An easy way to ensure long term reliability is to premix your rotary engine. In this episode, Kenny goes over premixing, why you do it, how much to do, and what to use.
I love this content! I'm thinking of getting a project RX7 and these videos are really helping me understand how different these cars are. PLEASE KEEP POSTING VIDEOS LIKE THESE
How can I tell whether the amount of premix I'm using is enough. Like will i be able to tell from any oil temperature/engine temperature read outs? Also, does premixing 2 stroke oil/idemitsu require bigger injectors? 850cc+ or do you risk clogging injectors if you stick that those?
In 20 years, I have never seen a pre-S5 metering oil pump fail unless due to some physical trauma. Sure, the lines and injectors get old, and sometimes the pumps leak, both being easy fixes. It's a bit inaccurate to say that the stock metering oil system doesn't mix with the fuel. Indeed until the FD, it does. FCs have a set of oil injectors in the lower intake runners delivering oil to the air stream. Older carbureted rotarys supply oil directly to the carb. Premixing, in my opinion, supported by many years of observation, is a waste of time and money unless the vehicle is heavily modified or a track car. The stock metering oil system is reliable and nearly maintenance free. 1 oz per gallon is approximately twice the oil than delivered by the stock system. Way too much. Plus, for those of us who may store our cars during the winter, premix will separate from the fuel and build up over time.
Premix does not separate from fuel quickly. It stays suspended for over a year at the minimum. When I speak about premix and fuel mixing, I mean it's literally mixed and sprayed through the fuel injector. We've seen several OMP failures. From 70s vehicles all the way to FDs.
I'd be curious to find out how many "it dun blowed up" moments have been caused by accidental or intentional excess premix. Yes, premix is cheap insurance, but it stops being cheap insurance when it builds up in the tank and suddenly your "safe" tune ain't so safe anymore.
The omp system has injected a substantially smaller amount of oil per unit of gas with every iteration. The FD injects about half of the S5, and the rx8 is even more dangerously skimpy. Premixing fully without use of the omp is more consistent than you think, and running synthetic oil will do wonders for your bearings and turbo. However, if I could have the option of running synthetic that didn't gum up the housings when used with an omp, and running 1/2 oz per gallon of premix, I would
For 30 years I have owned Rotarys, two RX7, one 1983 12A and the other 1987 Turbo II, I have never had problems with the metering oil pump. I've never had to make a premix. My 1983 12A was running up to 300,000 miles with no problems. I have always used synthetic oil, Ansoil 5W50, and recently, Royal Purple 5W50 each year a Slick 50 additive for oil. Both car are running without problems.
Quick note for rotary geeks: stay away from Royal Purple as your oil if you're in a cold climate ... Racing Beat etc. can recommend it down there in sunny California, but up here in Canada it just turns to sludge in the cold.
*Well, if you are a true rotary expert??? You know that the preferred lubricant is castor oil... but this is really a moot point because we are discussing **_WANKEL_** engines made by Mazda... stick to the stock metered oil injection system and the recommended 4-stroke motor oil for spark ignition engines.*
*Mazda specifically recommends API SL/ EC-GF3 4-stroke "S" type motor oil only.* *2-stroke oils eg; EC E-GD, API TC, JASO-FC 2-stroke oils DO NOT meet this detergent motor oil specification and should never be used.*
There's a "third option" called remote-sourced oil metering pump, which uses a separate source of oil besides using oil in your engine and oil (premix) in your gas tank. I can imagine this option will let you run any premix with e85. Just throwing it out there.
Still does not address the spray pattern issue of oil vs fuel injectors. However, yes, this is a much better way of doing it IMHO. Whenever I get around to building a track only car, I will be running this plus some premix.
*Does not address the root problem of apex seal failure... which is erratic combustion. Pre-mixing is DUMB because it does nothing to address the problem and makes the problem WORSE!!!*
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Try to watch the video again and understand the principles of it, I am afraid your totally incorrect here, speak to any specialist who knows their stuff and they will recommend running premix oil.
@@essexrotary1540 Premixing is monumentally dumb and will do nothing but damage a healthy engine. Mixing 2stroke oils in the fuel lowers the effective octane rating and increases the possibility of apex seal damage due to detonation, pre-ignition or erratic combustion. 2stroke oils also increase the amount of detergent ash and carbon deposits. Anyone that recommends premix is either trying to sell you a shitty, overpriced, asian brand of scooter oil or is simply not sufficiently educated or knowledgeable enough to speak intelligently on this topic. Learn to read and understand the manufacturers service and maintenance procedures and the specifications printed on every bottle of motor oil. Don't be that moron that pours the wrong oil in the wrong filler hole.
Good vid. Very important that people get educated on how to care for rotary engine... especially now that the FD3S is eligible for import. Also.. it's "e-de-mitsu" :)
Hi there, I don't know if anyone will ever read this comment, but I have 2 questions for which I can't seem to find an answer : 1) Isn't the combustion affected by the addition of oil in the fuel system ? I'm conscious that 2-stroke oil is made for this use, but I wonder if the air-fuel ratio could be significantly affected, resulting in an incomplete combustion (the engine not being concieved this way). 2) I read (non verified information) that the insufficient amount of oil provided by the OMP system is due to emmission regulations. Do you believe that an OMP upgrade (stronger flow, bigger injectors) could improve the lubrication enough ? Thank you for reading me, and thanks for your work :) PS : I hope i'm readable, being a french speaker.
Your English sir is excellent. Very good questions. Mazda does not recommend premixing fuel with any type oil. Mixing oil with the air/ fuel mixture significantly reduces the fuels _Effective Octane Rating_ and increases the possibility of apex seal damage due to detonation/pre-ignition and erratic combustion. The primary failure mode of the apex and side seals is not lack of lubrication, but rather damage due to detonation and combustion efficiency problems. 2-stroke oils are specially formulated to be used in 2-stroke engines. All Wankel engines use the 4-stroke operating principle. Mazda only recommends 4stroke motor oil that's meets ASTM D-7079 For a maximum allowed ash/carbon deposits. No 2-stroke oils meet these minimum API specifications (API SL /EC-GF3) or higher. Mazda engineers have after very careful and exhaustive research and testing calibrated the OMP for maximum reliability. It is not recommended that anyone that is not qualified ever tamper with or remove/disable the OMP, this is garanteed recipe for premature engine failures due to seal damage. I hope that answers your questions
@@sandervanderkammen9230 oh my gosh, you're fucking everywhere 😂 dude, precision and reliability when developing the oil metering pump? that's the Renesis' number one problem, the OMP getting screwed from the factory, get out of here!
one thing you need to watch out for is leaning out your mixture since the oil doesn't burn. ie at 50:1 fuel to oil you now have 2% less fuel on the same mapping. maybe it was a bigger problem with 2stroke mx bikes. also Amsoil interceptor or denominator oils would be a good choice. great premix synthetics
There is another premixing lubricant that I researched and said to be pretty good for rotaries called Protek-R. I'm thinking Protek-R and Idemitsu are the best for premixing most Wankels, but there are still other options out there as well
great content! keep it up! im a new rotary owner bought a s4 na. also a 88' lol im in the bay area, and the bay area rotary guys are awesome, but these videos are super helpful! let me know if there is any way to help you out, expand for this new year.
On a Rx8 series 1 you should premix 1 ounce to 1.5 ounces a gallon because unlike their series II counterparts, they only have two OMP injectors instead of the three. On a series II you can premix between 1 to .5 ounces per gallon and be fine.
