How 2 use Fafnir: -Pick Loki -Go to age 4 -Kamikaze your goons in the enemy backline until a fafnir spawns -Enjoy melting them all This also works great with rock giant for an insta taunt they can't see coming!
The red border in the thumbnail is a bit of a mistake. At first glance I thought I had already watched this video, I could have easily skipped over it. When the bottom border is red it looks the same as a video I've already watched.
I think decreasing the bounty would be a terrible idea..from a game design perspective..balance is a different discussion. The "super strong unit but *insanely* punishing if you lose it" is its whole thing, thats the concept, that is its nieche. In my opinion what would make sense to do is to reduce its meele tankiness, maybe very slightly reduce its pierce tankiness and significantly increase the AOE damage it does (or perhpas increase it a bit and increase the range or the width of the cone). This way the nieche of the super expensive monster unit remains but it becomes clear how this unit should be used - nowdays its a unit that has a lot of its value in its ability to absorb damage yet you do not want it to die..soo..what is its optimal usage? Making it nore vulnerable to meele damage and very dangerous to massed human units would make the objecitve for both you and the enemy obvious - snipe the Fafnir and you get 300 gold and your human soldiers wont get burned alive...but if you cant snipe it with overwhelming pierce damage or find a way to engage it in meele (of course there are ranged heroes as well which is why I wouldnt say this idea is *that much* prone to snowball) your opponents Fafnir will find huge value...as it should considering the risk of even going for the Fafnir in the first place and not going for a unit such as Jotun or similar ones toss them into the battle, forget them and theyll be of siginifcant use. The risk you take by making a Fafnir should have clear objectives for you and the enemy which is why I think getting caught in meele or by heroes should be very punishing for the Fafnir player (as again that is this units entire game design nieche) but not managing to do it should yield great results & maybe even more importantly should look and feel good and flashy to motivate players to take that risk and go for a unit that isnt entirely a statchecker.
Second this. Your balance suggestion is exactly whats needed. At the moment it's in a weird limbo of tanky fast dragon that has this weird drawback when it dies? Reducing melee armour significantly, and dramatically increases increasing damage to the point it MELTS human units like a real dragon would is perfect. At the moment I really question if I get 600g 35favor of value from it and the answer is a lot of the time no
What if it dropped a gold patch rather then just going directly to a treasury? Would make it a powerful defensive unit and if used carelessly on the offense it would swing the game. Maybe even up its gold value. Or let it get more gold value and stats over time.
Yep. Valkyrie is an essential part if you want to use fafnir. Anything with a damage overtime role must have the support from healing. Fafnir is not something that can stand on its own, despite its amazing stats noted on its paper. Together with healing fafnir can perform its role.
Perhaps something worth considering: Fafnir's durability is so high compared to other myth units that it begs the question of what an opponent could spend the gold on that offers as much as fafnir does? If you need your myth units to soak the amount of damage fafnir can, you will need two of them or even more (colossus notwithstanding) and will need to spend more than 600 resources on that. The alternatives will offer more total damage if you invest that hard into them, but will also take more population etc. Furthermore, fafnir moves reasonably fast, builds faster than other myth units and only actually reaches his full cost *after* he dies, *if* he dies and *after* your opponent manages to spend the resources. You effectively get to take out a loan to finance your army with debt, except you might not even need to pay it back. If a gamestate is such that it can be closed out with a sufficiently beefy myth unit push, fafnir is the myth unit to do it.
Think many ppl underestimate the value of high HP. In the video, we see that fafnir's damage competes with other mythic-age myth units even in their ideal damage conditions, though he's never the strongest at a specific task. But 2x HP means the thing lives 2x as long, means it has 2x as much time to deal damage, means it deals 2x the damage. For an all-round beast good in almost every scenario other than the obvious scenarios where there are deadly heroes about, his value is consistent, and he's easily worth 2 avengers or 2 chimera. Also, money now is better than money later, and more powerful armies trade more efficiently. So it's not quite fair to consider him to be a 600 gold unit. The reality is that he IS a 300 gold unit, but he has a quota of 300 gold in terms of additional value he provides. we're talking about 4 human units worth of res. If utilized poorly, he won't meet his quota, but in most conditions, he'll kill 4 more human units than his counterparts.
I like Fafnir conceptually, but I agree that the conflict between using it as a frontline unit and the risk of giving 300 gold to your opponent is too much. Its current downside is flavourful and unique though; so maybe the best thing would be a combination of slightly increasing its base cost, and reducing its bounty to just 100 gold, or something.
I prefer to stay emotional about this character but it’s nice to know what it’s good at, and maybe more importantly bad at. (Also-it was nice learning a bit more about the other myth units too.)
He's pretty badass but 300 gold is just way too much to give to your opponent, especially for his current stats. It seems like they intended for him to be the best myth unit, but in reality he is just a good myth unit. He is tanky but if your opponent just gets some hero units or priest he will be taken out easily. I only go through Vidar because I want to nuke my opponent, almost never use more then the free fafnir you get.
