If you get one, put 200-300 rounds through it before you judge the trigger. Mine started out around 10lbs and now is around 6lbs. Tons of others have reported the same thing. Great gun though, accurate, good fit and finish. Holosun red dot that comes with it is pretty darn nice. Ergonomic, 100% recommend.
@@bannedbycommieyoutube5time920 Mine was solid and still is, however the first 100-200 rounds my extractor was digging into the brass a little bit, it eventually deburred itself and now no more brass flacks in the action lmao.
Having the FN, M&P, and the PSA 5.7 models all together showed me how easy it was to just make the 5.7 comfortable in the hand. The FN felt way too thin, but the PSA grip ends up feeling full in the hand and COMFORTABLE. PSA having all kinds of affordable and different types of slides/parts available makes it a better contender.
I have the FN and it fits great in my hand. But can see where it wouldn't fit a lot of hands comfortably. I just hope we see ammo prices drop back down.
I’ve always thought civilian 5.7 pistols were a bit of a gimmick but this video has me questioning my assumptions, great video and great info as always
I think maybe the FN version at a Large was too much for most shooters. Ruger and PSA having a version under $500 is a huge incentive to explore the platform.
Really hoping that 5.7 becomes popular enough for the round to go down in price. This would be a fun firearm to train with if the round was cheaper to shoot.
I’m with you there! You can get ammunition from anywhere from $0.40-$0.50 a round shipped currently if you look online. That’s down significantly from a year ago.
@@bannedbycommieyoutube5time920 If you look deep enough down the rabbit hole, you can find it for less than .50c a rnd. It is coming down though. 5.7x28 was officially adopted into NATO standards last year. As such, more manufacturers are making it.
i havent used it but it looks like that aac brand psa carries is a decent price for 5.7. hell they even make 300BO for not terrible prices. as long as the quality control & accuracy is good i imagine the increase in sales might entice better prices over time.
AR-57 (P90 50-rd mag, eject through classic mag well) and CMMG Resolute (32-rd mag in classic mag well) already exist. Not seeing a good way to double-feed off the P90 mag, though.
@@oso1165 its fun to shoot a caliber in a rifle that's ineffective and more expensive? interesting point of view. you can shoot 300bo supers and subs for a little cheaper than 5.7. you can shoot 556 far cheaper. we have different ideas of fun for sure
Hey Karl, if you want to try the Smith 5.7, I've got one in inventory. I tapped the gas port so you can disable the gas assist. Suprise, the slide doesn't open without gas assist. About 50 rounds through it. Interesting recoil impulse. Happy to loan it.
@otm646 only practical reason would be a little extra velocity, or perhaps autoloaders aren't allowed. I did it out of professional curiosity. I thought maybe it would cycle without, and the gas system was only to get around glock's patent on rotary delayed pistols.
@@observed00Rotating barrel lockups were first designed by John Browning in 1897, and any patents have long since expired. That's why Beretta, Steyr, Colt, and Boberg have all used them to varying degrees of success.
@TheHobodemon Patents are what they are, and glock has a recent patent on a particular rotary locking design which looks exactly like this Smith, sans the gas system.
@@observed00 If you're referring to European Patent EP3800434A1, that patent has nothing to do with how the gun functions. That patent's for a barrel swap system using a threaded tensioning nut and dovetails. B1 of that block of patents describes a gas system, but one that uses a gas block rather than a barrel sleeve. I can't find anything referencing a rotating barrel lockup, which I'm sure will be a relief for whoever at Beretta designed the PX4 back in the 80s back when they were calling it the 8000 Cheetah
If I was a security guard or something, 5.7 would be my every day carry. I always think about the unfortunate security guard who was not able to stop the Buffalo shooter because of his armor plates. The security guard sadly lost his life.
5.7x28mm outside of the specialty rounds won't generally go through soft plates. This would be better against hard plates because you can just go for the face accurately instead.
This video pushed me over the edge on buying the extended mags for my psa rock. I have been concealed carrying the rock for almost a year now with the black dragon fang ammunition and feel confident that I can do so with the extended mags as well. I also highly recommend the HS507C-X2 optic for its ease of use due to the vulcan reticle being very friendly for new shooters in the red dot game. Love this gun and I am happy with its performance cant wait to buy more accessories for it in the future.
If I may ask - why the Black Dragon Fang? Never heard of that stuff before now, it kinda looks like it'd just poke a small hole. Not designed for expansion or anything? Is it for 3A penetration?
@@calvinreeder7580 It is designed to tumble creating massive wound cavities when it dumps its energy into someone. It's average muzzle velocity I have observed is 2070 fps though it is advertised at 2200 out of a 5.7 handgun. I feel like it is the best 5.7 ammo for defensive use and that is why I use it.
The various ballistics tests of the 5.7 I have seen, including several of Paul Harrell's meat targets, suggest that the cartridge is sufficient for defensive use. Not overwhelmingly effective but it seems like it will penetrate deep enough while causing enough tissue disruption to have a decisive effect. The cost of the ammo is the real drawback.
People often forget that it was used in the Ft. Hood mass shooting where the terrorist, Major Nidal, killed a large number of fellow soldiers with it including several who attempted to charge him. So it most definitely is a man-stopper. The SS197SR round in particular, does very impressive wound channels in ballistics tests. Even when that particular round doesn't expand, it tumbles and still does a lot of tissue disruption while not over-penetrating past 17". But when it does expand, it very consistently gets to around 13" of penetration in calibrated ballistics gel after 4 layers of denim. I can imagine potentially police departments adopting this caliber in the M&P 5.7 as it has the benefit of allowing for fairly accurate shooting at distances that would be very difficult with a 9mm pistol. So in cases where officers don't have time to retrieve a 5.56mm carbine from their patrol vehicles, a 5.7mm pistol could get the job done out to 100 yards.
@@mgkleym The 5.7 is not in the same ballpark as .223/5.56. The latter fires significantly heavier bullets at significantly higher velocities. 5.7 generates muzzle energies in the mid to high 300s of ft-lbs which is similar to 9mm Para.whereas. The 223/5.56 generates around 1,200 ft-lbs. What the 5.7 is more similar to is the .22 Hornet, though the hottest Hornet loads outpace the 5.7.
