@@iconsting EXACTLY, he was the prototypical high IQ homeless guy, J-REG could be kinda like that but ARMED and dangerous giving whippersnappers relationship advice they cant even comprehend all over the MTA
I can't determine if this video made me smarter or instead if it gave me the sensation of making me smarter while actually making me dumber, like a bad-quality drug.
see also: the reason why griffin adventurezone stopped making vore jokes edit: well no the actual reason is that after his wife gave birth to his first child people were asking him on twitter if he was gonna eat it
This is how I understand it: Sincerity: "I'm not a furry" (true statement, no joke) Irony: "haha I'm a furry" (not a true statement which is the joke) Post irony: "haha I'm not a furry guys stop it" (true statement but with the appearance that I'm being ironic and I am a furry which is the joke) Meta irony: "guys I'm not a furry haha stop, Its not like a have a fursuit or anything guys stooop haha I'm not" (the truth of the statement is undeterminable bc of how many layers there are and at this point no one can tell if I'm a furry or not which is the joke)
My favorite use of meta-irony is calling myself a gamer. I'm actually pretty decent at video games, enjoy them and have some nice gear. I also like to mock the "gamer" culture, gamers rise up and whatnot. Most importantly, I consider myself neither being a gamer nor not being a gamer, i don't relate this term to myself at all, it has no meaning to me. There is no truth about me being or not being a gamer but it's both sincere and ironic at the same time.
I feel the same way-- in the same way someone is a "reader" or a "painter", I'm a "gamer", but I dislike the word and it how it unnecessarily associates me with this community. It's also a funny word when used by others, since everyone kinda hates it. So if I every say "bro you're a gamer? dude, same, us gamers have to stick together", I'm likely doing it with an inflection that makes it seem like I'm being ironic, and that I'm just using the word to be funny, but in reality, I do somewhat find the term an apt description of me since I do play games. It's truth in under an ironic layer. I think you fall in the same camp-- I don't think it's fair to say that "there's no truth about you being a gamer or not", I think it just means that it is true (to some extent, since there are multiple definitions), and you're using irony to cover it
How do you call using meta-irony post-ironically? As in, purposefully muddling the waters of your own pre-post-ironic discourse in order to make the listener think you're being post-ironic (which means the listener thinks that what you're trying to portray sincerely is true) but actually you are being ironic from the start? Using meta-irony to explain your post-irony is what you do Jreg. You try to explain something sincerely or sarcastically, but it doesn't really matter because at the end of the video you'll always add another layer anyways, in order to confuse the listener. Double the layers, double the fun.
The real gamer move is when the video slowly sheds its Layer 0 facade of sincerity, while simultaneously therein gaining +4 layers and jumping straight to Post-PostPostHyperMeta Irony
I greet my friend “hey how’s it going”, “oh it’s doing alright nothing crazy” he replies, we look each other in the eyes, pause for a moment, and then laugh. We were completely sincere, and it was funny. That is the level I’m currently at
One of my favourite employments of meta-irony is the "aggressive compliment", when you pay someone a (potentially) genuine compliment, but with a tone implying frustration, annoyance, anger, etc. "God, you're so fucking NICE all the time! You're compassionate and smart and MORE PEOPLE SHOULD BE LIKE YOU! UGH!" And the other person is just left feeling oddly slighted, but also thankful and their confusion makes for a good laugh.
@@sleepyhead1212 I think it depends on the interpretation. If the recipient is confused, the “truth” is not clear. Also, I’m some cases, one would say that in both admiration and frustration - you love them for those qualities, but at the same time are frustrated or even jealous that they have those characteristics. It’s would be post-ironic if it is in the end clear that it IS a compliment, and if it is understood the sarcasm was ironic.
It seems to me like irony evolves rather than layers itself. For example, if to take a phrase like "it be like that sometimes" to use in opposition to proper grammar or formal language, it would then be marked as ironic. It then evolves to post-irony when one starts uninronically using it because it's the phrase that best fits a given situation. These things evolve in a circular fashion rather than stay stagnant and distinctly layered.
Good point, using a layers analysis is just a way of describing what people might be getting at when they say "four layers of irony" or whatever. Post irony is a lot more like a cycle
@@ecogiko I don't know if you're trying to be sexist, ironically sexist, post ironically sexist, meta ironically sexist or post meta ironically sexist.
Bio Ico my bet is once even the normies come to understand meta-irony people will just call out the BS when they see it. Ever since I learned about meta-irony and post-irony in high school I really got disgusted by irony as a whole and really prefer just saying what I mean. Which is part of what makes Jreg's content so addicting to me, because his deft navigation of the various layers of satire and sarcasm is like taking drugs again after quitting.
I genuinely believe that Jreg is doing a very interesting and groundbreaking form of political and cultural analysis throughout his entire channel, and I also deeply believe he's never going to actually say that.
Whether he has a currently defined position or not, one thing that his content has done so far is make those whose head isn't too deep inside their own anus pause and think about their own position. He attacks every side, so that applies to everyone, which is a good thing and missing in all sides today. And I mean all sides, not just the traditional 2/4, cause those axes things are pure bs.
An Albanian man? I thought you were a myth. Good to know that there are people watching and basing their whole personality (Definitely by accident😏) on meta irony. I'm not much better though because I say that like I don't do the same thing. I'm not insane I swear.
Same. I didn’t even know. But now, as a fan of meta-ironic communication, I’d argue that it’s not about trying on worldviews or even just wanting a reaction. (As in trolling) -It gives you a layer of protection against getting a bunch of anon hate, whatever your opinion is. People start arguing with each other over what you mean instead of you. -It’s a power move. You start a conversation about a topic, but get to gauge others’ reactions, after which you can decide whether you want to express your genuine opinions, keep talking to some interesting people, just watch them debate, or laugh it off.
There exists a third layer: surreal irony The underlying argument is completely abandoned and the whole joke begins to be steeped in its complete absurdity Then you could go to a post-surreal irony where the surreal absurdity is satirized and you take the nonsensical messages of the work at face value and act as if they are legitimate
You forgot Superirony: A man marrying another man? Whats next, a man marrying his dog? Irony: Im anti-gay marriage Post-Irony: Im pro-martial bestiality Superirony: This is a shitpost Surreal Irony: No Patrick, marriage is not an instrument.
That's meta-irony. As i see it, meta-irony may also seem a reflection of the use of irony, or stepping into ad-absurdum. Examples would be deep fried memes and memes like "E" that are self-referential respectively.
Calling stuff cringy is becoming cringy to me so I started using it ironically and by doing this, I have encountered some interesting paradoxes and feedback loops.
I view meta-irony as a way to keep outsiders from knowing the joke or actual position of a person while insiders know the actual position of the person or as a way to signal I agree with this thought or idea while being able to deny it to others in case of negative repercussions
@@FinetalPies same idea but theres more room for deniability. Meta irony is like an invisibility cloak for the truth. You can reach for the cloak and you may reveal something, or you may reach for it and theres nothing there. It erases all traces of social accountability
its actually multi-ironic, in that he uses multiple different layers of irony at the same time. as he said somewhere in there, he always uses at least three layers of irony in his work.
Aczually not. Actually this whole thing was unironic. The ending is not ironc, as irony and several layers of irony are confusing. He shows that by being very confusing. That is coherence. No irony.
@@mylordandsaviour4786 see, I can't actually reliably say if you're being sincere right now. And to add some more fun, you like hell won't be able to tell if my lack of understanding is ironic or not Shit, I love 2020 already
Im litteraly so pleased someone is finaly talked about this, It's so prevelent and noone is talking about it and i feel like even most smart internet ppl dont understand that
If you dissect smth it dies. Doesn’t matter if it’s a frog or joke. And Pin Point the irony we use in memes or edgy jokes is pretty dame hard. I mean even jreg could do a whole vid without using irony. If we are completely honest you could write an PhD essay about this and even then we might be confused.
The reason i like meta irony is because it really is just saying words with no intended meaning behind it. So what its good at is making the reader or listener think for themselves about what is being said, rather than worrying about what the speaker is trying to say. Its like information without any human connection. Its like the abstract art of saying things. Youve gotta come to your own conclusion because whoever is telling you the info doesn't have any intended conclusion that theyd like you to draw from it and they dont even have a conclusion either.
Exactly! The point of meta-irony isn’t the “truth” or the “claim”; it’s the thought process the audience goes through. It’s confusing on purpose, in order to be thought provoking.
This reminds me of a time my friends and I did LSD and we kept making jokes and seeding them in jokes that came before. One way to look at it is that we continued to add layers of irony, but in reality, the layers only repeated themselves. But it's not like I actually did LSD with my friends or whatever.
