I'm one of those that don't believe in curses. Other than the Hawks, all those teams that left had horrible owners and front offices. And the city leaders weren't very good negotiating the Rams lease. Or was willing to work with the Cardinals for a football only stadium. The Eagles desmise was due to a bad economy. There wasn't a big enough pie to keep the Cardinals and Browns. The same thing happened to other MLB teams years later. I can't help but wonder why the Hawks couldn't move in with the Blues? Maybe it had something to do with the arena not having air conditioning?
while the Cardinals can be considered an expansion team in the national league, they were already an established team, having been a barnstorming team and then playing for ten years in the major league American Association. so it's not like they were an expansion team that started from scratch, they had recognition. and fan base already developed. a distantly similar relation to calling the baltimore ravens an expansion team when all tehy did was change cities, name and uniforms but already everyting else. so while the Cardinals did help expand the NL, it's not like they weren't an established club.
The ABA team had the best name of any of them: The Spirits of St. Louis. Along with one of the great characters of all time in Marvin (Bad News) Barnes, who once refused to get on the team plane after a game against the Kentucky Colonels because with the time difference between Louisville and St. Louis, the plane would arrive at Lambert Field 10 minutes before it left Louisville. Said Marvin: "I ain't gettin' on no time machine." (The ABA had plans to merge the Spirits with the Utah Stars. The thought of Bad News playing in Salt Lake City in 1976 would've made millions of heads to explode.) The Spirits hired as their radio play-by-play announcer a kid out of Syracuse University named Bob Costas. (Wonder what ever happened to him?) When he met Jack Buck at KMOX radio, Jack asked how old he was, and when Costas told him he was 23, Jack replied, "I've got ties older than you, kid." A game after one where the Spirits had lost after giving up a big lead, Costas asked his color man how the team would recover from "last night's blow job." (Maybe that's why they lost.) The NBA didn't want the Spirits, so they made a deal to make the team go away. The team's owners would get a share of the league's TV rights IN PERPETUITY. After almost 50 years, the owners had gotten BILLIONS of dollars to not play a single game (talk about a sweetheart deal) until the NBA finally negotiated an end to it. So while The Spirits of St. Louis weren't a success on the court, they made off like bandits off of it.
@@fantasticvoyage262 I have no idea exactly how much the owners eventually got from the NBA, but considering that it was a full share of the league's national TV contracts from 1976 to around 2015, I would say they made billions off of the deal, and any money that David Stern negotiated to get out of the deal was mere chump change.
No curse and plenty of good teams. I am really glad to have finally seen a super bowl and Stanley Cup winner, as the Cardinals are number one here. I was a little too young to remember the NBA 1950s championship but the Hawks were very good their last year in 1967-1968 but poor attendance why owner Ben Kerner moved the Hawks to Atlanta,, especially during their early round playoff exit. I followed the Hawks my grade school years and was disappointed they moved. I have heard Race may have been a factor at that time with so many Black ballplayers but today wonder if the Black community could have been in better position to support them. Regrdless, their last year was the first year of the Blues and their long playoff run made for lots of excitement and diehard Blues fans. The key for the Blues like most sports team is ownership stability. I remember the foootball Big Red coming from Chicago in 1960. They did have good teams in the 1960s and 1970s but not enough for a title. They never won a playoff game unless you count the 1964 playoff bowl of runner-ups St. Louis in the East and Green Bay in the West. This was only a battle of second place teams with no advancement. Twice the Big Red in the 1960s barely missed playing in the NFL title game. The Big Red were mostly mediocre unlike the Rams that brought both the best and the worst performances. Attendance was not an issue since owner Bill Bidwell wanted to stay in St. Louis but wanted an all football stadium, which was a reasoable request. Per St. Lous sports historian Greg Marecek their failure resulted from a clash of St. Louis city and county governemnts over stadium location resulting in no stadium. Blame St. Louis for the Big Red moving. Bill Bidwell though thought Phoenix would right away build a new stadium but it took 18 years so they played at Arizona State all those years. Blame the NFL though for the Rams moving. The NFL got their team for Stan Kroenke in the large TV market but St. Louis should have been awarded an expansion team as part of the resolution. The NFL Relocation committee recommended the Rams stay in St. Louis. It took Stan Kroenke signing an indemnification agreement to compensate NFL owners in the event of any St . Louis lawsuits to approve their move. It was learned later on this swung most of the votes from the first vote to the second vote. What a scam. An owner would have been found to make contribtion for the new St. Louis stadium that was progressing so fast. Owneship commitment to a region is key as seen by the local owners of Enterprise and others to privately fund the new soccer stadium for the new team. There is big soccer interest but not enough for any taxpayer funding of a stadium. St. Louis from huge TV market viewing of the Chiefs and NFL and strong support of the XFL Battle Hwaks minor league team is worthy of a team. I do not however see the same desire for another NBA team.
