Greetings ! My name is James Fleet. My Dad was Biddy Fleet, the guitarist who was playing with Charlie when Bird “Came Alive” on Cherokee back in Harlem, 1939. I just checked out your excellent video: Sonny Stitt vs. Charlie Parker. You actually “hit the nail on the head” with your assessment. However, there’s more to Bird’s epiphany on his sax that ties directly to my father. Please read “Swing To Bop” by Ira Gitler and “Kansas City Lightning” by Stanley Crouch, for more info on the Biddy/ Bird connection. God Bless, and thanks for your great tutelage!
My old friend who schooled me on jazz music when I was a kid used to tell me if wasn’t “Bird” it would have been Sonny! I happened to meet Sonny in a class once. He didn’t talk much about music but he talked about character. He played a couple of choruses of “You are the Sunshine of my life” and melted our hearts!
Sonny Stitt is Great, but his style on alto, it seems totally impossible to me that he had developed it indepently of Bird. The phrasing, specific licks, tone... and, the "little detail" that by short but Charlie predates Sonny. It's just too evident who imitated who. Nothing wrong with that, everybody in any instrument plays at least a bit of Parker in some form, even without knowing it, it's engrained in jazz language since then. I found a hint about "pre-Bird" Sonny, who talks about his enormous talent in assimilating, it's a quote from trumpeter Willie Cook who played with Stitt: “At that time Sonny Stitt played like Johnny Hodges when he was drinking and like Benny Carter when he wasn’t”.
Ali would have studied Tyson also.Charlie also played tenor. But he sounds like he is playing alto, where as Sonny played tenor as a tenor and played alto as an alto. There is a story that they met on the street in K.C. and went up to the Musicians Union and played for each other. Bird said " You sound like me" and Stitt said " You sound like me" . Stitt can play a lot Bird´s things on alto but only when he chooses to. Otherwise he has his own licks, time feel, sound and vibrato. They both had clearly studied Prez. Sonny Stitt was a very good piano player ( I heard him after he played a gig in New York and sat down at the piano) They both listened to modern classical music and they were both great blues players. All of the players up to the 1970´s ( circa) had their own sound and styles based on where they came from. After Jazz education started these regional influences became less noticeable. But the regional phenomena still exists ( You can still hear New Orleans vs Chicago vs Philly etc.) Well that´s my 2 cents worth LOL. This was a good subject Adrien. Thank you!
Great take. I have heard that story of Bird saying “you sound like me” but I had never heard Stitts response before. Thanks! Also here is bird on Tenor playing Half Nelson with Miles Davis for those who have never heard him. There were four songs on that date. ruclips.net/video/3jdQChUmMNs/видео.html
Amazing story! Can you remember what Sonny stitt was playing on piano? I wonder how he learnt piano and the influence that had on his saxophone playing
The word back in the 60's and 70's was that Stitt never would have added tenor to his alto if he hadn't felt burdened by the comparisons to Parker. Bird was the innovator genius. Stitt developed fully realized command over the instrument and the idiom. He was the codifier of the legacy. The compelling thing about Stitt is that he was a note-perfect player. Like Tommy Flanagan, Cannonball and a few others. His solos are orderly, sure footed and are complete musical statements. And he could play ballads on tenor like no other doubler coming from alto. Stitt is an ideal model to study and transcribe. There are no superfluous notes or flourishes. His logic is masterful. What I want to know is: if Parker had lived longer, would he have made some of the "lesser" records that Stitt made - with organ combos etc.
Sonny Stitt was an incredibly melodic improviser who utilized altissimo, octatonic scales, false fingerings, and the whole gamut of saxophone techniques while never losing the swing . His double time feel was unmatched by anyone. Parker was no slouch either! We are lucky to have them both
I was blown away by Charlie Parker’s playing when I discovered him in my early 20s. But then I discovered Grover Washington, Jr.‘s music and that’s what I ended up listening to a lot of more.His beautiful performances are what I love the most Still today.
Both Sonny Stitt and Charlie Parker were incredible innovators! Interesting comparison with Ali & Tyson. (If they would meet in their prime -- Ali was faster, but I think Tyson hit harder and could take more punches.) I saw Muhammed Ali in a pizzeria in Chicago when he was world champ -- very impressive.
