extra cells, i had a similar issue, I wanted to do 72v or 20s 6p with the space i had or a 14s 9p i chose the latter as battery longevity is more important than my top speed, and the lower voltage let me drop the current per cell. So i have a slower bike, 70kmh instead of 90kmh but this version pulls really really fricken hard. Like 0-60kmh in just about 8seconds, also this is a bicycle so that's Plenty.
The Inja- let me know if it burns or not. Something about leaving a small gap for every battery and temperature 🌡 to set-up for the batteries for the cold or hot days
I'm trying to charge the 20S battery from my EUC separately without the mother board connections. it's got two small (black and red) wires but they have no voltage. I have the original 84V charger. Can I just connect to the battery output and charge it that way? I think the battery might be only 1P
Nice battery build ,discharge leads look a little small though,, I’m running a 3000w motor , however at full throttle it pulls over 8000w , maybe double up on your discharge leads , reduce bottleneck , great video 👍
Everyone saying lol, I'm mechanic i learned alot from this one video about the lithium ion.batts one smart fella so not going question, even my lipos with my rc cars cheesy soft high gauge wire that gets hot not even copper so I'm betting even tho thin wire bc its copper .
At 8000w ,it’s pulling over 100amps ,I used 2 x 10awg silicone wire , with a 200amp Bluetooth BMS ,the BMS monitors power drain ,state of charge and balancing
@@TheInja I would use 8awg or at least 10 awg but I don't know how much max you are pulling. Those Anderson connectors are rated high voltage and 6 to 8awg
Sorry man I wasn't trying to sound negative you did a great job in the video and you give a great explanation. If you do a similar video in future, can you give some detail into wiring the bms. Thanks 😊
Can a connect two battery packs one chinese syncpower the other an lg battery pack together they are both 52volts the syncpower is 18ah while the lg is 23ah. I need more mileage so i need to connect an external battery pack to my scooter's internal battery
isolate between serials with adhesive paper! and temperature sensor imo is for battery temp measurement, not bms, as bms have integrated temperature monitoring already
I agree. I had discharge wires 4x as large on my RC helicopter running a 12S setup lol. Higher volts will drop amp load, but you are still shooting alot of watts over those wires.
Multiply the number of cells connected in parallel to the amp output of each individual to get the total current. 12 cells x 20a = 240a capability. Even at 10a each that's 120amps.
Did you add copper wire on series connection or i am wrong. If somebody can help me i dont know how much thickness i need for my battery pack. I will use 16S 7P. Max dischrage of one cell is 10A. I suppose i need 10mm×0.15mm and add copper wire on series connection
Hey guys very impressive watching this sped up you two look like robots. That would be something you guys need to do is start a company with robots doing a lot of that and you guys can start collecting some moooolaaaa. I’m sure someone out there is trying to find away to do that.I’m sure you would need some people to do different things to make those batteries. But I’m sure a robot could do a lot of the connections and glueing and laying down the nickel strips. If you guys do that you better let me know so I can get my cut. Lol. It’s great to have two doing all that work. That makes it nice to takes turns doing the different jobs for building such a massive battery. Can’t wait for more videos guys. I love motorcycle so this is so awesome making a E- cycle can’t really call it a motorcycle now. I have a stealth bomber and did some customization to it and put on some after market parts on it. It looks like a dirt bike with pedals with the fenders an all. It’s pretty cool I’m going to make a video of it real soon. Just waiting for the weather to get warmer. It’s been really cold and cloudy and raining where I live. Awesome job fellas very nicely done and well thought out. Ride safe and always wear your riding gear and always wear gloves and a helmet. Take care and God Bless.
Great job and interesting video. Unfortunately what I can't get past, is that ever one of those cells and welds is a protentional point of failure. I'd much prefer larger cell and less welds.
How many miles can you get out this battery I made a 48v this way and battery dint last 10 minute's so I tuck my old battery apart and copied how they made it and its spot on I'm going to have a go at making one of these 72v out drill batteries
Very satisfying. But I think it's not good idea to stick batteries together when they are in series connection without extra Insulation. When the batteries become hot their plastic cover can be damaged and then the short circuit risk is very high. Don't know maybe I'm too cautious about it.
