TGB R50X Scooter Tuning The Variator Contra Spring And Road Test
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- TGB R50X Scooter Tuning The Variator Contra Spring And Road Test. In this video I try a few things to get some more speed out of the TGB R50X scooter but it looks like I'll have to settle for the speed in the video.
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I remember when I had a moped I asked a mechanic how could I make it go faster he said throw it off a cliff lol 😂
Not an expert by any means but think the stronger spring on the clutch has had a counter effect. For top speed you want the heavier front rollers and a lighter spring on the clutch. The reverse for acceleration. If it can't overcome the clutch spring tension it will never reach its top gear ratios. Really awkward and like you said it is an art unto itself. Love the videos Martin keep up the good work👍👍👍
lovely slabs in back garden !!!
ive got a different scoot with the exact same engine (50cc morini ac) mines hitting around 44-46mph. its factory all I have done is remove the restrictor plate from the variator (yours may already be removed) and then mine had a restriction in the exhaust in the form of an extra dead end pipe which I cut off and welded up the hole. my transmission set up is all factory (mine has 6g rollers as standard). so I would suggest first have a look and make sure all restrictions are removed from the exhaust and variator then check the carb/intake for any restrictor plates. mine doesnt have a rev counter so no idea what mine revs to but if yours wont go past 9000 its possible its restricted by the cdi in which case you may want to try getting an aftermarket cdi and trying that (ive heard of them restricting the suzuki katana 50 which uses the same engine that way). that red 2000rpm spring is way too stiff thats more for highly tuned peds kicking out close to 20hp like drag bikes all its going to do in yours is make it rev too hard and shred the belt much quicker
Softer spring is the way to go for top end.Harder spring means you need more revs to over come the resistance of the spring.
I have the revs, 9,000 rpm, I could try the white spring
@@retrorestore bv a
This was so interesting ! Hoping some answers come in for this. Btw, the patio looks great ! 👍
Leave cover off and run it and see if belt has full travel to bottom of groove, lighter spring will let belt go deeper easier, shorter belt may be needed to get full travel, seems quite loose when static.
I could try the white spring.
Thank you for sharing your wonderful videos I enjoy watching I am from South Africa
Great video Martin,,,I reckon you won’t give up and that scooter will get to 45mph before the months out,,,,, keep tinkering,,, love it
We shall see
I had a Peugeot trekker back in 2004 i had 70 out of it I put malossie tuning kit on it played round verater but can't remember for the life of me what I done with it now I remember there was a spacer in the verater I took that out and it made hell of a difference with the gearing
Well at least you tried to get it above 35mph. Great work and thanks for sharing this with us take care
black marker pen used on the sides of the slopes on variator see if the belt at full revs on the bench /lift. removes the black pen marks Also seen variator weights mixed that are different weights used Also the lighter spring (white ) will move it down the clutch pulley at lower RPM On the reed valves without spending money they may be able to be turned over to take out any losses due to them becoming weak over the years Some are only attached with screws .I enjoy the vids reminds me when I used to work on Lambretta's .It's a lot of trial and error with the 50cc peds to get it right though remember though people with a larger bone structure and BMI are going to cause wind resistance and the motor will have to work harder than with a 9 stone teenager .Sure you will work it out M8
I have already filmed the next vid and done the black pen trick, You'll see that vid next week. I'm waiting for some lighter weights and will be fitting the white spring.
@@retrorestore look forward to next week
Stick it in the boot of the Mondeo Mart see how fast it goes then 👍👍 What a berk, thats exactly what I'd do. Geat stuff Mart love it 👍👍👍
Great video Martin the patio looks grand
Thanks 👍
I love like watching RUclips shows
My mate had one these upto 78 mph down hill, mind you the hill was Beachy Head.
The bike is looking fantastic am sure you will sort it out and the pavers are looking really nice 👌 👍
Thanks 👍
Loved the vid...👍especially Martin Vision when u was on the bike. Really good
Thanks 👍
This is an older video, but I noticed a pretty bad exhaust leak where the muffler attaches, I had the same problem with mine. Unrestricted mine will do 40mph, Malossi belt, 7/8 gram rollers, uni filter material in a stock air box, stock otherwise. I do have some Malossi clutch springs, and a malossi yellow contra on the way to hopefully help with acceleration. Might try a Tecnigas pipe to gain some more top end, I think the stock exhausts on these are SUPER restrictive.