Wow, the man actually did the Fafnir video. And he was quick at that. I take off my hat to you, sir! I am of the opinion that the 300 gold donation should stay for the flavor of it, but I agree it should more damage.
My own impression was that he's strong, but not that much stronger than other myth units. I like the idea of the gold on death, but think Fafnir could take a small buff to further compensate for that (perhaps a little extra damage in either its attack or its aura, or wider area for its attacks/aura). It's tankiness should work well with healing though. I don't think decreasing the gold penalty is a good idea (from a game design perspective) as that is its thing, and it also currently has a nice 1:1 cost:penalty ratio where gold is concerned.
As a freyr main playing in 1650-1700 range I believe the unit is very strong and also well balanced. I use them often and they give an incredible advantage in battle field. The fact that they don’t rely on a special but instead deal a constant stream of incredible dps at any point can be an advantage
He is good on the bait sense. Like you bring a bunch of them and the opponent is gonna be drawn to focus him for the gold reward and the fact that he is gonna be doing that constant scaling aoe, but if they do, then you can have all your other guys punching for free, and they kinda have to focus him, it's not an ignorable unit by any means.
I feel that fafnir should be doing considerable crush. It should be a follow up to the explosion where you've deleted the army with your God power and you walk fafnir in to burn down the buildings. The tankyness would make it extremely difficult to take down as the enemy remaxes, pushing out small numbers of units wouldnt take it down fast enough as you burn all the military buildings to the ground
off course there is also the aspect of greed in multiplayer, that waving Fafnir around a bit might cause them to make mistakes and overextend. Which is surprisingly on brand for Fafnir.
As someone who plays Loki, I always like seeing one spawn. In terms of the 300 gold going to your opponent, if your Fafnir has taken out a lot of their units/buildings then maybe the trade is still a net positive when thinking of the gold they spent on thos units? That said, I would say the fire giant might be a better option, just.
This video is exactly what I was looking for. After I finished watching I played a match going with the mindset of trying to keep them alive. I got 6 fafnir and like 16 valkyrie for healing and the opponent couldn't take them down. The healing isn't that strong but with good micro you can keep them alive well enough to put punishing pressure against anyone. Long enough to have your second army attack them from behind. They are a great distraction that can't be ignored and I think that purpose serves them well. If anyone wants to use fafnir I think valkyrie is a necessity. In my opinion fafnir is incomplete without them. Especially when their role is to put damage overtime and the only strategy that makes it work is to have healing a part of the strategy so they can stack up that overtime damage.
I think it's fine and balanced conceptually. While it has a high favor cost, it does have a quick training time, which means it at points can be deployed in relatively hurry to combat a raid. However once your opponent knows you are making these things, they will begin to build counter units. Furthermore, it doesn't have any unique technologies attached to it, so it can be created at its fullest form at a rapid rate, without any preparations (so long you have the favor). To me that screams a myth unit you use to surprise your enemy. If they use an army composition that Fafnir is good against, there's a big advantage to quickly making a few to overwhelm your enemy. Its downside however makes it a poor unit to create your main build around, as revealing it to the enemy too early, will cause the enemy to react to your unit composition instead of you reacting to their unit composition. That is at least the design philosophy I see behind Fafnir. Not as a primary, but a reactionary unit that you only deploy, when the right time calls for it.
Hey, if you go to the mods section on age of mythology, search up either “loggy” who is the creator OR “advanced tooltips” then simply install and restart your game
I wish all civs have limited access to heroes. That way myth units would actually be viable as a main army comp rather than thinking if you should add 1, 2 or 3 to your army at most (anything more and you are throwing the game)
You dont have to lose Fafnir. If you go through Aiger and get Feasts of renown, you can easily heal it before it dies, the healing stacks around hill amd asgardian forts and tcs, so making a good healing station isnt a problem.
Magic, can you consider making a video about markets and how to abuse it, I think having them in classical age is such an important change and I don't see many people using it yet, but I strugle about the market changes and upgrades to take :)
I like to think about it that way: if 1 Fafnir deals dmg equally to 600 gold and those 35 favor it gets "net neutral" , any additional damage it deals is a net positive then. (?) Also, I think the GP provided in combination with a Fafnir timing has devastating potential
Since fafnir is from freyr u can use aegir and freya to hold ur backlines better upgrade from fort and walkyrie can heal him also fafnir have a little range so u can block way to him with mele soldiers/units
hi Magic i think you are right they need to reduce the 300 gold you give to your oopponent or increse his damage or increase his breath range can be nice too
Doesn't feel worth imo. Like sure it's strong on occasion but in general circumstances, it always feels bad man. In RTS, you're expected to sacrifice your army so that 300 gold is guaranteed for the opponent and gold becomes way too important in Mythic games to warrant just giving it to the opponent for free. I like the gimmick cause it fits the lore but 300 gold is too much. I'd like to see them nerf the gold to 100 cause it would still be a negative but doesn't feel as bad cause you didn't just literally give them the resources for a Mythic age myth unit. I know it's asking for too much but I would like to see them spawn something akin to a Phoenix egg with the herdable mechanic. If you have control of the newly spawned let's say "gold stomach" then after the timer runs out the controller gets the gold. Would also need a depreciating gold value on the Fafnir itself where over time the gold that gets dropped upon death decreases until 0.
