Yeah, I remember when I was the only guy at my RC club flying electric. All the old guys poo poohing it, no power, no endurance, and on and on. Now go to any club and 80% of the models are electric. Plenty of power, plenty of endurance. My how things change
News Flash! There is a world wide recall on the Flux Capacitors. 86 users have gone missing. They have been believed to be sent to the Land of the Lost by the defective Flux Capacitors. Sleestak's are holding them hostage.
Strangely I see the Pipistrel as a pilot's plane. Lots of private pilots do so little flying that an hour a week would be thought excessive. With the Pipistrel that hour could be solar powered. Remember that the Wright brothers first few flights were measured in feet of distance -things have changed since then, things will change with electric flight also.
They laughed at my dad when he was one of the first to fly nicad powered RC large scale planes he built with hedge trimmer motors, on the field. I wish he were alive to see this. This was his dream! They use to call him “mr. Electric”. That was about 30 years ago.
I have flown electric model aircraft since the late 80s.The current technology is light years better than when we started.The advantage is less noise ,less pollution and far better reliability.Engine failure is a thing of the past,unless the battery is run dry.The battery technology is still improving and a 3 hour duration isn't far away.
28 years ago I bought an electric-powered RC glider (Kyosho Stratus) which was powered by a large nicad battery pack and a hefty brushed motor. It would take about 3 minutes to get to altitude, had a poor gliding performance due to the overweight power system and had juice in the battery for two, perhaps three climbs per charge. So the total flying time on a fresh battery pack, climbs and gliding included, was about 25 minutes. And then, a few years back, I changed the glider's motor to brushless, and the battery pack to lithium. The model is some 500g (about one pound) lighter, has an enormous amount of power and climbs to altitude almost vertically, in about 30 seconds. And once there, will soar power-off just about forever. So a fresh lithium battery will provide a whole afternoon of on-and-off flying at the field, on a single charge. What a change. And I still do fly with that 28-year old sailplane.
Of course everyone has 480 3 phase voltage available to them Which by the way is a special requirement for the power company to install that electricity to your particular business location and that is not cheap
a lot less power than is being installed for electric car chargers all over the place- plus while it will take longer you could use 240v which everyone has
Oh man this is awesome. Andy is practically my future boss lol I got my PPG at Right Rudder Aviation flying the Pipistrel Alpha Trainer and now I’m working on my Commercial Glider as well regular PPL. Looking to be a CFI at his school eventually. I’m a huge follower of your channel and it’s just so cool to actually see you talking to him in person and about the Pipistrel aircraft.
Lotta critics in the comments. The aim is to make this a way better trainer than these ancient aircraft we're flying around these days. Does the Pipistrel replace a 152? Nah. Doesn't have the same legs. But that's not the right question to ask. Can the Pipistrel augment a 152 for landing practice? Sure! For maneuvers? Definitely! For a barely-over 50nm XC? Yeah! For taxi practice? Oh hell yes. Generally a PPL takes 55 hours and costs $10K. Using this instead of a 152 for 20 hours could definitely save a student a grand at least... not to mention you can bet your ass the EPA and local government will give grants to you for reducing carbon, reducing lead, and improving noise abatement. And the last time I saw Pipistrel, they had the ability to swap out fully charged batteries without charging them attached to the plane. Hopefully I'm not misremembering and that's still a thing. This is also early stuff and from a small company. Ten years from now and/or when bigger corporations start getting in on this, you can expect it to get even better.
The problem is that this aircraft is also insanely expensive to buy and operate when compared to the ICE version of the same aircraft, so it just doesn't make sense from any angle.
And you charge it with Coal, Hydro, NatGas, Nuclear, maybe wind or solar if that is available in your area…. So get off your “Al Gwhore” I’m saving the world mentality!
It's green-washing: thousands or millions of dollars down the toilet on a dream of avoiding pumping oil and favoring landscape-destroying strip mining operations in developing countries. There's still too much waste in the equation!
listen close and you'll hear JB speak to the issue of the "cooling loop" and "temperature control". not that it isn't effected (to a degree) but ultimately the pack live in it's own environment SEPARATE from ambient conditions.
@@phillyphil1513 To a point, but eventually ambient temps WILL creep in. It's unavoidable, especially when it's designed as a cooling system. It can work in reverse, too, when not in use. On winter days I'd wager you'd be on a 15 minute flight, if you're lucky. Same in Phoenix in July.
@@SmittySmithsonite Typically, lithium batteries like these are quite effective at heating themselves up. At startup they can be down on power. Some cars have a heat pump that can bring the batteries to an appropriate temperature.
This will mesitate all verbal instruction and briefing be done on the ground . During my primary training my average flight time was 2 hours , that is more than double with this aircraft is capable of . Those removable quick detached Wings glider style as you mentioned are necessary because this plane will spend more time on the trailer than it does in the air . A student will be forced to use a different type just to do the required short and long cross country portions of her or his private certificate. I don't think it's possible to complete your first check ride in a single flight using this plane. My first solo flight in a glider was 2 hours and 40 minutes .
Cool story bro. Any way. Your carbourated Continental flat six breaks for (literally) no good reason and you stall right after takeoff. Meanwhile, this thing takes off without flaps and will work over and over with zero maintenance. Battery technology improves year over year. Piston Airplane engines are a *#%$ disgrace - their technology is stuck in 1950.
@@rickrudd they don't like the cold, they don't like the heat and if they decide to thermal run away and catch fire that's another story. They have their place it's just not a drop in replacement.
I wonder if the motor coach he's staying 🤔 in is electric powered ? Remind me again how futuristic battery technology is. What's going to happen to everything green when we are forced to go green 🤔 Don't plants need bad stuff to make good stuff ?
700lbs dry is RIDICULOUS. The battery on my 2017 Bolt EV is 990lbs by itself. I imagine, the batteries are pretty small comparatively in this aircraft. It is gorgeous!
@@wookster789 I would imagine the motor and inverter operate at variable frequencies of some hundreds of Hz to keep the weight and the iron losses down. And inverters are very efficient these days.
50 minutes of continuous flight? I've heard flight training per day is relatively 2hrs per day.. ...50 minutes doesn't sound adequate time tho in my opinion
Got about four hours in one of these for my PPL, I just wish the endurance was good enough :) I had to do rest of my flying in Pipstreal Alpha which is dino burning sister of this bird.