Heard a lot of good things about this pistol. This just cements it. Seriously, 23 rounds of accurate fire with the ballistics of this round are impossible to ignore. Price notwithstanding….Luago needs to make one in this caliber.
I got mine with a threaded barrel and a Holosun 407K--my first red dot sight--and immediately placed by first shots out of it on target at thirty yards, having never used 5.7x28 rounds before. Based on what I've seen about the ballistics of the 5.7x28 round, it makes sense to me as a carry gun when I'm going to be around a lot of people, given how it tumbles and dumps energy in the target in a hurry with low risk of overpenetration.
Karl, thank you for a great and fair review! I bought my PSA 5.7 Rock just under a year ago. And I love it. Has worked flawlessly and the fitting to my hand is perfect. I hear a lot of people saying that they won't buy a 5.7 because it's basically a spicy .22. However, I see this as a specific tool to use in special situations. The 5.7 round was developed to defeat certain levels of body armor. Does it have the punch of a 9 mm or .45 ? No. I see the 5.7 round as a surgical round that will do what a 9 mm can't in certain situations. And, PSA hit it out of the park.
From my research, you can look at it from 2 completely valid points of view. Viewpoint 1, the rounds are not going fast enough to result in rifle-class wounding capabilities (2,600+ fps); it's practically a .22 Magnum-Magnum. Viewpoint 2, that's ok because hitting the threat is all that really matters, and the hit probability on these pistols is insanely good; threats are primarily neutralized psychologically, not physiologically (unless a major part of the CNS is hit, there is no physiological reason for someone to drop immediately when shot, it's purely the fight-or-flight response. Even if you're shot in the heart, you have 10 seconds of useful consciousness left according to the FBI.). Basically the reason we don't use .50BMG for combat rifles, small hits are better than a huge miss. Ultimately it's up to whichever view you align with, you could play it safe and continue with 9mm and friends, or try the ability to magdump a target and actually hit it, lol
Plenty of people claim the rifle wounding characteristics occurs at around 2,000 fps or so. You see rifle wounding characteristics out of 7.62x39, even from 100 yards away and that is only 2,300ish FPS out of the muzzle, just as one example. The trick with 5.7x28 is to get the light for caliber ammunition. 2,100 fps out of a pistol, pretty nasty in gelatin. That being said, I’d still carry 9mm, but food for thought
@@bannedbycommieyoutube5time920the velocity threshold for rifle-like wounding seems to be correlated with bullet profile (basically BC). Blunt, non-spitzer projectiles seem to behave like this starting as low as ~1800FPS, while much more modern & streamlined projectiles require something more like 2200FPS. It’s just a case of being able to translate forwards movement into sideways deflection of material. For the record, I’m assuming you basically already know all of this lol
@@bannedbycommieyoutube5time920 The problem is that the lighter ammo tends to be less reliable cycling in these pistols, and I'd say reliability is the most important factor for self-defense. Also the hotter lighter rounds that might offer a little more reliable cycling are prohibitively expensive or too difficult to find. I believe the 5.7 to be a finnicky platform but still potentially worth it if you're willing to put in the time and money. Some people have good luck with it, others don't. I like my FN FiveseveN but for most scenarios, it's not my first choice.
While I do not disagree with your point I will say Federal Ammunition's engineers stated that in their testing: On average, 2200 FPS is the magic number for rifle performance to kick in.
The 57 has started to take off to be more and more popular with a few more manufacturers building pistols to shoot this round hopefully in the future that will help bring the price of the ammunition down some more. My daughter and granddaughters all love this gun. People with bad arthritis in their wrists love shooting it also. I have 2 pistols chamber in the 57 a ruger and the psa and I am in the process of getting the s&w. I was not impressed with the fn because of the price for one thing and I wasn’t impressed enough with it to actually buy one.
Well, thankfully YT did in fact feed me this one. I've seen nothing but positive on it, but frankly I take your word over probably anyone else's Karl, so if it's got your stamp it must be good. Buddy of mine picked one up and also loves it. I'd already have one I think if I wasn't saving for a car. Thanks for all your work brother!
I must say it was obvious you were having fun, wish could use that pistol in IDPA but downside would be tougher on steel poppers, and cost but gettin better, I remember when PSA sold the American Eagle 5.7 for 14 a box and not terribly long ago. PSA is really bringing value to the market! Great video, very entertaining!
5.7 prices are not as bad as it used to be, it was about the same price as low grade brass .233 at my local shop ~.32$ a round. i really hope it gets even cheaper in the coming years and replaces .22lr as the go to cheap training round.
@@purplepenguin43We might be able to drive it down to like a quarter if it catches on super hard, but I don't know if it's physically possible to drive prices down to Tiny, Rimmed cartridge using soft lead levels of cheap.
Bought two of these Mags to try in my Ruger 57 and Ruger LC Carbine. They are at a much lower cost than the Ruger Magazines. They work great, with no feeding or ejections problems. The only problems that I have with them is that they are not drop free and my one mag loader will not work. I can certainly live with that, as I am also using them in firearms that they were not specifically designed for. If I need more, I would not hesitate to buy more of these from PSA. (I also like the fact that they hold three more rounds over the Ruger OEM mags). If I did not already own my 2 Ruger 57 chambered firearms, I would have bought this one. I will be surprised if PSA doesn't offer up a Carbine, ala Ruger, in this chambering.
I keep seeing these comments and as much as I enjoy seeing the sentiment, I get closer and closer to wondering where the line lands that drops such a firm future tense.
This would be an amazing home defense / nighstand handgun, with the 30+1 & rmr and a light, wow im impressed with this firearm, i will be looking into getting one of these soon!
