Reminds me of the old Tootsie Roll commercials about how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll pop. GREAT real world testing Liam.
Enjoyed the test, and while I've never had a curved handle like that, it looks good. In my experience, the grain orientation had less to do with cracking and more to do with bad swings from my helper.
Love the duck tape fix! i fixed a sledge hammer handle like that on a job site, and i haven't had to change it out yet! I wonder if you tested the "patched up" handle to failure again?
I have made the argument before i like to use grain thats not in line with the edge fore splitting mauls when you overhit thats not weakening the grain as much as much as it would be if it was parallel with the edge the overhits dent the fibers but doesent break the them as easy tent to get more life out of maul handels
Great video. This did a great job at conveying the strength of these handles reguardless of grain orientation. They call it internet perfect. I have some really old handles that have “bad” grain orientation and we all know the look and feel of a handle that’s been used for decades. These didn’t get this way from sitting in a barn and they survived because someone who knew what they were doing was using it. That’s a big part.
Ok forget about all the handle stuff (which was cool), I want that test head. After all that pounding on hard locust that bit is going to be harder than woodpecker lips and will likely never chip short of hitting a rock. My turn of the century heads I've restored are like that. When you finally get them profiled and get an edge on them they run forever with minimal touch ups.
I'd have to trim the swell on that axe. For a chopping axe i find the less weight in the swell the better it feels to swing. A well shaped swell is great, but not these recently common 'extended' swells IMO. Interesting experiment! The Eastcoast Lumberjack channel has some great information and test results regarding handles and grain orientation.
Great video! And all the time that I’ve been swinging hammers or axes. I’ve realized this also, some last forever and some just don’t. Wood is a living thing after all and who knows what’s going on inside those grains.
The only axes that had straight handles with parallel grain when I was a kid were splitting mauls. All of our hatchets and axes had curved handles with perpendicular grain from what I recall. The one I have now does too; wouldn't have it any other way.
That was a grueling torture test for any axe handle. Working in a hardware store I sold handles to overstrike breaks mostly. I even epoxied a maul handle repeatedly from the boy's intentional overstrikes, just to prove a point. That handle was nearly dead strait grain.
With the price of your Axes it seems doubtful to me that many people would choose a handle that wasn't strait grain. Do you sell many of the lower priced ones?
Looks like the handle broke right on the runout line of the grain. In my experience grain orientation hasnt seemed to matter as much as grain runout. Good video!
And every handle and head, even in the same lot, can be drastically different from one to the next. One can fail in the first hit and one can last 5k strikes. Also the person swinging it comes into play as well as what they’re chopping.
Plus any miss hit which damages or bruises the handle will also be a huge factor. Most of my handles failed because of age and mostly from miss hit damage
@@thecanadiantradesman7916 yes that definitely comes into play. I think they’re just tryin to show how “good” their handles are with normal use as someone may have had one that failed pre-maturely. I don’t know anything about that though. I’ll agree though with the fact that most; if not all, of my axe’s and hatchets failed from user error lol be it not sharpening the edge, hitting the handle on the wood instead of the splitting edge of the head lol things like that. They’re a use part and are replaceable because they will eventually fail.
With that blunted blade it has to generate much more stress than if it were Sharpe .Just me but do the testing with a Sharpe blade the real world test. I know it will take more out of the guys but that would be real world testing but that's just me. Good to see you again. Happy trails
Using a blunt blade is the Worst Case real world test, sure most people put real money into an axe will most likely maintain their axe head well, but not everyone will.
I dont see any work gloves being used ... as a result, I predict all 3 gents later developed at least 1 nasty blister in the crooks of their hands, and/or the sides of their thumbs. 😉
p.s. You mentioned a customer claiming a handle broke after 5 hits. IMO, probably 80-90% of most owners have pretty crappy form when it comes to axe use (esp in suburbia, rather than a backwoods area), and one common blunder is an overreach miss during splitting ... meaning the head hit too close to the far side of a log, causing the handle just behind the head to impact. Do it too hard and often, and the handle cracks. Bottom line: 9 times in 10, it's the customer's fault, not the axe handle. - my $0.02
That only happens if you don’t already have the needed calluses. The hands of a worker don’t need gloves because of blisters. We got over blisters decades ago.
