Recommending Zachtronics
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- Опубликовано: 12 мар 2018
- If you've already played these games there's not much here for you but hopefully it provides a good starting point for everyone else. This video has a lot of overlap with my old SpaceChem one but I thought it was worth revisiting to mention the more recent games too.
Series Playlist: • Zachtronics Review Series
SpaceChem: • SpaceChem Review
Infinifactory: • Infinifactory Review
TIS-100: • TIS-100 Review
Shenzhen I/O: • Shenzhen I/O Review
The three games featured in the intro are:
The Talos Principle
Stephen's Sausage Roll
Puzzle Dimension
It's not my intention to single those games out for any particular reason, they were just the three puzzle games I happened to have installed at the time which seemed as fair a way to choose which ones as any. 
Игры
I'm glad I stumbled into this alternate reality with consistent Matthewmatosis content. Love your insights, man.
Totally agreed. Guess we both entered the correct portal.
I don't want to go back.
We need to go back
5:20 "Presumably you can read, if not you may want to start with a different game."
:'(
actually, you can beat infinifactory without ability to read, all clues are in pictures, all tutorials are spatial
Also, "smashing rocks to smashing atoms" was a clever line
I thought it might've been, but I looked it up and I can't find it being used anywhere else.
I got into TIS-100 with absolutely no prior programming knowledge, and I managed to 100% the entire game. It's now my favorite puzzle game of all time!
I found it after taking a class on assembly. It made assembly fun.
Get into programming
You should seriously consider getting into programming. People like to get into development for the money, but dont get far because they lack the required passion for it. If you liked TIS-100… well you certainly have some of that passion
what a fucking legend
i got through about 80% of the puzzles before getting stuck with prior programming experience
@@Ryanisthere sequence mode calculator moment. apparently the average 100% time for that game is 20 hours. i have spent 25 hours on that level alone. i refuse to give up or cheat, but i still only have the mode calculation part, and not the generator for the coordinate system i need for that to work.
"We now go live to me in the studio"
Matthew keeps getting better with his scripts and video composition.
I'm glad Zachtornics is getting some more recognition, I hope they make a lasting impact on puzzle games as a whole.
Well considering that Infiniminer is one of the main inspirations of Minecraft, then it's pretty obvious he had a huge effect on people in one way or another.
“You then get the satisfaction of watching it do it’s own thing and even proudly show it off to other people who smile and nod politely as if they know what’s going on.”
Literally the story of my life. Mathew's humor and analytic precision have always made videos satisfying. Really, just my kind of humor.
This video helped me to believe in myself.
He said Hello ladies and gentlemen.
HE SAID HELLO LADIES AND GENTLEMEN
AT LONG LAST
I just got into Opus Magnum and shared my solution gifs with my co-workers. I got the same polite nods.
The eureka moments are some of the best experiences I have in games. (Feel bad many times when I look up stuff)
infinifactory broke my brain faster than a lot of the others -- i think Opus Magnum is the easiest by way of having fewer limitations. Put your start and end point wherever the heck you want, use as much space as you need.
spacechem i think is the hardest but i suppose i never got that far in tis-100
Actually, I haven't ever beaten any Zachtronics game (getting there in OM tho) but I'll keep buying them, because I tremendously enjoy them all the way up to the point where I can't get any further.
It's hard to say which is the better entry point, Infinifactory or Opus but I went with Infinifactory because of the more intuitive controls/premise. I encourage anyone who watches the video to look at them both and decide which interests you more.
Also want to highlight this comment so people know I'm not crazy when I say you can stop playing these games before finishing them and still feel satisfied. There's plenty of others who feel the same way.
Another thing you didn't quite touch on is how Infinifactory simply looks more familiar. First person controls while building things with blocks is much more recognisable as "a video game" than Opus is, especially if you've played or at least seen games like Minecraft. To an outsider Opus looks completely obtuse, but with Infinifactory they can take a quick look and go "Oh i get it"
I totally agree. The reason I would recommend Opus Magnum over Infinifactory is that it's all there in front of you, visible on one screen (not necessarily true later one, but still). Infinifactory is a first person 3D game, which can quickly get infinitely confusing very quickly. You need to build complex factories in 3D, lacking the overview you have in games like Opus Magnum or SpaceChem.