I have been searching for an affordable 5.7 for a home defense sidearm, right now I have a M1911A1 in .45ACP which is surely up to the job but the 5.7 offers a lot of power in about the same size package. I am getting old enough now that it isn't a priority, I may not be around much longer, dad died in his early 60's, both my sisters died at 72, I am now 72, both sisters died of cancer, I have had Cancer now for over a year, they say they got it all, and I hope they are right but I have no energy and don't get around much any more so it is probably a moot point, however next gunshow here in town I will be searching for a deal on a 5.7 and this one looks like a good one. Thanks for the in depth review it has all the info I wanted on this. particular gun.
Excellent review. I always tell people that if they can shoot a 9mm really well, they'll be able to shoot a 5.7 pistol even better. I own the M&P 5.7 and I'm absolutely in love with that gun. People forget that this pistol was used to horrifically deadly effect in the Ft. Hood mass shooting, primarily using the SS197SR round that uses the Hornady V-max bullet. In calibrated ballistic gel tests with 4 layers of denim, it consistently gets 13" of penetration. In the rare times the bullet doesn't expand, it still tumbles and causes plenty of tissue disruption while not penetrating beyond 17" normally. Overall 5.7 pistols are really hard not to fall in love with. The low over-penetration, high magazine capacity, inherent accuracy, long range, and low recoil make it absolutely ideal for home defense. The only area where it might be iffy is for law enforcement. It would provide a lot of benefits for law enforcement, but one downside is that unlike civilians, LEO's actually WANT good barrier penetration and lethality after a barrier is penetrated. But it's used by the Secret Service who didn't seem to find this to be a major problem. The biggest negative however currently is the price of ammo, but thankfully companies like AAC (owned by PSA), are helping to bring the cost of 5.7x28, down to more reasonable levels. I would love to see some .22LR conversion kits for 5.7 pistols to use for cheaper training.
Because I live in semi urban environment this gun was my choice over AR-15, walking out of the house to confront a problem with AR-15 you will be the target or perceived as the aggressor, the Rock gives you plenty fire power in your belt that’s not advertised, also have Halosun optics. Unfortunately for now ammo quit expensive but worth the price when needed.
I really like how much slimmer the M&P 5.7 is. The opening on the dust cover/slide on the M&P is a comcern for me, tho. I think I'm going to end up buying both.
An interesting review. I shot a 5.7 in Phoenix last September (2022) and enjoyed the low recoil. I should say that I'm coming from a Ruger KP944 in .40 S&W with a 20 round magazine. The Ruger has been a stalwart for over 15 years, but maybe it's time to trade in the KP944 & its matching carbine, the PC40. Besides, I'll still have my "hand canon" revolvers.
I opted for the M&P 5.7, but my conclusions on that gun are much the same. Fantastic shooting gun. Also a great suppressor host, from someone who generally dislikes suppressed handguns.
Carrying mine today as i do farm chores. Your review reflects my opinion perfectly. I put my basic hs407k on mine, and i find it excellent for dispatching varmints at 50+ yards, and is serious firepower in a fight. My mother has a walther wmp, and i really enjoy it, but its in the questionable area as a serious self defense weapon.
I'm so happy 5.7 is making a comeback now that FN has some competition and isn't the only (over priced) game in town. Such a unique and niche cartridge that was for decades held back because of the lack of guns chambered for it
You're talking about getting them for $450 with two mags on gunbroker but you can get them with like 10 mags straight from psa for less than that a lot of the time
Fun review on the gun (and an interesting note on just using the circle on the sight). Unrelated to the product, the shooting around 5 minutes is unusually loud compared to the rest of the video. Mind your volume if you're wearing headphones.
Damn, letting alone the amazing price, imagine having a carriable pistol with 30 friggin rounds in them. At that point, you can basically lay down suppressive fire at short range, with a friggin pistol^^.
Thanks for the great review. In a time when affordable, quality pistols are abundant, some stand out. Hopefully, here in California, the courts will soon make them available to us as well.
Whenever you use a mag extension, you need to replace the spring with more powerful one or you risk reliability problems, I think the rock is a solid 5.7
I just adapt to right handed pistols, use my middle finger to release the mag. Id rather train that way than find myself in a scenario where I am forced to use a regular pistols and waste precious seconds fumbling the reload because I trained myself on a left hand only handgun.
For some reason russian pistols with double stack double feed mags have very strong springs. When they redesigned MP-443 Yarygin pistol to accept both single feed and double feed mags, the single feed ones were normal, but double feed mags had very strong spring. Maybe pointy nose allows 5.7 pistols to get away with normal spring, or russians just didnt figure out how to make it reliable.
I'm not a huge fan of 5.7, as .22TCM is more effective and cost efficient, however the Dagger itself makes me very happy. It's like a manufacturer actually used logic for once. Take something that isn't broken (Browning action + Glock simplicity) and combine it with the modern ammunition (5.7).
I like that it's 95% just a Glock, that's PSA knowing what's up. Hope the Rock helps bring prices down on 5.7. What I'm thinking is that they might have a case for LE use; especially with the excellent capacity, AP loads available, and the general pleasant handling of the gun.
Holosun EPS (not carry), Streamlight TLR-1 HL, and the Excess Arms extension is just peak defensive handgun. As easy to make 100yrd shots as a rifle, genuinely. I would just get the threaded barrel version if you're not planning to conceal this thing since a lot of testing shows the threaded barrel gives +100 fps with the 40gr ammo.
I feel almost exactly the same with the ruger 57, super lightweight, feels very nice in the hand etc. Only negative thing is the trigger is a little mushy
I was on the fence about whether 5.7mm was a decent round for carry. Then I saw firsthand the effect of the blue tip FN rounds on a live target. And I know someone who killed a deer with one, the deer didn't go far after getting hit. 23+1 round count is a rather compelling argument too.
44. Cheap 5.7 runs 0.60$ a round, and the pistol retails for $600 on their website. This comes out to a nice even 1,000 rounds equalling the value of the pistol. Divide by 23 to get the number of magazines =43.5ish. This means that by firing the rest of the 44th magazine, the value of the ammo fired has exceeded the cost of the gun.
