Using Apple Pay On the Underground
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Apple Pay has arrived, and among other things, it lets you tap in and out of tube stations and London buses, using your iPhone or Apple Watch. Sounds nifty, but how does it work in practise?
We found ourselves a volunteers who's already using Apple Pay on both his watch and his phone, and got him to give us a demonstration.
The results were interesting: although they had their benefits, we found flaws with both devices. Watch the video to find out what they were.
It would've been useful for newbie London travellers if this video had explained that you need to use the same device to tap in/out at both ends of the journey. You can't start at point A and tap in with your phone, and then tap out with your watch. So you should make sure there is plenty of charge on whatever device you use.
+MarkPMus That's true. The gates still open, but it fines you for not tapping in (and/or out).
R
MarkPMus Ij
Easier to keep your oyster card in your phone case, no worry about battery running out, no fumbling with finger prints.
Peter Griffin During the enrollment process for Apple Pay for a particular device, the bank generates a new virtual card number for that device - the device does NOT use the actual card number of the card. So this means your iPhone and watch each have a different virtual card number, and the merchant never actually sees the full “true” card number (the bank figures out how to match it to your card account). My assumption is that they Oyster system uses the tapped card number to identify you both when tapping in and out. So if you tap in with one device and tap out with another, Oyster has no way of knowing that those two virtual cards actually map to the same card account.
Just like the Apple Watch, you can open Apple Pay on iPhone, then scan your fingerprint beforehand and tap at the gate.
Yhtdrcfifth trr
Xa, touch ffft
I bought my watch specifically for contactless payments on the bus or tube. It makes life so much easier. So many other benefits too. I can take the bus to the park, go for a run and measure/time/track it on my watch as I run through the park back home. So easy.
Watching from 2020 anyone else?
Nah. 2021
@@MsEdy09 same bro
Nah 2022
2 years later
2022
Got this recommended in 2021.
"Are people really going to use their phones and watches instead of a contactless card."
I answered 'yes' at the same time as Jonathan said it too
In Saint-Petersburg there is only two gates at each end of the gateline that accept bank cards including Apple/Google/whatever pay, and there is always a huge que of people straggling to tap in with they "smart" devices at these gates...
you know you can pre authenticate your fingerprint so it's just as fast as a card, right?
@Aurelius even with FaceID you can pre authenticate
@Aurelius well idk about you but I don’t wanna be seen standing in a busy station lifting my phone up to my face, wait for it to authenticate and then tap it on the reader
@Aurelius fingerprint is better
I use it and its perfect.
and now this is the standard, how time flies.
Standard for the most part. There's still a few places where I have to use my regular card or cash.
Living in Brazil, it works great here in shops etc. Can´t wait to come back to London, to use it there on the underground!
You can authenticate your finger before approaching the gate. At the lock screen, double press the home button, then scan your fingerprint or enter your passcode. You can now simply bring the phone to the reader without any delay.
02:09 I think he meant "fewer" oyster cards.
oh wow, i just can't wait to be stuck behind a queue of people struggling to use their iphone to pay
I understand that this can be problematic in the terms of a smooth commute, but you are sacrificing that 1 second for much better overall security. And after all, public transportation isn't really what Apple pay was meant to be used for, everywhere else it's very smooth and quick. And I bet Apple is going to improve it soon.
I just found out that Apple is also developing a way to fix this problem, They are making it so you can pre-authenticate it by double clicking the home button, select the card and use touch id. And then when you are up in line you can just hold it over the terminal and it will go much quicker, since it is already authenticated. I'm pretty sure this feature is coming out in iOS 9.
***** You don't need to do anything but hold the botton without pressing while the phone is sleep. It cuts down time an steps.
+James Kim it How is it not fast and simple? It's exactly that, I don't know what you mean by too many steps as well? There is only two steps, put your finger on the Touch ID sensor and hold it near the terminal, done. And I suppose you have never done the double click gesture. But it's extremely fast and still only consists of two steps, double- click the home button, (and it automatically brings you to your default card) and then put your finger on the Touch ID sensor and hold it near the terminal. How can it get simpler than that?
+burnzy3210 It's new technology bro, don't hate.