Hey brother, I have the same BMS but no wiring diagram for it!! Can you please send me how you wired it please?!?! There are two black wires and I have no idea how to wire it to my batteries!!
Well, I think I'm going to do it. Build my dream battery for my solar bike. Thanks for the advice. Should I waste a cell playing with the welding settings?
Most your links lead to nothing and probably because the links are 4 years old. But what I would like to ask you guys did the seller send you a spec sheet prior to buying? Because I'm having trouble with every store on Aliexpress that I've asked. Might be a problem with translation, I don't know. But if you was given a spec sheet prior to buying, how did you ask for it because everyone there acts like they have no idea what I'm asking for. Thanks. Great video btw. The explanation on the build couldn't of been said any better. Made perfect sense.
Hi I know this is 3 years old and the link for the batteries is no longer available. I’m just curious about the shipping it seems the shipping cost almost as much as the batteries so $200 for the batteries and $150-$200 to ship the batteries did you have this issue? Ty for your time
Which charger are you using to test the capacity of the 18650 cells. Could you send a link to the charger , I am planning on making a go kart using these cells.
have you guys ever messed with a surron 60volt battery?i have one that needs a bms and seem to locate/source a suitable replacement.i believe the cells are capable of 10a output.
Those cells are for laptop and other slow drain devices. You’re running a risk of heat induced battery damage and possibly fire drawing the amps needed for an e-bike. Not to mention and electric motorcycle.
They explained what the rated amp draw of the batteries were so no, they’re not running that risk. They’ve already taken the drain rate calculation into account.
@@jsl6155 I checked the specs from the links provided. They are at risk but it’s not my ass that’s going to get burnt. Not like I know what I’m talking about or anything. I only have a 3.5second 0-60mph 12kw nominal hub motor Emmo Proton with 72ah capable of 800 continuous amps. Nah. No clue.
Hi. Thanks for this great tutorial video. I was wondering if its easier to build what you did here using 9v batteries. What are the obstacles that you will come across with building a pack with 9v batteries?
Thanks a lot guys you showed me quite a bit it’s not like I can do this like that but you have shown me some tricks for a little experiments I wanna try thank you very much excellent job it looks so cool I mean by that it looks fun
I know it’s been ages now, but how did this battery hold up with that BMS configuration? Thinking about doing the same thing, bypassing it for discharging
Great video. May I ask you a question? I have a device using INR 18650 batteries. But I cannot find them on the market; I only find 18650 batteries (comparable voltage and mah). Can I use these ones for my device? Thanks
Great build and great inspirational videos. 👍. I just recently rescued and abandoned electric sport bike style QSmotor 72v 2000w 180613 652004. The bike was in a small collision so it I will to purchase the shell, right side handle bar, right side brake handle and most definitely a charger. Any hints on where begin?
@@TheInja Do they each have their own BMS? My battery isn't charging & I'm thinking about piggybacking the main charging cables to my other one & charging it off of it just to get the voltage up to working by itself for charging? Thoughts?
If you do that, each cell risks getting out of balance in the pack not connected to the BMS. The only way to connect them would be to connect each series group as well as the main positive and negative lines. Otherwise the voltage will be the same in the whole pack, but not in each group
It looks like you've got twice as many parallel connections as you need and you've put your series connections across the top of them. The parallel connections don't carry much current, so you can tac them on as the last step. You should have spot welded the series connections first, and soldered before you spot welded.
@@CHASEJIMMYMN I am soo sorry for bothering you with my comment, I had no idea asking a question not pointed toward you, would make it feel like I'm bothering you. My dear apologies sir..
How did this battery welder work out for you? I bought a small one that burned up in about 2 welds and I don't want to burn more money on another cheap one or paying 3x what I need to. Thanks!
So did you ever get it to top out and find out how much longer it runs now? Now that you have the idea down with all the room you can parallel more batteries to get more capacity and all that like he is saying. I spose eventually if you go nuts it would get really heavy and out of balance.