@@Bramblett89you can generally find the fiocchi stuff for under $0.50 a round, to your door. I’ve actually gotten it for in the mid $0.40’s before recently. Not being a know it all, just ammo cost is a big consideration for people
Nice review. Thing is, it's freakin expensive to use for plinking. I have one with 14 magazines. Probably not gonna load them all at the same time when it's 2x+ cost of 124 NATO 9mm loads. I have an X-Five Legion. About the same size. Both have HoloSun 407CO optics that I picked up on clearance from PSA when I got the Rock. 8moa circle only. I'm old and my eyes aren't what they were, but that's an absolute handgun combat optic. It looks like a dot to my old eyes, but at 8moa, that's fine. The Rock and X-Five are essentially the same size. The 5 is sooooo much less expensive to run with rounds that actually MOVE a target at 100 yards rather than ting it.
WOW Karl.... I am always happy to see a new gun review but you... YOU ARE HAPPY! THAT is noteworthy and makes me glad to see this particular firearm. PSA 5.7 bringing the joy. Huh... who'd have thunk it?
An old Jedi told me that Kel-Tec made something similar to this in .22mag during the early days of the rebellion. I've never actually seen one in person, but I'll take his word for it since he's a Jedi. Perhaps Kel-Tec had a contract with the Empire they were trying to fulfill.
PMR-30. Cool gun but nothing you'd ever want to trust your life to. THey were able to fix the problems the gun had with out-of-battery detonations, but they were never able to get it to cycle reliably or extract and eject consistently, even using a fluted chamber like a G3. Very cool toy, not really a very practical defensive tool.
I appreciate your review. I've seen several over the last few days, unfortunately that'll very likely drive the price up before I get a chance to pick one up.
FN, S&W, and Ruger all used the same strange designs with shrouded single action hammers and gas systems for no apparent reason and because of the strangeness of the current 5.7 offerings I have just been waiting until Glock decides to make a gun in 5.7. However now this looks like the gun I want Striker fired, Browning action, and affordable. I might just have to pick one up.
For a long time I've used 22WMR for teaching people fundamentals before generalizing their skills to carrying calibers. This would probably fit the same role, without being as fiddly as a 22WMR pistol.
And nowhere near as dirty too. I'm pretty sure not a single round is as dirty as bulk 22WMR. I can't imagine a 22WMR pistol continuing to work properly after 200 rounds without some cleaning attention, but most centrefires are perfectly fine to go on until the heat-death of the universe.
Heh. Man. It's almost like low-grain, high-speed low recoil small projectiles in large numbers are a good idea or something. We can call it...an intermediate pistol cartridge, perhaps.
The fact its double stack/double feed with a brilliant trigger at the price is absolutely astonishing. Want.
If you get one, put 200-300 rounds through it before you judge the trigger. Mine started out around 10lbs and now is around 6lbs. Tons of others have reported the same thing.
Great gun though, accurate, good fit and finish. Holosun red dot that comes with it is pretty darn nice. Ergonomic, 100% recommend.
@@bannedbycommieyoutube5time920 Mine was solid and still is, however the first 100-200 rounds my extractor was digging into the brass a little bit, it eventually deburred itself and now no more brass flacks in the action lmao.
Having the FN, M&P, and the PSA 5.7 models all together showed me how easy it was to just make the 5.7 comfortable in the hand. The FN felt way too thin, but the PSA grip ends up feeling full in the hand and COMFORTABLE.
PSA having all kinds of affordable and different types of slides/parts available makes it a better contender.
I have the FN and it fits great in my hand. But can see where it wouldn't fit a lot of hands comfortably. I just hope we see ammo prices drop back down.
i just felt up a psa rock the other day at a gun show. grip is indeed pretty comfortable which has me thinking its likely a pretty sweet shooter.
And even Ruger is making a 5.7 now.
How do you feel about the M&P? I love mine even though i have larger hands.
Watching you mag dump that stubborn knockdown was hilarious knowing you're on the clock at a match.
also $$$$$$$$$$
@@ghengisbobberthrowing $23 of quarters, or even the box of ammo at once would have had more effect! Hilarious.
I’ve always thought civilian 5.7 pistols were a bit of a gimmick but this video has me questioning my assumptions, great video and great info as always
I think maybe the FN version at a Large was too much for most shooters. Ruger and PSA having a version under $500 is a huge incentive to explore the platform.
The Gold Dot is the real deal
@@tomwoodrow5494The fact that we've gone from like $1.20 a round to like $0.50 probably hasn't hurt either.
@@1stCallipostleshit.. during peak pandemic I was paying around $2/rd for my ruger
One magazine with one of the chamber is a half a box of ammo I'm not standing in front of it 🤣 definitely not a gimmick
Really hoping that 5.7 becomes popular enough for the round to go down in price. This would be a fun firearm to train with if the round was cheaper to shoot.
I’m with you there! You can get ammunition from anywhere from $0.40-$0.50 a round shipped currently if you look online. That’s down significantly from a year ago.
@@bannedbycommieyoutube5time920 If you look deep enough down the rabbit hole, you can find it for less than .50c a rnd. It is coming down though. 5.7x28 was officially adopted into NATO standards last year. As such, more manufacturers are making it.
@@jik294 THAT is the selling point I'm looking for. Hell yeah.
I hope so too, but the lamination on the case is pretty much guaranteed going to keep costs higher than 9 parabellum
i havent used it but it looks like that aac brand psa carries is a decent price for 5.7. hell they even make 300BO for not terrible prices. as long as the quality control & accuracy is good i imagine the increase in sales might entice better prices over time.
As always a very informative and thoughtful video. Thank you for your time and effort posting this content.
Thank you!
Anyone else not watch videos because you know you'll buy something you don't really need?
Yeah…
Nope. :(
Quiet you
I'm Bri'ish so I just live vicariously through Karl
It's more like a quality review before purchase
Double stack, double feed mags will make for a great basis for a PDW design. Maybe with even larger mags.
AR-57 (P90 50-rd mag, eject through classic mag well) and CMMG Resolute (32-rd mag in classic mag well) already exist.