$140k pre-COVID, so probably closer to $200 in todays money I'd guess. I suspect the real number is probably negotiable if you're a flight school and order a dozen of these and the accompanying chargers.
I heard recently where one of the big name boat motor makers announced a new all electric engine. I want to say it was Mercury but I maybe wrong. Also I watched a video not long ago of Los Angeles Fire talking about their new electric fire truck.
Comprehensive info on charging here - www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/alpha-electro-successfully-charged-together-with-a-tesla-and-a-zero-motorcycle-archive/
It's great to see electric planes become reality. There are some roles that current battery tech can already fulfill - such as self-launching gliders and trainers - and Pipistrel has pioneered both! But I must point out it'll be a long, long time before long-haul flights will be electric. The jet fuel needed already comes in at one third of the takeoff weight, and battery tech has over an order of magnitude worse energy density - even factoring in the higher efficiency of electric propulsion. Hopefully some clean solution will come along to bridge that gap. Until then, maybe we'll see electric-assisted take-off and go-around, to reduce noise.
@Mark The oxygen IC engines require comes free from the atmosphere and corresponds to about 4 times the fuel weight. Batteries, roughly speaking must carry at least that more weight along. With today's technology its about 13 times more, and additionally no fuel weight is being reduced along the trip. Recall the Breguet range equation: R = L/D ÷ sfc × ln(1 + Wf ÷ We) L/D.....lift to drag ratio sfc.....specific fuel consumption lbs/hp hour ~ 0.45 for properly leaned piston engines Wf.....fuel weight We.....aircraft zero fuel weight + reserves. ln.....natural log hp...horsepower: 550 ft lbs / sec hour: 3600 sec (trivial) Nm : 6072 ft ~ carefull evaluation of the units of the inverse sfc units gives range in Nm, or km if metric equivalent is converted.
It’s a trainer. Probably never leave the traffic pattern. Practice takeoffs and landings only, most likely. If not, hold my beer! 😜 Does it have a BRS?
Your flight time is 15 minutes, since you’re supposed to keep a 45 minute reserve on your aircraft you only get 15 minutes of flight that’s barely once around the pattern
30 min reserve for day VFR in the US. Over in Europe, pipistrel had negotiated to have it lowered to 15 (I think). However, If you look at their website it says "50 min + reserve". That tells me it's 50 min of legal flying time.
Hey the first powered flight lasted 200ft. Atleast the first certified electrically powered flight can last nearly an hour. Sceptics will always be there to critique but pioneers do end up changing the future. Go Pipistrel
I like your optimism. Its gonna need another couple of revolutions in battery tech to get where we need to be. I suspect while thats being worked on, something else will appear instead..
@@MrRugbylane Considering a Lucid Air has a range of 500 miles and Long Range Model S is a bit over 400 miles, I’d say we’re very close to being there. 4680 cells from Tesla carry more energy than traditional 2170, so we’re even closer. Now it comes down to packaging and of course, cost. I can see 2 hours flight time in a couple of years. Remember, this is a trainer, not a cross country unit.
@@alexnutcasio936 Car range does not equate to aircraft range. Many light aircraft can fly for over 1,000 miles, some at over 200 mph. Try taking an electric car up to 200 miles an hour, see how far it goes.
Some improvements are there, for example a more efficient electric motor, compared to the induction motor used now. Tesla's variable reluctance motor, with no losses in the rotor.
It just takes too much energy to fly for this to be practical anytime soon. So a few things they didn't mention, what's the useful load? What TAS can it cruise at? How much does it cost? If you stich those 3 categories together this thing is Miles behind a normal plane. A normal plane can burns fuel and therefore sheds weight as it flies, this thing will never catch up.
Good point. As a gas powered plane uses up its fuel the engine keeps the same performance with a lighter load...with an electric the engine can only lose performance while still carrying the same load it took off with.
@@rdawgz866 Upfront cost of a 2-seat trainer means nothing for a flight school, it's all about operating cost and electric aircraft cost only a few dollars an hour to operate.
@@maurice_walker what kind of reserves? Is the bms setup so the battery doesn't charge to 100% and can handle some cell degradation before actually losing flight time?
Agreed. IMO it's good only for traffic pattern work, or very short flights around the home airport - and then, just. I'd not venture a 30min hop from one airport to the next, in a 50-minute endurance airplane. What if for some reason the runway is closed when you get there? No coming back. For that matter... what if you're on your home airport doing touch and goes, and for some reason the runway closes? No range to go elsewhere? As it stands... thanks, but no, thanks. Cool concept, cool demonstrator airplane, but batteries still need improvement before this is safe or practical.
It probably would be quiet. I'm wondering what frequencies the inverter runs at. Usually rotary electrical machinery on aircraft runs at 400 Hz (for synchronous operation) because there's less weight in higher frequency machines than the ground-based 50 or 60 Hz equipment. But this motor would need to run at variable speeds so the inverter would need to be a variable speed inverter, running at the hundreds of Hz range to keep the weight down.
People are pointing out a lot of the shortcomings of this 1st gen/1st attempt, and they're right. This can not completely replace the beater 172s that are the mainstay of early training. But for a 1st attempt, it's not far off to be useful for parts of initial training.
I don't know how much this costs, but I'm guessing at the very least $100,000 for something that can make 3 maybe 4 trips around the pattern before it has to sit on the ramp for at least a half hour for a full recharge. This airplane has such little use other than the first few hours of your training then you'll have to jump into a Skyhawk anyway to finish out the training and be behind the learning curve on gas engine management. That's a lot of expense just to learn pattern work with a couple of touch and go's.
Fascinating. Pretty cool. Found myself wondering how you charge the charger? Maybe plug it in when you get home? I'm a supporter of solar technology in general, alternative energy. We just have to figure out better ways to make it all work - Good luck to him. Thanks for sharing.
@@leeroyholloway4277 Blah blah blah blah blah we don’t want to hear that I got fingers in my ears I’m not listening blah blah blah blah it’s all good for the environment Al Gore says so all the Democrats say so!!
Wow not bad, they're up and coming, 50 minutes now could easily be an hour and a half 2 years from now. Then for flight training purposes we'll really be talking. Very fun to see, thanks for sharing Juan!
