I remember that someone killed him without feeling any pride and he didn't resurrect but Chaos characters just can't die when they should so Slannesh resurrected him bruh
I have an unpublished fan fiction where my self insert spends his time hunting down and murdering Lucius with utter disgust in his heart. Waiting for Slaanesh to get bored and respawn Lucius anyway (because that is apparently a thing in the lore), then hunting him down with the aid of hired night lords and murdering him again. Over and over again. This fan fiction will never even be written, but I carry it with me in my heart.
It would be ten times scarier if Lucius wasn't a dude possessing people but a title that people could take. Say, for instance, a person kills Lucius and was an exceptionally good commander. Welp, he starts calling himself Lucius and eventually becomes Lucius (astartes implants and all) and thinks he is immortal. He makes a sword just like the original Lucius' and he has all of the original Lucius' skills and his new leadership abilities. The armor and whip grow in and the new Lucius always, eventually goes back to the Emperor's children and tries to lead them. Now, stick with me here. Make it where there are at least 5 Lucius running around right now. Make it where, if Lucius dies, if anyone, ANYONE knew about it and felt pride, happiness, etc, they could go down that spiral. Makes him a cognitohazard that the Inquisition has more of a reason to keep on the down-low. If they don't and news of his death spreads, entire worlds could become Lucius. Lucius isn't as pretentious now, eh? They are scary as fuck like that. Granted, this sounds more of an Alpha Legion champion now tho.
I see so many posts, videos, etc, about how people hate Lucius...I think his entire story and concept of rebirth is amazing. Probably my favorite character in the lore right now, and one of the reasons I chose to pursue making my own warband as a custom group from the Emperor's Children.
A lot of people (in my experience) dislike him because he has a cheat button that prevents him from matching up with any hero from the lore; And correct me if I'm wrong, but no one is immune to this revive button, since he even revived himself from a Necron (Who have been effectively emotion and free-will wiped, at least on the general infantry end). When a character has no stakes, its hard to enjoy them.. and when the heroes can never really win against them, it becomes annoying.
@@frostmagemarii I mean, if that's why people post hate about him, that's fine. I think that's what makes him so interesting. Time for him to lose to a Primarch I guess, lets see what he can really do. lol.
Yeah thats the thing, given how bullshit his ability is he could probably kill the Emperor by dying and possessing him. I agree its a good ability in concept, but taken too far to the point its just playground talk. It's not that people don't like him because he's too strong, Warhammer is no stranger to overly powerful characters. Its that doesn't even follow the basic rules established because he literally possessed a Necron; a soulless, unfeeling, cold, mechanical shell. That means he can probably possess a random rock that fell on his head. What he "can" do doesn't matter if all he needs to do is die to win the fight against anyone.
They need to take inspiration Resident Evil for Lucius with his flesh whip. If they want him taken seriously in any way, he needs a new book with some serious work put in but the best option is to just kill him off for good (mechanicus would be perfect) and find a new champion of the Dark Prince.
My question is: What is the time frame for the curse to trigger? Like if someone kills Lucius and is just grateful that they’re alive in the moment and then they later get a medal or something for service in the conflict where they killed Lucius and they’re proud of that, does that trigger the curse? I know that part of how Slaanesh corrupts is getting in through the little slip-ups, a little extra gold here and suddenly you’re a statue in a garden of statues sort of thing, but is there no limit on when the curse will trigger in lore, just that it will?
The Chaos gods did not give them deamonhood not because they are not worthy but because they needed 'mortal' generals to lead wars in real space, tbh i think they are more powerful than some greater deamons. But i do agree, everybody hates Lucius. His power is just bad. not that it isnt OP its just bad! , like you win by losing to someome who is better than you.
So.... pretty sure he is as hated as you think. For me, I love the idea that he is probably the best possible weapon that can be used against the empire though..... if anyone would actually use him right. For example: You set down on a planet that has a primarch. This primarch has been fucking up your day. OK.... Send Lucius down there to challenge him to one on one combat..... Oh look, Lucius is dead. Guess we all have to leave now because of that..... *Wait a few days* Oh hey look, that entire legion now no longer has their primarch and is in complete disarray, lets go back there and fuck them up.
@aloxpeexd302 They confirmed that you don't actually need satisfaction from killing Lucius to transform. In an interview, one of the writers, I forgot which one, said that even a Necron can be cursed because it understands that it accomplished a protocol.
What if a man with no living parents or relatives killed him while naked with nothing but his hands, and nobody sent him to do it, and the guy had coincidentally had all his emotions removed prior(with no intent for him to be going after Lucius). Then this hypothetical guy offs himself after taking out Lucius. What then? I don't even think there's a loophole for it.
My favorite summery of this bastard is Fabious Bile is the true champion (whether he likes it or not), Lucius is just a plaything that Slaanesh pities.
The land mine thing is so bullshit like, literally let’s say, the man himself, Rubberboot Guiltyman could literally accidentally slash Lucius in half when he was tearing into traitors unknowingly and *theoretically* could be turned into Lucius because he took pride in his swordsmanship. Though that would never happen since the BigE would rip Slaneesh a new permanent hole it never wanted if it tried.
I liked Lucius in the first couple Heresy series books. He was a little high strung, but had a core of honor and justified pride in his own skilled. I loved his whole thing about with those Xenos on planet Murder; after seeing his weapons doing next to nothing against their chitin armor, and see how easily their claw arms tore through Space Marine armor, he RIPPED OFF its armor, made a guard out of straps, and started absolutely wrecking them thereafter. His face scaring has a decent air of tragedy, too, because of his brief connection with the tortured artist girl from the Fulgrim Heresy book. His reaction to basically being damned by association on Istvaan III is also understandable, too. His Slannesh gift would be genuinely amazing as well, but Slannesh just deciding to bring him back whenever makes him cheap and only highlights how nothing his character is post-Heresy.
Yea he feels like the only one of the four who didnt earn his place. He really just got lucky that his pretty face fulfilled slaanesh' fetish. Although honestly, thats kinda fitting for slaanesh.
Absolutely love the bit in the book Angel Exterminatus I think it's that one when Lucius goes fucking mental and starts just killing everyone then stops and just screetches " SLAAAANESH"
How can he be this amazing swrodsman and keep loosing all the time? Fist time I heard about him I was like "cool!" then I though for 2 sec and then "lame" :(
I fucking hate him so much and it makes me upset that the only good Lucius moment I can think of was that episode of Hammer and Bolter that he got. That is literally the ONLY TIME he has ever been interesting. Ever. Period. And this is a character that has been around now for DECADES.
You know whatd be a funny and stupid take on Lucius? Basically make him Gotrek from Warhammer Fantasy and AOS who's trying to die, but is really bad at it because of divine intervention
The error with lucius that everything cone to him to easy , like hell just give him a personal pride so high that he would DENIED death to think that he would lose to someone that better than him. Slaneesh is about “ extremes “ , if lucius have a Pride so fcking high that even Slaneesh can’t ignore and granted that power ( like at long at Lucius can still keep his pride over his opponents, then he could be reborn) The mine field just bullsh’t from my opinion
I feel you on this , when he was added he did not fit at all with awesome Slaanesh characters I always thought Fabius fit better than Lucious, as Fabius is clearly based on Dr Mangala who felt himself and his body too perfect to be marked with an SS tattoo. Also he is basically a deamon so why not make Doomrider his Champion. Doomrider was already the only deamon prince who did not have a clearly deamonic form.
I really dislike this silly hatred towards Lucius on the basis of immortality or being able to perpetually come back from the dead- because he’s far from the only one in our stories to have achieved this. Do we all suddenly hate Vulkan as well because he’s a perpetual? I seem to remember Konrad Kurze defeating him, torturing him, then defeating him again over the course of months, only for him to come right back to the fight on Ultramar. Curious that there’s no hate for Vulkans plot armour. Do we all hate every single Daemon and Daemon Primarch because they get to be reborn in the warp when they’re slain and have the ability to return from death? Is every traitor who ascended suddenly blacklisted by the community? Do we hate the Emperor himself for being a perpetual with endless rebirthing capabilities? The answer to all of these should be “of course not,” because to chock up all of these characters to simply one ability, to not die, and ignore the positive or intriguing writing around them that isn’t just fan fare to their insurmountable plot armour, would be really bizarre and one sided. Not to mention it’s a 40 year setting, there’s OBVIOUSLY gonna be characters that are gifted some sort of abilities like these to continue having a few consistent villains and heroes to cycle in and out as needed, and not all of them need to be sons of the emperor to gain it. I find Lucius hate from the community really strange for this reason, he’s just another chaos worshipper and elite character from the traitor legions, and I think he has way more merit than these sorts of people give him credit for.
I need Dante to kill him. Dante does what he has to and dreads when the sun rises. Dante will remove Lucius’s head and feel no pride, only grievance for killing a fellow Angel of Man. Lucius will be scared when he realizes what he faces.