@@HansWeberHimself Fair point. 80-90 % of most owners, esp in suburbia, dont have em tho. 😄 However, even good calluses are not invincible when several hundred hits are involved.
Yes, switching off every 25 hits would help, but only to a point well shy of the 600+ apiece they ended up doing. Spread that out however you like over a couple hours and even experienced choppers with heavy calluses are gonna get blisters. ... and YES, ive had those kind of blisters. I grew up in a house with a fireplace, and splitting wood, managing the wood pile, and running the fireplace was one of my assigned chores, from my early teens thru college. We went thru about a cord per winter ... not as much as a primary pot belly stove, but still more than nearly all households without one. One of my older brothers was a tree surgeon, so most of our wood was free, but also invariably unsplit and usually green, so I was well acclimated to not just a woodsman axe, but also to splitting mauls, wedges (4 steel ones), sledge hammers, hand saws, and a small chain saw. Bottom line: im not an expert by any stretch, and never claimed to be, but unlike most postees in threads like this one, i'm also no stranger to it. Meanwhile, I really wish the snowflakes out there who've never held, much less used, an axe in their life would kindly pipe down.
Very informative ! And the duct tape repair was a nice touch as well , could have wrapped some wire coat hanger on it for that true southern engineering effect :)
Such a complicated topic. No doubt though that end grain is only one of many factors and not the most important. Runout is far more important, as is the toughness or not of any given piece of wood. I think people are starting to realize that it's not as simple as vertical vs horizontal. I still prefer the traditional (at least here anyway) vertical grain, but there are things I would choose over just that given a pile of axe handles to go through. Unless flaws are drastic, or the wood is just very weak, most breakage is still user error. A lot from heavy handed technique where the handle is being pushed on hard after the head hits the wood. Still helpful to stack the cards in our favor with handles of good integrity though.
Great video, but I’m sure that a sharp axe would last at least twice as long before fatigue. The shock of the sharp axe would be cushioned considerably by the wedging action imparted by the wood. I think you make great handles and I don’t think any casual axe man would ever break one with normal use. Keep up the good work.
That was an interesting experiment! The only thing that could have made it better, would be to see how many slow mo. swings it would take to carve up a pizza... in an epic cinematic sequence.
I think it also depends quite significantly on the swinging technique: If you stop accelerating before impact and just let it glide on, that perpendicular grain may last a lot longer still
awesome test. i have toyed around with handles for my tools over the last 15 years or so and the handle that has performed best was actually a pin oak branch on my main forge hammer. in 15 years i have had to re shape the tenon 2x after much abuse but the main shaft of the hammer hasnt failed yet. i have surely lost count, but keep in mind this hammer was used to demotar 1000ish bricks before i forged and then as my primary forge hammer swung with full force since 2013 or so. i dont have a lotta handles in my shop that have seen that much abuse and survived intact. i ll also share this. i recently bought a hickory handle to put on an axe head i had laying around straight grained and failed within a month of use, hardly anywhere close to the abuse i gave the old forge hammer. cant judge a book by its cover.
Do you make a pill for me to get as ripped as you guys? I love axes. They make wonderful wall art. However, the thought of having to use them in the woods, while getting sweaty and dirty is so super tribal. The 4.5lber is sweet!
The grain orientation is wrong. It is not that they can break, it is the grain can raise and when you run your hand down the handle, they can bite you! Had that done. Straight through the base of my thumb. Just look at the shape of the grain, like a spear point! Hitting the axe straight down compress the wood. Cut at a angle and it slices the wood. Makes sense not wasting timber. You make great looking axes!
Love many things about this experiment, but particularly the outcome. More efficient use of handle stock lumber is a win all around. I would have enjoyed a closeup of the eye showing the grain orientation and one of the eventual failure. Wishing HB continued success!
I absolutely love this. As a maker/craftsperson myself I hate wasting material, even if it may not be the most premium or highest grade of the material... especially when it comes to user tools and materials that WILL likely need replacing eventually anyway. Might as well get SOME use out of the material you'd otherwise throw away and then just replace or repair it if/when it does fail. I think offering the non-parallel grain handles at a different price point is an excellent way to turn that waste into worthwhile working material. Even if it was proven exactly that non-parallel grain handles last only 50% as long, that's still that much use that material could be put to. And finally, like you pointed out, breakage is also often a result of a LOT of different factors combining so even perfectly parallel grain CAN prematurely fail sometimes. Seems to me that non-parallel grain handles are at least worth throwing on there and getting some work out of them.... and I'd imagine they'd last significantly longer on smaller models.