Hey I have factory rx7 twin turbo I just get the vehicle. Use premium fuel or regular??? I like the idea to premix looks like help to maintain the engine with 100% lubricate
Been subscribed for years and finally picking up my first rotary. Do you have a video on “bandaids” to help a RX8 with suspected low compression? I wanna get the most life until I either decide rebuild or swap
Thank you so much. I've been wondering for a while, what if I got a Mazda Wankel, disabled/removed the stock oiling system, and just ran it on 2stroke premix, like Amsoil. No one answered me, until I found this video. Did no one answer me because I was asking mostly in 2stroke videos? Is it because wankels are rare, or is this some unspoken dark art? I was looking for lightweight engines with great power-to-weight ratios, for a motorcycle project. I was looking at gas-turbines, but I wanted to give Wankels & 2strokes another look, and plan around mixing oil at a gas-station, or have separate tanks, drain one premix tank, switch to another, go to a station when I have the opportunity, fill the empty tank with a certain amount of gas, then add a predetermined amount of 2stroke oil, that will mix in the tank, as I ride. Don't have to worry about cops, or other degenerates messing with me while I calculate & mix oil. Whether hooning at night, avoiding cops, or having to gas up at a shady station, I think my 2 tank idea with a switcher valve, is the best option, if I was going to rely on a 2stroke or Wankel. Again, thank you. Subscribed.
Hello!!thanks for those infos! i would like to know what to consider to determine the max rpm of a rotary.. oil pressure, boost, balance? what is the limiting factor, what mods can be done to tune to higher rpm etc!
Hey Kenny, thanks for the presentation of your video about pre-mixing. Funny thing, I heard from a guy on his rotary***.com website that a person should shy away from using synthetic blends or straight synthetic 2 cycle oil because of the deposits synthetics leave in the internal parts of the rotary engine. About the only non-synthetic, I can find is Briggs & Stratton 2 cycle oil. It states that it is ashless. There's always someone that has different opinions from me; I don't know about you. Anyway, thanks again for the video.
First off, there are 5 different classes of synthetic base stock polymeric molecules used in motor oil, they all have different characteristics. Secondly, the API does not recognize any difference in mineral, synthetic or synthetic blends and considers the the word "synthetic" a completely meaningless marketing or advertising term. The API only recognizes 2 base stock classes based on lubricity performance, not formulation.
Mazda recommends 4-stroke motor oil with a API SL or EC-GF3 rating both which meet ASTM D-7097. This specifies Max. allowable ash deposits of 45 mg. 0.1% by Mass. The highest ashless 2-stroke oil ratings EXCEED this specification by at least 250%. This exactly why Mazda specifically requires 4-stroke oil not 2-stroke oils. Don't waste your time and money following bad advice that will only harm your engine. Follow the manufacturers specifications and ignore people who try to sell you a very overpriced, low quality Asian brand 2stroke oil because they claim it will save your apex seals. Any fool can pour the wrong oil down the wrong filler hole, follow your owners manual and don't be that guy.
If anyone is wondering numbers. 128oz in a gallon of gas. Divide 128 by your ratio to find the amount of oil. So 1oz oil per gallon is 128:1 ratio. 100:1 ratio would be 1.28oz oil per gallon and 80:1 would be 1.6oz to the gallon. I don't run a OMP, so I use the 100:1 which comes to 6.4oz oil mixed into a 5 gallon gas can.
tc-3 ... u dont need to spend a lot of money... i actually buy the one they sell at 7-11brand.... not new to this been playing with rotarys since the 80s
Great content :) I have a 2009 RX8-R3. Apparently the 2009 and up models have a 3rd lubrication nozzle that the 2004-2008 models didn't have (they had 2). So do I still need to pre-mix? The previous owner didn't but my compression test (Feb1st, 2017) came back excellent so I still am not sure if it is necessary for the model I have or not.
Is the oil to gas ratio the same for the rx8 in my case I have a 2004, not sure what ratio to try, I'm new, also the omp is NOT blocked off and I was planning on running 92-93 unleaded gas I was probably gonna use 93 from Sunoco
You don't need to pre-mix. If your car is heavily modified and putting out a lot of power, then you will start to consider that. Pre-mixing means you get oil in proportion to fuel flow, so if you're coasting the injectors are closed, so you get no oil. Mazda looked at this early on in the development of the engine and they realized that. That's why they developed the oil metering pump because it puts oil in proportion to the load, not the fuel flow. If you're adamant about premixing, Mazda's early tests were done with 50:1 to 100:1 ratios of fuel to oil. more than that you're just wasting money and making more carbon.
look at "The Wankel Engine" by Jan P. Norbye and "The Wankel Rotary Engine" by John B. Hege. They both do a good job at explaining the history of rotary engines and premixing. Older vehicles did indeed premix (~1959), but that's before emissions became important. The rotary engine also uses oil because of the leakage past the seals. by 1965 the seal tolerances were getting better so the oil leakage past the seals was no longer sufficient to lubricate the housing. So the rotor had to be designed to feed oil to the apex seal for a "designed leak". During this time the oil consumption from the "designed leak" was roughly 500-1000 miles per quart. Based on that "designed leak" the ratio is roughly 100-200:1. which is basically 0.5oz per gallon. Mazda and other manufacturers didn't think it was acceptable for a modern engine to require the owner to mix oil in the gas or be able to accurately predict oil flow based on fuel flow. Additionally, emissions were becoming a big deal, it became important to reduce oil consumption to acceptable levels. So Mazda and other manufacturers came up with the metering pump used in the intake path. The oil is metered based on the operating conditions of vacuum and throttle position of the mechanical systems. For example when you are coasting your injectors are at 0% duty cycle and you have no fuel OR oil. By design the rotary does need oil to aid in sealing of the rotor tip. Don't get me wrong there. If your OMP is working properly then there isn't a real need to premix. Check out the procedure for testing your OMP in the FSM. With the engine warm disconnect two of the four OMP lines and and put the OMP lever to it's maximum position. Run the engine at 2000rpm for 5 minutes. you should collect roughly 0.2 oz of oil. This procedure simulates the engine and OMP being at redline for 5 minutes. The relation of oil per RPM is basically linear so near idle you can expect 0.02 oz of oil consumption in 5 minutes. Basically, the engine is premixing for you and doing a better job at it than putting it in the fuel. If you want more "peace of mind" do some basic maintenance and check that it's working. If you want more oil, enlarge the orifices on the pump. My opinion, just leave it stock and check that it's working.
Did you listen to anything he states in this video. Premix is not needed, but anyone with a brain would realize it will prolong the life of their rotary engine by reducing wear and tear on the housings.
Love your vidios kenny i have a ? Is ok if just put oil in my 1988 rx7 is a stock motor and the emp is working is it ok if i put premix on it too?i appreciate it
Is the second gen 13b intake facing the other way vs a first gen? my intake faces the left if looking at it from the front and am going turbo 13b as well and was wondering how I was going to fit a turbo and intake all on the same side. Would a second gen intake bolt up?
Question: say I'm looking at a completely stock fd rx7 from 1999 - import to the UK. Do you still recommend premixing for daily use? For track work, I appreciate it might make much sense to premix.
~500 huh? at what output would you recommend strengthening the keg/block with pins or upgraded tension bolts? and thanks for the e85 tip, I'm considering going that route since my s5 is being built for the track here in CA.
Michael Rodgers depends on which block. This motor has goopy half inch oversized tension bolts. TIIs you'll need it around 300-350, REWs need it around 500-600
I don't own an rotary. I plan on buying and building a strictly drift car FD in the near future. Ive been watching videos and checking out some forums for research on the future build. My question is if running pump premium and water methanol what would you recommend for premix or what are specific things you've heard work or don't work? the water meth would be for preventing predet and to really help cool the motor.
*You should never pre-mix any Renesis engine... Premix does NOT prolong the life of your engine if your OMP is operating correctly and will only cause long term damage. Mazda and it team of engineers DOES NOT recommend premixing any production engine equipped with metered oil injection.*
*ALL Wankel engines are 4-STOKE. 2-stroke lubricants should NEVER BE USED as they DO NOT meet Mazda's motor oil specifications. 2-stroke motor will cause long term damage to the engine, fuel and emissions systems.*
If your rotary powered car has a catalytic converter pre mixing will greatly shorten its life. An RX8 has two catalytic converters and will cost 2200 for the cats.