It could be written interestingly, if the character was interesting and not a gimmick. Show some bitter tragic of the emperors children rather than a 90's marvel villian. I would be interested in a video of rare match ups in lore. Like if the tyrannids ever fought nurgle, or a charcarons vs. world eater, or of tau ever fought groots. The lore outcome of the massive orc planet versus tyrannid fight finally being resolved hurt my heart because NOTHING came of it. No crazy new mutated tyrannids, no super strong orks war bosses (or kroks) from unlimited face to face melee waves, than would then in turn be eaten and learned by the nids to make stronger nids. They seemed like they would endlessly level up off of each other to some crescendo that just didn't happen. Orks turn sunlight and moisture into endless biomass. It was the greatest wasted lore opportunity I can think of for both factions. As far as lucius... would you say you would be happy if he died? If they are going to push these limits, have a necron kill him and then give us a play by play of the explored psychology of a slannesh touched necron as the change happens. What would that change even be?
You totally know they wrote the part about the factory worker because of some drunk bar argument. -"lucious is on your planet, and you can't kill him, or you will become him!" "Uhhh yeah? Well I cover the entire planet with land mines and shoot all the guys who laid them!" -"What? Nuhuuuu! That won't work! He would.... uhhh.... possess they guy who made the landmines!"
Let’s not forget the time he took over a necron drone, a being that is little more than programming of what once was a living being dumbed down to little more than a mindless zombie thrall. Legit no soul. By that logic he could potentially take over a man of iron whose programmer has long since died.
@@diabrog I’d like to argue but frankly the idea that Zimmith 00010101010100 beating Lucius so bad in a sparkliest heresy contest is too funny to me. Lucius died of shame and added the one face that can’t scream cause it doesn’t have a soul to his armor. Just a weird quiet patch now shinier than the rest of him.
One interesting things about Lucious I will admit is that the Armor of Shrieking Souls constantly taunts Lucious and remind him of his failures to win his fights against them. That does play well into the Emperor's Children's theme of striving for perfection but never reaching it. Lucious is always going to be reminded of the fact he isn't the greatest warrior and it irks him in the back of his mind.
Fabius Bile is by far the better candidate for Avatar of Slaanesh. He is just as obsessive, he’s too prideful to accept that gods exist, and Slaanesh has him wrapped around her finger. Honestly, his books make him such a perfect champion of Slaanesh that he deserves to become her new favorite toy. Plus, it would be hilarious for Lucius to get all bitter and petulant because Slaanesh stopped treating him like he’s the hottest shit to ever exist. That’s my two cents on it.’
Except he's got one thing the worshippers of chaos largely don't: the will to innovate Fabius' talents would be put to much better use under the iron warriors
Slannesh can only do what slannesh knows. Fabius Bile is creating that new new sin that never been before and is best left to innovate. He might be her curiosity.
6:46 This right here is my main complaint about Lucius. They say he will be reincarnated into the body of his killer if the killer took any pleasure or satisfaction in killing him. There seems to be a lot of room where he could be killed easily, such as a simple orbital bombardment or a stray round from someone who didn’t even know they hit him, but then he reincarnates because a guy who made a land mine who killed him cared about his work in creating that mine, and APPARENTLY that satisfies the demands of the curse, when it really just feels like GW is making up the rules on the fly.
I think I read somewhere that even if he were nommed by a tyranid, it would still count because the tyranid would feel satisfaction at having a good meal.
I feel like there’s some genuine misunderstandings with the reason why Lucius’s powers work the way they do, and even how they do. It’s not necessarily that someone “must feel satisfaction” in his death, it’s less about the fact that he can reincarnate through others, and moreso meant to imply that only someone who truly doesn’t just loathe him as an enemy, but loves him as a friend and close companion, someone who would be distraught at his death, can survive killing him. And the bitter irony that is meant to be invoked by this, is that the only person capable of such feelings towards him were Saul Tarvitz, his best friend, and the man he betrayed on Istvaan. Only someone who loves him can survive killing him, someone who would mourn the loss of Lucius the man inside the armour- who he killed long ago. Pity the man who lives in this galaxy without love.
To be fair, IIRC, he's only lost about 10 times in 10000 years. The fanart gives him too many faces. The best part about his gift/curse is that he will *never* get to rematch anyone who beat him. He will always want to prove he is better, no matter how much better he gets he will never remove those wounds to his pride/ego. Slaanesh is not a nice person.
I think he's died specifically 7 times. The thing with the faces on his armour is even before his first death it was already covered in screaming faces, so it's impossible to know how many times he's died based off his armour.
The problem is that he is an Abaddon level villain where both have several losses that it hurts their image in the lore. It's a notable problem with how GW handles stories, even Angron and Mortarion get the short end of the stick even though they are daemonic demi gods.
My main issue with Lucius is that there are no stakes when he fights. If he wins, great. Victory and toe sucking all round. If he loses, give him 3-5 business days and he's back. Even thinking of a way to permanently dispose of him would constitute "pride" in orchestrating his downfall. Motherfuckers got an everything-proof shield, and GW have no reason to kill him. That being said, you'd imagine that a Nid or basic Necron would feel nothing about killing him, but I suppose he can just not fight the less sapient adversaries? I'd laugh my ass off if he got capped by a Termagant at some point.
He's been killed by a necron and he came back. The downside given for Lucius' recantation is he's bit by bit losing his soul and control of his body to some other entity and even Lucius doesn't know what the thing is.
@@JudgeNicodemus Kharn and Typhus likely to stay around as long as they're entertaining and get things done, Lucius has an expiry date that gets closer everytime he uses his namesake.
@@jamesmacken9501 yeah, because Kharn and Typhus are fun characters, Lucius as a character embodies the greatest sin a writer can make. He's just boring.
Imagine if somehow Lucius was killed by a Custodes from the inside of the Golden Palace. Im pretty sure GW in their infinit wisdom will say Lucius still could appear there, wreak havoc, and then leave. Then 7 years later retcon it.
I would like to imagine that after Lucious gets lucky with that one Custodian kill a bunch of other Custodians dogpile him and throw him into the Dark Cells where all the other bullshit overpowered stuff the Imperium can't conventionally deal with goes to rot.
In defense of the whole "Dying all the time thing", That is mostly down to him deliberately self nerfing and putting weird conditions on himself every time he fights, if he didn't fights would be too easy and boring for him and his patron god.
He also plays with his food to much. Plus he likes the pain... him "losing" isn't always because he was the weaker fighter. The man has beat a emperors champion in a duel. He is entirely unpredictable in a fight
@@conradlorgar5508nah more like he knows he can revive and is just bored of fighting the same way over and over again. It's like if you got so good at a game while just sticking to one playstyle and you get bored so you fck around or how some people play games with weird challenges like those "Can you beat Dark Souls with level 1 for all stat" or some sht. Personally best example, MGR: Revengeance, I just play the game without upgrading the sword, no secondary weapons, or utilities or recovery because it feels too easy for me but I still enjoy playing the game very much, I just do that because I find the challenge more fun Do I still die? Yes even if I don't find the game that difficult even with those limitations I still get a game over screen. Am I having fun? Yes because I enjoy the game and the challenge I made, plus I can just load last checkpoint if I die or start using recoveries if I ever really gave up. Am I an idiot? I guess I am but since it makes me enjoy it I wouldn't exactly call what I did a dumb move since it may be a challenge the main point is to have fun.
@@wufflemuffin9197 Lucius can't do that though. Yes, he revives but he can't go back and try again. Even if he did, he literally fucked around and found out. Either they're now a part of the armour, so he knows he never bested whoever killed him and is a constant reminder to his ego or he has to admit he was being childish about a battle he should be taking seriously as a avid swordsman. His ego is way too fragile to not try to be the best. Only thing coming back from the dead does is prove how much better someone else is than himself, he can even just look 90 degrees downwards and see for himself. You can do a Dark Souls run and try a challenge again & again & again until you get it right, it's nowhere near a comparison to Lucius' revivals or battles.
@@mouthyschannel2474 Ah yea that's true but that doesn't really disprove most of what I said, just that I was wrong about one thing. It doesn't change that Lucius challenges himself because of how bored he is and finds it more engaging He is having fun nerfing himself (unless he loses) He's not stupid but just incredibly arrogant and overconfident. The purpose of his self-imposed nerf was so he can find fights more fun, which he succeeded in doing to a degree. The analogy I gave is fine, I just need to replace some parts by saying, "Yes I can just retry (for Lucius case it's to respawn) but I can never forgive myself for dying to a single enemy. I have spent so much time getting better and you're telling me I die?"
I feel like Lucius sucks on purpose, Slaanesh feeds on all strong emotions, and the burning shame/rage Lucius feels every time he resurrects or even looks at the faces of his betters, permanently fused to his armor, is probably especially delicious.
Like most things in 40K I don't hate him in particular. I do *HATE* what the _writers_ do with him. You know that story where he died from a landmine and became and regenerated from the factory worker or from a literally emotionless soulless necron? Well the reason why that happened was because a writer saw a 40K forum about people discussing how to theoretically kill Lucius. This -dick- man saw fans of the franchise having fun discussing the setting and it's potential future and decided to invalidate all of it by proving that he is actually unkillable and the fan's strategy's are pointless. He didn't think to reward their efforts by using a similar strategy or doing something creative and put Lucius in a position were his immortality wouldn't save him and he had to rely on his other talents. No. He just drank the Dragon Ball BS power scaling Koolade and just made him mORe pOweRfUl. Also his most defining ability has no mechanic on the tabletop. Imagine if he had the ability to kill/teleport to the unit that killed him and what fun games that would create. Specifically using artillery at the edge of the map to remove him from key locations. Hectic kill chains. Willingly dying for the teleport. But no. He's just another chaos lord.