Thanks for the advice I was able to use my watch to pay for a journey. Saved me from paying for an Oyster card
Oh dear, another solution in search of a problem.
Chris Stephens Oh dear, another commenter in search of a reader who gives a fuck.
Clearly you do, thank you.
Well isn't that how life works? We all seek solutions but there is always a problematic outcome after some time. Same thing with credit cards, credit cards were made to prevent your cash from being stolen and to solve many other problems. But now we have the problem of fraud. And which Apple pay with its massive layers of security are trying to eliminate, and now chip and pin/emv standards are being applied in America. So everything ha a downside but as long as there are more upsides, it is considered innovation.
The first question you should ask with any innovation is "what problem is this the solution to" the next thing to remember is that change for changes sake is not a valid reason and only leads to "keeping up with the Jones' (bad)". I find an Oyster card (60+) is quite adequate enough for the task in hand and effectively fraud free to boot..
Well, Apple didn't have public transportation in mind when they created Apple pay. It's really meant for shopping and security on that side, rather than quickly going through queues. Still, Apple pay is incredibly fast when authorizing a purchase. So I do not believe that this is "change just for change's sake" I believe this will actually relieve much credit card fraud and introduce new ways we think about technology.
This makes me proud using transportation in Japan
Tourist here. I'm glad I can just use my phone's Apple Pay. If you are concerned about security, then know this: each time an Apple Pay transaction is made, it provides a random-generated card number that links to the actual card that you are using. Does your Oyster card or Credit/Debit card's chip do that?
wow...awesome!! just only five seconds?!
Meanwhile in the Netherlands, paying with your bank cards in PT will only be launched in summer 2022. Worst of all it is presented as 'a great innovation which we must test intensively to make sure it works well' 🙄🙄🙄.
Also no Express Mode support yet, so we are still going to lag behind.
The great thing about this is that it's exactly the same technology that Android pay uses; I often use my phone to get around the tube, and I'm an Android user. The difference is that you can unlock an Android phone to prepare it for payment BEFORE you get to the barrier, and then it's as quick as a card.
You can do that on an iPhone too, when this video was made Apple were running iOS8. Since iOS9 onwards, you're also able to prepare a phone in advance of the Oyster barrier (or any payment terminal).
And now you all these years later, you don’t need to do anything, just wave your phone over without any fingerprint or face authorisation. Called Express travel
*WHY AM I WATCHINGGG THISSS*
Just scan your Touch ID a few seconds before you reach the gate.
Slowly!
Best Japanese Suica.
And Hong Kong Octopus (debut in 1997 before Suica).
The guy at the end stated that people "get a real-time alert on their phone". But you don't, because your payments aren't taken by TfL until the end of each day.
+bugmancx Heya, that's not quite correct! wIth Oyster ALL the processing is done at the end of the day. With contactless, the best price to pay is worked out during the day as you travel AND THEN deducted at the end of the day. But during the day, you can go into your account on the contactless/Tfl website, and see how much you've been charged so far and for what journeys on that same day.
This is great new for tourists, I can now jet over to London and use my iPhone to pay for everything - no more having to buy and Oyster card, having my credit car calling up because it sees a transaction in UK .... great news and remember that the UK has the greatest adoption of contactless in the world so I can use it everywhere. And yes, of course I'm not thick, I will have a backup credit card and some of that now depreciated currency :)
Are they trying to get rid of the oystercard? Also it takes ages for the phone to open the barrier, oyster and contactless are much quicker.
I doubt that as people like me who are android users and it will be unfair advantage for people who can only get Oyster cards
+Karthic Durai Well, Android Pay is completely comparable to Apple's solution, should work with minimal modification
yes but i have google wallet and wish it worked in uk, might have to go to ios just for apple wallet
WollyhoodStudios
Karthic Durai I'm talking about Android Pay, the new app that's coming from Google in a few days. It works very similarly to Apple Pay.
I agree
Yeah it works well, if I haven’t got a travel card I use it over a contactless card because it’s quicker to get
Alternatively, get a phone flip case with card pockets and put the Oyster card in that slot. Chances are, most would be using their phones while walking so you don't need to fumble around for the card. Also, you won't forget to bring your Oyster Card along since its with your phone.
