The Program For Older Lifters Isn't The Same As For Younger Lifters - Starting Strength Radio Clips
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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As a hospital physician, I can tell you he’s 100% right about the pneumonia point. Just don’t get up to 30%+ body fat.
I'm surprised. As a person who's been diagnosed with pneumonia over a dozen times it seems to me that I have far less lung trouble when my lungs are in shape. I have not seen a doctor for any lung trouble in over 20 years. Am I a walking miracle or are you guys wrong?
@@joeaarrestad2356 Neither. Population based studies show lower all cause mortality in BMI 25-29 compared to other groups. The reason is not known, but it is postulated that having a little extra fat is protective if you get seriously ill such as cancer or a severe infection requiring prolonged hospitalization.
Having calorie reserves is helpful if you are seriously ill and unable to eat. However too much fat is still unhealthy due to metabolic issues, skin integrity issues, cv fitness etc.
@@joeaarrestad2356 you’re setting up the false dichotomy that pulmonary fitness can’t coexist with moderate body fat. They can, and then you enjoy the benefits of both. Maybe you won’t be Iron Man Tri pulmonary fit, but any time you absolutely maximize one thing, you have chosen not to maximize another.
The saying goes "strong people are harder to kill."
At 58 I discovered Starting Strength.
Yes I gained weight. 6' 250. I grew glutes for the firs time in my life.
Just before my 60th birthday I slipped on icy stairs in yard and bounced down 5 stairs on my ass. Huge adema on my glute and lost 5 units of blood to bruising. But had zero pain and didn't break anything.
10 weeks later back to linear progression. Thank you Rip for your program.
❤
Thanks Mark. I’m 5’9 / 195 but a growing older younger man.
I’ll be 51 in March. I’ve been lifting since I was 17. I mean religiously, 5 days per week. In my 20s and early 30s, I still had a 500+ lb squat. At age 40, I had a leg fracture that had that leg atrophying and the squat poundage never came remotely close, so I switched to lower poundage and more machines for legs. I still remained strong in my upper body, but in the last two years, my strength is going down and I have aches and pains I’ve never had before....lol. It is truly humbling and a bit depressing.
Yeah same me too. I started dropping gym sessions. Twice a week now. I can still go heavy just once a week but I had to after aches and pains from getting old.
I think it's the lack of heavy squatting which is an overall strength builder and test booster
I'm 62 and at 41 I had a shattered heel, spinal injury and dislocated shoulder. The leg above that heel severely atrophied. It's still getting better as long as I lift, though. In addition to squats and deadlifts, Bulgarian split squats, weighted banded lateral lunges, and seated and standing calf raises help me a lot. I do the big stuff twice a week and the little stuff on some of my off days. Hang in there.
To everyone regardless of age...u can train hard , or u can train a lot , u will not do both no matter what your ego whispers In your eat. The guys who can do both are on steroids and so any program on earth will make them grow and recover lightening fast
Shout out to the Barbell Prescription💯💯
Shoutin' back! Thanks.
I'm 58, 6 feet, 240 pounds, been working out 4 times a week for 2 and a half years. I'm now using Mike Mentzer's High Intensity Training and the gains have been hard to believe. I now do 3 days a week with a full week rest for each muscle group after training. High intensity dictates ONE heavy set after warm-up, that set is carried to full muscle exhaustion and failure. In fact you do about two forced reps (with your workout partner) after muscle failure. Then get lots of rest, rebuild and grow, come back NOTICEABLY stronger next week. By doing this I added 10 pounds to my flat bench dumbbell presses in ONE week, going from 3 reps at 110 (per arm) to 3 reps at 120 in a week....and 9 reps at 110 before the 120 set because I didn't know before starting that I had gained so much strength that I was ready for the 120s. Because the reps are low in number, and it's fewer workouts per week, but it is intense as only training to complete failure can be, I recommend this program for any person who is serious about gains in strength and muscle mass, and PARTICULARLY for the "mature" crowd which I must concede that I am now part of.
To everyone regardless of age...u can train hard , or u can train a lot , u will not do both no matter what your ego whispers In your eat. The guys who can do both are on steroids and so any program on earth will make them grow and recover lightening fast
I'm 52 and hit the ceiling hard on weeks I don't eat nearly enough. Eat. Sleep. Lift. Repeat.
I'm 32 and the same things apply.
I'm 62, 5' 8", 185, and seem okay. I think when you can see strong abs through some fat that person's good. "Do less and enjoy it more."
5.9 210lbs. Lift when I feel like it
At 80 years old I have know intention of carrying around a bunch of fat. Longevity is about staying healthy. 190lbs at 5'9" for a well muscled big boned male might be OK. This kind of weight simply isn't healthy for me and never was.