The face scarring was after he went and spoke to Serena, a remembrancer on with the emperor's children, and she told him that she would cut herself for everything that wronged her, so that she'd never forget. Lucius took up this and made 2 parallel scars on his face with Serena's knife, so that he could never forget what lokan did to him (punched his face).
I want one of three things to happen to Lucius. Either he dies from a natural disaster, gets killed by a Tyranid, or Trazyn kidnaps his ass. So he spends the rest of eternity in stasis.
I feel like Slaneshi characters have to be given intricate reasons to exist, if Khorne is the simplest chaos god, Slanesh is the most complicated. All other chaos gods have cool followers by default, Khorne has blood thirsty followers that live for the fight, Nurgle has unstoppable plague bearing followers that dont feel pain and seem to be in perpetual bliss, Tzeench has unkowable and all powerfull followers that have sick magic powers. Slanesh has narcissistic followers that cant get anything done, wich is sad for a chaos god that embodies ambition, passion and the pursuit of perfection, like come on, whats more relatable than that? you could make awsome characters with the broad range of ideologies that align with slanesh in some way, but we just get depraved and depressed types. Make me root for slanesh like i root for Khornes followers because they are so cool sometimes i forget they are the bad guys
If I could do a headcannon/rework of Lucius I would probably turn his "gift" of resurrection into a monkey's paw of sorts You see, his gift of resurrection only works if people take satisfaction in his death. This means (at least in his mind) that he can never truly connect with people without risking his very soul. Lucius in this version would always have craved connection. He's always desperately craved to be liked and understood for who he is. And even to this day some of this desire still survives in some twisted way. Yet he als knows that to make himself vulnerable like that now would risk his very soul. Like, say he wanted to get a genuine friend (at least, as genuine as you can get in a chaos legion). He might be able to do it now - the gifts of Slaanesh can make a man very charismatic after all. Yet what if a friendly scrap got out of hand and his new friend somehow struck him in just the right place? Or what if he killed him by accident or...? His new friend might be too horrified to feel any satisfaction, and Lucius would go straight to Slaanesh. And in secret Lucius is absolutely terrified of the idea of spending all of eternity trapped in Slaanesh's realm, as trapped and alone as the faces on his armour. So the only way for him to be safe is to make sure that everyone -even his own warband - absolutely hates his fucking guts. That's the sick joke Slaanesh played on their favorite servant. Lucius' gift constantly leaves him so close to what he wants, yet for his own safety he has to actively deny it every single day of his life.
Man, imagine a perspective where enters his room and his face just drops and it's dead silent and the pink hue is replaced by a somber dark purple black hue and he just collapses into a chair, his eyes without color, black, and just still and with posture of defeat, with a crushing lonely atmosphere, completely at odds with how he is outside, and he HATES IT, it crushes him, but he has just a spark of hope he won't be alone, which is only eclipsed by his fear of actually dying, that he succumbs to doing what he hates and being what he hates, just to survive, out of desire not to die, so that he can always be the best, and for him to have a Lucid understanding that this is a curse, and he HATES it, and hates more how he has to embrace it.... Or else. Edit: Oh my god, it would be the perfect pain of never being loved as a narcissist, with the pleasure of always being the best of a narcissist. It would be the most poetic, fittingly, of all the Chaos Champions.
I’m starting an Emperor’s Children army- loving the lore for them! Also since your reaction to Lucius is so negative that probably means they did a good job making him being so hated- I assume that was the writer’s intent with this character.
He’s not hated for being a shitty person or doing something horrible. He’s hated for being poorly written (in the current 40k time) and has immense plot armour that makes no sense sometimes
as mentioned in the video. his one gimmick is that he cant die.. so why should we care about the character at all? even if he does get killed we know hes just gonna come back to ruin the day once again, and its not even done in a good way. just a bad character all around. they wrote amazing loyalist EC during the HH series. Saul Tarvitz and Rylanor being the most obvious examples. So its just frustrating to see this walking scrotum be the only option for a 'champion of slaanesh' besides Fulgrim himself.
@@jm329 The circumstances around it is what is bullshit. They establish rules for his ability, which is that he can possess people that defeated him and took pride in his death. Yet showed cases like the land mine thing, where he possessed the dude who made the land mine who didn't even know he existed because that person took pride in making a weapon for the Imperium. Even worse, he possess a fucking Necron, a being that has neither a soul, organic body, nor a mind capable of feeling pride because it is a mindless machine. By that logic, he could possess a rock that fell on his head and killed him. His power was great in concept, but just awful at execution. It's like a child saying "No you cant kill me, I activated my immortality shield".
imagine some guy, say a marine in ancient armor and weapons whose makers are all dead. He goes and kills lucius in combat and immediately after kills himself. Who is Lucius gonna take over?
If he did it by bolt round. The round maker would die. If it was by power weapon it would be by whoever last did the machine blessings. If by orbital laser, one of the crew that works on the laser or works in the reactor of the ship or the commanding officer of the ship who ordered the shot. If not them? Then the overall commander, who was unaware of his death but felt satisfaction that his campaign looked like it would be wrapping up soon and the sector would be saved etc. Etc. And so on and so forth. Technically this could reach all the way back to rowboat guillotine if no one felt pride prior as he is the lord commander of the imperium.
@crowbell3059 that would require nobility. He doesn't have the good grace to kill himself in mine craft. A true impossibility. He'd sooner turn to the worship of gork n Mork than kill himself.
Ya know, if they had to make a rebirth character, it would be better if it was a Nurgle champion that infects who kills them, and the disease turns them into the champion
Honestly Lucius should have died a long time ago, with bile becoming the main slannesh champion similarly to Ahriman. That one but about his resurrection diluting his title of master swordsman hit the mail on the head- of you basically can be resurrected anytime you loose then how can you truly be taken seriously as a fighter. I think an interesting take on the character would to have people just… refuse to fight him. Like he would try and fight Kharn the betrayer but would be ignored because Kharn doesn’t want to fight with such a dishonorable fighter who’s such a sore looser he possesses anyone beats him. I think it could then result in slannesh s gift actually becoming a curse because Lucius will never be taken seriously, which for a person like him is a fate worse than death
Slaanesh’s gift is a curse to Lucius because he can no longer improve his skills as a swordsman. If he beats someone he doesn’t get any satisfaction from the fight because he was already better than them, if they win they will forever be better than him and he will never get a rematch because they will be possessed. Slaanesh’s cruel joke on him is made worse because Lucius declared himself the “greatest swordsman” and he will never be able to prove it.
*Khorne's Champion:* Consumed by rage, expemplifies his master's creed. Entire armies have to account for him as an army unto himself in their strategies. *Nurgle's Champion:* The one who delivered his legion to Nurgle and fully embraced the gifts in the same instance himself. A magnificent embodiment of decay and rebirth that can start a world-ending plague by being in the world's airsoace for 5 seconds. *Tzeentch's Champion:* A mastermind who weaves chaos into magic with ease. A walking encyclopedia of forbidden lore who ever strives to know it all. And delivers all that knowledge to Tzeentch at the same time, intentionally ir not. *Slaanesh's Champion:* _Prep kid with "restart from last checkpoint" save. And still plays on "easy."_
His post heresy/modern era stuff is pretty good imo. His warband has some cool characters, he’s pretty funny, all his warriors/friends hate him and want him to die too.
I don't think Lucius is a bad character, I think he is interesting and I like the idea that he is favored BC of his devotion to perfecting his craft. I just hate this idea of his plot armor that allows him to return at all times. Its makes sense in some ways, but then like you mentioned the factory worker thing. He is favored by his patron god then why do we need a reason he can ressurrect at all. The big 4 can simply bring anyone they want back at any time, how is it Lucius needs to be that special in that way. There is almost know way to legit kill him in accordance to the lore and that makes it dumb. There needs to be a retcon that he only possesses anyone who kills him in combat face to face.
I agree with you, and you made an excellent point about him being a master swordsman. The fact that he'll just always come back really defeats the purpose of him being a master swordsman.
I always thought Fabius Bile was the unsung Champion of The Emperor's Children? His obsession with creating "perfection" is totally a 3rd Legion thing.
@@LowlandGames I mean, aren't all the Chaos Chapters kinda all at war within? I would think Fabius's experiments probably have gained him a lot of favor with Slaanesh.
@@RogueBlood343 I mean, I suppose you're right? It just seems like a hella waste of an interesting story. The Unwilling Spider of Slaanesh has a real sadistic kinda air about it LOL.
@@LowlandGames so? Ahriman was literally exiled until only recently by his own primarch and fellow sorcerers due to his mistake with the rubric. Kharn was named the betrayer because he set half his legion on fire for daring to have common sense. Typhus is despised by his own primarch and fellow warriors for tricking them into becoming literal walking diseases, the only reason he hasn't been gangbamged by his fellow legionaries and primar h 8s because of Nurgle's will itself.