Although using your phone on the Underground is a terrible idea anyway, particularly at peak times. As for the idea of paying with your phone, all I ask is one question: do people like being crushed between other people and the gates?
The problem for foreigners is that the currency conversion rates are unfavorable. It's more cost efficient to get an Oyster card and only pay the conversion charge when you refill its value vs paying a conversion for each transaction.
My card has no conversion charge so....🤷♂️
Well it depends on the card you use and what money you use to top up your oyster and conversion fees are generally charged as a percentage, so if you use contactless or your phone to pay, you only convert exactly how much you need and getting cash from currency exchange offices generally doesn't give you a very good rate
I'm sure you can double tap the home button in iOS8 to bring up the cards before you get to the reader.
This may be an iOS9 feature but it allows you to have your card ready for contact so it's just as fast as using an oyster card👍🏽
***** It is an available feature in the iOS9 public beta.
Double tap the side button on iPhone X and newer.
@@jacksonskyline Express Transit mode, phone on pad.
Pretty annoying that Android incorporated NFC capabilities soo long ago, yet when Apple joins the race, everyone rushes to add it to their system.
Wish you could pay with Android is what I'm trying to say...
Mrpepsi320 That's cos android is a piece of shit and insecure. Only apple products are worth buying. This is one of the reasons why.
Mrpepsi320 Don't worry, it was on Android before iOS. EE's app has had it for a while: ee.co.uk/help/add-ons-benefits-and-plans/contactless-payment/cash-on-tap/cash-on-tap-on-the-tube
RaviC Lmao EE.
***** I had an iphone 6. I got rid of it because of the shitty battery life and ridiculous bezels and got a Z3C.
Mrpepsi320 Google Wallet uses MSD contactless which won't even work in an EMV country like the UK. Very short sided on Googles part and very half-assed as well. Android Pay will fix these problems but for now, Apple's the only one with full implementation.
You can register your thumb a few seconds in advance and just tap in at the barrier. Way faster.
1:23 you can double click the home button whilst the phone is locked and it will bring the card up before you get to the reader, although it won’t work if your phone is in use and unlocked
You can double tap the power button on FaceID based iPhones from anywhere and it'll bring up the Apple Pay/Wallet thing. It doesn't need to be from being locked. I'm not sure how it works on TouchID based iPhones as I've not used one for a while. I vaguely recall being able to do it the same way on my iPhone 7 though (the double tapping of the power button) but may be wrong. Like I said, it's been a while since I've used anything but FaceID!
@@TalesOfWar I have an iPhone 7 and you simply double tap the home button when it’s locked but on my Apple Watch I double tap the side button whether it’s on or not and it’ll work
Here's a way to use contactless on a phone: get a case, and put your bank card under it. Works like a charm, and doesn't rely on your phone having a charge to function
Oh yeah! And less card clash!
I've barely seen anyone use Apple Pay instead of Contactless.I'm gonna stick with my oyster
Sucks to be you.
Haha I'm left handed and have my watch on my right wrist.
Roosevelt Scaggs III me too. Xxx
Just saw this and oddly enough I'm ambidextrous with a tendency to use my right more and I wear my watch on my right wrist as well. Cant stand wearing my watch on my left, just doesn't feel right
haha i’m right handed and wear my watch on my right wrist
It begins.
Just get your Apple Pay ready before you get to the gate
Or Samsung Pay.
If your watch or phone battery dies, what happens? let's say the station has no customer service assistant. Are there sockets for charging?
Then you need to use your contactless bank card ;) I assume if you use contactless on your phone you probably have/own the (same) contactless bank card too :)
I'm not from london so I can't help with that :p
You have to use the same device to touch out with that you touch in with. For example you can't touch in with a card on your phone and then touch out with the same physical card. This is because the card on your phone is a virtual card with a different card number, this is for security reasons. The simple answer is that when you touch in make sure you have enough battery to last until you touch out :)
I carry around little Pocket Battery Bank with me in my bag they are quite cheap to buy and handy to charge other devices too.