Hell yea canada bear makes an appearance! I agree that 300 gold penalty is far too extreme. As a mechanic I don't like it because it strongly disincentivises using the unit.
You must also weight advantages and costs of the unit in reltion to the other powers given by the god, i think fafnir plus nuke are a terribly strong combo
At the end of the day, i think its all comes down to how good you can micro fafnir. If you can micro and at the same time if you can heal him through your teammates than who care about giving away 300 gold?
I just think the mechanic of giving the opponent gold is too toxic of a mechanic to balance for a unit. Plus if we're talking about tanky myth units, heroic age units Freyr has access can fill the same role. It'd be understandable if the unit was a glass cannon, maybe. It's too situationally dependent on the match up, since you wouldn't want to give any Egyptian gold in a 1v1 as an example. I feel like Freyr in general is just not great at 1v1's, but excels in team games. It's a strange problem to have.
One question i wish you posed was 'can fafnir usually get 600 gold of value from fighting'. If he gets 600 gold worth of enemy kills then hes been cost effective
I think he is a very good unit if you play against AI who do not really focus units. But against competent players he is a bad unit, because on the frontline he will die to heroes easily especially mass priests or arci. If you want to keep him more safe in the backline then no reason to even create them. So if you play against AI use them, they are amazing. Against players no.
no special attack makes it work way too slowly to be worth the risk of -300 gold IMO. this test is most well suited for it's intended use case than any of the other myth units and it still didn't do particularly well.
300 seems too much. Personally think 100 would be reasonable. But also it builds in 12 seconds not 24 as others, it is a good bonus if resources is not a big issue for now. Magic, could you also compare with hekagigantuses (centi…something). The Atlantean myth unit. It seems very strong as well, but you don’t use them in the tests…(
Hey question out of topic: Is the Isis guide you made still up to date or is it not working properly anymore? im currently main on isis and using it, but im niot shure if its the best build order. If not: do you plan to make videos to update all build orders?
It still works for sure, however it’s a balanced build as it gives immediate scouting. The other builds and one I use right now is a fast flood of the Nile and pickaxe but you delay your first set of obelisks, I can make another one for sure later on
@@IamMagicAOM i really appericate that you take the time to answer m8! as a sc2 lover i know that i dont just used specific builds, but i changed them when i faced a specific race. May i ask how you change your strat when facing each of the 4 civs? When you have your build what do you change in it facing egypt, norse .... or dont you change a thing? Or do your instead of changing 1 strategy, have complete seperate strategys for each civilisation. Second question: is there a specific time you scout to see specific things ? For example when i played zerg in starcraft and faced a protoss i knew when he builds a warpgate at 3:50 with expansion, then he will be ready to attack at 7:50. (Times not correct dont remember the correct ones its just example) .So that way i went scouting and tried to find that at 3:50 and when finding it i knew i had 4 minutes peace since i knew an attack would be coming at earliest 7:50. Do you against the other civs also have things you try to find at a specific time that helps you anticipate their strategy? Just want to know what you do and what your thought process is when you play. I just cant imagine you blindly play down your strat. And hearing "look for a expansion and for barracks" isnt really helpful. Would like your insight if you have specific times in mind or specific times you scout and try to find something. If yes, maybe a video with all timings you know for each civs could be a really big help for all noobies out there. Including me at the moment. I am very grateful for you answers and reactions! Dont know any youtuber reacting to comments that much. Thank you! i of course upvote all videos of you :)
The unit is to hard to balance. If you put the reward at 150 it will be to strong to spam it . Maybe the kwy is to reduce a little bit the tankiness ,increase the dps and resuce the reward at 150 to make it more as a glass canon . At the end givig 150 gold will be not a problem if you kill unkt valu of 300.
Magic do you think if we ever get another major Norse god that 3 of his choices could be Freyr minor gods? Would mean more variety than like another Baldr or Skadi.
dragon look very cool, me love dragon. dragon donate gold to enemy, me still love dragon. want dragon to slightly buffer. dragon slightly buffer, me happy. seriously though i think it's fine to have setups like these where unit is riskier to use. Just needs slight stat adjustment to deal a bit more damage and i think he becomes very viable. only thing i do wonder is that by the time age 4 comes, fafnir inherently becomes harder to use cause everyone has the best heroes available to deal with it. other age 4 units that are popular are more specialized and hence see more use. Maybe slight nerf on hero damage against fafnir could motivate people to use it more? idk.
