Recovery Machine Speed Race 🏁NAVAC NRDD Digital vs. Appion G5 Twin
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- Опубликовано: 2 янв 2020
- Bert and Jesus host a recovery machine speed race. They set the record straight on the real verdict of NAVAC NRDD Digital vs. Appion G5 Twin. Bryan also gives some general tips and best practices to follow during refrigerant recovery.
Regardless of the recovery machine you use, you'll get a faster recovery if you remove the Schrader cores. You'll also benefit from using a high-quality filter-drier to filter out contaminants before they reach the machine or the tank.
Bert and Jesus ensure that they have a proper setup with as few variables as possible so that they produce the best, most honest results. The Fieldpiece probes attached to the origin tanks are responsible for showing the pressure throughout the test. There are also gauges attached to the recovery tanks to measure the pressure of those tanks during recovery.
After the scales are cleared, the hoses are purged, and the equal tank capacities are confirmed, the race is ON! NAVAC maintains a comfortable lead over Appion throughout, and the race is over when the first Fieldpiece probe hits zero. NAVAC wins by an easy margin of 9 minutes!
Once the recovery is over, Bert purges the machines to get any extra refrigerant out. He and Jesus share their personal thoughts about each machine.
Sponsored by NAVAC: navacglobal.com/
Bryan Orr's article on Recovery Tank Capacity:
www.hvacrschool.com/important...
Read all the tech tips, take the quizzes, and find our handy calculators at www.hvacrschool.com/
I'd give up 10 minutes to have the smaller machine. Room is everything on a service truck.
Appion costs less and from your test is not far behind the more expensive NAVAC....I'll stuck to my G5 Twin
You should consider reshooting, and try only dumping the refrigerant into the vapor port of an inverted tank. The diptube adds a crap ton of resistance to recovery.
I noticed that too, Who recovers into the liquid side of a recovery tank? I appreciate the video though.
Faster is not always better. What's important is reliability. Let's test again when each unit is 2 years old.
Apron doesn't have a label saying "no user serviceable parts inside." All of the parts are available from Appion.
@@MarkCarpenterHVAC-me2jg all parts available on there website too. and they are surprisingly easy to rebuild.
Just a few comments sticking up for the G5 Twin. With California putting the brakes on HFCs, and R32 right around the corner. Having a recovery machine that can recover A2L refrigerants is probably going to be important. The G5 Twin is one of a few recovery machines that can recover A2L refrigerants. I have been looking, but haven’t seen any documentation that the NRDD is rated for A2Ls.
Also as a side note. The G5 Twin doesn’t need to purge, it doesn’t allow refrigerant to enter its crankcase, so there’s nothing to purge. Saving nine minutes is cool and all ,but I’m going to stick with my G5 for now.
Mark Carpenter haha thanks I switched over to the right comment. You are correct about the current listings, the literature is being updated/corrected to reflect that and include the A2L’s as well.
Here is the bulletin from NAVAC
navacglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/ServiceBulletin-A2L-Service-Notice.pdf
Great video. I love watching abdominal reading the comments. Getting out of school soon. Switching Over from electrical to hvac
Thanks alot ... I have a question in cooling and freezing rooms : what is the relation between room tempreture and saturation tempreture for freon in theevaporator coil ??
Great video. Bert makes life that much better!! BERT BERT
Cory Desormeaux every one needs a Bert
I am getting ready to purchase my scales. I have NAVAC smart pump so am looking at their scales. Also have the Feildpeice Job Link Probes Kit. So I am looking at their SRS3 scale that goes with Job Link. Also like the UEI WRSX scale. Also looking at the CPS cumpute-a-charge with the electronic solenoid valve. Please give me your opinion. Thanks from Tennessee, and God Bless. Thanks for all that Bert and Bryan have taught me.
Honestly this sold me on the Appion over the Navac, 10 minutes is nothing for recovering 22lbs at the cost of $250 dollars more and a larger unit (Which takes more space on the truck)
I guess recovery machines don't matter that much then.
