It feels like the way to handle Byzantine is just to disrupt the timing of the first and second set of mercenaries with aggression, and then keep them in their base to either go multi TC if they hard turtle or take pocket resources on the map if you can do eco damage. Abbasid Military Wing also feels pretty favorable against Byzantines.
Hey beasty if jd feudal age is more infantry focused then how come it will make sense that jd is a variation of french Though i like the idea what you praposed in video for jd
Given wood is one of the easier and safer resources to access early, and the official can give you +20% on it, I'm not sure you want 120 resources of food-heavy feudal palace guard spawning from 150 resources worth of production structure which has ongoing value in and of itself at an early stage of the game. One of the fundamental problems with the tower is that it can't be fine tuned at all, it has extremely coarse granularity. The med garden by contrast has a lot of levers you can pull, from how much you get from resource node, to the range of the structure, to how much it loses from enemy units, you can even impose a cap on total resource income, or per resource type. That's a lot of balancing levers. And that is something they need to think about when designing these things, how easy will it be to get the balance right afterwards?
I started playing Deli this season but can’t break out of gold 1, I was doing well but then I started to get some real opponents and the gas strategy started to fail when they also went full gas. I still need to get better at raiding.
9:45 I'd been thinking myself that JD seems extremely low dimensional and with unique units requiring super fragile and expensive castles does need help. I thought if she could have a faster than 1.12, medium armor infantry unit, available in fuedal, (it could possibly have small bonuses or even a snare effect), Well then that could justify a reason to use Jean's Riders
Hey Beasty, mongol eco; what is about stone upgrades for eco upgrades? I mean yes, you need stone and it is limited. So the tradeoff is investing stone into mil or eco BUT you said mongol eco is shit according to other civs. I actually playing mongol main in multi and solo and those stone ecoupgrades feels pretty strong.
Mongols dont need eco buffs they need unit buffs or the ability to mass units, with either cheaper units or better ways to get stone which is very limited in just ovoo and that it is limited ressource on the map as well, units need to be the way to defend while not having walls or keeps
@@202adr providing a better way to collect stone won't be a wise choice I guess something devs can do is every production building inside the radius of ovoo produces units is 10% cheaper but you need to upgrade it from ovoo
English are the best civ in the game OVERALL and here’s why: it’s an easy civ to play as and yet it has one of the highest ceilings in the game. Essentially, low risk to play, high reward for wining
I hate fighting the English so much. All of their land marks are good, it's so frustrating to try and harass them. The Berkshire just one shots and has a billion range. Everything they have is good
Japanese feudal landmark shinobi should spawn one every two minutes like ayyubids desert raider timer for feudal giving you some use for the landmark past feudal age👍
Long time ago I said OOTD econ has great problem, at that time villagers 25% work faster but 20% more time to produce make it is about 4% gathering bonus rather than most others civ has around 10% econ bonus minimum and more. After a certain time OOTD villagers is buffed from 25% to 28% what a genius move, the 3%/125% means about 2.4% more buff and maybe delete this civ is the best option. Using OOTD is similar to have a 5%+ econ handicap, maybe that is the real reason of OOTD exist.
That's not a good understanding of the dynamics. The practical reality is that they scale extremely well because the bonus is to base gathering rate, thus making it multiplicative with everything else, and while they aren't getting a huge bonus out of the gate, abbasid golden age doesn't activate until more than six minutes have passed, so that isn't a problematic thing in and of itself. In the late game their economic potential is obviously massive, but the point of that I think is to let them use fewer workers and thus more of their supply for military. The issue is mostly one of coarse granularity and the underlying mechanics. The military is not great overall, and it's hard to balance them. You can't make the ranged units (which are generally among the best options for OotD) too good because of dps density because they can all fire, especially as they all have elevated range. Melee units have fewer surface area problems than normal melee units because you have fewer of them with higher stats, so again, you have to be careful not to make them too good because, like sipahi with their huge melee range, a greater percentage of your army can attack at the same time. And with 2 supply, you're forced into trying to make them not only around twice as good, but scale appropriately with upgrades, which of course is why so many OotD units have higher attack speed, to make the +1s of blacksmith upgrades actually matter. But in general, it's very hard to balance 2 supply units in a 1 supply game. But the economy is actually the best part of the civ, and the easiest to balance and fix.