Not seeing a good way to double-feed off the P90 mag, though.
@@Sableaglethat's cool but none of those things had anything to do with what he said
why would you want a rifle in a pistol caliber?
@@maximusjoseppi5904 cuz they're fun as hell
@@oso1165 its fun to shoot a caliber in a rifle that's ineffective and more expensive? interesting point of view. you can shoot 300bo supers and subs for a little cheaper than 5.7. you can shoot 556 far cheaper. we have different ideas of fun for sure
Hey Karl, if you want to try the Smith 5.7, I've got one in inventory. I tapped the gas port so you can disable the gas assist. Suprise, the slide doesn't open without gas assist. About 50 rounds through it. Interesting recoil impulse. Happy to loan it.
I'm not following, why would you want to disable the gas assist? Subsonic 5.7?
@otm646 only practical reason would be a little extra velocity, or perhaps autoloaders aren't allowed. I did it out of professional curiosity. I thought maybe it would cycle without, and the gas system was only to get around glock's patent on rotary delayed pistols.
@@observed00Rotating barrel lockups were first designed by John Browning in 1897, and any patents have long since expired. That's why Beretta, Steyr, Colt, and Boberg have all used them to varying degrees of success.
@TheHobodemon Patents are what they are, and glock has a recent patent on a particular rotary locking design which looks exactly like this Smith, sans the gas system.
@@observed00 If you're referring to European Patent EP3800434A1, that patent has nothing to do with how the gun functions. That patent's for a barrel swap system using a threaded tensioning nut and dovetails. B1 of that block of patents describes a gas system, but one that uses a gas block rather than a barrel sleeve. I can't find anything referencing a rotating barrel lockup, which I'm sure will be a relief for whoever at Beretta designed the PX4 back in the 80s back when they were calling it the 8000 Cheetah
8:15 I was half expecting you to chuck the pistol at the target lol
My first thought was a flying two-foot, but I think yours might be even funnier
Just run him over at that point, LOL.
If I was a security guard or something, 5.7 would be my every day carry. I always think about the unfortunate security guard who was not able to stop the Buffalo shooter because of his armor plates. The security guard sadly lost his life.
5.7x28mm outside of the specialty rounds won't generally go through soft plates. This would be better against hard plates because you can just go for the face accurately instead.
AAC's soft point does go through some level 2 soft armors
@gunfumaster1024 nobody even really sells level 2 armor anymore, and aac doesnt even make 5.7 soft points. And even if they did, no. It doesnt.
This video pushed me over the edge on buying the extended mags for my psa rock. I have been concealed carrying the rock for almost a year now with the black dragon fang ammunition and feel confident that I can do so with the extended mags as well. I also highly recommend the HS507C-X2 optic for its ease of use due to the vulcan reticle being very friendly for new shooters in the red dot game. Love this gun and I am happy with its performance cant wait to buy more accessories for it in the future.
If I may ask - why the Black Dragon Fang? Never heard of that stuff before now, it kinda looks like it'd just poke a small hole. Not designed for expansion or anything? Is it for 3A penetration?
@@calvinreeder7580 It is designed to tumble creating massive wound cavities when it dumps its energy into someone. It's average muzzle velocity I have observed is 2070 fps though it is advertised at 2200 out of a 5.7 handgun. I feel like it is the best 5.7 ammo for defensive use and that is why I use it.
I also run Vanguard black dragon fang. Good rounds
The various ballistics tests of the 5.7 I have seen, including several of Paul Harrell's meat targets, suggest that the cartridge is sufficient for defensive use. Not overwhelmingly effective but it seems like it will penetrate deep enough while causing enough tissue disruption to have a decisive effect.
The cost of the ammo is the real drawback.
It's the same ballpark as a .223 at a few 100 yards. Personally I wouldn't want to be shot with that.
People often forget that it was used in the Ft. Hood mass shooting where the terrorist, Major Nidal, killed a large number of fellow soldiers with it including several who attempted to charge him. So it most definitely is a man-stopper. The SS197SR round in particular, does very impressive wound channels in ballistics tests. Even when that particular round doesn't expand, it tumbles and still does a lot of tissue disruption while not over-penetrating past 17". But when it does expand, it very consistently gets to around 13" of penetration in calibrated ballistics gel after 4 layers of denim. I can imagine potentially police departments adopting this caliber in the M&P 5.7 as it has the benefit of allowing for fairly accurate shooting at distances that would be very difficult with a 9mm pistol. So in cases where officers don't have time to retrieve a 5.56mm carbine from their patrol vehicles, a 5.7mm pistol could get the job done out to 100 yards.
@@mgkleym
The 5.7 is not in the same ballpark as .223/5.56. The latter fires significantly heavier bullets at significantly higher velocities. 5.7 generates muzzle energies in the mid to high 300s of ft-lbs which is similar to 9mm Para.whereas. The 223/5.56 generates around 1,200 ft-lbs. What the 5.7 is more similar to is the .22 Hornet, though the hottest Hornet loads outpace the 5.7.
@@podmonkey2501.223 has high 300 ft•lbs of energy at a few hundred yards though, which is what he was comparing it too
Heard a lot of good things about this pistol. This just cements it. Seriously, 23 rounds of accurate fire with the ballistics of this round are impossible to ignore. Price notwithstanding….Luago needs to make one in this caliber.
PSA. Doing it right. The price point. The capacity. THAT TRIGGER.
Best value out there!!
I got mine with a threaded barrel and a Holosun 407K--my first red dot sight--and immediately placed by first shots out of it on target at thirty yards, having never used 5.7x28 rounds before.
Based on what I've seen about the ballistics of the 5.7x28 round, it makes sense to me as a carry gun when I'm going to be around a lot of people, given how it tumbles and dumps energy in the target in a hurry with low risk of overpenetration.
Karl, thank you for a great and fair review! I bought my PSA 5.7 Rock just under a year ago. And I love it. Has worked flawlessly and the fitting to my hand is perfect. I hear a lot of people saying that they won't buy a 5.7 because it's basically a spicy .22. However, I see this as a specific tool to use in special situations. The 5.7 round was developed to defeat certain levels of body armor. Does it have the punch of a 9 mm or .45 ? No. I see the 5.7 round as a surgical round that will do what a 9 mm can't in certain situations. And, PSA hit it out of the park.