I wish the city would have pushed a lot harder for an expansion team after the Rams lawsuit. I guess the lawyers wanted a big payday. Did anything good ever happen with the settlement money?
Not yet as the city still has not decided how to spend the money and it took a year to start getting interest on the money trying to figure it out. I think some may be going to the America Center. The people mostly want better security like more police, better security lighting, and anything to try and curb crime. We were told it would hae been difficult for a jury to determine the amount and if too much awarded would have been appealed anyway. Others want just basic services improved in the city. This lawsuit when it started seemed like a real long shot because the NFL never loses. I think the NFL could have awarded an expansion team and then hopefully there would have been no need for a lawsuit and the NFL would have still gotten their team in the large TV market of L.A.. . @ticvoyage262
7:00 They were also known as the Cardiac Cardinals because of their ability to choke. 10:00 I'm told the reason the Hawks moved is that the owners didn't like the fact that they mostly had African-American fans.
Actually, the owner Ben Kerner simply wanted fans. This comment makes no sense when moving to Atlanta. In the Hawks last year 1967-1968 the Hawks had an excellent team with poor attendance including an early round defeat with few in attendance. The city also fell in love with the Blues. I have read though that Race at that time being a factor with many Black players but would have hoped the Black population of St. Louis would have supported them. It was a different time. I just do not see that much basketball interest in St. Louis compared to its other sports including football which remains big here. Just look at the huge numbers of TV viewing of the Chiefs and other NFL games and support of a minor league Battle Hawks team. The 1970s Big Red were called the Cardiac Cardinals because of so many comebacks mostly wins and some losses. Those teams though never won a playoff game. @@PenguinNote67
They were the Cardiac Cardinals because they had so many comebacks mostly wins some losses at the end of the game. Those were the 1970s teams and the 1960s may have actually been closer to having a team in the NFL title game prior to the Super Bowl. They did however never win a playoff game. I have a Big Red history book by St. Lous sports historian Greg Marecek. The Hawks moving to Atlanta does not make sense for your other comment however do believe Race at that time was the reason. The Hawks had poor attendance and maybe the Black community at that time not in position to support them better. It might be different today. The Hawks their last year in 1967-1968 had an excellent team but an early playoff exit. Owner Ben Kerner seeing poor attendance for a great team saw it is the last straw. I think owner Ben Kerner himself was color blind as there were mostly Black players on the team. In an indirect manner you might be right. I have a St. Lousi Hawks history book by St. Louis sports historian Greg Marecek. I was disappointed the Hawks left as I followed them my grade school years. That was also the first year of the Blues and like many immediaitely became a diehard Blues fan. I have never seen though much interest in another NBA team, after the ABA Spirits left but football interest is still very high for an NFL expansion team. Ownership though for an NFL team would need to be similar to the new ownership of the St. Louis soccer team committed to the region without heavy taxpayer funding of a stadium and be closer to the privately funded soccer staium.