Battery tech doesn't move that fast. I've been flying electric models for over 20 years. Once we started using lithium, flight times haven't really improved much since. We can pull more amps now, but even that comes with a weight penalty. 50 min now might be 60 in a couple years.
re: "50 minutes now could easily be an hour and a half 2 years from now" well no, it probably won't. that's just the "Myth of Progress" talking. #MYTHOFPROGRESS people with no understanding or reference for History will not be aware that the first battery (ie, "voltaic pile") was created all the way back in 1800, and the first Lion battery created back in 1980, so what that means is over 220 years and 40 years respectively were needed just to get to THIS point. ref: "Those who don't know History are DOOMED to repeat it..." - George Santayana (1863-1952)
Certainly one can expect the battery technology to track that for electric cars. There are plenty of naysayers (no doubt with jobs or their pension funds somehow wedded to society's continued consumption of oil), but I guess we'll see ...
Once these Aircraft get approved in the US how much will it save a student pilot getting his private pilot ticket? So I have heard it currently cost between $7K to $10K for a PPL.
They wouldn't save any money, at all. This aircraft is significantly more expensive than the ICE powered aircraft that it's based on, plus it requires the batteries to be replaced more than twice as often as the engine needs to be rebuilt in the ICE aircraft, and the batteries are far more expensive. This aircraft makes absolutely no sense, for any purpose.
It'll probably see a lot more service in Europe and countries where there is less resistance to adopting electric vehicles. I can't see USA taking it up in a hurry unless the price of AvGas goes through the roof.
$20,000 in batteries alone, and they need replacing every 2000 hours? Ouch. That compact 80-HP electric motor right behind the prop is a thing of beauty, though. It's a shame we still have a long way to go in making batteries more affordable and faster to charge, hopefully lighter and longer-lasting too.
80 mph and 50 minutes? That’s about 30 miles unless you aren’t planning on returning. Won’t need an emergency locator beacon or navigation equipment. 😀
It's like the Piper Pilot 100i, it's only meant to be used by flight schools. This one is specifically meant for pattern work. You may be lucky to get a .7 in your logbook per flight, but it'll only cost you about what a .3 would in a 172.
@@peteranderson037 "but it'll only cost you about what a .3 would in a 172" not after the flight school realizes it has to swap the batteries it won't :P
2 hours plus reserve would make a game changer for IFR instruction. Streamlined battery pods hung on each wing, quickly exchanged, should work, air cooled of course, no complicated water heat exchanger. Battery weight , carried directly by the wing where it reduces structural weight on the fuselage. Since landings and take off are near 1 g load factor , the landing gear load structure to the wings is probably unaltered.
@@GuardedDragon And they don't have to fill it with fuel. Electricity is significantly cheaper in almost all places. Those batteries are just a different way of paying for fuel.
Love your "Gilligan" hat JB. Btw, re: the electric airplane is it possible to add an alternater that "could" charge the batteries while flying, or would the additional device and probably belt involved cause additional drag on the electric motor reducing the performance? 2nd question is, if the wings had solar panels, would it be possible to charge the batteries? Take care and fly safe. 🖖🏼🤟🏼
Current solar panels are much too heavy. This plane does have a sort of regenerative braking that uses the prop to recharge the battery when the pilot wants to slow more. He discusses it briefly in the video. An electric motor can typically be turned into a generator or alternator by turning the shaft.
Do we understand the cost to install 3 phase into a building not to mention the power comes from the grid and the amount of energy it takes to mine all the materials.
@@jimbo44cc13 I think he's referring to the cost of installing 3-phase power at a hangar. Apparently many parts of the USA where hangars are located don't have 3-phase power ... I can say for certain, as I'm not from the USA. But where the comment is a bit lopsided is this: what is the amount of energy required to mine all the materials for an ICE, and the oil to provide it? And what is the cost of maintaining the military activities required to safeguard that oil supply (think Invasion Of Iraq, for instance). Another lopsided comment I've seen repeated here a lot is "$20k per battery pack every 2,000 hours" but the same people *don't* dare mention the cost of overhauling an ICE during that number of hours. I'm curious as to why these commenters don't they want to mention that as well? I get the impression that many people in the USA have their incomes somehow wedded to society's ongoing consumption of oil. They also claim the economy will crash, but aren't able to see how as one part of the oil-related economy closes another part of the green economy opens. As I say to the kids, you're about to witness one of the biggest transformations in our society in the last 100 years. The last one was the conversion of horse and steam-drawn transport to oil-fired transport (and the economy didn't crash due to that), and you'll get to see the next one which is from oil-fired to electric transport.
Interesting, but what's the sense in having a charger that can't be carried on-board? Not to mention the LIPO lifespan. It's a green-wash. Like Tesla, you'll have to license the "features" and won't own the aircraft. NTL, interesting idea and 'props' to them for coming up with their own solution on the electrical solution.
Did we watch the same video? I'm sure he said the charger *isn't* carried onboard, it's provided so that it can be taken in a vehicle - the same one which tows the trailer on which the aircraft is mounted. I'm sure he also said there are fixed chargers similar to Tesla chargers which can be installed in hangars, etc.
Lithium ion battery fires in vehicles are far fewer by percentage of miles driven than internal combustion engines. I suspect the same will be true of airplanes. Sitting on top of explosive AVgas just becomes normal after awhile, but is far more dangerous than lithium ion batteries.
@@GoCoyote I serious doubt your stats. Aside from collisions, there are few spontaneous auto fires from the ICE. You’d have to prove to me with your source to convince me. And an ICE in a plane rarely has an airborne fire related to the power plants. There is a reason you can only ship lithium batteries via ground.
@@bw162 Here's one study being cited: Research by another firm, AutoinsuranceEZ, says battery electric vehicles have just a .03% chance of igniting, compared to internal combustion engine vehicle's 1.5% chance. Hybrid electrics, which have both a high voltage battery and an internal combustion engine, have a 3.4% likelihood of vehicle fires according to their study.
@@markmiller3279 “We obviously don't know what will happen in 20 years when we've got electric vehicles that are 20 years old, and have been through 100 potholes and have a lot more wear and tear," Sutcliffe said. "We don't know what that will look like."…”EV car fires burn hotter and for a longer period of time. In gas cars there’s usually a single reaction, like a spark in a puddle of gasoline, that leads to the fire and that reaction eventually burns down. When an EV’s lithium-ion battery ignites the battery burns the energy stored inside, becoming the fire’s main source of energy”. All fires are not the same. In aviation, you must look at the consequences. Like I said but you didn’t hear, you can’t transport lithium batteries via air. They must go via ground. Gee, I wonder why?