I’ll just correct you - it’s no, not know. Maybe consider a spell check next time grandpa.
@@VegasMilgauss Nothing wrong with my spelling. It's the wrong word. thanks anyway sonny.
Brand new here: so where do I get the Starting Strength programs? Do the programs come with instructional videos that demonstrate form?
Read the books, or at least read the articles and watch the form videos. You might also want to get a coach.
finding the balance is the problem, who do you think is more likely to have a stroke?
Agree. And who is more likely to develop cardiovascular disease or get cancer. My money is on the chubby guy. I do agree, however, that the chubby guy who lifts will fair better than the slender runner when acute illness sets in.
I love Rip but you don't get sick because you get older; you get sick due to your wrong lifestyle (mainly food choices). If you get colds and flu repeatedly (more than once every 20 years IF THAT, then you ain't eatin' right bub.
As usual Rippetoe oversimplifies the scenario so he can answer it as he pleases. If two middle aged men, one lean and one chunky, both develop pneumonia then other factors have to be considered in predicting their outcomes, including cardiovascular & respiratory fitness, nutrition before & during illness, medications, and quality of care. Rippetoe assumes controlling all factors apart from body composition and preferred training modality, but in reality it's very unlikely that the heart and lungs of a chunky middle aged guy who eats indiscriminately & only lifts weights will be just like that of a lean middle aged guy who eats a balanced diet & only does cardio. Besides that, Rippetoe sets and springs his own either/or trap when the optimal scheme is both-and (both heavy lifting AND cardio conditioning). It isn't without tradeoffs, but for most people it is optimal.
Wrong. All your suppositions are negated by his statement that the chubby guy lifts. Enough weightlifting to keep a decent amount of muscle means all your crappy Family MD advice is wrong. Lifting is enough cardio for health, running isn't enough anything else for health.
@@johnnysquiretubeOlympic athletes who did endurance sports live longer than Olympic athletes.who did strength/power sports on average. Both live longer than average though.
Lol 5'9" 170 lean is healthy why does Rip want everyone to be fat
i know the rationale is sound but 210 and 20% fat means like 40 plus pounds of fat, he probably only has like 5 pounds more lean mass than the 155 pound guy at 10%
Wait what? 155 at 10% would be around 140lbs of lean mass. 210 at 20% would be around 170lbs of lean mass. That's 30lbs not 5lbs.
@@RiamsWorld correct, i mis spoke to some extent. I would also argue that the person who has a proclivity to have a set point body weight of 210 at 5'9 may have a physically larger skeleton than the 5'9" individual who has a set point of 155 slightly leaner.
i.e. aside from just higher bone density their skeleton may have different dimensions or architecture
i didn't do the match first time but i will if you wish
@@RiamsWorld 210 - (210*0.20)=168
155-(155*0.10)=139.5
168-139.5=28.5
a difference of 28.5 lbs lean mass is actually massive and the idea that an individual could on average respond and gain 28.5 pounds of lean mass (post fat subtraction) is probably a very high responder.
No need to be ripped but also no need to have enough fat on you to hibernate for the winter.
Does this mean donuts are an important weapon in the battle against Wuhan Flu? Yeehaa!!!
Matt Hughes was 5’9” @ 170 pounds back in the day. Built like a brick shithouse
To be clear he cut to that weight.
WALK AROUND WEIGHT WAS 195 LBS.
Terrible Information Video
The barbell prescription is a fantastic book. It's just awesome and really should be a gift to all your older folks.
Biker oldy
I’m 40 and bought the BB Prescription. It’s great
Thanks!
Yes it is I have all 3 books
@@RAINSMAN79 Did you have any prior experience with strenght training?
I just got The Barbell Prescription! I’ll be going through it over the next few months. I’m almost 50 and recognize that I can’t keep up with the 20 year olds...or 30 year olds either.
I'm 70 ("sempty") y.o.a. and weigh ~ 182 lbs. at just under 5' 6" (I was just over 5' 6" until one lumbar disc ruptured and another dried up.) My current dilemma is that while I'd prefer to weigh 192 every Sunday when I squat, when it's time to do chins each Friday, I'd much rather weigh 172 lbs. Since I cannot weigh both during the same week, my present weight represents a compromise between the drawbacks of the former : "Do you even lift, Fatty?" and those of the latter : " You should start liftin', Slim." Thus, the key to determining my" ideal" bodyweight is primarily a question of how much MUSCLE weight I can maintain. (my opinion)
Nobody's calling 5'6" 172 "Slim."