Most of this you're right. You forgot the Hawks who won an NBA Championship, made the Finals 4 times, and made the playoffs in all but 1 year of their existence
I'll speak from experience, my soccer team is cursed for not winning international/continental titles, but this year we reached the finals again and it could end...
@@PenguinNote67 I never could figure the Hawks, I thought the NBA would do good in St. Louis and still do. If OKC and New Orleans can have the NBA, why not St. Louis ?
Not sure if you've ever seen the movie "Eddie" with Whoopi Goldberg. Not to be a spoiler or anything like that, but the owner of the Knicks was planning on moving the team to St. Louis in the movie
@@PenguinNote67 Fun fact: The Cardinals haven't finished last place in the National League since 1918. It's the longest streak in baseball and probably any American sport. The Red Sox in the American League are the only team even close to that having avoided last place since 1932.
Listen dude. St Louis was the soccer capital, but it has changed nowadays. You’re current soccer team is a success so far, but KC has a MLS team, NWSL team, Indoor soccer team, the first women’s soccer stadium, several championships across the teams, and we’re one of the host cities for the 2026 World Cup. I get it, you are patriotic and want to believe you are better than your rivals, but even if we aren’t the soccer capital, you aren’t anymore either.
a. Cool, we have an indoor soccer team too, the St. Louis Ambush, and the Taylor family (owns St. Louis CITY, iydk) is considering bringing an NWSL franchise to St. Louis as well. That advantage won't be there for long. b. You only got the privilege of being a World Cup host city because Arrowhead is the only World Cup-caliber stadium in the entire state. If the Dome didn't suck ass and/or if St. Louis had a stadium that met FIFA standards then we'd definitely host over you. c. You were an original MLS franchise, championships are kind of expected. Plus you have academies in St. Louis so we know you try to get young guys from OUR local talent pool lmfao.
The reason why soccer is so big in St. Louis in addition to its immigration roots is because of Catholic Youth League soccer that started in STL around 1947 or so. What is making the current team so strong as well is now also having the largest Bosnian immigration in the country. Getting a team finally had everything to do with the local owners of Enterprise and others to privately buildd the new stadium. There is by comparison a big soccer following but not enough for taxplayers to have funded a new stadium.
If there was a total curse on moving to St. Louis, I would be screwed, but thankfully there isn’t
It's funny that two teams named the Browns moved to Baltimore and changed their name to be after a bird. The Orioles and the Ravens.
Certainly
St. Louis spirit can be revived when the NBA decides to expand after the tv deal is dealt with.
You forgot the St. Louis Battlehawks
Another reason for the Cardinals move to St. Louis was to deny the AFL that market.
I remember seeing that
St. Louis teams and Boston teams have met in more championship matchups than any two cities.
I'm one of those that don't believe in curses. Other than the Hawks, all those teams that left had horrible owners and front offices. And the city leaders weren't very good negotiating the Rams lease. Or was willing to work with the Cardinals for a football only stadium. The Eagles desmise was due to a bad economy. There wasn't a big enough pie to keep the Cardinals and Browns. The same thing happened to other MLB teams years later. I can't help but wonder why the Hawks couldn't move in with the Blues? Maybe it had something to do with the arena not having air conditioning?
while the Cardinals can be considered an expansion team in the national league, they were already an established team, having been a barnstorming team and then playing for ten years in the major league American Association. so it's not like they were an expansion team that started from scratch, they had recognition. and fan base already developed.
a distantly similar relation to calling the baltimore ravens an expansion team when all tehy did was change cities, name and uniforms but already everyting else.
so while the Cardinals did help expand the NL, it's not like they weren't an established club.