I dont' own an rx-7 but I do have a question. I work in construction heavy equipment, then tamps, saws etc. Lots of the small stuff uses two stroke but we obviously pre mix it in a small gas can and use as needed. If you were to put it in the fuel tank. Would you put the amount of oil you're going to need in before fueling so that as the gas is being pumped in, it'd possibly be mixed more thoroughly or Well I don't really have any other ideas on it. But I am genuinely curious.
I'm pretty sure either one works fine,two-stroke oil mixes really well with gas and the vibration from the enginge should do It's part too. I've never tried it but if you scale down the amounts,try pouring some gas in a plastic container and add a fiftieth(or whatever mixture you're running) of oil to see how it behaves! I'm kind a curious too whether it needs any mechanical influence to mix or if it does so by potentially released chemical energy!
I presume the S5 gives you a warning light on the dash if the OMP goes bad as it's electronically injecting oil into the engine from there in the S5s. Is this correct?
Sorry if it's an obviously stupid question, but is there any way to premix if you have LPG set up? Because it has that special kind of plug, and you can't just pour oil into it. I don't have LPG yet, but considering that in my country it costs half as much as the basic 95, I'd absolutely like to convert it. Any ideas or help is appreciated!
Premix always reminds me the good old 2-stroke engines. Since the Wankel engines are 4-stroke, and not requiring a premix has been pointed out as an advantage of reciprocating 4-stroke engines compared to their 2-stroke counterparts, I guess many people would either become confused about Wankel engines or simply reject them because they see premix as a burden that can be avoided with a more conventional engine.
*True, all Wankel engines are 4-stroke. Mazda does recommend pre-mixing for very goods reasons... anyone advising you to pre-mix is simply not qualified to make such recommendations which will only waste money, increase your chances of a premature engine failure and damage sensors and emissions components.*
@@doktorbimmer We premix with a lot lower ratio than a 2-stroke. And the regular oil being supplied to the Apex seal thru the chamber and is getting burned (or the lack thereof) is more damaging (having more deposits) than a 2-stroke oil that is designed to burn easily. People actually block off regular oil supply to the apex seal, then just use 2-stroke oil as the main lubricant, that results in cleaner chamber,
pettit racing uses klotz 2 stroke oil for pre mix Had a fd was all pettit racing did the pre-mix no issues for 20K pre mix your rotary you will happy that you did
Question: Engine braking downhill say 3000rpm ( injectors are at idle fuel flow...are apex seals getting sufficient lubrication from premix at said rpm? Just curious because I switched to premix. Thanks.
@@adws5696 That’s what I thought so too. By theory, rotors would be running dry with no fuel and no oil? I have deleted the oil metering pump like some rotary owners and can’t go back. So I guess we’ll just have to avoid ‘engine braking’? Any suggestions? Thanks.
@Liboy so in that case the only source of lubrication is the fuel, and thats why your supposed to NEVER coast or engine brake. There is a video of Rob Dahm when he says the same.
So that injector clog issue? haha seemed kinda big. How do these effect fuel pumps, filters, and injectors that were not to push something as viscous as oil?
No one has really had problems as far as I'm aware with the e85/oil mixture. Funny enough, we're putting my 10th Anni on the dyno this weekend, I just ordered 128oz of Klotz Supertechnique, we're going to be putting E85 premix to the test.
Oh, so if you're speaking just about gasoline and premix, it's minimal if any effect. 2 stroke oil is designed to work in fuel systems without harming them.
Yes, you'll need to use less premix to avoid dropping the octane of your gasoline too low, your mileage may vary, just hop on a forum and see what others are doing!
I just bought a 2004 rx 8 yesterday, and so that makes me new....and was wondering where do i put the premmix? ask a stupid question i know....but ive never delt with rotary engines before so i dont know
In the gas tank along with fuel which is where the ratios come into play. But you may see catolitic converter problems if you do so I recommend straight pipe
I would recommend having a plastic tub in your trunk with a measuring cup, premix, and funnel. Fill up the premix before putting the gas in. Great time to pop the hood and check your engine oil level as well (would keep a qt of that in the tub as well).
If you use synthetic it won't create any smoke, however, it will make the fumes more prominent regardless of which oil you use. Don't premix before a emissions test (smog) or you will fail.
*Mazda does not recommend premixing because there is no advantage or reason to, this only damage your engine. There are no 2-strokes oils that meet Mazda's current specifications.* *Mazda says only oil that meets API SL/ EC GF3 is recommended.* *Never pre-mix engines equipped with metered oil injection and never use 2-stroke oil in 4-stroke engines like the Wankel unless specified by the manufacturer.*
I'm confused on what to use for my s5 fc. I want to use idemitsu but I heard that you can't use synthetic oil in rotaries? Is there a reason why idemitsu is okay to use?
*Mazda does not recommend premixing and there are no 2-strokes oils that meet Mazda's current specifications.* *Mazda says only oil that meets API SL/ EC GF3 is recommended. The API does not recognized any difference between synthetic and non-synthetic base stocks and considers it a completely meaningless marketing term so that false urban myth is completely debunked.* *Never pre-mix engines equipped with metered oil injection and never use 2-stroke oil in 4-stroke engines like the Wankel unless specified by the manufacturer.*
okay i am only working with 1 variable here, not adding any additional stuff like oil pump fail or dog got sucked into the engine. only talking about change oil frequently with thick oil vs premix. probably have the same life expectancy for the engine?
ROTORS okay even with twin turbo. Some people said to remove it with a single turbo. And keep with twins. But just bought one. Thank you for the response
subie skyline34 if i remember right there are only 2 oil injectors on the 1st gen, premixing was a must on the 04-06, 07 and up I don't think it's that necessary but I've done it anyway because it's a better way to lubricate the seals. If you've owned the car for awhile and have not been doing it I recommend a compression test, and I also hope you bought the car with an up to date compression test.
*Lucas® 2-stroke oil is not recommended for 4-stroke engines and does not meet Mazda's motor oil specifications for Wankel engines... no 2-stroke oil meets API SL/ EC-GF3 or ASTM D-7097 standards*
*No, Idemitsu premix is only JASO FC rated... this is a significantly lower rating than required by Mazda and produces 250% higher carbon deposits that API SL/ EC-GF3.*
*Mazda does not recommend pre-mixing... and there is absolutely no evidence that supports the myth that premixing extends engine life... Mazda engineers developed meter oil injection because it is superior to premixing.* *Pre-mixing causes carbon build-up, damages sensors, spark plugs and emissions equipment and increases the chance of apex seal failure due to pre-ignition... (pre-mixing lowers your effective octane rating) It is the least accurate method as it can only deliver oil based on air/fuel ratio... which changes based on operating conditions and will deliver too much oil when it is not needed and not enough when it is.*
Hello if anyone can help me with my rx7 please comment back. I'm having issues ..after I installed my freshly rebuilt turbo(bigger turbo s4 13b Mico tech) when I put it in I had to move some pump up(pollution pump I think) and it jammed a hard line which I'm pretty sure is the omp line. I never realized it jammed this hard line. It ran great no problems lots of boost I took it on a 4hr drive the next day and on my 4hr drive home the thing started running very speratic it literally died as I pulled in the driveway home. So what I'm asking is did I mess it up by jamming the omp line and taking it for a long drive??? Any help would be greatly appreciated
Cody Neef Hi Cody, Does the line(or hose) you pinched have oil in it. The oil metering pump is under the lower radiator hose on the front cover ,just follow the lines up from there and see if it is any of the one's you pinched. So to start with pull the spark plugs out. Then take of the intake pipe from the throttle body. With the throttle blades open squirt some engine oil down the intake from a lever type oil can. Pull out your fuel pump fuse and disable the coil packs. Crank over by hand first and if it feels OK use the starter for a good 10-15 seconds. put some more oil in the intake and repeat. When winding the engine over you should hear 3 good pulses from each rotor housing. If you have a compression gauge give it a compression test. (if you don't have a rotary engine specific compression gauge)take the schrader valve out of a standard one and watch the needle movement. If it is even across all 3 pulses refit spark plugs ,replace fuel pump fuse and put some premix in it straight away. Now try to start the engine. This will let you know if you have done any damage. I hope it's all good mate. Let me know how you get on with it. Cheers Mark....
