00:21 - How Leigh first became interested in meditation 00:57 - Chögyam Trungpa, Ayya Khema, and Leigh’s first meditation retreat 02:20 - Pot head to yogi - giving up heavy pot use after the retreat 03:01 - Buddhist practice vs Buddhist religion 04:25 - How Leigh quit pot 05:05 - Ayya Khema, Leigh’s first teacher 06:48 - The importance of following instructions closely 09:03 - Discovering the first jhana in Thailand with Ajahn Buddhadasa 11:16 - Further studies and learning all 8 jhanas from Ayya Khema 12:46 - Insight training with Ayya Khema 15:25 - Did Ayya Khema use the 4 Path Model? 20:20 - Leigh on Stream Entry and gradual vs sudden awakening 23:46 - Is awakening achievable by non-monastics? 25:38 - Leigh’s controversial take on Western Dharma teachers who claim full awakening 27:52 - Sutta criteria for an arhat 30:45 - Did Ayya Khema become an arhat before her death? 32:45 - Learning Rigpa practice from Tsoknyi Rinpoche 37:19 - How Leigh uses the rigpa state in his own practice 40:51 - Comparisons between Tummo and the Jhana practices 44:14 - What are the jhanas and how are they practiced? 51:23 - Are the jhanas necessary for insight practice? 54:33 - Surprising obstacles to learning the jhanas and the role of talent. 1:01:16 - Why most people underestimate their concentration potential. 1:03:01 - The role of lifestyle and sexuality in meditation success 1:08:10 - Leigh’s take on the Siddhis, supernormal powers, achieved through concentration practice 1:16:16 - Considering anecdotes about the siddhis of teachers like Guru Ma and 16th Karmapa 1:18:45 - The current frontiers of Leigh’s personal practice 1:25:41 - The Buddha’s most important teaching 1:27:51 - Nagajuna and the Suttas
Thanks for this podcast Steve, I’ve watched a lot of them recently and it’s been really lovely listening to meditators from different traditions to me. It’s also very noticeable how that some of your guests are extremely tense and self-involved, while others are open and compassionate.
That was definitely one of the most enlightening interviews I've ever watched. Definitely a teacher who knows and sees and keeps nothing in a closed fist. It was his book on jhanas alone that helped me to discover that the material jhanas weren't the otherworldly states other teachers regularly implied, only attainable on long retreats. With this book the 4 material jhanas came relatively easy to me, up and down, over and over.
Wow - thank you so much for sharing. Can you talk a little about your past experience? How often you meditate etc? And what do you do for work? I am very curious and an avid meditator
What a fascinating dialogue . Inspires me to keep on with the practice of the practice and the growing of the knowledge. You certainly do have a gift when it comes to asking insightful questions Steve 🙏🏼🤍💧.
Enjoyed this one too. Again, Steve's sharp and precise questions made a big difference. Would have like to hear more of Leigh's dzogchen practice. Thanks _( )_
Great interview! Just a reminder that the Buddha spoke of four Jhanas, four ayatanas, and two independent of those labels: the signless concentration of mind, which is equivalent to rigpa, and the cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness, which is not an experience at all. We get in the habit changing the language of the suttas and consequently create unnecessary confusion. The Buddha clarified everything for us if we could just be satisfied with what he taught.
“Don’t be fooled by your concepts”... LOVE that you ask what people are playing with right now. And his reply...ahhh. So relevant and a great reminder of an under rated practice/tool! I often use Byron Katie’s self inquiry as supplement to my Vipassana/other practices for seeing my BS blind spots. It’s been so insightful in a kind way. Thank you for sharing! Great interview 🌱
Thank you Steve and Leigh. My feeling is that here is vein of pure Buddha Dharma that’s made its way all the way to now.. To my mind, Ayya Khema’s transmission works on the mind to mind beyond conception level, as well as providing beginner and intermediate method practices. It seems to me that Leigh’s words also carries this flavour with the addition of an understanding of the brains’ pleasure seeking dynamic and putting the functionality of the initial Jhanas in that context ie providing mundane rewards before settling down into slowing habits of mind down enough to then have insight into the ephemeral nature of them. I also like Leighs observation about equanimity being the ‘acid’ test of realisation. Steve, I very much appreciate your interviewing style....its nectar to observe a deep mediator interview a deep meditator without very much mud being disturbed. Ive noticed in your interviews that you seek to facilitate an opening of the lotus, rather than reframe your interviewee’s models into your own. You seems to use your own observations, reading and realisations with a light touch....”not holding to fixed views” . Nice one. Thank you.
Brilliant episode, the best one to date, In my opinion anyone authorised by Ayya Khema to teach is definitely worth listening and learning from, Steve your an excellent host, well done and keep up the good work
Guru Viking the conversation flowed effortlessly, I like his pragmatic no nonsense approach, I’m a big fan of Ayya Khema, folllow her teachings online, I consider her my ‘guru’
Guru Viking unfortunately no, really wish I had have met her, there is an abundance of her talks online, in a way it feels like I do know her, listen to her talks and follow her meditations
I have had a couple of experiences, one when I was on a silent retreat at an Anglican monastery in mirfield West Yorkshire, none of the monks could explain what it was till I read about the Jhanas in one of Ayya Khemas books, for me it happened via prayer, usually using a rosary
Our mission while sitting in meditation. Vipasanna meditation. When we become fluent in vipasanna meditation, we begin to realise the state of mind we are in. It is very important to know that state of conciousness so as to progress further. One must differnciate it clearly or how then one is going to progress without knowing. The path of vipasanna meditation is to calm the mind to the state buddhist call it samadhi which are vitaka (initial entry to first stage of calmness) that lead to vichara(sustaining of the first state of calmness) This initial state of calm is known as 1st samadhi. Upon one ability to hang on to this first samadhi, the mental progress will continue to develop further reaching the state of piti which is the second state of calmness. Usual meditator experience it say he feel like, floating, lightness, tear flowing and mind is calm without much problem to watch the breath. Then as one can maintain this state of mind with ongoing inbreath and out breath, one will reach the 3rd samadhi calmness of mind that spell bodily pleasure more stronger then before when in 2nd samadhi. Some meditator begin to feel very happy, some see bright light, some see mind sparking, some see shadow passing. These are strong concentration that bring about nimita from the mind that appear to be real but the meditator must not attached to it but continue to be mindful, free from attachment and to be calm. After this moment occur and if the meditator mind is strong are not disturb, distract, non attached, no delusion, non greed on this occurance, the meditator will be continue to progress to realize and aware that the breath become softer, subtle, disappear and nobody sensation feeling aslo disappear and here it is UPEKA. Very important state of mind to reach as one is like being in the moment of emptiness, nothingness, space Thinking still exist during this experience. Here very important not to get lost, gets excite, gets deluded and too many on going thinking will take you out of this upeka. So during this monent stay calm as you can see there is thinking on going but do not let thinking become master or you will be kick out of upeka. Stay calm stop thinking and be with the condition. During this moment while you are staying calm in upeka your mind or i shall say you 5 mental faculties are in behind making adjustment and trying to be balance to be upeka and if successful if it is auto able to gets balance(meaning greed, hatred, delusions are removed as that 5 faculties are capable to become balance or become neutral, when that happen, your mind will shuts down and you enter the streams of ariya. Sadhu sadhu sadhu This article is written out of compassion for one who seek the path so difficult indeed and this article is carefully written from the path that was reached as a gift to all vipasanna practioner from a sotopana. BUDDHAM SARANAM GACCHAMI
Thank you for this interview. I think he would benefit from reading Bernardo Kastrup as far as his metaphysics and ontology is concerned. You should interview him too.