He was a centrist who post-ironically radicalized himself to become an anti-centrist, and now he is an anarcho-nazbol with libertarian characteristics.
I love Jreg as a legitimate philosopher. And I mean it. Like,,, I actually mean it. Sincerely. Every time I clarify, it sounds like I'm being ironic. help.
Big Chungus Irony: Laughing at the fact big chungus was such an unfunny meme Post Irony: Laughing at the fact big chungus was such an unfunny meme so much, you start finding it funny unironically Meta Irony: Laughing at the fact big chungus was such an unfunny meme so much, you don't know if you find it funny unironically
Post-Meta Irony: Laughing at your own laughter because you unironically laughed at something that was originally ironically funny, and the fact that you would laugh at something so stupid is funnier than the original thing.
Got diagnosed with ASD few months ago, i now realize why my irony comes off as sincerity for some reason. I've been unironically subconsciously commiting the act of speaking post ironically despite the fact my intention was irony.
I have come to some conclusions about trying to be ironic or joke when falking to neurotypicals and would like to know if you agree: Neurotypical humor is very boomer like. Sounds Mean and plain to us. Just like we sound “rude” to them sometimes. People calm me rude and blunt (cause autistic) but also fun and witty (cause austistic). I am not that fun or inteligent, its just the neurospice 😎
Holy fast, that's actually a lot of sense. People have repeatedly, even _constantly_ assumed I've been sarcastic when I give an opinion straight up as zero. I am an autist too (Aspergers).
I've always referred to the internet as the 'largest and clearest mirror ever held up to the human race'. Post, meta, and every other kind of irony is the hall of mirrors effect taken to literal insane proportions.
One thing I feel intuitively is that generally the ego is "afraid" of layer 0, and that both layer 1 and layer 2 serve to distance the ego as much as possible from the pain and potential ego destruction of trying to deal directly with sincere reality. In the way that the previous generations replied sarcastically to not make themselves emotionally vulnerable, I see a similarity to how layer 2 allows an ironic portrayal of the sarcastic response which in and of itself is an ironic layer to sincerity. Both layers allow for the individuals sincere self-perception to not be easily challenged.
@@Ppman and the irony here is that he’s hinting at being a centrist in order to disguise that he is in fact an anti-centrist. We could keep going in circles forever.
I must say this was quite the informative video, but you missed the key concept of irony known as: "Schrödinger's meme". See, if a boomer posts something very unfunny, for instance, a minion meme, it has 0 layers of irony. However, if a dank meme page were to post the same minion meme, it would have anywhere from 2-4 layers of irony. Now, here is the conundrum. If you encounter a minion meme in a vacuum, and have no way to know what its origin is, you cannot know whether it was posted ironically or unironically. If it was posted by a boomer on facebook, it is unironic. If it was posted by a HIP COOL EDGY gen z meme page, it is very ironic. So until the source is known, it is both ironic and unironic.
Is it both or simply undeterminable, where the superposition of all possible irony levels is purely an imaginary concept that can be used to augment our perception of reality.
That's why the "text" has to provide context. I.e. the meme itself must convey at least a meta ironic tone. The irony has to be coded in. The most common example I can think of is the "deep fried meme". It can be a boomer meme verbatim but the jpeg degradation is a commentary on the normie boomer meme itself. Or maybe that's just regular degular irony. I don't fricken know. I'm very confused
@@mistersydster except those cases where the boomer meme became gen z meme, like the grill man saying “I just want to grill”, the text and the image are the same, in a vacuum you have no idea, you just have to guess
It’s new, whatever this is, we don’t have a word for it. And it’s not even any of that “post modernist” whatever-the-fuck-that-means stuff. It escapes definition, but that’s it’s goal is it not?
As a millennial 9th grade English teacher, "Oh shit, this is just dialectics for edgy teens!" is the greatest quote I've heard. I've been trying to understand where my students were coming from, and this is amazing.
I’m starting to think this channel may just be a documentary of how confusing the world is for young people currently They are pulled in a million different directions, everything is both a joke and extremely serious at the same time, everyone is bad and good, every world view is both uncomfortable and extreme, and we are exposed to enough information to find anything convincing. Jreg is a expression of the times and I think that in itself is of value to people.
My favourite act of Post-Irony was my friend eating Mountain Dew and Dorritos for the meme, then they started playing WoW and just kept eating Dorrito's and Mountain dew every day unironically.
Rai Pogonowski so could you say that post-irony is anytime when someone does something ironically, but then eventually starts doing it “unironically” and therefore post-ironically?
Mason Hunn it can be intentional, too. I feel like a lot of people are using it as a device to connect emotionally. For example... Layer 0, sincerity: “I feel horrible life is meaningless” Layer 1, sarcasm/irony: “YeAh HaViNg A gReAt FuCkInG yEaR” Layer 2, post-irony: “tfw you have clinical depression lmao 😂👌🏼🔥“
@@CoryFPS I have felt compelled to reply to this other reply, because I intended to call you out for making a reply I consider overused, but in the process I realized doing so is also overused, making the situation a mess of irony layers, and that's when I realized you had planned this the whole time, to send me into a downwards spiral of insanity as I stumble over countless layers of truth and lie. Alas, my only option is to applaud your inmense wit and creativity, being able to cause someone to make a short essay, with only 18 words and the click of one fateful button. Reply.
@@pablopereyra7126 The truth has set you free, for now. Greater illusions are afoot and hindsight is an after thought. Have fun-de-mentals look into Terrence McKenna. Happy New Year
A better example of post-irony: Literally any George Saunders story. Layer 0: Working class guy trying to support himself and/or family Layer 1: It turns out his job is some hilariously demeaning job (male stripper in a WWII aerial combat-themed club, playing a caveman in a live diorama, etc) and we begin to feel we are above the character Layer 2: The reader is forced to recognize the dignity-less protagonist's struggle as sincere and we ultimately empathize with their attempts to cling to hope in an obviously hopeless situation.
Fun fact, the end of the video, while seemingly completely random, is completely post-ironic. It could be taken as him just eating a bowl of cereal, but the way its filmed makes it seem intentional and planned, making it seem ironic, yet maybe he was actually just eating a bowl of cereal unironically, but just trying to hide that fact with a layer of irony, implying he also doesn't quite know if he's doing it ironically or unironically. This takes you through pre-irony, irony, post-irony, and meta-irony. Essentially if you couldn't follow anything else in the video, the end essentially sums it all up
12:58 he did it right there Layer zero: “Teachers and the academic world is too old fashioned and it doesn’t understand how young people behave and use irony” Layer one: “Your English teacher is a normie!” (when he uses the therm he wants to pass as some random dude on the internet and argues that your teacher would know better them him on the subject, therefore, a normie in his view) Layer two: He starts to develop the ironic persona to the point that he Post-Ironic’s it and now he is speaking what he really believes in Layer Zero Jreg, you are a genius of your art, please write a book about it, the academic world needs a new view in Irony and the internet
Irony: making fun of someone else's political opinions post-irony: making fun of your own political opinions meta-irony: making fun of multiple opposing political opinions simultaneously
pre-irony: saying what you mean irony: saying the opposite of what you mean in a funny voice post-irony: saying what you mean in a funny voice meta-irony: not knowing what you mean
the four prongs on the fork represent the four corners of a political compass. a spoon is round like a horseshoe, representing horseshoe theory. only centrists use spoons
@@mossmeow no dumbass, hes trying to be funny "you dont eat cereal with a fork!" While at the same time knowing his audience well enough that he knows they'll do an over analysis, thus epicly owning us
@@overtoast1105 Perhaps he holds the spoon in between the bowl and his hand to show the meta-irony surrounding the irony of his using a fork. He's showing us that he knows a spoon is the proper instrument, but chooses to fork it down his gullet. Wait, maybe that's just one layer of irony? Unless he actually... believes the fork is the correct tool and this is his way of using post-irony to come out of his shell?
Sincerity: Making fun of people who say "lit" Irony: Saying "lit" because its dumb and cringy Post irony: Starts saying "lit" out of habit Meta irony: When someone else says "lit", you say its cringe
Level 0 (honesty): 2013 doge meme Level 1 (irony): Ironic mid 2019 doge meme joking about how dead doge is Level 2 (post-irony): Modern late 2019, completely unironic doge memes (e.g. doge comic-esque story memes, cheems, etc.)