Charlie Parker played a lot of tenor saxophone. Collectors Items with Miles Davis and Sonny Rollins, the Jam Session with Dizzy where they play Sweet Georgia Brown, bootlegs of him from Kansas City before he came to New York... There's also a famous picture of Charlie Parker playing tenor saxophone with Lionel Hampton. Cheers mate!
I choose Bird over Stitt, mainly because I heard Bird a few years before I ever knew Stitt existed. By that time, Bird had changed my life entirely. Even though I admire Stitt's style and technical facility, I even prefer Sonny Rollins, Trane, Wayne Shorter, or Hank Mobley over Stitt. In my ears, Stitt always sounded like he was proving how much of a badass he was. I get the same feeling when I listen to Johnny Griffin too.
Some mighty fine playing by you 😎👍🎷 I believe Parker gets the nod for being first, but Sonny Stitt takes the cake. I'm Stitt biased for sure. My Second favorite though is Cannonball Adderley . Great debate 😎👍
Stitt was irritated by the comparison (apparently) but then he recorded many tunes closely associated with Bird, Lover Man in particular. On the other hand, Stitt dueled tenor with Rollins, something Bird never got the chance at. Stylistically they both used very similar if not the same licks but Bird is much more rhythmically varied. Especially with the starting point of phrases. Bird's attack is more muscular too. Stitt more considered, poised. Given the similarities in the music, but the contrast in lifestyle and lifespan we are lucky to have been given the chance to view two facets of the same jewell. Fascinating concept Sirvalorsax!
@@ronacosta1151 I didn't know that. Was it under the pseudonym Charlie Chan? This is interesting ruclips.net/video/SCerNb5S7yE/видео.html and this is with 'Charlie Chan'. Is this what you meant? ruclips.net/video/8M0s29RhR5E/видео.html I should have thought of that. As Bird died in 1955, this would be quite early Rollins. But the point still remains, Stitt and Rollins were a thing, (Dizzy's Sonny Side Up 1957) and were presented as 'equals'. But yes you are correct, Bird did play with Rollins.
I have to say I agree. The standard yardstick of historical greatness has always given more points for innovation over anything else and Parker was an innovator. Phil Woods and Sonny Criss are 2 others often also used in this comparison, both having the capacity to sound like Parker and play like virtuosos. However, ultimately none of the 3 actually played better than Parker (they might have equalled him sometimes) and Parker was the prime innovator so he gets my vote too. I have to address a point raised in the comments several times which is that Stitt was a better tenor player. I do agree that (and also I think his vocab was a bit different on tenor). However, that doesn't overshadow the fact that Parker was the prime innovator. He was one of a handful of people responsible for the innovations of post-war jazz and pretty well the sole innovator of the majority of the sax vocabulary of bop. Stitt did have his own vocabulary too however and it would be interesting to look further into this particularly his diminished patterns.
very true both were giants, Bird was the originator and more adventuresome than Stitt, but there is NO ONE who is Stitt's equal as far as technique on both horns, with apologies to george Coleman,Jimmy Heath, James Moody etc etc Stitt was a master musician
@@thomasespositio3139 furthermore , cannonball was THE BRIDGE between bebop& hardbop and ALL of modern contempory saxophone playing that came after which is why one can hear on black messiah ALONE the germs what was to come later from Steve Coleman, David Sanborn and Kenny Garrett all from that one album .
@@TheRealG2024 Cannonball was a MONSTER agreed my comment I didn't think any player had more technique on BOTH horns than Stitt,Hawkins never played alto
Years ago while at University I came across a colossal thesis by Thomas Owens where he broke down Parker's motif's to the smallest musical cells possible and approaches to voice leading et al. Sonny Stitt could indeed play his ass off but the world knows how influential Charlie Parker was. Think about this, John Coltrane is now known as a somewhat "free jazz musician" but how did Trane cut his musical teeth ? By listening to Charlie Parker and playing Bop....Snapple top fact !
