Honestly, if I had my floor tom set up with slack heads and a cocktail drum pedal, I would just be playing, “My Name is Mud,” over and over. That would make my day.
Nice video! I made one of these a few years ago. We had a little brewery gig, but there just wasn't much space. I used a 16" floor tom with a pinstripe on the kick side and a leather patch in the center, emperor on the stick side. Sounded really good. I also dropped a shop towel inside for a little additional muffling. It was kind of impromptu, so I had to use what i had on hand. I used a DW 5000 pedal and did the normal flopping of the sprocket and chain. I had a 1" square steel tube that I drilled holes in for the floor tom legs and mounted a piece of angle iron on it to attach the pedal to. Our songs that night were a cross between Misfits/GnR/Motorhead/ACDC. I used a Pearl M-80 for the snare and an 8" tom from a kid's kit. 18" crash for a ride, large splash for a crash, regular hihat's on a normal hihat stand and a 12" Wuhan china. Mic'ed the underside with a D112 and put an overhead over the kit for everything else. Super easy, sounded really good and I was able to do almost everything I normally do. We are getting volume complaints in our Country/80's Rock/Blues cover band at a particular venue, so I am thinking about taking it out next time we play there.
I got to see Ghost Note live at City Winery in Nashville, and Sput was playing one of the TAMA cocktail jam kits. He was sat front and center of the stage, and my seat was super close. If you had only heard it through the PA, you would’ve had no idea he was playing a small kit like that. It sounded huge! It was fun watching the bass drum muffler jump up and down when he would hit the kick lol. I’d like to mess around on one but haven’t seen one in person yet
Thanks for this video, nearly perfect timing - I've JUST finished building a traditional style cocktail kit and took it out for my first gig on the weekend. I used an Aquarian SK1 on the 'bottom' and a Remo CS clear on the 'top.' I designed the kit to be 'robust' enough for medium volume blues gigs, with a 12x6 snare and fairly heavy duty mounts (including your mate INDe's mount brackets.) Thoughts so far are: in the attached studio video, the sound is 'big' with just a D6 underneath and a LDC overhead. Playing feel: occasionally you get a 'double bounce on the trampoline' feel when you synchronise a tom hit with a kick hit. I found myself trying to open the hi-hats at times, or reaching for the non-existent left-side crash, but I'll get used to that. Gigging: punters love it! After 3 x 45 minus sets, my left leg felt like I'd been at the gym. You can offset some of the fatigue by having a bit of a dance around between songs. ruclips.net/video/qZTyJLjU8Q4/видео.html
I did this for a while with a 16” floor Tom, coated ambassadors top and bottom. I had a small square of t shirt material inside, and would place a tea towel on top if I wanted more muffling. I really liked being able to go from an open jazzy kick to a punchy rock kick just by putting the towel on top. I wish I could have that instant versatility with a normal kick.
My cocktail kit is 15" heads x 24" with 8" snare, 10" tom. Changed to 10" Pork Pie that still hangs off the side. I still use a stool so I can play a HiHat. The 24" tall is really too tall and very annoying. I will be trying your config w/my 16 and/or 18 floor tom. Looking forward to next week with bass drum pedal. You guys often have some fun stuff even for an old dog.
This may seem a bit crazy but hear me out: I'm thinking that this would be cool used in a decent sized progressive metal/rock kit as a "Remote kick-tom" where in addition to having your double pedal kick (or whatever else you use) in front you can have this in place of a floor tom or even gong drum by using a pedal with a long shaft so it is accessible from the front of the kit not only would you have a lower tuned tom, but you would have a kick with a different tuning that you could also incorporate into your fills for added variety as well as maybe discover some rather unorthodox stuff that you could apply in some rather unique ways!
Great episode as always, Ive been doing this for a few years now and it works and sounds great. I use an Evans Hydraulic for the batter (bottom) with some lite foam (similar to your cotton ball method) and a coated ambassador with a variety of muffling rings etc. Usually tune the stick side head up a third or a fifth and mic the bottom. Sound guys always comment on how good it sounds, and no bass drum lug!