Wow, you men did good! Bravo👏. Council Tool did some remarkable testing on grain orientation of a haft and discovered that it did not matter to the outcome, that being incidence of breakage.
I would like to see the grain orientation where the handle broke because the handle seems to show a twist along the split section. Cut through at both ends of the break points, polish the ends and show the orientation.
Reminds me of the old Tootsie Roll commercials about how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll pop.
GREAT real world testing Liam.
Enjoyed the test, and while I've never had a curved handle like that, it looks good. In my experience, the grain orientation had less to do with cracking and more to do with bad swings from my helper.
1943 swings with a dull head into dry locust...very interesting Mr. Hoffman...
So happy you did this, Liam. I think this is an excellent test and representation.
Wow, keeping them clean and oiled, Ive had handles last decades. I've also had 1 that didn't last a day. That is a stress test for sure...
Kudos from a fellow Liam! Love this kind of video content, keep it up.
the hair migrated from head to face
Yeah it happens to the best of us.
Good exercise routine, love tge echo from the woods, it takes me back. Im 75 years old in Washington State.😊😊😊
Good demo. Dry locust and rock have a lot in common.
Love the duck tape fix! i fixed a sledge hammer handle like that on a job site, and i haven't had to change it out yet! I wonder if you tested the "patched up" handle to failure again?
I have made the argument before i like to use grain thats not in line with the edge fore splitting mauls when you overhit thats not weakening the grain as much as much as it would be if it was parallel with the edge the overhits dent the fibers but doesent break the them as easy tent to get more life out of maul handels
Your handles look very nice, I usually make my own handles but I'll probably buy one at some point
Great video nice test I've always had great luck with hickory handles!!
Great video. This did a great job at conveying the strength of these handles reguardless of grain orientation. They call it internet perfect. I have some really old handles that have “bad” grain orientation and we all know the look and feel of a handle that’s been used for decades. These didn’t get this way from sitting in a barn and they survived because someone who knew what they were doing was using it. That’s a big part.
Ok forget about all the handle stuff (which was cool), I want that test head. After all that pounding on hard locust that bit is going to be harder than woodpecker lips and will likely never chip short of hitting a rock. My turn of the century heads I've restored are like that. When you finally get them profiled and get an edge on them they run forever with minimal touch ups.
Great info. I was unaware of this!
It's inspirational for me to tune up some old axe heads.
I'd have to trim the swell on that axe. For a chopping axe i find the less weight in the swell the better it feels to swing. A well shaped swell is great, but not these recently common 'extended' swells IMO.
Interesting experiment! The Eastcoast Lumberjack channel has some great information and test results regarding handles and grain orientation.
Great video! And all the time that I’ve been swinging hammers or axes. I’ve realized this also, some last forever and some just don’t. Wood is a living thing after all and who knows what’s going on inside those grains.
Ingenious marketing
Maybe you would choose which axe to use perpendicular grain on. Might be good for small camp axes or trim (delimbing) axes.
The only axes that had straight handles with parallel grain when I was a kid were splitting mauls. All of our hatchets and axes had curved handles with perpendicular grain from what I recall. The one I have now does too; wouldn't have it any other way.
That was a grueling torture test for any axe handle. Working in a hardware store I sold handles to overstrike breaks mostly. I even epoxied a maul handle repeatedly from the boy's intentional overstrikes, just to prove a point. That handle was nearly dead strait grain.
I'm convinced! Great test.
Hey Liam. I'd like you to make me an axe, but... I can't ever order one. Help me out brother. Love your work and would like to put one to use.
Do the same test on 32-34 inch curved handle
Good test and great products.
A lot that I have broken or seen broken have been grain runout.
That was actually a great test for durability of the type of handle. Would you be willing to make a Lucust handle to test against other types of wood?
With the price of your Axes it seems doubtful to me that many people would choose a handle that wasn't strait grain. Do you sell many of the lower priced ones?
We only offer straight grain on the axes we sell. These handles are offered for people just buying handles off of my website for their own axes.