Mark Thomas Thanks for the reply. I ended up doing some research and figured out it was a omp rod that I jammed in the "up" position. which I was told actually adds more oil. I did a compression test and indeed the rear rotor had a weak pulse. too much drifting and racing oh well.
You have to be monumentally stupid to pour the wrong oil down the wrong filler hole... if you can't read the owners manual or the label on a bottle of motor oil you have no business working on any vehicle.
*Today marks the 6th anniversary of the end of RX production, on Thursday June 21, 2012 at **4:30**pm the final RX-8 car ever to be produced rolled off the assembly line, the last RX model to ever be produced by Mazda.*
There is no 2-stroke oil available that meets Mazda's minimum API rating.. Premixing isn't just a complete waste of money... It will damage a healthy engine.
I would say it depends on oil you use. Modern 2-stroke oils don't burn in the combustion chamber (or just partially) and they also have some aditives for cleaning carbon residues, so the engine may end up cleaner, than it was before.
Yes, pre-mixing is very bad, it increases deposits and increases the chance of damage to the apex seals, its stupid to pre-mix any Wankel engine designed to use an OMP.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Usually one would share factual and verifiable evidence to support one’s opinion but I realize this is the internet and that bulk of its users are dolts.
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You should do the explanation in Liters as well, because many out there in the world like in Europe, etc use Liters not Galons and ounces...
7.8125 ml/l
The entire world except america uses liters.... loll
Kulvir Kang plus Liberia and Quebec
1 ounce per gallon is 1:128 just to give you a ball park figure
You must be pretty smart to be able to measure it that accurately. I would probably go for 8 ml/litre and let it go at that
I love this content! I'm thinking of getting a project RX7 and these videos are really helping me understand how different these cars are. PLEASE KEEP POSTING VIDEOS LIKE THESE
How can I tell whether the amount of premix I'm using is enough. Like will i be able to tell from any oil temperature/engine temperature read outs?
Also, does premixing 2 stroke oil/idemitsu require bigger injectors? 850cc+ or do you risk clogging injectors if you stick that those?
In 20 years, I have never seen a pre-S5 metering oil pump fail unless due to some physical trauma. Sure, the lines and injectors get old, and sometimes the pumps leak, both being easy fixes. It's a bit inaccurate to say that the stock metering oil system doesn't mix with the fuel. Indeed until the FD, it does. FCs have a set of oil injectors in the lower intake runners delivering oil to the air stream. Older carbureted rotarys supply oil directly to the carb. Premixing, in my opinion, supported by many years of observation, is a waste of time and money unless the vehicle is heavily modified or a track car. The stock metering oil system is reliable and nearly maintenance free. 1 oz per gallon is approximately twice the oil than delivered by the stock system. Way too much. Plus, for those of us who may store our cars during the winter, premix will separate from the fuel and build up over time.
Agreed.
Premix does not separate from fuel quickly. It stays suspended for over a year at the minimum. When I speak about premix and fuel mixing, I mean it's literally mixed and sprayed through the fuel injector. We've seen several OMP failures. From 70s vehicles all the way to FDs.
I'd be curious to find out how many "it dun blowed up" moments have been caused by accidental or intentional excess premix.
Yes, premix is cheap insurance, but it stops being cheap insurance when it builds up in the tank and suddenly your "safe" tune ain't so safe anymore.
The omp system has injected a substantially smaller amount of oil per unit of gas with every iteration. The FD injects about half of the S5, and the rx8 is even more dangerously skimpy. Premixing fully without use of the omp is more consistent than you think, and running synthetic oil will do wonders for your bearings and turbo. However, if I could have the option of running synthetic that didn't gum up the housings when used with an omp, and running 1/2 oz per gallon of premix, I would
GOD BLESS YOU WITH EXPLOSIVE BLESSINGS
For 30 years I have owned Rotarys, two RX7, one 1983 12A and the other 1987 Turbo II, I have never had problems with the metering oil pump. I've never had to make a premix. My 1983 12A was running up to 300,000 miles with no problems. I have always used synthetic oil, Ansoil 5W50, and recently, Royal Purple 5W50 each year a Slick 50 additive for oil. Both car are running without problems.
*Never premix! Do not listen to these false urban myths!!!*
Nunca la omp falla , yo no mezclo tampoco y uso sintético móbil One 10w 30 o 10w40 acá en Puerto Rico
Quick note for rotary geeks: stay away from Royal Purple as your oil if you're in a cold climate ... Racing Beat etc. can recommend it down there in sunny California, but up here in Canada it just turns to sludge in the cold.
*Well, if you are a true rotary expert??? You know that the preferred lubricant is castor oil... but this is really a moot point because we are discussing **_WANKEL_** engines made by Mazda... stick to the stock metered oil injection system and the recommended 4-stroke motor oil for spark ignition engines.*
*Mazda specifically recommends API SL/ EC-GF3 4-stroke "S" type motor oil only.*
*2-stroke oils eg; EC E-GD, API TC, JASO-FC 2-stroke oils DO NOT meet this detergent motor oil specification and should never be used.*
These guys are just awesome. Gracias for the school lesson.
There's a "third option" called remote-sourced oil metering pump, which uses a separate source of oil besides using oil in your engine and oil (premix) in your gas tank. I can imagine this option will let you run any premix with e85. Just throwing it out there.
Still does not address the spray pattern issue of oil vs fuel injectors. However, yes, this is a much better way of doing it IMHO. Whenever I get around to building a track only car, I will be running this plus some premix.
*Does not address the root problem of apex seal failure... which is erratic combustion. Pre-mixing is DUMB because it does nothing to address the problem and makes the problem WORSE!!!*
Loving your content guys, Have sent this viedo to a few of our customers now that wanted to know more about Premix.
*Well, you have done them a terrible disservice.*
@@doktorbimmer what?
You should never use 2-stroke oils in a Wankel engine. Wankel engines all 4stroke operating principle.
Mazda only recommends 4-stroke motor oil.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Try to watch the video again and understand the principles of it, I am afraid your totally incorrect here, speak to any specialist who knows their stuff and they will recommend running premix oil.
@@essexrotary1540 Premixing is monumentally dumb and will do nothing but damage a healthy engine.
Mixing 2stroke oils in the fuel lowers the effective octane rating and increases the possibility of apex seal damage due to detonation, pre-ignition or erratic combustion.
2stroke oils also increase the amount of detergent ash and carbon deposits.
Anyone that recommends premix is either trying to sell you a shitty, overpriced, asian brand of scooter oil or is simply not sufficiently educated or knowledgeable enough to speak intelligently on this topic.
Learn to read and understand the manufacturers service and maintenance procedures and the specifications printed on every bottle of motor oil.
Don't be that moron that pours the wrong oil in the wrong filler hole.
Good vid. Very important that people get educated on how to care for rotary engine... especially now that the FD3S is eligible for import.
Also.. it's "e-de-mitsu" :)
IDEMITSU is Japanese for shitty, overpriced scooter bike oil... don't be that fool that puts the wrong engine oil down the wrong filler hole.