I guess I really just needed to hear that my English teacher is a normie. As for memes, I think I'll just stick with absurdism and keep my irony layer at a maximum of 1.5
The thing about these kinds of extreme irony humour, the ability to make them and understand them is not one learned through understanding these concepts, you don't "get" modern humour by watching this video, you just obtain the ability to tap into this humour either by being there for the slow satirification of the internet, or being thrown in the deep end like the younger newer members of the internet
I wonder how much of Jregs persona has spilled out into his social life and if he is so far beyond irony that he has forgotten his own worldview. And if this channel is his abyssal scream for help, shrouded by the fact that even he can't tell if he wants said help or not. Just me? Ok.
As with anyone who's ever ironically used some stupid slang and then suddenly realized that it had become a wholly unironic thing you actually say now, this must've absolutely spilled over into other areas of his personality and life. I don't think he doesn't know what he genuinely thinks anymore, but it must've had influence.
when my friend hates religion and gets into reading tarot cards as a joke but is actually a gifted reader because of early childhood abuse at the hands of the anti-tarot church and because he's an aquarius
@@johnjohnson3681 This comment section is shit. The video makes people aware of irony and makes me read every comment through that lens. Actually, I really enjoy that. It's not shit, it's gold.
Y'know, I imagine that Jreg would be a fascinating person to actually talk to, but, alas, his shtick is this metaobscurantism. Entertaining, indeed; artistry that should be more appreciated, definitely; genuinely thought-provoking, depends on the video, but often I find myself just wanting him to talk longer and more in-depth about these ideas that he may or may not have. In short, hearing his possibly-mad ramblings for a couple hours would be quite the positive experience.
"Because, ya know, edgy teens especially, they just... they wanna say stuff... to see how it feels -- to see how it sounds... coming out of their mouth. That's how they explore ideas -- that's how they try on world views, like gloves." When you grow up knowing that anything you say can come back to haunt you, you need plausible deniability while you try ideas out. They can't just say stupid shit around their friends, forget about it, and end up keeping the ideas they like. The internet never forgets, and never forgives. they must never leave evidence that they thought the wrong thing at some point.
It's interesting what's being done to the English language now. During our grandparent's time, sarcasm was used sparingly. Nowadays I find that it's sincerity that is used sparingly. I actually have to focus to be genuine.
Snaek I find I have to repeatedly emphasize sincerity when conveying ideas to people. It’s as if the natural position of speech is irony, and sincerity is now the unique tool in dialogue.
@@IrateWizrd Yup, but that's the only way they can think freely; by obfuscating what it is they truly think. But more than that, they probably don't know what they think yet, and that's okay.
@@anthonywestbrook2155 definitely a bit of both. I think it's pretty unhealthy that the culture seems to make it difficult for people to figure out their beliefs over time, gotta be 100% "correct" or you're wrong forever.
Truth: Truth Irony I: Satire Irony II: Truth Irony III: Satire Irony IV: Truth If we think of irony as a cycle, then the third level of irony would be heading back to irony after exploring it. So I think it’d go like this: Truth: You look good Irony I: You look fucked up Irony Ii: wOW yo’RE Loooking fine Irony III: Bad Irony IV: (Stares while looking utterly disgusted) The truth gets so utterly fucked by the second time around that you can’t really explain it without it looking like insanity. At the third layer you’re satirizing satire, so you have to push past absurdity and then at for you have to go back to the truth, from something that you cannot really explain normally in the first place, So while a Layer IV irony conversation is technology truthful, it’d go something like this, (my brain is turning to mush while writing) Guy I: See the game Saturday Guy II: No Both: HAHAHAHAHA There was no game, and they’re both female... Meta-Irony is a cycle ender, or something you use when you wanna’ make sure nobody can track your original opinion, so that’s usually where it ends but if you push past Meta, you get something that I can’t explain and I won’t try to...
Sincerity = Speaking a Truth to communicate a Truth Lying = Speaking a Falsehood to communicate a Falsehood Irony = Speaking a Falsehood to communicate a Truth Lyrony = Speaking a Truth to communicate a Falsehood If you say something true in a sarcastic tone of voice, that's lyrony.
>sees Jreg overlapping himself to absurdity >goes to subtitles to see if anyone has decyphered his ramblings in a feeble attempt to understand it >Átkok, megint meghiúsítva
This channel is like watching a man on some form of meds talk coherently for the first half and then for the second half they run out and he starts having some kind of fit
Old Irony: The observations of my dissatisfaction are enough to satisfy me. Modern irony: The observations of my dissatisfaction allow me to disassociate from my own desire for things to be different. The more ways I muddy my own message, the less I'm able to feel any connection to my real emotions or motives behind the irony in the first place, the further I am able to disassociate from my own truth. Simply observing my own dissatisfaction is longer enough to satisfy me.
No joke, watching this video around when it came out helped me on my still ongoing journey to be less of a dumbfuck and get my life together. It got me to realize a bit more just how little I engage with the things I consume and how muddled their meaning was/is to me, got me to put more value on sincerity.
You articulate yourself very well, dude. Rare quality. And are witty as well, as you continue to clearly explain yourself. This video is genius. Big cheers and congrats.
The fact that you made this video makes my sociologist/anthropologist brain really fuckin happy because I've seen the evolution of memes since the beginning and it is amazing to be able to explain/learn about why
Sincere: I mourn the loss of the Byzantine Empire Ironic: wow gosh i sure do love being subjugated by the turks post-ironic: 1453 worst year of my life
@@alacastersoi8265 crying because you're a failure and no one really likes or supports you, knowing well that when you die everyone will occasionally forget that you were there in the first place and everything you did and suffered was in vain, but only ironically
@@DreadKiwi post ironic is when u dont take it seriously so much u r sarcastic entirely to ur kids growing up but they dont get it and believe it for real
Damn, I just realized I used meta-irony to stay closeted during high school. Every time my idiot friends asked me "Are you gay?", I don't wanna say no bcuz I know I won't come off as sincere. So instead I always answered "Oh yes of course tOtaLly" just to confuse them and make them shut up and stop trying to out me 😩
Thank you Jreg for constructing a framework for zoomers to try and understand their own irony. I think that's part of the appeal of your community, as well as the rest of the political compass-oriented communities like PolCompBall. I think/agree that meta-irony is commonly used by people online to try on worldviews that they don't hold as their core beliefs, but that they can easily slip into. e.g. National Bolshevism. Like the character said in centricide, it is not a contradictory worldview. I'd probably say it's actually one of the easiest for people to reconcile, especially at-risk-of-inceldom poor, lefty zoomers like myself. I'm reminded of something I heard about Contrapoints. That she doesn't deradicalise angsty alt-right men, more that she reradicalises them to the hard left. My main hope is that we can take that ease with which we can slip into other ideologies, and use that to better understand each other, and ultimately reach co-operation between most or all peoples. Maybe that's just a more stable and effective political system based on our current ones, maybe it's a complete overhaul. I don't know.
@@mutuallysustainedhateboner1426 Thanks for responding. I thought it was something she said herself but my Google search only brought up a post of her video "men" on r/neoliberal.
"Irony is when you pretend to be crazy while multiple videos of yourself are playing. The more videos are playing, the more ironic you are." -idk jreg probably
If you don't actually end up saying it, it's post-irony, you're saying that as a joke, but your cowardice communicates a message about your views whether intentional or not
Really well-explained, and the bit at 12:50 where you mentioned edgy teens and the post-irony being a way to hide their actual current worldview is something that makes so much sense and puts into words what I never could before. Like, if I'm talking to someone and I think they're racist, and i ask them and they say 'yeah I'm racist.' I might think, oh they're being sarcastic because no-one would really be sincere about that if they were, and they must know racism is so obviously bad so that's why they're making fun of the question. and then it flips it on me because, why would i ask that? Then, they go and do racist stuff and still hide behind a layer of irony as if 'extending' a bit of them being racist. When in reality, they're just self-aware (?) that they're racist and it's bad, but are being sincere (and by saying outright that they're racist they are also aware that it makes the situation seem ridiculous and detracts from the fact that they're a bad person, leading some people to think it's a joke). I hope I got that right.
Not particularly. You should be more concerned if that immediate reaction, having then been filtered through speech, alarms others in your vicinity, who may or may not be taking you seriously.
"A man marrying another man? What's next, a man marrying his dog?!"
Irony: I am anti-gay marriage
Post-Irony: I am pro marital bestiality
brilliant XD
That is actually a good example
Meta-irony: I have no clue what I'm doing
Meanwhile, in Canada:
Irony of this was actually you saying you were anti-marriage equality while you have a homestuck profile picture
I imagine Jreg in fifty years as that homeless guy on the subway that speaks in parables and demands respect
Diogenes.