Well looking forward to any updates. When I bought this house I had two unregistered cars, but they had comp insurance so if someone broke the windows or something while they were parked I could get it covered, plus all I have to do to activate driving insurance again is call my agent and it's dirt cheap. I called him and drove both cars to new house with expired plates but temporary legal road insurance. I had no issues but I also drove each on a one lane each way street. Our regular driver running interference behind each car. 5 miles to the new house after sitting 7 years. My Dart the accelerater pump was bad so bogged off the line but otherwise no problem. The 71 Scamp I forgot to hook up the kick down spring so it only went to second gear but made it fine and I figured it out later. I spose if you want to live dangerously you could do similar. Get insurance and no tags and take a quick banzai run depending on how it works where you're at and how crazy you feel😉
Very nice video, would love to hear how this is holding up. I'm thinking you're asking quite a bit for those wiring sizes and nickel strip over long durations.
Now you could ad more bat. to the bike. Or ad an 3kW onboard charger you can plug in with every houshold plug. so you can coute everywhere for zero cost.;)
How much amp is the controller pulling from the battery? If it's 70 amp the nickel strips you applied on the battery isn't enough...need at least 3 or 4 layers to connect those batteries together... Not only do the batteries themselves generate heat but also the nickel connections themselves generate heat and also cause to restrict current flow which then heats up the battery more. With the thicker and better conducting metal it will allow the current to flow freely and minimize heat.
Thank you soooooo much for the video. It really answered a question I had about how many amps a battery pack can deliver when fully built. I am working on a 16s 13p battery for my Super73 R. Thank you sooo much for your explanation🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾. I definitely subscribed
BTW we worked on this battery on and off over the course of about a week. Not too much to tackle, and we'll be duplicating this battery again in a couple weeks when more batteries come in. The Chinese bike is bout to get freakin SENT
Thanks for watching, boys!
Hi, I had modified a passenger ICE vehicle into lithium ion battery driving EV, with my tech team.
If you are interesting to make a EV using current ICE vehicle architecture, I am willing to share my experience.
in my research you should not hot glue the cells together and it is best to have spacers to separate the cells for heat dissipation when making a high performance battery. the use of thermally conductive potting compounds is advised. the more the battery can stay at a proper operating temp the better the performance and life. think about a weak cooling system on a car. runs great when you first start it up but once it gets heated up its struggling and ultimately decreases the life of the vehicle
The Inja Remove the ring on your finger.!
Well explained and good build demonstration
@@Man-go-Everywhere agreed. Not unless you want a burn, loss of finger or death. I am lazy and didnt do the amp math but i am gonna guess it could be enough to kill someone. Oh just remebered, the ring could short out the battery and cause an explosion.
I pay you would you do the same and send to me ? And what would be price ?
Man, you can't imagine how much I appreciate how you broke down calculating the gauge of wire needed (also applied to nickel strip for the amp per cell). I was pretty confident, but this made It so much more clear for me
9
I learned more _CLARIFIED_ information from this single video than may be 5 or 6 other videos combined. I am very thankful to u guys for making it easier to understand the aspects involved and the way to combine the batteries, and what the outcome will be. I am _finally_ feeling far more confident in building my own - and am _VERY_ glad I happened upon this video. _THANK YOU!!_
Our pleasure!
@@TheInja IMO this video is very bloated, redundant and unnecessary. One can do this in five minutes without annoying, useless and way to loud music.
What you've done:
1.: showed the aliexpress page of cells with an extremly shaky camera without going into detail. This should have been in the firs 10 seconds, definitely not at the end.
2.: tell (but not shown!) about the nickel strips and the fake nickel plated strips. I commend for the education value here! This could be a 30 second segment.
3.: told about welding instead of soldering. That's 10 seconds.
4.: go into the basics of S and P of a battery. At least 3 times, very unnecessary. Explaining S and P stuff is one minute, tops.
5.: calculated necessary battery size for a given project, that's cool, another minute should be in an informative video.
6.: explaining a bit of BMS stuff, that's cool!
7.: made the battery pack itself. That could be another one minute timelapse, that's the only part in your video I'm quite happy with. Except the ludicrously generic, most annoying music, ever.
Wrapping up the battery is good!
8.: tested the bike, yay!
What you haven't done:
1.: show the BMS on any site you bought is from.
2.: for point 5: Amps for a given 3000W motor is fine and all, but you failed to mention the peak loads can be way higher.