You seem very knowledgeable and the quality of your videos is superb! Subscribed :)
Nice Vid guys, we been sharing the hell out of this to customers here in the UK
I kick myself everyday for selling my 10th anniversary 😑
Hilarious! I just commented on another video about selling mine. I sold it to by my wife's wedding ring 15 years ago. I miss that car. So much fun!!
Buy...
@@FZappaFan1 for a wedding ring?
Ouch that is the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals, ever.
If it blew apex seals on the next owner, your pocketbook may be thanking you.
@@FZappaFan1 You should have gotten her a rotor ring
Hi there,
I don't know if anyone will ever read this comment, but I have 2 questions for which I can't seem to find an answer :
1) Isn't the combustion affected by the addition of oil in the fuel system ? I'm conscious that 2-stroke oil is made for this use, but I wonder if the air-fuel ratio could be significantly affected, resulting in an incomplete combustion (the engine not being concieved this way).
2) I read (non verified information) that the insufficient amount of oil provided by the OMP system is due to emmission regulations. Do you believe that an OMP upgrade (stronger flow, bigger injectors) could improve the lubrication enough ?
Thank you for reading me, and thanks for your work :)
PS : I hope i'm readable, being a french speaker.
Your English sir is excellent.
Very good questions.
Mazda does not recommend premixing fuel with any type oil.
Mixing oil with the air/ fuel mixture significantly reduces the fuels _Effective Octane Rating_ and increases the possibility of apex seal damage due to detonation/pre-ignition and erratic combustion.
The primary failure mode of the apex and side seals is not lack of lubrication, but rather damage due to detonation and combustion efficiency problems.
2-stroke oils are specially formulated to be used in 2-stroke engines.
All Wankel engines use the 4-stroke operating principle.
Mazda only recommends 4stroke motor oil that's meets ASTM D-7079
For a maximum allowed ash/carbon deposits.
No 2-stroke oils meet these minimum API specifications (API SL /EC-GF3) or higher.
Mazda engineers have after very careful and exhaustive research and testing calibrated the OMP for maximum reliability.
It is not recommended that anyone that is not qualified ever tamper with or remove/disable the OMP, this is garanteed recipe for premature engine failures due to seal damage.
I hope that answers your questions
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Those are exactly the answers I was looking for. Thank you very much for taking the time to share your knowledge.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 oh my gosh, you're fucking everywhere 😂 dude, precision and reliability when developing the oil metering pump? that's the Renesis' number one problem, the OMP getting screwed from the factory, get out of here!
@@isaac4273 You have been exposed as a liar and fake...
@@isaac4273 The Renesis was a failure because of its high static compression ratio.
The E40 of rotary engines.
Wish this channel existed when I had my 86 GXL and 87 T2 lol
Right?
one thing you need to watch out for is leaning out your mixture since the oil doesn't burn. ie at 50:1 fuel to oil you now have 2% less fuel on the same mapping. maybe it was a bigger problem with 2stroke mx bikes.
also Amsoil interceptor or denominator oils would be a good choice. great premix synthetics
The Wankel is not a 2-stroke mix-ratios are NOT comparable and does not require fuel/air mixture to lube the main bearings.
Really liking this channel. Subbed!
There is another premixing lubricant that I researched and said to be pretty good for rotaries called Protek-R. I'm thinking Protek-R and Idemitsu are the best for premixing most Wankels, but there are still other options out there as well
Yeah thats the one my rotary mechanic gave me but its pricey and not as available as Idemitsu.
Why would you bother with anything else other than the premix Mazda used to win the LeMans 24 hours...?
Idemitsu all the way and nothing else.
great content! keep it up! im a new rotary owner bought a s4 na. also a 88' lol im in the bay area, and the bay area rotary guys are awesome, but these videos are super helpful! let me know if there is any way to help you out, expand for this new year.
how often should you premix? every fueling, etc?
Every time you rebuild your engine...
any chance you'll be going on over Rx8 premixing and such, both series 1 and series 2 ????
On a Rx8 series 1 you should premix 1 ounce to 1.5 ounces a gallon because unlike their series II counterparts, they only have two OMP injectors instead of the three. On a series II you can premix between 1 to .5 ounces per gallon and be fine.
You should never pre-mix an RX-8 that would be monumentally stupid.
doktorbimmer what makes you say that
Hey I have factory rx7 twin turbo I just get the vehicle. Use premium fuel or regular???
I like the idea to premix looks like help to maintain the engine with 100% lubricate
Been subscribed for years and finally picking up my first rotary. Do you have a video on “bandaids” to help a RX8 with suspected low compression? I wanna get the most life until I either decide rebuild or swap
great video, do you have a video on how to install a msd 6aL box to a carbureted 13b? engine off an 1987 rebuilt.
Would you consider e&j apex seals a hard seal? And most puerto rican rotary mechanics told me to use 4 ounce to a gallon
Thats only if your building a crazy setup for racing.
Rotarylover they told for street applications as well
AuAxShiftZ E&J seals work great for a. Street setup as well.
AuAxShiftZ they are one of the softer seals.
Thank you so much. I've been wondering for a while, what if I got a Mazda Wankel, disabled/removed the stock oiling system, and just ran it on 2stroke premix, like Amsoil. No one answered me, until I found this video. Did no one answer me because I was asking mostly in 2stroke videos? Is it because wankels are rare, or is this some unspoken dark art?
I was looking for lightweight engines with great power-to-weight ratios, for a motorcycle project. I was looking at gas-turbines, but I wanted to give Wankels & 2strokes another look, and plan around mixing oil at a gas-station, or have separate tanks, drain one premix tank, switch to another, go to a station when I have the opportunity, fill the empty tank with a certain amount of gas, then add a predetermined amount of 2stroke oil, that will mix in the tank, as I ride.
Don't have to worry about cops, or other degenerates messing with me while I calculate & mix oil.
Whether hooning at night, avoiding cops, or having to gas up at a shady station, I think my 2 tank idea with a switcher valve, is the best option, if I was going to rely on a 2stroke or Wankel.
Again, thank you.
Subscribed.
Hello!!thanks for those infos! i would like to know what to consider to determine the max rpm of a rotary.. oil pressure, boost, balance? what is the limiting factor, what mods can be done to tune to higher rpm etc!
Hey Kenny, thanks for the presentation of your video about pre-mixing. Funny thing, I heard from a guy on his rotary***.com website that a person should shy away from using synthetic blends or straight synthetic 2 cycle oil because of the deposits synthetics leave in the internal parts of the rotary engine. About the only non-synthetic, I can find is Briggs & Stratton 2 cycle oil. It states that it is ashless. There's always someone that has different opinions from me; I don't know about you. Anyway, thanks again for the video.
First off, there are 5 different classes of synthetic base stock polymeric molecules used in motor oil, they all have different characteristics.
Secondly, the API does not recognize any difference in mineral, synthetic or synthetic blends and considers the the word "synthetic" a completely meaningless marketing or advertising term.
The API only recognizes 2 base stock classes based on lubricity performance, not formulation.
Mazda recommends 4-stroke motor oil with a API SL or EC-GF3 rating both which meet ASTM D-7097.
This specifies Max. allowable ash deposits of 45 mg. 0.1% by Mass.
The highest ashless 2-stroke oil ratings EXCEED this specification by at least 250%.
This exactly why Mazda specifically requires 4-stroke oil not 2-stroke oils.
Don't waste your time and money following bad advice that will only harm your engine. Follow the manufacturers specifications and ignore people who try to sell you a very overpriced, low quality Asian brand 2stroke oil because they claim it will save your apex seals.
Any fool can pour the wrong oil down the wrong filler hole, follow your owners manual and don't be that guy.