Which port was the refrigerant leaving the tank from?
Thank sr. Another great video sr
Crazy. The Apppion G5 Twin is a beast by recovery standards. We use an old one that still kicks ass but that NRDD looks awefully tempting.
R32 is an A2L and it is going to replace R410 and many other refrigerants. The G5 is already rated for A2L refrigerants. I wouldn't touch this thing with a 10 ft pole.
Mark Carpenter the NRDD is rated for them as well.
@@AKHVAC
I don't see that in any of their documentation?
The refrigerants listed are:
Refrigerant TypeCategory lll:R-12,R-134a,R-401C,R-500
Category lV:R-22,R-401A,R-401B,R-402B,R-407C,R-408A,R-409A,R-411A,R-411B,R-412A,R-502,R-509
Category V:R-402A,R-404A,R-407A,R-407B,R-410A,R-507
P.S. we are in the wrong comment.
nice video and the Testo 550 (i think) is one of the best manifold gauge
Was both machines new appion looked used?
Wish the Fieldpiece MR45 was in this test also.
Roger F essentially it was
@@HVACShopTalk What kind of answer was that?
@@ScottAcy NAVAC makes the MR45
@@HVACShopTalk Well... Wha-da-ya-know. Thanks for the clarification. Are there any differance between the two besides the case?
Scott Acy I think there may be slight differences since the parent company wants theirs to be the best. Not sure of any specifics.
Was the G5 brand new like the Navac? If not this doesn't count. Apples to apples. Still a good video though. Thanks
The screen and the alarms look & sound like the Fieldpiece MR - 45 on the navac
Value the parent company in china makes both fieldpeice and Navac units. they are the same thing lol
Don't eat the yellow snow !!
Can you do fieldpiece mr 45 vs navac?
Give me the G5 all day, smaller and lighter, and easy to replace parts. Also refrigerant-isolated crankcase so no problem with A2L refrigerants.
and no digital screen that you risk smashing in the truck or in the field. Things happen and the more stuff to it the more stuff that breaks.
I can buy parts for my Appion G5 twin at my local Trane supplier. Can you buy parts for the other?
Danny Smith yes when I own the APPION I was finding I was always having to buy parts for it because it was always breaking down great selling point. Same goes for the Appian vacuum pump what a unreliable piece of shit it’s now a doorstop in my shop.
@@coldfinger459sub0 Replacing the power switch is the only thing I've had to replace in 10 years. I guess you use yours more often than I do.
@@coldfinger459sub0 just tell the people you don't properly know how to use tools.
I’d def dip my toes in the navac pool if they were available at our local parts house that way it be easier for warranty claims. Surprised it isn’t available at johnstone supply.
Aaron Arias
The Trane in my area and the Ferguson sell navac. I’m in buffalo ny
Why are you guys recovering vapor not liquid?
Derrick Garcia because vapor takes a lot longer to recover and is more realistic. As you can see once the liquid was gone the Appion can’t compete with anyone
This was my exact question evidently the new fangled digital machine can't recover liquid so if you redid the test and let him pull out of the liquid side of the tank I guess we would see a lot different results...
Appion with 1/2" megaflow hoses might make up for those 9 min.
3/8 hose w 1/4" fittings
It’s time to remake this video with the bigger brother NAVAC recovery machine. navacglobal.com/product/worlds-first-dc-inverter-4-cylinder-recovery-unit-nrc4m/ This four-cylinder recovery machine just stops all over the Fieldpiece and the APPION. And I believe it’s even 40% faster than the NAVAC NNRD. This four-cylinder recovery unit takes recoveries to a whole new level of benchmark that other refrigerant companies cannot even match or come close.
@@HVACHVACHVAC ?
Who works for NAVAC ?