Is it possible to 'delete' Fafnir by yourself before is killed by your enemy, (when he is very low HP: 100 or less) that way the enemy would not get the gold? I remember watching the Armycore guide for Oranos vs Loki (in the old AOM:TT) in him twich channel and he 'prefeer' to delete his oracles (and other units) before give 'favor' to the norse.
you can delete him, but the gold will then be spread among your current opponents. (so for 1v1, it still just gives 300 gold to the enemy), though yes, deleting him does prevent norse players from generating favor from fighting it.
Its a team game unit as the discord comment said, tbh. Same as Colossus, Hydras, all giants, etc.... you dont havd the room to massthem in 1v1 specially this 300 gold penalty. Wich is bit of a shame cuz the myth units are the special part of this game and makibg them takes too many effort for not the best payback.
Well I disagree with you. I think it is busted 1v1 when you go for Freyja Age 2. The tankiness is huge, and so is the unit, so it is easy to micro them out of combat when they become low HP. Keep one Walkyrie at the back, heal them back to full HP, and boom, you almost never give gold the your opponent. Plus, it forces him to micro too. But yeah if you treat them like any other unit, I guess you are not optimizing as you should. Though I agree with Skiiage, Belerophon is a hard counter
It seems like the problem is his animation. It doesn't seem like it's true 144 DPS because it takes too long for it to attack a new target when you kill one
No, the DPS is accurate, that 144 DPS is just wrong in that it assumes 6 targets. In reality it does ~24 hack, 12 crush, 1 divine to individual units (6 projectiles / 3 sec attack = 2x base values, divine is alr per second).
You should test his ability withstand heroes... if you can snipe him with a bellerophon or some priests its easy money for a skilled human player, exactly that you didnt test :)
@@nikolaanicic3944 i know and thats why its so important ... if you can nuke the Fafnir with one strong greek or a few minor ranged heroes like a cupple of priests and or a pharao then he is not worth , if he is so beefy that he delays your enemies abilities to nuke your myth units and for that reduce your dps that less that you win a fight then he is absolutely worth his effective 600 gold costs (we do not better talk about a super late game without any gold left, then the answer is very simple .... no way in hel)
nice video but the zoom on the different myth unit stats is just terrible. Much better to just have a red circle drawn around what you're talking about or just have the screen only show the important stuff, that move and zoom hurts to look at.
Not sure if it was a bug or something but i was playin skirmish and i accidentally kill my fafnir i think with a good power or something. and i got 300 gold. Ill see if this is still the case if so. it will be totally broken. Just kill your unit and get and additional 300 gold lol.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
The quality on these are unreal, keep it up!
I bought a Fafnir from an Arkansas pet store in back in 85. He ate my dog. Then he ate my house. No, Fafnir isn't worth it.
Haha
Haha
Your pet dragon needed to be put down after that. Jesus!
At least he didnt burnt your house down man.
He ate my cattle and threw my hud in the river!
the best fafnirs are the ones your hersir spawn as Loki!
Still though something really bugs me when my enemy gets 300 gold, i had one spawn only for Bellerophon to delete it for a free Gold boost.
How 2 use Fafnir:
-Pick Loki
-Go to age 4
-Kamikaze your goons in the enemy backline until a fafnir spawns
-Enjoy melting them all
This also works great with rock giant for an insta taunt they can't see coming!
The red border in the thumbnail is a bit of a mistake. At first glance I thought I had already watched this video, I could have easily skipped over it.
When the bottom border is red it looks the same as a video I've already watched.
Gotcha, good point! Thanks
Agree
I think decreasing the bounty would be a terrible idea..from a game design perspective..balance is a different discussion. The "super strong unit but *insanely* punishing if you lose it" is its whole thing, thats the concept, that is its nieche.
In my opinion what would make sense to do is to reduce its meele tankiness, maybe very slightly reduce its pierce tankiness and significantly increase the AOE damage it does (or perhpas increase it a bit and increase the range or the width of the cone). This way the nieche of the super expensive monster unit remains but it becomes clear how this unit should be used - nowdays its a unit that has a lot of its value in its ability to absorb damage yet you do not want it to die..soo..what is its optimal usage? Making it nore vulnerable to meele damage and very dangerous to massed human units would make the objecitve for both you and the enemy obvious - snipe the Fafnir and you get 300 gold and your human soldiers wont get burned alive...but if you cant snipe it with overwhelming pierce damage or find a way to engage it in meele (of course there are ranged heroes as well which is why I wouldnt say this idea is *that much* prone to snowball) your opponents Fafnir will find huge value...as it should considering the risk of even going for the Fafnir in the first place and not going for a unit such as Jotun or similar ones toss them into the battle, forget them and theyll be of siginifcant use.
The risk you take by making a Fafnir should have clear objectives for you and the enemy which is why I think getting caught in meele or by heroes should be very punishing for the Fafnir player (as again that is this units entire game design nieche) but not managing to do it should yield great results & maybe even more importantly should look and feel good and flashy to motivate players to take that risk and go for a unit that isnt entirely a statchecker.
Second this. Your balance suggestion is exactly whats needed. At the moment it's in a weird limbo of tanky fast dragon that has this weird drawback when it dies?