I do want to expand upon my previous comment as it was just criticism. Leighs meditation instruction has helped me get into jhana with breathe better than any other teaching I have come across, so I am deeply grateful to him
Good interview, thank you, and I recommend that Leigh take a look at the evidence for psi phenomena (what he calls ESP) because there actually is a considerable amount of evidence from scientific studies (science is a method not a position) for several such phenomena.
Guru Viking! This is so much better than I thought it would be. Sign me up for an arm bracelet done in high relief with dragons on both ends! High marks all round! Best piece of dharma I've seen on the net in a long time. Rejoicing w/ thanks and in the many merits you have made by doing this. :)
Concentration meditation is about bringing your mind to stillness and one pointedness. It’s like a fast sports car at 60 mph is in 5th gear, you have to down shift slowly until you eventually get to neutral. You have to approach meditation the same way. First just get used to sitting and relaxing. Then you start to notice the breath. Finally you can start to focus on the point of turbulence at the tip of the nose. Eventually this fades and it becomes (to me) a fluctuation of energy. Disclaimer I’ve not reached the first jhana yet but know the path there.
@@Selen304 I haven’t read Leigh’s book but it has high reviews. I’m read ‘The Mind Illuminated’ by John Yates PhD who is a meditator and neuroscientist.
I am reading his book. I find there is a lot of useful info but also quite minimal at points. For example on the first Jhana he points out the importance of staying with the breath but not important details regarding the process or the pauses of the breath. Good book overall, thank you Leigh
Following Ayya Khema audio instructions - and a retreat with Leigh - I manage to get initially to the four jhanas, and later the 5th and 6th..I found the practice very addictive..after practicing daily for a few months I thought I was dukkha-free when out-of-blue there came a very difficult dark night that lasted for what seemed an eternity🙃 Anyway, I stopped practicing and lost access to the jhanas😟 Want to start again, not sure how difficult it could be now..
Amazing - thank you so much for sharing. Can you talk a little about your past experience? How often you meditate etc? Retreats etc? And what do you do for work? I am very curious and an avid meditator
Ajahn Brahm intimates that he is able to levitate. Dipa Ma was said to have mastered the Siddhis, not just as lucid dreaming. I myself was reading Ashida KIm's "Art of Invisibility" and can say I had an experience that would lead one to believe invisibility was possible.
To me it looks like Western Buddhism is reinterpreting The Buddha’s teachings into a modern rational viewpoint. (Or in other words interpreting based on their current cognitive bias). In my actual experience my insights have been amazingly accurately relatable to The Buddha’s description of various insights in the Sutta’s. Gautama appeared to be exceptionally clear & exact in describing reality. If Siddhi’s relate to dreaming, there’s nothing clear in the Suttas to support this interpretation. So I remain open to the possibility of the Siddhi’s but I’ve not actually experienced them. I like Leigh’s point that the more we become liberated, the more we answer questions with “I don’t know!”. Which is my view on the subject!
@@GuruViking It was during one of his many RUclips videos. Probably one of his Jhana videos. He jokes saying that if he let everyone know he can levitate that he would essentially be taken by some government agency and would be subject to them. Was he joking? I didn't take it that way. I will take a brief look around and see if I can find the video - a tall order because he has so many.
@@GuruViking Found the video. Called Superpower Mindfulness I marked the subject with a time stamp for you Look for stamp called Pychic Powers here ruclips.net/video/OSAY1_ykmY0/видео.html Very inspirational!
@@Rover08 He also claimed that for every animal or bug that dies a new one is reincarnated making the number of lives always equal which is complete nonsense. Ajahn Brahm spews a lot of nonsense like the story he told of the man that was deep in meditation and woke up after being resuscitated.
I don't understand why he complicates non-conceptualisation so much, its ridiculously simple: whatever you perceive, you just see it for what it is, in its fullness, without interpretation based on memory, like you're seeing for the first time, without comparing it to another idea. Also, this leads to the most profound non-dual concentration so how can it not be classed as jhana?
The 20-23 minute area is rather troubling. There are in fact clear milestones for Stream Entry. It is not mysterious, nor difficult for a teacher to diagnose once some time has passed and the student is able to report on what they’re going through. How can I say this with certainty? Because the practice changes significantly in the aftermath of SE. There are things that begin to happen which cannot happen prior. Experienced insight teachers know these changes well. As for westerners claiming awakening and Leigh doubting them all (quite a claim!), I thought Daniel Ingram’s writings on the Models of Enlightenment had helped establish that what we all like to consider the traits of awakening just demonstrate more about our misconceptions than about awakening itself. An awakened person is still a person. Referring to ancient religious texts set up to deify these traits is hardly a way to get to grips with reality. Anyway, great interview and appreciate your awesome work!
The problem is that not only does each school of Buddhism have it's own definition of enlightenment, but so do the other vedic religions like Jainism and the different Yoga schools along with Hinduism. I've come to the conclusion that enlightenment doesn't even exist. It puts mythical people like the Buddha on a pedestal by those that wrote down his teachings. The Buddha was probably just a philosopher with a bad case of depression and schizophrenia (he claimed he only slept an hour a night and taught his teachings to aliens at night).
i would disagree with you . there are indicators that may tell whether one has reached sotapana (stream entry) . but it's difficult to tell by oneself .Good example serves the sutta where a merchant would get angry at his employees and would go to buddha and ask him whether he attained sotapana and buddha would reasure him he did,but the merchant was doubting it due to still being able to get angry . The only clear milestone is reaching the 3 stage called anagami (never returnee) ,where one has removed completely loba(anger/aversion/hatred) and lobha (greed/desire) . The stage where one is not interested in fullfilling his 6 senses.
