yup, watching for fun to see how people rate the team i used to use. Rocking the low tier gang with 1 broken assist that apparently carried the rest. 🤣
The tier list vids are awesome. id totally watch more of these, especially with rotating guests. Then at the end of the year maybe finish with a tier list of tier lists.
Yeah I just saw the video that jmcroft's did before this about suggestions on adjusting the ratios and it sounded like an interesting take. Don't know if Justin saw that video or not and maybe my brain is making a connection because of the video where JM found him in 3rd strike and got absolutely crushed by Justin.
Yes, but have characters from 0 to 10 rather than 0 to 5, with the total score going up from 7 to 14. That gives you more room to make characters slightly cheaper or more expensive. Like right now there are some characters that are deemed too expensive, but if you take a point they'd be too good.
the interesting part of jms video was the assist qualification i like that, but i understand y people wouldnt like it cuz its gonna make mvc tiers alot more complicated
@@nexus6100 Justin commented on it in jest at least, so he is at least aware of it. Given the nature of this video, I'm not surprised if its working its way to a rebalanced ratio.
@@penismightier9278 yeah the low-mid tiers are where all the fun in this game are tbh. It’s still hype to see Magneto Storm Psy teams etc but I love seeing teams that run characters like Akuma or Cammy and stuff like that! Megaman is super fun too!
I love that the Dark Sakura argument has been going strong for over 20 years. Way back when I was in high school kids talked about how it was unstoppable in Japan.
Dark Sakura is definitely top tier, but even if you don't transform her she's still pretty good, she has 100% stamina, you can combo with her or play runaway, you can be all day in the air throwing hadokens, any hit she lands goes into shouken cancel into super, she has an easy infinite against sentinel and a she has the ken infinite as well. The thing she lacks the most is a good assist but other than that I think she's a very underrated character in this game. I think Justin placed her in the right tier this time
@@midare39 dark Sakura is *NOT* top tier. No way no how. Frame perfect runaway is crazy ass theory fighter at its best. Her run away isn’t better than Dhalsim who never has to be on the screen and can call assists all day to chip with little to no execution required. It’s not better than storm. It’s just not good. You say that she can be in the air all day as if no one can get to her up there and she’s safe when she is not. She doesn’t have an 8 way air dash or an air dash at all. She does not have unfly. She doesn’t have broken normals. Everybody has an infinite against a standing sent but HOW WILL YOU LAND IT? Sent is rarely standing and she is a character that either gets locked down by spit x fly x spit, or gets baited into air hadokens aka getting hit by the frying pan. She is not top tier.
@@GlitchanBlack in your opinion, would that be enough to make her top tier? does that tool put her up there with strider/doom (screen control, mix, chip), cyc (meter build, chip, infinite, invincible dp, easy damage, great assist), Iron Man, Dhalsim (best run away ever, sj rh, rushdown, unblockable setups, corner carry and corner mixups) and Blackheart (screen control, chip)?
There's a couple guys that can almost hang, but Mag, Sent, Storm are in a class all by themselves. That's been clear since the arcade days. As much as things have changed since then, it's amazing how much they've stayed the same.
But I am willing to change to be honest. We don't need to be conservative about that. So people need to speak up with their own mind about Cable and Iron Man
Man, not only can Iceman negate chip. His Ice beam does good chip and is spamable. Ice ball does a fat chuck of damage. Has a glitched super that is safe. A damage buffing move with good range normals and quick low normals. Also his ice beam assist can go against certain beam supers and sometimes just go though supers all together. Put my man in high tier!
Yeah Iceman should have been AHT, good damage, good assist, good defense. One of the only people he loses cleanly to is Sent. Also AHT only had 7 but mid had 17, seems like it should be a bit more even.
@@fredmitchell5987 Ice Man can’t open anybody up? I’ve seen way to many MVC2 matches over the years that would say differently. I’ve have personally open folks up & got opened up by Ice Man. Plus, his ice beam assist is one of the best assists in the game. Imo, in terms of catching faster characters legit depends on the player’s style of play.
MVC2 time stamp for tier list not finished Roll: roll tier 2:10 the 3 2:28 cable 2:45: iron man 4:25: strider, doom 4:45: dhalsim 5:09 War Machine 5:31: cammy 6:09: RubyHeart 7:34: anacurus (idk) 8:35: Psyclocke 9:00 Captain Commander 9:24: ruby heart again Bans: 9:34: 10:30: Almost high tier 10:55: Mega Red 10:59: silver samurai 12:03: colossus 13:20: Rogue 13:55: Tron 14:20 Juggernaut 14:41: Guile 15:11: Charlie 16:00: Servbot, Dan 16:10 Chun Li 17:50: Wolverine 18:10 Ryu 18:27: cap opinions cap
Yo! You got Chris Matrix! Hype I LOVE the No Frillz podcast so much. It’s awesome getting his opinion on this is amazing cuz he’s kinda an expert on the game
Nice collab! JWong and Chris! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the 2022 tier list! 😁 Mixed emotions here particularly Anakaris as I have been promoting this guy as at least the lowest of the High Tier league. I even had a quick survey to those who have witnessed through the years, and the result is he's definitely high tier. 🤣 Sad, because him still being on mid tier.. If its all about the bad health, I thnk the best comparative character would be strider, because they have the same health defense, and strider only works (imo) with the right team. When played right, Anakaris can be played with a team or even ALONE (done a lot of solo comebacks vs god/tops). Curse infinites is just a part of his perks, I don't even use it like 95% of the matchups for the past 21 yrs.. 😁🤣. I think it is a misconception that a player should play anakaris because of the curse infinite. As a Ruby and Anak player, I also kinda don't agree that Ruby is above Anakaris. I know its not just about solo comebacks, but its like I have 8 anakaris comebacks against only 2 ruby comebacks. Maybe, Anakaris could have been put at Almost High Tier along with Ruby though 😁. Most of the characters on the top and near top tier in this 2022 list, I would love fighting the most. For gods, Anakaris likes fighting sentinel and cable. Vs storm and magneto is a challenge definitely. On the other hand, I'm happy that Anakaris is still mid tier, because I can still use him on Low/Mid tier tourneys, or promote him beating out top/god tier characters hehe 🤣. I agree with the other characters placements and the justifications. Kudos to the both of you! Looking forward for an updated Ratio Tier List.. Ratio teams battles are widely accepted nowadays I believe.