Other things to correct:
1.: your battery build is very unsafe!
a.: you claim you have tested all the capacity of your cells, but it's not shown how it was managed. Yes, a 2 way charger shot is nice and all, but with that it would take many weeks to charge/discharge each cell and somehow note down the actual capacities.
b.: you have not shown or even done cell arranging! You have to be careful making your P blocks from selected cells to achieve same capacity for each P block. Failing that will lead to overdischarge is some P blocks. That will lead to range decrease very soon.
c.: battery holders are a thing for a reason! One just not glue together cells like that! Alternatively, you may create a rig that holds the cells together while welding them. I think it's a reasonable request.
Okay, so if anything in the video is there I mentioned it isn't, then, mea culpa. It's too long to watch the whole thing.
I know, this isn't a recent video, maybe your latest ones are way better. Or at least I hope so.
@@Sekir80 you obviously didn't watch any of it to learn anything then. I think your comment is unnecessary. We're just trying to help people and you're here complaining 💀
@@TheInja I liked stuff in your video and even tried to point those out. My complaint is the information density.
(and the atrocious music).
And I commend you are getting back to me, thank you!
One thing I've heard about making packs like this is to not glue the cells directly together as they might rub into each other over time so they might cause a severe short when damaged. Instead you could use a cell holder thing to keep the cells slightly apart.
I'm no genius, but hot glue is not a good idea. I like the plastic connector that leaves insulated air gaps.
3d print the battery grid you need you can shape it to fit into the size of bike frame .
@@doooofus
Well this video is a couple of years old, don’t believe Curt hot glue’s battery cells anymore.
@@jeffreybrewer9637 well the air gaps are pointless once the battery is sealed anyway 😂 hot glue isn't a problem, battery spacers just make larger batteries
@@eastwood111 oh i might check out some of his other vids then, shame that this is the one the algorithm seems to promote so heavily. maybe he should put a pinned comment in or something idk
You two work very well together and this has been a very informative series.
OMG Thank you so much for this video!! I've probably watched 200 videos on battery builds and BMS explanations and all of them combined didn't teach me what I've learned in this video and I'm only at 26:24 right now! I'm building a 20s 8p for my Ebike and you helped me so much!
I just finished watching BenjaminNelson's electric bike conversion. That series and this one is one of my favorites so far. I hope more people create series like these so we can get even more looks on how different people tackle different (or same) E-motorcycle problems.
I have a 10kw motor with a 72v80ah battery pack on my bike. It does close to 130kph but the bms will shut down at high loads on sport mode, so it's unreliable to ride. I haven't ripped out the cells yet but I suspect the bms is not rated for the load. I'll rip the pack apart soon and test everything, and I will most likely upgrade the BMS to a (300a) Ant BMS with bluetooth so I can display cell details on a small android device mounted near the cluster. I'm not an expert in batteries so I'll learn more as I go plus this video was a great watch. Thanks for the well documented details @Inja and @lordchris - awesome build!
Easy fix- bypass the BMS for discharge, and only use it for charging.
Maybe this video is amazing for those who don't know about building batteries but for us i saw many mistakes and risks on that build but great job. There will always an improvement for every experience.
Hey guys. :3 I would recommend using “fish” paper between your series cells. The fish paper absorbs a little bit of vibration and can also prevent abrasion between the thin film of the cells causing a short and possible fire. Id also recommend using the paper to protect the nickel cell connections and to wrap your cell before you shrink wrap for extra durability and rubustness. Hot glue is ok for assembly but will weaken over time due to temp. Fluctuations and normal wear.
I agree with the fish paper but I don't think if it would really be too bad for the glue. Hot glue can handle about 160 F (melts at about 250 F) and the cells really should never be above 140ish.
Thanks for the more in depth video. There are few safety concerns though. You should have insulated the positive terminals with fishpaper rings, otherwise the nickel strips may damage the top insulation over time due to vibration and lead to a severe short. Also recommended is to put fishpaper between all p groups for the same reason. Lastly, the balance wires should be layed out nicely and without crosses, otherwise they might short as well over time.
Agreed - it's a bad idea to build a battery like this with no insulation between P groups. I once opened a battery and found that the insulation had come apart on one of the cells, so now I'm always quite careful about this.
Agreed- Especially considering how much heat will be generated with the small wire sizes and not enough meat on the series connections. This is a very dangerous battery!