We sell just handles themselves. www.hoffmanblacksmithing.com/premium-axe-handles
Maybe it ain't so much the grain but the species of wood. Maybe you could utilize a crappy wood like gum, that would hold up better?
Interesting video!!
Where and how you store the axe maybe
Love the videos keep it up
Looks like the handle broke right on the runout line of the grain.
In my experience grain orientation hasnt seemed to matter as much as grain runout.
Good video!
Love the test. good info.
Awesome. Thanks
What does that handle shape give you?.
But one does not cut wood with a blunt axe.
Well I didn't expect the beard.
Hope all has been well misses the videos
And every handle and head, even in the same lot, can be drastically different from one to the next. One can fail in the first hit and one can last 5k strikes. Also the person swinging it comes into play as well as what they’re chopping.
Bet you are super fun at the party!
@@jackastbury God bless you!
Plus any miss hit which damages or bruises the handle will also be a huge factor. Most of my handles failed because of age and mostly from miss hit damage
@@thecanadiantradesman7916 yes that definitely comes into play. I think they’re just tryin to show how “good” their handles are with normal use as someone may have had one that failed pre-maturely. I don’t know anything about that though. I’ll agree though with the fact that most; if not all, of my axe’s and hatchets failed from user error lol be it not sharpening the edge, hitting the handle on the wood instead of the splitting edge of the head lol things like that. They’re a use part and are replaceable because they will eventually fail.
I can break it 10 swings, u just gotta find that really hard part in the tree, but sharpness and head profile matters most
With that blunted blade it has to generate much more stress than if it were Sharpe .Just me but do the testing with a Sharpe blade the real world test. I know it will take more out of the guys but that would be real world testing but that's just me. Good to see you again. Happy trails
Using a blunt blade is the Worst Case real world test, sure most people put real money into an axe will most likely maintain their axe head well, but not everyone will.
damn that handle looks so sexy
ขวานทรงนี้ชอบมากครับ
I can break it 10 swings, u just gotta find that really hard piece of wood
I dont see any work gloves being used ... as a result, I predict all 3 gents later developed at least 1 nasty blister in the crooks of their hands, and/or the sides of their thumbs. 😉
p.s. You mentioned a customer claiming a handle broke after 5 hits. IMO, probably 80-90% of most owners have pretty crappy form when it comes to axe use (esp in suburbia, rather than a backwoods area), and one common blunder is an overreach miss during splitting ... meaning the head hit too close to the far side of a log, causing the handle just behind the head to impact. Do it too hard and often, and the handle cracks.
Bottom line: 9 times in 10, it's the customer's fault, not the axe handle.
- my $0.02
That only happens if you don’t already have the needed calluses. The hands of a worker don’t need gloves because of blisters. We got over blisters decades ago.
@@HansWeberHimself Fair point. 80-90 % of most owners, esp in suburbia, dont have em tho. 😄
However, even good calluses are not invincible when several hundred hits are involved.
Switching off every 25 hits will do a lot to combat blisters.
Yes, switching off every 25 hits would help, but only to a point well shy of the 600+ apiece they ended up doing. Spread that out however you like over a couple hours and even experienced choppers with heavy calluses are gonna get blisters.
... and YES, ive had those kind of blisters. I grew up in a house with a fireplace, and splitting wood, managing the wood pile, and running the fireplace was one of my assigned chores, from my early teens thru college. We went thru about a cord per winter ... not as much as a primary pot belly stove, but still more than nearly all households without one. One of my older brothers was a tree surgeon, so most of our wood was free, but also invariably unsplit and usually green, so I was well acclimated to not just a woodsman axe, but also to splitting mauls, wedges (4 steel ones), sledge hammers, hand saws, and a small chain saw.
Bottom line: im not an expert by any stretch, and never claimed to be, but unlike most postees in threads like this one, i'm also no stranger to it. Meanwhile, I really wish the snowflakes out there who've never held, much less used, an axe in their life would kindly pipe down.
Very informative ! And the duct tape repair was a nice touch as well , could have wrapped some wire coat hanger on it for that true southern engineering effect :)
Glad to see you back on here man keep making videos! That was a great test I do appreciate the R&D
Such a complicated topic. No doubt though that end grain is only one of many factors and not the most important. Runout is far more important, as is the toughness or not of any given piece of wood. I think people are starting to realize that it's not as simple as vertical vs horizontal. I still prefer the traditional (at least here anyway) vertical grain, but there are things I would choose over just that given a pile of axe handles to go through. Unless flaws are drastic, or the wood is just very weak, most breakage is still user error. A lot from heavy handed technique where the handle is being pushed on hard after the head hits the wood. Still helpful to stack the cards in our favor with handles of good integrity though.