FWIIW, this is exactly my experience (though I'm not 70). In December 2019, I got what was diagnosed as flu+pneumonia (now obviously suspect it was COVID but that term wouldn't exist for another few weeks then). I was age 48, 200lbs bodyweight (don't know comp% but lean enough to wear 32-inch waist pants), weight-trained consistently since age 18. I dropped over 20lbs of bodyweight in less than a week before they put me in the hospital and it was April 2020 before I felt 100% again. If I had been lighter and not as strong, I am not sure I'd have made it--sickest I've ever been in my life. Now running Texas Method and hitting lifts I haven't seen since my early 30s but that's for another post.
Since my gym is my happy place I do one heavy exercise 5 days per week. I add chins on deadlift and squat days. I am still going up. Have started over a few times because of life and injury.
I love rip but his knowledge on the dangers of visceral fat is nonexistent and anything weight related and health should be ignored
Fully agree. His a great coach and contributed a lot to strength and conditioning science but he is oversimplifying most of longevity and overall health related aspects.
I think there’s a difference between what Rip has actually said about nutrition and what Rip memes have said (these tend to be attributed to him or are quotes taken out of context).
His programs are amazing in terms of building base strength and the core lifts/progression. He is also a human being (albeit a very learned and experienced one) and anyone who places him on a pedestal without looking at other perspectives and fitness/strength/conditioning/health philosophies/practices is going to eventually be disappointed.
@@jonathand9682 Well said, fully agree with you.
He’s right regarding the outcomes in people over 70-75 who are admitted in a hospital. Pneumonia is the perfect example. “Chubby” people tend to do better. I am not saying that being fat is healthy. I am pointing out a fact.
Hi Mark, you discuss ruptured muscle bellies and bleeding/bruising in your 3rd edition. This just occurred to me, just above my right knee. It started with a lump about 1/2 the size of a golf ball, followed by bruising. Pain is an annoyance. I have had no drop in strength and added 5lbs to my squat this week which is what I normally do each Monday. The bruising is beginning to go away, the lump is gone. As I was and am still able to perform my exercises I thought there is no point in stopping. As noted this is an annoyance but not crippling. I am almost 60yrs old but general recovery seems ok after my workouts in all 4 exercises - squat, press, bench, deadlift.
Do 3 x 5 at 255 with my recent increase. My best 1 rep is 300. From your experience am I taking the right approach or should I wait on squats until the bruising is gone. Thanks
20% body fat aint chubby . thats lean . remember 70 years old 30% body fat male is post geriatric
My thing as a senior is to keep my weight down! I was 354 in 2012
How can I progress on my curl strength? I know 5lbs a session isn't possible for something like bicep curls so what would you recommend?
IT'S NOT PART OF THE PROGRAM. YOU WILL BE EXECUTED IF YOU PERFORM ANYTHING OTHER THAN SQUAT, BENCH, DEADLIFT, OVERHEAD PRESS AND POWER CLEAN FOR 5 SETS OF 5 REPETITIONS.
Out of curiosity, why are you trying to get stronger at a curl?
@@kabby8084 because I want to
Weighted pull-ups
@@hasanc1526 y u want 2
I'm 5-6 150. 43 years old. I feel like I'm in between these young novice athletes and old enough for the barbell prescription. Sometime in strong and recover well and some time it just kicks my ass to do even twice a week. Heavy once or twice seems to do me well. It's always been difficult for me to keep my weight above 155-160 for any prolonged period.
I will not tell you what weight you should be. But I will say this: if you'd like to get above 155-160 for a prolonged period, and while typing your comment you were not holding a sandwich, there's your problem.
You should be getting at least 1 gram of Protein per lb bodyweight. There's a study that's convincing enough of that for me and on top of that I had to learn it the hard way. You also have to get enough carbs in. Go for 1.5 grams per lb bodyweight and move up until you can start gaining.
I'm 49 and have no problem with strength training and gaining as long as I stick to 2 days per week. That's along with eating and sleeping enough.
@@HAL-dm1eh NASM nutrition recommends 1.6g but yeah I eat as much as I can.
@@DavidFobare obviously were not talking bmi here because that would mean I'm suppose to be no more than 125lbs or else I'm considered a obese lol. I stay fit and strong. I know I could be stronger but life happens and scheduling demands are what they are. I eat about as much as I can without making myself sick.
So fat fights off sickness?
5'9" and 170lbs equals 25.1 BMI which is overweight.
BMI doesn't account for body composition. An "overweight" person could be much healthier than a "normal weight" person.
Overall health means so much more when using Rips example.