and that moment when your phones dead and you are broke for the next few hours
Surely it's easier just to scan your card
James Tilsley there's the additional step of opening your wallet and fumbling around for your card, then putting it back into the card slot and closing your wallet in addition to taking your wallet out and putting it back
With Apple Pay, you only need to take your phone out and put it back. When you're in a busy throng of people heading for the ticket barriers, I can see the appeal of using the simpler Apple Pay
It's even easier with a watch where it's simply double clicking the button and then touch. Also because the gates and validators accept both Oyster and Contactless, you need to take out the card you wish to tap prior to tapping otherwise if you tap your wallet, the reader doesn't know which card you wish to scan and can read the card you don't wish to use (ruclips.net/video/Y8S9nadeH_k/видео.html ).
I prefer the paper tickets as I had problems with the oyster card and if the magnetic strip doesn't work you still can use the transport system. if contactless or the oyster card system is having problems you can have a fight on your hands with TfL to get refunded.
With contactless, you register on the website and if you've ever forgotten to touch in/out, you can tell the system yourself - online, apply for a refund and get it. No fuss, no need to call and speak to someone, no fight. It's brilliant.
hfj3
hfj3
i wish i could add oyster to mehn applepay
With regards to reader being on right hand side and watch on left hand side, this is actually the easiest way to scan. The contortions to hold the watch to the reader if it was on your right hand would be very awkward. The next stage in wearables will be the iRing. That would be good for your right hand to make payments.
It's quicker using Samsung pay as you just use your fingerprint before you tap then you have 30seconds to tap and it's as quick as anything else
He have stopped in front of the ticket gate, I laughed aloud.
This is a problem with the current gates from Cubic Transportation Systems, transponders and readers using ISO 14443 and MIFARE over Sony #FeliCa.
I use Apple Pay all the time except on the Tube because my parents pay for my oyster credit so I use oyster 😂
8 years later - I no longer use a oyster card, I just use my phone.
Do you have to tap out with the iPhone? How do you do that?
Yes you have to tap out with the phone. You can turn on express transit so you don’t have to double tap the power button to pay, it just pays automatically as soon as you tap in and tap out
Regarding the delay on the phone, if running iOS9, you can prepare the phone by double clicking the home button in the lock screen which launches the "hold phone near reader" screen before you even get to the reader, just like on the watch. I'd be interested to see the time difference between the way shown in the video and the "preload" method. Here's a video explaining what I mean. ruclips.net/video/3WyY35gMqj4/видео.html
The rush hour wait to get through the barriers is about to get a lot more lengthy.
Bad enough already just with the tourists who don't know how to operate the gates.
Hashterix Haha. I'm sure some of them troll, though. I recently saw a few sly looking tourists looking quite pleased with themselves when they got yelled at for standing on the left of the escalators. ;-)
What do you do if a ticket inspector wants to check if you have a valid ticket?
This is really usefull
One thing to carry and safer than pay pass debit cards
2020?
I'm just waiting for Android Pay to reach the UK.
Not less! Fewer!
Would've come in handy last weekend, returning home ran out of Oyster credit, nowhere to top up/withdraw cash and the strip/chip on my Visa malfunctioned..even if not adopted as primary tfl payment Apple Pay is at LEAST good back up to have. Cards can and do wear.
“...less Oyster Cards...”
Fewer.
a lot of people use phone cases, why not just put the contact-less card in-between the phone and the case?
1.10 about double tapping is redundant as there express travel with apple’s integration
It’s Simple. Safe. And Available Almost Anywhere You Can Swipe Or Tap Your Card.
SAMSUNG PAY works with almost all card readers...
In fact, it’s available in more stores than any other mobile payment method.
It’s easy for ANY customers to use: simply swipe, verify, hover and pay.
It’s super safe:
Samsung Pay works with both old and new terminals, including MAGNETIC STRIPE, NFC and EMV.
Samsung Pay uses digital tokenization, Samsung KNOX, and fingerprint authentication to provide secure payments. And, as terminals are upgraded to EMV, that security is leveraged too.