If you are used to playing FPS then you may not understand the problem, but that's simply because you are used to moving about in a virtual 3D world.
@@AndrewChumKaser fun fact: minecraft was inspired by infiniminer, which was made by zachtronics
as someone who studied micro controllers a bit, I instantly liked shenzhen io. It blew me away by how close it is to the real life alternative. The programing was on point, but also the problems were exactly like the assigments i'd get in class back in the days. I mean, they even had it down to the point of adding an oscilloscope to test your chips with and try to figure out how to plug it all together
That live discussion of the tutorial makes me _very_ aware that I could sit and listen to Matthew talk about anything, unscripted as ever possible, and still come away satisfied and feeling like I learned something to boot. This goes for all of your livestreams as well, of course, but something about the simple act of explaining a feature in a game really nails that fact home.
I'm loving the emphasis on how friendly the game is, and how late-game factorio screencaps can be frightening, etc
it's insightful, in that way where it seems obvious once it's been said
Zachtronics might be my favourite developer of all time. I struggle to think of anyone else who I would blindly buy every game off as soon as it launches.
So sad they are closing the studio now.
Thanks for the video! Love how you can hear your positivity for these games in your voice, I don't normally play puzzle games but I'd really like to give Infinifactory a shot.
And now there's 7 of these games, Exapunks and Molek-Syntez have since come out and they're wonderful continuations of the Zachtronics format
- Molek-Syntez is sorta a flipped-around version of Opus Magnum that deals with drug production, you have effectively-unlimited inputs but heavily confined workspace conditions (even the instruction writing portion is super constrained), it's tough but the main puzzle set isn't too bad; the bonus puzzles are where the game _really_ bares its teeth as you probably would expect
- Exapunks is a cyberpunk-esque variation on TIS-100's node system, you have these little "exas" that carry their own code between locations in the computer system, which they need to traverse to be able to access different parts of the system's data; you're not restricted on really any of the parts that're in your control either - each level has a soft cap on the total lines of code you can use, going over it only renders your solution invalid for the histograms
-They also both continue a trend I think Shenzhen started of having a minigame unrelated to the rest of the game to kill time with, it's great- _I think this also does show that you really don't need to come up with a completely new set of mechanics to provide a different experience, just tweak what you have and bam_
honestly i didnt think i would watch the whole video, but you really kept me interested throughout the whole video, even the infinifactory tutorial. great work!
Great video. You pretty much encapsulated my feeling on the games, I played SpaceChem when it first came out and I loved the concept but from the getgo it was pretty tough and because of that, I've stayed away, but because of this the infinifactory tutorial is an aspect I never saw and honestly would have made me feel a lot better. I've been inspired to jump back in.
Can't tell you how thrilled I am to hear that you will be reviewing all of Zachtronics' titles. After your 2013 video recommending SpaceChem, I've spent nearly 500 hours playing their titles. If anyone reading this ever got into building neat contraptions in Minecraft, there is a good chance that you will instantly love the Zachtronics titles.
I actually got into TIS-100 after you tweeted about it ages ago! Thank you!
What was the Kula World-esque game you showed at 1:16? Been itching for another game like that
Puzzle Dimension. It's from the Kula World devs I believe.
I'm very grateful that you put your references in your description. You'd be surprised about how many RUclipsrs don't do that even to this day.
This channel is criminally underrated.