The ABA team had the best name of any of them: The Spirits of St. Louis. Along with one of the great characters of all time in Marvin (Bad News) Barnes, who once refused to get on the team plane after a game against the Kentucky Colonels because with the time difference between Louisville and St. Louis, the plane would arrive at Lambert Field 10 minutes before it left Louisville. Said Marvin: "I ain't gettin' on no time machine." (The ABA had plans to merge the Spirits with the Utah Stars. The thought of Bad News playing in Salt Lake City in 1976 would've made millions of heads to explode.)
The Spirits hired as their radio play-by-play announcer a kid out of Syracuse University named Bob Costas. (Wonder what ever happened to him?) When he met Jack Buck at KMOX radio, Jack asked how old he was, and when Costas told him he was 23, Jack replied, "I've got ties older than you, kid." A game after one where the Spirits had lost after giving up a big lead, Costas asked his color man how the team would recover from "last night's blow job." (Maybe that's why they lost.)
The NBA didn't want the Spirits, so they made a deal to make the team go away. The team's owners would get a share of the league's TV rights IN PERPETUITY. After almost 50 years, the owners had gotten BILLIONS of dollars to not play a single game (talk about a sweetheart deal) until the NBA finally negotiated an end to it. So while The Spirits of St. Louis weren't a success on the court, they made off like bandits off of it.
Maybe I'll make a Spirits video one day
How much was the settlement? And who got it?
@@fantasticvoyage262 I have no idea exactly how much the owners eventually got from the NBA, but considering that it was a full share of the league's national TV contracts from 1976 to around 2015, I would say they made billions off of the deal, and any money that David Stern negotiated to get out of the deal was mere chump change.
The Spirits of St Louis never moved away to another city however
I didn't know the St. Louis Hawks (NHL) were the Original Ottawa Senators.
Technically the St. Louis EAGLES
How about a video on the UFL BattleHawks? Expansion team with XFL roots and St. Louis has shown great support.
Just wait. A football video is coming
No curse and plenty of good teams. I am really glad to have finally seen a super bowl and Stanley Cup winner, as the Cardinals are number one here. I was a little too young to remember the NBA 1950s championship but the Hawks were very good their last year in 1967-1968 but poor attendance why owner Ben Kerner moved the Hawks to Atlanta,, especially during their early round playoff exit. I followed the Hawks my grade school years and was disappointed they moved. I have heard Race may have been a factor at that time with so many Black ballplayers but today wonder if the Black community could have been in better position to support them. Regrdless, their last year was the first year of the Blues and their long playoff run made for lots of excitement and diehard Blues fans. The key for the Blues like most sports team is ownership stability. I remember the foootball Big Red coming from Chicago in 1960. They did have good teams in the 1960s and 1970s but not enough for a title. They never won a playoff game unless you count the 1964 playoff bowl of runner-ups St. Louis in the East and Green Bay in the West. This was only a battle of second place teams with no advancement. Twice the Big Red in the 1960s barely missed playing in the NFL title game. The Big Red were mostly mediocre unlike the Rams that brought both the best and the worst performances. Attendance was not an issue since owner Bill Bidwell wanted to stay in St. Louis but wanted an all football stadium, which was a reasoable request. Per St. Lous sports historian Greg Marecek their failure resulted from a clash of St. Louis city and county governemnts over stadium location resulting in no stadium. Blame St. Louis for the Big Red moving. Bill Bidwell though thought Phoenix would right away build a new stadium but it took 18 years so they played at Arizona State all those years. Blame the NFL though for the Rams moving. The NFL got their team for Stan Kroenke in the large TV market but St. Louis should have been awarded an expansion team as part of the resolution. The NFL Relocation committee recommended the Rams stay in St. Louis. It took Stan Kroenke signing an indemnification agreement to compensate NFL owners in the event of any St . Louis lawsuits to approve their move. It was learned later on this swung most of the votes from the first vote to the second vote. What a scam. An owner would have been found to make contribtion for the new St. Louis stadium that was progressing so fast. Owneship commitment to a region is key as seen by the local owners of Enterprise and others to privately fund the new soccer stadium for the new team. There is big soccer interest but not enough for any taxpayer funding of a stadium. St. Louis from huge TV market viewing of the Chiefs and NFL and strong support of the XFL Battle Hwaks minor league team is worthy of a team. I do not however see the same desire for another NBA team.