Sharrowkyn later died fighting traitors on Luna during the Siege of Terra. On the door where his body was found, there was a message saying ‘Sangprimus Portum’…
horrific zombie post, but that Raven Guard is Nykona Sharrowkyn, and after killing Lucius, was put into stasis with the Sangprimus Portum artifact. Though the artifact was retrieved, it's uncertain where Sharrowkyn is currently but he is most likely alive
Was there ever a situation where someone that bested him felt satisfaction later on afterward? Like at first they didn’t care but later on they reminded of what a smug bastard he was, they get a little smirk on their face; next stop shrieking skulls in a suit of armor.
Yeah there was, a Raven Guard captain killed him and felt absolutely nothing... And yet Lucius still came back, just not in his body! Aka bullshit resurrection powers again. Now they shifted the goalpost that Lucius will only die for good if his killer feels nothing but pity and remorse for Lucius, which Lucius "preemptively counters" by being literally the worst creatures in ten systems around, so everybody feels at least some hatred for him.
I think the only way to permanently kill him would either be from a blank or have a demon of a different god kill him. I only think that would work because slaanesha's power wouldn't extend to like Magnus or angron
Honestly I liked PRE-TERNAL Lucius, he had a real heartfelt moment with Tarvitz on IV3 aft Tarvitz saved his life, he showed real humility…. even IF he was planning on betraying TF out of everyone to get back in the 3rd. I think you’re right about the blank or null like what if Dorn just loosed all the sisters of silence on him at the same time?!?! THAT WOULD BE A SIIIICK SHOWDOWN!!
Trully compared to the other chaos champions, lucius is kinda pathetic and annoying , honestly fabulous Bill make a better champion and still fit in the slaneesh's whole deal . But honestly a whole New character maybe one clinging to the emperors children original Quest of beauty and perfection but in a Twisted way
I hope when they bring back fulgrim and the emperors children the first thing they do is have Lucius shot by a necron, or Tyranid and killed forever. Or get him trapped on an Ork ship where he’s constantly being revived, but killed by another ork before he can properly transfer, in an infinite loop of pain and death that would make even an emperors children uncomfortable after a couple years
He has already previously been killed by a necron warrior before, an unfeeling, emotionless killing machine and he was still able to take over the necrons body. Doesn't matter what situation you put him in he always comes back due to some stupid contrived reason. Pretty sure it's also canon that if he ever were to die in a way that he can't come back from Slaneesh itself will just respawn him anyway.
wasnt there a story where a necron warrior killed Lucius and "took pride" in it so Lucius came back? not sure if that was rc'd or not but it sucks either way
Isnt the first captain of the Emp-Children, still around leading war-bands of the EC around? I forgot his name. The guy that got decapitated for annoying Fulgrim, but got his head sewn back on by fabius…
I, too, hate Lucius. He's a swordsman who'se been beaten AND killed in SWORDFIGHTS. Multiple times. How many times has Kharn lost a fight? Huh?! At least he lost to Sigismund! Lucius is a chump with a handicap. Plus, his OWN primarch screwed him over by cursing Roboute with never feeling pride in anything he does ever again. Essentially, Fulgrim game Roboute the tool he needs to kill Lucius for good.
There's a few OG named characters kicking. Fabius, Fulgrim, Lucius, Eidolon. Plus whoever GW makes up later. As an aside, when Lucius revived in the dude who made the mine, his very first thought upon learning that was "I'm going to have to kill so many people to stop this from spreading."
Still. Pretty funny that there's this factory world churning out landmines that can just straight up one shot chaos space marines. Makes sense I guess given the powerful explosives that exist in 40k but it just makes me wonder why we don't have far far more space marines getting killed by land mines and my only Watsonian explaination (that is to say an in universe explaination) is that the majority of space marines have such sharp senses and quick reaction times that they just identify and avoid the majority of mines. Which means that Lucius fucked up so badly, he made a blunder that even normal astartes without his millennia of experience or the powers of chaos usually avoid. Which is very funny. He was so obsessed with whatever he was doing he stepped on a mine and died.
The thing I like about Lucius’ ability is that when he gets the curse it no longer matters when he fights. He loses the joy of sword fighting, for two reasons. One because there’s no consequence to his death. And two, because he can never fight the person again. He can never beat them. So he is eternally second to them entirely because of his curse. It’s actually a brilliant idea. I love Lucius. He’s like Erebus where you love to hate him. But when you delve into his character it’s actually really sad. I mean, he deserves it. But still.
Eidolon is still around. There's actually quite a few left around from the heresy. Most sit on "The Phoenix Council," headed by Eidolon himself. Though by the state of the current canon... Yeah Eidolon is a monster onto himself. As in Fabulous Bill himself, the creep who resurrected his ass after Fulgrim lopped off his head and dunked it into a vat of wine, doesn't want to be anywhere near him. The same Fabius Bile who made offshoots of the space marines that are able to reproduce without humans and are actively worshiping him as a god such that he's a minor chaos god. The same Fabius Bile who hung out with the Dark Eldar and who was taught the secrets of their Haemonculae, looked at whatever the hell Eidolon is turning into and said "oh hell to the fuck to the no" and got the fuck out of Dodge.
I never tried to rules-lawyer a way to kill Lucius with his resurrection mechanics in mind, cause Slaanesh can just disregard that. No I've always immediately went for the nuclear option. That being what the Emperor did to Horus or Ahriman did to Othyr Wyrdmake: just delete his Soul
i guess a blank also works, since they're completely detached from warp energy and basically have no emotions or reactions to speak off. its in their name after all....
Yeah, nah. Lucius blows. He's just a bland uninteresting character. Personally, I'd love to see the Emp's Kiddos be less like something. Out of a German S&M magazine and more like the Hellraiser Cenobites. But hey, that's just me.
Lucius the Eternal revives not because of some "satisfaction". Its just because Slaanesh thinks its funny
It's because Slannesh feeds from the pain and anguish that 40k fans feel just for the sheer fact that Lucius exists.
I remember that someone killed him without feeling any pride and he didn't resurrect but Chaos characters just can't die when they should so Slannesh resurrected him bruh
@@thepoliticalgunnut8018 honestly that makes more sense, either way, stick him in a modified dreadnought cofin and bary it in some foreworld
@@wedoalittleeco-trolling9126 He did it for the lolz scgadenfreude is a strong emotion 😉
@@wedoalittleeco-trolling9126 That was pre-curse and Fabius brought him back
Nykona Sharrowkyn was an absolute chad for the way he disrespected Lucius when he killed him.
You got me there for a second, I thought that was MY pill alarm going off.
I have an unpublished fan fiction where my self insert spends his time hunting down and murdering Lucius with utter disgust in his heart. Waiting for Slaanesh to get bored and respawn Lucius anyway (because that is apparently a thing in the lore), then hunting him down with the aid of hired night lords and murdering him again. Over and over again. This fan fiction will never even be written, but I carry it with me in my heart.
It would be ten times scarier if Lucius wasn't a dude possessing people but a title that people could take. Say, for instance, a person kills Lucius and was an exceptionally good commander. Welp, he starts calling himself Lucius and eventually becomes Lucius (astartes implants and all) and thinks he is immortal. He makes a sword just like the original Lucius' and he has all of the original Lucius' skills and his new leadership abilities. The armor and whip grow in and the new Lucius always, eventually goes back to the Emperor's children and tries to lead them.
Now, stick with me here. Make it where there are at least 5 Lucius running around right now. Make it where, if Lucius dies, if anyone, ANYONE knew about it and felt pride, happiness, etc, they could go down that spiral. Makes him a cognitohazard that the Inquisition has more of a reason to keep on the down-low. If they don't and news of his death spreads, entire worlds could become Lucius.
Lucius isn't as pretentious now, eh? They are scary as fuck like that. Granted, this sounds more of an Alpha Legion champion now tho.
I really hate Lucius' respawn power. You really reminded me how much I hated it after the engineer dying for no real reason, and becoming lucius
It's the kind of thing that is really cool IN CONCEPT, but in execution is just dumber than a box of rocks.
I guess next time they could beat him without killing him and lock him somewhere for eternity. Sounds like a job for Trazyn
The funniest thing they could do with his character is have him get killed and not come back.
I see so many posts, videos, etc, about how people hate Lucius...I think his entire story and concept of rebirth is amazing. Probably my favorite character in the lore right now, and one of the reasons I chose to pursue making my own warband as a custom group from the Emperor's Children.
A lot of people (in my experience) dislike him because he has a cheat button that prevents him from matching up with any hero from the lore; And correct me if I'm wrong, but no one is immune to this revive button, since he even revived himself from a Necron (Who have been effectively emotion and free-will wiped, at least on the general infantry end).
When a character has no stakes, its hard to enjoy them.. and when the heroes can never really win against them, it becomes annoying.
@@frostmagemarii I mean, if that's why people post hate about him, that's fine. I think that's what makes him so interesting. Time for him to lose to a Primarch I guess, lets see what he can really do. lol.
Yeah thats the thing, given how bullshit his ability is he could probably kill the Emperor by dying and possessing him. I agree its a good ability in concept, but taken too far to the point its just playground talk.
It's not that people don't like him because he's too strong, Warhammer is no stranger to overly powerful characters. Its that doesn't even follow the basic rules established because he literally possessed a Necron; a soulless, unfeeling, cold, mechanical shell. That means he can probably possess a random rock that fell on his head. What he "can" do doesn't matter if all he needs to do is die to win the fight against anyone.
@@analogicaleuphimism2078 I think its awesome lol
Excited to see your video about Fabulous Billy.