@@Badgermilk-zc2wy Yes, 3000/72 = ~42 Amps, that's a lot of current for that wire, not a whole lot of margin there, and the cells alternating like that and directly touching basically puts too much trust in the thin shrink wrapping around the cells. It will work initially but over the longer run this is a recipe for very bad trouble. One single bad cell in this pack and the whole thing will go up.
Oh, and I only just noticed that the BMS is sitting on top of a thin piece of tape bridging some 30V worth of cells, that's a short waiting to happen as well because the BMS edge will wear through the tape and/or the cell wrap.
Lord Curt is the boss. I love the collaboration and the support you provide the inja projects. You sir are a master at your craft.
I got a exploding Vape battery ad In the beginning of this video, LOL.
Lol
Learnt so much from this video, thank you 💆🏼♂️🔥
Man, I would hire you guys too increase the range of my 40mile 100volt electric unicycle.
Fascinating
Thanks for the nice breakdown of the process, enjoyed the results as much as your making it.
The Inja: Made in China fixed in America.
Bro I may just steal this
@@TheInja 🤣
Hey man, what are your thoughts on using fuses to stop batteries from catching fire?
Apple: designed I'm claofinra made in china
OMG THANK YOU! This finally answered my question on how to wire up at the end!! I found a million guides on how to do everything else but not how to wire discharge direct from battery and charge to the bms properly. Now i just have to figure out this stupid proprietary connector that the battery case uses but otherwise I'm set!
This battery was like 500 dollars for a 48v 13ah. Nuts. 2 had died at this point because they didn't wire them up safely so i refused to do it. I checked all the cells in the 2 dead batteries and lucky lucky they all seem good! Cheap batteries but hey now I have a 52v battery with WAY more range to boot! I just have to figure out how to wire everything up with the new controller and all that.
To clarify this is an ebike not a motorcycle or anything.
Just a couple of things 1/ those cables look way too small to handle that kind of power you are using.
2/ you don't seem to have any kind of cooling gaps, so when you start to draw or charge at higher rates the batteries may get very hot.
Cooling can make a huge difference to how the batteries perform and last.
This guy is a wealth of knowledge...
Thank you so much I learned a lot from this video opposite of other video which are hard to understand!
great cant get enough from this build.
I love your show.So informative and very helpful .keep up the excellent clean work.
Thx for making vids of you enjoying yourself 😊☀️
really good explanation of what is happening here
Can I actually connect a 12S battery pack with a 13S battery pack in parallel?
I think the BMS of the 12S stops loading when it is full while the 13s will still charge up.
And when I've run the 13s empty enough, the Bms from the 12s starts up again and both batteries discharge, right?
Great tutorial on battery builds! Battery price on Alibaba has gone up as of 3/20/21 from $921 to $981 for the largest order! Plus the shipping was free and now its $23.
shipping to canada is $200 and the biggest pack costs $1,425... WTF.
you need to add insulator between the groups because there's a risk of fire in there if the wrap they have rubbed and makes a big short, unstoppable fire
thank you, there's some good explanations about the parallel/serial setup in the video (I am about to make a simple 12 volt 3P/3S 18650 solar powered outdoor night ligthing setup)
Good choice in adding the extra cells, i had a similar issue, I wanted to do 72v or 20s 6p with the space i had or a 14s 9p i chose the latter as battery longevity is more important than my top speed, and the lower voltage let me drop the current per cell. So i have a slower bike, 70kmh instead of 90kmh but this version pulls really really fricken hard. Like 0-60kmh in just about 8seconds, also this is a bicycle so that's Plenty.
also, how does the motor "pull".? makes it sound like the energy is coming from the motor rather than the battery.
Made me aware of what the quality of workmanship that can be expected buyi g new.
Thanks
Im sticking to gas power motors..
The Inja- let me know if it burns or not. Something about leaving a small gap for every battery and temperature 🌡 to set-up for the batteries for the cold or hot days
Wow.. the guy explained everything I wasn’t clear on in the first two minutes of the video lol
I'm trying to charge the 20S battery from my EUC separately without the mother board connections. it's got two small (black and red) wires but they have no voltage. I have the original 84V charger. Can I just connect to the battery output and charge it that way? I think the battery might be only 1P
How come you don't use a fuse at the cable between the controller and battery before connecting to avoid shorts?
we did! watch the other videos!