@@johnbloom1109 your comment is filled with wrong views and ignorance ,but that's okay. there's no such thing as school of buddhism .There is Dhamma ,which describes how things come into existence (suffering ) and how to stop it .Just like science describes how things work. could you please elaborate what does enlightenment mean in your perception and what is the enlightment buddha talked about?
I think the siddhi of reading people's minds could be concentration enhancing the pattern-recognition of emotional intuition. Plenty of people are empaths and naturally recognize the precise emotional states of others. And when you know someone enough, you can know generally what's on their mind just by the way they act. Therefore, with natural ability, enhanced concentration and experience of lots of people, I think your intuition can pin-point when people are having specific thoughts and emotions (whose combination implies things about their habits and past experience)
i’m old and hard of hearing.. would you please tell me leigh’s go to meditation after his jhana practice is finished. sounds like “repo .” will send you much Loving Kindness. 🙏
It’s interesting that my practice had been chiefly rinzai and soto zen but I went through the whole 8 jhanic states without actually learning it systematically.. also Shikantaza is basically open awareness… if people take it off the cushions into every day life cessation happens!
Cool - thank you so much for sharing. Can you talk a little about your past experience? How often you meditate etc? Retreats etc? And what do you do for work? I am very curious and an avid meditator
@@JoshuaRichardson123 Sorry for such delayed reply. i didn’t see your comment until I listened again to this interview. I was raised a Buddhist, met my Zen teacher at 5 years old and became his student. I left for Toronto, Canada shortly after. I'm from Vietnam but later grew up in Toronto, Canada. Although I didn't practice Zen (Thiền) until 15 years old. Vietnam doesn’t distinguish Rinzai or Soto Zen like Japan. It isn’t sectarian so we just call it Patriarch Zen and practice both methods together. I went to a few Thich Nhat Hanh's retreats as a teenager, listened to thousands of hours of Dharma talks, read hundreds of Buddhists books, studied Classical Chinese and Zen texts, but my practice didn't go anywhere until my teacher came out of 10 years solitary retreat to guide me. I experienced Kensho at 28 (Zen's equivalent to stream-entry). It was a very deep awakening that I had no choice but to go all out. Basically, I sat 1 hour before that but after I sat 2-4 hours daily for 5-6 years after and took my practice off the cushion to everyday life. I went on two 3-4 months solitary retreats in 10 years and a lot of 1-week solitary retreats. When people say taking things off the cushion, they don't really know what it means. It means open awareness or non-dual states outside of the cushion. It's referred to as Wu-Wei in Taoism and Rigpa in Dzogchen or the 7th Jhana in Theravada Buddhism. But Theravada's Buddhism Jhanas and Arupas only refer to sitting meditation, not off it. You can actually experience it off the cushion in everyday life, when that happens, it's referred to as "cessation". In Zen practice you have to continually crack your head against koans for years continuously to return to the non-dual state and learn to enter it often in everyday life to be able to let go of all conception. So I basically did that while working professionally as a legal consultant and running my own business. It's hard, but I'm challenged with "hard". That's why I'm attracted to Rinzai Zen or the Vietnamese equivalent Lâm Tế Thiền. You got to learn to do "moving meditation" while having the ideal condition in a solitary retreat. You seriously need to be able to call up a good teacher for directions or explanation of whatever you're experiencing if you're going into solitary retreat. It can be a real mind-trip if you are doing something longer than a month! When you figured out how to be in the still-point or experience non-duality while moving about, then go back to regular life and apply it. I basically have to take the mental stance, make a decision at all times that nothing else, including my life, my career, my money, my status in society, and my family was more important than the practice of maintaining inner stillness (the mental internal practice, not the external sitting one, although I did a lot of that too). Although I didn't really lose out making that choice because they all kinda worked out. But it's an attitude most people will not do in any sort of practice. Although I did make a choice to not have any children early on in my Buddhist practice because I know children are the strongest of all attachments. Children also take up a lot of time so you won't have enough to dedicate to the practice. So the dedication to the practice is very rigorous. One of my teachers in Vietnam, who was a wandering begging monk of the Theravada tradition who wandered for 20+ years to beg and sleep under trees, told me that to truly practice meditation in the world you have to take the stance "A meditator is a person who is already dead, to use this dead body to experience the present reality." I've been very grateful that I was lucky to run into two wonderful dedicated yogis in the Buddhist meditation traditions (one Theravada and one Zen) who are not famous but quite adept at meditation and the dharma practice because that's all they cared about. So I started my path when I was 15, now I'm 46. My advice to any practitioner who is serious about their practice is... find a good teacher, or a few good ones and stick to them. I stuck with my first teacher for 27 years and still have a good relationship with him. While he was in 10 years solitary retreat, I must have gone through dozens of teachers who were allegedly famous but were nowhere far in their meditation practise or being able to translate that to everyday life. I found out the hard way, you're busy being famous, you have no time to dedicate to your meditation practice. Also, famous teachers have no time for you. A serious meditation practice requires a lot of personal guidance and one on one communication. Get a teacher you can call up and discuss your experiences with at any time. Two of my teachers were both meditation virtuosos and lived pretty much a humble lifestyle remaining relatively unknown in the Buddhist community. I can't tell you if becoming an Arahant is possible, because I haven't met one yet despite meeting hundreds of famous and dedicated monks and nuns in their practice. They all seemed to still have 3 poisons arising. Although being an Anagami is possible and entering and exiting cessation is possible in everyday life or as a householder. I also noticed that I lost interest in desiring for a lot of things since being able to enter and exit cessation often, especially sensual desires toward the opposite sex. The longest I was able to do that without breaks is 10 days. Now pretty much it's an everyday occurrence since if I stay out of cessation for long, suffering ensues. Even a little mental discomfort is HUGE suffering now, so I can't help it returning to the still-point. Any form of willing or the most subtle arising of desire to not accept things as they are in the present will take me out of the non-dual still point. It’s not an easy practice at all. My teacher said if someone don’t lose the cessation experience sometimes, they’re pretty much the walking Buddha. I have no regrets for embarking on this practice. It paid off in spades, more than anything I could have imagined when I started it.