@@iconsting EXACTLY, he was the prototypical high IQ homeless guy, J-REG could be kinda like that but ARMED and dangerous giving whippersnappers relationship advice they cant even comprehend all over the MTA
I imagine that Jreg is a weird, horrific psychopath centrist. That. Confuses everyone. And just confesses it now.
Saffron I read his name as Greg
the one who gets beaten in A Clockwork Orange
I can't determine if this video made me smarter or instead if it gave me the sensation of making me smarter while actually making me dumber, like a bad-quality drug.
Beither
EclecticSceptic *beaver
it's ironic
is ironic i was on aftermath after the fact
@@SpookNukem 🅱️either
So irony is joking about having a kink, post-irony is when it’s not a joke anymore.
I hate how this is the comment that helped me understand the layers
@@jobless_mar it took me so long to understand it but then when i thought of this it clicked HAHAHAHAH
see also: the reason why griffin adventurezone stopped making vore jokes
edit: well no the actual reason is that after his wife gave birth to his first child people were asking him on twitter if he was gonna eat it
@@olliefischer A Modest Proposal from Twitter
Meta irony is actually doing the stuff for the lol without even trying to know if it's ur kink
This just sounds like sincerity with extra steps
Oh It DoEs, OhMiGaWd GuYs WhAt A dIsCoVeRy.
Ooh la la, someone's gonna get laid in college
Philosophy is concluding life is pretty meta, but with extra steps.
No it’s definitely very different.
@@beatlefanc eek barba durkle, someone's gonna get laid in college
I’m pretty sure I ended this video knowing less about irony than I did when I started.
It’s pretty ironic.
No it isn't, that would be post-irony
Mudkip I guess I wouldn’t know.
@@Vgamer311 And that is meta-irony. I think, I'm not even sure.
Thanks for your sincerity
Joseph Marin A I am so confused.
This is how I understand it:
Sincerity: "I'm not a furry" (true statement, no joke)
Irony: "haha I'm a furry" (not a true statement which is the joke)
Post irony: "haha I'm not a furry guys stop it" (true statement but with the appearance that I'm being ironic and I am a furry which is the joke)
Meta irony: "guys I'm not a furry haha stop, Its not like a have a fursuit or anything guys stooop haha I'm not" (the truth of the statement is undeterminable bc of how many layers there are and at this point no one can tell if I'm a furry or not which is the joke)
You know that is the perfect description of it
You are the english teacher we want
Perfect
and the only people that can decipher your epic meta irony is people that know you well enough to know you're not a furry
@@janovich. but do even they know? maybe its my darkest secret
My favorite use of meta-irony is calling myself a gamer.
I'm actually pretty decent at video games, enjoy them and have some nice gear.
I also like to mock the "gamer" culture, gamers rise up and whatnot.
Most importantly, I consider myself neither being a gamer nor not being a gamer, i don't relate this term to myself at all, it has no meaning to me.
There is no truth about me being or not being a gamer but it's both sincere and ironic at the same time.
Oh no not the horseshoe
same!
Ah so you’re one of those transgenders I keep hearing about? I get it now.
@@purvdragon-sensei ???
I feel the same way-- in the same way someone is a "reader" or a "painter", I'm a "gamer", but I dislike the word and it how it unnecessarily associates me with this community. It's also a funny word when used by others, since everyone kinda hates it.
So if I every say "bro you're a gamer? dude, same, us gamers have to stick together", I'm likely doing it with an inflection that makes it seem like I'm being ironic, and that I'm just using the word to be funny, but in reality, I do somewhat find the term an apt description of me since I do play games. It's truth in under an ironic layer.
I think you fall in the same camp-- I don't think it's fair to say that "there's no truth about you being a gamer or not", I think it just means that it is true (to some extent, since there are multiple definitions), and you're using irony to cover it
How do you call using meta-irony post-ironically? As in, purposefully muddling the waters of your own pre-post-ironic discourse in order to make the listener think you're being post-ironic (which means the listener thinks that what you're trying to portray sincerely is true) but actually you are being ironic from the start?
Using meta-irony to explain your post-irony is what you do Jreg. You try to explain something sincerely or sarcastically, but it doesn't really matter because at the end of the video you'll always add another layer anyways, in order to confuse the listener. Double the layers, double the fun.
B
@@dobledewom4074
E
@@emmytweetie2177 E
@@Qweras85 S
I'm gonna go scoop up my brains
Oh God, Jreg is talking normally and not wearing a costume its going to get dark
QUICK get him in his undies again!
"This video about irony, on an ironic channel, will be completely unironic!"
>You lose 5 Sanity
The real gamer move is when the video slowly sheds its Layer 0 facade of sincerity, while simultaneously therein gaining +4 layers and jumping straight to Post-PostPostHyperMeta Irony
How ironic
*the darkest dungeon sanity loss sound effect plays*
, ironically
Ironic
I greet my friend “hey how’s it going”, “oh it’s doing alright nothing crazy” he replies, we look each other in the eyes, pause for a moment, and then laugh. We were completely sincere, and it was funny. That is the level I’m currently at
You have transcended the need for irony layers altogether. I applaud you
You have reach new sincerity. Bravo.
this guy got beta testing rights for sincerity 2 from the CEO of sincerity
Layer 8: cocytus
Just yelling "unironicaly tho" before committing a federal crime
So this is what they call surreal irony
"This, but unironically" **assassinates the president**
Oh I am already at Layer 8. GrEaT
When he brought up minion memes I instantly thought of zoomers posting boomer memes ironically and that's got layers like an onion
yeah, i burst out laughing when i saw it
shrek-tier irony
Look at reddit.com/r/wackytictacs
They’re beautiful
Christian Hawkins fuck, did I just cause a rift in the time-space continuum?
@@disappointeddegenerate3186 Reading those may very well be the highlight of 2020
What i got from this video:
"I am Jonathan Swift; and I want you to eat irony."
*I R I S H B A B I E S*
That’s kinda slightly a little bit kinda sorta meta-ironic kinda
This a meta ironic masterpiece
@@E4439Qv5 no, this is clearly incorrect, he wants you to SELL Irish babies for OTHERS to EAT.
One of my favourite employments of meta-irony is the "aggressive compliment", when you pay someone a (potentially) genuine compliment, but with a tone implying frustration, annoyance, anger, etc.
"God, you're so fucking NICE all the time! You're compassionate and smart and MORE PEOPLE SHOULD BE LIKE YOU! UGH!"
And the other person is just left feeling oddly slighted, but also thankful and their confusion makes for a good laugh.
Wouldn't this be post-irony?
@@sleepyhead1212 Thought the same...
@@sleepyhead1212 I think it depends on the interpretation. If the recipient is confused, the “truth” is not clear. Also, I’m some cases, one would say that in both admiration and frustration - you love them for those qualities, but at the same time are frustrated or even jealous that they have those characteristics.
It’s would be post-ironic if it is in the end clear that it IS a compliment, and if it is understood the sarcasm was ironic.
I do this all the time, I think this is why I'm unlikeable
I'm sorry that I have massive fucking tits.
It seems to me like irony evolves rather than layers itself. For example, if to take a phrase like "it be like that sometimes" to use in opposition to proper grammar or formal language, it would then be marked as ironic. It then evolves to post-irony when one starts uninronically using it because it's the phrase that best fits a given situation. These things evolve in a circular fashion rather than stay stagnant and distinctly layered.
Good point, using a layers analysis is just a way of describing what people might be getting at when they say "four layers of irony" or whatever. Post irony is a lot more like a cycle
@@ecogiko I don't know if you're trying to be sexist, ironically sexist, post ironically sexist, meta ironically sexist or post meta ironically sexist.
@@prierepanda2186 it really do be being like that sometimes it do
Bio Ico my bet is once even the normies come to understand meta-irony people will just call out the BS when they see it. Ever since I learned about meta-irony and post-irony in high school I really got disgusted by irony as a whole and really prefer just saying what I mean.
Which is part of what makes Jreg's content so addicting to me, because his deft navigation of the various layers of satire and sarcasm is like taking drugs again after quitting.
"be like that" is actually a completely legit grammar in english vernacular
If Jreg has taught me anything, it's that we should be calling this anarcho-satire.
Post anarcho satire with trans humanist tendencies
Agree
@@antuanyammine1537 anarcho-agree
aGrEe
@@tuanocallaghan5089 AnArChO-aGrEe
I genuinely believe that Jreg is doing a very interesting and groundbreaking form of political and cultural analysis throughout his entire channel, and I also deeply believe he's never going to actually say that.
Like he said about layer 2: he probably doesn’t know what he’s exactly doing
Imagine he comes here just to say "I am" meta-ironically.
Me too, man.
