I think I'd change the magic resistance to advantage on all saving throws against charm spells or magical affects. It's a little weaker but feels right to me.
Ok as someone who plays a lot of tieflings in my d&d career I can say that I honestly love these changes and pretty much agreed with what you were saying for them on each feature. Honestly now wanting to convince a future DM to allow me to play as this kind of tiefling
Just in case anyone doesn't know, the reason Tieflings didn't get updated in Monster of the Multiverse is because that book was consolidating previous "expansion" books. As part of the PHB, Tieflings will be updated in 2024 when the new version drops.
Also, making them Fiends directly actually makes some of the prejudice by paladins and clerics more valid (in the sense that the reasons why they are prejudiced, not that the prejudice itself is valid), because they'll show up as fiends to divine sense and detect evil.
I think is a LITTLE OP. So to nerf it a little I would change the "Creature type" feature for: "Half blood: You count as both humanoid AND fiend for the purposes of any spell or ability that targets any of those creature types. Example: You would show up on a paladin divine sense and would recive a bonus on the oathbreaker aura but would still be affected by the spell "Hold Person" or "Reincarnation". Obs: You have advantage saving throws against "Channel divinity: turn the unholy" and is immune to it if you are the one using the feature. " This for me nerfs them a little because some low level abilities and spells target only humanoid targets while giving them even more thematic details like the prejudice and disdain from religion against them as they would appear on a divine sense and get hurt more from divine smites but it still keeps their human part for not being full fiend.
D4, i have spent 2 years balancing homebrew so it is on roughly equal standing with raw dnd, and these changes, as long as you ignore the subraces, are perfectly fine XD
I mean, he’s not far off, this feels kind of nitpicky. If you use 3rd edition lore, Tieflings are humanoids with ancient fiendish ancestry and the devil-like traits randomly emerge through different generations. While not technically a 50% split genetically, their fiendish traits still emerge after many many generations because fiendish blood is so much more powerful than a humanoid’s. Plus, it’s a lot easier to say “half demon” than it is to say “humanoid with an unspecified amount of fiendish ancestry.” Edit: Also, my mistake for using “devil.” Any fiendish creature can create a Tiefling in 3rd edition, and it was only limited to devils in 4th edition when the lore changed to be the result of a pact with a devil.
@@crolithebard4964 Well you still are wrong especially by third edition lore as it's in a third edition book where it's explained that Tieflings are cursed specifically by Asmodues that's why they can be born from none tiefling parents. I'm not trying to be an @$$ here I just feel that they should be changed with the understanding of their origin. This is why I would have given them a fear effect or advantage on intimidation checks coming from tieflings being hated and feared because even common folk in dnd realms know that tieflings are cursed people which would give them an edge in the bully department.
@@codydecoster9131 That is actually primarily a retcon from 4th edition. According to page 20 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book for 3e, Tieflings can be from ANY evil outsider and even 5e makes multiple allusions to this. There are official Tiefling lineages from completely seperate Archdevils than Asmodeus and there’s even a 5e Abyssal version of Tiefling that was released for the Unearthed Aracana “The Old Black Magic.” So no, they are not specifically cursed by Asmodeus even in official 5e, and 3rd edition came up with the interbreeding idea. You’re thinking specifically of 4th edition
If I may interject, I did say, "playing a literal half-demon, basically." I know tieflings have had a complicated history in terms of their species, and my statement of them as "half-demons" is an oversimplification intended to draw attention to the lack of true fiendish qualities that the race receives. We don't really have another race like this in 5e (unless you count mechanically. In which case, Fire Genasi is almost identical), so it'd be nice if it stood out more and better represented what the race means to so many people that play it. That was my intention.
@@deathbyd4 I agree with you about the fire genashi aspect that's why I would rather see the advantage on intimation it leans into how the other races view them and makes them stand out a bit. I also feel like I am being mis understood on what I am trying to say here.