I find it fascinating how both these sorts of problem solving games and Fighting games have a lot of the same problems, and qualities as well. They are both intimidating for new time players, less complex than you might think, and satisfying when things click. At the same time, not everything is guaranteed to click, and metaphorical mental brick walls lay in the way of the majority of people who play them. I will say that these problem solving games have their own advantages as far as educating the player is concerned. By the nature of them being single player, it's much easier to make a tutorial for this sort of game. Although both games give you toolsets to deal with the problems you are presented with, at the end of the day you're only playing against the board in a single player game, and as a result there will be little to no resistance. With fighting games, you're playing a game that is tailored to a multiplayer experience. You may be quite good at using the tools given to you in training mode, but learning how to apply them mid match is a different skill entirely. All of that is to say that as someone who plays fighting games quite regularly, there hasn't been a single game to date that has provided a worth while tutorial. (People may point to SkullGirls, and the newer Guilty Gear games to having above average tutorials, but at the end of the day they do very little to prepare a player for the multiplayer experience and the mindset required to partake in it.) With how similar these problem solving games are to fighting games in that way, I wonder if one could take lessons from the other to give substantial tools for new players that are interested to get invested.
Man I'm your exact target audience for the "here lemme show you how this isn't as intimidating as you think" pitch. Infinifactory looks so fun so I'm really glad you put this video out!
i can't think of anything else that really replicates the feeling of going back to watch one of my old solutions to an infinifactory or opus magnum level.
they really do a great job of letting you see and feel proud of the solution you came up with. everything you make seems like a real invention. and watching the solution do its work is always so aesthetically pleasing. even when the solution you came up with is totally bodged together and barely functions.
Awesome videos man, love your content, keep up the hard work :)
Just watched your ico retrospective again than this, top stuff!
Thank you for recommending Infinifactory.
I’m too stupid to get to the later 30% of the levels, but I love replaying the others whenever I want to feel big brained.
The difficulty curve is nearly perfect.
Wait you can click and drag conveyor belts what
I love all forms of Matthew. Especially stuffy analysis Matthew in his little booth from a couple of days ago.
I came here to learn about puzzle games, and what I got was Matthewmatosis encouraging me to try things that I find intimidating and telling me he believes in me.
Thank you :)
Cannot express enough how much your point on "what the designer expects of you" and what can be intuited from just the placement of the environment and certain scenes resonates.
I was under the assumption something like a rubix cube is a puzzle. This seems more like an actual job.
My coding skills are high school level at best, but I can solve at least half of the puzzles of TIS-100, SpaceChem and Shenzhen I/O! Then I ususally lose my patience, take a break, and when I return I just spend a couple of hours watching my previous solutions in awe, starting up a higher level one, realizing I forgot how to do anything and backing off. But it really is fun once you get a hang of it, and reading manuals of TIS-100 and Shenzhen I/O is also surprisingly fun and adds to the atmosphere (they're parts of both the plot and the gameplay itself). Just it give an honest try, I beg you, they deserve it, and, if it's your thing after all, you could score a great many hours of unique entertainment with Zach's games.
I’m now really interested in seeing you do a factorio video
wow you're so right -- the whole "if it's there it's probably for a reason" and " if you're doing right it shouldn't be overly complex" that one saved me yesterday. I was working on a puzzle and after I almost had a solution I was like...nah this is lvl 3 -- there's no WAY it's supposed to be this crazy. I figure out a way way easier way to do it but the only way I knew it was possible was because of what you're talking about.
seeing this 4 years later, and zachtronics is officially over
New video nice! The last video impressed me as usual
As someone who's become a big fan of Zachtronics because of your original SpaceChem video, I'm really looking forward to the next 5 videos.
These games look pretty cool and I'm always down for puzzles games, tho i would be lying if i didn't mention I'd probably feel more guilt than enjoyment if I played these instead of using my time and brain power just doing my regular programming assignments. Great video Matthew!
Matthew i just want to say that even though i never really cared about the genre of games you're talking about, you're just too consistently likeable and well worded that i just have to try them. You are seriously bloody fucking awesome. (pardon my french)
If they're genuinely uninteresting to you don't force it on my behalf. That said, I think it's worth trying one to find out for sure whether or not they're for you. If you do, I hope you have a good time.
The Bureau is one of my favorite flash games of all time. I remember thinking what a unique game it was, both in setting and gameplay.