Whether he has a currently defined position or not, one thing that his content has done so far is make those whose head isn't too deep inside their own anus pause and think about their own position. He attacks every side, so that applies to everyone, which is a good thing and missing in all sides today. And I mean all sides, not just the traditional 2/4, cause those axes things are pure bs.
...so essentially, Socrates was on Layer 3 over 2000 years ago - "All I know is that I know nothing"?
Just found out my whole life personality and humor are based off meta-irony
An Albanian man? I thought you were a myth. Good to know that there are people watching and basing their whole personality (Definitely by accident😏) on meta irony. I'm not much better though because I say that like I don't do the same thing.
I'm not insane I swear.
Yeah the same, probably explains why i have no friends and everyone thinks i'm either retarded or insane.
Same. I didn’t even know. But now, as a fan of meta-ironic communication, I’d argue that it’s not about trying on worldviews or even just wanting a reaction. (As in trolling)
-It gives you a layer of protection against getting a bunch of anon hate, whatever your opinion is. People start arguing with each other over what you mean instead of you.
-It’s a power move. You start a conversation about a topic, but get to gauge others’ reactions, after which you can decide whether you want to express your genuine opinions, keep talking to some interesting people, just watch them debate, or laugh it off.
seems a bit more like post-satire to me
So true bestie.
There exists a third layer: surreal irony
The underlying argument is completely abandoned and the whole joke begins to be steeped in its complete absurdity
Then you could go to a post-surreal irony where the surreal absurdity is satirized and you take the nonsensical messages of the work at face value and act as if they are legitimate
E
You forgot Superirony:
A man marrying another man? Whats next, a man marrying his dog?
Irony: Im anti-gay marriage
Post-Irony: Im pro-martial bestiality
Superirony: This is a shitpost
Surreal Irony: No Patrick, marriage is not an instrument.
That's meta-irony.
As i see it, meta-irony may also seem a reflection of the use of irony, or stepping into ad-absurdum.
Examples would be deep fried memes and memes like "E" that are self-referential respectively.
Are Post-irony and Meta-irony the same things then?
So, shitpost?
Calling stuff cringy is becoming cringy to me so I started using it ironically and by doing this, I have encountered some interesting paradoxes and feedback loops.
pretty cringe ngl
Same. but for me it’s the N word
Bruh calling out Cringe is pretty Cringe in itself.
Just let people live thier lives dammit.
@@papyrustheroyalguardsmen3446 bruh calling out calling out cringe as cringe is cringe. Just let people live their lives
@@tann_man Ah yes the Post-Meta Ironic Stage of Humor.
Such a drag.
Wow Jreg wasn’t ironic for longer than 10 seconds. That’s the rarest thing I’ve ever seen and I live with the entire political compass.
No you just didn't notice the layer of irony
faissialoo he was unironically explaining irony for atleast 11 seconds
@@witchlane2799 Yes but while the statement was unironic in isolation it was in an ironic context
Ironically the video explaining irony was ironic
@@witchlane2799 Explaining irony on a channel heavily relying on irony.
He could save others, but not himself.
I view meta-irony as a way to keep outsiders from knowing the joke or actual position of a person while insiders know the actual position of the person or as a way to signal I agree with this thought or idea while being able to deny it to others in case of negative repercussions
AKA dog whistling?
@@FinetalPies same idea but theres more room for deniability. Meta irony is like an invisibility cloak for the truth. You can reach for the cloak and you may reveal something, or you may reach for it and theres nothing there. It erases all traces of social accountability
Agree
And giving older generations a stroke
Except that Meta-Irony means you don't have a position and say something in a sarcastic tone simply to say it.
I post-ironically "like" your channel and I sincerely hope that you succeed meta ironically but actually not sarcasticaly
what
The fact this whole video is inherently meta-ironic is unironically brilliant
its actually multi-ironic, in that he uses multiple different layers of irony at the same time. as he said somewhere in there, he always uses at least three layers of irony in his work.
@Odysseas G you said it right. He definitely says "Hey" after his name.
@@pussinboots838 you fool, you've been trapped on the first layer of irony
@@Realturboterrapin You fool you've been trapped in the second layer of irony
@Odysseas G and now we are all trapped in meta irony. Great
“This is just dialectics for edgy teens.”
This is my new go-to response.
Same
Sort of a broken clock response tho. No?
Y E S
dialectics ^^
ronically a highly useful concept which has served me well in my quotidien for the past couple years
t r i a n g l e
i do have hair
amen
This perfectly captures the pointless noise of modern internet discourse.
No it doesn’t
Yes to both of you.
Insert seven syllables.
I am a centrist.
among us
@@trashmystic7964 nice haïku
@@kung-borean30 yeah, ReAl NiCe
"I´m gonna do this unironically"
Not gonna lie, they hade us in the first half.
Yeah, it goes down south most visibly after the 11.30 mark
Did he unironically do this video ironically
Fuck it, we deserve this win.
Aczually not. Actually this whole thing was unironic. The ending is not ironc, as irony and several layers of irony are confusing. He shows that by being very confusing. That is coherence. No irony.
@@mylordandsaviour4786 see, I can't actually reliably say if you're being sincere right now. And to add some more fun, you like hell won't be able to tell if my lack of understanding is ironic or not
Shit, I love 2020 already
“I won’t explain it ironically”
I do not believe you. I don’t believe you at all.
he meant that ironically
Buster McMuffin meta
@@fencserx9423 *post modern meta irony
Im litteraly so pleased someone is finaly talked about this, It's so prevelent and noone is talking about it and i feel like even most smart internet ppl dont understand that
If you dissect smth it dies. Doesn’t matter if it’s a frog or joke. And Pin Point the irony we use in memes or edgy jokes is pretty dame hard. I mean even jreg could do a whole vid without using irony. If we are completely honest you could write an PhD essay about this and even then we might be confused.
@@morpheus2615 thankfully he didn't manadge to completely dissect it and he transitioned into metapostmetairony at the end
Wersium well we learned a bit and got a good joke out of it. I call it total win
@@morpheus2615 Me too
@@morpheus2615 Sounds much like South Park's "I learned something today" wrap-up trope
The reason i like meta irony is because it really is just saying words with no intended meaning behind it.
So what its good at is making the reader or listener think for themselves about what is being said, rather than worrying about what the speaker is trying to say.
Its like information without any human connection. Its like the abstract art of saying things. Youve gotta come to your own conclusion because whoever is telling you the info doesn't have any intended conclusion that theyd like you to draw from it and they dont even have a conclusion either.
Are you telling me Socrates was meta-ironic?
Shit, I have just now got the meaning of abstract art by reverse engineering it through memes.
Exactly! The point of meta-irony isn’t the “truth” or the “claim”; it’s the thought process the audience goes through. It’s confusing on purpose, in order to be thought provoking.
So you want the mental credit of someone else's thinking without you having to do any thinking yourself.
Sounds like something a teenager would say.
@@Aldeni1551 what?
"Without having to do any thinking"?
"Mental credit"?
I dont think you understood what i said.
Ah, the final form of irony: manic schizophrenia!
Underrated comment
Oh my god this needs far more likes
@@charleswesthoff5954 284 likes c'mon
LMFAO
What about IRONIC Schizophrenia?
This reminds me of a time my friends and I did LSD and we kept making jokes and seeding them in jokes that came before. One way to look at it is that we continued to add layers of irony, but in reality, the layers only repeated themselves. But it's not like I actually did LSD with my friends or whatever.
We called that the joke and it was like passing around a linguistic ball of Shirts and giggles
Repetition legitimizes
@@LitCast repition legitimizes
reption legit
ice
Basically:
Layer 2 - Well no but actually yes
Layer 1 - No
Layer 0 - Yes
@Fluffynator Well, yes.
Layer 3: smokes crack ironically
Layer 3 is telling the truth but too much information and is also kind of lying
meta irony: "Nah just playin'... unless?"
@@coalgolem4697 I laughed
the meta irony is a legit coping mechanism I learned to deflect when people confront me with uncomfortable shit. Thats the mask I put on.
I think this is the core of it
Take ur normal pillz bruva
In conlusion, Jreg was a centrist who radicalized himself
He was a centrist who post-ironically radicalized himself to become an anti-centrist, and now he is an anarcho-nazbol with libertarian characteristics.
@@shadow_of_thoth I aGrEe
I love Jreg as a legitimate philosopher.
And I mean it.
Like,,, I actually mean it.
Sincerely.
Every time I clarify, it sounds like I'm being ironic.
help.
We forsook God and now nobody trusts what we say to each other.
Hm, I don't know if I really believe you
Nice meta-ironic post
*vsauce music*
or do you‽
That's because you used the word "legitimate".