I'll admit, these changes make a lot of sense, given how...lackluster the original is, given their general heritage. I can see these boosts working out rather well in any given campaign, and if any of my players ever wanna consider playing one, I'll refer them here. =D
Devil sight + magic resistance + fire resistance ? This is indeed very powerful and very partial to teifling. IMO, it's like giving more magical items to the teifling player at the table just because you like teiflings. So, this isn't a problem as long as the DM balances other races to. The spellcasting change is good tho.
Good changes in general. Great ideas! I am a sucker for lore and balance though so I would change things a bit. I think Devil sight the best idea here for the tiefling and can really make it unique (if your dm doesnt let you have it nerf it to only exist for the one casting and when you upcast darkness). Magic resistance probably has to go though imo, its a very strong feature.
I really love your channel, you're a great RUclipsr and you make me smile often but there's just one thing I wanted to talk about, Tieflings are not half demon, they're cursed to have the blood of asmodeus in them and I don't know if I spelt it right since I'm half awake right now but regardless, mind you that being isn't a demon nor is he a devil, he is the God of Tyranny and Evil, the Ruler of the 9 Hells of Bator and all devils. The only tiefling that are even a little demon related are the subraces that I think is still in UA known as Abyssal tieflings. What is a half Demon though is a Cambion and if you read the lore for it Cambion are normally made from humans and Succubus/incubus but can be made by any Demon having a kid with another creature. If you read the Cambion lore then you would see not only does it gain what is on its stat block but it also gains all the traits and abilities from both its parents. Imagaine how powerful they would be if they had parents like a Maralith and an Eladrin. In all honesty tieflings could have just been evil aasimars if a hellish contract wasn't included in their creation.
for the subraces, honestly only 2 or 3 of them would be difficult to change since most of their spells follow a similar scaling to base Tiefling with a 1st level at 2nd level and a 2nd level spell. it'd be time consuming but not that difficult to be perfectly frank. Sword Coast's Adventurer's Guide Tieflings however would be best left to retirement so we can safely ignore them I think.
I like this version of the Tiefling. Without it, Yuan-ti make them obsolete. I have a number of Tiefling characters I'd love to use with this variation like a Lore Bard or an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer.
Thank the Gods YES! I love playing Tieflings more into their lore of being outcasts, looked down upon because of the Fiendish heritage when statistically they were basically humans with extra steps I also believe this makes the Tiefling more customizable to
The old lack of devil sight didn't make any sense if you think about it even on a practical and logical sense you can create darkness... but you are blinded as well... why would you do that? For me that is just a way to push them into being warlocks which sucks because even though the warlock is customizable there are limited types of backstory and characters you can play. I can play for example a warlock who's a wizard and constantly maintains a "Disguise self" spell to make them appear human and had to work for their magic rather than just spontaneous manifesting it. I would have a hard time playing a tiefling fighter based on a ronin as they are not accepted anywhere and has to travel to make a living and the prejudice from the people they saved not becoming unbearable. I would have a REALLY hard time making a cleric tiefling that is in a constant inner battle between their devilish ancestry and their faith Not to mention a tiefling that rejected society as much as society rejected them and found friends on animals and became a druid Or any other character other than a tiefling warlock
Like love tiefling, but I think that is just a tad too much power base line. Think it's thematic and cool, but I always thought tieflings more similar to their base race( human, elf, what have you) which is why they weren't as powerful as true fiends.
Honestly, Im a huge tiefling simp but these feels too powerful and is likely to get tieflings banned at many a table. Major power creep. I can’t wait for my tiefling pc to end up stuck in hell because they’re a fiend and fail their save against banishment.
If you wanted to make sure you couldn't give this Teifling race flight you could just make this a sub race, make it like a Hellborn Teifling. Then the new features could be explained as "because you spent so much time in Hell before your body acclimated to the Hellish landscape and gave you these abilities" that way your version could still be strong but wouldn't get wings or unarmed slashing attacks while not ignoring the other subtypes
For the spell you get for this revamped tileng you should add flame blade for their internal legacy trait for some extra fun with fire also add resit nercotic damage for them being born from fiends in all
I do think the Devil's Sight would be nice, but since you're technically still a half fiend, I would just make it so that you can see through your own darkness spell. See shadow sorcerer for wording. That way it's still good, but it's not a power mech of a crutch.