Xantine and Eidelon are alive and Rylanor was until recently.
The only real reason I like him is because I think he encapsulates what the Champion of a demon god of pain would be
They need to take inspiration Resident Evil for Lucius with his flesh whip.
If they want him taken seriously in any way, he needs a new book with some serious work put in but the best option is to just kill him off for good (mechanicus would be perfect) and find a new champion of the Dark Prince.
Step 1: Throw him at the Tyranids or Clonegrim.
Step 2: Popcorn.
Step 3: Hope GW doesn't do something stupid. (Optional)
I used to hate Lucius too. Then i saw the hammer and bolter episode about him. “I would die to find you.” Sooo good
You make super entertaining and fun videos man
My question is: What is the time frame for the curse to trigger? Like if someone kills Lucius and is just grateful that they’re alive in the moment and then they later get a medal or something for service in the conflict where they killed Lucius and they’re proud of that, does that trigger the curse? I know that part of how Slaanesh corrupts is getting in through the little slip-ups, a little extra gold here and suddenly you’re a statue in a garden of statues sort of thing, but is there no limit on when the curse will trigger in lore, just that it will?
The Chaos gods did not give them deamonhood not because they are not worthy but because they needed 'mortal' generals to lead wars in real space, tbh i think they are more powerful than some greater deamons.
But i do agree, everybody hates Lucius. His power is just bad. not that it isnt OP its just bad! , like you win by losing to someome who is better than you.
So.... pretty sure he is as hated as you think.
For me, I love the idea that he is probably the best possible weapon that can be used against the empire though..... if anyone would actually use him right.
For example: You set down on a planet that has a primarch. This primarch has been fucking up your day. OK.... Send Lucius down there to challenge him to one on one combat.....
Oh look, Lucius is dead. Guess we all have to leave now because of that..... *Wait a few days*
Oh hey look, that entire legion now no longer has their primarch and is in complete disarray, lets go back there and fuck them up.
Yeah nah lucius wont be able to transform a primarch simply cause primarchs have minor warp gods for a soul
@@samrein9919not just that but primarchs would most likely be protective by the emperor/chaos god
If guilliman kill Lucius its over, guilliman can't fell any positive emotion because fulgrim and Slanesh curse him.
@aloxpeexd302 They confirmed that you don't actually need satisfaction from killing Lucius to transform. In an interview, one of the writers, I forgot which one, said that even a Necron can be cursed because it understands that it accomplished a protocol.
@@drakor98 THATS SO FUCKIN BS, my hate for lucius has incresed a 100%, my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined
At least he hosts a good talk show with Ahriman.
Dying from a simple landmine is f ing lame for a Space Marines even if he come back
What if a man with no living parents or relatives killed him while naked with nothing but his hands, and nobody sent him to do it, and the guy had coincidentally had all his emotions removed prior(with no intent for him to be going after Lucius). Then this hypothetical guy offs himself after taking out Lucius. What then? I don't even think there's a loophole for it.
My favorite summery of this bastard is Fabious Bile is the true champion (whether he likes it or not), Lucius is just a plaything that Slaanesh pities.
His resurrection means he can never ever beat someone who has bested him, he's always the loser that comes back destined to keep losing
I wish Saul capped his ass in "Galaxy In Flames" 😤
I'm hoping he catches the godblight
Horus Heresy Lucius is interesting. Post-curse Lucius sucketh
The land mine thing is so bullshit like, literally let’s say, the man himself, Rubberboot Guiltyman could literally accidentally slash Lucius in half when he was tearing into traitors unknowingly and *theoretically* could be turned into Lucius because he took pride in his swordsmanship. Though that would never happen since the BigE would rip Slaneesh a new permanent hole it never wanted if it tried.
I liked Lucius in the first couple Heresy series books. He was a little high strung, but had a core of honor and justified pride in his own skilled. I loved his whole thing about with those Xenos on planet Murder; after seeing his weapons doing next to nothing against their chitin armor, and see how easily their claw arms tore through Space Marine armor, he RIPPED OFF its armor, made a guard out of straps, and started absolutely wrecking them thereafter.
His face scaring has a decent air of tragedy, too, because of his brief connection with the tortured artist girl from the Fulgrim Heresy book. His reaction to basically being damned by association on Istvaan III is also understandable, too.
His Slannesh gift would be genuinely amazing as well, but Slannesh just deciding to bring him back whenever makes him cheap and only highlights how nothing his character is post-Heresy.
Wait if Lucius had a “boyish face.” Does that technically make him a femboy???
how could you say something so controversial yet so brave?
Time to change Slannesh Champion
I like luscious lucious but understand why some dont. I remember thinking his model was so cool XD and the og noise marines. Oh how times change
People that hate him Will never be able to kill him
Yea he feels like the only one of the four who didnt earn his place. He really just got lucky that his pretty face fulfilled slaanesh' fetish.
Although honestly, thats kinda fitting for slaanesh.
Have you tried him with splenda
Until GW acknowledge that Sex Is A Thing, Slaanesh/Slaaneshi/Emperor's Children will always be badly written. Fuck Lucius.
Absolutely love the bit in the book Angel Exterminatus I think it's that one when Lucius goes fucking mental and starts just killing everyone then stops and just screetches " SLAAAANESH"
The only depiction of Lucius I’ve ever liked was the one in TTS
You didn’t pronounce Kharn as Kern did you ? 😢
How can he be this amazing swrodsman and keep loosing all the time? Fist time I heard about him I was like "cool!" then I though for 2 sec and then "lame" :(
I fucking hate him so much and it makes me upset that the only good Lucius moment I can think of was that episode of Hammer and Bolter that he got. That is literally the ONLY TIME he has ever been interesting. Ever. Period. And this is a character that has been around now for DECADES.
You know whatd be a funny and stupid take on Lucius? Basically make him Gotrek from Warhammer Fantasy and AOS who's trying to die, but is really bad at it because of divine intervention
The error with lucius that everything cone to him to easy , like hell just give him a personal pride so high that he would DENIED death to think that he would lose to someone that better than him.
Slaneesh is about “ extremes “ , if lucius have a Pride so fcking high that even Slaneesh can’t ignore and granted that power ( like at long at Lucius can still keep his pride over his opponents, then he could be reborn)
The mine field just bullsh’t from my opinion
what if you killed him and then killed yourself? would that stop luciousfrom returning?
I feel you on this , when he was added he did not fit at all with awesome Slaanesh characters I always thought Fabius fit better than Lucious, as Fabius is clearly based on Dr Mangala who felt himself and his body too perfect to be marked with an SS tattoo. Also he is basically a deamon so why not make Doomrider his Champion. Doomrider was already the only deamon prince who did not have a clearly deamonic form.
I really dislike this silly hatred towards Lucius on the basis of immortality or being able to perpetually come back from the dead- because he’s far from the only one in our stories to have achieved this.
Do we all suddenly hate Vulkan as well because he’s a perpetual? I seem to remember Konrad Kurze defeating him, torturing him, then defeating him again over the course of months, only for him to come right back to the fight on Ultramar. Curious that there’s no hate for Vulkans plot armour.
Do we all hate every single Daemon and Daemon Primarch because they get to be reborn in the warp when they’re slain and have the ability to return from death? Is every traitor who ascended suddenly blacklisted by the community?
Do we hate the Emperor himself for being a perpetual with endless rebirthing capabilities?
The answer to all of these should be “of course not,” because to chock up all of these characters to simply one ability, to not die, and ignore the positive or intriguing writing around them that isn’t just fan fare to their insurmountable plot armour, would be really bizarre and one sided. Not to mention it’s a 40 year setting, there’s OBVIOUSLY gonna be characters that are gifted some sort of abilities like these to continue having a few consistent villains and heroes to cycle in and out as needed, and not all of them need to be sons of the emperor to gain it.
I find Lucius hate from the community really strange for this reason, he’s just another chaos worshipper and elite character from the traitor legions, and I think he has way more merit than these sorts of people give him credit for.
at least he isnt erebus. i guess
when Kharn?
I need Dante to kill him. Dante does what he has to and dreads when the sun rises. Dante will remove Lucius’s head and feel no pride, only grievance for killing a fellow Angel of Man. Lucius will be scared when he realizes what he faces.
It could be written interestingly, if the character was interesting and not a gimmick. Show some bitter tragic of the emperors children rather than a 90's marvel villian.
I would be interested in a video of rare match ups in lore. Like if the tyrannids ever fought nurgle, or a charcarons vs. world eater, or of tau ever fought groots.
The lore outcome of the massive orc planet versus tyrannid fight finally being resolved hurt my heart because NOTHING came of it. No crazy new mutated tyrannids, no super strong orks war bosses (or kroks) from unlimited face to face melee waves, than would then in turn be eaten and learned by the nids to make stronger nids. They seemed like they would endlessly level up off of each other to some crescendo that just didn't happen. Orks turn sunlight and moisture into endless biomass. It was the greatest wasted lore opportunity I can think of for both factions.
As far as lucius... would you say you would be happy if he died? If they are going to push these limits, have a necron kill him and then give us a play by play of the explored psychology of a slannesh touched necron as the change happens. What would that change even be?
You totally know they wrote the part about the factory worker because of some drunk bar argument.
-"lucious is on your planet, and you can't kill him, or you will become him!"