I disagree with the NBA. St. Louis can support an NBA team
I have just not seen it even attempted since the Spirits left. @@PenguinNote67
I wish the city would have pushed a lot harder for an expansion team after the Rams lawsuit. I guess the lawyers wanted a big payday. Did anything good ever happen with the settlement money?
Not yet as the city still has not decided how to spend the money and it took a year to start getting interest on the money trying to figure it out. I think some may be going to the America Center. The people mostly want better security like more police, better security lighting, and anything to try and curb crime. We were told it would hae been difficult for a jury to determine the amount and if too much awarded would have been appealed anyway. Others want just basic services improved in the city. This lawsuit when it started seemed like a real long shot because the NFL never loses. I think the NFL could have awarded an expansion team and then hopefully there would have been no need for a lawsuit and the NFL would have still gotten their team in the large TV market of L.A.. . @ticvoyage262
7:00 They were also known as the Cardiac Cardinals because of their ability to choke.
10:00 I'm told the reason the Hawks moved is that the owners didn't like the fact that they mostly had African-American fans.
I remember seeing that. But that wasn't until later
Actually, the owner Ben Kerner simply wanted fans. This comment makes no sense when moving to Atlanta. In the Hawks last year 1967-1968 the Hawks had an excellent team with poor attendance including an early round defeat with few in attendance. The city also fell in love with the Blues. I have read though that Race at that time being a factor with many Black players but would have hoped the Black population of St. Louis would have supported them. It was a different time. I just do not see that much basketball interest in St. Louis compared to its other sports including football which remains big here. Just look at the huge numbers of TV viewing of the Chiefs and other NFL games and support of a minor league Battle Hawks team. The 1970s Big Red were called the Cardiac Cardinals because of so many comebacks mostly wins and some losses. Those teams though never won a playoff game. @@PenguinNote67
They were the Cardiac Cardinals because they had so many comebacks mostly wins some losses at the end of the game. Those were the 1970s teams and the 1960s may have actually been closer to having a team in the NFL title game prior to the Super Bowl. They did however never win a playoff game. I have a Big Red history book by St. Lous sports historian Greg Marecek. The Hawks moving to Atlanta does not make sense for your other comment however do believe Race at that time was the reason. The Hawks had poor attendance and maybe the Black community at that time not in position to support them better. It might be different today. The Hawks their last year in 1967-1968 had an excellent team but an early playoff exit. Owner Ben Kerner seeing poor attendance for a great team saw it is the last straw. I think owner Ben Kerner himself was color blind as there were mostly Black players on the team. In an indirect manner you might be right. I have a St. Lousi Hawks history book by St. Louis sports historian Greg Marecek. I was disappointed the Hawks left as I followed them my grade school years. That was also the first year of the Blues and like many immediaitely became a diehard Blues fan. I have never seen though much interest in another NBA team, after the ABA Spirits left but football interest is still very high for an NFL expansion team. Ownership though for an NFL team would need to be similar to the new ownership of the St. Louis soccer team committed to the region without heavy taxpayer funding of a stadium and be closer to the privately funded soccer staium.
most of the teams that moved to St Louis just sucked. only the Rams did well and we know what happed with them
Most of this you're right. You forgot the Hawks who won an NBA Championship, made the Finals 4 times, and made the playoffs in all but 1 year of their existence
What about the battle hawks?
They are considered a minor league team so they don't count
@@PenguinNote67 you're gonna regret saying that. ⚔️🦅
I'll speak from experience, my soccer team is cursed for not winning international/continental titles, but this year we reached the finals again and it could end...