Any chance of getting a pdf or gdoc or something so I don't have to re-type the whole thing? I like and I'm going to offer it to my players as an option for a game I'm starting, hopefully, at the end of August. Dunno if they'll go for it, but it'll be an option.
Just because you asked, I've gone and put together a quick PDF for it, which you can find in the video description. Hope it works for you! I may try and update and formalize it later.
@@deathbyd4 Thanks! Again, I don't know if they'll bite (one of the two regulars plays elves and cat-people, the other mostly plays humans) but my fingers are crossed. If one does, I'll let you know how it goes.
Given the lore of how tieflings came to be, at least from what I know, it would make more sense to give them both racial types of humanoid and fiend. They have fiendish traces in their blood but it’s not very prominent. Also with that I don’t think giving them full on magical resistance, maybe advantage on saving throws against being charmed or even flavor it to being frightened. Overall these changes seem balanced but those two points I don’t really agree with.
I actually did consider the dual-typing of humanoid and fiend for this. However, that largely only imparts negative qualities to a creature in 5e (it was something people learned during the Gothic Lineages UA when they tried to make Humanoid/Undead work). So, unfortunately, I don't think would make for a great option. That said, Magic Resistance could certainly be swapped out for something else though. I'm certain lots of alternatives could be considered too.
Hot take: I don't like Tasha's Guide to Everything nor do I like Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse. The floating ability scores as a default for all non-humans really mechanically devalues humans as a playable race. Only mechanical reason to take a human is if you desperately need a feat at first level for some reason. At least with just Tasha's the rule was effectively optional, but with MotM (and all of the more recent races being released) it is a mechanic that is forced onto every game. And no, I don't want to create custom stats and abilities for all of the new races, that should have been done by WotC. I shouldn't have to put in extra work as a DM to NOT use what was supposed to have been an optional rule.
yeah there's really not much reason to play human. Even if you want a feat you could still get custom lineage from Tasha's and do better, humans also lack the flavor of playing something different
If I were to make any changes to Tieflings, I'd change the lore. I think the base fluff od Tieflings is boring as sin. As such, I'd go back to the original lore of earlier editions where a Tiefling is the result of a Demon/Devil knocking up a mortal. The idea of one of your parents being a Fiend basically writes plothooks, all for the low-low price of literally no extra effort on behalf of the Referee.
I wondered if you've seen anyone also talking about the dragonborn race and DnD for how bad of a character they are as well for not getting a true dragon sense of character if you don't go for the right build on them and that you can't really use every single one of them but only specific types over and over the reason being that it's mostly because of enemies resistance of fire.
I forgot to mention the last part of being a fire how far is later in sessions the DM or in other case puts higher level monsters in tlevel monsters and they have immediately fire resistance
Fizban's Treasury of Dragons did redo the Dragonborn in a pretty decent way, aside also introducing the Metallic and Gem variants. They aren't strictly dragon-like, but do feel like fixed versions from what they were originally aiming for. Take a look, if you haven't. Otherwise, maybe I could consider a more dragon-like take on them in the future.
Power creep being a thing shouldn't justify creeping the PHB races but rather condemnation of the fact that their is a stark gulf between PHB and Multiverse. This is to say nothing of how incredibly bland they made all of the races so as to not offend anyone.
I think I'd change the magic resistance to advantage on all saving throws against charm spells or magical affects. It's a little weaker but feels right to me.
Ok as someone who plays a lot of tieflings in my d&d career I can say that I honestly love these changes and pretty much agreed with what you were saying for them on each feature. Honestly now wanting to convince a future DM to allow me to play as this kind of tiefling
Just in case anyone doesn't know, the reason Tieflings didn't get updated in Monster of the Multiverse is because that book was consolidating previous "expansion" books. As part of the PHB, Tieflings will be updated in 2024 when the new version drops.