Nice battery build ,discharge leads look a little small though,, I’m running a 3000w motor , however at full throttle it pulls over 8000w , maybe double up on your discharge leads , reduce bottleneck , great video 👍
Appreciate it!
Everyone saying lol, I'm mechanic i learned alot from this one video about the lithium ion.batts one smart fella so not going question, even my lipos with my rc cars cheesy soft high gauge wire that gets hot not even copper so I'm betting even tho thin wire bc its copper .
What size should they be at 8000watts?
At 8000w ,it’s pulling over 100amps ,I used 2 x 10awg silicone wire , with a 200amp Bluetooth BMS ,the BMS monitors power drain ,state of charge and balancing
I was watching part of this on my break. I work at a Lowes.
the wires you have are not thick enough for those connectors and your application.
What size should we have used?
@@TheInja I would use 8awg or at least 10 awg but I don't know how much max you are pulling. Those Anderson connectors are rated high voltage and 6 to 8awg
is it necessary to weld every serial connection if you've already welded every parallel line?
We did it to minimize resistance!
Only thing I would have done differently is add a layer of capton tape great job
so you're using a spot welder to avoid heating the batteries with an iron, but you're get glueing it?
Thanks for the great video very educational
Sorry man I wasn't trying to sound negative you did a great job in the video and you give a great explanation.
If you do a similar video in future, can you give some detail into wiring the bms. Thanks 😊
Can a connect two battery packs one chinese syncpower the other an lg battery pack together they are both 52volts the syncpower is 18ah while the lg is 23ah. I need more mileage so i need to connect an external battery pack to my scooter's internal battery
So if the CDR is 20a for each cell is that 20a * 13 total 260a max discharge of the battery?
isolate between serials with adhesive paper! and temperature sensor imo is for battery temp measurement, not bms, as bms have integrated temperature monitoring already
For the current you are going to draw from the pack, you might want to take a closer look at wire sizing. Those look pretty undersized.
Those cells start to overheat at 20a soo it's enough for this pack
Way under sized make sure BMS connection are all same length too 😂
I agree. I had discharge wires 4x as large on my RC helicopter running a 12S setup lol. Higher volts will drop amp load, but you are still shooting alot of watts over those wires.
Multiply the number of cells connected in parallel to the amp output of each individual to get the total current. 12 cells x 20a = 240a capability. Even at 10a each that's 120amps.
Did you add copper wire on series connection or i am wrong. If somebody can help me i dont know how much thickness i need for my battery pack. I will use 16S 7P. Max dischrage of one cell is 10A. I suppose i need 10mm×0.15mm and add copper wire on series connection
Great video guys, so much helpful information absolutely loved it. just one question, how is the degradation of the pack?
Hey guys very impressive watching this sped up you two look like robots. That would be something you guys need to do is start a company with robots doing a lot of that and you guys can start collecting some moooolaaaa. I’m sure someone out there is trying to find away to do that.I’m sure you would need some people to do different things to make those batteries. But I’m sure a robot could do a lot of the connections and glueing and laying down the nickel strips. If you guys do that you better let me know so I can get my cut. Lol. It’s great to have two doing all that work. That makes it nice to takes turns doing the different jobs for building such a massive battery. Can’t wait for more videos guys. I love motorcycle so this is so awesome making a E- cycle can’t really call it a motorcycle now. I have a stealth bomber and did some customization to it and put on some after market parts on it. It looks like a dirt bike with pedals with the fenders an all. It’s pretty cool I’m going to make a video of it real soon. Just waiting for the weather to get warmer. It’s been really cold and cloudy and raining where I live. Awesome job fellas very nicely done and well thought out. Ride safe and always wear your riding gear and always wear gloves and a helmet. Take care and God Bless.
Great job and interesting video. Unfortunately what I can't get past, is that ever one of those cells and welds is a protentional point of failure. I'd much prefer larger cell and less welds.
How many miles can you get out this battery I made a 48v this way and battery dint last 10 minute's so I tuck my old battery apart and copied how they made it and its spot on I'm going to have a go at making one of these 72v out drill batteries
how mAH is the the battery that use?and the name of the battery thanks.
What do you use to charge the pack?