Try going down the road with the cap loose and see what happens. You could also have diaphram trouble not letting the slide to move upwards. Take out the 2 screws on top of the carburetor and carefully remove diaphram and check for any pin holes in it. Make sure the slide moves up and down freely.
No diaphragm in this carb Chris
Martin:
Think about gear ratios and how that Reeves drive is working...
You'll be wanting a weaker spring on the back pulley (so it compresses easier and thus reduces the contact diameter)
And a stronger setup on the front pulley...
Then try it...🇬🇧🙂
Paving slabs are looking good now you've grouted them.
Pointed?
That exhaust will be re-stricting it, try a different exhaust and up-jet it and it will go a bit quicker👍 top work Martin
I don't want to throw any more money at it though.
Hello, I have a problem, I have a Peugeot Speedfight 1 100cc that recently seized up/heat seized. It was not tuned. I then changed the cylinder, piston etc. It now starts up right away, but after a while it dies all of a sudden (as if you had turned off the key) and then I can start it right up again, this usually happens when I go over 60 km/h or uphill.
When I changed the cylinder etc, I also cleaned everything thoroughly, such as the carburettor, intake, new air filter, new fuel filter (there was no fuel filter before) new spark plug. I also removed the oil pump and put a metalplate with a gasket over the hole instead, I now mix the oil directly into the gasoline.
Some other info that might be important.
- When I drive over 60 km/h, it starts to make a noise from the variator (CVT), it´s sounds quite a lot.
- When it died, I tried to start it again while it was rolling and then it started right away, but it made a noise from the variator, like something "let go" that had been seized up, like a rubber sound, maybe from the belt.
- The variator belt touches the variator cover on the inside and has grinded a cut in the metal.
- In the variator, where the weights are, the belt does not go down to the bottom of the wheel.
- The clutch bell had turned blue from the heat.
- The place where the connecting rod attaches to the crankshaft had turned blue from heat.
- There was no fuel filter on it before. But i now saw there is an internal fuel filter in the gastank, can it affect the vacuum if you now have 2 fuel filters.
Please help me.
Regards
Andree.
Try and lift the main carb needle up one groove by dropping the clip.
@@retrorestore Ok, but it worked before and i have not change anything in the carb. I took it for a testdrive today and after a while it stopped, so i removed the variator cover to check how it looked and the axle where the weights are that goes into the engine was stuck, so i turned it a bit and it let go, and after it was a bit hard to start again.
What could this be? I checked the fuel line and the vacuum valve that goes into the gastank and they worked, if it was some bad bearings in the engine would that be enough to stop the engine while running? If it would be some bad bearings wouldn´t that just like vibrate a bit more, and not stop the engine all toghether.
Could something in the engine have taken damage when it heatsized? If so what is the most likely to have taken damage.
@@NorthSurvival Its very hard for me to say without actually seeing it bud. Sorry I can't be more helpful.
@@retrorestore Hello again, today i opened the cylinder to check, and there was scratches in it, not deep, i could see them but not feel them. So that must have been why it was stuck after it stopped.
Does this mean that the crank or bearings are bad? I don´t know what else it could be. Like i said before, i now use premixed fuel with 3% oil, and i have checked the vacuumtap that it worked, i have removed the extra fuelfilter, the carb is cleaned and has the right size jets. It has new airfilter and sparkplug.
I saw now that the scratches are pretty wide, one is like in half the cylinder, almost like the pistonring itself has made the wide scratch, could i have stretched them to much when i installed the cylinder?
Hy Martin, I'm from Germany. I have r50x and goes 80km/h on the flat road. With 63.000 km driving. I change gear oil 2 times and always put in Castrol 2t oil.Filters and spark plugs when needed. I watched when you were restored yours. And I don't know where is the problem 🙄👀🤔
Thank you, that's a good speed.
Has I mentioned before I know nout about bikes , don’t know that’s it’s top speed or is there a restricor on it ? That jumping about speedo as stopped 👍👍
Patio look amazing Martin 👍👍👍👍
Def wants a new variatior will make a massive difference in my experience. Just fitted a malossi and new belt to my sh125...the difference its made, mind you I was going after acceleration.