Also, making them Fiends directly actually makes some of the prejudice by paladins and clerics more valid (in the sense that the reasons why they are prejudiced, not that the prejudice itself is valid), because they'll show up as fiends to divine sense and detect evil.
I think is a LITTLE OP. So to nerf it a little I would change the "Creature type" feature for: "Half blood: You count as both humanoid AND fiend for the purposes of any spell or ability that targets any of those creature types. Example: You would show up on a paladin divine sense and would recive a bonus on the oathbreaker aura but would still be affected by the spell "Hold Person" or "Reincarnation". Obs: You have advantage saving throws against "Channel divinity: turn the unholy" and is immune to it if you are the one using the feature. "
This for me nerfs them a little because some low level abilities and spells target only humanoid targets while giving them even more thematic details like the prejudice and disdain from religion against them as they would appear on a divine sense and get hurt more from divine smites but it still keeps their human part for not being full fiend.
D4, i have spent 2 years balancing homebrew so it is on roughly equal standing with raw dnd, and these changes, as long as you ignore the subraces, are perfectly fine XD
@0:38 You: "You don't get much for playing a literal half demon."
Me: "Oh sweet summer child you don't have any idea what a tiefling is do you?"
I mean, he’s not far off, this feels kind of nitpicky. If you use 3rd edition lore, Tieflings are humanoids with ancient fiendish ancestry and the devil-like traits randomly emerge through different generations. While not technically a 50% split genetically, their fiendish traits still emerge after many many generations because fiendish blood is so much more powerful than a humanoid’s. Plus, it’s a lot easier to say “half demon” than it is to say “humanoid with an unspecified amount of fiendish ancestry.”
Edit: Also, my mistake for using “devil.” Any fiendish creature can create a Tiefling in 3rd edition, and it was only limited to devils in 4th edition when the lore changed to be the result of a pact with a devil.
@@crolithebard4964 Well you still are wrong especially by third edition lore as it's in a third edition book where it's explained that Tieflings are cursed specifically by Asmodues that's why they can be born from none tiefling parents. I'm not trying to be an @$$ here I just feel that they should be changed with the understanding of their origin. This is why I would have given them a fear effect or advantage on intimidation checks coming from tieflings being hated and feared because even common folk in dnd realms know that tieflings are cursed people which would give them an edge in the bully department.
@@codydecoster9131 That is actually primarily a retcon from 4th edition. According to page 20 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book for 3e, Tieflings can be from ANY evil outsider and even 5e makes multiple allusions to this. There are official Tiefling lineages from completely seperate Archdevils than Asmodeus and there’s even a 5e Abyssal version of Tiefling that was released for the Unearthed Aracana “The Old Black Magic.” So no, they are not specifically cursed by Asmodeus even in official 5e, and 3rd edition came up with the interbreeding idea. You’re thinking specifically of 4th edition
If I may interject, I did say, "playing a literal half-demon, basically." I know tieflings have had a complicated history in terms of their species, and my statement of them as "half-demons" is an oversimplification intended to draw attention to the lack of true fiendish qualities that the race receives. We don't really have another race like this in 5e (unless you count mechanically. In which case, Fire Genasi is almost identical), so it'd be nice if it stood out more and better represented what the race means to so many people that play it. That was my intention.
@@deathbyd4 I agree with you about the fire genashi aspect that's why I would rather see the advantage on intimation it leans into how the other races view them and makes them stand out a bit. I also feel like I am being mis understood on what I am trying to say here.
I'll admit, these changes make a lot of sense, given how...lackluster the original is, given their general heritage. I can see these boosts working out rather well in any given campaign, and if any of my players ever wanna consider playing one, I'll refer them here. =D
Devil sight + magic resistance + fire resistance ? This is indeed very powerful and very partial to teifling. IMO, it's like giving more magical items to the teifling player at the table just because you like teiflings. So, this isn't a problem as long as the DM balances other races to.