Big Chungus
Irony: Laughing at the fact big chungus was such an unfunny meme
Post Irony: Laughing at the fact big chungus was such an unfunny meme so much, you start finding it funny unironically
Meta Irony: Laughing at the fact big chungus was such an unfunny meme so much, you don't know if you find it funny unironically
I think Im at Meta Irony
I'm at post-meta-irony
Good example. Can also be said about the egg and the pidgin memes.
Post-Meta Irony: Laughing at your own laughter because you unironically laughed at something that was originally ironically funny, and the fact that you would laugh at something so stupid is funnier than the original thing.
@@KingArthur39 Laff @ unfunni
Got diagnosed with ASD few months ago, i now realize why my irony comes off as sincerity for some reason. I've been unironically subconsciously commiting the act of speaking post ironically despite the fact my intention was irony.
I have come to some conclusions about trying to be ironic or joke when falking to neurotypicals and would like to know if you agree:
Neurotypical humor is very boomer like. Sounds Mean and plain to us. Just like we sound “rude” to them sometimes.
People calm me rude and blunt (cause autistic) but also fun and witty (cause austistic).
I am not that fun or inteligent, its just the neurospice 😎
Holy fast, that's actually a lot of sense. People have repeatedly, even _constantly_ assumed I've been sarcastic when I give an opinion straight up as zero.
I am an autist too (Aspergers).
well greg you tend to "occasionally" talk about politics a lot....
but alright
Tbh this was just him flexing on how he's actually operating above Sam Hyde and Million Dollar Extreme, _and we were ALL waiting for this_
isn't his name anthony
You clearly missed the entire point of this video and honestly the whole channel lol.
Hear that sound? It's the joke flying over your head
@@billhicks8 Jreg has never shot through a crowd in self-defense, though.
@@Zorro9129
I find that very hard to believe
Now we know, Jreg is actually pronounced Jalanismorissettereg.
HarpoonLobotomy He thinks we oughta know something.
Schrüsch
Jeregarde vs Jjeczy
Na it's pronounced jeeg
Shrek
I've always referred to the internet as the 'largest and clearest mirror ever held up to the human race'. Post, meta, and every other kind of irony is the hall of mirrors effect taken to literal insane proportions.
_I was born in the darkness_
_you merely adopted it_
One thing I feel intuitively is that generally the ego is "afraid" of layer 0, and that both layer 1 and layer 2 serve to distance the ego as much as possible from the pain and potential ego destruction of trying to deal directly with sincere reality. In the way that the previous generations replied sarcastically to not make themselves emotionally vulnerable, I see a similarity to how layer 2 allows an ironic portrayal of the sarcastic response which in and of itself is an ironic layer to sincerity. Both layers allow for the individuals sincere self-perception to not be easily challenged.
This might actually be Jreg at his most sincere.
Oh the irony
I don’t trust it. Giorgio Yakatura has ruined all trust I ever might have had in anything Jreg says.
I feel like the entire video is just him hinting that he’s unironically a centrist. 10:59 is the most telling bit
@@Ppman and the irony here is that he’s hinting at being a centrist in order to disguise that he is in fact an anti-centrist. We could keep going in circles forever.
Considering the fact that he literally shoots the audience in the end I don’t think I trust him at face value
I must say this was quite the informative video, but you missed the key concept of irony known as: "Schrödinger's meme".
See, if a boomer posts something very unfunny, for instance, a minion meme, it has 0 layers of irony. However, if a dank meme page were to post the same minion meme, it would have anywhere from 2-4 layers of irony.
Now, here is the conundrum. If you encounter a minion meme in a vacuum, and have no way to know what its origin is, you cannot know whether it was posted ironically or unironically. If it was posted by a boomer on facebook, it is unironic. If it was posted by a HIP COOL EDGY gen z meme page, it is very ironic. So until the source is known, it is both ironic and unironic.
Is it both or simply undeterminable, where the superposition of all possible irony levels is purely an imaginary concept that can be used to augment our perception of reality.
That's why the "text" has to provide context. I.e. the meme itself must convey at least a meta ironic tone. The irony has to be coded in. The most common example I can think of is the "deep fried meme". It can be a boomer meme verbatim but the jpeg degradation is a commentary on the normie boomer meme itself. Or maybe that's just regular degular irony. I don't fricken know. I'm very confused
@@mistersydster except those cases where the boomer meme became gen z meme, like the grill man saying “I just want to grill”, the text and the image are the same, in a vacuum you have no idea, you just have to guess
Literally all mêmes have this property. That's the whole schtick of mêmes. Depending on who posts it, where, it can be ironic/funny etc.
@@staliniumprojectile wsh la zone oklm frro ?
This is a doctoral thesis.
Slow down there Dirk
It’s new, whatever this is, we don’t have a word for it.
And it’s not even any of that “post modernist” whatever-the-fuck-that-means stuff.
It escapes definition, but that’s it’s goal is it not?
Satire.
As a millennial 9th grade English teacher, "Oh shit, this is just dialectics for edgy teens!" is the greatest quote I've heard. I've been trying to understand where my students were coming from, and this is amazing.
I’m starting to think this channel may just be a documentary of how confusing the world is for young people currently
They are pulled in a million different directions, everything is both a joke and extremely serious at the same time, everyone is bad and good, every world view is both uncomfortable and extreme, and we are exposed to enough information to find anything convincing.
Jreg is a expression of the times and I think that in itself is of value to people.
As a zoomer i confirm.
Bingo
cool irony bro
@@SuperMistral99 cool irony bro
@@thruel4651 cool irony bro
My favourite act of Post-Irony was my friend eating Mountain Dew and Dorritos for the meme, then they started playing WoW and just kept eating Dorrito's and Mountain dew every day unironically.
Rai Pogonowski so could you say that post-irony is anytime when someone does something ironically, but then eventually starts doing it “unironically” and therefore post-ironically?
Mason Hunn it can be intentional, too. I feel like a lot of people are using it as a device to connect emotionally. For example...
Layer 0, sincerity: “I feel horrible life is meaningless”
Layer 1, sarcasm/irony: “YeAh HaViNg A gReAt FuCkInG yEaR”
Layer 2, post-irony: “tfw you have clinical depression lmao 😂👌🏼🔥“
Like when I started saying bruh ironically, then stopped doing it ironically... Bruh.
same
I believe in the irony horseshoe theory. The last layer of irony is when you always speak objective truths about everything without exception.
I didn't want to like this comment because it had 69 likes. So i left a comment instead.
@@CoryFPS I have felt compelled to reply to this other reply, because I intended to call you out for making a reply I consider overused, but in the process I realized doing so is also overused, making the situation a mess of irony layers, and that's when I realized you had planned this the whole time, to send me into a downwards spiral of insanity as I stumble over countless layers of truth and lie. Alas, my only option is to applaud your inmense wit and creativity, being able to cause someone to make a short essay, with only 18 words and the click of one fateful button. Reply.
@@pablopereyra7126 The truth has set you free, for now. Greater illusions are afoot and hindsight is an after thought. Have fun-de-mentals look into Terrence McKenna. Happy New Year
*nervously sweats in Kantian philosophy*
@@TheJackOfAllTrades777 9/11 was a national tragedy.
A better example of post-irony: Literally any George Saunders story.
Layer 0: Working class guy trying to support himself and/or family
Layer 1: It turns out his job is some hilariously demeaning job (male stripper in a WWII aerial combat-themed club, playing a caveman in a live diorama, etc) and we begin to feel we are above the character
Layer 2: The reader is forced to recognize the dignity-less protagonist's struggle as sincere and we ultimately empathize with their attempts to cling to hope in an obviously hopeless situation.
Fun fact, the end of the video, while seemingly completely random, is completely post-ironic. It could be taken as him just eating a bowl of cereal, but the way its filmed makes it seem intentional and planned, making it seem ironic, yet maybe he was actually just eating a bowl of cereal unironically, but just trying to hide that fact with a layer of irony, implying he also doesn't quite know if he's doing it ironically or unironically. This takes you through pre-irony, irony, post-irony, and meta-irony.
Essentially if you couldn't follow anything else in the video, the end essentially sums it all up
I like the part where he shot us in the face
ok but like why would he even ironically eat cereal with a fork
@@ggsknox Everyone knows you're supposed to eat cereal with a knife.
Ironic, since his point was to make all of that uncertain…another layer of irony. The gift that keeps on giving
@@DarkAngelEU I thought it was supposed to be with a hand?