Great video, but I’m sure that a sharp axe would last at least twice as long before fatigue. The shock of the sharp axe would be cushioned considerably by the wedging action imparted by the wood.
I think you make great handles and I don’t think any casual axe man would ever break one with normal use.
Keep up the good work.
Looks like quite a workout!
That was an interesting experiment! The only thing that could have made it better, would be to see how many slow mo. swings it would take to carve up a pizza... in an epic cinematic sequence.
I think it also depends quite significantly on the swinging technique: If you stop accelerating before impact and just let it glide on, that perpendicular grain may last a lot longer still
Wow that’s some results you got there! Great test, great axe and great maker.
Great to see you making videos again, I miss your blacksmithing stuff.
The Hoffman company fitness program looks intense :P
awesome test. i have toyed around with handles for my tools over the last 15 years or so and the handle that has performed best was actually a pin oak branch on my main forge hammer. in 15 years i have had to re shape the tenon 2x after much abuse but the main shaft of the hammer hasnt failed yet. i have surely lost count, but keep in mind this hammer was used to demotar 1000ish bricks before i forged and then as my primary forge hammer swung with full force since 2013 or so. i dont have a lotta handles in my shop that have seen that much abuse and survived intact. i ll also share this. i recently bought a hickory handle to put on an axe head i had laying around straight grained and failed within a month of use, hardly anywhere close to the abuse i gave the old forge hammer. cant judge a book by its cover.
Do you make a pill for me to get as ripped as you guys?
I love axes. They make wonderful wall art. However, the thought of having to use them in the woods, while getting sweaty and dirty is so super tribal.
The 4.5lber is sweet!
Who says you can't buck with a blunt axe ??? ....if you are young fit and a bit mad ;
The grain orientation is wrong. It is not that they can break, it is the grain can raise and when you run your hand down the handle, they can bite you! Had that done. Straight through the base of my thumb. Just look at the shape of the grain, like a spear point! Hitting the axe straight down compress the wood. Cut at a angle and it slices the wood. Makes sense not wasting timber. You make great looking axes!
This is bucking wild.
The Liam Hoffman Fitness Center, First 6 months are free to anyone who doesn't quit the workouts.
Not bad for a dull axe! Thanks for the video
How many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop?
Great test mate. Cheers.
blunt force trauma for axes :(
Nice honest video
BOB!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Love many things about this experiment, but particularly the outcome. More efficient use of handle stock lumber is a win all around. I would have enjoyed a closeup of the eye showing the grain orientation and one of the eventual failure. Wishing HB continued success!
I absolutely love this. As a maker/craftsperson myself I hate wasting material, even if it may not be the most premium or highest grade of the material... especially when it comes to user tools and materials that WILL likely need replacing eventually anyway. Might as well get SOME use out of the material you'd otherwise throw away and then just replace or repair it if/when it does fail. I think offering the non-parallel grain handles at a different price point is an excellent way to turn that waste into worthwhile working material. Even if it was proven exactly that non-parallel grain handles last only 50% as long, that's still that much use that material could be put to.
And finally, like you pointed out, breakage is also often a result of a LOT of different factors combining so even perfectly parallel grain CAN prematurely fail sometimes. Seems to me that non-parallel grain handles are at least worth throwing on there and getting some work out of them.... and I'd imagine they'd last significantly longer on smaller models.
Wow, you men did good! Bravo👏. Council Tool did some remarkable testing on grain orientation of a haft and discovered that it did not matter to the outcome, that being incidence of breakage.
I would like to see the grain orientation where the handle broke because the handle seems to show a twist along the split section. Cut through at both ends of the break points, polish the ends and show the orientation.
Damn dude. You got a license for those GUNS?!?
Great vid and I agree with not wasting wood all handles break anyways some day
Maybe retry the test with a regular finished sharpened head?
Your handles are the best I’ve seen or felt. I love them
Very nice job. Forge on. God bless.
Well done! Respect!
Love all your stuff
Need more videos