From my research, you can look at it from 2 completely valid points of view. Viewpoint 1, the rounds are not going fast enough to result in rifle-class wounding capabilities (2,600+ fps); it's practically a .22 Magnum-Magnum. Viewpoint 2, that's ok because hitting the threat is all that really matters, and the hit probability on these pistols is insanely good; threats are primarily neutralized psychologically, not physiologically (unless a major part of the CNS is hit, there is no physiological reason for someone to drop immediately when shot, it's purely the fight-or-flight response. Even if you're shot in the heart, you have 10 seconds of useful consciousness left according to the FBI.). Basically the reason we don't use .50BMG for combat rifles, small hits are better than a huge miss. Ultimately it's up to whichever view you align with, you could play it safe and continue with 9mm and friends, or try the ability to magdump a target and actually hit it, lol
Plenty of people claim the rifle wounding characteristics occurs at around 2,000 fps or so. You see rifle wounding characteristics out of 7.62x39, even from 100 yards away and that is only 2,300ish FPS out of the muzzle, just as one example.
The trick with 5.7x28 is to get the light for caliber ammunition. 2,100 fps out of a pistol, pretty nasty in gelatin.
That being said, I’d still carry 9mm, but food for thought
@@bannedbycommieyoutube5time920the velocity threshold for rifle-like wounding seems to be correlated with bullet profile (basically BC). Blunt, non-spitzer projectiles seem to behave like this starting as low as ~1800FPS, while much more modern & streamlined projectiles require something more like 2200FPS. It’s just a case of being able to translate forwards movement into sideways deflection of material.
For the record, I’m assuming you basically already know all of this lol
@@124thDragoon some of it, but not all of it! Thank you for your comment, learn something new every day 🇺🇸😃
@@bannedbycommieyoutube5time920 The problem is that the lighter ammo tends to be less reliable cycling in these pistols, and I'd say reliability is the most important factor for self-defense. Also the hotter lighter rounds that might offer a little more reliable cycling are prohibitively expensive or too difficult to find. I believe the 5.7 to be a finnicky platform but still potentially worth it if you're willing to put in the time and money. Some people have good luck with it, others don't. I like my FN FiveseveN but for most scenarios, it's not my first choice.
While I do not disagree with your point I will say Federal Ammunition's engineers stated that in their testing: On average, 2200 FPS is the magic number for rifle performance to kick in.
The 57 has started to take off to be more and more popular with a few more manufacturers building pistols to shoot this round hopefully in the future that will help bring the price of the ammunition down some more. My daughter and granddaughters all love this gun. People with bad arthritis in their wrists love shooting it also. I have 2 pistols chamber in the 57 a ruger and the psa and I am in the process of getting the s&w. I was not impressed with the fn because of the price for one thing and I wasn’t impressed enough with it to actually buy one.
I hear you with the feeling of the fit, once i got mine the Ruger 57 went up for sale. Even before i shot the first round it felt smoother.
Well, thankfully YT did in fact feed me this one. I've seen nothing but positive on it, but frankly I take your word over probably anyone else's Karl, so if it's got your stamp it must be good. Buddy of mine picked one up and also loves it. I'd already have one I think if I wasn't saving for a car. Thanks for all your work brother!
I have had one for a while now,it is my favorite carry. Never had a problem with it's function
I must say it was obvious you were having fun, wish could use that pistol in IDPA but downside would be tougher on steel poppers, and cost but gettin better, I remember when PSA sold the American Eagle 5.7 for 14 a box and not terribly long ago. PSA is really bringing value to the market! Great video, very entertaining!
That was an exemplary pistol review! Short, to the point, practical application and with interesting conclusion
Great work. I’d love to see a review of the M&P as well, since it has an interesting operating mechanism.
8:03 $100 gone in 30 seconds 🥹
Is he using fancy competition ammo or something? I counted like, 48 to 50 shots with the 5.7.
5.7 prices are not as bad as it used to be, it was about the same price as low grade brass .233 at my local shop ~.32$ a round. i really hope it gets even cheaper in the coming years and replaces .22lr as the go to cheap training round.
@@purplepenguin43We might be able to drive it down to like a quarter if it catches on super hard, but I don't know if it's physically possible to drive prices down to Tiny, Rimmed cartridge using soft lead levels of cheap.
Thanks
“What else do you want?”
Senpi to notice me.
Great video, really glad to see 5.7 gaining market share, think it has real potential!
I've been reluctant to buy this gun. But, I've heard too many people talk about how great it is. This was a great review.
every video ive seen on this gun make me want it more and more
The Rock has become my go to hiking pistol 👍
Bought two of these Mags to try in my Ruger 57 and Ruger LC Carbine. They are at a much lower cost than the Ruger Magazines. They work great, with no feeding or ejections problems. The only problems that I have with them is that they are not drop free and my one mag loader will not work. I can certainly live with that, as I am also using them in firearms that they were not specifically designed for.
If I need more, I would not hesitate to buy more of these from PSA. (I also like the fact that they hold three more rounds over the Ruger OEM mags).
If I did not already own my 2 Ruger 57 chambered firearms, I would have bought this one. I will be surprised if PSA doesn't offer up a Carbine, ala Ruger, in this chambering.
I feel like PSA is going to be a leader in firearms very soon with products that are fun, useful, or both.
I keep seeing these comments and as much as I enjoy seeing the sentiment, I get closer and closer to wondering where the line lands that drops such a firm future tense.
This would be an amazing home defense / nighstand handgun, with the 30+1 & rmr and a light, wow im impressed with this firearm, i will be looking into getting one of these soon!
