The prediction was 8 minutes difference, but the actual result was over 9 minutes! Are you surprised? What other factors do you think impact a rider's climbing speed? 👇
Depends. 87kg of raw muscles, lean person or 87kg person with 20kg body fat? 87kg BMI 27(Obese) but been riding for 30+ years will be faster than 65kg BMI 15, riding 1 week. 😂
GCN, next time (if you haven't done it already), do an easy companion video by having everyone coast down a gradual slope, without any pedaling, starting from wobbling in a track stand and letting gravity alone pull you downhill. Then compare system weights, tire pressure, tire width, aerodynamics, bike position (tucked into the drops or upright), etc.
As a 58‑year‑old amateur rider, I’ve lost around 20 kg over the past year through changes to my diet. I commute by bike about 60 km a day on a mostly flat route (around 150 m of climbing each way). Since losing the weight, my average commuting speed has increased by roughly 3-6 km/h depending on headwinds or tailwinds, and my average heart rate has dropped for the same effort. We’re all different and we all approach exercise and fitness for our own reasons, but for me a combination of diet and simply enjoying my cycling has made me fitter, more confident, and happier on the bike.
threshold vo2 max for me hahahaha at 69-70kg @ 250w FTP on average thattttt's like 3.4w/kg long as a stay around or under 3.4w/kg it'll be HARD but should be sustainable for a bit at least this climb of 20-30 mins, might be 10/10 RPE though
You need to all ride up the climb together now, and then let us know the average wattage difference between everyone. This will give us an idea of the % based on weight we need to produce when riding with a lighter rider or a heavier rider.
As a former 105kg cyclist who’s dropped 25kg - the ability to repeat hills and get out of the saddle is the biggest difference I see. Even when I had an ftp 20% higher than currently I wouldn’t recover once I went into z4-5 and the rest of the ride would be at z3 or above. Now even a short downhill gets me back down to z2.
I concur, I can climb for 1 hour out of the saddle, maybe more I don’t know it is boring and you can injured you knees but it makes a huge difference on steep climb
@jaredfontaine2002 not necessarly, maybe just change alimentation. I just train between 150h and 200h per year to put my power record, it is not always about riding hundreads and hundreads hours to have more power.
Most interesting observation was that Max was clearly gassed, huffing puffing, well beyond aerobic only, looked like he was near his limit to make 250W while Giorgio was nose breathing, very little obvious exertion, probably struggling to keep under 250W. Would be interesting to see the result of a race to see who had the best power relative to their weight, and start and finish at the base so the descent was included.
Seeing all the GCN presenters from different countries line up makes me think it's about time for GCN in Flanders. So many great ex pro's who'd make very capable presenters. Combine that with some of the most iconic bits of cycling heritage and I think you're in for a reasonably succussful channel. Doing it in Dutch and getting a presenter from the Netherlands would also open up to a potentially much larger demographic. Think about it. Btw great video, interesting results as well. A gradient of 1% already taking up about 25% of your power it just insane.
Hi everyone. Glad so many of you are enjoying this video. To be clear, this is not a top notch scientific experiment that will appear in peer reviewed journals - it's a bit of fun with an interesting outcome. Thanks for your suggestions - on our list for future videos: 1. Everyone rides up at the same w/kg 2. All of us add weight to be the same as the heaviest and then race to the top.
@danielloyd100 loved this video. Just been on Grand Canary and felt sorry for my self;) iam +105 kg and did my best at the Soria climb at 280 w, restday after that. Distanced by my lighter (and strong) friends up the hills. Feeling better after this video, iam not so bad, speciellt on the flat;)
It is presented as a bit of fun and enjoyed as such. If you wanted it to appeal to a (literal) wider audience you should have invited me and my 140 kg system weight to show how slow someone can be!
Also, maybe can consider a very similar test (under same conditions) but this time everyone holds same speed. Probably use close to highest speed that heaviest person can do!. This way we can see watt and watt/kg difference. Only problem, road might get block :).
I don't know my ftp but as a rec rider with a system weight of about 72, 180w or less would be sustainable for this duration. I think there needs to be some real world testing with avid riders that are not motivated by racing and/or performance. I have seen many heavier riders pass me on grades above 10%. Oddly enough I descend better than most even without any aero wheels etc...
As a heavier individual and newer cyclist, I've been kinda stunned at how much Zwift punishes my weight on climbs.. now I see that it does so because of the real work physics simulation.. it's amazing to actually see the difference.. and absolutely reinforces my drive to lose weight.. so cool. Thanks for putting this together!
Absolutely LOVE when the great riders and hosts from other countries come together- it’s really brilliant for those of us (okay, me) here in the states where we’re generally riding within our own country.