If anyone is wondering numbers. 128oz in a gallon of gas. Divide 128 by your ratio to find the amount of oil. So 1oz oil per gallon is 128:1 ratio. 100:1 ratio would be 1.28oz oil per gallon and 80:1 would be 1.6oz to the gallon. I don't run a OMP, so I use the 100:1 which comes to 6.4oz oil mixed into a 5 gallon gas can.
*Yeah, and you are a moron for removing the OMP... especially if your engines is fuel injected, that is just monumentally stupid.*
So I have a 1990 rx7 fc vert what oil should I use and what to premix it with ?
tc-3 ... u dont need to spend a lot of money... i actually buy the one they sell at 7-11brand.... not new to this been playing with rotarys since the 80s
What do you think about premixing RX-8 R3 engine, which has one additional oil spray point?
Great content :) I have a 2009 RX8-R3. Apparently the 2009 and up models have a 3rd lubrication nozzle that the 2004-2008 models didn't have (they had 2). So do I still need to pre-mix? The previous owner didn't but my compression test (Feb1st, 2017) came back excellent so I still am not sure if it is necessary for the model I have or not.
Premixing is a smart choice - regardless of how many nozzles the engine has.
I don't even run an OMP...
+Adam Zillin wont premix make the emissions not pass?
chinchy111 depends how emissions are done in your area
I'm in Japan... there's always a way to get a car through testing. My staff member's car is a 4 rotor FD and that got through no problems.
im also told that if i just drive and use up all the fuel and then full it up without 2 stroke then it will pass.
Do more rx8 videos
Is the oil to gas ratio the same for the rx8 in my case I have a 2004, not sure what ratio to try, I'm new, also the omp is NOT blocked off and I was planning on running 92-93 unleaded gas I was probably gonna use 93 from Sunoco
Would this be enough lubrication for your e shaft and bearing surfaces or should I still run the OMP as well?
REALLY? You are joking right?
You don't need to pre-mix. If your car is heavily modified and putting out a lot of power, then you will start to consider that. Pre-mixing means you get oil in proportion to fuel flow, so if you're coasting the injectors are closed, so you get no oil. Mazda looked at this early on in the development of the engine and they realized that. That's why they developed the oil metering pump because it puts oil in proportion to the load, not the fuel flow.
If you're adamant about premixing, Mazda's early tests were done with 50:1 to 100:1 ratios of fuel to oil. more than that you're just wasting money and making more carbon.
capnthepeafarmer Can you please explain why this is so?? Do you need to pre mix AT ALL if your rotary is relatively stock??
Do you have any more info on this. I'm very interested to find out more.
look at "The Wankel Engine" by Jan P. Norbye and "The Wankel Rotary Engine" by John B. Hege. They both do a good job at explaining the history of rotary engines and premixing. Older vehicles did indeed premix (~1959), but that's before emissions became important. The rotary engine also uses oil because of the leakage past the seals.
by 1965 the seal tolerances were getting better so the oil leakage past the seals was no longer sufficient to lubricate the housing. So the rotor had to be designed to feed oil to the apex seal for a "designed leak". During this time the oil consumption from the "designed leak" was roughly 500-1000 miles per quart.
Based on that "designed leak" the ratio is roughly 100-200:1. which is basically 0.5oz per gallon.
Mazda and other manufacturers didn't think it was acceptable for a modern engine to require the owner to mix oil in the gas or be able to accurately predict oil flow based on fuel flow. Additionally, emissions were becoming a big deal, it became important to reduce oil consumption to acceptable levels. So Mazda and other manufacturers came up with the metering pump used in the intake path. The oil is metered based on the operating conditions of vacuum and throttle position of the mechanical systems. For example when you are coasting your injectors are at 0% duty cycle and you have no fuel OR oil.
By design the rotary does need oil to aid in sealing of the rotor tip. Don't get me wrong there. If your OMP is working properly then there isn't a real need to premix.
Check out the procedure for testing your OMP in the FSM. With the engine warm disconnect two of the four OMP lines and and put the OMP lever to it's maximum position. Run the engine at 2000rpm for 5 minutes. you should collect roughly 0.2 oz of oil. This procedure simulates the engine and OMP being at redline for 5 minutes. The relation of oil per RPM is basically linear so near idle you can expect 0.02 oz of oil consumption in 5 minutes.
Basically, the engine is premixing for you and doing a better job at it than putting it in the fuel. If you want more "peace of mind" do some basic maintenance and check that it's working. If you want more oil, enlarge the orifices on the pump. My opinion, just leave it stock and check that it's working.
Did you listen to anything he states in this video. Premix is not needed, but anyone with a brain would realize it will prolong the life of their rotary engine by reducing wear and tear on the housings.
Andrew's World I'll keep going with the facts of the matter, you can listen to anecdote and waste your money however you want.
Love your vidios kenny i have a ? Is ok if just put oil in my 1988 rx7 is a stock motor and the emp is working is it ok if i put premix on it too?i appreciate it
You should never pre-mix... this false myth does nothing to protect apex seals and will only cause damage due to detonation and carbon build-up.
Is the second gen 13b intake facing the other way vs a first gen? my intake faces the left if looking at it from the front and am going turbo 13b as well and was wondering how I was going to fit a turbo and intake all on the same side. Would a second gen intake bolt up?
Good info. I will tell my Ricky you are representing
Question: say I'm looking at a completely stock fd rx7 from 1999 - import to the UK. Do you still recommend premixing for daily use? For track work, I appreciate it might make much sense to premix.
*Never premix! This false urban myth is monumentally stupid and is guaranteed to damage your engine... do not listen to these amateur hacks!*
Untill what point you start premixing and where do you put it the pump or fuel tank sorry noob question im new to rotaries
My S5 FC is now turning 29 years old, with OMP going strong.
Kunamutas be a bad day if it ever goes out though!
Bite your tongue bro
~500 huh? at what output would you recommend strengthening the keg/block with pins or upgraded tension bolts?
and thanks for the e85 tip, I'm considering going that route since my s5 is being built for the track here in CA.
Michael Rodgers depends on which block. This motor has goopy half inch oversized tension bolts.
TIIs you'll need it around 300-350, REWs need it around 500-600
I don't own an rotary. I plan on buying and building a strictly drift car FD in the near future. Ive been watching videos and checking out some forums for research on the future build. My question is if running pump premium and water methanol what would you recommend for premix or what are specific things you've heard work or don't work? the water meth would be for preventing predet and to really help cool the motor.
Did ya get one, how’s it doing
If you have an RX-8 with the second gen Renesis it has two more injectors to add oil so would you still pre-mix with that?
*You should never pre-mix any Renesis engine... Premix does NOT prolong the life of your engine if your OMP is operating correctly and will only cause long term damage. Mazda and it team of engineers DOES NOT recommend premixing any production engine equipped with metered oil injection.*
*ALL Wankel engines are 4-STOKE. 2-stroke lubricants should NEVER BE USED as they DO NOT meet Mazda's motor oil specifications. 2-stroke motor will cause long term damage to the engine, fuel and emissions systems.*
If your rotary powered car has a catalytic converter pre mixing will greatly shorten its life. An RX8 has two catalytic converters and will cost 2200 for the cats.
I read somewhere that marvel mystery oil can prevent issues in rotary engines. And is safe for catalysts. :)
What would you do if you bought a Seris 1rx8 with the oil injection problems premix and do a cat delete?
*NEVER Premix a RX-8... this is monumentally DUMB and will only damage your engine.!!!*
Good luck with getting to a high enough milage on a rotary engine kd on that exhaust to actually clog it , premix or not
is this also for the 05 rx8 i want to buy 1 and i need to know everything about the ways to extend the life of the car
I dont' own an rx-7 but I do have a question. I work in construction heavy equipment, then tamps, saws etc. Lots of the small stuff uses two stroke but we obviously pre mix it in a small gas can and use as needed. If you were to put it in the fuel tank. Would you put the amount of oil you're going to need in before fueling so that as the gas is being pumped in, it'd possibly be mixed more thoroughly or Well I don't really have any other ideas on it. But I am genuinely curious.