Two thousand hours seems incredibly optimistic to me... That would be like ~2,500 charge cycles. A Tesla is only rated for 1,500 cycles. Flight schools are going to fly these on full discharge/charge cycles.
@@cup_and_cone This is not actually using all of the available power, as they also allow for a safety margin that when unused, increases the battery life. While batteries are rated for full charge and discharge at their C rate, any cycles that charge at a lower rate, or any discharges at a lower rate, and any cycles that do not use the full capacity greatly increase cycle life. Tesla is also going for the cheapest batteries it can get that meet its needs, while airplanes need the most expensive batteries.
How much does 2,000 hours of AvGas cost, out of interest? I'd like to compare some apples with apples. So also chuck in the cost of any servicing of the ICE engine in the "traditional" airplane.
Volocopter, not even a half hour flight endurance; too many (18) small rotors operating at low Reynolds number with poor efficiency Parasitic power of a rotor is according to McCormick: Pp = 3/4 × Lift × tipspeed × Cd/Cl at low Re, Clmax is low and Cd is way high.
Good for Training very close to the FBO. Now the student will have to learn to also fly gas powered plane to compete his cross countries. Adds to the cost of learning. In all honesty I think is electric plane is nice but most FBOs geared for students are barely making it with 30-40 year old Cessnas/pipers. I doubt if they will spring for an electric plane with limited use.
It’s funny to think aircraft are taking on the the power and propulsion systems we have been using in electric RC aircraft. Makes me smile.
Yeah, I remember when I was the only guy at my RC club flying electric. All the old guys poo poohing it, no power, no endurance, and on and on. Now go to any club and 80% of the models are electric. Plenty of power, plenty of endurance. My how things change
If you fly into a thunderstorm At 88 knots and get a lightning strike, you can time travel as a bonus feature!
😂🤣😂 You WIN this comments section!! 😂🤣😂
😂😂😂
News Flash! There is a world wide recall on the Flux Capacitors. 86 users have gone missing. They have been believed to be sent to the Land of the Lost by the defective Flux Capacitors. Sleestak's are holding them hostage.
Exactly @dan farris
That’s how they get an air-to-air refueling.
Strangely I see the Pipistrel as a pilot's plane. Lots of private pilots do so little flying that an hour a week would be thought excessive. With the Pipistrel that hour could be solar powered.
Remember that the Wright brothers first few flights were measured in feet of distance -things have changed since then, things will change with electric flight also.
We have one at a flying school in Perth Western Australia.
Pipistrelle makes awesome aircraft. Good report. Hope to see examples in Michigan soon.
They laughed at my dad when he was one of the first to fly nicad powered RC large scale planes he built with hedge trimmer motors, on the field. I wish he were alive to see this. This was his dream! They use to call him “mr. Electric”. That was about 30 years ago.
I have flown electric model aircraft since the late 80s.The current technology is light years better than when we started.The advantage is less noise ,less pollution and far better reliability.Engine failure is a thing of the past,unless the battery is run dry.The battery technology is still improving and a 3 hour duration isn't far away.
Haha in our RC club, there isn't a single combustion engine left.
28 years ago I bought an electric-powered RC glider (Kyosho Stratus) which was powered by a large nicad battery pack and a hefty brushed motor. It would take about 3 minutes to get to altitude, had a poor gliding performance due to the overweight power system and had juice in the battery for two, perhaps three climbs per charge. So the total flying time on a fresh battery pack, climbs and gliding included, was about 25 minutes.
And then, a few years back, I changed the glider's motor to brushless, and the battery pack to lithium. The model is some 500g (about one pound) lighter, has an enormous amount of power and climbs to altitude almost vertically, in about 30 seconds. And once there, will soar power-off just about forever. So a fresh lithium battery will provide a whole afternoon of on-and-off flying at the field, on a single charge. What a change.
And I still do fly with that 28-year old sailplane.
We have come a VERY long way from 1980, when I started flying electric with nicads!
Its so similar to my electric RC planes, lol. Brushless and lipo battery. Very cool.😃
Other than the cooling system.
Have a blast for us all Juan! I watched the Air Show via EAA's Livestream today, it was amazing!
With some of the new batteries advancements on the horizon, more capable electric aircraft are getting closer.
Of course everyone has 480 3 phase voltage available to them Which by the way is a special requirement for the power company to install that electricity to your particular business location and that is not cheap
a lot less power than is being installed for electric car chargers all over the place- plus while it will take longer you could use 240v which everyone has
Their website mentions 3-phase 380 volts, not 480. And 380 (actually 400 these days) is what pretty much every shed has in many parts of Europe.
A flight school making the investment is a lot different than Jim Bob trying to get three phase run to his rented hangar. This is for flight schools.
Huge money.... Huge.
You can take 240 3 phase and boost up to 480 3 phase using buck boost transformers.
Oh man this is awesome. Andy is practically my future boss lol I got my PPG at Right Rudder Aviation flying the Pipistrel Alpha Trainer and now I’m working on my Commercial Glider as well regular PPL. Looking to be a CFI at his school eventually.
I’m a huge follower of your channel and it’s just so cool to actually see you talking to him in person and about the Pipistrel aircraft.
You’ll be declaring a fuel emergency on every flight lol
Good practice, at least! 😁
Every time ATC asks you to extend your downwind.
I wonder what plan is for cabin heat in the winter or a high powered flashlight when the landing light goes dim.
Heated seats, heated steering wheel.
Very interesting. Thanks as usual Juan
Lotta critics in the comments. The aim is to make this a way better trainer than these ancient aircraft we're flying around these days. Does the Pipistrel replace a 152? Nah. Doesn't have the same legs. But that's not the right question to ask.
Can the Pipistrel augment a 152 for landing practice? Sure!
For maneuvers? Definitely!
For a barely-over 50nm XC? Yeah!
For taxi practice? Oh hell yes.
Generally a PPL takes 55 hours and costs $10K. Using this instead of a 152 for 20 hours could definitely save a student a grand at least... not to mention you can bet your ass the EPA and local government will give grants to you for reducing carbon, reducing lead, and improving noise abatement.