What you have to keep in mind is that the weight difference here is 35 kg. That's about 100 times the difference between a Sora and an Ultegra groupset. It's not that, in the weight-aero discussion, weight doesn't matter, but even building a 1 kg bike would just change the difference here from 72-108 to maybe 72-100. In other words, for most cyclists, the easiest way to get better at climbing is to train better, lose some weight, increase the W/kg, rather than buy a 2000 £/€/$ groupset or 3000 £/€/$ wheels.
I can confirm this. I'm suck at climbing and still is. My way? Keep climbing and training. Lose 5 Kg of my body weight from 90 (I'm overweight). Then I up my Sora's Sprocket from 28T to 34T and the rear derailleur to HG. Now I'm smiling when climbing. Much more affordable than changing the whole groupset. NB: Still suck on higher gradient. 😂
It's not that simple, we all have our limits. I'm quite skinny, and to climb faster I'd need to grow more muscles, but first I'd need to gain weight for that...
@DR_1_1 you don’t have to gain weight. You have to make a specific training to build your muscles. Doing that you might lose some fat but at the end having more muscles your weight can be a little higher. If you have an in-house trainer try 70-80% of your ftp power at 50-55 rpm for 12 min 3x with some 3 minutes recovery inside.
An experiment I’d like as an offshoot of this one would be everyone climb at the same pace but with the best climbers easing off to match the heavier (up to and including the heaviest) riding bikes augmenting e-power. The numbers generated as a sum of rider + electric motors would be quite eye opening. 😅
Heavy riders can go quicker on the down hill side, but, we are slower in the turns and our breaking must be very dependable and well dosed. I speak from experience going up and down the Venteux and Galibier with my friends. I stand 2 meters and weigh 106 kgs (not counting bike, equipment, and clothes) where as my friends weigh around 30 kgs less than I, and are much shorter (less wind resistance, lower center of gravity). I'm always the last to arrive, either direction. That what makes me unique!😊
I love climbing, I always have. I'm 74-82 depending on the activity and 190 tall. I think these are okay measurements to go quickly uphill. Most of all, climbing is a mental thing. You have a clear obstacle, and it's just you and the mountain. You fight or go home. I love it.
Great episode! Very cool to see all the presenters together. It would have been fun to watch you all do the climb a second time just to "go for it" and see what the time differences would have been.
Very good video 👌 it would have been nice to also have tested how many more watts it would have taken for the heavier rider to keep up with the lighter one. Probably pretty much the same W/kg ? It would also be nice next to test it on the flat, same watts and then same W/kg to see how much faster the heavier rider would in theory be 💪
@OperationDarksideConsidering they were worn just by the British GCN presenters in a cloudy day in January doesn't make any sense. The white straps are just made to become filthy in no time...KR
It would be really interesting to see the same experiment run but all doing the same power/system weight. Also interesting if that was done on a climb with a shallow section and a steep section and a comparison on those sections.
Loved this content - there is so much more on this subject you can do. Heart rates, all sticking together (various powers), different tyres - the list is endless. Works really well with so many of you.
It's worth pointing out that those numbers quoted at 6:23 are heavily dependent on speed. At higher power and therefore speed, weight becomes less significant with respect to aerodynamics. The power exerted against gravity scales with speed linearly (mgsinΘ*v) whereas the power exerted against aerodynamics scales with speed cubed (1/2ρCdAv^3). Tadej should be much more concerned with being aero and we mortals with weight even for the same climb. Assuming an 80kg system on a 5% gradient, at 250W, 80 percent of work might go into gravity but at 500W it'd be more like 65%. This is assuming a reasonable CdA and Crr
you should do it again but in a staggered start to eliminate drafting and all the same tire at the same psi. It'd b interesting to see how much that changes the results of the experiment.
@ebutuoyYTSteam was too expensive. It was powered by what I believe you call a knitting motor. Very handy for sprinting and dangerous over short distances. Just like Gimli 😊
Great to know what to expect when climbing Coll de Rates in 3 weeks with my first road bike. Been gravel biking so far. Cant wait to escape the indoor trainer and Norwegian winter 😅
Dan I’m a reasonably physically bike fit 72 year old. After recent (1.5 yrs) double knee replacement surgery I decided on a new gravel bike. I love climbing and was wondering how much bike weight plays in climbing efficiency. My bike is close to 11 kg and my “first thing in the morning” weight is 72kg. A few people I know have Cervelo road bikes around the 7kg mark. Cheers Gerard (Melb, Australia)
I am someone with similar stats to you. The weight difference is just the ratio of all-up weights, like they suggested in the video. So only a few percent. But potentially a stiffer frame and faster tyres on a road bike will make a measurable difference as well. And the road bike will feel faster. The feeling is maybe more important than the actual statistics suggest.
@AdrianFaggAdrian thanks mate for your comments. Interesting about the “faster feel” of the stiffer road bike. I’ve already changed my tyres to Pirelli PZero Race TLR and that makes a difference. Think I’ll stick with the gravel bike as the frame geometry is kinder to my body! Gerard
Thanks for putting this together! I don't suppose you could turn Ollie loose with his glasses? Would love to see tire sizes and pressures, even if you can't get in to tire brand specifics because of (potential) sponsorship conflicts.