"Uhhh yeah? Well I cover the entire planet with land mines and shoot all the guys who laid them!"
-"What? Nuhuuuu! That won't work! He would.... uhhh.... possess they guy who made the landmines!"
Let’s not forget the time he took over a necron drone, a being that is little more than programming of what once was a living being dumbed down to little more than a mindless zombie thrall. Legit no soul. By that logic he could potentially take over a man of iron whose programmer has long since died.
@@JustSomeDude42 hey, necron warrior zimmith 00010101010100 didn't have much left of his mind but pride in how shiny he is
@@diabrog I’d like to argue but frankly the idea that Zimmith 00010101010100 beating Lucius so bad in a sparkliest heresy contest is too funny to me. Lucius died of shame and added the one face that can’t scream cause it doesn’t have a soul to his armor. Just a weird quiet patch now shinier than the rest of him.
@@JustSomeDude42Chaos be chaosing
Far as I know, it's not that far off - I'm like 90% sure that argument is how it went lol
One interesting things about Lucious I will admit is that the Armor of Shrieking Souls constantly taunts Lucious and remind him of his failures to win his fights against them. That does play well into the Emperor's Children's theme of striving for perfection but never reaching it. Lucious is always going to be reminded of the fact he isn't the greatest warrior and it irks him in the back of his mind.
I can imagine Tobias being like "Hey Lucy, careful not to trip and fall face first on another landmine"
Fabius Bile is by far the better candidate for Avatar of Slaanesh. He is just as obsessive, he’s too prideful to accept that gods exist, and Slaanesh has him wrapped around her finger. Honestly, his books make him such a perfect champion of Slaanesh that he deserves to become her new favorite toy. Plus, it would be hilarious for Lucius to get all bitter and petulant because Slaanesh stopped treating him like he’s the hottest shit to ever exist. That’s my two cents on it.’
Except he's got one thing the worshippers of chaos largely don't: the will to innovate
Fabius' talents would be put to much better use under the iron warriors
Slannesh can only do what slannesh knows. Fabius Bile is creating that new new sin that never been before and is best left to innovate. He might be her curiosity.
@@discipleofdagon8195he would chaff under the demand of results.
@@KCUFyoufordoxingme he'd probably cook up something ungodly with honsou
>Slaanesh
>her
the most interesting thing I find about Lucius is his relationship with Soul Tarvits, and the tragedy of their falling out.
6:46 This right here is my main complaint about Lucius. They say he will be reincarnated into the body of his killer if the killer took any pleasure or satisfaction in killing him. There seems to be a lot of room where he could be killed easily, such as a simple orbital bombardment or a stray round from someone who didn’t even know they hit him, but then he reincarnates because a guy who made a land mine who killed him cared about his work in creating that mine, and APPARENTLY that satisfies the demands of the curse, when it really just feels like GW is making up the rules on the fly.
I think I read somewhere that even if he were nommed by a tyranid, it would still count because the tyranid would feel satisfaction at having a good meal.
I feel like there’s some genuine misunderstandings with the reason why Lucius’s powers work the way they do, and even how they do. It’s not necessarily that someone “must feel satisfaction” in his death, it’s less about the fact that he can reincarnate through others, and moreso meant to imply that only someone who truly doesn’t just loathe him as an enemy, but loves him as a friend and close companion, someone who would be distraught at his death, can survive killing him. And the bitter irony that is meant to be invoked by this, is that the only person capable of such feelings towards him were Saul Tarvitz, his best friend, and the man he betrayed on Istvaan. Only someone who loves him can survive killing him, someone who would mourn the loss of Lucius the man inside the armour- who he killed long ago. Pity the man who lives in this galaxy without love.
Also it's nonsense
Ain't there a single factory worker on Earth who is proud of his work and in 40k especially not
To be fair, IIRC, he's only lost about 10 times in 10000 years. The fanart gives him too many faces.
The best part about his gift/curse is that he will *never* get to rematch anyone who beat him. He will always want to prove he is better, no matter how much better he gets he will never remove those wounds to his pride/ego. Slaanesh is not a nice person.
I think he's died specifically 7 times. The thing with the faces on his armour is even before his first death it was already covered in screaming faces, so it's impossible to know how many times he's died based off his armour.
Thays a really good point!
You say that but that's still more deaths than the vast majority of chaos astartes have because they dont get a get out of death free card
Dunno man, the artwork at 0:53 is from Black Library and those are a lot faces.
The problem is that he is an Abaddon level villain where both have several losses that it hurts their image in the lore. It's a notable problem with how GW handles stories, even Angron and Mortarion get the short end of the stick even though they are daemonic demi gods.
My main issue with Lucius is that there are no stakes when he fights. If he wins, great. Victory and toe sucking all round. If he loses, give him 3-5 business days and he's back. Even thinking of a way to permanently dispose of him would constitute "pride" in orchestrating his downfall. Motherfuckers got an everything-proof shield, and GW have no reason to kill him.
That being said, you'd imagine that a Nid or basic Necron would feel nothing about killing him, but I suppose he can just not fight the less sapient adversaries? I'd laugh my ass off if he got capped by a Termagant at some point.
He's been killed by a necron and he came back. The downside given for Lucius' recantation is he's bit by bit losing his soul and control of his body to some other entity and even Lucius doesn't know what the thing is.
@@jamesmacken9501 Oh boo hoo he's a fucking chaos worshipper. 1 in 2 deals with that everyday
@@jamesmacken9501so's like, every other chaos worshipping fool?
@@JudgeNicodemus Kharn and Typhus likely to stay around as long as they're entertaining and get things done, Lucius has an expiry date that gets closer everytime he uses his namesake.
@@jamesmacken9501 yeah, because Kharn and Typhus are fun characters, Lucius as a character embodies the greatest sin a writer can make. He's just boring.
Imagine if somehow Lucius was killed by a Custodes from the inside of the Golden Palace.
Im pretty sure GW in their infinit wisdom will say Lucius still could appear there, wreak havoc, and then leave.
Then 7 years later retcon it.
I would like to imagine that after Lucious gets lucky with that one Custodian kill a bunch of other Custodians dogpile him and throw him into the Dark Cells where all the other bullshit overpowered stuff the Imperium can't conventionally deal with goes to rot.
@@anthonyrodriguez8788lucius getting spartan kicked into a really deep hole 😂
In defense of the whole "Dying all the time thing", That is mostly down to him deliberately self nerfing and putting weird conditions on himself every time he fights, if he didn't fights would be too easy and boring for him and his patron god.
He also plays with his food to much. Plus he likes the pain... him "losing" isn't always because he was the weaker fighter. The man has beat a emperors champion in a duel. He is entirely unpredictable in a fight
@@TheHinni1234so he lost because hes stupid rather than less skilled smh
@@conradlorgar5508nah more like he knows he can revive and is just bored of fighting the same way over and over again. It's like if you got so good at a game while just sticking to one playstyle and you get bored so you fck around or how some people play games with weird challenges like those "Can you beat Dark Souls with level 1 for all stat" or some sht. Personally best example, MGR: Revengeance, I just play the game without upgrading the sword, no secondary weapons, or utilities or recovery because it feels too easy for me but I still enjoy playing the game very much, I just do that because I find the challenge more fun
Do I still die? Yes even if I don't find the game that difficult even with those limitations I still get a game over screen. Am I having fun? Yes because I enjoy the game and the challenge I made, plus I can just load last checkpoint if I die or start using recoveries if I ever really gave up. Am I an idiot? I guess I am but since it makes me enjoy it I wouldn't exactly call what I did a dumb move since it may be a challenge the main point is to have fun.
@@wufflemuffin9197 Lucius can't do that though. Yes, he revives but he can't go back and try again. Even if he did, he literally fucked around and found out. Either they're now a part of the armour, so he knows he never bested whoever killed him and is a constant reminder to his ego or he has to admit he was being childish about a battle he should be taking seriously as a avid swordsman. His ego is way too fragile to not try to be the best. Only thing coming back from the dead does is prove how much better someone else is than himself, he can even just look 90 degrees downwards and see for himself.
You can do a Dark Souls run and try a challenge again & again & again until you get it right, it's nowhere near a comparison to Lucius' revivals or battles.
@@mouthyschannel2474 Ah yea that's true but that doesn't really disprove most of what I said, just that I was wrong about one thing.
It doesn't change that Lucius challenges himself because of how bored he is and finds it more engaging
He is having fun nerfing himself (unless he loses)
He's not stupid but just incredibly arrogant and overconfident. The purpose of his self-imposed nerf was so he can find fights more fun, which he succeeded in doing to a degree.
The analogy I gave is fine, I just need to replace some parts by saying, "Yes I can just retry (for Lucius case it's to respawn) but I can never forgive myself for dying to a single enemy. I have spent so much time getting better and you're telling me I die?"
I feel like Lucius sucks on purpose, Slaanesh feeds on all strong emotions, and the burning shame/rage Lucius feels every time he resurrects or even looks at the faces of his betters, permanently fused to his armor, is probably especially delicious.
All chaos gods feed on strong emotions. Not just slaneesh though i dont think you meant that, easily read that way though!