When one in these states it's impossible to think about anything. Only pure awareness remains. Then how vipassana can be applied when one can't think at all? Or maybe there is something else besides simply being pure awareness?
Does anyone know why Brasington's website - which he alludes to in his talk - is down? Is he still conducting meditation courses/retreats, and if so, where does one go to contact the facilitators?
I wondered what Leigh will say about yogic breathing. Stan Groff discovered a breathing technique that elicited LSD experiences, but is this being lost in illusion or are the doors opened to someplace?
leigh in his article wrote that piti(meditative joy) in jhana is supposed to be intense and euphoric in culmination but his teacher ayya khema, in one of her jhana talk, explicitly stated that piti is not rapturous and shall not be translate as rapture. Such discord is going to baffle the listeners...hope the interviewer can raise this question to leigh in the future interview.
Pali term for meditative joy is "Preethi" western pronunciation sounds like "piti" . I heard there is samatha dhyana and vipassana dhayana and the latter is not intense
On entering Jhana faster. What I do is create and maintain unconditional pleasure & happiness all day by inclining the mind towards wanting this moment. This creates first Jhana all day. When I sit, mind enters second to fourth Jhana quite quickly and easily. I’ll be posting a video on this practice in the next few days. Jhana is available for anyone who focuses on the practice elements with no desire for the results.
A Christian monk on the Holy Mountai Atos n told me - "Ah, you Buddhists, the most important thing for you is not to sufferyou you are obsessed with that idea... and you insist and try so hard about it... but that is impossible... All those jhanas, methods, stages in development would disperse in contact with the real unimaginable sufferings and horrors such as war camps, torture, etc.....
In the realm of the formless or Immaterial World, when in Jhanas 5th to 8th, there is no body of any kind. There is just a type of consciousness, conventional existence as we know it, but without a body. The life spans are very long in the formless realm and one attains to these levels by the formless jhanas They are not necessarily the best places to be. At these levels, one cannot hear the Dhamma from a Buddha or arahant on earth or any other planet.
in my opinion the buddists only seem to have half of the full process of the immaterial jhana states which are the personal psychological states but they never seem to deal with the energy states which are also a part + parcel of the jhana + which involve a more multidimensional sense of awareness , It also seems odd to me that when one has completed the jhanas all the way to cessation or nonbeing then what is the process of return from such a state . as one has gone beyond neither perception nor non perception , so , what is it that compells them to return ? why is none of this dealt with in the buddist jhana ? It seems to me that the biddists in their practice of the immaterial jhanas only deal with a personal salvation + not a universal salvation which is implied + implicit in the energy content of the jhanas . Why do they not deal with the energy that is implicit in jhana , as it must be obvious to most that without the energy context then jhana is more like merely mental concentration than the inclusivity of the energy that drives all psychol;ogical states as obviously energy is a part of awareness as much as awareness is a part of energy . Very unscientific of the buddists or perhaps they have lost the portion of the teachings that include the energy that is within + a part of all being .
@@MrS85755 the Seth material for me contains the most up to date descriptions of these energy states + potentials . It is rather a large body of work but you can find some good renditions of it on you tube there is one video about the god-concept that you may find interesting . if you type in Seth god concept it should take you there . Hope you find this interesting .
In his book he claims that Buddha didn't believe in reincarnation, nor the survival of consciousness beyond the death of the body. Am I misunderstanding your position?
I don’t understand how can one sexually active enter Jhana when Buddha said without abandoning 6 things one incapable of entering first jhana Anguttara nikaya book 6 73 “Bhikkhus(Monks), without having abandoned six things, one is incapable of entering and dwelling in the first jhana. What six? Sensual(sexual) desire, ill will, dullness and drowsiness, restlessness and remorse, doubt; and one has not clearly seen with correct panna(divine knowledge), as it really is, the danger in sensual pleasures. Without having abandoned these six things, one is incapable of entering and dwelling in the first jhana.
Because when he spoke of abandoning the 5 hinderances it was only supposed to be temporary abandonment, like abandoning them for that meditation session.
I don't agree with all that Leigh says here, or maybe I need more clarification, but I do believe from direct experience that one not need maintain any sexual inactivity before entering the Jhanas. I think this taught backwards, to be honest. Once getting Jhanas, the desire for sexual activity and the other restrictions on freely living - die down dramatically on their own. It is very difficult and now I know - unnecessary - to stop all sexual activity before you can reach Jhanas. :)
This is nothing much, you either reach Samadhi, and that's it, what is this stuff,. And until Samadhi, there is no Guru. Following the breath is the very basic thing, something you do in the very begging, why are you talking about this at a Guru level.
Leigh seems to have an inflated ego. The complete opposite of what you’d expect from somebody enlightened. He went from being addicted to pot to being addicted to the image of himself as somebody who is enlightened.
00:21 - How Leigh first became interested in meditation
00:57 - Chögyam Trungpa, Ayya Khema, and Leigh’s first meditation retreat
02:20 - Pot head to yogi - giving up heavy pot use after the retreat
03:01 - Buddhist practice vs Buddhist religion
04:25 - How Leigh quit pot
05:05 - Ayya Khema, Leigh’s first teacher
06:48 - The importance of following instructions closely
09:03 - Discovering the first jhana in Thailand with Ajahn Buddhadasa
11:16 - Further studies and learning all 8 jhanas from Ayya Khema
12:46 - Insight training with Ayya Khema
15:25 - Did Ayya Khema use the 4 Path Model?
20:20 - Leigh on Stream Entry and gradual vs sudden awakening
23:46 - Is awakening achievable by non-monastics?
25:38 - Leigh’s controversial take on Western Dharma teachers who claim full awakening
27:52 - Sutta criteria for an arhat
30:45 - Did Ayya Khema become an arhat before her death?
32:45 - Learning Rigpa practice from Tsoknyi Rinpoche
37:19 - How Leigh uses the rigpa state in his own practice
40:51 - Comparisons between Tummo and the Jhana practices
44:14 - What are the jhanas and how are they practiced?
51:23 - Are the jhanas necessary for insight practice?
54:33 - Surprising obstacles to learning the jhanas and the role of talent.
1:01:16 - Why most people underestimate their concentration potential.