Man this video was perfect I've been experimenting with my floor down quite a bit. Getting the same sound on my 16 using remo black suede emperor on the top and a pinstriped on the bottom using the big fat snare drum on the top using stix! I play a single pedal dW 5k on a 22 kick but enjoy doing double kick accents & fills in the mix . I really dig this sound . DEFINITELY BE GETTING THE EVANS 16" TOM EM. Thanks cheers from Knoxville
I always liked the Idea of a Cocktail Kit but I don't have a lot of situations where I would use it, now you opened up to me the idea of building one with what I already have at home, I need only some harware to mount the snare without having a regular snare stand for the super cramped super light situations.
Had a gig in a tiny brewery and another player had a true one piece cocktail drum that I borrowed. 14x24 or so, kick head on bottom, snare head on top with snares under the top head. Very strange, but very fun!
This was great! My “mental image” (as Cody put it) of a cocktail drum is an elongated floor tom (say, 16 x 24), with a pedal on the bottom as demonstrated, but with snare wires under the top head. There might be a small cymbal on a bracket attached to the shell. It was played - with brushes - by a slightly aging female jazz singer to accompany herself along with either a guitar player or a pianist - but not both! (God, I'm old ...)
2 of the heaviest and most raw energy Ive ever seen was Nirvana and the Stray Cats, Ive seen Slim Jim Phantom make that stand up cocktail kit sound like Thunder
I bet this would work great to get an auxiliary bass drum sound without making your kit unbearable huge. You could probably even convert a double pedal so you can have a floor tom/high kick drum sound for faster playing, then a lower, larger kick to drop the bass when a slow part hits.
i used a 15x22 with a ambassador on top and powerstroke 3 on the bottom as a second floortom on the PARAGON record "controled demolition" ( a lot in the intro ;) soundes huge! and ps3 became my favorid reso head for floortoms. i also startet testing out to use a remote pedal to play the bottom of a floortom on my regular kit as a aditional bassdrum sound without having to bring another bassdrum or something, its fun. btw try puting a (jingle) ching ring on top of those drums and see what happens!
I actually tried this! I used my old Tama Rockstar floor tom, an old ludwig pedal I could invert and a popcorn snare I attached to the rim with some kind of adapter hook. Even attached a cymbal arm. Unfortunately I couldn't get the kick to sound as loud as I wanted. I'm very interested to see how you set your pedal up. Not so fun story: I tried bringing this contraption to Starwberry Fields in Central Park to accompany some musicians. It was going alright until I got the business from park security. 🙁
This gives me the idea of taking a "virgin" bass drum and reorienting it vertically. You could be starting the next big trend! "Aren't you annoyed the bass drum faces away from you limiting what you can hear from the reso side while playing?"
As much as I like the idea, I think for anything that makes extensive use of kick it might not be worth it. Reorienting the pedal for light kick usage is fine, but I can't imagine being able to do 16ths or 32nds like that.
It was shockingly responsive this way- to the point where I could do doubles and triples without noticing much of a difference compared to a standard pedal setup. -Ben
@@a.j.wilkes6352 yeah, I'll see if I can find the video. Martin had made a social media post about engineering a kick pedal to be visible from the top of the drum do the audience could see it. Edit: ruclips.net/video/dcosgma0l-Q/видео.html here it is
I played a kit with a 16" bass drum for several years in a wedding band (Manu Katche Hip Gig) and on singer-based jazz gigs. Sadly heads like the Emad didn't exist then so it was really challenging to get a good, fat bass drum sound. but for the jazz gigs, it was really good. I also used it with a 7x12 soprano snare and 13" K hats... which I loved. It was a great tight fit kit. But I'll say there is nothing like a full-sized set of drums and cymbals. It was a novelty playing that tiny kit, but I dont think I would want to do it again.
Hey, Cody. I'm thinking of converting a 16"X18" floor tom into a cocktail bass/floor combo, similar to what you have here. Question: Would an 18" bass drum head fit on the floor tom provided I swapped the tom's hoop for a wood or metal bass drum hoop? I know you said the collar on a bass drum head is different from a tom collar, but say I use an Evans Level 360 18" bass drum head, it should work provided I swap out the hoop, correct?
