Looking at the performance verses the cost for the Arrow, it deserved to be cancelled. It was far more expensive than the F-4 Phantom and in many ways the Arrow's performance was inferior.
Great video. My father worked with Eliot Bros on the inertial navigation systems in TSR2. He did this after working on Blue Steel in Woomera, South Australia. He definitely saw it as a missed opportunity and the Australian decision to go with F111 as key to TSR2's ultimate failure.
Government "Unless all you different aircraft companies get together we won't give you any contracts". Companies "OK, we have merged from 17 companies to two". Government "Thanks, we are cancelling the contracts".
Was the supersonic element of TSR2 necessary once the Deterrent was to be Polaris? The real idiocy was to order F111 and Phantom as replacements when the Buccaneer and P18 VG-Lightning provided enough cover for future needs of RAF and RN.
18:53 Looks like a duck about to land on a pond. Those Olympus engines were a sooty thing, leaving dark trails even on the more refined Concorde - Was obviously made reliable for that roll, at least. The TSR2 landing gear fault 😳😳😳 OMG that flex!!!
The sooty exhaust probably didn't matter for military use. Have a look at old footage of B52s taking off. The ability of the Olympus engine to cruise supersonic for hours without using afterburn would have been invaluable in a military aircraft, at least until SAM missiles improved to the point that flying at altitude became too dangerous.
I'm sure the comment section will be a paragon of polite and well informed discourse, definitely not just rammed full of people expressing very strong feelings. :)
Another victim of creative British enginering murdered by rusty old historic ( read bad ) British managmentstyle. Lots of UK companies were sadly ruined that way. British Railways, British Leyland, shipbuilding aviation etc. etc.
Yes, can't help wondering if the TSR2 would have been better than the F111 in Vietnam, able to fly faster for longer. But the question is moot since the USA wasn't going to buy it anyway.
The decision to cut all government spending took place in November 1964 during the first run on Sterling. This run on Sterling was caused by the trade deficit of £800 million (run up prior to the October General Election - and already prepared for by the Conservative government) coupled with the election of Labour and their November business as usual budget. TSR-2 was one of the items decided to be cut. The runs on Sterling continued with tge Labour government trying to prop up Sterling with foreign currency reserves (all spent),bulkion reserves (mostly spent) and loans from the IMF and the central banks of many countries (with no strings attached as we had already decided on spending cuts). The series of Sterling crises was only endec when Sterling was devalued by 14% against the US Dollar from an exchange rate of $2.80 to $2.40. This effective wastge final nail in the coffin of the F-111K. Increasing costs plus the reduced exchange rate made the F-111K more expensive than the cancelled TSR-2 would have been at the time of its cancellation.
This is an intelligent review of an aircraft that awakens a lot of emotion amongst a certain generation.
Reminds me a lot of the Canadian Avro Arrow cancellation
Looking at the performance verses the cost for the Arrow, it deserved to be cancelled. It was far more expensive than the F-4 Phantom and in many ways the Arrow's performance was inferior.
I agree
When a Vought F8 Crusader and BAC Lightning love each other very much... ❤
Another fascinating video thank you
XB-70, TSR-2 and F-108 Rapier are perfect examples of what aviation would have been if those aircrafts entered service.
Great video. My father worked with Eliot Bros on the inertial navigation systems in TSR2. He did this after working on Blue Steel in Woomera, South Australia. He definitely saw it as a missed opportunity and the Australian decision to go with F111 as key to TSR2's ultimate failure.
Again a history of an amazing aviation product told with great details and story. Thank you!
Government "Unless all you different aircraft companies get together we won't give you any contracts".
Companies "OK, we have merged from 17 companies to two".
Government "Thanks, we are cancelling the contracts".
Never had a chance with the three Cs at work - cronyism, corruption and committees!
Fantastic video as always awesome detail
Didnt Sands know missiles can be fired from planes?
Was the supersonic element of TSR2 necessary once the Deterrent was to be Polaris? The real idiocy was to order F111 and Phantom as replacements when the Buccaneer and P18 VG-Lightning provided enough cover for future needs of RAF and RN.
20:57 - It cannot be OVERSTATED
18:53 Looks like a duck about to land on a pond.
Those Olympus engines were a sooty thing, leaving dark trails even on the more refined Concorde - Was obviously made reliable for that roll, at least.
The TSR2 landing gear fault 😳😳😳
OMG that flex!!!
The sooty exhaust probably didn't matter for military use. Have a look at old footage of B52s taking off. The ability of the Olympus engine to cruise supersonic for hours without using afterburn would have been invaluable in a military aircraft, at least until SAM missiles improved to the point that flying at altitude became too dangerous.
Most interesting - thanks!
I'm sure the comment section will be a paragon of polite and well informed discourse, definitely not just rammed full of people expressing very strong feelings. :)
Beautiful bird😊
Another victim of creative British enginering murdered by rusty old historic ( read bad ) British managmentstyle.
Lots of UK companies were sadly ruined that way. British Railways, British Leyland, shipbuilding aviation etc. etc.
What if, F111 vs TSR2?
What is max dry setting?
Max power without re-heat
Maximum thrust without afterburner.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 thank you
What could have been...
Make a sentence using the following words:- Piss-up - Brewery - Couldn't - Organise.
So much unjustified hype around this plane. Even the specification was nowhere near the capability of the F-111 (look it up, folks!)
Yes, can't help wondering if the TSR2 would have been better than the F111 in Vietnam, able to fly faster for longer. But the question is moot since the USA wasn't going to buy it anyway.
It doesn't feel like its existence has been missed in any operational requirement since it was canned.
Never heard of any FOR339, but I have heard of GOR339 short for General Operational Requirement 339. A version of this requirement led to the F-111.
Tornado rules.....it may be gone from R.A.F service but its not dead yet
The decision to cut all government spending took place in November 1964 during the first run on Sterling. This run on Sterling was caused by the trade deficit of £800 million (run up prior to the October General Election - and already prepared for by the Conservative government) coupled with the election of Labour and their November business as usual budget. TSR-2 was one of the items decided to be cut. The runs on Sterling continued with tge Labour government trying to prop up Sterling with foreign currency reserves (all spent),bulkion reserves (mostly spent) and loans from the IMF and the central banks of many countries (with no strings attached as we had already decided on spending cuts). The series of Sterling crises was only endec when Sterling was devalued by 14% against the US Dollar from an exchange rate of $2.80 to $2.40. This effective wastge final nail in the coffin of the F-111K. Increasing costs plus the reduced exchange rate made the F-111K more expensive than the cancelled TSR-2 would have been at the time of its cancellation.
Beautiful Aircraft Horrible Project Management, But hey aT lEAst wE aReNT sPEakINg gERmAn 🤡