@@Hiihtopipaall chaos gods feed on emotions, Slaanesh feeds on emotion full stop
Like most things in 40K I don't hate him in particular. I do *HATE* what the _writers_ do with him. You know that story where he died from a landmine and became and regenerated from the factory worker or from a literally emotionless soulless necron? Well the reason why that happened was because a writer saw a 40K forum about people discussing how to theoretically kill Lucius. This -dick- man saw fans of the franchise having fun discussing the setting and it's potential future and decided to invalidate all of it by proving that he is actually unkillable and the fan's strategy's are pointless. He didn't think to reward their efforts by using a similar strategy or doing something creative and put Lucius in a position were his immortality wouldn't save him and he had to rely on his other talents. No. He just drank the Dragon Ball BS power scaling Koolade and just made him mORe pOweRfUl.
Also his most defining ability has no mechanic on the tabletop. Imagine if he had the ability to kill/teleport to the unit that killed him and what fun games that would create. Specifically using artillery at the edge of the map to remove him from key locations. Hectic kill chains. Willingly dying for the teleport. But no. He's just another chaos lord.
The face scarring was after he went and spoke to Serena, a remembrancer on with the emperor's children, and she told him that she would cut herself for everything that wronged her, so that she'd never forget. Lucius took up this and made 2 parallel scars on his face with Serena's knife, so that he could never forget what lokan did to him (punched his face).
And later asked a thousand son to fix his face, so even that
The only dude who can compete with Erebus for most hated in 40k
Erebus being a good character and Lucius a bad one
I want one of three things to happen to Lucius. Either he dies from a natural disaster, gets killed by a Tyranid, or Trazyn kidnaps his ass. So he spends the rest of eternity in stasis.
lucius getting trazyn'd would be so funny
…. Just to clear, I said I liked PRE-Eternal Lucius *skulks away to corner, plays with Fabius Bile mini….
Pre eternal Lucius was cool it goes down hill from there
I feel like Slaneshi characters have to be given intricate reasons to exist, if Khorne is the simplest chaos god, Slanesh is the most complicated. All other chaos gods have cool followers by default, Khorne has blood thirsty followers that live for the fight, Nurgle has unstoppable plague bearing followers that dont feel pain and seem to be in perpetual bliss, Tzeench has unkowable and all powerfull followers that have sick magic powers. Slanesh has narcissistic followers that cant get anything done, wich is sad for a chaos god that embodies ambition, passion and the pursuit of perfection, like come on, whats more relatable than that? you could make awsome characters with the broad range of ideologies that align with slanesh in some way, but we just get depraved and depressed types. Make me root for slanesh like i root for Khornes followers because they are so cool sometimes i forget they are the bad guys
If I could do a headcannon/rework of Lucius I would probably turn his "gift" of resurrection into a monkey's paw of sorts
You see, his gift of resurrection only works if people take satisfaction in his death. This means (at least in his mind) that he can never truly connect with people without risking his very soul.
Lucius in this version would always have craved connection. He's always desperately craved to be liked and understood for who he is. And even to this day some of this desire still survives in some twisted way. Yet he als knows that to make himself vulnerable like that now would risk his very soul.
Like, say he wanted to get a genuine friend (at least, as genuine as you can get in a chaos legion). He might be able to do it now - the gifts of Slaanesh can make a man very charismatic after all. Yet what if a friendly scrap got out of hand and his new friend somehow struck him in just the right place? Or what if he killed him by accident or...? His new friend might be too horrified to feel any satisfaction, and Lucius would go straight to Slaanesh. And in secret Lucius is absolutely terrified of the idea of spending all of eternity trapped in Slaanesh's realm, as trapped and alone as the faces on his armour.
So the only way for him to be safe is to make sure that everyone -even his own warband - absolutely hates his fucking guts. That's the sick joke Slaanesh played on their favorite servant. Lucius' gift constantly leaves him so close to what he wants, yet for his own safety he has to actively deny it every single day of his life.
That is a pretty cool take
@@TheHandofDestiny I second this
Man, imagine a perspective where enters his room and his face just drops and it's dead silent and the pink hue is replaced by a somber dark purple black hue and he just collapses into a chair, his eyes without color, black, and just still and with posture of defeat, with a crushing lonely atmosphere, completely at odds with how he is outside, and he HATES IT, it crushes him, but he has just a spark of hope he won't be alone, which is only eclipsed by his fear of actually dying, that he succumbs to doing what he hates and being what he hates, just to survive, out of desire not to die, so that he can always be the best, and for him to have a Lucid understanding that this is a curse, and he HATES it, and hates more how he has to embrace it.... Or else.
Edit: Oh my god, it would be the perfect pain of never being loved as a narcissist, with the pleasure of always being the best of a narcissist.
It would be the most poetic, fittingly, of all the Chaos Champions.
I’m starting an Emperor’s Children army- loving the lore for them! Also since your reaction to Lucius is so negative that probably means they did a good job making him being so hated- I assume that was the writer’s intent with this character.
He’s not hated for being a shitty person or doing something horrible. He’s hated for being poorly written (in the current 40k time) and has immense plot armour that makes no sense sometimes
as mentioned in the video. his one gimmick is that he cant die.. so why should we care about the character at all? even if he does get killed we know hes just gonna come back to ruin the day once again, and its not even done in a good way. just a bad character all around. they wrote amazing loyalist EC during the HH series. Saul Tarvitz and Rylanor being the most obvious examples. So its just frustrating to see this walking scrotum be the only option for a 'champion of slaanesh' besides Fulgrim himself.
@@t.mcgarry4 Why do you only care if a character can die? That’s a bit ridiculous.
@@jm329 The circumstances around it is what is bullshit.
They establish rules for his ability, which is that he can possess people that defeated him and took pride in his death. Yet showed cases like the land mine thing, where he possessed the dude who made the land mine who didn't even know he existed because that person took pride in making a weapon for the Imperium. Even worse, he possess a fucking Necron, a being that has neither a soul, organic body, nor a mind capable of feeling pride because it is a mindless machine. By that logic, he could possess a rock that fell on his head and killed him.
His power was great in concept, but just awful at execution. It's like a child saying "No you cant kill me, I activated my immortality shield".
@@Hustle-boneswhat?
I just finished galaxy in flames
And what do u mean, his betryal is unforgivable.
imagine some guy, say a marine in ancient armor and weapons whose makers are all dead. He goes and kills lucius in combat and immediately after kills himself. Who is Lucius gonna take over?
If he did it by bolt round. The round maker would die. If it was by power weapon it would be by whoever last did the machine blessings. If by orbital laser, one of the crew that works on the laser or works in the reactor of the ship or the commanding officer of the ship who ordered the shot. If not them? Then the overall commander, who was unaware of his death but felt satisfaction that his campaign looked like it would be wrapping up soon and the sector would be saved etc. Etc. And so on and so forth. Technically this could reach all the way back to rowboat guillotine if no one felt pride prior as he is the lord commander of the imperium.
what if he drowned himself
@crowbell3059 that would require nobility. He doesn't have the good grace to kill himself in mine craft. A true impossibility. He'd sooner turn to the worship of gork n Mork than kill himself.
Ya know, if they had to make a rebirth character, it would be better if it was a Nurgle champion that infects who kills them, and the disease turns them into the champion
Kind of like Tamurkhan?
Honestly Lucius should have died a long time ago, with bile becoming the main slannesh champion similarly to Ahriman. That one but about his resurrection diluting his title of master swordsman hit the mail on the head- of you basically can be resurrected anytime you loose then how can you truly be taken seriously as a fighter. I think an interesting take on the character would to have people just… refuse to fight him. Like he would try and fight Kharn the betrayer but would be ignored because Kharn doesn’t want to fight with such a dishonorable fighter who’s such a sore looser he possesses anyone beats him. I think it could then result in slannesh s gift actually becoming a curse because Lucius will never be taken seriously, which for a person like him is a fate worse than death
Lucius is great, he rarely loses. Ahriman is a freaking god, he could destroy the emperor.
Slaanesh’s gift is a curse to Lucius because he can no longer improve his skills as a swordsman. If he beats someone he doesn’t get any satisfaction from the fight because he was already better than them, if they win they will forever be better than him and he will never get a rematch because they will be possessed. Slaanesh’s cruel joke on him is made worse because Lucius declared himself the “greatest swordsman” and he will never be able to prove it.
Bile isn’t even really a slaaneshi marine though.
*Khorne's Champion:* Consumed by rage, expemplifies his master's creed. Entire armies have to account for him as an army unto himself in their strategies.
*Nurgle's Champion:* The one who delivered his legion to Nurgle and fully embraced the gifts in the same instance himself. A magnificent embodiment of decay and rebirth that can start a world-ending plague by being in the world's airsoace for 5 seconds.
*Tzeentch's Champion:* A mastermind who weaves chaos into magic with ease.
A walking encyclopedia of forbidden lore who ever strives to know it all. And delivers all that knowledge to Tzeentch at the same time, intentionally ir not.
*Slaanesh's Champion:* _Prep kid with "restart from last checkpoint" save. And still plays on "easy."_
I like Lucius preheresy tbh, I haven’t read his heresy and post heresy stuff yet though
His post heresy/modern era stuff is pretty good imo. His warband has some cool characters, he’s pretty funny, all his warriors/friends hate him and want him to die too.