Update, I custom ordered a 17"X20 bass drum/floor tom combo from SideKick Drums. Next, I'm getting some Ludwig Atlas brackets to change out some lugs so I can add legs to it so it can stand upright. Likely going to use the new Rogers pedal because it is super smooth and can have its height adjusted. It's also super easy to convert because it only has one side that holds the arm. Can't wait to get it all together so I can kick out the jams to my favorite tunes! :)
Definitely a more dramatic difference in tone compared to the same thing at a lower tuning. Of course, this can also be used artistically if you’re adept with both techniques.
Hey there! This may be a complicated one if you're not familiar with engineering and product development/introduction. As simple as it may seem, the EMAD requires a custom PVC molded tray to vary particular specs via vacuum molding. There isn't enough space in the current mold to add a 14" inside it so a new mold would need to be created. The system (at least as it was when I worked for D'Addario) couldn't accommodate smaller sizes like that either- I had to push to get the 16" tested and it just barely fit. Just the capital expenditure for tooling up isn't cheap and likely couldn't ever be paid for via product sales because the likelihood of 14" EMADs selling that much is quite low. On top of that, drumhead line extensions are the nightmare of every retailer so most wouldn't even carry it and D'Addario would be stuck warehousing them and shipping direct to consumers. There are massive opportunity costs to consider with the development of any new product, even if it seems like a simple line extension. The amount of time and communication that goes into executing something like this, even if it goes perfectly and doesn't require revision, is still quite high and it means that other projects, which would likely contribute far more to the bottom line, are sacrificed. tldr: expensive development costs and lack of projected return on investment combined with opportunity cost means that this isn't likely. You're better off stacking some E-rings or working on another DIY option. -Ben
Brand management and product development are a real blast. I feel so lucky to have gotten into the industry through that opportunity. I’m split between being a creative and also LOVING analytics and organization (one of the reasons why social marketing strategy and content creation is my day job!) so all of these things really fuel my fire. Of course, having it all relate back to the world of music and/or drumming makes it something I can find an incredible amount of joy in day after day.
Definitely an option to consider! It’s a *very* different head, despite often being compared to the EMAD, but if a 14” is what you need, that could be an excellent route to go! Also nice to have the extra real estate on the surface of the head when it comes to a smaller diameter.
saw Glen Kotche doin this years ago with the Evans oil filled heads which is an idea he got from older avante garde players. fun and not new as in bass drum head on top.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Honestly, if I had my floor tom set up with slack heads and a cocktail drum pedal, I would just be playing, “My Name is Mud,” over and over. That would make my day.
Haha, best comment ever.
One of my favorite cocktail drummers, Mimi Parker(r.i.p.💐) from Low, had epic feel, tone, elegance, and innovation.
LOVED the second tuning setup with the 808ish sound
Nice video!
I made one of these a few years ago. We had a little brewery gig, but there just wasn't much space. I used a 16" floor tom with a pinstripe on the kick side and a leather patch in the center, emperor on the stick side. Sounded really good. I also dropped a shop towel inside for a little additional muffling. It was kind of impromptu, so I had to use what i had on hand. I used a DW 5000 pedal and did the normal flopping of the sprocket and chain. I had a 1" square steel tube that I drilled holes in for the floor tom legs and mounted a piece of angle iron on it to attach the pedal to. Our songs that night were a cross between Misfits/GnR/Motorhead/ACDC. I used a Pearl M-80 for the snare and an 8" tom from a kid's kit. 18" crash for a ride, large splash for a crash, regular hihat's on a normal hihat stand and a 12" Wuhan china. Mic'ed the underside with a D112 and put an overhead over the kit for everything else. Super easy, sounded really good and I was able to do almost everything I normally do.
We are getting volume complaints in our Country/80's Rock/Blues cover band at a particular venue, so I am thinking about taking it out next time we play there.