It makes a huge difference. For health and turning 50 reasons. I've lost 16kg in 6 months. It makes a massive difference on the bike. Now I am going to buy a titanium bike that's heavier to compensate. 😂
Love the channel - always enjoy the videos. Apologies if this is a bit off topic, but one small thing I’d personally love to see more of over time is a wider range of cycling stories and perspectives. Cycling culture is way broader than what usually gets shown - from places like Eritrea, which has a really rich cycling history, to closer to home. There are UK cycling groups centred around Black and brown communities (like Black Cyclists Network or Women of Colour Cycling Collective) doing great stuff that rarely gets much visibility. Feels like there’s a lot of interesting ground there if you ever wanted to explore it.
I've still gone for the crash diet option post-Christmas. I've lost about 12kg so far, aiming for 15. I'm sure that will help me more than a bit of indoor training for two months.
In my experience even eating very little and exercising a lot you'll only lose 1kg a week. 4kg of what you've lost will be water, a other 2kg backlogged food, the other 6kg is the fat you've burned. Very good but don't expect to lose more than that per month.
para que sea mas completo el experimento, te faltó hacer otro test añadiendole peso a las bicicletas para que todos quedaran pesando igual, y asi analizar quien tiene mejor eficiencia cardiovascular
Also have to add that the heavier you are the more O2 you need. Also, if you are bigger and wider the aero drag is even greater (even on the flat) . Obviously I’m a big lad (135kg rider weight) and trying to get every excuse in!!
Very good point. I may be about 100kg but adding in system weight clearly matters too. It's a good video to show what too expect on long climbs at steady state watts. 2 watts per kg sounds good to me lol
My rider weight is about 68 kg, my good friend's weight is about 120 kg. On a windy day with gusts of wind I really struggle to keep up with him on the flat (when I'm not riding in his slipstream). He ploughs through any gust of wind whilst I am slowed down by it considerably. Obviously he struggles much more on climbs where I have a clear advantage.
Love seeing people post about losing weight and getting super fit - that’s honestly awesome and I’m happy for them. But for those of us in the “Clydesdale” category, the reality is different. We’re usually rolling up to the top of the climb last, getting almost no recovery because the group’s “been waiting forever,” (and then wondering why we're not showing up to every group ride 🤔). Personally, I’ll often roll out 5-10 minutes early just so I can tag the top of the first climb with everyone else. Then when the jokes start about “yeah we were waiting for the whole group 😉,” I just say, “Cool, now try strapping three modern bikes to your back and climbing that.” The point is: there are a ton of bigger riders out there who ride hard, train consistently, and still can’t escape basic physics. In a sport obsessed with ultra‑light bikes, aero everything, and fast group rides, larger cyclists end up feeling unseen - like we don’t quite “fit” the image of what a cyclist is supposed to look like or perform. So to my fellow big riders hanging tough at the back: you’re not invisible, and you’re not alone. We belong here just as much as anyone else 💪🏽😮
Finally a video that I can relate too. I've lost 6kg on Zwift and there's a big difference on climbs. I cant wait until the spring to find out on the road. But going from 104 to 98kg is huge.
I'm surprised the impact of having more muscle mass on the heart wasn't mentioned. Having more muscle mass has a complex, dual- faceted impact on cardiovascular health and performance. While higher muscle mass improves metabolic health, blood pressure management, and structural support, it simultaneously increases the oxygen demand on the heart and requires higher energy consumption during endurance activities.
@2adamastNo, more muscle mass requires more fuel. If you have more muscle mass it becomes increasingly difficult to deliver oxygen deeper into the muscles. Why More Muscle Mass Limits Oxygen Delivery 1. Lower Relative Oxidative Capacity: Research indicates a strong, consistent inverse relationship between muscle fiber size and oxidative capacity (the ability to use oxygen for energy). Larger, faster-twitch muscles are generally less efficient at using oxygen than smaller, endurance-oriented muscles. 2. Increased Metabolic Demand: More muscle mass means more tissue that needs oxygen. While the total body might have the capacity to deliver it, the structural limitation at the micro-level makes it harder to supply the deep, innermost part of a large muscle group. 3. Blood Flow Compression: During intense contraction, large muscles increase intramuscular pressure, compressing the blood vessels within them. This restricts blood flow and makes oxygen delivery harder, not easier.
As a control, perhaps you should do it again, but have a one minute gap between each of you, with the lightest starting first and heaviest starting last. (I know you'd love that)
Thanks @daniellloyd100, it WAS a top notch scientific study and provokes lots of questions to consider for another GCN video…. For instance bringing the power curve into the discussion…
Enjoyable video and I enjoyed the fun/science balance. As a rider that’s system weight of around 95kg I’m glad to add this as a solid excuse when I’m chasing my skinny friends up hills.