I wanna kno what you charge the new pack with .. I need help with that
Very satisfying. But I think it's not good idea to stick batteries together when they are in series connection without extra Insulation. When the batteries become hot their plastic cover can be damaged and then the short circuit risk is very high. Don't know maybe I'm too cautious about it.
Shouldn't use glue, when hardens it's prone to cracking and should use VHB tape.
Hey brother, I have the same BMS but no wiring diagram for it!! Can you please send me how you wired it please?!?! There are two black wires and I have no idea how to wire it to my batteries!!
How are you charging this pack? I want to make a pack like this too but the charging solution is eluding me
You can slowly watch the food and drinks disappearing from the counter as the days progress...gotta keep the gainz up while making moves
big fax
Well, I think I'm going to do it. Build my dream battery for my solar bike. Thanks for the advice. Should I waste a cell playing with the welding settings?
Most your links lead to nothing and probably because the links are 4 years old. But what I would like to ask you guys did the seller send you a spec sheet prior to buying? Because I'm having trouble with every store on Aliexpress that I've asked. Might be a problem with translation, I don't know. But if you was given a spec sheet prior to buying, how did you ask for it because everyone there acts like they have no idea what I'm asking for. Thanks. Great video btw. The explanation on the build couldn't of been said any better. Made perfect sense.
Yeah, they had different spec models to choose from. Ordered a higher spec, got a lower spec anyway.
what is that black wire on that bms glued to it is?
Hi
I know this is 3 years old and the link for the batteries is no longer available. I’m just curious about the shipping it seems the shipping cost almost as much as the batteries so $200 for the batteries and $150-$200 to ship the batteries did you have this issue?
Ty for your time
Car audio guys build crazy huge lithium battery packs.
They have moved to LTO tech now.
Whats is the updated trust battery resseler ?
what about batter expansion? They will be change size because of heat, cold and usage, didnt they?
batteries do not expande or contract....
Which charger are you using to test the capacity of the 18650 cells. Could you send a link to the charger , I am planning on making a go kart using these cells.
Oh, sure! I'll add the link when I can
have you guys ever messed with a surron 60volt battery?i have one that needs a bms and seem to locate/source a suitable replacement.i believe the cells are capable of 10a output.
Is this a different video? Looks the same as the last one?
More explanations I think. Close to the last one.
Yeah, I shrunk this whole thing down to like 5 minutes last video, but same footage. Just wanted to show the entire build 👌🏽
Those cells are for laptop and other slow drain devices. You’re running a risk of heat induced battery damage and possibly fire drawing the amps needed for an e-bike. Not to mention and electric motorcycle.
They explained what the rated amp draw of the batteries were so no, they’re not running that risk. They’ve already taken the drain rate calculation into account.
@@jsl6155 I checked the specs from the links provided. They are at risk but it’s not my ass that’s going to get burnt. Not like I know what I’m talking about or anything. I only have a 3.5second 0-60mph 12kw nominal hub motor Emmo Proton with 72ah capable of 800 continuous amps. Nah. No clue.
No air gap between cells?? It may or may not explode but performance would definitely get hampered. The inner cells with run hotter than outer ones.
Awesome! I need a 13.5+ 21a capacity. Now I’m thinking about building one. Debating 50ah or 100ah+.
Hi. Thanks for this great tutorial video.
I was wondering if its easier to build what you did here using 9v batteries. What are the obstacles that you will come across with building a pack with 9v batteries?
Thanks a lot guys you showed me quite a bit it’s not like I can do this like that but you have shown me some tricks for a little experiments I wanna try thank you very much excellent job it looks so cool I mean by that it looks fun
how much do you charge to build a battery for 8000w motor or 12000w motor
i need 72v 49ah 5000w with 150ah + bms how much for enduro frame
Thanks. Very informative and well presented
I know it’s been ages now, but how did this battery hold up with that BMS configuration? Thinking about doing the same thing, bypassing it for discharging
Great so far! But only put a few hundred miles on it.
@@TheInja Awesome to hear!
I loved how much your insurance coverz😂
Great video. May I ask you a question? I have a device using INR 18650 batteries. But I cannot find them on the market; I only find 18650 batteries (comparable voltage and mah). Can I use these ones for my device? Thanks
Inja what is your take on using fuses on Individual cells so they don't catch on fire?
will a 60 amp 72v bms work thats 20s ofc?