I got to see Ghost Note live at City Winery in Nashville, and Sput was playing one of the TAMA cocktail jam kits. He was sat front and center of the stage, and my seat was super close. If you had only heard it through the PA, you would’ve had no idea he was playing a small kit like that. It sounded huge! It was fun watching the bass drum muffler jump up and down when he would hit the kick lol. I’d like to mess around on one but haven’t seen one in person yet
Ghost note are amazing! Sput's solo compositions are great too!🤘
I'd also love to play a cocktail kit
Any comments on the bass drum head Sput uses in the Sugar Shack Sessions? Thanks
Thanks for this video, nearly perfect timing - I've JUST finished building a traditional style cocktail kit and took it out for my first gig on the weekend.
I used an Aquarian SK1 on the 'bottom' and a Remo CS clear on the 'top.' I designed the kit to be 'robust' enough for medium volume blues gigs, with a 12x6 snare and fairly heavy duty mounts (including your mate INDe's mount brackets.)
Thoughts so far are: in the attached studio video, the sound is 'big' with just a D6 underneath and a LDC overhead.
Playing feel: occasionally you get a 'double bounce on the trampoline' feel when you synchronise a tom hit with a kick hit. I found myself trying to open the hi-hats at times, or reaching for the non-existent left-side crash, but I'll get used to that.
Gigging: punters love it! After 3 x 45 minus sets, my left leg felt like I'd been at the gym. You can offset some of the fatigue by having a bit of a dance around between songs.
ruclips.net/video/qZTyJLjU8Q4/видео.html
I did this for a while with a 16” floor Tom, coated ambassadors top and bottom. I had a small square of t shirt material inside, and would place a tea towel on top if I wanted more muffling. I really liked being able to go from an open jazzy kick to a punchy rock kick just by putting the towel on top. I wish I could have that instant versatility with a normal kick.
My cocktail kit is 15" heads x 24" with 8" snare, 10" tom. Changed to 10" Pork Pie that still hangs off the side. I still use a stool so I can play a HiHat. The 24" tall is really too tall and very annoying. I will be trying your config w/my 16 and/or 18 floor tom. Looking forward to next week with bass drum pedal. You guys often have some fun stuff even for an old dog.
Did cobble up cocktail kit before snagging actual and shortening bass drum height to create sit-down mode. It is all I use now, sounds great.
This may seem a bit crazy but hear me out:
I'm thinking that this would be cool used in a decent sized progressive metal/rock kit as a "Remote kick-tom" where in addition to having your double pedal kick (or whatever else you use) in front you can have this in place of a floor tom or even gong drum by using a pedal with a long shaft so it is accessible from the front of the kit
not only would you have a lower tuned tom, but you would have a kick with a different tuning that you could also incorporate into your fills for added variety as well as maybe discover some rather unorthodox stuff that you could apply in some rather unique ways!
Great episode as always, Ive been doing this for a few years now and it works and sounds great. I use an Evans Hydraulic for the batter (bottom) with some lite foam (similar to your cotton ball method) and a coated ambassador with a variety of muffling rings etc.
Usually tune the stick side head up a third or a fifth and mic the bottom. Sound guys always comment on how good it sounds, and no bass drum lug!
Man this video was perfect I've been experimenting with my floor down quite a bit. Getting the same sound on my 16 using remo black suede emperor on the top and a pinstriped on the bottom using the big fat snare drum on the top using stix! I play a single pedal dW 5k on a 22 kick but enjoy doing double kick accents & fills in the mix . I really dig this sound . DEFINITELY BE GETTING THE EVANS 16" TOM EM. Thanks cheers from Knoxville
I always liked the Idea of a Cocktail Kit but I don't have a lot of situations where I would use it, now you opened up to me the idea of building one with what I already have at home, I need only some harware to mount the snare without having a regular snare stand for the super cramped super light situations.
Had a gig in a tiny brewery and another player had a true one piece cocktail drum that I borrowed. 14x24 or so, kick head on bottom, snare head on top with snares under the top head. Very strange, but very fun!
Gig was with a small New Orleans style brass band on Mardi Gras
This was great! My “mental image” (as Cody put it) of a cocktail drum is an elongated floor tom (say, 16 x 24), with a pedal on the bottom as demonstrated, but with snare wires under the top head. There might be a small cymbal on a bracket attached to the shell. It was played - with brushes - by a slightly aging female jazz singer to accompany herself along with either a guitar player or a pianist - but not both! (God, I'm old ...)