Yes like not wearing a mask. Lol
@@jonathand9682 Healthy people under 65 years old. Do not need to wear a mask. The key word is HEALTHY !!. 💪🏾
@@72Dexter72Manley72 did u miss the lol. Joke. Full body Joe = half brain joe.
@@jonathand9682 I saw it my man.
@@72Dexter72Manley72 oh honey I'll never be YOUR man. 😘😘😘
As kidney transplant patient I agree with him unit weight doctors would operate you if you are very thin and you can die being starvation in hospital because you have very low fat after my transplant doctor Skip saying me increase your weight
The fat,chubby guy who lift weight manage to get back better and faster from the pneumonia than the thin guy that run ? Really ? And what if the thin guy lift weight instead of running ? Or did both running and lifting ?
57 5'8" 245. One year at a SS gym. Been on triples for quite a while, 3 days a week.
Hi, interesting is that because you don't recover from doing 5's ? Are you doing SS or some other programme ? I ask because I'm 65 and following an Andy Baker programme which is % based so loads and reps vary. Thanks.
@@SteveW67
Like everything.... it depends... In general, from reading Rip, and Barbell Prescription by Baker and Sullivan (highly recommended) older lifters do not recover as fast as younger. We can handle intensity better than volume. So a heavy triple tends to be better than a lighter 5.
Im on an intermediate program under my SSC. I do volume squats on Monday, 3 sets of 5. Just did 310. Friday is intensity a triple for 355.
Been on BBP for about 6 months now.
What’s your programming look like and what’s your results?
Do you even lift
I got that book. Godsend
This guy should add an arm day.
5'9" and 170 is healthy, as long as your waist is below 30 inches.
If you can gain muscle and keep your waist the same, good for you.
170 is too thin, if a natural disaster or illness comes your way and you can't eat as well, you're less likely to survive.
That's the point, the so called healthy one cannot endure harsh conditions for very long.
Was gonna buy Starting Strength, I’m 42, should I get The Barbell Prescription instead?
Both
@@MrJuggernautz Makes sense... A bit more pf reading can’t hurt.
Thanks.
@@marcosj.a.9461 Trust me, get SS and read it first, then read Barbell Prescription. I read SS, Practical Programming for Strength Training and then Barbell Prescription.
Granted as Andy Baker said, most of what's in PPST probably won't be applicable to a Master lifter, but I read it anyway and it gave me a good view on programming possibility. You will be so armed with knowledge for yourself with those books it's not even funny.
Get both because the Barbell Prescription doesn’t show you how to do the lifts in detail and refers you to Starting Strength for the details.
Get both and actually do Starting Strength beginning with just the bar. When you stall make your changes.
An old guy at 70, now I'm offended !!!, being offended is not just for young snowflakes ... :)
Boomers are bigger snowflakes then any younger generation.
I've been through 9/11. 2008 crash and during after graduating my trade school the economy was at an all time low since the great depression. You guys were spoon fed.
@@kevinerb6268 Didn't see you in Vietnam.
@@Nipajim also that's not a very good example considering you guys got your asses kicked
What about if an older guy is on TRT?
Do the program.
Can confirm SS as written works for us older guys on TRT. My path to 4-5 plates on all the big lifts (and ~15kg weight gain) has been SS --> TM --> Bill Starr 5x5 (original).
@@GreySteel Are you on TRT GreySteel?
@@gothops2632 nope
I wonder whether this answer is based on science. I doubt it. The statement “he’s got more to work with” seems to me pretty idiotic.
It's called physiologic reserve. If you become bed bound for some reason (car accident, for example), you will lose muscle very quickly. The less you have, and the weaker you are, the faster you will become debilitated and end up with a blood clot, pneumonia, etc. All-cause mortality is actually a slightly lower for people who are a little "overweight".
I'm 52, 5'11', 248#. I lift 4 days per week, usually MT, ThF. Recovery management is the most important part of my program. Having said that, my current PBs are 525 squat, 550 DL, 345 B, and 275 OHP. No, 5# more a week isn't possible for me, but one rep more on one set over last week or last month at a given weight usually is. Adding 10-15# to my 1RM in a year is a reasonable pace for me. Always appreciate your insight Rip, thanks.
Lol he thinks anything leaner than him makes someone skinny
5’9” and 170 lbs. is a little guy.
you can have a lot of muscle on you at 5'9 170. If you have a BMI above that you better squat like 600, lmao
thats not really true, top level competitors in the 183lb weight class are like 5'5, 5'6. they're pretty lean too, bicep veins etc. 5'9 can be more like 190-200 relatively lean.
Chubby = healthy. Got it!