Zachtronics is my favorite developer. I got SpaceChem in a humble bundle as a freshman Computer Science student and it really resonated with what I was learning at the time. The "puzzle" solving process in their games is so similar to breaking down a programming task. I think these games are a great way to show someone what the process of software development is like without the hastle of actually learning programming.
For me though, I would say that Opus Magnum actually felt easier than Infinifactory if you're playing them all the way through. The end game of Infinifactory is especially exhausting.
Really looking forward to your reviews.
I already own both TIS-100 and Infinifactory, although I like both of them, neither of them really had me hooked from the beginning. After watching this video I decided I might as well give Opus Magnum a shot, and so far I'm really enjoying it. Thanks Matthew.
I've been playing a lot of these problem solving games recently and I often find them very challenging at the midway point, where it feels like there's a difficulty spike that I just haven't understood
Just discovered your channel researching Zachtronics. Gas to come across an Irish voice :D
Infinifactory looks great. Sold me on it. Thanks Matt!
Fascinating.... I never tried these games tbh. Maybe I might consider them. Hmm. Usually you make good videos on these sorts of underrated gems. And I have been looking for new games lately.... I'll consider it Matthew just because I feel like I can trust you as my #2 favorite Gaming Analysis reviewer. :D
Mathew: you don't understand this is not as scary as it looks.
Me: It's not about that. It's about my empty ass wallet. I need money.
Mathew: It will be worth your while.
Love that Mathewmatosis is making consistent videos. I hope SO much he makes a video on bloodborne.
Hey Matthew, is there a way for us to know in advance the next game you will review? So I can play it before you uploads^^
Love from France!
I really enjoyed the "from smashing rocks to smashing atoms" joke.
I thought I have to have a computer degree to play these games, after this video I will try to play them. big thanks
This is my favorite going to bed playlist. Especially since I love zachtronic games
Honestly, Infinifactory was an amazing experience for me. I sucked at it. I really, truly sucked at it, but I persevered and got to the second half of the game, and some levels in, before I just burned out on it, so I never ended up completing it. I normally dislike puzzle games, but it was just such an incredibly joy to finish a level, and have something finally click for you.
Only thing I didn't like, was that you can go back to previous levels with the updated blocks you get as you progress, and cut down on the steps. That skews the competition part of it, as you can't measure yourself up against "the world" or even friends who have gotten further, since everyone will have gone back and fixed up their levels with lasers and whatever else advanced tech.
Other than that, it's a superb game. Even if you're (like me) not into puzzle games what so ever. I've recommended it to everyone I know.
My friend has SpaceChem on steam, i came here from your other video, it looked interesting when i saw i couple images of it but you are definitely right i was totally intimidated by the fact that it used chemistry, i had such a hard time with chemistry on school i decided i had no chance of doing those puzzles, now after hearing you i may try them.
*Just though of something else, Infifactory seems to be a perfect intro for someone whos never played videogames, controls are extremely simple but still 3D and problem solving its a skill everyone should develop. I may use as an experiment and get some people into trying 3D games.
Another Matthewmatosis video?!? It's a good time to be alive.
I had a feeling you were going to make this exact video after magnum opus came out.
I loved the hell out of Infinifactory, for pretty much the reasons you described. It's not about finding the one and only intended solution, it's about solving a problem, and it's the first puzzle game in a long time to make me feel smart.
I could only finish TIS-100 (are there bonus levels? Didn't finish them if there are). It looks like the hardest one but I guess being a programmer helped some. I love them all though, but I also didn't buy magnum opus yet.
my favourite developer
I only knew about Spacechem, never knew they made 4 more!
Today at work I caught myself daydreaming of having a voice generator software that reads any text in Matthew's voice.
Hey Matthew, do you ever plan on doing any more full commentary videos? I could listen to your voice all day
I love you Matt. I thought I was the only person on the planet who played TIS. :-)
Only ever played TIS-100, and loved it. Only ever beat about 7 puzzles, but each time I beat one, it's legitimately one of the most fantastic feelings in the world. I definitely need to try Shenzen I/O.