This is what I always think of when I hear "cocktail kit," too
Yep, same thought in my mind.
Love this channel!! Always interesting what you chaps do with acoustic drums.. keep up the great work!
Great video! Nice to see Ben wielding the sticks, too. 😁
Thanks! I like to make a cameo from time to time 😉
The tuning at 8:00 sounds absolutely sick. I might try a similar setup on a 14" because that is what i have :)
Another awesome video
Great video!
I have a 16" with wood hoops/emad & a DW "Sidekick" pedal which works but the pedal not simple to transport, looking forward to the next vid re: pedal
2 of the heaviest and most raw energy Ive ever seen was Nirvana and the Stray Cats, Ive seen Slim Jim Phantom make that stand up cocktail kit sound like Thunder
Fun stuff.
I bet this would work great to get an auxiliary bass drum sound without making your kit unbearable huge. You could probably even convert a double pedal so you can have a floor tom/high kick drum sound for faster playing, then a lower, larger kick to drop the bass when a slow part hits.
i used a 15x22 with a ambassador on top and powerstroke 3 on the bottom as a second floortom on the PARAGON record "controled demolition" ( a lot in the intro ;) soundes huge! and ps3 became my favorid reso head for floortoms. i also startet testing out to use a remote pedal to play the bottom of a floortom on my regular kit as a aditional bassdrum sound without having to bring another bassdrum or something, its fun. btw try puting a (jingle) ching ring on top of those drums and see what happens!
Just bought a little cocktail kit today and am wondering if there’s a technique for getting that top head if the kick to even a little higher tone?
I actually tried this! I used my old Tama Rockstar floor tom, an old ludwig pedal I could invert and a popcorn snare I attached to the rim with some kind of adapter hook. Even attached a cymbal arm. Unfortunately I couldn't get the kick to sound as loud as I wanted. I'm very interested to see how you set your pedal up.
Not so fun story: I tried bringing this contraption to Starwberry Fields in Central Park to accompany some musicians. It was going alright until I got the business from park security. 🙁
Please make a vid whit a standing cocktail drum…
I had a cocktail kit years ago but I had to play it standing up, which was odd.
@4:08 what does 'dynasonic level' mean? Full frequency range audio?
That’s one of the tiers within our Patreon. We named them after classic snare drum models.
This gives me the idea of taking a "virgin" bass drum and reorienting it vertically. You could be starting the next big trend! "Aren't you annoyed the bass drum faces away from you limiting what you can hear from the reso side while playing?"
As much as I like the idea, I think for anything that makes extensive use of kick it might not be worth it. Reorienting the pedal for light kick usage is fine, but I can't imagine being able to do 16ths or 32nds like that.
It was shockingly responsive this way- to the point where I could do doubles and triples without noticing much of a difference compared to a standard pedal setup. -Ben
Wintergatan did this "recently" (within past 10 years)
@@anotherdrummer2 Like a full 22” size bass drum vertical?
@@a.j.wilkes6352 yeah, I'll see if I can find the video. Martin had made a social media post about engineering a kick pedal to be visible from the top of the drum do the audience could see it.
Edit: ruclips.net/video/dcosgma0l-Q/видео.html here it is
You guys posted on Instagram showing a new video about port holes in base drums but its not on your channel? I've noticed this before too
That’s not a new video- we released it about a year ago. If you check the details of the post, there’s a reference to the specific season and episode.
I played a kit with a 16" bass drum for several years in a wedding band (Manu Katche Hip Gig) and on singer-based jazz gigs. Sadly heads like the Emad didn't exist then so it was really challenging to get a good, fat bass drum sound. but for the jazz gigs, it was really good. I also used it with a 7x12 soprano snare and 13" K hats... which I loved. It was a great tight fit kit.
But I'll say there is nothing like a full-sized set of drums and cymbals. It was a novelty playing that tiny kit, but I dont think I would want to do it again.