Reducing melee armour significantly, and dramatically increases increasing damage to the point it MELTS human units like a real dragon would is perfect.
At the moment I really question if I get 600g 35favor of value from it and the answer is a lot of the time no
What if it dropped a gold patch rather then just going directly to a treasury? Would make it a powerful defensive unit and if used carelessly on the offense it would swing the game. Maybe even up its gold value. Or let it get more gold value and stats over time.
The key is to heal your fafnir so your enemy will not get a single penny!
Yep. Valkyrie is an essential part if you want to use fafnir. Anything with a damage overtime role must have the support from healing. Fafnir is not something that can stand on its own, despite its amazing stats noted on its paper. Together with healing fafnir can perform its role.
Perhaps something worth considering:
Fafnir's durability is so high compared to other myth units that it begs the question of what an opponent could spend the gold on that offers as much as fafnir does? If you need your myth units to soak the amount of damage fafnir can, you will need two of them or even more (colossus notwithstanding) and will need to spend more than 600 resources on that. The alternatives will offer more total damage if you invest that hard into them, but will also take more population etc.
Furthermore, fafnir moves reasonably fast, builds faster than other myth units and only actually reaches his full cost *after* he dies, *if* he dies and *after* your opponent manages to spend the resources. You effectively get to take out a loan to finance your army with debt, except you might not even need to pay it back.
If a gamestate is such that it can be closed out with a sufficiently beefy myth unit push, fafnir is the myth unit to do it.
Think many ppl underestimate the value of high HP. In the video, we see that fafnir's damage competes with other mythic-age myth units even in their ideal damage conditions, though he's never the strongest at a specific task. But 2x HP means the thing lives 2x as long, means it has 2x as much time to deal damage, means it deals 2x the damage. For an all-round beast good in almost every scenario other than the obvious scenarios where there are deadly heroes about, his value is consistent, and he's easily worth 2 avengers or 2 chimera.
Also, money now is better than money later, and more powerful armies trade more efficiently. So it's not quite fair to consider him to be a 600 gold unit. The reality is that he IS a 300 gold unit, but he has a quota of 300 gold in terms of additional value he provides. we're talking about 4 human units worth of res. If utilized poorly, he won't meet his quota, but in most conditions, he'll kill 4 more human units than his counterparts.
Nice analysis !
I like Fafnir conceptually, but I agree that the conflict between using it as a frontline unit and the risk of giving 300 gold to your opponent is too much. Its current downside is flavourful and unique though; so maybe the best thing would be a combination of slightly increasing its base cost, and reducing its bounty to just 100 gold, or something.
0:12 Airfish, now I've seen it all ladies and gentlemen!
I prefer to stay emotional about this character but it’s nice to know what it’s good at, and maybe more importantly bad at. (Also-it was nice learning a bit more about the other myth units too.)
Glad you enjoyed it!
He's pretty badass but 300 gold is just way too much to give to your opponent, especially for his current stats. It seems like they intended for him to be the best myth unit, but in reality he is just a good myth unit. He is tanky but if your opponent just gets some hero units or priest he will be taken out easily. I only go through Vidar because I want to nuke my opponent, almost never use more then the free fafnir you get.
Wow, the man actually did the Fafnir video. And he was quick at that. I take off my hat to you, sir!
I am of the opinion that the 300 gold donation should stay for the flavor of it, but I agree it should more damage.
My own impression was that he's strong, but not that much stronger than other myth units. I like the idea of the gold on death, but think Fafnir could take a small buff to further compensate for that (perhaps a little extra damage in either its attack or its aura, or wider area for its attacks/aura). It's tankiness should work well with healing though. I don't think decreasing the gold penalty is a good idea (from a game design perspective) as that is its thing, and it also currently has a nice 1:1 cost:penalty ratio where gold is concerned.
Amazing video magic! Are you editing these yourself?
hey, yes! trying to improve my editing skills :D
As a freyr main playing in 1650-1700 range I believe the unit is very strong and also well balanced. I use them often and they give an incredible advantage in battle field. The fact that they don’t rely on a special but instead deal a constant stream of incredible dps at any point can be an advantage
Very good point, a lot of time the special is wasted on some single unit wandering the battlefield
Is Tyr weak vs Loki?
Is Freyr weai vs Loki?
Freyr is good vs Loki. Freya gives you incredible edge on map control and battles because valk is so strong and thundering hooves rc are so fast
The turtle says that the moving sequence at 1:45 is a bit disorientating and hard to follow since it moves so fast
Yeah I think you’re right!
Fafnir is just like Nid...If microed well can do miracles.
Instead of sending gold to your opponent, it coul djust spawn a mini gmine when it dies, would be much more fun :D
He is good on the bait sense. Like you bring a bunch of them and the opponent is gonna be drawn to focus him for the gold reward and the fact that he is gonna be doing that constant scaling aoe, but if they do, then you can have all your other guys punching for free, and they kinda have to focus him, it's not an ignorable unit by any means.