The spellcasting change is good tho.
Good changes in general. Great ideas!
I am a sucker for lore and balance though so I would change things a bit.
I think Devil sight the best idea here for the tiefling and can really make it unique (if your dm doesnt let you have it nerf it to only exist for the one casting and when you upcast darkness).
Magic resistance probably has to go though imo, its a very strong feature.
I really love your channel, you're a great RUclipsr and you make me smile often but there's just one thing I wanted to talk about, Tieflings are not half demon, they're cursed to have the blood of asmodeus in them and I don't know if I spelt it right since I'm half awake right now but regardless, mind you that being isn't a demon nor is he a devil, he is the God of Tyranny and Evil, the Ruler of the 9 Hells of Bator and all devils. The only tiefling that are even a little demon related are the subraces that I think is still in UA known as Abyssal tieflings.
What is a half Demon though is a Cambion and if you read the lore for it Cambion are normally made from humans and Succubus/incubus but can be made by any Demon having a kid with another creature. If you read the Cambion lore then you would see not only does it gain what is on its stat block but it also gains all the traits and abilities from both its parents. Imagaine how powerful they would be if they had parents like a Maralith and an Eladrin. In all honesty tieflings could have just been evil aasimars if a hellish contract wasn't included in their creation.
for the subraces, honestly only 2 or 3 of them would be difficult to change since most of their spells follow a similar scaling to base Tiefling with a 1st level at 2nd level and a 2nd level spell. it'd be time consuming but not that difficult to be perfectly frank. Sword Coast's Adventurer's Guide Tieflings however would be best left to retirement so we can safely ignore them I think.
Those changes are amazing! Mind if I use them at my table as well?
(With proper credit, ofc, edited that in for good measure)
Of course! You can find a PDF copy of my tiefling in the video description.
I would totally play that tiefling in a online game with you
I like this version of the Tiefling. Without it, Yuan-ti make them obsolete. I have a number of Tiefling characters I'd love to use with this variation like a Lore Bard or an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer.
To balance out the magic resistance I would make that resistance the same as whatever they take for their infernal legacy.
Thank the Gods YES! I love playing Tieflings more into their lore of being outcasts, looked down upon because of the Fiendish heritage when statistically they were basically humans with extra steps I also believe this makes the Tiefling more customizable to
The old lack of devil sight didn't make any sense
if you think about it even on a practical and logical sense you can create darkness... but you are blinded as well... why would you do that? For me that is just a way to push them into being warlocks which sucks because even though the warlock is customizable there are limited types of backstory and characters you can play.
I can play for example a warlock who's a wizard and constantly maintains a "Disguise self" spell to make them appear human and had to work for their magic rather than just spontaneous manifesting it.
I would have a hard time playing a tiefling fighter based on a ronin as they are not accepted anywhere and has to travel to make a living and the prejudice from the people they saved not becoming unbearable.
I would have a REALLY hard time making a cleric tiefling that is in a constant inner battle between their devilish ancestry and their faith
Not to mention a tiefling that rejected society as much as society rejected them and found friends on animals and became a druid
Or any other character other than a tiefling warlock
Like love tiefling, but I think that is just a tad too much power base line. Think it's thematic and cool, but I always thought tieflings more similar to their base race( human, elf, what have you) which is why they weren't as powerful as true fiends.
Honestly, Im a huge tiefling simp but these feels too powerful and is likely to get tieflings banned at many a table. Major power creep.
I can’t wait for my tiefling pc to end up stuck in hell because they’re a fiend and fail their save against banishment.
If you wanted to make sure you couldn't give this Teifling race flight you could just make this a sub race, make it like a Hellborn Teifling. Then the new features could be explained as "because you spent so much time in Hell before your body acclimated to the Hellish landscape and gave you these abilities" that way your version could still be strong but wouldn't get wings or unarmed slashing attacks while not ignoring the other subtypes
im a tiefling main and im a fan of this change
For the spell you get for this revamped tileng you should add flame blade for their internal legacy trait for some extra fun with fire also add resit nercotic damage for them being born from fiends in all
Great video nun the less keep up the great work
As I said in the server, buff the weaker, not nerf the stronger
I do think the Devil's Sight would be nice, but since you're technically still a half fiend, I would just make it so that you can see through your own darkness spell. See shadow sorcerer for wording. That way it's still good, but it's not a power mech of a crutch.