I remember the piaggio NRGs arc we used to ride would reach around 65/70 derestricted or with a 70kit and final drive gear up kit. It could well be the final drive on the TGBs are only geared for a low top speed. Might be worth seeing the dimensions and differences of a tuning / after market performance variator
At 11:04 when it starts up the exhaust comes out of 2 places, maybe that has something to do with the top speed? and try to modify the airbox to only thing left thats restricted maybe it will launch off xD love the moped vids
Air box is probably restricting it . The normal restriction to keep them down to 28mph is cdi Rev limiter , obstruction in exhaust , and air flow restricted through the air box . If you remove the restriction in the air box you might need a bigger main jet than the one you have fitted.
I know this old now but next time look at the clutch yours looks new you can see it's not rubbing all round so what you do is get a bit of sand paper but it a round the inside of the clutch cover put back on work the scooter so wearing in all the way around and way you go good one.
Run your video at high speed make the bike go faster. What grade of fuel. Try premium or mid may be an effect.
jeez that thing should be flying
A shame its not a GY6 lump, those are epic for turning into mini race machines, think a 181cc conversion is silly money and if you want to go with a bit o' water cooling a 250/300cc kit gives you a ton of power but still on the original 125cc engine. I am still looking out for the Vespa small block 225cc kits we were promised a few years back, alongside the 200cc to 300cc conversion kits for the large PX motors. The small block basically converted any 125/150cc Vespa into a 225, serious power on a 2 stroke lol Most insane was the twin cylinder Lambretta motors, in the right hands was a ton up engine and getting to the 100 mark super quick too :D
I think change the spring,and from when I had a moped years ago,I changed the exhaust to aftermarket and had to change clutch rollers and re jet the carb.
For maximum speed the belt needs to travel to the largest outer on the front variator and the smallest inner part of the rear cluch side but the engine must be powerfull enough which you seem to have enough revs. Check the belt travel and try a softer spring
Any way of checking if the speedometer is correct ? ( without getting a ticket ) ….brilliant ongoing content….you normally find a solution…good luck Martin …regards to all the family…Peter P
if you get it on a stand and rev it and see how much it revs if it revs over 10k its not cdi restrected. and genraly you do want hever weights to eg a higher top speed but its worth trying out 6g with a lighter contra spring hope this helps
You need the light spring and heavier rollers lighter rollers for acceleration heavier for top end, your heavier spring will have the oppo effect
Love the vids matey where did u get the grandad t-shirt from if u Don't mind me asking
It was a gift, I don't know, sorry.
I had a Yamaha aerox and had a slight crack in exhaust. Made it run crap. So hopefully when you get the gasket replaced it may up the speed
Smaller cog at the front would be my best guess sorry don't know much about these
Fit the white spring , see if it makes a difference Martin ,
Should the exhaust be leaking from the connection into (presumably) the intake?
@11.06
It needs a new gasket.
Hi Martin, lighten the load pal,not being funny as I'm same load as u ,take care and loving the channel.
I was thinking that too Jim
Put the white spring in. Don't take long least can see if makes any difference ☺️👍
I'll be trying that
I recon they were going down a 1 in 3 hill with a sail up and the wind behind them Martin
Not got a clue thumbs up Martin
I was thinking about the rear spring, on a mountain bike the smallest rear gear gives you top end , try the softest spring and the front sprocket is the smallest too for top end. So surely and ideally you need the belt at the thinnest parts of each variator.
Does that make sense anyone 🤷♂️
Good video tho Martin 👍🇬🇧
As you saw, The rear pully was reaching full out by the pen mark and the front was right in which should give top end.
@@retrorestore it’s definitelyworth fiddling with if and when you get time 👍
did you say your running an 85 jet? is that a standard 50cc cylinder because if so im running the same engine with standard intake and exhaust on a 62 jet which is perfect on my set up. I would expect something in the range of 58 to around 68 on a standard set up and 70 - 78 on a 70cc kit (assuming your running stock exhaust and air box) then you start going higher when you start fiddling with the exhaust and airbox (airbox makes the biggest difference to jetting) if it runs good then fair play but just sounds a bit too rich to me might be loosing a bit of power
Great Vid Martin 👍
Thanks 👍
Malossi who made their fame and name on tuning parts for old Vespa's and Lambretta's did do some bespoke kits for 50's and 125's as a good while back a neighbours lad asked me to fit a Malossi kit to his 50cc and it had the clutch "stones", a competition belt and a more aggressive profiled pinch roller and OK with delimiting it only pushed on thrash about 35-37 but it got there much much quicker. Had twin coiled springs in pack too which were a bugger to fit lol Kiddie ended up stacking it up the wrong 'un of a truck, lad was alright but the bike was toast.