Sonny Stitt and Sonny Rollins are kings. Charlie Parker was a god among men a brilliant mind. Lester Young. Colman Hawkins. Stan Getz. And the Gentle Giant Dexter Gordon are The Crown Princes. Michael Brecker and his mighty predecessor John Coltrane were ruling the universe. Bob Berg was warming up in the wings. The prophets were Dave Liebman and Steve Goodman. The other royalty includes: Harry Allen, Zoot Sims with Al Cohen, George Coleman, Frank Foster with Frank Wes, Walt Weiskopf, Chris Potter, Bill Evans, James Moody, Josh Redman, Branford Marsalis, Stanley Turentine, Marshall Royal, Mr Don Herring, Charles Lloyd, King Curtis, Junior Walker, Bobby Keys, Illinois Jaquett, The eloquent Ernie Watts and Eddie Daniels. The melodic Joe Henderson, Junior Cook, Jerry Bergonzi, Chris Potter, Walt Weiskopf, Grover Washington Jr., Warren Hill, Dave Koz, Kenny Hitchcock, Lawrence Feldman, Dave Tofani, Jimmy Heath, Herbie Mann, the hundreds of reed players who survived Buddy Rich Band, Hank Mobley, Don Byas, Billy Pierce, Johnny Hodges, Gigi Gryce, the modern genius mind of Kenny Garrett. Anker Bilk. Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw, Sir Edmund Hall (of Louis Armstrong fame), Pete Fountain. To name a few of my favorites, off the top of my melon.
I think the OG Parker gets the nod just because no one ever sounded like him before and his legacy of who he influenced is so great. When I think of Stitt the definition of virtuoso always comes to my head. The guy could play everything inside out. Incredible… luckily we don’t have to choose we can just enjoy 😊
I love me some stitt playing with good ole don patterson thats what you call floating a boat.... Parker the proof is in the effortlessness! Greatest of all time is always personal to you. There is no right answer. And thats the truth!
Losing to Frazier in 15 impressed me more than getting knocked out by Buster Douglas. And I see no reason to choose between Bird and Sonny. Who cares who was greater? Enjoy them both.
I’m not a fan of the “best ever” trip. The great ones all belong on a circular, round shelf. No one in front of another. Just enjoy what you like today, and in the future, enjoy another great one.
Who is the GOAT of Jazz Sax? This can only be answered by the words of the greats just like all NBA legends that call MJ the GOAT. Stitt, Rollins, Coltrane, and virtually any legend cite Parker as an original and a dominant influence on them. Listen to late Benny Carter in the late 70s and 80s and you hear Parker thought he was popular before Bird. I saw a video with him playing with Nat Adderly and Carter quoted Parker at least two or three times. When an improvisor changes even the way another legend plays then you know he is a real GOAT especially when one realizes that Carter used to be “THE” way to play circa 1930-1943. So of course you are correct!
There is no comparison between Bird and Stitt! This entire video is a joke I thought it was a parody!! 🤣 Bird is king. Anyone even asking the question knows very little about real jazz or harmony or anything🤣
and rhythm. bird's rhythmic sophistication alone. the ballads on Dial (Out of Nowhere, My Old Flame etc). Many people 'get' the 'pet phrases' he played, eg some famous ii-V's and what not that he played often and think "thats bird" but... Bird made people change instruments when they heard him. Miles and Max said Bird's rhythmic sense was so sophisticated he'd play some shit and they'd turn the beat around cause it was so out there. Jay McShann said the band members would dig what Bird was playing so hard they'd forget when to come in lol. Bird was a force of nature. Also gotta remember he was doing all of that with an absolute chaotic personal life. Writing what we now call classics in the back of a taxi cab. "Desert Island" recordings/sessions where he missed every rehearsal lol. Bird at St. Nicks Bird at Storyville
stitt was considered a copier of Parker. I think they are very different. 1) Stitt mostly played jazz eighth notes through his solos. Parker would stop and start. IMO that is a big part of Bebop is rhythmic phasing. "salt peanuts". 2) A Parker trademark is playing a quick tritone double beat. KC Blues is an example. Adderley seems to have that too. 3) Parkers blues phrasing is very extreme. Eddie Vinson resembles that sound. I dont think of Stitt as a blues player. 4) Parker was much more quirky with rhythms and intervals. Stitt was more predictable. He tended to resolve to the tonic. 5) Parker had a classical side and dorsey thing happening. Siti was like most of the bebop players of his time. The actually suppressed the bebop trademarks. Dolphy I think understood Parker more than Stitt did.
glad somebody mentioned him. earl bostic and don byas were stylistically the immediate precursors to the early bop sax players. i really hate how so many people mystify the origins of bebop, as if bird somehow spontaneously appeared one day and started playing a totally new music that has little connection to what went before
By listening to both, there is no doubt that both Stitt and Parker had their problems as musicians. Problems which they did not work out very well. Idolisation and "ranking" of people (or equipment) in American music (jazz / rock etc.) is a big problem, perhaps part of the American wider cultural issues, and I was never an admirer of it. Perhaps that is why many American jazz musicians, towards the end of their lives, moved to live in Europe.