The navac is nice but it looks large and heavy
The only drawback on the APPION, It doesn’t have a purge cycle. It’s compact size and fast recovery for liquid makes it a decent value. I was hoping APPION would update the G5.
I'm not positive about this but I'm pretty sure somewhere I seen before when you turn the suction side off it has a built-in purge to the high side...
@@jaminjimlpYes, I believe I did try this but after a period of time still had liquid trapped in the twin condenser. So for small recovery, It’s not the ideal recovery machine as some refrigerant will be lost.
@@rdalemd76 yeah well you lose refrigerant even if you put your gauges on a machine so that's going to happen it just kind of sucks now with propane being such a low amount of freon in the system already
The Navac looks like a copy of the MR 45.
PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Hello. I have been trying to find a way to reach you on HVACschool.com. So I will try through the comments section.
I am getting ready to buy a recovery machine. Which machine do you prefer between the NAVAC NRDD and the Feildpeice MR45...??? Taking into account speed, quality, LCD screen, etc.
This video gives the impression that proper recovery is only down to 0 psi. This is not the case. If it were, you could just chill the cylinder until the pressure went down to 0 psi, without ever haven taken a single ounce out. You are required to recover the refrigerant until the pressure STAYS at 0 psi at ambient temperatures. These tanks still had POUNDS of refrigerant left in them. That is not EPA recovery.
Take a look at EPA rules for high pressure refrigerants in systems containing less than 50lbs and get back to me
Take a look at 82.156 table 1 www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=085a41355598f2919b6655098a466757&mc=true&node=sp40.21.82.f&rgn=div6#se40.21.82_1156
Thanks for giving me the evidence to prove my point. The regulation says:
"Before opening appliances (except small appliances, MVACs, and MVAC-like appliances) or disposing of such appliances, technicians must evacuate the refrigerant, including all the liquid refrigerant, to the levels in Table 1 using a recovery and/or recycling machine certified pursuant to §82.158 unless the situations in paragraphs (a)(1) or (2) of this section apply."
I particularly like where it says, "INCLUDING ALL THE LIQUID REFRIGERANT". You see, the pressure falls in a refrigerant cylinder for one of two reasons. It is either getting empty or it is getting cold. This is the reason we do not use our gauges to MEASURE the weight of refrigerant in the system. There were POUNDS of liquid left in these cylinders. You can tell that by looking at the level of the frostline on the cylinder. There is liquid all the way up to the frost line (cold liquid). So, I think the regulations reinforce my initial assertion.
I fully understand what you are saying and the regulations have no reference that require for stabilization to ambient temperature here (that I can see) and that is why the regulations have varying standards based on refrigerant type and system capacity. I see nowhere that negatates the practice of pulling to zero and opening for service of equipment. In this case because we are demonstrating using tanks I can see your point but I’m also quite certain that there is no EPA official who would find what we did here to be a violation. If you feel otherwise I would encourage you to bring this video to the attention of Jeremy Arling at the EPA and ask for a position by his office. The refrigerant here is R410a which is a high pressure refrigerant.
Either way I fully appreciate what you are saying here and I wish we had included some detail to the effect that temperature of the vessel impacts the mass / density of refrigerant.
My main assertion is that pulling a system down to the pressure in the chart does not guarantee all the liquid is removed. My experience is that there is always liquid left at that point. So, if you let the temperature rise, and the pressure increases, that proves there is still liquid in the tank/system, because this pressure-temperature relationship occurs at saturation. Saturated conditions require liquid to be present. It was my mistake to say "at ambient temperatures". I should have said that one should pull down to the pressure in the table, let the tank/system warm up (somewhat) and if the pressure does not rise, then and only then are you done.
Now try ro recovery liquid :D and add to competition JB INDUSTRIES F6-DP :D
I dont trust in digital things, the dust, Rain and sun killing him.
Appion is a really heavy duty tool.
Bert looks like the druggie Dad who died in Dexter.
Hahahaha he does