Zachtronics is one of my favorite game companies. They're consistently good for all the reasons you mentioned. Here's the cycle of what inevitably happens to me in every puzzle:
1. That's all? This is going to be a cakewalk compared to the last puzzle. I'll just...
2. Oh. This is less straightforward than I thought. How about if I just...
3. *a dozen more half-finished solutions that are cleverly thwarted by the subtle constraints of this particular puzzle, but only after lulling me into a false sense of having found a solution*
4. A-ha! Take that, you stupid puzzle! I am the god of puzzles! No puzzle would dare defy me again!
5. What the? The histogram says my ingenious solution is in the lowest quartile on every metric! Well, I guess I still have a lot to learn... Bring on the next puzzle!
But the best part isn't during this cycle. The best part is bringing your understanding of the game mechanics back with you to earlier levels and genuinely coming up with elegant solutions you can put next to your original one to see the real progress that's been made.
I bought Infinifactory when it was still being developed and always enjoyed it. The real fun began for me when I realized that, far from being a mechanical oversight, the fact that conveyors can move other un-tethered conveyors and blocks allowed me to imagine up and construct some insanely complex factory solutions that were a nightmare to build but a joy to watch in operation. The leap from conveyors carrying parts through a static series of assembly steps to constructing factories that feel alive, with carriages moving tools all around the product as they work and the control systems to physically govern behavior for them and for the products themselves was amazing. If you dig in at the deep end, your factories can become an elegant dance of product and assembly line weaving through and around one another to arrive at a complex goal.
I'm looking forward to your take on some of their other offerings, as the only other games of theirs I own so far are TIS-100 and Shenzhen I/O (which are both great for puzzling and programming in a lightweight assembly all at once). I was never as intrigued by the other games you mentioned but now my interest is piqued.
Watching this video as part of some extensive questline to watch the spacechem review to watch the infinifactory review
I've always wondered why, when I look at trophies on ps4, that like 80% of people get the first trophy in games. Why isn't it 100%, did 20% of people put the game in and not even play it to the most basic level?
Jonathan Rouse opening your inventory in Minecraft has something like 80%. I find it really interesting to see when most people give up on a game. Father Gascoigne is a big one.
Pat Fagan It is very interesting. Sometimes theres a clear correlation, like some difficult bosses, but I am interested in why some even basic trophies dont get achieved by everyone who play the game.
Most people just bought these games for a long time. They boot them up once to see if they work and putting them on shelve again, where they are played at some point, maybe after several years, just because they buy more as they can play.
Ageleszly exactly
If I had basic experience with programming in C++ and Ruby, will Shenzhen I/O be good for me? I know object oriented programming already, but the majority of what I've coded were simpler and less simple apps in C++ and Ruby...
I love their games, i still mess with TIS-100 from time to time, and while having no coding background made a few of the problems harder to solve, the realisation of the things you can pull out in that game are amazing on its own.
The best thing by far, is how open they are to the use of the tools, while so many games demand a single solution that might not even make sense on its context, these games actually let you solve the problem, instead of creating artificial barriers.
This "looks intimidating" feeling is actually the same I got while playing through Factorio lately - if you see a late game recipe in there, you see it's made from other advanced things which in turn are also made of more basic components that will, again, have to be assembled, from raw materials. But I found that building the factories by way of iterating through these steps made it very easy. I do wonder if that's a good strategy for Infinifactory too!
So my question is: Can you actually take solutions or at least parts of them from early levels and implement them later, like building bricks, in Infinifactory?
You'll devise certain techniques and patterns which can be replicated in other levels to solve similar problems, yeah. In SpaceChem you also get the ability to save certain configurations so you can paste them directly into later levels.