You should be in cuffs for trying to put these two people on the same level. Bird was an innovator. Stitt was an imitator. Without Bird, Stitt would've imitated someone else.
Greetings ! My name is James Fleet. My Dad was Biddy Fleet, the guitarist who was playing with Charlie when Bird “Came Alive” on Cherokee back in Harlem, 1939. I just checked out your excellent video: Sonny Stitt vs. Charlie Parker. You actually “hit the nail on the head” with your assessment. However, there’s more to Bird’s epiphany on his sax that ties directly to my father. Please read “Swing To Bop” by Ira Gitler and “Kansas City Lightning” by Stanley Crouch, for more info on the Biddy/ Bird connection. God Bless, and thanks for your great tutelage!
My old friend who schooled me on jazz music when I was a kid used to tell me if wasn’t “Bird” it would have been Sonny! I happened to meet Sonny in a class once. He didn’t talk much about music but he talked about character. He played a couple of choruses of “You are the Sunshine of my life” and melted our hearts!
There’s a recording of Parker playing tenor on Sweet Georgie brown, look it up👍
He plays tenor on a bunch of the Savoy recordings! Half Nelson, little willie leaps, others
Thanks from Chile
They represent different categories. They were both great IMPROVISORS. But Bird was also a great COMPOSER as well as a GENRE FOUNDER.
I have some family photos of Uncle Sonny, wish I could share them here ❤
I always thought of Charlie Parker as the American Mozart, considering his contribution. Never heard of Sonny Stitt. Will look him up.
@@ThunderBroomPilot stitt was a DECIPLE OF bird
Sonny Stitt is Great, but his style on alto, it seems totally impossible to me that he had developed it indepently of Bird. The phrasing, specific licks, tone... and, the "little detail" that by short but Charlie predates Sonny. It's just too evident who imitated who.
Nothing wrong with that, everybody in any instrument plays at least a bit of Parker in some form, even without knowing it, it's engrained in jazz language since then.
I found a hint about "pre-Bird" Sonny, who talks about his enormous talent in assimilating, it's a quote from trumpeter Willie Cook who played with Stitt:
“At that time Sonny Stitt played like Johnny Hodges when he was drinking and like Benny Carter when he wasn’t”.
Ali would have studied Tyson also.Charlie also played tenor. But he sounds like he is playing alto, where as Sonny played tenor as a tenor and played alto as an alto. There is a story that they met on the street in K.C. and went up to the Musicians Union and played for each other. Bird said " You sound like me" and Stitt said " You sound like me" . Stitt can play a lot Bird´s things on alto but only when he chooses to. Otherwise he has his own licks, time feel, sound and vibrato. They both had clearly studied Prez. Sonny Stitt was a very good piano player ( I heard him after he played a gig in New York and sat down at the piano) They both listened to modern classical music and they were both great blues players. All of the
players up to the 1970´s ( circa) had their own sound and styles based on where they came from. After Jazz education started these regional influences became less noticeable. But the regional phenomena still exists ( You can still hear New Orleans vs Chicago vs Philly etc.) Well that´s my 2 cents worth LOL. This was a good subject Adrien. Thank you!
Great take. I have heard that story of Bird saying “you sound like me” but I had never heard Stitts response before. Thanks! Also here is bird on Tenor playing Half Nelson with Miles Davis for those who have never heard him. There were four songs on that date. ruclips.net/video/3jdQChUmMNs/видео.html
Amazing story! Can you remember what Sonny stitt was playing on piano? I wonder how he learnt piano and the influence that had on his saxophone playing
Correction: Charlie Parker did NOT play tenor like an "alto" player he used the entire range of the horn and sounded like Lester Young.