@@simonkapadia7582 First, Abbasid is not the same mechanism, if you play single tc Abb I think you must think the econ is also not good. But it can boom econ by its unique tech with 2+ tc and most players play like that. OOTD is easily compare to HRE, then the maths calculate is very simple, its econ is real sucks. Maybe its econ can catch up most civs in late game, but your opponents don’t give you the chance. I agree the 2 supply units are another problem, it is not easy to balance. Especially the range units can’t do 2x dps (except hand cannon but it is also late game only), even they are hard to be killed, in mixed army battle, due to lower dps with same resource the front line will got killed faster than opponent, therefore OOTD more rely on small micro battle, however for top players you can’t really do much magic even they have high apm because leak of unit count. But I think the 2 supply units design is really fun, therefore focusing on balance the econ bonus in order to remedy the army problem is an easier way to fix OOTD.
@@simonkapadia7582 lol I forget Abb has berry bonus at the beginning, are you such OOTD can gather more resource than Abb before getting golden age 1??
english is so OP! they can rush with king and longbows either way and have too strong defensive landmarks also nerf ottoman great bombard, still too op
I still fail to understand how Meditation Gardens was completely gutted but ayyubids get to have growth in the economic wing which is a strictly better version of MG
That's a silly rule, it's all relative. It literally doesn't matter one lick if the top grade is "S" or "A" or "Z" or whatever. If anything, having them "S" probably better represents the idea that they are potentially too good and need nerfs. Making the S tier civs A tier would largely imply they're strong but don't need to be looked towards for nerfs.
I like the Malians, but musofadi warriors having ZERO ranged or melee armor compared to regular man-at-arms suck! They get shredded by ranged units! I’ve played over 200 ranked games and still can’t decide what my main civ is 🥴….I absolutely HATE long games though where my opponent can get established and build keeps and theirs fights going on all over the map. It’s just to chaotic. I like short games where I harass you and can’t let you build up your army. I like Mongols a lot but them not having walls suck!
Musofadis are extremely cheap and generally highly effective against the most expensive units in the game. Indeed forcing your opponent to make archers when your archers are better than theirs and archers are reasonably useless against sofas is a bit part of the overall dynamic. Mali can spam out units that require a significant mixture of counters and which are in and of themselves cheap and usually fairly versatile.
If Byzantines have 3 bad matchups then by definition they shouldn't be S tier, on the other hand I believe that Rus and English don't have a single bad matchup so it's very contradicting that you place them on the same tier. It's also very obvious that you don't like the civ which is sad because it will get the civ nerfed while Rus will sit in S tier for 3 years straight at least and it's probably a better civ than Byzantines
You can still be overly good while not performing the exact same as other overly good civs. More so if one of those weakness is one of, if not the best Civ in the game.
@@Black2overlord The civ is good for sure but it has weaknesses otherwise it wouldn't have 3 bad matchups. On the other hand we have civs like English and Rus that currently have no weaknesses which is the definition of S tier
Yesssss! Was looking for this!
one of my favorite types of vids u do
It feels like the way to handle Byzantine is just to disrupt the timing of the first and second set of mercenaries with aggression, and then keep them in their base to either go multi TC if they hard turtle or take pocket resources on the map if you can do eco damage. Abbasid Military Wing also feels pretty favorable against Byzantines.
For sure as byz main, just pressure dont rush, dont actually dive in just pressure amd force units production
love the idea of Johns "School of Infantry"!
Nerve the damn English. I'm fed up, almost every second game is against them...
I remember when the game came out, every game was against the french
@@shiaeliminator6484 Thats me there! hehe I lose so don't worry!
Love these thanks beasty - curious about what it looks like for water and hybrid i actually like it lol
We need separate video compilation of Beasty rating Byzantine :D
I just made it
@@ByzantineEnjoyer-s6l link bro)))))
@@chacha-ro6yoTf you mean link? He made it just click on his channel 😂
@@Black2overlord ah, dumb me)
Hey beasty if jd feudal age is more infantry focused then how come it will make sense that jd is a variation of french
Though i like the idea what you praposed in video for jd
Loving the salt water up in here. You're the one Wyatt.
Just bought the game, looking forward to playing some MP. I’m liking mongols honestly. It’s so unique and fun.
Given wood is one of the easier and safer resources to access early, and the official can give you +20% on it, I'm not sure you want 120 resources of food-heavy feudal palace guard spawning from 150 resources worth of production structure which has ongoing value in and of itself at an early stage of the game. One of the fundamental problems with the tower is that it can't be fine tuned at all, it has extremely coarse granularity. The med garden by contrast has a lot of levers you can pull, from how much you get from resource node, to the range of the structure, to how much it loses from enemy units, you can even impose a cap on total resource income, or per resource type. That's a lot of balancing levers.
And that is something they need to think about when designing these things, how easy will it be to get the balance right afterwards?
love love love !!!!