1:03:01 - The role of lifestyle and sexuality in meditation success
1:08:10 - Leigh’s take on the Siddhis, supernormal powers, achieved through concentration practice
1:16:16 - Considering anecdotes about the siddhis of teachers like Guru Ma and 16th Karmapa
1:18:45 - The current frontiers of Leigh’s personal practice
1:25:41 - The Buddha’s most important teaching
1:27:51 - Nagajuna and the Suttas
This interview…I learn something new every time I listen to it. Thanks so very much.
Thanks for this podcast Steve,
I’ve watched a lot of them recently and it’s been really lovely listening to meditators from different traditions to me.
It’s also very noticeable how that some of your guests are extremely tense and self-involved, while others are open and compassionate.
That was definitely one of the most enlightening interviews I've ever watched. Definitely a teacher who knows and sees and keeps nothing in a closed fist. It was his book on jhanas alone that helped me to discover that the material jhanas weren't the otherworldly states other teachers regularly implied, only attainable on long retreats. With this book the 4 material jhanas came relatively easy to me, up and down, over and over.
Wow - thank you so much for sharing. Can you talk a little about your past experience? How often you meditate etc? And what do you do for work? I am very curious and an avid meditator
Past retreat info too** :)
What a fascinating dialogue . Inspires me to keep on with the practice of the practice and the growing of the knowledge. You certainly do have a gift when it comes to asking insightful questions Steve 🙏🏼🤍💧.
Thanks Jo!
Enjoyed this one too. Again, Steve's sharp and precise questions made a big difference. Would have like to hear more of Leigh's dzogchen practice. Thanks _( )_
Thanks Kim, I'm happy you enjoyed it!
Leigh is great. His book Right Concentration helped me make so much progress!
Great interview! Just a reminder that the Buddha spoke of four Jhanas, four ayatanas, and two independent of those labels: the signless concentration of mind, which is equivalent to rigpa, and the cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness, which is not an experience at all. We get in the habit changing the language of the suttas and consequently create unnecessary confusion. The Buddha clarified everything for us if we could just be satisfied with what he taught.
“Don’t be fooled by your concepts”... LOVE that you ask what people are playing with right now. And his reply...ahhh. So relevant and a great reminder of an under rated practice/tool! I often use Byron Katie’s self inquiry as supplement to my Vipassana/other practices for seeing my BS blind spots. It’s been so insightful in a kind way. Thank you for sharing! Great interview 🌱
You're a great interviewer and listener. Thank you 🙏
Thank you Steve and Leigh. My feeling is that here is vein of pure Buddha Dharma that’s made its way all the way to now.. To my mind, Ayya Khema’s transmission works on the mind to mind beyond conception level, as well as providing beginner and intermediate method practices. It seems to me that Leigh’s words also carries this flavour with the addition of an understanding of the brains’ pleasure seeking dynamic and putting the functionality of the initial Jhanas in that context ie providing mundane rewards before settling down into slowing habits of mind down enough to then have insight into the ephemeral nature of them. I also like Leighs observation about equanimity being the ‘acid’ test of realisation. Steve, I very much appreciate your interviewing style....its nectar to observe a deep mediator interview a deep meditator without very much mud being disturbed. Ive noticed in your interviews that you seek to facilitate an opening of the lotus, rather than reframe your interviewee’s models into your own. You seems to use your own observations, reading and realisations with a light touch....”not holding to fixed views” . Nice one. Thank you.
Thank you very much!
I agree, I think Steves interview style is also awesome
Well said! with Ayya Khema’s transmission would it work to listen to her audio and do self retreats?
@@JoshuaRichardson123 definitely worth the effort😊
Brilliant episode, the best one to date, In my opinion anyone authorised by Ayya Khema to teach is definitely worth listening and learning from, Steve your an excellent host, well done and keep up the good work
Thanks Lee! I'm curious what you think made this the best one yet? :-)
Guru Viking the conversation flowed effortlessly, I like his pragmatic no nonsense approach, I’m a big fan of Ayya Khema, folllow her teachings online, I consider her my ‘guru’
@@leekrogulski2415 Great! I'm glad you enjoyed it :-) Did you ever meet Ayya Khema?
Guru Viking unfortunately no, really wish I had have met her, there is an abundance of her talks online, in a way it feels like I do know her, listen to her talks and follow her meditations
I have had a couple of experiences, one when I was on a silent retreat at an Anglican monastery in mirfield West Yorkshire, none of the monks could explain what it was till I read about the Jhanas in one of Ayya Khemas books, for me it happened via prayer, usually using a rosary
Awesome clarification. Thank you, never heard anything this clear before!
Our mission while sitting in meditation. Vipasanna meditation.
When we become fluent in vipasanna meditation, we begin to realise the state of mind we are in. It is very important to know that state of conciousness so as to progress further.
One must differnciate it clearly or how then one is going to progress without knowing.
The path of vipasanna meditation is to calm the mind to the state buddhist call it samadhi which are vitaka (initial entry to first stage of calmness) that lead to vichara(sustaining of the first state of calmness)
This initial state of calm is known as 1st samadhi.
Upon one ability to hang on to this first samadhi, the mental progress will continue to develop further reaching the state of piti which is the second state of calmness. Usual meditator experience it say he feel like, floating, lightness, tear flowing and mind is calm without much problem to watch the breath.
Then as one can maintain this state of mind with ongoing inbreath and out breath, one will reach the 3rd samadhi calmness of mind that spell bodily pleasure more stronger then before when in 2nd samadhi. Some meditator begin to feel very happy, some see bright light, some see mind sparking, some see shadow passing. These are strong concentration that bring about nimita from the mind that appear to be real but the meditator must not attached to it but continue to be mindful, free from attachment and to be calm. After this moment occur and if the meditator mind is strong are not disturb, distract, non attached, no delusion, non greed on this occurance, the meditator will be continue to progress to realize and aware that the breath become softer, subtle, disappear and nobody sensation feeling aslo disappear and here it is UPEKA.
Very important state of mind to reach as one is like being in the moment of emptiness, nothingness, space
Thinking still exist during this experience.
Here very important not to get lost, gets excite, gets deluded and too many on going thinking will take you out of this upeka.
So during this monent stay calm as you can see there is thinking on going but do not let thinking become master or you will be kick out of upeka.
Stay calm stop thinking and be with the condition.
During this moment while you are staying calm in upeka your mind or i shall say you 5 mental faculties are in behind making adjustment and trying to be balance to be upeka and if successful if it is auto able to gets balance(meaning greed, hatred, delusions are removed as that 5 faculties are capable to become balance or become neutral,
when that happen, your mind will shuts down and you enter the streams of ariya.