Great video! What about perceived exertion? Was it easier for the bigger riders to maintain a lower watts per kilo but over a longer time? We need a flatland test!
I'm really happy for the last little bit of the video, saying that heavier isn't all that bad. Up until then, I was contemplating cutting my legs off to get lighter!
The prediction was 8 minutes difference, but the actual result was over 9 minutes! Are you surprised? What other factors do you think impact a rider's climbing speed? 👇
Depends. 87kg of raw muscles, lean person or 87kg person with 20kg body fat? 87kg BMI 27(Obese) but been riding for 30+ years will be faster than 65kg BMI 15, riding 1 week. 😂
@harimathur2191they were holding the same power unless he couldn't hold it that shouldn't matter
More weight means more dimension. If 0,5 mm thick differences for spoke matter, what about 2 - 10 cm differences for cyclist body?
@Cloud-zq8mftrue also dans group was kinda drafting
GCN, next time (if you haven't done it already), do an easy companion video by having everyone coast down a gradual slope, without any pedaling, starting from wobbling in a track stand and letting gravity alone pull you downhill. Then compare system weights, tire pressure, tire width, aerodynamics, bike position (tucked into the drops or upright), etc.
Can you do the same but everyone push the same Watts per Kilo !
Exactly, that would be a better/ fairer comparison
Agreed. They can't leave us hanging. We need to know...
I think there is an old CGN executing that experiment. I’m to lazy searching the back catalog
Noooo they failed this simple thing..
Yeah. I can't do 250w anyway so not that useful a video
"I can't clip in. I'm Matt Stephens". 🤣
😂
Classic 😅
😂😂
Only the hardest of hardcore GCN fans will get this cheeky reference! (Matt had a little appearance in another climbing video not too long ago...)
A group ride with as many GCN, GTN, GMBN, and EMBN alumni as possible, in person and/or virtual, would be awesome.
So in other words using your formula I should make the top of the climb in an ambulance. Seems about right.
As a 58‑year‑old amateur rider, I’ve lost around 20 kg over the past year through changes to my diet. I commute by bike about 60 km a day on a mostly flat route (around 150 m of climbing each way). Since losing the weight, my average commuting speed has increased by roughly 3-6 km/h depending on headwinds or tailwinds, and my average heart rate has dropped for the same effort.
We’re all different and we all approach exercise and fitness for our own reasons, but for me a combination of diet and simply enjoying my cycling has made me fitter, more confident, and happier on the bike.
Congrats on the weight loss and thanks for sharing about your experience!
Do you know if your power has increased in addition to the weight loss?
20kg in a year sounds like a lot! I guess your original diet wasn't great. 😂
czy 10 czy 20 czy 40kg to niewiele mówi bez reszty danych - wazna jest ze forma jest lepsza
Very well done on the weight loss and some interesting data. Fair play to you!💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
Pogacar doing that climb at 20mph is just mental! I'll add that 25% of power is used on a 1% grade is amazing, I'd never guessed that.
I can't even hold 20 mph for long on a flat road.
Me neither
You really needed to plot that on a graph.
I kept waiting for a graph 😂.
@RobbyNowellsame!!
I wish I could pace a steady 250 W 😂
🥲
Did you hear the comment near the end of "Relatively low pace of 250w"? I feel personally attacked. :)
threshold vo2 max for me hahahaha at 69-70kg @ 250w FTP on average thattttt's like 3.4w/kg long as a stay around or under 3.4w/kg it'll be HARD but should be sustainable for a bit at least this climb of 20-30 mins, might be 10/10 RPE though
I did 2 minutes intervals at this the other day and was dying.
At 70kg, that’s 3.6wkg for the lighter riders.. fine for a 15 minute climb, but not so for an hour 👍🏽
The one I've been waiting for
Im 110kg. Im hoping this vid validates my excuses over the years...
You need to all ride up the climb together now, and then let us know the average wattage difference between everyone. This will give us an idea of the % based on weight we need to produce when riding with a lighter rider or a heavier rider.
As a former 105kg cyclist who’s dropped 25kg - the ability to repeat hills and get out of the saddle is the biggest difference I see. Even when I had an ftp 20% higher than currently I wouldn’t recover once I went into z4-5 and the rest of the ride would be at z3 or above. Now even a short downhill gets me back down to z2.
I concur, I can climb for 1 hour out of the saddle, maybe more I don’t know it is boring and you can injured you knees but it makes a huge difference on steep climb
I’m not sure about scientific accuracy of this experiment, but it’s just great to see so many GCN presenters in one video!!
You are saying their power meters are Shimano's...
More GCN presenter collabs to come!
@gcn Please
I like that that this was done with realism of drafting and whole system weight - first time I've seen it done like this.
I was disappointed the group didn’t freewheel down and time yourselves that way. I wanted to see the big guys one. 😊
Aw yeah this would have a been a nice ending to the video!