I have been searching for an affordable 5.7 for a home defense sidearm, right now I have a M1911A1 in .45ACP which is surely up to the job but the 5.7 offers a lot of power in about the same size package. I am getting old enough now that it isn't a priority, I may not be around much longer, dad died in his early 60's, both my sisters died at 72, I am now 72, both sisters died of cancer, I have had Cancer now for over a year, they say they got it all, and I hope they are right but I have no energy and don't get around much any more so it is probably a moot point, however next gunshow here in town I will be searching for a deal on a 5.7 and this one looks like a good one. Thanks for the in depth review it has all the info I wanted on this. particular gun.
Nice crisp trigger as well. That's always nice.
Excellent review. I always tell people that if they can shoot a 9mm really well, they'll be able to shoot a 5.7 pistol even better. I own the M&P 5.7 and I'm absolutely in love with that gun. People forget that this pistol was used to horrifically deadly effect in the Ft. Hood mass shooting, primarily using the SS197SR round that uses the Hornady V-max bullet. In calibrated ballistic gel tests with 4 layers of denim, it consistently gets 13" of penetration. In the rare times the bullet doesn't expand, it still tumbles and causes plenty of tissue disruption while not penetrating beyond 17" normally.
Overall 5.7 pistols are really hard not to fall in love with. The low over-penetration, high magazine capacity, inherent accuracy, long range, and low recoil make it absolutely ideal for home defense. The only area where it might be iffy is for law enforcement. It would provide a lot of benefits for law enforcement, but one downside is that unlike civilians, LEO's actually WANT good barrier penetration and lethality after a barrier is penetrated. But it's used by the Secret Service who didn't seem to find this to be a major problem.
The biggest negative however currently is the price of ammo, but thankfully companies like AAC (owned by PSA), are helping to bring the cost of 5.7x28, down to more reasonable levels. I would love to see some .22LR conversion kits for 5.7 pistols to use for cheaper training.
Glad you like it. Sounds like a great fun/game gun.
Very nice pistol. Appreciate the review Karl.
Because I live in semi urban environment this gun was my choice over AR-15, walking out of the house to confront a problem with AR-15 you will be the target or perceived as the aggressor, the Rock gives you plenty fire power in your belt that’s not advertised, also have Halosun optics. Unfortunately for now ammo quit expensive but worth the price when needed.
I really like how much slimmer the M&P 5.7 is. The opening on the dust cover/slide on the M&P is a comcern for me, tho. I think I'm going to end up buying both.
An interesting review. I shot a 5.7 in Phoenix last September (2022) and enjoyed the low recoil. I should say that I'm coming from a Ruger KP944 in .40 S&W with a 20 round magazine. The Ruger has been a stalwart for over 15 years, but maybe it's time to trade in the KP944 & its matching carbine, the PC40. Besides, I'll still have my "hand canon" revolvers.
I opted for the M&P 5.7, but my conclusions on that gun are much the same. Fantastic shooting gun. Also a great suppressor host, from someone who generally dislikes suppressed handguns.
I definitely enjoy shooting my 5.7 pistol. one of my favorites to shoot. that and my PMR30.
Carrying mine today as i do farm chores. Your review reflects my opinion perfectly. I put my basic hs407k on mine, and i find it excellent for dispatching varmints at 50+ yards, and is serious firepower in a fight. My mother has a walther wmp, and i really enjoy it, but its in the questionable area as a serious self defense weapon.
I'm so happy 5.7 is making a comeback now that FN has some competition and isn't the only (over priced) game in town. Such a unique and niche cartridge that was for decades held back because of the lack of guns chambered for it
Nice! Now time for a mud test 😁
What else do I want? I want ammo for less then $37 a box.
You're talking about getting them for $450 with two mags on gunbroker but you can get them with like 10 mags straight from psa for less than that a lot of the time
same gun and mag extensions. love it!
Fun review on the gun (and an interesting note on just using the circle on the sight).
Unrelated to the product, the shooting around 5 minutes is unusually loud compared to the rest of the video. Mind your volume if you're wearing headphones.
I always like to imagine myself going back in time to the civil war with modern firearms and being hailed as a god.
Imagine that 30 round mag with a removable shoulder stock and a fun switch...
Something about it being called the Rock activates some caveman part of my brain.
"Me fight with rock, rock good. Rock built for Grug."
Damn, letting alone the amazing price, imagine having a carriable pistol with 30 friggin rounds in them. At that point, you can basically lay down suppressive fire at short range, with a friggin pistol^^.
Thanks for the great review. In
a time when affordable, quality pistols are abundant, some stand out. Hopefully, here in California, the courts will soon make them available to us as well.
Wow 5.7 really rocks 👍👍👍
Whenever you use a mag extension, you need to replace the spring with more powerful one or you risk reliability problems, I think the rock is a solid 5.7
I see what you did there.
🤔 curious amateur
Pro tip. The mag release can be switched from side to side if you're wrong handed like me.
I just adapt to right handed pistols, use my middle finger to release the mag.
Id rather train that way than find myself in a scenario where I am forced to use a regular pistols and waste precious seconds fumbling the reload because I trained myself on a left hand only handgun.
When PSA starts making 5.7 ammo cheap I’ll buy one
For some reason russian pistols with double stack double feed mags have very strong springs. When they redesigned MP-443 Yarygin pistol to accept both single feed and double feed mags, the single feed ones were normal, but double feed mags had very strong spring.
Maybe pointy nose allows 5.7 pistols to get away with normal spring, or russians just didnt figure out how to make it reliable.
Now we need the ultimate 57 shootout. The OG f&n vs the new comers ruger, psa, s&w, etc etc
I'm not a huge fan of 5.7, as .22TCM is more effective and cost efficient, however the Dagger itself makes me very happy. It's like a manufacturer actually used logic for once. Take something that isn't broken (Browning action + Glock simplicity) and combine it with the modern ammunition (5.7).
I just bought one of these from Palmetto for $320 . Excited to get my hands on it
I’ll probably try his build in the future seems like a nice build
If I lived in the US I'd get one. Great for plinking at the very least.
Yeah not with expensive ammo.
@@Hawk7886it’s pricey but not as bad as it used to be. Usually around 0.45 a round.