Sadhu sadhu sadhu
This article is written out of compassion for one who seek the path so difficult indeed and this article is carefully written from the path that was reached as a gift to all vipasanna practioner from a sotopana.
BUDDHAM SARANAM GACCHAMI
Awesome interview....loved your queztions
Thanks, Cedar - glad you enjoyed it!
Leigh is one of the best 👌. Thankyou viking. Great questions and answeres
Thank you for this interview. I think he would benefit from reading Bernardo Kastrup as far as his metaphysics and ontology is concerned. You should interview him too.
I do want to expand upon my previous comment as it was just criticism. Leighs meditation instruction has helped me get into jhana with breathe better than any other teaching I have come across, so I am deeply grateful to him
This was great - you’re a wonderful interviewer and Leigh (and his books) have been very helpful to me.
Good interview, thank you, and I recommend that Leigh take a look at the evidence for psi phenomena (what he calls ESP) because there actually is a considerable amount of evidence from scientific studies (science is a method not a position) for several such phenomena.
Guru Viking! This is so much better than I thought it would be. Sign me up for an arm bracelet done in high relief with dragons on both ends! High marks all round! Best piece of dharma I've seen on the net in a long time. Rejoicing w/ thanks and in the many merits you have made by doing this. :)
brilliant questions. excellent interview
Generous man. Great interview questions. Thank you.
Excellent. Very informative.
loved the quick cut at the end from Leigh's joke about the bridge to "that's all the time we have"
Yea I wondered why he did that
@@wanderingdoc5075 most likely just editing the video and didn't realize he cut that part out
Oh this is a good one. I love that he kept it almost scientific in the way he breaks down the states. Definitely gonna check out his website.
Excellent interview and insight into the jhanas.
very very very entristing!!!!
Concentration meditation is about bringing your mind to stillness and one pointedness. It’s like a fast sports car at 60 mph is in 5th gear, you have to down shift slowly until you eventually get to neutral. You have to approach meditation the same way. First just get used to sitting and relaxing. Then you start to notice the breath. Finally you can start to focus on the point of turbulence at the tip of the nose. Eventually this fades and it becomes (to me) a fluctuation of energy. Disclaimer I’ve not reached the first jhana yet but know the path there.
Can you suggest book? I really want to practice with a teacher,but I can't?
@@Selen304 I haven’t read Leigh’s book but it has high reviews. I’m read ‘The Mind Illuminated’ by John Yates PhD who is a meditator and neuroscientist.
I am reading his book. I find there is a lot of useful info but also quite minimal at points. For example on the first Jhana he points out the importance of staying with the breath but not important details regarding the process or the pauses of the breath. Good book overall, thank you Leigh
Following Ayya Khema audio instructions - and a retreat with Leigh - I manage to get initially to the four jhanas, and later the 5th and 6th..I found the practice very addictive..after practicing daily for a few months I thought I was dukkha-free when out-of-blue there came a very difficult dark night that lasted for what seemed an eternity🙃
Anyway, I stopped practicing and lost access to the jhanas😟
Want to start again, not sure how difficult it could be now..
Amazing - thank you so much for sharing. Can you talk a little about your past experience? How often you meditate etc? Retreats etc? And what do you do for work? I am very curious and an avid meditator
I just got off retreat recently and also stopped meditating - lasted a few weeks how long was yours?
Amazing interview. Thank you so much
very good questions Guru Viking
Ajahn Brahm intimates that he is able to levitate. Dipa Ma was said to have mastered the Siddhis, not just as lucid dreaming. I myself was reading Ashida KIm's "Art of Invisibility" and can say I had an experience that would lead one to believe invisibility was possible.
To me it looks like Western Buddhism is reinterpreting The Buddha’s teachings into a modern rational viewpoint. (Or in other words interpreting based on their current cognitive bias). In my actual experience my insights have been amazingly accurately relatable to The Buddha’s description of various insights in the Sutta’s. Gautama appeared to be exceptionally clear & exact in describing reality. If Siddhi’s relate to dreaming, there’s nothing clear in the Suttas to support this interpretation.
So I remain open to the possibility of the Siddhi’s but I’ve not actually experienced them.
I like Leigh’s point that the more we become liberated, the more we answer questions with “I don’t know!”. Which is my view on the subject!
Interesting, do you remember where you saw/read Ajahn Brahm intimating that he is able to levitate?
@@GuruViking It was during one of his many RUclips videos. Probably one of his Jhana videos. He jokes saying that if he let everyone know he can levitate that he would essentially be taken by some government agency and would be subject to them. Was he joking? I didn't take it that way. I will take a brief look around and see if I can find the video - a tall order because he has so many.
@@GuruViking Found the video. Called Superpower Mindfulness I marked the subject with a time stamp for you Look for stamp called Pychic Powers here ruclips.net/video/OSAY1_ykmY0/видео.html
Very inspirational!
@@Rover08 He also claimed that for every animal or bug that dies a new one is reincarnated making the number of lives always equal which is complete nonsense. Ajahn Brahm spews a lot of nonsense like the story he told of the man that was deep in meditation and woke up after being resuscitated.
I don't understand why he complicates non-conceptualisation so much, its ridiculously simple: whatever you perceive, you just see it for what it is, in its fullness, without interpretation based on memory, like you're seeing for the first time, without comparing it to another idea. Also, this leads to the most profound non-dual concentration so how can it not be classed as jhana?
The 20-23 minute area is rather troubling. There are in fact clear milestones for Stream Entry. It is not mysterious, nor difficult for a teacher to diagnose once some time has passed and the student is able to report on what they’re going through. How can I say this with certainty? Because the practice changes significantly in the aftermath of SE. There are things that begin to happen which cannot happen prior. Experienced insight teachers know these changes well. As for westerners claiming awakening and Leigh doubting them all (quite a claim!), I thought Daniel Ingram’s writings on the Models of Enlightenment had helped establish that what we all like to consider the traits of awakening just demonstrate more about our misconceptions than about awakening itself. An awakened person is still a person. Referring to ancient religious texts set up to deify these traits is hardly a way to get to grips with reality.
Anyway, great interview and appreciate your awesome work!
What did he say that’s in disagreement?