The word back in the 60's and 70's was that Stitt never would have added tenor to his alto if he hadn't felt burdened by the comparisons to Parker.
Bird was the innovator genius. Stitt developed fully realized command over the instrument and the idiom. He was the codifier of the legacy.
The compelling thing about Stitt is that he was a note-perfect player. Like Tommy Flanagan, Cannonball and a few others.
His solos are orderly, sure footed and are complete musical statements. And he could play ballads on tenor like no other doubler coming from alto.
Stitt is an ideal model to study and transcribe. There are no superfluous notes or flourishes. His logic is masterful.
What I want to know is: if Parker had lived longer, would he have made some of the "lesser" records that Stitt made - with organ combos etc.
Sonny Stitt was an incredibly melodic improviser who utilized altissimo, octatonic scales, false fingerings, and the whole gamut of saxophone techniques while never losing the swing . His double time feel was unmatched by anyone. Parker was no slouch either! We are lucky to have them both
Cannonball enters the chat and chooses violence.
I was blown away by Charlie Parker’s playing when I discovered him in my early 20s. But then I discovered Grover Washington, Jr.‘s music and that’s what I ended up listening to a lot of more.His beautiful performances are what I love the most Still today.
Hi from Puerto Rico, Levittown. Remember Stitt play Barítonesax I saw him late 70" or early 80" in Puerto Rico
Both Sonny Stitt and Charlie Parker were incredible innovators! Interesting comparison with Ali & Tyson. (If they would meet in their prime -- Ali was faster, but I think Tyson hit harder and could take more punches.) I saw Muhammed Ali in a pizzeria in Chicago when he was world champ -- very impressive.
I like Parker more for his rhythmic use and how pretty his melody is.
I think young players get too hung up on harmony nowadays. Bird is by far on of the most melodic players ever
Charlie Parker played a lot of tenor saxophone. Collectors Items with Miles Davis and Sonny Rollins, the Jam Session with Dizzy where they play Sweet Georgia Brown, bootlegs of him from Kansas City before he came to New York... There's also a famous picture of Charlie Parker playing tenor saxophone with Lionel Hampton. Cheers mate!
I choose Bird over Stitt, mainly because I heard Bird a few years before I ever knew Stitt existed. By that time, Bird had changed my life entirely.
Even though I admire Stitt's style and technical facility, I even prefer Sonny Rollins, Trane, Wayne Shorter, or Hank Mobley over Stitt. In my ears, Stitt always sounded like he was proving
how much of a badass he was. I get the same feeling when I listen to Johnny Griffin too.
I saw Sonny Stitt several times
Some mighty fine playing by you 😎👍🎷 I believe Parker gets the nod for being first, but Sonny Stitt takes the cake. I'm Stitt biased for sure. My Second favorite though is Cannonball Adderley . Great debate 😎👍
My favorite version of Body and Soul, was Sonny Stitt on the album you talk that Talk
The greatest of all time? Ask me again after all time. :]
Stitt was irritated by the comparison (apparently) but then he recorded many tunes closely associated with Bird, Lover Man in particular.
On the other hand, Stitt dueled tenor with Rollins, something Bird never got the chance at.
Stylistically they both used very similar if not the same licks but Bird is much more rhythmically varied. Especially with the starting point of phrases. Bird's attack is more muscular too. Stitt more considered, poised.
Given the similarities in the music, but the contrast in lifestyle and lifespan we are lucky to have been given the chance to view two facets of the same jewell.
Fascinating concept Sirvalorsax!
Bird recorded on tenor with Sonny Rollins on an early Miles Davis recording.
@@ronacosta1151 I didn't know that. Was it under the pseudonym Charlie Chan?
This is interesting
ruclips.net/video/SCerNb5S7yE/видео.html
and this is with 'Charlie Chan'. Is this what you meant?
ruclips.net/video/8M0s29RhR5E/видео.html
I should have thought of that. As Bird died in 1955, this would be quite early Rollins.
But the point still remains, Stitt and Rollins were a thing, (Dizzy's Sonny Side Up 1957) and were presented as 'equals'.
But yes you are correct, Bird did play with Rollins.