I feel that fafnir should be doing considerable crush. It should be a follow up to the explosion where you've deleted the army with your God power and you walk fafnir in to burn down the buildings. The tankyness would make it extremely difficult to take down as the enemy remaxes, pushing out small numbers of units wouldnt take it down fast enough as you burn all the military buildings to the ground
off course there is also the aspect of greed in multiplayer, that waving Fafnir around a bit might cause them to make mistakes and overextend. Which is surprisingly on brand for Fafnir.
As someone who plays Loki, I always like seeing one spawn. In terms of the 300 gold going to your opponent, if your Fafnir has taken out a lot of their units/buildings then maybe the trade is still a net positive when thinking of the gold they spent on thos units? That said, I would say the fire giant might be a better option, just.
This video is exactly what I was looking for. After I finished watching I played a match going with the mindset of trying to keep them alive. I got 6 fafnir and like 16 valkyrie for healing and the opponent couldn't take them down. The healing isn't that strong but with good micro you can keep them alive well enough to put punishing pressure against anyone.
Long enough to have your second army attack them from behind. They are a great distraction that can't be ignored and I think that purpose serves them well. If anyone wants to use fafnir I think valkyrie is a necessity. In my opinion fafnir is incomplete without them. Especially when their role is to put damage overtime and the only strategy that makes it work is to have healing a part of the strategy so they can stack up that overtime damage.
I would love they throw a major norse shuffle. Meaning reorganizing norse minor god so that the old 3 have access to the new minor gods.
I think it's fine and balanced conceptually. While it has a high favor cost, it does have a quick training time, which means it at points can be deployed in relatively hurry to combat a raid. However once your opponent knows you are making these things, they will begin to build counter units. Furthermore, it doesn't have any unique technologies attached to it, so it can be created at its fullest form at a rapid rate, without any preparations (so long you have the favor).
To me that screams a myth unit you use to surprise your enemy. If they use an army composition that Fafnir is good against, there's a big advantage to quickly making a few to overwhelm your enemy. Its downside however makes it a poor unit to create your main build around, as revealing it to the enemy too early, will cause the enemy to react to your unit composition instead of you reacting to their unit composition.
That is at least the design philosophy I see behind Fafnir. Not as a primary, but a reactionary unit that you only deploy, when the right time calls for it.
Magic, excuse me for the question for you may have mentioned it before - but how can i see the advanced tooltip as you do in 1:30? Thank you!
Hey, if you go to the mods section on age of mythology, search up either “loggy” who is the creator OR “advanced tooltips” then simply install and restart your game
Love when you play Loki and the game decides your enemy doesn’t have enough gold so it summons a Fannie to help out.
😄Happens way too often to me, especially when im losing on a position.
Fafnir sure is a sweet Hersir spawn with Loki
Looks like the Fire Giants projectile is invisible most of the time. Just seeing the impact
I think the game states comment was the key to the whole unit: Fafnir is an endgame mass and push, +300 gold means nothing if they have no production
@@liamreilly951 exactly. Once you won the battle field with fafnir by the time they get the 300 gold the games over
Great Video! I think that maybe converting its crash damage into divine damage would be a good buff for it.
I wish all civs have limited access to heroes. That way myth units would actually be viable as a main army comp rather than thinking if you should add 1, 2 or 3 to your army at most (anything more and you are throwing the game)
You dont have to lose Fafnir. If you go through Aiger and get Feasts of renown, you can easily heal it before it dies, the healing stacks around hill amd asgardian forts and tcs, so making a good healing station isnt a problem.
Magic, can you consider making a video about markets and how to abuse it, I think having them in classical age is such an important change and I don't see many people using it yet, but I strugle about the market changes and upgrades to take :)
There’s a guy named automation that did a great video on this !
I like to think about it that way: if 1 Fafnir deals dmg equally to 600 gold and those 35 favor it gets "net neutral" , any additional damage it deals is a net positive then. (?)
Also, I think the GP provided in combination with a Fafnir timing has devastating potential
Since fafnir is from freyr u can use aegir and freya to hold ur backlines better upgrade from fort and walkyrie can heal him also fafnir have a little range so u can block way to him with mele soldiers/units
hi Magic i think you are right they need to reduce the 300 gold you give to your oopponent or increse his damage or increase his breath range can be nice too
Doesn't feel worth imo. Like sure it's strong on occasion but in general circumstances, it always feels bad man. In RTS, you're expected to sacrifice your army so that 300 gold is guaranteed for the opponent and gold becomes way too important in Mythic games to warrant just giving it to the opponent for free. I like the gimmick cause it fits the lore but 300 gold is too much. I'd like to see them nerf the gold to 100 cause it would still be a negative but doesn't feel as bad cause you didn't just literally give them the resources for a Mythic age myth unit.
I know it's asking for too much but I would like to see them spawn something akin to a Phoenix egg with the herdable mechanic. If you have control of the newly spawned let's say "gold stomach" then after the timer runs out the controller gets the gold. Would also need a depreciating gold value on the Fafnir itself where over time the gold that gets dropped upon death decreases until 0.