I had a malossi 70 kit on my gillera runner and it did 60MPH
Did you widen the snorkel on the airbox coming in the old tgb 50cc that used a copy yamaha engine they had restricted it by having a small intake snorkel and when de restricting them this needed honed out by a good cm or 2 hope you got it sorted
For me mart I had 3.5 & 5.5 mix them mate half & half & make sure the restricter ring is out of the exhaust with 3rd clip inside the carb pin
I removed the restrictor ring from the exhaust. I'm on the 3rd clip too but I will play a bit more with the wrights.
retrorestore yes mate definitely rollers there’s a brilliant forum when I done my Yamaha aerox managed to get 50mph out of it but it did involve mixing two different roller sizes because I believe the lighter ones are for Acceleration heavier top end so the mix is best of both bud, fun little machines to nip out on absolutely costs nothing,
Try the site spring Martin, it might be alot faster with someone maybe 12 stone etc good video mate you seem down mate 👍👊
I will check it out, I'm fine Steve.
That's good 👍
Downhill with the wind behind you i reckon 35 plus lol.
Nice job
Nice gaff
Great vid 👌 👍
I remember people playing with them like this at college trying to beat each other
The white spring and 4.5G rollers could be the answer.
Could be the plate behind the weights ? They come in different angles. If the angle is too small the weights are never able to push the primary sheeves together fully and the belt never reaches the outher edge.
belt looks well stretched should be a lot tighter than that.maybe try a new one
It is a new one
Heavier weights = tries to move into a higher gear with less rpms
Stronger spring = resists the belt moving down the groove (which it does because the weights push the belt to the outside of the variator)
Difficult to tell from the video, but when the variator is open and the belt is running as far up the rear pulley as it will go, does the belt seem tight?
I'll have to check
Martin You did ask if you have any idea's , I think the problem with some makes of 50cc scooters only had set gearing to reach max speed at a set rev's like 9000rpm is set at 35mph max if you get another 1000rpm you may get another 5-10mph if your lucky.changing springs and weights only make it get to 35mph quicker holding revs longer as belt moves adjusting revs at the correct time.
Piaggio based 50cc scooters have restrictions but had better gearing so can reach 50+mph and not much more unless you gear up in the gearbox.
Some scooters chinese based had restricted CDI units ,You can buy unlimited but risk on engine damage.
The exhaust is holding it back also as its standard,does gary have a exhaust that would fit you could try ? They do make street legal race exhausts.
I have a gilera runner 50 with polini corsa barrel which is supposed to be 11hp with correct exhaust pipe, but unless you change the gear in the gearbox it won't have a higher top speed than 50ish mph but gets there very quickly.
A 60cc kit will only give it more power not change the gearing in the gearbox also when i have change things you have to give it time to bed in and settle.
After all this did you just want it reliable just to have fun ,people waste lots of time and money trying to get that extra 5-10mph.
Hope this don't sound like i'm having a go but i have done exactly what your doing now with a chinese scooter and piaggio it will drive you crazy keep changing things and sometimes makes it worse .
I've already filmed the next vid coming out on Wednesday but I'll be doing one more after that fitting the white spring and 3 gram weights
If it’s a 2 stroke just take off the head and grind out the ports both inlet and exhaust then see how fast it goes
Won't make a difference to the gearing m8
68main jet
32-34 pilot jet
Needle clip in middle
Derestricted exhaust
Polini varistor
Stronger clutch springs
4.5g rollers
Bike should do 55mph easy
👍
Don't no much Martin seen some vids on them has it got a ECU on near battery? seen some cut that pink wire just a thought Martin good luck 🤞
You need an aftermarket variator with more range
Just had a quick look martin online, Taiwan TGB original size is Belt L-749 w-16.5.worth checking as I've seen loads online in varying sizes also! Hope its a simple fix im sure it will be that engine is ready to go from what Ive seen.