And the last time I saw Pipistrel, they had the ability to swap out fully charged batteries without charging them attached to the plane. Hopefully I'm not misremembering and that's still a thing.
This is also early stuff and from a small company. Ten years from now and/or when bigger corporations start getting in on this, you can expect it to get even better.
The problem is that this aircraft is also insanely expensive to buy and operate when compared to the ICE version of the same aircraft, so it just doesn't make sense from any angle.
And you charge it with Coal, Hydro, NatGas, Nuclear, maybe wind or solar if that is available in your area…. So get off your “Al Gwhore” I’m saving the world mentality!
It's green-washing: thousands or millions of dollars down the toilet on a dream of avoiding pumping oil and favoring landscape-destroying strip mining operations in developing countries. There's still too much waste in the equation!
@@Showboat_Six all of those energy sources are better than 100LL
@@stephenj4937
Really in what way, every one is impossible without petroleum products…..even your cellphone you are typing on!
A terrific answer to a non-existent problem!!
Noise, usage of engine oil, using three times more energy and tons of maintenance cost for ICE engines is no problem? Really ?
I wonder what effect temperature has on battery performance?
Especially since most American flight schools are all based in the South.
listen close and you'll hear JB speak to the issue of the "cooling loop" and "temperature control". not that it isn't effected (to a degree) but ultimately the pack live in it's own environment SEPARATE from ambient conditions.
@@phillyphil1513 To a point, but eventually ambient temps WILL creep in. It's unavoidable, especially when it's designed as a cooling system. It can work in reverse, too, when not in use. On winter days I'd wager you'd be on a 15 minute flight, if you're lucky. Same in Phoenix in July.
The cooling systems consumes flight time
@@SmittySmithsonite Typically, lithium batteries like these are quite effective at heating themselves up. At startup they can be down on power. Some cars have a heat pump that can bring the batteries to an appropriate temperature.
Thanks Juan
This will mesitate all verbal instruction and briefing be done on the ground . During my primary training my average flight time was 2 hours , that is more than double with this aircraft is capable of . Those removable quick detached Wings glider style as you mentioned are necessary because this plane will spend more time on the trailer than it does in the air . A student will be forced to use a different type just to do the required short and long cross country portions of her or his private certificate. I don't think it's possible to complete your first check ride in a single flight using this plane. My first solo flight in a glider was 2 hours and 40 minutes .
Cool story bro.
Any way. Your carbourated Continental flat six breaks for (literally) no good reason and you stall right after takeoff.
Meanwhile, this thing takes off without flaps and will work over and over with zero maintenance.
Battery technology improves year over year.
Piston Airplane engines are a *#%$ disgrace - their technology is stuck in 1950.
@@rickrudd they don't like the cold, they don't like the heat and if they decide to thermal run away and catch fire that's another story. They have their place it's just not a drop in replacement.
Great video.
I wonder if the motor coach he's staying 🤔 in is electric powered ? Remind me again how futuristic battery technology is. What's going to happen to everything green when we are forced to go green 🤔 Don't plants need bad stuff to make good stuff ?
@@rickrudd Yep, and that 50's technology flat WORKS.
700lbs dry is RIDICULOUS. The battery on my 2017 Bolt EV is 990lbs by itself. I imagine, the batteries are pretty small comparatively in this aircraft. It is gorgeous!
22kWh I think
@@wpfilms2 that is not a lot...that application (motor, BMS, aerodynamics, etc) seem pretty efficient then for 50min of flight time 😀
@@wookster789 exactly!
@@wookster789 I would imagine the motor and inverter operate at variable frequencies of some hundreds of Hz to keep the weight and the iron losses down. And inverters are very efficient these days.
50 minutes of continuous flight? I've heard flight training per day is relatively 2hrs per day.. ...50 minutes doesn't sound adequate time tho in my opinion
Well, if they’re not doing back to back, then 30 minutes is more than sufficient time to recharge for another 50 minutes.
Have to start somewhere! 😃
Shorter run time equals more landing practice.
Read some history about aircraft, or cars .. learn how they started
Got about four hours in one of these for my PPL, I just wish the endurance was good enough :) I had to do rest of my flying in Pipstreal Alpha which is dino burning sister of this bird.
I am hoping that I will find you here at Airventure! Big fan and thankful for your great channel you have going!
Especially nice to have one of these at an airshow. On hot days, just park the nose in your tent and let 'er rip, cool everything down in no time.
Any idea of the cost?
$140k pre-COVID, so probably closer to $200 in todays money I'd guess. I suspect the real number is probably negotiable if you're a flight school and order a dozen of these and the accompanying chargers.
@@cup_and_cone Much cheaper than I would've guessed.
@@cup_and_cone So not actually so far out of line with piston aircraft.
I heard recently where one of the big name boat motor makers announced a new all electric engine. I want to say it was Mercury but I maybe wrong. Also I watched a video not long ago of Los Angeles Fire talking about their new electric fire truck.
how long is the charging extension cord?
You just plug it in to the solar panels. Simples. 😉
Comprehensive info on charging here - www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/alpha-electro-successfully-charged-together-with-a-tesla-and-a-zero-motorcycle-archive/
No petrochemical odors in cabin. Noise level?
GREAT VIDEO, KEEP THE UPDATES COMING...
C'est un tre bon chapeau!
It's great to see electric planes become reality. There are some roles that current battery tech can already fulfill - such as self-launching gliders and trainers - and Pipistrel has pioneered both!
But I must point out it'll be a long, long time before long-haul flights will be electric. The jet fuel needed already comes in at one third of the takeoff weight, and battery tech has over an order of magnitude worse energy density - even factoring in the higher efficiency of electric propulsion. Hopefully some clean solution will come along to bridge that gap. Until then, maybe we'll see electric-assisted take-off and go-around, to reduce noise.
@Mark
The oxygen IC engines require comes free from the atmosphere and corresponds to about 4 times the fuel weight.
Batteries, roughly speaking must carry at least that more weight along. With today's technology its about 13 times more, and additionally no fuel weight is being reduced along the trip.
Recall the Breguet range equation:
R = L/D ÷ sfc × ln(1 + Wf ÷ We)
L/D.....lift to drag ratio
sfc.....specific fuel consumption
lbs/hp hour ~ 0.45 for properly leaned piston engines
Wf.....fuel weight
We.....aircraft zero fuel weight +
reserves.
ln.....natural log
hp...horsepower: 550 ft lbs / sec
hour: 3600 sec (trivial)
Nm : 6072 ft ~
carefull evaluation of the units of the inverse sfc units gives range in Nm, or km if metric equivalent is converted.