Unfortunately, the speeds we big guys can hit on the descents does not make for the time we lose on the climbs 😤
"I cant clip in, I'm Matt Stephens" 😂😂😂 classic line from Dan
Made me laugh too
I didn’t realize what percentage of power is required to overcome gravity at steeper gradients. Thank you for sharing that.
As a rider with a total system weight of 63Kg I don't think I would be able to hold the "relatively low power" of 250Watt for the entire climb xD
Lol every power is relatively to someone else, as a 53kg rider, I have pushed 300W for 20min and 370W for 6min.
You need to train more lol
@jaredfontaine2002 not necessarly, maybe just change alimentation. I just train between 150h and 200h per year to put my power record, it is not always about riding hundreads and hundreads hours to have more power.
@jaredfontaine2002 sadly my genetics just suck a.s xD.
@cherriaganaWell Blame your parents lol
Most interesting observation was that Max was clearly gassed, huffing puffing, well beyond aerobic only, looked like he was near his limit to make 250W while Giorgio was nose breathing, very little obvious exertion, probably struggling to keep under 250W. Would be interesting to see the result of a race to see who had the best power relative to their weight, and start and finish at the base so the descent was included.
Seeing all the GCN presenters from different countries line up makes me think it's about time for GCN in Flanders. So many great ex pro's who'd make very capable presenters. Combine that with some of the most iconic bits of cycling heritage and I think you're in for a reasonably succussful channel. Doing it in Dutch and getting a presenter from the Netherlands would also open up to a potentially much larger demographic. Think about it.
Btw great video, interesting results as well. A gradient of 1% already taking up about 25% of your power it just insane.
Hi everyone. Glad so many of you are enjoying this video. To be clear, this is not a top notch scientific experiment that will appear in peer reviewed journals - it's a bit of fun with an interesting outcome.
Thanks for your suggestions - on our list for future videos:
1. Everyone rides up at the same w/kg
2. All of us add weight to be the same as the heaviest and then race to the top.
Great video. Want to see what watt difference the heaviest needs to finish at the same time as the lightest up the hill.
@danielloyd100 loved this video. Just been on Grand Canary and felt sorry for my self;) iam +105 kg and did my best at the Soria climb at 280 w, restday after that. Distanced by my lighter (and strong) friends up the hills.
Feeling better after this video, iam not so bad, speciellt on the flat;)
These new helmets look like you're wearing marshmallows on your head 😂Sorry
It is presented as a bit of fun and enjoyed as such. If you wanted it to appeal to a (literal) wider audience you should have invited me and my 140 kg system weight to show how slow someone can be!
Also, maybe can consider a very similar test (under same conditions) but this time everyone holds same speed. Probably use close to highest speed that heaviest person can do!. This way we can see watt and watt/kg difference. Only problem, road might get block :).
I'm glad to see my stats represented in Giorgio's weight profile. Thanks for representing us heavier lads
Yeah, me too.
I think if they had weight categories in racing I would've done pretty well!
when you then think than some world tour pros are as light as 60kg the difference becomes huge
These are the kind of videos that make me consistently come back to GCN
13:10 "Relatively low power output"... double my FTP...😮
8:20 "Having a reasonably nice chat at 250 watts". At 250 watts I'm breathing out my @$$ and dying after five minutes. 😱
It's just a reminder that as much as we hear teasing from one presenter to another over there, we're still talking about former professional cyclists!
I don't know my ftp but as a rec rider with a system weight of about 72, 180w or less would be sustainable for this duration. I think there needs to be some real world testing with avid riders that are not motivated by racing and/or performance. I have seen many heavier riders pass me on grades above 10%. Oddly enough I descend better than most even without any aero wheels etc...
That Matt Stephens reference gave me a hearty laugh!
For those old enough to know 😆
@Phaidrus Haha!
Lest we forget
You should have done a second run, all out race mode. To see if you can train to overcome the Defizit of weight.
Agree
As a heavier individual and newer cyclist, I've been kinda stunned at how much Zwift punishes my weight on climbs.. now I see that it does so because of the real work physics simulation.. it's amazing to actually see the difference.. and absolutely reinforces my drive to lose weight.. so cool. Thanks for putting this together!
Me too. I seem to go into reverse gear when on Zwift when the climbs start
This was an interesting one especially the power to gradient ratio.
seeing all the presenters lined up just reinforces how much I miss having a woman presenting! would love to see more representation on GCN
Absolutely LOVE when the great riders and hosts from other countries come together- it’s really brilliant for those of us (okay, me) here in the states where we’re generally riding within our own country.
It's everything 😂 I have to push near 300 watts while my buddy pushes 180.
It's great to once again see Dan on the bike.
What you have to keep in mind is that the weight difference here is 35 kg. That's about 100 times the difference between a Sora and an Ultegra groupset. It's not that, in the weight-aero discussion, weight doesn't matter, but even building a 1 kg bike would just change the difference here from 72-108 to maybe 72-100. In other words, for most cyclists, the easiest way to get better at climbing is to train better, lose some weight, increase the W/kg, rather than buy a 2000 £/€/$ groupset or 3000 £/€/$ wheels.