Combos well with valkyrie as you can heal them back up when low on hp
Call me crazy but i think Fafnir is worth it!
Avenger my fav myth unit! he's crazy
LOL. Fafnir, if anything, is OP. The only thing your video really proved is that Chimera is too weak.
you messed up the phrase "one of, if not _the_ best myth unit in the game"
Hell yea canada bear makes an appearance!
I agree that 300 gold penalty is far too extreme. As a mechanic I don't like it because it strongly disincentivises using the unit.
You must also weight advantages and costs of the unit in reltion to the other powers given by the god, i think fafnir plus nuke are a terribly strong combo
At the end of the day, i think its all comes down to how good you can micro fafnir. If you can micro and at the same time if you can heal him through your teammates than who care about giving away 300 gold?
Make the dead Fafnir a 300g Gold mine.
If you used it as offensive you give the opponent 300g. If it dies defending, "you" have just the Favor lost.
moral of the story: i'm not making enough fire giants :/
I hope they do fix it. Would love to see him more often
I just think the mechanic of giving the opponent gold is too toxic of a mechanic to balance for a unit. Plus if we're talking about tanky myth units, heroic age units Freyr has access can fill the same role. It'd be understandable if the unit was a glass cannon, maybe. It's too situationally dependent on the match up, since you wouldn't want to give any Egyptian gold in a 1v1 as an example. I feel like Freyr in general is just not great at 1v1's, but excels in team games. It's a strange problem to have.
One question i wish you posed was 'can fafnir usually get 600 gold of value from fighting'. If he gets 600 gold worth of enemy kills then hes been cost effective
I think he is a very good unit if you play against AI who do not really focus units. But against competent players he is a bad unit, because on the frontline he will die to heroes easily especially mass priests or arci. If you want to keep him more safe in the backline then no reason to even create them.
So if you play against AI use them, they are amazing. Against players no.
no special attack makes it work way too slowly to be worth the risk of -300 gold IMO.
this test is most well suited for it's intended use case than any of the other myth units and it still didn't do particularly well.
300 seems too much. Personally think 100 would be reasonable. But also it builds in 12 seconds not 24 as others, it is a good bonus if resources is not a big issue for now.
Magic, could you also compare with hekagigantuses (centi…something). The Atlantean myth unit. It seems very strong as well, but you don’t use them in the tests…(
Will see what I can do!
Hey question out of topic: Is the Isis guide you made still up to date or is it not working properly anymore? im currently main on isis and using it, but im niot shure if its the best build order. If not: do you plan to make videos to update all build orders?
It still works for sure, however it’s a balanced build as it gives immediate scouting. The other builds and one I use right now is a fast flood of the Nile and pickaxe but you delay your first set of obelisks, I can make another one for sure later on
@@IamMagicAOM i really appericate that you take the time to answer m8! as a sc2 lover i know that i dont just used specific builds, but i changed them when i faced a specific race. May i ask how you change your strat when facing each of the 4 civs? When you have your build what do you change in it facing egypt, norse .... or dont you change a thing? Or do your instead of changing 1 strategy, have complete seperate strategys for each civilisation.
Second question: is there a specific time you scout to see specific things ? For example when i played zerg in starcraft and faced a protoss i knew when he builds a warpgate at 3:50 with expansion, then he will be ready to attack at 7:50. (Times not correct dont remember the correct ones its just example) .So that way i went scouting and tried to find that at 3:50 and when finding it i knew i had 4 minutes peace since i knew an attack would be coming at earliest 7:50. Do you against the other civs also have things you try to find at a specific time that helps you anticipate their strategy? Just want to know what you do and what your thought process is when you play. I just cant imagine you blindly play down your strat. And hearing "look for a expansion and for barracks" isnt really helpful. Would like your insight if you have specific times in mind or specific times you scout and try to find something. If yes, maybe a video with all timings you know for each civs could be a really big help for all noobies out there. Including me at the moment. I am very grateful for you answers and reactions! Dont know any youtuber reacting to comments that much. Thank you! i of course upvote all videos of you :)
I wonder if it can be imported into the AoM. Fafnir reminds me of a Chinese dragon.
In team games they are great since they split the 300 gold, son in 3v3 they only give 100g to each player
It should give the gold to you, not to your enemy
The unit is to hard to balance. If you put the reward at 150 it will be to strong to spam it .
Maybe the kwy is to reduce a little bit the tankiness ,increase the dps and resuce the reward at 150 to make it more as a glass canon . At the end givig 150 gold will be not a problem if you kill unkt valu of 300.
Magic do you think if we ever get another major Norse god that 3 of his choices could be Freyr minor gods? Would mean more variety than like another Baldr or Skadi.