I love mine. I also found ammo at Murdochs 150 rounds for $80
The reality is that if you hit flesh with the 5-7, it's going down unless your head is made of steel.
I like that it's 95% just a Glock, that's PSA knowing what's up. Hope the Rock helps bring prices down on 5.7.
What I'm thinking is that they might have a case for LE use; especially with the excellent capacity, AP loads available, and the general pleasant handling of the gun.
3:50 the norico cf98 pistols had a modular fcg and double stack double feed in 9mm back in the 90s.
Always liked the idea of 5.7 combo of P90 with 50 & pistol with 25
Holosun EPS (not carry), Streamlight TLR-1 HL, and the Excess Arms extension is just peak defensive handgun. As easy to make 100yrd shots as a rifle, genuinely. I would just get the threaded barrel version if you're not planning to conceal this thing since a lot of testing shows the threaded barrel gives +100 fps with the 40gr ammo.
I feel almost exactly the same with the ruger 57, super lightweight, feels very nice in the hand etc. Only negative thing is the trigger is a little mushy
I was on the fence about whether 5.7mm was a decent round for carry. Then I saw firsthand the effect of the blue tip FN rounds on a live target. And I know someone who killed a deer with one, the deer didn't go far after getting hit. 23+1 round count is a rather compelling argument too.
Someone smarter than me needs to do the math as to how many mags will eventually exceed the cost of the firearm itself.
44. Cheap 5.7 runs 0.60$ a round, and the pistol retails for $600 on their website. This comes out to a nice even 1,000 rounds equalling the value of the pistol. Divide by 23 to get the number of magazines =43.5ish. This means that by firing the rest of the 44th magazine, the value of the ammo fired has exceeded the cost of the gun.
These are the math problems we didn't have in school. A few questions about watermelons....
@@OutsideTheTargetDemographic Don't shoot watermelons. They're for eating! 😋
@@Bramblett89you can generally find the fiocchi stuff for under $0.50 a round, to your door. I’ve actually gotten it for in the mid $0.40’s before recently.
Not being a know it all, just ammo cost is a big consideration for people
@@bannedbycommieyoutube5time920 fiocchi is currently around $0.58cpr retail
And here I've been rocking a 5.56 pistol like a noob.
ding ding ding dingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingdingding....
DAMNIT WHY WONT YOU FALL DOWN!?!
When Sergeant Johnson said he had two sticks and a rock for the whole platoon (and they had to share the rock) I wonder if this is what he meant
What do I want? A metal frame USP45 of course!
Wow, a PSA. I'm impressed.
Just waiting for the damn fdle to pick mine up. I cant wait.
30+1? Now this one Rocks ;)
Nice review.
Thing is, it's freakin expensive to use for plinking.
I have one with 14 magazines. Probably not gonna load them all at the same time when it's 2x+ cost of 124 NATO 9mm loads.
I have an X-Five Legion. About the same size. Both have HoloSun 407CO optics that I picked up on clearance from PSA when I got the Rock. 8moa circle only. I'm old and my eyes aren't what they were, but that's an absolute handgun combat optic. It looks like a dot to my old eyes, but at 8moa, that's fine.
The Rock and X-Five are essentially the same size. The 5 is sooooo much less expensive to run with rounds that actually MOVE a target at 100 yards rather than ting it.
Karl!!! Help us with some holster options for the various carry positions. Tons of us need to see some of the available support equipment displayed.
WOW Karl....
I am always happy to see a new gun review but you... YOU ARE HAPPY!
THAT is noteworthy and makes me glad to see this particular firearm.
PSA 5.7 bringing the joy. Huh... who'd have thunk it?
Unfortunately 5.7 doesn’t offer anything for me in a state with limited mag capacity
I have a feeling that the Supreme Court will fix that in the near future. 🎉
An old Jedi told me that Kel-Tec made something similar to this in .22mag during the early days of the rebellion.
I've never actually seen one in person, but I'll take his word for it since he's a Jedi. Perhaps Kel-Tec had a contract with the Empire they were trying to fulfill.
PMR-30. Cool gun but nothing you'd ever want to trust your life to. THey were able to fix the problems the gun had with out-of-battery detonations, but they were never able to get it to cycle reliably or extract and eject consistently, even using a fluted chamber like a G3. Very cool toy, not really a very practical defensive tool.
I appreciate your review. I've seen several over the last few days, unfortunately that'll very likely drive the price up before I get a chance to pick one up.
Could a modern red dot full size maximum capacity pistol fill the role of a classic PDW?
FN, S&W, and Ruger all used the same strange designs with shrouded single action hammers and gas systems for no apparent reason and because of the strangeness of the current 5.7 offerings I have just been waiting until Glock decides to make a gun in 5.7. However now this looks like the gun I want Striker fired, Browning action, and affordable. I might just have to pick one up.
Good job Carl🤘
For a long time I've used 22WMR for teaching people fundamentals before generalizing their skills to carrying calibers. This would probably fit the same role, without being as fiddly as a 22WMR pistol.
And nowhere near as dirty too. I'm pretty sure not a single round is as dirty as bulk 22WMR. I can't imagine a 22WMR pistol continuing to work properly after 200 rounds without some cleaning attention, but most centrefires are perfectly fine to go on until the heat-death of the universe.
@@wefyb2 I have the Kel-Tec one. With the right ammo it runs pretty solid, even dirty. With the wrong ammo, it doesn't. But that's 22WMR.
Heh. Man. It's almost like low-grain, high-speed low recoil small projectiles in large numbers are a good idea or something. We can call it...an intermediate pistol cartridge, perhaps.
Lol. I seriously thought this was going to be a public safety announcement.
Every time someone mentions a full size handgun not being a comfortable carry option, I remember my gremlin ass conceal carrying a full size 1911
This is nice but I really like the tempo barrel on the M&P 5.7.
When's the machine pistol version coming out? 😅
Fort Hood says the round is mission effective. Do what you want.
Looking forward to the compact version
That steel target could have been a grizzly bear. I swear you put that many. That fast. In your face. Anything we know of on this earth is dropping