I can confirm this. I'm suck at climbing and still is.
My way? Keep climbing and training. Lose 5 Kg of my body weight from 90 (I'm overweight). Then I up my Sora's Sprocket from 28T to 34T and the rear derailleur to HG. Now I'm smiling when climbing.
Much more affordable than changing the whole groupset.
NB:
Still suck on higher gradient. 😂
Ofcourse. But you can do both. I lost 10kgs and my bike lost 2kgs.
It's not that simple, we all have our limits.
I'm quite skinny, and to climb faster I'd need to grow more muscles, but first I'd need to gain weight for that...
Buying a low weight race bike is comparable to buying a sports car. It’s not a practical thing, but a fun thing to have. It’s a luxury item.
@DR_1_1 you don’t have to gain weight. You have to make a specific training to build your muscles. Doing that you might lose some fat but at the end having more muscles your weight can be a little higher. If you have an in-house trainer try 70-80% of your ftp power at 50-55 rpm for 12 min 3x with some 3 minutes recovery inside.
An experiment I’d like as an offshoot of this one would be everyone climb at the same pace but with the best climbers easing off to match the heavier (up to and including the heaviest) riding bikes augmenting e-power. The numbers generated as a sum of rider + electric motors would be quite eye opening. 😅
A graph (weight versus time) would have been helpful.
Shouldve also compared the weight in the downhill section
I might be slow on the way up but tables are turned on the way back down!
Heavy riders can go quicker on the down hill side, but, we are slower in the turns and our breaking must be very dependable and well dosed. I speak from experience going up and down the Venteux and Galibier with my friends. I stand 2 meters and weigh 106 kgs (not counting bike, equipment, and clothes) where as my friends weigh around 30 kgs less than I, and are much shorter (less wind resistance, lower center of gravity). I'm always the last to arrive, either direction. That what makes me unique!😊
Which is heavier, a tonne of lead or a tonne of feathers?
@FrenchSquareDancerYou are as much a unicorn as Connor is.
Nice one lads.
Would be nice to see you two climb at 250 w then climb again at 250 w with added weights.
The shot of all 10 GCN presenters was epic!!
all over the road at the start, was so cool! it was so funny how it wasn't a race as expected, they all just slowly started riding!
Thanks for the inspiration!
I love climbing, I always have. I'm 74-82 depending on the activity and 190 tall. I think these are okay measurements to go quickly uphill. Most of all, climbing is a mental thing. You have a clear obstacle, and it's just you and the mountain. You fight or go home. I love it.
Yeah.. I go home.
Super interesting video! Thank you
cheers Derick!
Great episode! Very cool to see all the presenters together. It would have been fun to watch you all do the climb a second time just to "go for it" and see what the time differences would have been.
This is a good idea! Maybe one for another video!
I love this style of video! as a science and cycling nerd its bang on with enjoyable and educational!!! GCN knocking it out of the park as always.
Awesome, thanks so much for the feedback!
Very good video 👌 it would have been nice to also have tested how many more watts it would have taken for the heavier rider to keep up with the lighter one. Probably pretty much the same W/kg ?
It would also be nice next to test it on the flat, same watts and then same W/kg to see how much faster the heavier rider would in theory be 💪
lets see what we can do in the future!
Thanks for the great experiment! I love the stuff you all put together.
As an 130kg rider I can guarantee you it has an huge impact. But try and catch me of the downhill. Even tandem bikes struggle to catch me. 😊
Two of me on a tandem would still weigh less than you. I'm rubbish on a TT.
Great illustration of how well the climbing calculator works. Enjoyed watching the demo. Nice to see all the presenters.
thanks Shakespeare, by the way, we are big fans of your work too!
Il problema è che in Italia si mangia troppo bene... vero @maranga @brambo ? 😅
Super episode and extremely interesting..
cheers Andy!
Not sold on the all white helmets.
Black or red would be 100% better!
In theory, they could keep you head cooler for longer in the sun.
They are awful! Period
@OperationDarksideConsidering they were worn just by the British GCN presenters in a cloudy day in January doesn't make any sense. The white straps are just made to become filthy in no time...KR
Yes, hideous in any color.
It would be really interesting to see the same experiment run but all doing the same power/system weight. Also interesting if that was done on a climb with a shallow section and a steep section and a comparison on those sections.
Loved this content - there is so much more on this subject you can do. Heart rates, all sticking together (various powers), different tyres - the list is endless. Works really well with so many of you.
thanks peter! we'll see what we can do!
It's worth pointing out that those numbers quoted at 6:23 are heavily dependent on speed. At higher power and therefore speed, weight becomes less significant with respect to aerodynamics. The power exerted against gravity scales with speed linearly (mgsinΘ*v) whereas the power exerted against aerodynamics scales with speed cubed (1/2ρCdAv^3). Tadej should be much more concerned with being aero and we mortals with weight even for the same climb.