St. Louis hasn't had any soccer teams I could consider professional (until St. Louis CITY SC)
Cards move to houston nuts
It was all because of tax evasion
The football Cardinals almost gone to Dallas if Lamar Hunt got but the NFL stop it that led Hunt and Bud Adams to founded the AFL in 1959
So where is the curse ? Poor ownership ? When you have to deal with the Veecks, Bidwells and Kroenkes, oh sorry I found the curses!
But that doesn't explain the Eagles and Hawks.
@@PenguinNote67 I never could figure the Hawks, I thought the NBA would do good in St. Louis and still do. If OKC and New Orleans can have the NBA, why not St. Louis ?
@dennishaas4745 that's what I'm saying
Veeck and Disco demolition night got his family kick out of Baseball
you forgot the spirit aba team in the 70s!
I'm not counting them. If they would have merged into the NBA, then I would count them
@@PenguinNote67they got a full share of the revenue for over forty years and then were bought off for more millions!
@winddmmy wow. I should do a video on them
@@PenguinNote67please
@winddmmy I will save it don't worry
Here's an interesting coincidence. Every Boston team's first championship since 1957 was won against a St. Louis team.
*realizes*
😲
Which makes the 2019 Stanley Cup Finals run that much sweeter. Especially on Boston ice.
Not sure if you've ever seen the movie "Eddie" with Whoopi Goldberg. Not to be a spoiler or anything like that, but the owner of the Knicks was planning on moving the team to St. Louis in the movie
Interesting. I need to watch it one day
Hey penguin note could you make a video on the Kansas City Kings
I'll certainly put it into consideration
How about the Kansas City A's
The rams should've stayed in Los Angeles 1995-2015. Maybe the Jaguars or Packers should relocate to St. Louis.
Jaguars, maybe. Packers, have you lost your mind?
@@PenguinNote67 As a Bears fan, I would like to have a rivalry with St. Louis in the NFL
@anthonyrivera2003 I would hope that if St. Louis ever gets another team, that they are placed in the NFC North
The city should have been awarded one of the expansion bids in 1992 or 1993.
You're right, there is no curse for moving to St.Louis. The curse is just for living in St.Louis.
11 World Series, a Stanley Cup, a Super Bowl, an NBA Championship, the Gateway Arch, Louis IX and everyone else in St. Louis would say otherwise
@@PenguinNote67 Fun fact: The Cardinals haven't finished last place in the National League since 1918. It's the longest streak in baseball and probably any American sport. The Red Sox in the American League are the only team even close to that having avoided last place since 1932.
Listen dude. St Louis was the soccer capital, but it has changed nowadays. You’re current soccer team is a success so far, but KC has a MLS team, NWSL team, Indoor soccer team, the first women’s soccer stadium, several championships across the teams, and we’re one of the host cities for the 2026 World Cup. I get it, you are patriotic and want to believe you are better than your rivals, but even if we aren’t the soccer capital, you aren’t anymore either.
Alright and?
a. Cool, we have an indoor soccer team too, the St. Louis Ambush, and the Taylor family (owns St. Louis CITY, iydk) is considering bringing an NWSL franchise to St. Louis as well. That advantage won't be there for long.
b. You only got the privilege of being a World Cup host city because Arrowhead is the only World Cup-caliber stadium in the entire state. If the Dome didn't suck ass and/or if St. Louis had a stadium that met FIFA standards then we'd definitely host over you.
c. You were an original MLS franchise, championships are kind of expected. Plus you have academies in St. Louis so we know you try to get young guys from OUR local talent pool lmfao.
The reason why soccer is so big in St. Louis in addition to its immigration roots is because of Catholic Youth League soccer that started in STL around 1947 or so. What is making the current team so strong as well is now also having the largest Bosnian immigration in the country. Getting a team finally had everything to do with the local owners of Enterprise and others to privately buildd the new stadium. There is by comparison a big soccer following but not enough for taxplayers to have funded a new stadium.