I played infinifactory before knowing that this was Zachtronics's genre of choice, and it remains one of my favorite puzzle games ever. It didn't need to have a fun creative story in addition to the incredibly well thought-out puzzles but it does, and it only adds to the incentive to keep going and keep trying. You mentioned in your spacechem video that half the fun of these games is going back and watching your completed solutions just run perfectly, and I totally did that too with my more complicated factories. Infinifactory is definitely the best choice for someone who might be put off by spacechem or opus magnum for their stripped-down presentation, since it's more colorful and appealing visually and eases you into the problem-solving mechanics of zachtronics games while still feeling a bit more like a traditional story-driven game.
Opus Magnum is my favorite Zachtronics game. Great for beginners to their type of crazy puzzle game!
I was disappointed when I realized that a big chunk of the video is taken up by the tutorial I've already completed, but the announcement of your upcoming videos more than made up for it, good shit dude
I realise this will be boring for anyone who already played it but the goal was to give people a good starting point. The next five videos will be tailored much more towards people like you.
Haha, I just finished Opus Magnum.
I didn't realize it was made by the same dev as SpaceChem. I knew this was a perfect game for me from the moment I started and this explains why.
Human Resource Machine is also really, really good for this sort of thing. It's easier to start and simpler mechanically than TIS-100, but some of the last few levels are definitely on par with what later TIS-100 levels ask you to do.
I'm sure this has been asked a thousand times but are you thinking of making another Zelda video on Breath of the Wild?
Good shit, Matthew.
Decided to play it after having it for weeks in my Lib - thx. Also played a lot of TIS-100 and through Human Resource Machine
What was the marble game you were playing? I haven't seen that one.
I'm not the best at puzzle games and I think it's the frustration factor that keeps me coming back to them. Zachtronics games collectively rank in my top 10 games. I've spent ridiculous amounts of time playing TIS100, Shenzhen IO and ExaPunks since the programming games are my cup of tea. I wholeheartedly encourage anyone who loves puzzle games of these types to pick up the Zachtronics bundle.
I adore these games, but I have a problem with them. I start up the new one to see what it's like, fiddle around for a few hours, go "Yeah, this is just programming", remember that I have a load of stuff I could work on or investigate, and then a) do some programming for fun and profit, or b) load up a game where I shoot/stab something in the face.
Exactly this. I love these games in concept, but coming home from a compsci class and a part time programming job and with programming homework on the horizon doesn't exactly leave me excited to do even more programming.
Well it's not actually programming though and it's more fullfilling with more interesting task than you get at work, where all information are immediately at hand.
For me it's not really the same and these game feel exactly like games instead of programming routine.
In all of these games you are given input and asked to produce output by arranging instructions, that's literally exactly programming. What you may be given at work is one thing, but I could spend my free zachtronics time picking up a new language, working on my own projects, or engaging in real self-contained programming challenges with a real language and I would be doing the same type of problem solving that's just as fulfilling to me as these games are.
I think every puzzle or problem-solving game ever uses the concept of given one input, give me one output
Heck, I might as well say Mario is a programming game because you have the input "position of tiles and sprites", an output "button presses" and an objective "the output must be one that takes Mario to the end of the level without dying before the timer runs out". This is so true that there are Neural Networks algorithms that work exactly like I described, they take the position of everything on the screen and generate button presses that get Mario to the end of the level
Look up "Mar/io" if you haven't seen it
Aye, but playing mario is manually feeding the instructions/button presses in real time, it is not sequencing them in a manner that consistently and repeatedly beats the level. You are not playing mario by building a level-beating machine. You can do this externally of course, but then you are doing your programming .... externally.
You can construe any puzzle as the input and the solution as the output, but in most puzzle games this means you fiddle around until you get the solution and then move on. You are not sequencing your manipulation in a manner that repeatedly solves the puzzle, you are not building a solver.
Spacechem gives you O2 and H2 on input, asks you to build a machine that repeatedly and consistently outputs H2O. Infinifactory gives you fuel tank blocks, engine blocks, nose cone blocks in put, asks you to build a machine that repeatedly and consistently builds rockets. I am not talking about the 'output' as the machine you built, I am talking about the output the machine produces.