12:58 he did it right there
Layer zero: “Teachers and the academic world is too old fashioned and it doesn’t understand how young people behave and use irony”
Layer one: “Your English teacher is a normie!” (when he uses the therm he wants to pass as some random dude on the internet and argues that your teacher would know better them him on the subject, therefore, a normie in his view)
Layer two: He starts to develop the ironic persona to the point that he Post-Ironic’s it and now he is speaking what he really believes in Layer Zero
Jreg, you are a genius of your art, please write a book about it, the academic world needs a new view in Irony and the internet
@very sl4vic sl4v sentence*
Irony: making fun of someone else's political opinions
post-irony: making fun of your own political opinions
meta-irony: making fun of multiple opposing political opinions simultaneously
meta-irony is just my default at this point
end-result: A never ending shitstorm of confusion, never having a consistent holistic worldview to organize around and your civilizations downfall.
@@NukeCloudstalker ok boomer
@@nathanielwindsor7679 I-I was being meta-ironic.
@@NukeCloudstalker and I was being post-meta-ironic by ironically making fun of meta-irony
pre-irony: saying what you mean
irony: saying the opposite of what you mean in a funny voice
post-irony: saying what you mean in a funny voice
meta-irony: not knowing what you mean
wait a second, post-irony does imply irony but speaking the sincerity to level up the irony right?
This is literally the simplest and best explanation
@@FrigginRakins deadass
"Irony has only emergency use. Carried over time, it is the voice of the trapped who have come to enjoy their cage" -Lewis Hyde
Sammy Kroner Wow
I'm only ironically enjoying my cage.
"All the world's a cage; we are but the players."
-Abraham Lincoln
I'd say that perfectly describes jregs channel
So is the cage the overton window, that has still kept a part of Jreg trapped.
Its very important to point out he ate the cereal with a fork. That is all.
the four prongs on the fork represent the four corners of a political compass. a spoon is round like a horseshoe, representing horseshoe theory. only centrists use spoons
@@mossmeow no dumbass, hes trying to be funny "you dont eat cereal with a fork!" While at the same time knowing his audience well enough that he knows they'll do an over analysis, thus epicly owning us
*_where are the knives..._*
@@overtoast1105 Perhaps he holds the spoon in between the bowl and his hand to show the meta-irony surrounding the irony of his using a fork. He's showing us that he knows a spoon is the proper instrument, but chooses to fork it down his gullet.
Wait, maybe that's just one layer of irony? Unless he actually... believes the fork is the correct tool and this is his way of using post-irony to come out of his shell?
Also it looked like he had a chair taped to the wall
Sincerity: Making fun of people who say "lit"
Irony: Saying "lit" because its dumb and cringy
Post irony: Starts saying "lit" out of habit
Meta irony: When someone else says "lit", you say its cringe
Vianka Reyes Saying cringe is cringe bro
@@anguishingquark keep in mind this example takes place in a time when people said lit
Vianka Reyes Î R O N y
@@anguishingquark F u c k
wØw ThÎß is So FuNny(?)
The problem with layers of irony is that most people don't even understand one layer of irony.
Level 0 (honesty): 2013 doge meme
Level 1 (irony): Ironic mid 2019 doge meme joking about how dead doge is
Level 2 (post-irony): Modern late 2019, completely unironic doge memes (e.g. doge comic-esque story memes, cheems, etc.)
True transcendence is understanding that memes are dead only when people are no longer speading them. And even when they're dead, they can be revived.
cheems?
this comment helped the entire meaning of the video click thank u
Meta irony: Soviet Union memes
where do deep fried doge memes come into this?
Pre-irony: Doc Brown and Marty McFly
Irony: Doc and Mharti
Post-irony: Rick and Morty
Meta-irony: Bushworld Adventures
Superirony: Back to the Future 4 referencing Rick and Morty
Surreal irony: I sexually identify as Pickle Rick
They’re goblins Morty, don’t be racist.
Hyper irony: Richard and Mortimer
A clear description
Linguistic irony: brick and mortar
I guess I really just needed to hear that my English teacher is a normie.
As for memes, I think I'll just stick with absurdism and keep my irony layer at a maximum of 1.5
1.5 is super low tho my guy, keep a cool 2 min to make sure you're secured from falling below the normie line
@@PirateOfPlayTime I'd prefer to still be capable of sincere communication and still know what it is I'm even trying to say.
@@LeBonkJordan being sincere in most situations, bro? not going to lie to you. that is kinda cringe.
PirateOfPlayTime this guy gets it
@@PirateOfPlayTime
if(currentYear() > 2012) {
output("Imagine using the word cringe in " + currentYear() + ".");
};
The thing about these kinds of extreme irony humour, the ability to make them and understand them is not one learned through understanding these concepts, you don't "get" modern humour by watching this video, you just obtain the ability to tap into this humour either by being there for the slow satirification of the internet, or being thrown in the deep end like the younger newer members of the internet
I wonder how much of Jregs persona has spilled out into his social life and if he is so far beyond irony that he has forgotten his own worldview. And if this channel is his abyssal scream for help, shrouded by the fact that even he can't tell if he wants said help or not.
Just me? Ok.
There was a question in the QnA about that, and he claimed it hasn't affected the rest of his life. Make of that what you want.
Bold of you to assume he has a social life
@@Games-mw1wd could be layer 0 or Could be one of the deep layers of his irony
As with anyone who's ever ironically used some stupid slang and then suddenly realized that it had become a wholly unironic thing you actually say now, this must've absolutely spilled over into other areas of his personality and life. I don't think he doesn't know what he genuinely thinks anymore, but it must've had influence.
when my friend hates religion and gets into reading tarot cards as a joke but is actually a gifted reader because of early childhood abuse at the hands of the anti-tarot church and because he's an aquarius
Asshole
@@johnjohnson3681 This comment section is shit. The video makes people aware of irony and makes me read every comment through that lens. Actually, I really enjoy that. It's not shit, it's gold.
@@ThisIsTheBestAnime lol ok
"The anti-tarot church"
I am currently picturing a religion whose sole purpose is to destroy tarot, thanks for the laugh.
Btw I’m on full earnest post-irony in this comment. I’m Straddling the duality of meaning this fully and also not meaning everything that I mean.
Y'know, I imagine that Jreg would be a fascinating person to actually talk to, but, alas, his shtick is this metaobscurantism. Entertaining, indeed; artistry that should be more appreciated, definitely; genuinely thought-provoking, depends on the video, but often I find myself just wanting him to talk longer and more in-depth about these ideas that he may or may not have.
In short, hearing his possibly-mad ramblings for a couple hours would be quite the positive experience.
Lykon Drakensken ironic
level 0: sincerity
level 1: making a joke
level 2: straight up lying for "laughs"
level 3: or is it?
"Because, ya know, edgy teens especially, they just... they wanna say stuff... to see how it feels -- to see how it sounds... coming out of their mouth. That's how they explore ideas -- that's how they try on world views, like gloves."
When you grow up knowing that anything you say can come back to haunt you, you need plausible deniability while you try ideas out. They can't just say stupid shit around their friends, forget about it, and end up keeping the ideas they like. The internet never forgets, and never forgives. they must never leave evidence that they thought the wrong thing at some point.
It's interesting what's being done to the English language now. During our grandparent's time, sarcasm was used sparingly. Nowadays I find that it's sincerity that is used sparingly. I actually have to focus to be genuine.
Snaek I find I have to repeatedly emphasize sincerity when conveying ideas to people. It’s as if the natural position of speech is irony, and sincerity is now the unique tool in dialogue.
Absolutely. I know a ton of people who the bit never ends for and half the time it's totally unclear what they actually believe.
@@IrateWizrd Yup, but that's the only way they can think freely; by obfuscating what it is they truly think. But more than that, they probably don't know what they think yet, and that's okay.
@@anthonywestbrook2155 definitely a bit of both. I think it's pretty unhealthy that the culture seems to make it difficult for people to figure out their beliefs over time, gotta be 100% "correct" or you're wrong forever.
Truth: Truth
Irony I: Satire
Irony II: Truth
Irony III: Satire
Irony IV: Truth
If we think of irony as a cycle, then the third level of irony would be heading back to irony after exploring it. So I think it’d go like this:
Truth: You look good
Irony I: You look fucked up
Irony Ii: wOW yo’RE Loooking fine
Irony III: Bad
Irony IV: (Stares while looking utterly disgusted)
The truth gets so utterly fucked by the second time around that you can’t really explain it without it looking like insanity. At the third layer you’re satirizing satire, so you have to push past absurdity and then at for you have to go back to the truth, from something that you cannot really explain normally in the first place,
So while a Layer IV irony conversation is technology truthful, it’d go something like this, (my brain is turning to mush while writing)
Guy I: See the game Saturday
Guy II: No
Both: HAHAHAHAHA
There was no game, and they’re both female...