Assuming an 80kg system on a 5% gradient, at 250W, 80 percent of work might go into gravity but at 500W it'd be more like 65%. This is assuming a reasonable CdA and Crr
This detail is fantastic
grande Giorgione!
This doesn't bode well for my trip to Mallorca in March
Im going there also in March solo 😂 staying in port de pollenca if you want to say hi 😂
you should do it again but in a staggered start to eliminate drafting and all the same tire at the same psi. It'd b interesting to see how much that changes the results of the experiment.
I am 106, I think I’m getting an ebike after this
You've done well to get to that age. Dan
@gcnWatching GCN keeps my heart pumping 😊
@gcn I believe he's referring to his weight 🙃😆
An e-bike has to be better than the steam-powered bikes of your youth!
@ebutuoyYTSteam was too expensive. It was powered by what I believe you call a knitting motor.
Very handy for sprinting and dangerous over short distances. Just like Gimli 😊
Great to know what to expect when climbing Coll de Rates in 3 weeks with my first road bike. Been gravel biking so far. Cant wait to escape the indoor trainer and Norwegian winter 😅
This is my reminder to get that diet sorted before spring/summer.
I love flexing my descending muscle. Passing everyone down a big hill is so liberating!!!
Dan I’m a reasonably physically bike fit 72 year old. After recent (1.5 yrs) double knee replacement surgery I decided on a new gravel bike. I love climbing and was wondering how much bike weight plays in climbing efficiency. My bike is close to 11 kg and my “first thing in the morning” weight is 72kg. A few people I know have Cervelo road bikes around the 7kg mark. Cheers Gerard (Melb, Australia)
I am someone with similar stats to you. The weight difference is just the ratio of all-up weights, like they suggested in the video. So only a few percent. But potentially a stiffer frame and faster tyres on a road bike will make a measurable difference as well. And the road bike will feel faster. The feeling is maybe more important than the actual statistics suggest.
@AdrianFaggAdrian thanks mate for your comments. Interesting about the “faster feel” of the stiffer road bike. I’ve already changed my tyres to Pirelli PZero Race TLR and that makes a difference. Think I’ll stick with the gravel bike as the frame geometry is kinder to my body! Gerard
I love how Dan "commentate" on things, Great content as always guys!
WTF are those helmets 😂
Ollie needs to size up anyway :)
Pretty sure they're 'stackhats" from the 1980's that have been dipped into a large bucket of white house paint.
Thanks for putting this together! I don't suppose you could turn Ollie loose with his glasses? Would love to see tire sizes and pressures, even if you can't get in to tire brand specifics because of (potential) sponsorship conflicts.
nice video guys!! But those helmets are a crime against humanity😬
why? they basically wear a combination of the most common helmets
Would have been good fun to do the experiment in reverse too, coming down the hill, and see if the result would match the other way around.
It makes a huge difference. For health and turning 50 reasons. I've lost 16kg in 6 months. It makes a massive difference on the bike.
Now I am going to buy a titanium bike that's heavier to compensate. 😂
Love the channel - always enjoy the videos. Apologies if this is a bit off topic, but one small thing I’d personally love to see more of over time is a wider range of cycling stories and perspectives. Cycling culture is way broader than what usually gets shown - from places like Eritrea, which has a really rich cycling history, to closer to home. There are UK cycling groups centred around Black and brown communities (like Black Cyclists Network or Women of Colour Cycling Collective) doing great stuff that rarely gets much visibility. Feels like there’s a lot of interesting ground there if you ever wanted to explore it.
New helmets look terrible😂
The van rysel ones are great though!
@M.A.R.I.O.N.A.Syep, not bad skin
white straps are a no no.
Like children’s helmets from the Chinese corner store (if you’ve visited Spain you know)
need different colour EPS
I've still gone for the crash diet option post-Christmas. I've lost about 12kg so far, aiming for 15. I'm sure that will help me more than a bit of indoor training for two months.
Sounds like you're smashing it!
In my experience even eating very little and exercising a lot you'll only lose 1kg a week. 4kg of what you've lost will be water, a other 2kg backlogged food, the other 6kg is the fat you've burned. Very good but don't expect to lose more than that per month.
love the videos with the other channels💪💪
Glad you like them!
Would like to see the same experiment, but going downhill
now do it again with the same w/kg
Yes +1, that will be super interesting
para que sea mas completo el experimento, te faltó hacer otro test añadiendole peso a las bicicletas para que todos quedaran pesando igual, y asi analizar quien tiene mejor eficiencia cardiovascular
Also have to add that the heavier you are the more O2 you need. Also, if you are bigger and wider the aero drag is even greater (even on the flat) . Obviously I’m a big lad (135kg rider weight) and trying to get every excuse in!!