Could you have either of them without Lester Young? 😊
I have to say I agree. The standard yardstick of historical greatness has always given more points for innovation over anything else and Parker was an innovator. Phil Woods and Sonny Criss are 2 others often also used in this comparison, both having the capacity to sound like Parker and play like virtuosos. However, ultimately none of the 3 actually played better than Parker (they might have equalled him sometimes) and Parker was the prime innovator so he gets my vote too. I have to address a point raised in the comments several times which is that Stitt was a better tenor player. I do agree that (and also I think his vocab was a bit different on tenor). However, that doesn't overshadow the fact that Parker was the prime innovator. He was one of a handful of people responsible for the innovations of post-war jazz and pretty well the sole innovator of the majority of the sax vocabulary of bop. Stitt did have his own vocabulary too however and it would be interesting to look further into this particularly his diminished patterns.
The Cannonball
Birds footprint is massive beyond measure.
very true both were giants, Bird was the originator and more adventuresome than Stitt, but there is NO ONE who is Stitt's equal as far as technique on both horns, with apologies to george Coleman,Jimmy Heath, James Moody etc etc Stitt was a master musician
@@thomasespositio3139 sorry. You forgot about cannonball who was far superior in technique than stitt . hawk was also on tenor at his peak.
@@thomasespositio3139 furthermore , cannonball was THE BRIDGE between bebop& hardbop and ALL of modern contempory saxophone playing that came after which is why one can hear on black messiah ALONE the germs what was to come later from Steve Coleman, David Sanborn and Kenny Garrett all from that one album .
@@TheRealG2024 Cannonball was a MONSTER agreed my comment I didn't think any player had more technique on BOTH horns than Stitt,Hawkins never played alto
There is no on GOAT of the saxophone, but Parker is certainly at the top.
Years ago while at University I came across a colossal thesis by Thomas Owens where he broke down Parker's motif's to the smallest musical cells possible and approaches to voice leading et al. Sonny Stitt could indeed play his ass off but the world knows how influential Charlie Parker was. Think about this, John Coltrane is now known as a somewhat "free jazz musician" but how did Trane cut his musical teeth ? By listening to Charlie Parker and playing Bop....Snapple top fact !
Well said
@@Sirvalorsax Thank you for your reply, it's appreciated !
Thomas Owns Book “Bebop” is great study source that is based on his research
Coltrane, when asked often said that Sonny Stitt was a major influence, he names Stitt as such in the old Leonard Feather jazz dictionary.
Sonny Stitt and Sonny Rollins are kings. Charlie Parker was a god among men a brilliant mind. Lester Young. Colman Hawkins. Stan Getz. And the Gentle Giant Dexter Gordon are The Crown Princes.
Michael Brecker and his mighty predecessor John Coltrane were ruling the universe.
Bob Berg was warming up in the wings.
The prophets were Dave Liebman and Steve Goodman.
The other royalty includes: Harry Allen, Zoot Sims with Al Cohen, George Coleman, Frank Foster with Frank Wes, Walt Weiskopf, Chris Potter, Bill Evans, James Moody, Josh Redman, Branford Marsalis, Stanley Turentine, Marshall Royal, Mr Don Herring, Charles Lloyd, King Curtis, Junior Walker, Bobby Keys, Illinois Jaquett,
The eloquent Ernie Watts and Eddie Daniels. The melodic Joe Henderson, Junior Cook, Jerry Bergonzi, Chris Potter, Walt Weiskopf, Grover Washington Jr., Warren Hill, Dave Koz, Kenny Hitchcock, Lawrence Feldman, Dave Tofani, Jimmy Heath, Herbie Mann, the hundreds of reed players who survived Buddy Rich Band,
Hank Mobley, Don Byas, Billy Pierce, Johnny Hodges, Gigi Gryce, the modern genius mind of Kenny Garrett.
Anker Bilk.
Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw, Sir Edmund Hall (of Louis Armstrong fame),
Pete Fountain.
To name a few of my favorites, off the top of my melon.
You hip to some Eddie “lockjaw” Davis?
@@insaneevillogan absolutely. I love his version of “commin home baby”.
Nice roll call. I'ma go ahead and shout out a few of my favorites not on your list... Gene Ammons, Wayne Shorter and Billy Harper. RESPETO!!!! 🫡
I think the OG Parker gets the nod just because no one ever sounded like him before and his legacy of who he influenced is so great. When I think of Stitt the definition of virtuoso always comes to my head. The guy could play everything inside out. Incredible… luckily we don’t have to choose we can just enjoy 😊
Stitt played Tenor and Baritone with incredible facility.