I don't think Lucius is a bad character, I think he is interesting and I like the idea that he is favored BC of his devotion to perfecting his craft. I just hate this idea of his plot armor that allows him to return at all times. Its makes sense in some ways, but then like you mentioned the factory worker thing. He is favored by his patron god then why do we need a reason he can ressurrect at all. The big 4 can simply bring anyone they want back at any time, how is it Lucius needs to be that special in that way.
There is almost know way to legit kill him in accordance to the lore and that makes it dumb. There needs to be a retcon that he only possesses anyone who kills him in combat face to face.
I'd like to see him "kill" Lukas the trickster. Thus ending my need to put up with anymore lucius the eternal assholery
I agree with you, and you made an excellent point about him being a master swordsman. The fact that he'll just always come back really defeats the purpose of him being a master swordsman.
He also sucks at it, i heard he once got jobbed by a fucken Skitarii of all things.
as a fellow Lucius hater, the title of this vid couldn't have put a bigger smile on my face
I always thought Fabius Bile was the unsung Champion of The Emperor's Children? His obsession with creating "perfection" is totally a 3rd Legion thing.
Uhm, Fabius Bile is on the run for the Emperor's Children and Fulgrim.
@@LowlandGames I mean, aren't all the Chaos Chapters kinda all at war within? I would think Fabius's experiments probably have gained him a lot of favor with Slaanesh.
@@jmsaum Fabius doesn’t even believe Slaanesh exists. Slaanesh would never give favor to someone who doesn’t worship him/her
@@RogueBlood343 I mean, I suppose you're right? It just seems like a hella waste of an interesting story. The Unwilling Spider of Slaanesh has a real sadistic kinda air about it LOL.
@@LowlandGames so? Ahriman was literally exiled until only recently by his own primarch and fellow sorcerers due to his mistake with the rubric.
Kharn was named the betrayer because he set half his legion on fire for daring to have common sense.
Typhus is despised by his own primarch and fellow warriors for tricking them into becoming literal walking diseases, the only reason he hasn't been gangbamged by his fellow legionaries and primar h 8s because of Nurgle's will itself.
Looking forward to your Fabius Bile video, another great video boss man keep up the great work
I also do not know what happened to the Raven Guard that killed him the first time its like they just left that to the imagination.
Sharrowkyn took no pride in killing him (he even remarks that killing Lucius is like putting down a rabid animal) so the curse didn't take effect
He had his head reattached by Fabius.
Really.
That's what happened.
Sharrowkyn later died fighting traitors on Luna during the Siege of Terra.
On the door where his body was found, there was a message saying ‘Sangprimus Portum’…
@@YTsux100pct._of-the-time.
Wrong guy.
horrific zombie post, but that Raven Guard is Nykona Sharrowkyn, and after killing Lucius, was put into stasis with the Sangprimus Portum artifact. Though the artifact was retrieved, it's uncertain where Sharrowkyn is currently but he is most likely alive
The first time I heard about Lucius it was through TTS, it wasn't a great first impression :v
I quite enjoyed them in the fulgrim book, I blissfully ignore 40k
Was there ever a situation where someone that bested him felt satisfaction later on afterward? Like at first they didn’t care but later on they reminded of what a smug bastard he was, they get a little smirk on their face; next stop shrieking skulls in a suit of armor.
Yeah there was, a Raven Guard captain killed him and felt absolutely nothing... And yet Lucius still came back, just not in his body! Aka bullshit resurrection powers again.
Now they shifted the goalpost that Lucius will only die for good if his killer feels nothing but pity and remorse for Lucius, which Lucius "preemptively counters" by being literally the worst creatures in ten systems around, so everybody feels at least some hatred for him.
I think the only way to permanently kill him would either be from a blank or have a demon of a different god kill him. I only think that would work because slaanesha's power wouldn't extend to like Magnus or angron
Honestly I liked PRE-TERNAL Lucius, he had a real heartfelt moment with Tarvitz on IV3 aft Tarvitz saved his life, he showed real humility…. even IF he was planning on betraying TF out of everyone to get back in the 3rd.
I think you’re right about the blank or null like what if Dorn just loosed all the sisters of silence on him at the same time?!?! THAT WOULD BE A SIIIICK SHOWDOWN!!
@@MrVlad12340 LMFAO his passive aura just pisses everyone off so bad!!
Trully compared to the other chaos champions, lucius is kinda pathetic and annoying , honestly fabulous Bill make a better champion and still fit in the slaneesh's whole deal .
But honestly a whole New character maybe one clinging to the emperors children original Quest of beauty and perfection but in a Twisted way
“Master swordsman” (dies in sword fights all the time)
Yeah! I cant get over it, he literally more famous for how many times he lost rather than how many times he won at that point!
I hope when they bring back fulgrim and the emperors children the first thing they do is have Lucius shot by a necron, or Tyranid and killed forever. Or get him trapped on an Ork ship where he’s constantly being revived, but killed by another ork before he can properly transfer, in an infinite loop of pain and death that would make even an emperors children uncomfortable after a couple years
He has already previously been killed by a necron warrior before, an unfeeling, emotionless killing machine and he was still able to take over the necrons body. Doesn't matter what situation you put him in he always comes back due to some stupid contrived reason. Pretty sure it's also canon that if he ever were to die in a way that he can't come back from Slaneesh itself will just respawn him anyway.
Man's walking around in an armor displaying the thousands of Ls he's taken.
they call him a master swordsman but he is everliving proof that he blows, actually
hes a master loser
wasnt there a story where a necron warrior killed Lucius and "took pride" in it so Lucius came back? not sure if that was rc'd or not but it sucks either way
Isnt the first captain of the Emp-Children, still around leading war-bands of the EC around?
I forgot his name. The guy that got decapitated for annoying Fulgrim, but got his head sewn back on by fabius…
Yep.
Eidolon.
I, too, hate Lucius. He's a swordsman who'se been beaten AND killed in SWORDFIGHTS. Multiple times.
How many times has Kharn lost a fight? Huh?! At least he lost to Sigismund! Lucius is a chump with a handicap.
Plus, his OWN primarch screwed him over by cursing Roboute with never feeling pride in anything he does ever again. Essentially, Fulgrim game Roboute the tool he needs to kill Lucius for good.
There's a few OG named characters kicking. Fabius, Fulgrim, Lucius, Eidolon. Plus whoever GW makes up later.
As an aside, when Lucius revived in the dude who made the mine, his very first thought upon learning that was "I'm going to have to kill so many people to stop this from spreading."
Still. Pretty funny that there's this factory world churning out landmines that can just straight up one shot chaos space marines. Makes sense I guess given the powerful explosives that exist in 40k but it just makes me wonder why we don't have far far more space marines getting killed by land mines and my only Watsonian explaination (that is to say an in universe explaination) is that the majority of space marines have such sharp senses and quick reaction times that they just identify and avoid the majority of mines. Which means that Lucius fucked up so badly, he made a blunder that even normal astartes without his millennia of experience or the powers of chaos usually avoid. Which is very funny. He was so obsessed with whatever he was doing he stepped on a mine and died.
I think he is a good character with a nonsensical amount of plot armor.
Why would you say Cairne? It's Kharn Car-N. Stopped watching after that
The thing I like about Lucius’ ability is that when he gets the curse it no longer matters when he fights. He loses the joy of sword fighting, for two reasons. One because there’s no consequence to his death. And two, because he can never fight the person again. He can never beat them. So he is eternally second to them entirely because of his curse. It’s actually a brilliant idea. I love Lucius. He’s like Erebus where you love to hate him. But when you delve into his character it’s actually really sad. I mean, he deserves it. But still.
There are thousands of Heresy era Emperor's Children running around, I don't know why you think it's just Lucius and Fabius
nah, that was my B
I made a correction to it a bit later in a different video, but you so right
I cannot abide by a man who unironically calls him KAIRN 1:21
Eidolon is still around. There's actually quite a few left around from the heresy. Most sit on "The Phoenix Council," headed by Eidolon himself.
Though by the state of the current canon... Yeah Eidolon is a monster onto himself. As in Fabulous Bill himself, the creep who resurrected his ass after Fulgrim lopped off his head and dunked it into a vat of wine, doesn't want to be anywhere near him. The same Fabius Bile who made offshoots of the space marines that are able to reproduce without humans and are actively worshiping him as a god such that he's a minor chaos god. The same Fabius Bile who hung out with the Dark Eldar and who was taught the secrets of their Haemonculae, looked at whatever the hell Eidolon is turning into and said "oh hell to the fuck to the no" and got the fuck out of Dodge.
Agreed, I’ve never despised a character and a characters abilities more. He makes Abaddon look like the best written character ever
Arthur be like
I HATE LUCIUS
pill time
I...
Still hate lucius but can now say the reasons why
I never tried to rules-lawyer a way to kill Lucius with his resurrection mechanics in mind, cause Slaanesh can just disregard that. No I've always immediately went for the nuclear option. That being what the Emperor did to Horus or Ahriman did to Othyr Wyrdmake: just delete his Soul
i guess a blank also works, since they're completely detached from warp energy and basically have no emotions or reactions to speak off. its in their name after all....
Yeah, nah. Lucius blows. He's just a bland uninteresting character. Personally, I'd love to see the Emp's Kiddos be less like something. Out of a German S&M magazine and more like the Hellraiser Cenobites. But hey, that's just me.