Hey, Cody. I'm thinking of converting a 16"X18" floor tom into a cocktail bass/floor combo, similar to what you have here. Question: Would an 18" bass drum head fit on the floor tom provided I swapped the tom's hoop for a wood or metal bass drum hoop? I know you said the collar on a bass drum head is different from a tom collar, but say I use an Evans Level 360 18" bass drum head, it should work provided I swap out the hoop, correct?
Update, I custom ordered a 17"X20 bass drum/floor tom combo from SideKick Drums. Next, I'm getting some Ludwig Atlas brackets to change out some lugs so I can add legs to it so it can stand upright. Likely going to use the new Rogers pedal because it is super smooth and can have its height adjusted. It's also super easy to convert because it only has one side that holds the arm. Can't wait to get it all together so I can kick out the jams to my favorite tunes! :)
What mic do you use for the snare?
AKG C518. All technical details are included in the video descriptions.
Cool! You really pay a price for burying the beater on those higher tunings, though.
Definitely a more dramatic difference in tone compared to the same thing at a lower tuning. Of course, this can also be used artistically if you’re adept with both techniques.
How to get this inverted pedal?
ruclips.net/video/JAEW45MxaII/видео.html
will champion does this druing coldplay hyem for the weekneed 2022 threw 2023
Th "batom" Clyde Lucas! That is all
Could you ask Ben here as to why there isn´t a 14" emad head?
Hey there! This may be a complicated one if you're not familiar with engineering and product development/introduction. As simple as it may seem, the EMAD requires a custom PVC molded tray to vary particular specs via vacuum molding. There isn't enough space in the current mold to add a 14" inside it so a new mold would need to be created. The system (at least as it was when I worked for D'Addario) couldn't accommodate smaller sizes like that either- I had to push to get the 16" tested and it just barely fit. Just the capital expenditure for tooling up isn't cheap and likely couldn't ever be paid for via product sales because the likelihood of 14" EMADs selling that much is quite low. On top of that, drumhead line extensions are the nightmare of every retailer so most wouldn't even carry it and D'Addario would be stuck warehousing them and shipping direct to consumers. There are massive opportunity costs to consider with the development of any new product, even if it seems like a simple line extension. The amount of time and communication that goes into executing something like this, even if it goes perfectly and doesn't require revision, is still quite high and it means that other projects, which would likely contribute far more to the bottom line, are sacrificed.
tldr: expensive development costs and lack of projected return on investment combined with opportunity cost means that this isn't likely. You're better off stacking some E-rings or working on another DIY option.
-Ben
As said before the super kick heads are very different heads, however they are made in 14” sizes and might get that same sort of vibe
@@SoundsLikeADrum Admittedly, I am an accountant by trade, but the intersection of drums and finance was riveting to me. 🙂
Brand management and product development are a real blast. I feel so lucky to have gotten into the industry through that opportunity. I’m split between being a creative and also LOVING analytics and organization (one of the reasons why social marketing strategy and content creation is my day job!) so all of these things really fuel my fire. Of course, having it all relate back to the world of music and/or drumming makes it something I can find an incredible amount of joy in day after day.
Sorry, but I refuse to play my drums standing up. LOL!!!
...but I will give this setup a try! I have to do a LOT of small space gigs, and this could work! Thank you!
- Видишь бочку?
- Нет.
- А она есть!
Praying hard for a 14" Emad 🙃
Sadly not at all likely to happen based on the cost of mold development and anticipated ROI. Better off using a simple E-ring.
@@SoundsLikeADrum Aquarian makes their Super Kick I & Super Kick II with a tom hoop in 14", 15", and 16"
@@SoundsLikeADrum 🥲♥️
@@matthewafrazer thanks!
Definitely an option to consider! It’s a *very* different head, despite often being compared to the EMAD, but if a 14” is what you need, that could be an excellent route to go! Also nice to have the extra real estate on the surface of the head when it comes to a smaller diameter.
This makes me want to put together a “guerrilla” style street punk band!
saw Glen Kotche doin this years ago with the Evans oil filled heads which is an idea he got from older avante garde players. fun and not new as in bass drum head on top.
It's a shame the biggest you can get is a 16" emad floor tom an 18" would be great.
D'Addario extended the line of tom hoop options to 18" not long ago. It wasn't marketed at all but it's available.