I'm pretty sure either one works fine,two-stroke oil mixes really well with gas and the vibration from the enginge should do It's part too. I've never tried it but if you scale down the amounts,try pouring some gas in a plastic container and add a fiftieth(or whatever mixture you're running) of oil to see how it behaves! I'm kind a curious too whether it needs any mechanical influence to mix or if it does so by potentially released chemical energy!
It shouldn't be a question of how thoroughly it mixes though from my understanding of chemistry,there's only the question of how quick it mixes :)
I presume the S5 gives you a warning light on the dash if the OMP goes bad as it's electronically injecting oil into the engine from there in the S5s. Is this correct?
what are your thoughts on using injector cleaner in a rotary, like seafoam or lucas, in with the premix?
B 12 Chemtool it's less abrasive and more reliable than even lucas I have been using these products and with much success for 30+ years
david horan cool, thanks.
Sorry if it's an obviously stupid question, but is there any way to premix if you have LPG set up? Because it has that special kind of plug, and you can't just pour oil into it. I don't have LPG yet, but considering that in my country it costs half as much as the basic 95, I'd absolutely like to convert it. Any ideas or help is appreciated!
Are you serious?
Premix always reminds me the good old 2-stroke engines. Since the Wankel engines are 4-stroke, and not requiring a premix has been pointed out as an advantage of reciprocating 4-stroke engines compared to their 2-stroke counterparts, I guess many people would either become confused about Wankel engines or simply reject them because they see premix as a burden that can be avoided with a more conventional engine.
*True, all Wankel engines are 4-stroke. Mazda does recommend pre-mixing for very goods reasons... anyone advising you to pre-mix is simply not qualified to make such recommendations which will only waste money, increase your chances of a premature engine failure and damage sensors and emissions components.*
@@doktorbimmer We premix with a lot lower ratio than a 2-stroke.
And the regular oil being supplied to the Apex seal thru the chamber and is getting burned (or the lack thereof) is more damaging (having more deposits) than a 2-stroke oil that is designed to burn easily.
People actually block off regular oil supply to the apex seal, then just use 2-stroke oil as the main lubricant, that results in cleaner chamber,
What's your opinion on using Marvel Mystery Oil as a premix? Rotary guy's have used this for years as well with good results.
AMSoil Saber 2 cycle oil would probably work well. Fully synthetic and has fuel stabilizers now, too.
i fill mine with amsoil dominator synthetic 2 stroke oil to hit the e-shaft and roller bearings, rotor.
How can you add lubricant to LPG? Is there a device available - maybe like the ones drivers of regular engines use to inject upper cylinder lubricant
*Mazda equipped all of the RX engine with just such a device... its called an OMP!*
Does it matter how much power you're outputting? I got mines rebuilt about 16k miles ago and I do half an ounce to the gallon.
pettit racing uses klotz 2 stroke oil for pre mix Had a fd was all pettit racing did the pre-mix no issues for 20K pre mix your rotary you will happy that you did
Question:
Engine braking downhill say 3000rpm ( injectors are at idle fuel flow...are apex seals getting sufficient lubrication from premix at said rpm? Just curious because I switched to premix. Thanks.
If you are engine braking the car is fuel cutting so basicaly starving the engine from oil (if you deleted the metering pump)
@@adws5696
That’s what I thought so too. By theory, rotors would be running dry with no fuel and no oil? I have deleted the oil metering pump like some rotary owners and can’t go back. So I guess we’ll just have to avoid ‘engine braking’? Any suggestions? Thanks.
@Liboy so in that case the only source of lubrication is the fuel, and thats why your supposed to NEVER coast or engine brake. There is a video of Rob Dahm when he says the same.
And yes in theory they run dry 😰
@@liboy9844 always a foot on the gas or put it in neutral
So that injector clog issue? haha seemed kinda big. How do these effect fuel pumps, filters, and injectors that were not to push something as viscous as oil?
No one has really had problems as far as I'm aware with the e85/oil mixture. Funny enough, we're putting my 10th Anni on the dyno this weekend, I just ordered 128oz of Klotz Supertechnique, we're going to be putting E85 premix to the test.
Rotors Magazine I didn't say e85, I just meant pump gas. E85 I presume was more abrasive so less likely to clog in my mind.
Oh, so if you're speaking just about gasoline and premix, it's minimal if any effect. 2 stroke oil is designed to work in fuel systems without harming them.
this might be a dumb question, but can you premix even though you still have the omp still running? and so, how much Oz. per gallon should I use?
Yes, you'll need to use less premix to avoid dropping the octane of your gasoline too low, your mileage may vary, just hop on a forum and see what others are doing!
can I use marvel mystery oil & conventional mix?
I startup a few times my motor whit the metering pump bad it startup but then when to protección a alos again how do i ser if is Any damage
I just bought a 2004 rx 8 yesterday, and so that makes me new....and was wondering where do i put the premmix? ask a stupid question i know....but ive never delt with rotary engines before so i dont know
In the gas tank along with fuel which is where the ratios come into play. But you may see catolitic converter problems if you do so I recommend straight pipe
I would recommend having a plastic tub in your trunk with a measuring cup, premix, and funnel. Fill up the premix before putting the gas in. Great time to pop the hood and check your engine oil level as well (would keep a qt of that in the tub as well).
Will the premix help with reduce the fume? I read somewhere a while back that it help quite lot.
If you use synthetic it won't create any smoke, however, it will make the fumes more prominent regardless of which oil you use. Don't premix before a emissions test (smog) or you will fail.
In eastern europe you cant really find Idemitsu , so the closest I got to was Castrol Power1 2T synthetic
*Castrol Power 2T DOES NOT meet the minimum engine lubrication specification for Mazda engines... no 2-stroke does..*
*Mazda does not recommend premixing because there is no advantage or reason to, this only damage your engine. There are no 2-strokes oils that meet Mazda's current specifications.*
*Mazda says only oil that meets API SL/ EC GF3 is recommended.*
*Never pre-mix engines equipped with metered oil injection and never use 2-stroke oil in 4-stroke engines like the Wankel unless specified by the manufacturer.*
I like your videos. Subscribed.
I'm confused on what to use for my s5 fc. I want to use idemitsu but I heard that you can't use synthetic oil in rotaries? Is there a reason why idemitsu is okay to use?
*Mazda does not recommend premixing and there are no 2-strokes oils that meet Mazda's current specifications.*
*Mazda says only oil that meets API SL/ EC GF3 is recommended. The API does not recognized any difference between synthetic and non-synthetic base stocks and considers it a completely meaningless marketing term so that false urban myth is completely debunked.*
*Never pre-mix engines equipped with metered oil injection and never use 2-stroke oil in 4-stroke engines like the Wankel unless specified by the manufacturer.*
May i know why you suggest RA super seals to premix 1.5oz per gallon ?
Musab Azman RA seals are a very hard seal.
if im using klotz supertechniplate which has 20% castor oil.. still must remain 1.5ounce per gallon ?
ROTORS ...
BROTORS bro , can i use 2 stroke oil tcw3 for premix ? example..evinrude xd100
*2-stroke oil DOES NOT meet Mazda specifications and will cause damage, follow manufacturers recommendations and DO NOT PRE-MIX EVER!!!!*
Great video. You speak well.
I am using shell fully synthetic 2 stroke 450ml per full tank gasoline.now my rx8 80k km with no problem .
Anybody know, if Lucas Semi-Synthetic Smokeless is any good?
what weight do you premix with?
Did i get it right? I use rotary aviation super seals. So i may use 1,5% premix? Now i use 1% mix but just get it to run and idle right...