(I had iPhone 6S Plus and returned it for SAMSUNG GALAXY S6 EDGE Plus - Gold Platinum - that is way better looking and have much usable features than ANY iPhone, sorry Apple)
Have a great day to y'all
Unfortunately Samsung Pay is limited to the US and South Korea currently. Also, in the UK we use Chip and Pin technology and contactless (NFC) not the old Magnetic Stripe standard, so Samsung Pay would be just as useful as Apple Pay and bPay over here.
+Ramandeep Jassal I don't know how it is in the UK, but all chip and PIN machines in the US still have a magnetic stripe reader that works with Samsung pay fine, even if the card in Samsung pay had a chip originally. That is because Samsung worked with the banks on this one.
+RedLight GreenArrow GreenArrow Sadly, Magnetic Stripe Readers are virtually non existent in the UK as Chip and Pin Cards which replaced them have been in use for around a decade in the UK.
There are some exceptions such as some major hotels and Bank ATMs which still support the older technology for the purpose of tourists.
The way Chip and Pin cards work, means it is almost impossible for smartphones to support it in the way Samsung Pay supports Magnetic Stripe Cards, thus the rise of contactless payment in the UK.
In the case of Apple Pay, all cards (subject to support from the Bank/Building Society) can be used regardless whether they already support contactless or just Chip and Pin.
Support for contactless payment is already good in major cities across the UK but there is still a long way to go for merchants to upgrade their terminals to support limitless payments.
+Ramandeep Jassal Part of the reason we still have the reader are a few. Only about 75% of US cards right now have a chip in them (all my cards have a chip but one- Capital One). And then only large stores actually read the chip instead of the stripe (Walmart, Target, Best Buy, and several mom and pop shops that just got new machines). Some stores use the stripe only (hotels, car rental, and second and third class chain retailers). Low value transactions generally don't use the chip because "it takes too long" so they just swipe it. Conversely for some reason our train ticket machines use chip or contactless payments, which are at the most $8-$10.
On top of that store loyalty cards get swiped on the credit card reader by the customer, which virtually makes it impossible to get rid of the reader even if we were 100% chip enabled.
As you can tell the payments market in the US is too complicated. There should be no reason why some stores want me to insert my chip and some want swipe.
How far Tech has gone one day police will be using an app to detect Drugs.
"Fumble around in their wallet"? I don't know what the Oyster card is like, but the Presto card here in Toronto works fine without taking it out of the wallet. It's just as easy to get out your wallet as to get out your phone.
Travel cards in London also work just fine without taking them out of your wallet. I don't know what he's talking about. :/
Since TfL accept both Oyster and Contactless debit and credit cards, you have to separate the card you wish to tap from other contactless cards so the reader doesn't read the card you don't intend to use. If you tap your wallet with multiple contactless cards, the reader doesn't know which card you are scanning and could read the wrong card instead.
1:17 the solution to the problem is to have another sensor where you can tap in for left hand users.
Can I use my Us Cards in Apple Pay when I visit? My US Apple Pay already works at Starbucks and everywhere else. I heard you have trouble with certain US regular contactless cards on the tube however.
At 11 I can't get a bank card. I might get an Oyster.
SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW
"No, I meant Apple pay, as in the way Apple pay their taxes in Ireland?"
Rhys Benjamin No they use Potatoes and pots of gold in Ireland 🇮🇪
If that scanning was faster then I would use my phone but it's pretty slow.
yuck that delay, as slow as putting a paper ticket in
Apple Pay 💰
As long as fair doggers don't follow me through the ticket barrier I don't mind how a pay!
So what if you run out of charge whilst you're on the train?
+Partha Dey You're screwed... Solution, take a USB power bank with you...
Is always have spare money or my cards with me.
Thats almost happened to me before
Partha Dey just use the debit card you used to tap in
iPhones are really cool. 🙂
Omerhas Quinto you do know all phones can do this?
I don't see any benefit in using this over using my contactless card. Both live in my pocket.
And android phone as well
Stupid youtubers never acknowledge android.
Its not as fun as using an oyster i think. It kinda ruins the point of an oyster card if you ask me, and if everyone used iphones it would cause huge congestion at barriers at peak times due to the 1 second delay on the oyster pad.