I don’t think there’ll be another Norse god now, probably something else is in the works
As of now, eigther give it a 50% damage buff or reduce bounty by 50%.
dragon look very cool, me love dragon. dragon donate gold to enemy, me still love dragon. want dragon to slightly buffer. dragon slightly buffer, me happy.
seriously though i think it's fine to have setups like these where unit is riskier to use. Just needs slight stat adjustment to deal a bit more damage and i think he becomes very viable. only thing i do wonder is that by the time age 4 comes, fafnir inherently becomes harder to use cause everyone has the best heroes available to deal with it. other age 4 units that are popular are more specialized and hence see more use. Maybe slight nerf on hero damage against fafnir could motivate people to use it more? idk.
Is it possible to 'delete' Fafnir by yourself before is killed by your enemy, (when he is very low HP: 100 or less) that way the enemy would not get the gold?
I remember watching the Armycore guide for Oranos vs Loki (in the old AOM:TT) in him twich channel and he 'prefeer' to delete his oracles (and other units) before give 'favor' to the norse.
you can delete him, but the gold will then be spread among your current opponents. (so for 1v1, it still just gives 300 gold to the enemy), though yes, deleting him does prevent norse players from generating favor from fighting it.
It need a buff for sure
I love Fafnir
Its a team game unit as the discord comment said, tbh. Same as Colossus, Hydras, all giants, etc.... you dont havd the room to massthem in 1v1 specially this 300 gold penalty.
Wich is bit of a shame cuz the myth units are the special part of this game and makibg them takes too many effort for not the best payback.
Well I disagree with you. I think it is busted 1v1 when you go for Freyja Age 2. The tankiness is huge, and so is the unit, so it is easy to micro them out of combat when they become low HP. Keep one Walkyrie at the back, heal them back to full HP, and boom, you almost never give gold the your opponent. Plus, it forces him to micro too.
But yeah if you treat them like any other unit, I guess you are not optimizing as you should.
Though I agree with Skiiage, Belerophon is a hard counter
Why didn't you show centimanus? because it beats them all?
In the fight
Does it, I’ll have to test it later
@@IamMagicAOM more than likely, it's special ability send everyone flying so they don't get to build up damage as quick
It seems like the problem is his animation. It doesn't seem like it's true 144 DPS because it takes too long for it to attack a new target when you kill one
No, the DPS is accurate, that 144 DPS is just wrong in that it assumes 6 targets. In reality it does ~24 hack, 12 crush, 1 divine to individual units (6 projectiles / 3 sec attack = 2x base values, divine is alr per second).
@@nikolaanicic3944 oh is it supposed to be AOE? But it doesn't work in practice right?
For the algo. Loved this vid
it wold be beter if the unit is killed, it becomes a mini mine so anyone get there firt can mine it, way better and interesting play
I rarely see anyone use this unit though
People think spamming cheaper units is better
Anybody knows the mod that shows all the unit stats in thechtree?
Search up loggy - detailed tool tips
Fafnir are good but my heroic arcus says otherwise
You should test his ability withstand heroes... if you can snipe him with a bellerophon or some priests its easy money for a skilled human player, exactly that you didnt test :)
This goes for all myth units. No myth unit can withstand heroes; the trick is knowing how to dodge them / pressure them away.
@@nikolaanicic3944 i know and thats why its so important ... if you can nuke the Fafnir with one strong greek or a few minor ranged heroes like a cupple of priests and or a pharao then he is not worth , if he is so beefy that he delays your enemies abilities to nuke your myth units and for that reduce your dps that less that you win a fight then he is absolutely worth his effective 600 gold costs (we do not better talk about a super late game without any gold left, then the answer is very simple .... no way in hel)
nice video but the zoom on the different myth unit stats is just terrible. Much better to just have a red circle drawn around what you're talking about or just have the screen only show the important stuff, that move and zoom hurts to look at.
Agreed! Thanksn
Yeah. Drop the gold for killing it to like 150 and I think it would more worth it.
It has much better stats than Cheimera so no question needed......
The expression goes "One of, if not the", just a heads up you reversed it
Thx
@@IamMagicAOM Np, quality video
Not sure if it was a bug or something but i was playin skirmish and i accidentally kill my fafnir i think with a good power or something. and i got 300 gold. Ill see if this is still the case if so. it will be totally broken. Just kill your unit and get and additional 300 gold lol.
Please let me know if it’s still happening, I’ll try and let the devs know
Fafnir seems a bit underwhelming. Amazing looking unit that doesn't perform. Very easy for Egyptian and Norse to snipe down with priests and Godi.
0:45 worship* not research
Ok nerd
@mushfiqurrahman1107 no need to call me that
Greeks used to have more expensive but stronger units, in retold Greeks have the most expensive and the weaker units. It is a joke...
One of the reasons why freyrr sucks. To complicated to use in battle. The design makes no sense at all. Just let him cost more and don't donate gold.
NQ
Nerf it and then make it not give gold, thats a dumb mechanic. Either buff the unit or have it give just 150 gold (or nothing at all)
maybe they could troll and give the human unit that slays the beast 50% more hp. Because he is like a veteran Brad Pitt Achilles Mothafocka