I'd take this with ought magic resistance, that feels like a bit much.
Any chance of getting a pdf or gdoc or something so I don't have to re-type the whole thing? I like and I'm going to offer it to my players as an option for a game I'm starting, hopefully, at the end of August. Dunno if they'll go for it, but it'll be an option.
Just because you asked, I've gone and put together a quick PDF for it, which you can find in the video description. Hope it works for you! I may try and update and formalize it later.
@@deathbyd4 Thanks! Again, I don't know if they'll bite (one of the two regulars plays elves and cat-people, the other mostly plays humans) but my fingers are crossed. If one does, I'll let you know how it goes.
I want this tiefling
Tiefling is good but it can be better
Kozaiyans are similar to tieflings
Blasphemy! 🤣
Given the lore of how tieflings came to be, at least from what I know, it would make more sense to give them both racial types of humanoid and fiend. They have fiendish traces in their blood but it’s not very prominent. Also with that I don’t think giving them full on magical resistance, maybe advantage on saving throws against being charmed or even flavor it to being frightened. Overall these changes seem balanced but those two points I don’t really agree with.
I actually did consider the dual-typing of humanoid and fiend for this. However, that largely only imparts negative qualities to a creature in 5e (it was something people learned during the Gothic Lineages UA when they tried to make Humanoid/Undead work). So, unfortunately, I don't think would make for a great option. That said, Magic Resistance could certainly be swapped out for something else though. I'm certain lots of alternatives could be considered too.
Been missing your post man?
Hot take: I don't like Tasha's Guide to Everything nor do I like Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse. The floating ability scores as a default for all non-humans really mechanically devalues humans as a playable race. Only mechanical reason to take a human is if you desperately need a feat at first level for some reason. At least with just Tasha's the rule was effectively optional, but with MotM (and all of the more recent races being released) it is a mechanic that is forced onto every game. And no, I don't want to create custom stats and abilities for all of the new races, that should have been done by WotC. I shouldn't have to put in extra work as a DM to NOT use what was supposed to have been an optional rule.
yeah there's really not much reason to play human. Even if you want a feat you could still get custom lineage from Tasha's and do better, humans also lack the flavor of playing something different
I'll use it.... Yeah, this is agreeable.
Great vid!!!
If I were to make any changes to Tieflings, I'd change the lore. I think the base fluff od Tieflings is boring as sin.
As such, I'd go back to the original lore of earlier editions where a Tiefling is the result of a Demon/Devil knocking up a mortal.
The idea of one of your parents being a Fiend basically writes plothooks, all for the low-low price of literally no extra effort on behalf of the Referee.
I wondered if you've seen anyone also talking about the dragonborn race and DnD for how bad of a character they are as well for not getting a true dragon sense of character if you don't go for the right build on them and that you can't really use every single one of them but only specific types over and over the reason being that it's mostly because of enemies resistance of fire.
I forgot to mention the last part of being a fire how far is later in sessions the DM or in other case puts higher level monsters in tlevel monsters and they have immediately fire resistance
hey, this is pretty cool.
now do it to dragonborns, please i beg you...
Fizban's Treasury of Dragons did redo the Dragonborn in a pretty decent way, aside also introducing the Metallic and Gem variants. They aren't strictly dragon-like, but do feel like fixed versions from what they were originally aiming for. Take a look, if you haven't. Otherwise, maybe I could consider a more dragon-like take on them in the future.
Power creep being a thing shouldn't justify creeping the PHB races but rather condemnation of the fact that their is a stark gulf between PHB and Multiverse.
This is to say nothing of how incredibly bland they made all of the races so as to not offend anyone.