I use Apple Pay on tfl whenever im down there, its great. Im moving to London soon, and I don’t plan on getting an Oyster Card, i’ll just use Apple Pay. I don’t find the delay to be an issue, especially if you just use Touch ID a second before you lower your phone onto the reader.
what happens if you use your mobile phone from oxford circus to liverpool street, then use you apple watch from moorgate to brixton - return journeys. Would you be charged more than the daily cap and will the daily cap be on your actual bank account or the method of payment used?
Face ID lot faster now
Use my watch to pay for everything
Now if we could just get the U.S to catch on.
Does it charge the savage price for a single journey, or the slightly lower Oyster Card price? (Sorry, having enjoyed Berlin's public transport system recently, it's difficult to feel good about TfL prices.)
You pay the oyster fare, which is about half as much as a paper ticket
改札通過が遅すぎﾜﾛﾀ
Just use the bloody contactless bank card and cut out the middle man.
Anyone can use that if you lose it. Apple Pay needs your print scan and the watch is on your wrist. You're not losing that thing lol
Fewer, not less oyster cards.
If you double click the home button while the phone is asleep Apple Pay will come up and you don't have to wait for it to turn on and scan your finger at the terminal, you just need to have it scan before you get to it.
Will they do Android/Samsung Pay?
Wrong. If you double tap as you walk up to the barrier it's ready to go and Is supper fast. You don't do the Touch ID when your at the gate but before
+Geofftech fair enough! I never used it before a few months ago
Too slow response time for using as the ticket... the people who are behind you will bump you!
+rereku49 non its reallyy not, you champaign problem child, it was less than a second delay
How is Apple Pay more secure if I need to give my card details? I just top up my oyster with cash, that seems more secure...
Ramuk Because Apple Pay doesn’t transmit your card number, expiration date - it uses a 1 time code. So if any hackers are nearby hoping to intercept the data, it’s unusable.
Hey everybody, look at my phone which I'm just going to hold here with just my thumb and fingers for a second, look! Totally can't steal this can you?!
wow thats cool
too slow to scan... better introduce Japanese NFC (suica for the underground).
You can run and scan a card without stopping!
That means TfL would have to swap out the current MIFARE technology with Sony FeliCa which the current contractor Cubic Transportation Systems do not make AFC equipment with FeliCa contactless readers. The reader would also have to be compatible with other smart cards including ISO 14443 Type A and B cards. The only European AFC provider as far as I know that makes AFC equipment with FeliCa is France-based Thales Group. A notable Thales AFC system with FeliCa in use today is Hong Kong Octopus.
kiki5melo Is it secure?
Octopus card in Hong Kong uses the same technology as Japanese smart card systems (Suica, PASMO, ICOCA, etc.) since 1997 and has never been successfully hacked. www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=euro.ecom.cmu.edu/resources/elibrary/epay/OctopusSecurity.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjF_9Czws_PAhUIyGMKHd0fBO8QFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNErChrX9iga9CKtJnP5rx9qxe20cg&sig2=z83kijIcYaX1_0HuMKuFdA
Oyster uses MIFARE. The original Oyster cards used MIFARE Classic which is why there were security issues with the 48-bit chip encryption. FeliCa on the other hand cannot be successfully hacked as most of the time, the technology is not at fault for security-related issues (Hong Kong Octopus card security: euro.ecom.cmu.edu/resources/elibrary/epay/OctopusSecurity.pdf).
Suica card is awesome... one of the best things about public transport in Japan / Tokyo
Is this how the tfl app works to??
I predict many a smashed iPhones as people drop them going through the barriers.
I still use my oyster as it's always in my pocket and I don't have to fumble around getting my contactless out of my wallet. Then there's putting the card back in the wallet which isn't always easy rushing through all the people, and I'm alerting pick pockets to where my wallet is, so Oyster is just easier for me.
TheLandOfJonny Hmm. If someone is clumsy enough to drop their phone at a barrier, they must drop their phone a heck of a lot. :P
I think I'll stick to using my Oyster card, I travel during the packed hours and having to wait for Touch ID verification's too inconvenient, especially when everyone yourself included is busy and in a rush!
Can I use Rakuten card(visa)？
I love using Apple Pay, but I won't use it on the tube. Simply because it's quicker and easier to use an Oyster card than wait for my fingerprint to be verified.