I love me some stitt playing with good ole don patterson thats what you call floating a boat.... Parker the proof is in the effortlessness! Greatest of all time is always personal to you. There is no right answer. And thats the truth!
So, Ali didn't study other fighters? And Mike was a consummate scholar?
Stitt and Parker didn't have someone like Angelo Dundee or Cus D'Amato in their corner either.
Losing to Frazier in 15 impressed me more than getting knocked out by Buster Douglas. And I see no reason to choose between Bird and Sonny. Who cares who was greater? Enjoy them both.
pharoah
I’m not a fan of the “best ever” trip.
The great ones all belong on a circular, round shelf. No one in front of another. Just enjoy what you like today, and in the future, enjoy another great one.
Who is the GOAT of Jazz Sax? This can only be answered by the words of the greats just like all NBA legends that call MJ the GOAT. Stitt, Rollins, Coltrane, and virtually any legend cite Parker as an original and a dominant influence on them. Listen to late Benny Carter in the late 70s and 80s and you hear Parker thought he was popular before Bird. I saw a video with him playing with Nat Adderly and Carter quoted Parker at least two or three times. When an improvisor changes even the way another legend plays then you know he is a real GOAT especially when one realizes that Carter used to be “THE” way to play circa 1930-1943. So of course you are correct!
There is no comparison between Bird and Stitt! This entire video is a joke I thought it was a parody!! 🤣 Bird is king. Anyone even asking the question knows very little about real jazz or harmony or anything🤣
and rhythm. bird's rhythmic sophistication alone. the ballads on Dial (Out of Nowhere, My Old Flame etc). Many people 'get' the 'pet phrases' he played, eg some famous ii-V's and what not that he played often and think "thats bird" but...
Bird made people change instruments when they heard him.
Miles and Max said Bird's rhythmic sense was so sophisticated he'd play some shit and they'd turn the beat around cause it was so out there.
Jay McShann said the band members would dig what Bird was playing so hard they'd forget when to come in lol.
Bird was a force of nature. Also gotta remember he was doing all of that with an absolute chaotic personal life. Writing what we now call classics in the back of a taxi cab. "Desert Island" recordings/sessions where he missed every rehearsal lol.
Bird at St. Nicks
Bird at Storyville
stitt was considered a copier of Parker. I think they are very different.
1) Stitt mostly played jazz eighth notes through his solos.
Parker would stop and start. IMO that is a big part of Bebop is rhythmic phasing.
"salt peanuts".
2) A Parker trademark is playing a quick tritone double beat. KC Blues is an example.
Adderley seems to have that too.
3) Parkers blues phrasing is very extreme. Eddie Vinson resembles that sound.
I dont think of Stitt as a blues player.
4) Parker was much more quirky with rhythms and intervals.
Stitt was more predictable. He tended to resolve to the tonic.
5) Parker had a classical side and dorsey thing happening.
Siti was like most of the bebop players of his time. The actually suppressed the bebop
trademarks. Dolphy I think understood Parker more than Stitt did.
Jimmy Lyons smokes em both
😳
Earl bostic is the real goat
glad somebody mentioned him. earl bostic and don byas were stylistically the immediate precursors to the early bop sax players. i really hate how so many people mystify the origins of bebop, as if bird somehow spontaneously appeared one day and started playing a totally new music that has little connection to what went before
No Bird, no Stitt.
By listening to both, there is no doubt that both Stitt and Parker had their problems as musicians. Problems which they did not work out very well.
Idolisation and "ranking" of people (or equipment) in American music (jazz / rock etc.) is a big problem, perhaps part of the American wider cultural issues, and I was never an admirer of it.
Perhaps that is why many American jazz musicians, towards the end of their lives, moved to live in Europe.
Where are you from?
You should be in cuffs for trying to put these two people on the same level. Bird was an innovator. Stitt was an imitator. Without Bird, Stitt would've imitated someone else.
my goat is Jan Garbarek, but to each his own.
On account of soul: draw.
BUSTER SMITH and JOHN HARDEE are the GOATS. I’d like for you and I to discuss this. Bird and Stitt are nothing alike.