Can you do a tier list video tier list?
I started playing Deli this season but can’t break out of gold 1, I was doing well but then I started to get some real opponents and the gas strategy started to fail when they also went full gas. I still need to get better at raiding.
9:45 I'd been thinking myself that JD seems extremely low dimensional and with unique units requiring super fragile and expensive castles does need help.
I thought if she could have a faster than 1.12, medium armor infantry unit, available in fuedal, (it could possibly have small bonuses or even a snare effect),
Well then that could justify a reason to use Jean's Riders
maybe do a counter list? which civs are good against whom
Hey Beasty,
mongol eco; what is about stone upgrades for eco upgrades? I mean yes, you need stone and it is limited. So the tradeoff is investing stone into mil or eco BUT you said mongol eco is shit according to other civs. I actually playing mongol main in multi and solo and those stone ecoupgrades feels pretty strong.
I do not know how to buff OOTD but it needs to
May be deer stone can increase moment speed and give 5/10 percent gathering rate to every vill inside aura
Mongols dont need eco buffs they need unit buffs or the ability to mass units, with either cheaper units or better ways to get stone which is very limited in just ovoo and that it is limited ressource on the map as well, units need to be the way to defend while not having walls or keeps
@@202adr providing a better way to collect stone won't be a wise choice I guess something devs can do is every production building inside the radius of ovoo produces units is 10% cheaper but you need to upgrade it from ovoo
English are the best civ in the game OVERALL and here’s why: it’s an easy civ to play as and yet it has one of the highest ceilings in the game. Essentially, low risk to play, high reward for wining
easy to play, hard to play against, objectively super strong
English needs to be nerfed a little and OOTD needs to be buffed
i agree. They have strong defensive landmarks and a few eco options as well to catch up. Plus strong archers and very good infantry
I hate fighting the English so much. All of their land marks are good, it's so frustrating to try and harass them. The Berkshire just one shots and has a billion range.
Everything they have is good
I mean 2 of it’s landmarks are keeps that hold 20 units. English needs a defensive nerf. Plus ironclad with longbows is kind of insane
Japanese feudal landmark shinobi should spawn one every two minutes like ayyubids desert raider timer for feudal giving you some use for the landmark past feudal age👍
Man, JD being centered around making jeanne's champions as the elite core of its army would rock so hard
i guess devs would slighlty buff byz next patch and then nerf it into oblivion, so we can trully see what being byzantine felt like
Looking cute in the thumbnail, brother
as a ootd lover - im in pain but still want to play it :L
same
Why new tier list because last patch was in march?
I like the random language arguments happening in Beasty's chat. WTF is wrong with people? Lmfao
As someone in that chat. I don't F**** know. Seems some bots entered?
@@hortehighwind8651 idk man, just seems like some disturbed people. There are plenty of those in this world and surfing twitch.
What does go castle mean?
I think it’s time to ditch the French in favor of rus. I’ll never forget the amazing battles I had with them. French is just to easy to counter.
Sushi's imperial rush, then go for Imperial guards and Yuan Raider, gg
That's not easy to get and also Imperial guards cost so much resources and you have to pay 300/700 just to make them si it's not that easily done.
French overall is fundamentaly designed wrong or one dimensional.
Odor of the dragon . 🐲😢😂
👏..Meme👏..Review.
Zhu ji spaghetti is good in ffa but pretty much only ffa
Hi everyone 🎉
zhu ix`s don´t has handcanoniers
Long time ago I said OOTD econ has great problem, at that time villagers 25% work faster but 20% more time to produce make it is about 4% gathering bonus rather than most others civ has around 10% econ bonus minimum and more. After a certain time OOTD villagers is buffed from 25% to 28% what a genius move, the 3%/125% means about 2.4% more buff and maybe delete this civ is the best option. Using OOTD is similar to have a 5%+ econ handicap, maybe that is the real reason of OOTD exist.
That's not a good understanding of the dynamics. The practical reality is that they scale extremely well because the bonus is to base gathering rate, thus making it multiplicative with everything else, and while they aren't getting a huge bonus out of the gate, abbasid golden age doesn't activate until more than six minutes have passed, so that isn't a problematic thing in and of itself.
In the late game their economic potential is obviously massive, but the point of that I think is to let them use fewer workers and thus more of their supply for military.
The issue is mostly one of coarse granularity and the underlying mechanics. The military is not great overall, and it's hard to balance them. You can't make the ranged units (which are generally among the best options for OotD) too good because of dps density because they can all fire, especially as they all have elevated range. Melee units have fewer surface area problems than normal melee units because you have fewer of them with higher stats, so again, you have to be careful not to make them too good because, like sipahi with their huge melee range, a greater percentage of your army can attack at the same time.