The problem is that not only does each school of Buddhism have it's own definition of enlightenment, but so do the other vedic religions like Jainism and the different Yoga schools along with Hinduism. I've come to the conclusion that enlightenment doesn't even exist. It puts mythical people like the Buddha on a pedestal by those that wrote down his teachings. The Buddha was probably just a philosopher with a bad case of depression and schizophrenia (he claimed he only slept an hour a night and taught his teachings to aliens at night).
i would disagree with you . there are indicators that may tell whether one has reached sotapana (stream entry) . but it's difficult to tell by oneself .Good example serves the sutta where a merchant would get angry at his employees and would go to buddha and ask him whether he attained sotapana and buddha would reasure him he did,but the merchant was doubting it due to still being able to get angry .
The only clear milestone is reaching the 3 stage called anagami (never returnee) ,where one has removed completely loba(anger/aversion/hatred) and lobha (greed/desire) . The stage where one is not interested in fullfilling his 6 senses.
@@johnbloom1109 your comment is filled with wrong views and ignorance ,but that's okay.
there's no such thing as school of buddhism .There is Dhamma ,which describes how things come into existence (suffering ) and how to stop it .Just like science describes how things work.
could you please elaborate what does enlightenment mean in your perception and what is the enlightment buddha talked about?
I think the siddhi of reading people's minds could be concentration enhancing the pattern-recognition of emotional intuition. Plenty of people are empaths and naturally recognize the precise emotional states of others. And when you know someone enough, you can know generally what's on their mind just by the way they act. Therefore, with natural ability, enhanced concentration and experience of lots of people, I think your intuition can pin-point when people are having specific thoughts and emotions (whose combination implies things about their habits and past experience)
I wonder when Leigh is coming back to do a retreat at Gaia House, he’s very good..
i’m old and hard of hearing.. would you please tell me leigh’s go to meditation after his jhana practice is finished. sounds like “repo .” will send you much Loving Kindness. 🙏
It’s interesting that my practice had been chiefly rinzai and soto zen but I went through the whole 8 jhanic states without actually learning it systematically.. also Shikantaza is basically open awareness… if people take it off the cushions into every day life cessation happens!
Cool - thank you so much for sharing. Can you talk a little about your past experience? How often you meditate etc? Retreats etc? And what do you do for work? I am very curious and an avid meditator
@@JoshuaRichardson123 Sorry for such delayed reply. i didn’t see your comment until I listened again to this interview.
I was raised a Buddhist, met my Zen teacher at 5 years old and became his student. I left for Toronto, Canada shortly after. I'm from Vietnam but later grew up in Toronto, Canada. Although I didn't practice Zen (Thiền) until 15 years old. Vietnam doesn’t distinguish Rinzai or Soto Zen like Japan. It isn’t sectarian so we just call it Patriarch Zen and practice both methods together. I went to a few Thich Nhat Hanh's retreats as a teenager, listened to thousands of hours of Dharma talks, read hundreds of Buddhists books, studied Classical Chinese and Zen texts, but my practice didn't go anywhere until my teacher came out of 10 years solitary retreat to guide me. I experienced Kensho at 28 (Zen's equivalent to stream-entry). It was a very deep awakening that I had no choice but to go all out. Basically, I sat 1 hour before that but after I sat 2-4 hours daily for 5-6 years after and took my practice off the cushion to everyday life. I went on two 3-4 months solitary retreats in 10 years and a lot of 1-week solitary retreats. When people say taking things off the cushion, they don't really know what it means. It means open awareness or non-dual states outside of the cushion. It's referred to as Wu-Wei in Taoism and Rigpa in Dzogchen or the 7th Jhana in Theravada Buddhism. But Theravada's Buddhism Jhanas and Arupas only refer to sitting meditation, not off it. You can actually experience it off the cushion in everyday life, when that happens, it's referred to as "cessation". In Zen practice you have to continually crack your head against koans for years continuously to return to the non-dual state and learn to enter it often in everyday life to be able to let go of all conception. So I basically did that while working professionally as a legal consultant and running my own business. It's hard, but I'm challenged with "hard". That's why I'm attracted to Rinzai Zen or the Vietnamese equivalent Lâm Tế Thiền. You got to learn to do "moving meditation" while having the ideal condition in a solitary retreat. You seriously need to be able to call up a good teacher for directions or explanation of whatever you're experiencing if you're going into solitary retreat. It can be a real mind-trip if you are doing something longer than a month! When you figured out how to be in the still-point or experience non-duality while moving about, then go back to regular life and apply it.
I basically have to take the mental stance, make a decision at all times that nothing else, including my life, my career, my money, my status in society, and my family was more important than the practice of maintaining inner stillness (the mental internal practice, not the external sitting one, although I did a lot of that too). Although I didn't really lose out making that choice because they all kinda worked out. But it's an attitude most people will not do in any sort of practice. Although I did make a choice to not have any children early on in my Buddhist practice because I know children are the strongest of all attachments. Children also take up a lot of time so you won't have enough to dedicate to the practice. So the dedication to the practice is very rigorous. One of my teachers in Vietnam, who was a wandering begging monk of the Theravada tradition who wandered for 20+ years to beg and sleep under trees, told me that to truly practice meditation in the world you have to take the stance "A meditator is a person who is already dead, to use this dead body to experience the present reality." I've been very grateful that I was lucky to run into two wonderful dedicated yogis in the Buddhist meditation traditions (one Theravada and one Zen) who are not famous but quite adept at meditation and the dharma practice because that's all they cared about. So I started my path when I was 15, now I'm 46. My advice to any practitioner who is serious about their practice is... find a good teacher, or a few good ones and stick to them. I stuck with my first teacher for 27 years and still have a good relationship with him. While he was in 10 years solitary retreat, I must have gone through dozens of teachers who were allegedly famous but were nowhere far in their meditation practise or being able to translate that to everyday life. I found out the hard way, you're busy being famous, you have no time to dedicate to your meditation practice. Also, famous teachers have no time for you. A serious meditation practice requires a lot of personal guidance and one on one communication. Get a teacher you can call up and discuss your experiences with at any time. Two of my teachers were both meditation virtuosos and lived pretty much a humble lifestyle remaining relatively unknown in the Buddhist community. I can't tell you if becoming an Arahant is possible, because I haven't met one yet despite meeting hundreds of famous and dedicated monks and nuns in their practice. They all seemed to still have 3 poisons arising. Although being an Anagami is possible and entering and exiting cessation is possible in everyday life or as a householder. I also noticed that I lost interest in desiring for a lot of things since being able to enter and exit cessation often, especially sensual desires toward the opposite sex. The longest I was able to do that without breaks is 10 days. Now pretty much it's an everyday occurrence since if I stay out of cessation for long, suffering ensues. Even a little mental discomfort is HUGE suffering now, so I can't help it returning to the still-point. Any form of willing or the most subtle arising of desire to not accept things as they are in the present will take me out of the non-dual still point. It’s not an easy practice at all. My teacher said if someone don’t lose the cessation experience sometimes, they’re pretty much the walking Buddha.