Meta-Irony is a cycle ender, or something you use when you wanna’ make sure nobody can track your original opinion, so that’s usually where it ends but if you push past Meta, you get something that I can’t explain and I won’t try to...
I made a meme out of that right now ironically lol
@@godsigner OOO000HHH MAAAANN!!
this is just iota but language instead of maths
Sincerity = Speaking a Truth to communicate a Truth
Lying = Speaking a Falsehood to communicate a Falsehood
Irony = Speaking a Falsehood to communicate a Truth
Lyrony = Speaking a Truth to communicate a Falsehood
If you say something true in a sarcastic tone of voice, that's lyrony.
Post-Meta-Irony ?
There's only one name for this: satire accelerationism (s/acc for short).
one must be very cautious in wielding sacc openly
I believe in a balanced version of satire accelerationism in daily life. Bal/sacc if you will.
S A C C
@@thedarklord530 anarco/sacc
@@operativexeight i love you
>sees Jreg overlapping himself to absurdity
>goes to subtitles to see if anyone has decyphered his ramblings in a feeble attempt to understand it
>Átkok, megint meghiúsítva
That introduction where he pronounced jreg like "jhougheje" gave me whiplash
This channel is like watching a man on some form of meds talk coherently for the first half and then for the second half they run out and he starts having some kind of fit
Old Irony: The observations of my dissatisfaction are enough to satisfy me.
Modern irony: The observations of my dissatisfaction allow me to disassociate from my own desire for things to be different. The more ways I muddy my own message, the less I'm able to feel any connection to my real emotions or motives behind the irony in the first place, the further I am able to disassociate from my own truth. Simply observing my own dissatisfaction is longer enough to satisfy me.
Jesus fucking Christ can you like _not_ fucking personally attack the last entire 6 years of my life and what my personality has basically become
I think it's just an obfuscation of having bad parents so stfu u genius
@@alacastersoi8265 could i ask for an elaboration?
No joke, watching this video around when it came out helped me on my still ongoing journey to be less of a dumbfuck and get my life together. It got me to realize a bit more just how little I engage with the things I consume and how muddled their meaning was/is to me, got me to put more value on sincerity.
"I'm going to explain it unironically"
Please be careful, I've been hurt before Mr. Green Jello.
Jreg throws a d20 to decide how many layers of irony he wants in his videos
Then he adds his wacky modifier of +5
If he posted this on April 1st, but then he actually ended up being uniroinic in the video, that would be another layer of irony
You articulate yourself very well, dude. Rare quality. And are witty as well, as you continue to clearly explain yourself. This video is genius. Big cheers and congrats.
When you said you were going to explain things unironically I started to take everything you talked about as a joke. What have you done to me?
Jreg: How many layers of irony are you on?
Boomer: Like 0.5
J(honathan swift)reg: You are like a baby, watch this.
*eats boomer*
"i sort of yearn for the time when we had God and community in our-
Alessandra Serruto thank you. I fully believe Greg believes this and I agree with him.
@@lukeyluke9637 I want to die
And I want to know the irony of that statement
@@lukeyluke9637 no
@@lukeyluke9637
w- was that ironic?
I actually think jreg is far right like legit
The fact that you made this video makes my sociologist/anthropologist brain really fuckin happy because I've seen the evolution of memes since the beginning and it is amazing to be able to explain/learn about why
Reject Irony.
Embrace absolute sincerity.
Yes.
No that’s boomer cringe lol L
Sincere: I mourn the loss of the Byzantine Empire
Ironic: wow gosh i sure do love being subjugated by the turks
post-ironic: 1453 worst year of my life
Its Constantinople!
Best year of my life*
Meta-Ironic: Look at me, I'm the Roman Empire now.
i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/157/945/6d1.jpg
god i love this
"how many layers of irony are u in?"
"yes"
i just smoked another fat hit of dat ir0ny boss; surfeit of slaves
That was pretty meta ironic of you. Ladies and Gentlemen we got him.
"no" *stares directly at sun while crying*
@@alacastersoi8265 crying because you're a failure and no one really likes or supports you, knowing well that when you die everyone will occasionally forget that you were there in the first place and everything you did and suffered was in vain, but only ironically
Man I’m so sad this video didn’t pop up in my feed 11 months ago!
Wait, so the Flat Earth is just a HUGE meta-ironic joke?
But if they actually believe it, then isn't it post-ironic?
@@DreadKiwi i think it's meta-post-meta-modernicentrismeatingbabys. there
@@DreadKiwi post ironic is when u dont take it seriously so much u r sarcastic entirely to ur kids growing up but they dont get it and believe it for real
Giant Spaghetti Monster anybody?
"I realize this makes me sound like a politics channel in denial."
No it just makes you sound like a politician.
"I have no fucking clue what I'm speaking about"
That line was brilliant, and it saddens me that I don't think anybody else noticed.
On the contrary, everybody noticed but nobody wanted to mention it because we all wanna uphold that extra layer of irony
Damn, I just realized I used meta-irony to stay closeted during high school.
Every time my idiot friends asked me "Are you gay?", I don't wanna say no bcuz I know I won't come off as sincere. So instead I always answered "Oh yes of course tOtaLly" just to confuse them and make them shut up and stop trying to out me 😩
That's post-irony though, right?
Thank you Jreg for constructing a framework for zoomers to try and understand their own irony. I think that's part of the appeal of your community, as well as the rest of the political compass-oriented communities like PolCompBall. I think/agree that meta-irony is commonly used by people online to try on worldviews that they don't hold as their core beliefs, but that they can easily slip into. e.g. National Bolshevism. Like the character said in centricide, it is not a contradictory worldview. I'd probably say it's actually one of the easiest for people to reconcile, especially at-risk-of-inceldom poor, lefty zoomers like myself.
I'm reminded of something I heard about Contrapoints. That she doesn't deradicalise angsty alt-right men, more that she reradicalises them to the hard left. My main hope is that we can take that ease with which we can slip into other ideologies, and use that to better understand each other, and ultimately reach co-operation between most or all peoples. Maybe that's just a more stable and effective political system based on our current ones, maybe it's a complete overhaul. I don't know.
look at this dude on 0 layers of irony XD
@@mutuallysustainedhateboner1426 Thanks for responding. I thought it was something she said herself but my Google search only brought up a post of her video "men" on r/neoliberal.
Better understanding each other and reaching cooperation? Sounds like something a centrist would say.
>being a lefty
>"she"
"Irony is when you pretend to be crazy while multiple videos of yourself are playing. The more videos are playing, the more ironic you are."
-idk jreg probably
so, is yelling "I'm gonna, say the N-word..." meta-irony?
I'm gonna commit post-irony and genuinely say it
This was meta-irony
But this just became layer 0
I'm confused ni
@@KennyWlr I'm gonna commit soduko and leave this earth before I die.
If you don't actually end up saying it, it's post-irony, you're saying that as a joke, but your cowardice communicates a message about your views whether intentional or not
the n-word
@@Lazypackmule Then it becomes Post-Meta irony if someone well known as a racist would just say "I'm gonna say the N-word" and nothing more?
Really well-explained, and the bit at 12:50 where you mentioned edgy teens and the post-irony being a way to hide their actual current worldview is something that makes so much sense and puts into words what I never could before.
Like, if I'm talking to someone and I think they're racist, and i ask them and they say 'yeah I'm racist.' I might think, oh they're being sarcastic because no-one would really be sincere about that if they were, and they must know racism is so obviously bad so that's why they're making fun of the question. and then it flips it on me because, why would i ask that?
Then, they go and do racist stuff and still hide behind a layer of irony as if 'extending' a bit of them being racist. When in reality, they're just self-aware (?) that they're racist and it's bad, but are being sincere (and by saying outright that they're racist they are also aware that it makes the situation seem ridiculous and detracts from the fact that they're a bad person, leading some people to think it's a joke). I hope I got that right.
Yeah hit the nail on the head
Should I be scared that every sentence in my head goes through a filter of deadpan post-irony before I talk
Not particularly.
You should be more concerned if that immediate reaction, having then been filtered through speech, alarms others in your vicinity, who may or may not be taking you seriously.
It's an honor to be with you
I like the idea that Jreg had to edit footage of himself editing footage of himself.
Jregory: *uploads anything longer than 5 minutes*
Me, a coomer: oh yeah time to coom😎 *cooms*
My brother
My sides are in orbit
Based and coompilled
coomer isnt funny
@@SuperMistral99 can someone say, "struck a nerve"