All spacechem games (have not played opus magnum yet, but certainly from the looks of it) has means for you to move/position what you received on input, read back what's at a certain position, perform branching execution based on what that is, and a persistent store for the sequence of actions: They are all Turing machines.
Heck yea glad to see you're finally back Mathew. Might be able to get back your audience for reviews now that pudding boy is more focused on his streaming than good content.
Low hanging fruit is irresistible I suppose.
I really appreciate how you've been getting uhh I dunno... more experimental with your recent videos? That walkthrough bit kinda threw me off.
These sorts of puzzle games have never really been to my taste. I remember purchasing Spacechem on your recommendation a few years back, but it's been sitting on my Steam library with 0 hours gathering dust. I'm not sure what it is that often keeps me back, because I actually did play Human Resource Machine which has a similar premise, but I never got far enough to really get my money's worth. There's something that's just inherently dry about puzzle games, even if they have elaborate window dressing.
Anyway, I'm glad you did that little walkthrough, even it was a tiny bit patronizing. Because now I'm going to make an honest effort to really get into Spacechem as soon as I'm finished with the current game I'm on. I hope I can learn to like them.
Hello Ladies and Gentleman... I didn’t realize how much I missed it until I heard it once again
You lead notch to create minecraft
Can you give us the name of the games in the beginning with timestamps in the description or a pinned comment? Interested in some of those aswell
Thx Matt, Opus Magnum is a blast.
8:14 I'm really glad I'm not the only one that binds "use" to middle mouse.
My first Zachtronics game was TIS 100. I had next to no programing knowledge but the manual explain everything well enough so I had no problem playing the game.
I actually bought SpaceChem expecting it to be a puzzle game about chemistry. What I got was the greatest puzzle game of all time.
I'd like to add that while, you actually don't need any knowledge of chemistry, it certainly makes the game more intuitive
Hey, thank you for the recommendation, Matt, you beautiful boy. ❤
I love these games and I'm glad I can now direct my friends someplace to see why they're so good, without sperging at them about it LOL
♥
I'll grab these for sure. I haven't gone too deep into puzzle games. I played Catherine and the witness but as far as puzzle games go that's about it. Everything else has just been puzzles within either rpgs, platformers or what have you, but nothing too hard.
You might also want to check out pleasingfungus.com/Manufactoria/ - a free Flash game that hits some of the same reasoning/problem-solving/secretly-programming notes
When you showed the sausage game, for a moment I thought I'm watching a Joseph Anderson video
Radhinka Bagaskara don’t insult Mathew with that
To this day I feel The Witness did the best job of teaching you the game without a single prompt or on screen text.
Well... Although it is true that The Witness handles it's tutorials very elegently and it is a puzzle game like those Zachtronics games, I would say both expect different things from you as a player. The Witness is more like an open-world linear puzzle game (if that makes any sense) while Zachtronics has a level-based but open solution kind of approach.
What I mean with that is, while The Witness teaches you very slowly to solve all the different puzzles a certain way because in most cases there is only one solution (when there are more solutions, they are very similar to each other so it doesn't matter which you come up with), Zachtronic's games make sure that you know most of your tools first to get to any solution you may think of to reach your goal and it doesn't matter how clever it is. They put another layer on top of it by letting you figuere out different approaches to the same problem. You can make your solution more elegent and therefore better, more efficient (at least in the later games it rates your use of resources like energy, cost of materials or used space), which can be very satisfying on it's own.
This makes both of them distinctively different from each other as puzzle games and that's why I believe the The Witness tutorial can't really work with the Zachtronic games.
I think of it like this: The Witness is building a set-house out of LEGO according to the manual. When you're finished, it lookes nice, you are happy to achieved your goal but in the end you just got the same house as everyone else who bought the set. Zachtronic games are like building something from pieces you already got. If you don't know how to combine them, you won't come very far, but after your brother or parent shows you a few ways to play with them, you can make your very own, individual house with your name on it and you can make it better and better the more time you put in into it.
So you are right when you say the manual explains it a lot better than your relative, but the result in the end is very much worth it in my opinion.