A whole new level of range anxiety
You'll have a glider after power is gone 😃
It’s a trainer. Probably never leave the traffic pattern. Practice takeoffs and landings only, most likely. If not, hold my beer! 😜 Does it have a BRS?
“Ya see that telephone pole in the distance? Our training flight is to fly over it and return before the wind comes up.”
The first electric airplane to be registered in my country has a very suitable tailnumber: SE-KWH.
Ha, ha, passande!
Do they have a Parachute system?
Your flight time is 15 minutes, since you’re supposed to keep a 45 minute reserve on your aircraft you only get 15 minutes of flight that’s barely once around the pattern
@@cannon440 you are correct
30 min reserve for day VFR in the US. Over in Europe, pipistrel had negotiated to have it lowered to 15 (I think). However, If you look at their website it says "50 min + reserve". That tells me it's 50 min of legal flying time.
@@Saml01 Well, 50 minutes legal for EASA if they did negotiate to 15 minute reserve on VFR...still would only be 35 minute flight time for FAA.
Funny how he doesn’t mention that in his speel. Good on you guys for bringing it up
The absolute flight time is 90 minutes, he was quoting total time minus reserve. Nice try tho
What is the expected cost per hour, including insurance and maintenance?
Obtw my gold CB500X wheels from Rally Raid arrived today!
Hope to run into you out here sometime this week, Juan!
I'd love to see Juan take this thing in the air!
Hey the first powered flight lasted 200ft. Atleast the first certified electrically powered flight can last nearly an hour. Sceptics will always be there to critique but pioneers do end up changing the future. Go Pipistrel
I like your optimism. Its gonna need another couple of revolutions in battery tech to get where we need to be. I suspect while thats being worked on, something else will appear instead..
@@MrRugbylane Considering a Lucid Air has a range of 500 miles and Long Range Model S is a bit over 400 miles, I’d say we’re very close to being there. 4680 cells from Tesla carry more energy than traditional 2170, so we’re even closer. Now it comes down to packaging and of course, cost. I can see 2 hours flight time in a couple of years. Remember, this is a trainer, not a cross country unit.
@@alexnutcasio936 i hope.so. it could be genuinely revoltionary for private aviation.
@@alexnutcasio936 Car range does not equate to aircraft range. Many light aircraft can fly for over 1,000 miles, some at over 200 mph. Try taking an electric car up to 200 miles an hour, see how far it goes.
Some improvements are there, for example a more efficient electric motor, compared to the induction motor used now.
Tesla's variable reluctance motor, with no losses in the rotor.
It just takes too much energy to fly for this to be practical anytime soon. So a few things they didn't mention, what's the useful load? What TAS can it cruise at? How much does it cost? If you stich those 3 categories together this thing is Miles behind a normal plane. A normal plane can burns fuel and therefore sheds weight as it flies, this thing will never catch up.
It's a training aircraft.
i hear a horse! neigh! neigh! swap the batteries for a tank of hydrogen and a catalyst, and this little plane has a range of 4 hours.
@@FiveTwoSevenTHR So is a Cessna 152 and it can fly for way longer than 50min and is probably 25% of the price.
Good point. As a gas powered plane uses up its fuel the engine keeps the same performance with a lighter load...with an electric the engine can only lose performance while still carrying the same load it took off with.
@@rdawgz866 Upfront cost of a 2-seat trainer means nothing for a flight school, it's all about operating cost and electric aircraft cost only a few dollars an hour to operate.
Are we talking 50 minutes flight time or 50 run time. Also reserve power time?
50 minutes plus reserve.
@@maurice_walker what kind of reserves? Is the bms setup so the battery doesn't charge to 100% and can handle some cell degradation before actually losing flight time?
Great hat, Juan !
how much does it cost ?
50 minutes in the air isn’t long enough….Cool info. Thanks Juan. Love the hat 😁
Agreed. IMO it's good only for traffic pattern work, or very short flights around the home airport - and then, just.
I'd not venture a 30min hop from one airport to the next, in a 50-minute endurance airplane. What if for some reason the runway is closed when you get there? No coming back.
For that matter... what if you're on your home airport doing touch and goes, and for some reason the runway closes? No range to go elsewhere?
As it stands... thanks, but no, thanks.
Cool concept, cool demonstrator airplane, but batteries still need improvement before this is safe or practical.
Weather comes in and tower says do some loops, we are low vis down here.
This is only the beginning! Electric aviation is now where electric cars were in 2009.
Cool. Good luck. 👍
I had heard of this and now I have seen it thanks.
I would love to have heard the motor. I suspect that it is very quiet.
No way 😳 to charge the batteries ?
It probably would be quiet. I'm wondering what frequencies the inverter runs at. Usually rotary electrical machinery on aircraft runs at 400 Hz (for synchronous operation) because there's less weight in higher frequency machines than the ground-based 50 or 60 Hz equipment. But this motor would need to run at variable speeds so the inverter would need to be a variable speed inverter, running at the hundreds of Hz range to keep the weight down.
Kudos pipistrel 👏💪 you are making a history and we are part of it
What's this FAA Mosaic rule that's coming in 2024? Any links or general information on that?
If two batteries cost 20000 How much does the plane cost?
Ten bucks! It's all about the batteries!
@@reddog-ex4dx 🤣
Isn’t that like all of your VFR day reserve req ?
landing light on, seat belts on, fuel selector..uh, mixture..., carb heat...uh, go around!
Juan; you are everywhere. Looking forward to your takes on Oshkosh.
The local flight school has bought these. I haven't noticed them in the air yet but I've wanted to see them flying.
Am I correct that there are high pressure coolant lines inside the passenger compartment? If so, how much of a safety risk is that?
Wouldn't EASA have addressed that for flight certification in Europe? They're way more safety conscious than anyone else.
People are pointing out a lot of the shortcomings of this 1st gen/1st attempt, and they're right. This can not completely replace the beater 172s that are the mainstay of early training. But for a 1st attempt, it's not far off to be useful for parts of initial training.
Here comes the closing sale argument….empty weight includes full tanks! But the battery TBO is at probably 80% capacity.
It must be so quiet.