There was a CGN video where Ollie concluded a round and smooth beer belly is more aero than a six pack
Very good point. I may be about 100kg but adding in system weight clearly matters too. It's a good video to show what too expect on long climbs at steady state watts. 2 watts per kg sounds good to me lol
My rider weight is about 68 kg, my good friend's weight is about 120 kg. On a windy day with gusts of wind I really struggle to keep up with him on the flat (when I'm not riding in his slipstream). He ploughs through any gust of wind whilst I am slowed down by it considerably.
Obviously he struggles much more on climbs where I have a clear advantage.
@gerhardschneider7506I’m good in a tail wind but in a head wind my wide shoulders are a hinderance!
Would be very interesting to redo this test and have everyone be at 3W/Kg system weight
You all have been hitting it out of the park with the content as of late.
Please do a follow up with everyone doing the same w/kg and another where everyone sticks together
Love seeing people post about losing weight and getting super fit - that’s honestly awesome and I’m happy for them.
But for those of us in the “Clydesdale” category, the reality is different. We’re usually rolling up to the top of the climb last, getting almost no recovery because the group’s “been waiting forever,” (and then wondering why we're not showing up to every group ride 🤔).
Personally, I’ll often roll out 5-10 minutes early just so I can tag the top of the first climb with everyone else. Then when the jokes start about “yeah we were waiting for the whole group 😉,” I just say, “Cool, now try strapping three modern bikes to your back and climbing that.”
The point is: there are a ton of bigger riders out there who ride hard, train consistently, and still can’t escape basic physics. In a sport obsessed with ultra‑light bikes, aero everything, and fast group rides, larger cyclists end up feeling unseen - like we don’t quite “fit” the image of what a cyclist is supposed to look like or perform.
So to my fellow big riders hanging tough at the back: you’re not invisible, and you’re not alone. We belong here just as much as anyone else 💪🏽😮
Looked like a group of riders doing a froomy all looking at a computer whilst missing amazing scenery
White helmet straps are a fail.
Finally a video that I can relate too. I've lost 6kg on Zwift and there's a big difference on climbs. I cant wait until the spring to find out on the road. But going from 104 to 98kg is huge.
great work on the weight loss!
Its a great experiment 🎉😂
No mountains in South Florida, but a fantastic episode.
I'm surprised the impact of having more muscle mass on the heart wasn't mentioned. Having more muscle mass has a complex, dual- faceted impact on cardiovascular health and performance. While higher muscle mass improves metabolic health, blood pressure management, and structural support, it simultaneously increases the oxygen demand on the heart and requires higher energy consumption during endurance activities.
You mean more watt is more fuell?
@2adamastNo, more muscle mass requires more fuel. If you have more muscle mass it becomes increasingly difficult to deliver oxygen deeper into the muscles.
Why More Muscle Mass Limits Oxygen Delivery
1. Lower Relative Oxidative Capacity: Research indicates a strong, consistent inverse relationship between muscle fiber size and oxidative capacity (the ability to use oxygen for energy). Larger, faster-twitch muscles are generally less efficient at using oxygen than smaller, endurance-oriented muscles.
2. Increased Metabolic Demand: More muscle mass means more tissue that needs oxygen. While the total body might have the capacity to deliver it, the structural limitation at the micro-level makes it harder to supply the deep, innermost part of a large muscle group.
3.
Blood Flow Compression: During intense contraction, large muscles increase intramuscular pressure, compressing the blood vessels within them. This restricts blood flow and makes oxygen delivery harder, not easier.
As a control, perhaps you should do it again, but have a one minute gap between each of you, with the lightest starting first and heaviest starting last. (I know you'd love that)
I love experiments with the presenters from the other countries! Maybe it's time for a tandem bike for 10!😂
Buena prueba.
Por el peso Me siento más identificado con los participantes Italianos.
Saludos desde Argentina 🇦🇷
Sorry guys, but the new helmets are all I can focus on. Not a good look with those white ones
Your narcissism appears to be overpowering road safety. I'd rather look like a tw*t than be run over.
Very good video
Thanks!
The percent of power used to overcome gravity was considerably more than I expected.
Thanks @daniellloyd100, it WAS a top notch scientific study and provokes lots of questions to consider for another GCN video…. For instance bringing the power curve into the discussion…
cheers Nick!
Enjoyable video and I enjoyed the fun/science balance.
As a rider that’s system weight of around 95kg I’m glad to add this as a solid excuse when I’m chasing my skinny friends up hills.
Great video! What about perceived exertion? Was it easier for the bigger riders to maintain a lower watts per kilo but over a longer time?
We need a flatland test!
I saw you Daniel a couple of weeks ago at parkrun. It took my by surprise when you ran past me
Great intro shot!
Need another video at race pace and see who would win.
I'm really happy for the last little bit of the video, saying that heavier isn't all that bad. Up until then, I was contemplating cutting my legs off to get lighter!
Nice work!