Why are nominal voltages either 3.6v or 3.7v. I have Samsung 18650 cells (2500mAh) that are labeled 3.6v.
Alternator with motor connection is good or Bad sir please reply me sir.
Great build and great inspirational videos. 👍. I just recently rescued and abandoned electric sport bike style QSmotor 72v 2000w 180613 652004. The bike was in a small collision so it I will to purchase the shell, right side handle bar, right side brake handle and most definitely a charger. Any hints on where begin?
Did you guys conned each 72volt battery with a BMS directly to the controller? I'm trying to understand how you'll charge them and use them all???????
No, all three packs are connected in parallel into one BMS, so they act as one large battery pack.
@@TheInja Do they each have their own BMS? My battery isn't charging & I'm thinking about piggybacking the main charging cables to my other one & charging it off of it just to get the voltage up to working by itself for charging? Thoughts?
If you do that, each cell risks getting out of balance in the pack not connected to the BMS. The only way to connect them would be to connect each series group as well as the main positive and negative lines. Otherwise the voltage will be the same in the whole pack, but not in each group
Hey what gauge wire did you use for your main pos and neg to go to the bms???
It looks like you've got twice as many parallel connections as you need and you've put your series connections across the top of them. The parallel connections don't carry much current, so you can tac them on as the last step. You should have spot welded the series connections first, and soldered before you spot welded.
Could you explain this a little bit more, I am still struggling with the battery
Lol nerd 🤓
@@CHASEJIMMYMN I am soo sorry for bothering you with my comment, I had no idea asking a question not pointed toward you, would make it feel like I'm bothering you. My dear apologies sir..
@@CHASEJIMMYMN nah this is a channel of a guy who made a motorcycle by himself and he was givinf him some feedback and I was interested
@@diegojosephia just a joke my guy! This is all stuff I don't quite understand so don't be so serious lol
No fish paper between series?
How did this battery welder work out for you? I bought a small one that burned up in about 2 welds and I don't want to burn more money on another cheap one or paying 3x what I need to. Thanks!
So did you ever get it to top out and find out how much longer it runs now? Now that you have the idea down with all the room you can parallel more batteries to get more capacity and all that like he is saying. I spose eventually if you go nuts it would get really heavy and out of balance.
We'll be duplicating this pack in the near future, so we'll see how it goes. I'll be testing range when I get the bike registered!
Well looking forward to any updates. When I bought this house I had two unregistered cars, but they had comp insurance so if someone broke the windows or something while they were parked I could get it covered, plus all I have to do to activate driving insurance again is call my agent and it's dirt cheap. I called him and drove both cars to new house with expired plates but temporary legal road insurance. I had no issues but I also drove each on a one lane each way street. Our regular driver running interference behind each car. 5 miles to the new house after sitting 7 years. My Dart the accelerater pump was bad so bogged off the line but otherwise no problem. The 71 Scamp I forgot to hook up the kick down spring so it only went to second gear but made it fine and I figured it out later. I spose if you want to live dangerously you could do similar. Get insurance and no tags and take a quick banzai run depending on how it works where you're at and how crazy you feel😉
Very nice video, would love to hear how this is holding up. I'm thinking you're asking quite a bit for those wiring sizes and nickel strip over long durations.
How much amperes is one of those 18650 cells?
the page to the link for the batteries is dead do you have a replacement link to the same seller?
Now you could ad more bat. to the bike. Or ad an 3kW onboard charger you can plug in with every houshold plug. so you can coute everywhere for zero cost.;)
How much amp is the controller pulling from the battery? If it's 70 amp the nickel strips you applied on the battery isn't enough...need at least 3 or 4 layers to connect those batteries together... Not only do the batteries themselves generate heat but also the nickel connections themselves generate heat and also cause to restrict current flow which then heats up the battery more. With the thicker and better conducting metal it will allow the current to flow freely and minimize heat.
Where can we get the battery diagram? I think you said power point you have.
Lord Curt made it, so it's not available on the internets
Thank you soooooo much for the video. It really answered a question I had about how many amps a battery pack can deliver when fully built. I am working on a 16s 13p battery for my Super73 R. Thank you sooo much for your explanation🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾. I definitely subscribed