And with 2 supply, you're forced into trying to make them not only around twice as good, but scale appropriately with upgrades, which of course is why so many OotD units have higher attack speed, to make the +1s of blacksmith upgrades actually matter. But in general, it's very hard to balance 2 supply units in a 1 supply game.
But the economy is actually the best part of the civ, and the easiest to balance and fix.
@@simonkapadia7582 First, Abbasid is not the same mechanism, if you play single tc Abb I think you must think the econ is also not good. But it can boom econ by its unique tech with 2+ tc and most players play like that. OOTD is easily compare to HRE, then the maths calculate is very simple, its econ is real sucks. Maybe its econ can catch up most civs in late game, but your opponents don’t give you the chance.
I agree the 2 supply units are another problem, it is not easy to balance. Especially the range units can’t do 2x dps (except hand cannon but it is also late game only), even they are hard to be killed, in mixed army battle, due to lower dps with same resource the front line will got killed faster than opponent, therefore OOTD more rely on small micro battle, however for top players you can’t really do much magic even they have high apm because leak of unit count. But I think the 2 supply units design is really fun, therefore focusing on balance the econ bonus in order to remedy the army problem is an easier way to fix OOTD.
@@simonkapadia7582 lol I forget Abb has berry bonus at the beginning, are you such OOTD can gather more resource than Abb before getting golden age 1??
english is so OP! they can rush with king and longbows either way and have too strong defensive landmarks
also nerf ottoman great bombard, still too op
the english kings needs to be a support unit not a cancerous fully upgraded royal knight you cant ignore
Im in gold (yes, I'm a noob), and i think it's a valid list in gold too
*CLAP. CLAP* GAMERS
I still fail to understand how Meditation Gardens was completely gutted but ayyubids get to have growth in the economic wing which is a strictly better version of MG
OotD just needs stronger units, none of them are worth 2 pop
@@gorbork Maybe a 1 pop on basic units and 2 for powerful units.
Too many S tier civs. If you have more than 1 then I don't think they can be called S, they are just A and the rest are moved down 1 tier.
That's a silly rule, it's all relative. It literally doesn't matter one lick if the top grade is "S" or "A" or "Z" or whatever. If anything, having them "S" probably better represents the idea that they are potentially too good and need nerfs. Making the S tier civs A tier would largely imply they're strong but don't need to be looked towards for nerfs.
I like the Malians, but musofadi warriors having ZERO ranged or melee armor compared to regular man-at-arms suck! They get shredded by ranged units! I’ve played over 200 ranked games and still can’t decide what my main civ is 🥴….I absolutely HATE long games though where my opponent can get established and build keeps and theirs fights going on all over the map. It’s just to chaotic. I like short games where I harass you and can’t let you build up your army. I like Mongols a lot but them not having walls suck!
Is it cold down there in silver?
@@jackbubniw8028 - Your right, I’m not very high ranked.
Musofadis are extremely cheap and generally highly effective against the most expensive units in the game. Indeed forcing your opponent to make archers when your archers are better than theirs and archers are reasonably useless against sofas is a bit part of the overall dynamic. Mali can spam out units that require a significant mixture of counters and which are in and of themselves cheap and usually fairly versatile.
@@simonkapadia7582 - when you say Malians archers are better then theirs I assume your talking about Javelin throwers correct?
@greeneyesfromohio4103 poison arrows are fantastic, they kill armoured units almost as good as xbows on max upgrades
hello
First!
Only thing that gets views
If Byzantines have 3 bad matchups then by definition they shouldn't be S tier, on the other hand I believe that Rus and English don't have a single bad matchup so it's very contradicting that you place them on the same tier. It's also very obvious that you don't like the civ which is sad because it will get the civ nerfed while Rus will sit in S tier for 3 years straight at least and it's probably a better civ than Byzantines
You can still be overly good while not performing the exact same as other overly good civs.
More so if one of those weakness is one of, if not the best Civ in the game.
@@Black2overlord The civ is good for sure but it has weaknesses otherwise it wouldn't have 3 bad matchups. On the other hand we have civs like English and Rus that currently have no weaknesses which is the definition of S tier
UR IN DENIAL BEASTY BYZ IS BAD!!!! TOURNEYS SAY NAY!!!
flat universe 😂
The Universe is flat
this game sucks why waste time playing it I will never understand
Sounds like a skill issue 😂
@@patrickhenry1249 i play for fun not PvP I just think AOE4 is a trash game