Phantastic plane, many already flying here in Europe!
I don't know how much this costs, but I'm guessing at the very least $100,000 for something that can make 3 maybe 4 trips around the pattern before it has to sit on the ramp for at least a half hour for a full recharge. This airplane has such little use other than the first few hours of your training then you'll have to jump into a Skyhawk anyway to finish out the training and be behind the learning curve on gas engine management. That's a lot of expense just to learn pattern work with a couple of touch and go's.
Lol….just like the horse and buggy folks said about cars etc.
I'd probably multiply that number times FIVE if I were a bettin' man ...
@@gordybishop2375 Yep. Lots of very conservative people who are quite resistant to any form of change in the comments.
Love the Hat... Got one just like it, so it saves on the heat on the noggin, and leaves more money for fuel, fun, and food...
Perfect plane to do a review on, I have been wondering about these
Whats the glide ratio if you run out of juice?
With a half hour reserve that only leaves 20 minutes for training?
How would you do the long cross country flight required for the Private Pilot License in this aircraft?
Get the gas one.
Juan and Gryder have this whole life thing figured out, folks.... and I'm just tickled shitless getting to watch! haha!
Fascinating. Pretty cool. Found myself wondering how you charge the charger? Maybe plug it in when you get home? I'm a supporter of solar technology in general, alternative energy. We just have to figure out better ways to make it all work -
Good luck to him. Thanks for sharing.
Maybe connected to a 220
I do believe that your ice cream will be melting at night when Solar is absolutely useless!
The best solar panels last 15 to 20 years and contain a lot of nasty chemicals that don't degrade and are not recyclable.
@@leeroyholloway4277
Blah blah blah blah blah we don’t want to hear that I got fingers in my ears I’m not listening blah blah blah blah it’s all good for the environment Al Gore says so all the Democrats say so!!
Wow not bad, they're up and coming, 50 minutes now could easily be an hour and a half 2 years from now. Then for flight training purposes we'll really be talking. Very fun to see, thanks for sharing Juan!
Battery tech doesn't move that fast. I've been flying electric models for over 20 years. Once we started using lithium, flight times haven't really improved much since. We can pull more amps now, but even that comes with a weight penalty. 50 min now might be 60 in a couple years.
Well, I guess we'll just have to see lol. Let's see if they can get silicon batteries online and if that changes the game.
re: "50 minutes now could easily be an hour and a half 2 years from now" well no, it probably won't. that's just the "Myth of Progress" talking. #MYTHOFPROGRESS people with no understanding or reference for History will not be aware that the first battery (ie, "voltaic pile") was created all the way back in 1800, and the first Lion battery created back in 1980, so what that means is over 220 years and 40 years respectively were needed just to get to THIS point. ref: "Those who don't know History are DOOMED to repeat it..." - George Santayana (1863-1952)
Certainly one can expect the battery technology to track that for electric cars. There are plenty of naysayers (no doubt with jobs or their pension funds somehow wedded to society's continued consumption of oil), but I guess we'll see ...
Very cool!
Nice concept ways to go. Thanks Bronco
I’m sticking with Avgas!
Very nice!
.... what it is.. thanks for the RUclips Aviation news..
Love it! Now, what is the payload and the base price??? Thanks JuanB! Cheers from Texas.
The price is around $150,000 and the payload is two Ethiopians and their pet guinea pig.
Once these Aircraft get approved in the US how much will it save a student pilot getting his private pilot ticket? So I have heard it currently cost between $7K to $10K for a PPL.
They wouldn't save any money, at all. This aircraft is significantly more expensive than the ICE powered aircraft that it's based on, plus it requires the batteries to be replaced more than twice as often as the engine needs to be rebuilt in the ICE aircraft, and the batteries are far more expensive. This aircraft makes absolutely no sense, for any purpose.
It'll probably see a lot more service in Europe and countries where there is less resistance to adopting electric vehicles. I can't see USA taking it up in a hurry unless the price of AvGas goes through the roof.
$20,000 in batteries alone, and they need replacing every 2000 hours? Ouch. That compact 80-HP electric motor right behind the prop is a thing of beauty, though. It's a shame we still have a long way to go in making batteries more affordable and faster to charge, hopefully lighter and longer-lasting too.
That works out to $10/h. Still beats gas. Avgas at my local airport is over $7/gal.
@@t0ny747 Yep. Like putting away money made from lease back rentals for maintenance. Set aside $10/hr and you're covered.
@@kirkwagner461 you are forgetting about “the capacity check of the battery every 100 hrs, that probably is 2-3000 dollars each time.
@@Showboat_Six Sadly, good point. No telling what additional checks will be regulated.
@@t0ny747 And ICE engine inspection and overhaul costs ... which no-one has talked about in any of these comments so far.
50 minutes is just not enough, i'm sure it will get better, but I just don't see how it has a purpose in its current form.
why is the battery life only 2000 hrs?
How will you be able to use this for cross country training if the airports you need to go to do not have a charger?
Get the gas one!
80 mph and 50 minutes? That’s about 30 miles unless you aren’t planning on returning. Won’t need an emergency locator beacon or navigation equipment. 😀
No thanks ,. Not a chance I would never invest in one of those aircraft ,. He can keep it ! Your friend James
Seems like a novelty still with such short flight time per charge.
That's why Juan repeated that it was for training.
It's like the Piper Pilot 100i, it's only meant to be used by flight schools. This one is specifically meant for pattern work. You may be lucky to get a .7 in your logbook per flight, but it'll only cost you about what a .3 would in a 172.
@@peteranderson037 "but it'll only cost you about what a .3 would in a 172" not after the flight school realizes it has to swap the batteries it won't :P
2 hours plus reserve would make a game changer for IFR instruction.
Streamlined battery pods hung on each wing, quickly exchanged, should work, air cooled of course, no complicated water heat exchanger. Battery weight , carried directly by the wing where it reduces structural weight on the fuselage.
Since landings and take off are near 1 g load factor , the landing gear load structure to the wings is probably unaltered.
@@GuardedDragon And they don't have to fill it with fuel. Electricity is significantly cheaper in almost all places. Those batteries are just a different way of paying for fuel.
Love your "Gilligan" hat JB.
Btw, re: the electric airplane is it possible to add an alternater that "could" charge the batteries while flying, or would the additional device and probably belt involved cause additional drag on the electric motor reducing the performance? 2nd question is, if the wings had solar panels, would it be possible to charge the batteries?