Hi. What stops the belt from running to a larger diameter on back pulley. Is there a limiting spacer between the pulleys. I've never tinkered with these. Great vids.
Sorry smaller diametet
Perhaps changing the belt and pulley
Set up....? Port and polish......?
I don't want to throw any more money at it though.
open air filter and bigger
exhaust
Nice try Martin, I suppose it is what it is.👍
need to but the softest rear spring in , also is the belt new ? reason being the thickness of the belt can make a drastic difference to top speed . i've been a bike tech for 30 years so I'm not talking out my arse lol.
Belt is new. There are 2 more vids already filmed, Keep tuned to see the results.
Did you end up finding away to make it go faster? I have one also and struggling to find what else to do
Got it to 41mph. Its sold now
Mite need a new belt as well , I no the belts stretch after some time , I changed my belt on my honda sh125 about 6 months ago and it made a lot of different in the amount of power I had pulling away , I needed a variator locking tool to change the weights that I didn't have and ended up braking the variator.
Its a new belt
On ebay they do a tecnigas next r exhaust that will onlock a lot of speed
Don't want to spend more on it.
Maybe try removing the washer from the Variator some times that Restricts the speed
There is no washer
Try the lighter spring
Mart, stick Jimmy on it and it'll fly mate .. !! 👀🛵
I was thinking of that too lol
On my cagiva Mito to de restrict it it needed a larger air box snorkel for more air to the carb wonder if that’s a issue ?
Hi Mart it looked like you had a little blow in the exhaust too
Yes i've ordered a new gasket
Put softer spring back in
I could try the white one.
Martin, are you 101% sure the belt is correct? It did look a bit slack, also, did you further tighten the large clutch nut you used the adjustable spanner on ? if not very tight they can and do come undone,
I normally gun them up with 1/2 in impact gun.
I replaced the belt with one the same size for a TGB R50X but I don't know for sure.
@@retrorestore
Martin, it’s obviously difficult to tell watching the video so I can only say it does appear very slack, normally when the casing comes off the belt is quite taught ( I’ve recently retired after many years running a scooter shop ) not claiming that the belt is the problem but double check, also could it be possible the previous owner has messed about and put in the wrong variator ? I’ve seen some weird stuff when youngsters have “tuned” engines 😁
Don't know if u notice but it has a slight exhaust leak
Yes it needs a new gasket
Use a more free flowing air filter....
Install a more fre flowing exhaust...
2 stroke has not got valves .have you tried the reed valves
I don't want to throw any more money at it though.
@@retrorestore I cant say I blame you...36 mph isn't bad for a 50cc !
Good for tooling around..
Only way to get that going quicker is a derestricted sports exhaust Leo Vince or something
Does the restriction happen in CDI unit?
On other mopeds if you replace the CDI unit you can get a increase in speed
I've fitted a derestricted cdi
@@retrorestore
Is there a restricting washer where the exhaust bolts to the motor? If there is either remove it or drill out the hole to a larger diameter.
@@sprograt I've already removed the restrictor.
martin,when i tuned mine i had a quiet word with the exhaust,it done 48 with me on it,i"m 16st
Put a nitrous kit on it and hold on tight!
Need a racing cdi box bud look like it's restricted might have to snip a wire if not change the cdi box to a Chinese gy6 racing cdi okay then you will have full speed 👍
I fitted an unrestricted cdi bud
👍👍
Are u gonna be doing the new log cabins this summer?
If I can
Maybe the centrifical clutch in the rear wheel is slipping
Its a new clutch
My scooter is restricted electronically put a proformance cdi box on it
I would try and run it with out the silencer and just make sure that is not holding you back , as my brother years ago had a Peugeot with a 75cc kit on no word of a lie did yes 90mph. I know I followed him not sure.what other mods where done as he did buy it like.it 😀
I don't want to throw any more money at it though James.
Try a new belt might be worn thin or stretched abit ither way it would go slower might even be the wrong belt or it might be slipping get a Kevlar performance one .
It is a new belt
Did you change the cdi for a deRestricted one cos if its still the original one then it will be restricted
Yes I did
@@retrorestore OK cool mate
New sports exhaust should fly then
I don't want to throw any more money at it though.