I have no regrets for embarking on this practice. It paid off in spades, more than anything I could have imagined when I started it.
@@moonmissy thank you very much
When one in these states it's impossible to think about anything. Only pure awareness remains. Then how vipassana can be applied when one can't think at all? Or maybe there is something else besides simply being pure awareness?
Does anyone know why Brasington's website - which he alludes to in his talk - is down? Is he still conducting meditation courses/retreats, and if so, where does one go to contact the facilitators?
I wondered what Leigh will say about yogic breathing. Stan Groff discovered a breathing technique that elicited LSD experiences, but is this being lost in illusion or are the doors opened to someplace?
Great interview - really enjoyable! I’ll check out Leigh’s book!
You're welcome!
Thank you so much for sharing this! Could you help me with the name of the Sutra he speaks of? I couldn't quite get it. Thank you!
I believe it was the Samannaphala Sutta: www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.02.0.than.html
Alyson Lie thank you! 🙏🏼
Leigh’s webcam resolution is at khanika samādhi
leigh in his article wrote that piti(meditative joy) in jhana is supposed to be intense and euphoric in culmination but his teacher ayya khema, in one of her jhana talk, explicitly stated that piti is not rapturous and shall not be translate as rapture. Such discord is going to baffle the listeners...hope the interviewer can raise this question to leigh in the future interview.
Pali term for meditative joy is "Preethi" western pronunciation sounds like "piti" .
I heard there is samatha dhyana and vipassana dhayana and the latter is not intense
46:25 Gentlemen, Leigh mentions "the nara sound" here. Is that tinnitus? That "piiiiiii" sound we get in the ears when everything is silent?
Wow!
30:36 Shots fired! Probably unintentional.
On entering Jhana faster. What I do is create and maintain unconditional pleasure & happiness all day by inclining the mind towards wanting this moment. This creates first Jhana all day. When I sit, mind enters second to fourth Jhana quite quickly and easily. I’ll be posting a video on this practice in the next few days. Jhana is available for anyone who focuses on the practice elements with no desire for the results.
A Christian monk on the Holy Mountai Atos n told me - "Ah, you Buddhists, the most important thing for you is not to sufferyou you are obsessed with that idea... and you insist and try so hard about it... but that is impossible... All those jhanas, methods, stages in development would disperse in contact with the real unimaginable sufferings and horrors such as war camps, torture, etc.....
Whew! Wow. That’s a lot. What a set of lessons.
This guy’s definition of jhanas are not the real jhanas. They are called the soft jhanas
Why didnt the historical buddha teach Rigpa?
In the realm of the formless or Immaterial World, when in Jhanas 5th to 8th, there is no body of any kind. There is just a type of consciousness, conventional existence as we know it, but without a body. The life spans are very long in the formless realm and one attains to these levels by the formless jhanas They are not necessarily the best places to be. At these levels, one cannot hear the Dhamma from a Buddha or arahant on earth or any other planet.
in my opinion the buddists only seem to have half of the full process of the immaterial jhana states which are the personal psychological states but they never seem to deal with the energy states which are also a part + parcel of the jhana + which involve a more multidimensional sense of awareness , It also seems odd to me that when one has completed the jhanas all the way to cessation or nonbeing then what is the process of return from such a state . as one has gone beyond neither perception nor non perception , so , what is it that compells them to return ? why is none of this dealt with in the buddist jhana ? It seems to me that the biddists in their practice of the immaterial jhanas only deal with a personal salvation + not a universal salvation which is implied + implicit in the energy content of the jhanas . Why do they not deal with the energy that is implicit in jhana , as it must be obvious to most that without the energy context then jhana is more like merely mental concentration than the inclusivity of the energy that drives all psychol;ogical states as obviously energy is a part of awareness as much as awareness is a part of energy . Very unscientific of the buddists or perhaps they have lost the portion of the teachings that include the energy that is within + a part of all being .
Is there any books or other resources that you'd reccomend, about the energies and energy states you are referring to?
@@MrS85755 the Seth material for me contains the most up to date descriptions of these energy states + potentials . It is rather a large body of work but you can find some good renditions of it on you tube there is one video about the god-concept that you may find interesting . if you type in Seth god concept it should take you there . Hope you find this interesting .
In his book he claims that Buddha didn't believe in reincarnation, nor the survival of consciousness beyond the death of the body. Am I misunderstanding your position?
Also his personal interpretation of Dzogchen is way off. Rigpa is not what he describes here
I don’t understand how can one sexually active enter Jhana when Buddha said without abandoning 6 things one incapable of entering first jhana Anguttara nikaya book 6 73
“Bhikkhus(Monks), without having abandoned six things, one is incapable of entering and dwelling in the first jhana. What six? Sensual(sexual) desire, ill will, dullness and drowsiness, restlessness and remorse, doubt; and one has not clearly seen with correct panna(divine knowledge), as it really is, the danger in sensual pleasures. Without having abandoned these six things, one is incapable of entering and dwelling in the first jhana.
Because when he spoke of abandoning the 5 hinderances it was only supposed to be temporary abandonment, like abandoning them for that meditation session.
I don't agree with all that Leigh says here, or maybe I need more clarification, but I do believe from direct experience that one not need maintain any sexual inactivity before entering the Jhanas. I think this taught backwards, to be honest. Once getting Jhanas, the desire for sexual activity and the other restrictions on freely living - die down dramatically on their own. It is very difficult and now I know - unnecessary - to stop all sexual activity before you can reach Jhanas. :)
@@JhanaMeditation agree you stop wanting, it happened naturally to me too
“With scientific background”, “don’t believe in any religion”. Yet he smoked pot for 14 years 😂.
So?
This is nothing much, you either reach Samadhi, and that's it, what is this stuff,.
And until Samadhi, there is no Guru. Following the breath is the very basic thing, something you do in the very begging, why are you talking about this at a Guru level.
Leigh seems to have an inflated ego. The complete opposite of what you’d expect from somebody enlightened. He went from being addicted to pot to being addicted to the image of himself as somebody who is enlightened.