Take care and fly safe. 🖖🏼🤟🏼
And here's another guy that believes in perpetual motion. It don't work that way folks.
Solar panels - not enough area to be worthwhile.
Huh?
Current solar panels are much too heavy. This plane does have a sort of regenerative braking that uses the prop to recharge the battery when the pilot wants to slow more. He discusses it briefly in the video. An electric motor can typically be turned into a generator or alternator by turning the shaft.
@@markmiller3279 See Scrappy airplane.
If the range is still around 30- 45 min then it is still an impossibility.
Won't work for commercial size aircrafts.
charge at any safeway
Biggest worry would be a battery fire. Scary
With lithium ion batteries most fires occur during charging or after a crash, when the plane should be on the ground.
That's a cool trainer!
Do we understand the cost to install 3 phase into a building not to mention the power comes from the grid and the amount of energy it takes to mine all the materials.
It's not a 3 phase motor, it's brushless. Ridiculous comment
@@jimbo44cc13 I think he's referring to the cost of installing 3-phase power at a hangar. Apparently many parts of the USA where hangars are located don't have 3-phase power ... I can say for certain, as I'm not from the USA.
But where the comment is a bit lopsided is this: what is the amount of energy required to mine all the materials for an ICE, and the oil to provide it? And what is the cost of maintaining the military activities required to safeguard that oil supply (think Invasion Of Iraq, for instance).
Another lopsided comment I've seen repeated here a lot is "$20k per battery pack every 2,000 hours" but the same people *don't* dare mention the cost of overhauling an ICE during that number of hours. I'm curious as to why these commenters don't they want to mention that as well?
I get the impression that many people in the USA have their incomes somehow wedded to society's ongoing consumption of oil. They also claim the economy will crash, but aren't able to see how as one part of the oil-related economy closes another part of the green economy opens. As I say to the kids, you're about to witness one of the biggest transformations in our society in the last 100 years. The last one was the conversion of horse and steam-drawn transport to oil-fired transport (and the economy didn't crash due to that), and you'll get to see the next one which is from oil-fired to electric transport.
Check out the electric Beaver at Vancouver B.C.
Beta Aviation has a few here in Burlington VT
Interesting, but what's the sense in having a charger that can't be carried on-board? Not to mention the LIPO lifespan. It's a green-wash. Like Tesla, you'll have to license the "features" and won't own the aircraft.
NTL, interesting idea and 'props' to them for coming up with their own solution on the electrical solution.
Did we watch the same video? I'm sure he said the charger *isn't* carried onboard, it's provided so that it can be taken in a vehicle - the same one which tows the trailer on which the aircraft is mounted. I'm sure he also said there are fixed chargers similar to Tesla chargers which can be installed in hangars, etc.
Those flaperons and engine braking will come in handy if they have a runaway lithium battery fire.
Lithium ion battery fires in vehicles are far fewer by percentage of miles driven than internal combustion engines. I suspect the same will be true of airplanes. Sitting on top of explosive AVgas just becomes normal after awhile, but is far more dangerous than lithium ion batteries.
@@GoCoyote I serious doubt your stats. Aside from collisions, there are few spontaneous auto fires from the ICE. You’d have to prove to me with your source to convince me. And an ICE in a plane rarely has an airborne fire related to the power plants. There is a reason you can only ship lithium batteries via ground.
@@bw162 You've never seen a car with its engine on fire at the side of the highway? Lucky you, because it's not that rare.
@@bw162 Here's one study being cited:
Research by another firm, AutoinsuranceEZ, says battery electric vehicles have just a .03% chance of igniting, compared to internal combustion engine vehicle's 1.5% chance. Hybrid electrics, which have both a high voltage battery and an internal combustion engine, have a 3.4% likelihood of vehicle fires according to their study.
@@markmiller3279 “We obviously don't know what will happen in 20 years when we've got electric vehicles that are 20 years old, and have been through 100 potholes and have a lot more wear and tear," Sutcliffe said. "We don't know what that will look like."…”EV car fires burn hotter and for a longer period of time. In gas cars there’s usually a single reaction, like a spark in a puddle of gasoline, that leads to the fire and that reaction eventually burns down. When an EV’s lithium-ion battery ignites the battery burns the energy stored inside, becoming the fire’s main source of energy”.
All fires are not the same. In aviation, you must look at the consequences. Like I said but you didn’t hear, you can’t transport lithium batteries via air. They must go via ground. Gee, I wonder why?
$20,000 every two thousand hours? 😰
Two thousand hours seems incredibly optimistic to me... That would be like ~2,500 charge cycles. A Tesla is only rated for 1,500 cycles. Flight schools are going to fly these on full discharge/charge cycles.
@@cup_and_cone This is not actually using all of the available power, as they also allow for a safety margin that when unused, increases the battery life. While batteries are rated for full charge and discharge at their C rate, any cycles that charge at a lower rate, or any discharges at a lower rate, and any cycles that do not use the full capacity greatly increase cycle life. Tesla is also going for the cheapest batteries it can get that meet its needs, while airplanes need the most expensive batteries.
How much does 2,000 hours of AvGas cost, out of interest? I'd like to compare some apples with apples. So also chuck in the cost of any servicing of the ICE engine in the "traditional" airplane.
@@vk2ig Very good point, as total cost over time is a very important factor.
Years ago a guy demonstrated a 2 person electric helicopter in Germany
Volocopter, not even a half hour flight endurance; too many (18) small rotors operating at low Reynolds number with poor efficiency
Parasitic power of a rotor is according to McCormick:
Pp = 3/4 × Lift × tipspeed × Cd/Cl
at low Re, Clmax is low and Cd is way high.
Good for Training very close to the FBO. Now the student will have to learn to also fly gas powered plane to compete his cross countries. Adds to the cost of learning.
In all honesty I think is electric plane is nice but most FBOs geared for students are barely making it with 30-40 year old Cessnas/pipers. I doubt if they will spring for an electric plane with limited use.
It'll probably see a lot more use in Europe - a lot less resistance to electric vehicles of any type over there than in the USA.
If there were solar cells on the wings it could be recharging on the ground while you talk about it.
Should check out Harbor airs Beaver electric float plane. Started in 2019 and has several test flights
Less moving parts to wear out or fail.