To dumb this down, for a Carbureted 12a like mine, you basically mix a bit of oil with gasoline in the tank?
Two stroke oil. Not engine oil. Same stuff you premix for a lawn mower.
Rotors Magazine. would you still use the same ratios
premix vs using just plain thicker oil to lube the entire housing? isn't it kinda the same? i use 10w-30 for over 10 years.
Used dirty engine oil vs clean premixed two stroke
okay lets add change oil often for the thick oil and not premix, would both options probably have the same life expectancy for the engine?
No, because you're adding in the element of an oil metering pump that can fail without warning and no indication of its failure.
okay i am only working with 1 variable here, not adding any additional stuff like oil pump fail or dog got sucked into the engine. only talking about change oil frequently with thick oil vs premix. probably have the same life expectancy for the engine?
OMP failure is extremely common and a major cause of failed engines.
would you recommend keeping the OMP or remove?
WarrantIllusion Is recommend removing the OMP all together and just premixing.
ROTORS okay even with twin turbo. Some people said to remove it with a single turbo. And keep with twins. But just bought one. Thank you for the response
I'd delete the omp if you're gonna premix. You're just adding more oil to the equation if you don't.
wat about premixing 1st gen rx8?
subie skyline34 if i remember right there are only 2 oil injectors on the 1st gen, premixing was a must on the 04-06, 07 and up I don't think it's that necessary but I've done it anyway because it's a better way to lubricate the seals. If you've owned the car for awhile and have not been doing it I recommend a compression test, and I also hope you bought the car with an up to date compression test.
Never pre-mix the RX-8
First off bro. Your fucking lighting setup is good in the dark.
50:1 requires about 2.3 oz per gallon, so 1 oz per gallon should be around 100:1
Id recomend bringing up the rotary aviation adapter ton inject 2 stroke oil vs using oil pan oil as well as it is an option too.
*WRONG! 2-stroke oil DOES NOT meet Mazda's specifications and using unrated oils is DUMB!!!!*
Great great great vids man
Will Lucas 2 stroke oil be good?
*Lucas® 2-stroke oil is not recommended for 4-stroke engines and does not meet Mazda's motor oil specifications for Wankel engines... no 2-stroke oil meets API SL/ EC-GF3 or ASTM D-7097 standards*
@@doktorbimmer So only use idemitsu for premix
*No, Idemitsu premix is only JASO FC rated... this is a significantly lower rating than required by Mazda and produces 250% higher carbon deposits that API SL/ EC-GF3.*
@@doktorbimmer So no premixing then? Lol
*Mazda does not recommend pre-mixing... and there is absolutely no evidence that supports the myth that premixing extends engine life... Mazda engineers developed meter oil injection because it is superior to premixing.*
*Pre-mixing causes carbon build-up, damages sensors, spark plugs and emissions equipment and increases the chance of apex seal failure due to pre-ignition... (pre-mixing lowers your effective octane rating) It is the least accurate method as it can only deliver oil based on air/fuel ratio... which changes based on operating conditions and will deliver too much oil when it is not needed and not enough when it is.*
Hello if anyone can help me with my rx7 please comment back. I'm having issues ..after I installed my freshly rebuilt turbo(bigger turbo s4 13b Mico tech) when I put it in I had to move some pump up(pollution pump I think) and it jammed a hard line which I'm pretty sure is the omp line. I never realized it jammed this hard line. It ran great no problems lots of boost I took it on a 4hr drive the next day and on my 4hr drive home the thing started running very speratic it literally died as I pulled in the driveway home. So what I'm asking is did I mess it up by jamming the omp line and taking it for a long drive??? Any help would be greatly appreciated
Cody Neef Hi Cody, Does the line(or hose) you pinched have oil in it. The oil metering pump is under the lower radiator hose on the front cover ,just follow the lines up from there and see if it is any of the one's you pinched. So to start with pull the spark plugs out. Then take of the intake pipe from the throttle body. With the throttle blades open squirt some engine oil down the intake from a lever type oil can. Pull out your fuel pump fuse and disable the coil packs. Crank over by hand first and if it feels OK use the starter for a good 10-15 seconds. put some more oil in the intake and repeat. When winding the engine over you should hear 3 good pulses from each rotor housing. If you have a compression gauge give it a compression test. (if you don't have a rotary engine specific compression gauge)take the schrader valve out of a standard one and watch the needle movement. If it is even across all 3 pulses refit spark plugs ,replace fuel pump fuse and put some premix in it straight away. Now try to start the engine. This will let you know if you have done any damage. I hope it's all good mate. Let me know how you get on with it. Cheers Mark....
Mark Thomas Thanks for the reply. I ended up doing some research and figured out it was a omp rod that I jammed in the "up" position. which I was told actually adds more oil. I did a compression test and indeed the rear rotor had a weak pulse. too much drifting and racing oh well.
Cody Neef Cheers .
Do you have to premix
Simple half a oz to gallon if you have a omp. 1 oz.to gallon if you dont.
What about injector failures with premix? I hear its going bad for injector
Never premix, this is stupid advice without any evidence to support it works or does not damage your engine.
Premix can make Rotary clean for Carbon?
No, pre-mixing causes more carbon and damage to the apex seals, never pre-mix...
Stihl two stroke?
Yeah, premix if the OMP is busted or deleted. Also if you're gonna build it up. Been a SA owner and lover for over a decade.
You have to be monumentally stupid to pour the wrong oil down the wrong filler hole... if you can't read the owners manual or the label on a bottle of motor oil you have no business working on any vehicle.
Premix for series 2 RX8's also?
*NO! Do Not PREMIX EVER!!!!*
*Today marks the 6th anniversary of the end of RX production, on Thursday June 21, 2012 at **4:30**pm the final RX-8 car ever to be produced rolled off the assembly line, the last RX model to ever be produced by Mazda.*
Bimmer,
What did the screaming voices say to you today?
*No screaming at the Mazda dealer Johnny... the very polite salesman told me that you were wrong, they don't sell cars with Wankel anymore.*
@@doktorbimmer
Bimmer, Did the screaming voices tell you about UAVs.
*The United States Military said in a very pleasant voice... we do not use shitty Wankel engines in our UAVs anymore.*
@@doktorbimmer
Bimmer, stop fibbing.
Thanks
Plus sump oil is not high temp. proper 2 stroke oil is. It's a massive difference to longevity.
Wankel engines are not 2-stroke.
Mazda only reccomends 4-stroke motor oil.
There is no 2-stroke oil available that meets Mazda's minimum API rating..
Premixing isn't just a complete waste of money...
It will damage a healthy engine.
hey for those of you who premix...did you remove your OMP?
MIchiel deRuyter we do on 99% of cars.
*Removing the OMP is not recommend, especially on a fuel injected car. Mazda used a OMP because it is simply much better than pre-mixing.*
5w or 10?
My RX8 srries1 is hardly consuming oil. Help!
*Series 1, or any RX-8... find a sucker ( I mean buyer) for it as soon as possible before the engine dies completely.*
i got rid of my OMP, premix all dayyy son!
Will premixing not increase carbon build up?
I would say it depends on oil you use. Modern 2-stroke oils don't burn in the combustion chamber (or just partially) and they also have some aditives for cleaning carbon residues, so the engine may end up cleaner, than it was before.
Yes, pre-mixing is very bad, it increases deposits and increases the chance of damage to the apex seals, its stupid to pre-mix any Wankel engine designed to use an OMP.
Your successfully running your premix at 128:1?
Premixing is monumentally stupid... you have to be very dumb to pour the wrong oil down the wrong filler hole
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Usually one would share factual and verifiable evidence to support one’s opinion but I realize this is the internet and that bulk of its users are dolts.
@@draganbalzic4493 Its called a owners and service manual...
Learn to read the label on a bottle of motor oil, imbecile!