"On the other hand, I'm happy that Anakaris is still mid tier, because I can still use him on Low/Mid tier tourneys" -> totally agree with this coz i want to see more of Anakaris gameplay in all formats hehe
Good video. I liked this format of two people working on the tier list together with some debate and disagreement. As always, the variety of guests that Justin brings on is also really good.
I agree with Dhalsim being a god/high tier character. His rush down and mobility are too good for him not to be. I think his only real weaknesses are execution holds him back, and his launcher is trash which you need to get his damage off. I see him almost like a magneto/sentinel hybrid in the way he rushes down but can also oppress people with his god like normals
@@HiResDez False Dhalsim can actually deal some of the highest damage in the game. His combos can easily do 60-70%. If you have the right assist you can 100% a good portion of the cast. It all goes back to his launcher. Its bad interms of hitbox, but its pretty safe and fast. Also though he can zone with his normals, his projectile game sucks too.
@@noobtuber10 cyclops helps both BH and Dhalsim. You get an easy set up for infinites with BH and with Sim you can set up your most damaging combos. I run BH/Storm/Cyclops. My Dhalsim teams I was thinking would be Dhalsim/Storm/Cyclops or Dhalsim/BH/Cyclops
What about making a market for determining "prices" and weights of the characters based on popularity/performance. Take data from competitive, like, everybody logs and shares their matches. Then we take all data and make a matrix of win/loss, assign prices based on performance. statistics etc. Make a total cap on the total value you can spend on the team. This way the meta evolves and prices balance out on what really works... overpowered -> expensive, but if people evolve, the values drops... Is what we have now enough already? Maybe we can automate with some tools...
You could sort of make that with machine learning. Make one machine learning ai that learn how to play to play the game playing random teams vs random teams and a second one that decide the ratio of the character based at how balanced the matches were.
This is so much fun! I'll watch arguing tier lists all day! Feels like it could be Rogan for MvC nerds, just keep bringing on guests and learning through conversation and debate
I'd like to see an update to the UMVC3 Tier List video because that one SORELY needs to be revised. Maybe you can get someone knowledgeable on the game and collab some time!
What's amazing about this discussion is that 20 years AFTER this game has come out, these guys are still giving encycopedic knowledge about the characters, their strengths and weaknesses. And folks are still finding new ways to play this game even to this day is testament to consider MVC2 arguably the greatest fighting game ever.
its very interesting seeing what these two look for primarily in a character. Matrix for most characters looks at mobility first as an aspect of tier, as to why you see him be hesitant over characters like Ruby and Thanos and push for anakaris and chun. Justin on the other hand is about neutral and unique options. But foir sure if your character has no damage it has no love lol
Love seeing your channel grow Justin. You and Daigo have been my heroes since I was younger and I wish all the future success on your channel. Thanks for all the content, laughs, and thrills of victories and defeat. #Legend
Really enjoyed! I like the idea of making a tier list with someone else to help balance your biases. I'm gonna have to go with Justin on this one and say the only things I would really change is having Juggernaut and Iceman in almost high tier. Let's see more of this kind of stuff! Maybe one for Marvel 3 with the new modded characters?
Something I've been thinking about and was raised in this video: If every character had an 8 way dash, who'd be the best character I wonder. Are any characters an 8-way dash away from dethroning the god tier
pretty sick how this game is still developing like this haha. 10-15 years ago, if I saw a team of like Megaman, Dhalsim, Sakura, I'd think damn this dude is running some of the worst characters in the game
I think Hulk should move up a tier. His damage is insane if you know how to combo with him. Especially if you can cancel into his Gamma Crush hyper combo.
2 года назад+2
Oh yeah side note for Iceman, he doesn’t take chip from ENERGY projectiles. Normal projectiles like rocks and Missiles do chip though, sadly Mag and Storm supers count as normal projectiles.
The potential of Dark Sakura def gets her in Almost High imo. Back in the day people were scared of expensive installs but tbh Phoenix changed a lot of people's minds for that and hopefully new players can continue to innovate online in the future.
Lots of commonly claimed low-tier characters have tons of hidden potential. Sakura/Dark Sakura, obviously, but then you've got characters like Silver Samurai, Jill Valentine, Hayato, and - hell - even B. B. Hood!
I like what jmcrofts said: What if some characters are worth X overall but worth X + Y with certain assists. For instance, CapCom is mid if you choose Fireball assist, but if you choose Corridor he's instantly high tier. Also, Juggernaut and Colossus not being on the same tier seems wrong. Either both high or both low.
Jill, Hulk, and Amingo I feel like should be raised higher. They all have some crazy damage when using them with 100% combos. Iceman should be higher. He does a lot of chip and combines well with doom’s rocks. Not taking chip is amazing and gives you more life to call more assists. He can also air combo into his super and allow you to dhc into a heavy hitter. Juggernaut should be higher due to the power up glitch. I’ve seen iceman and juggernaut combine really well. Akuma has a nice air game and decent assist. He can also hit confirm easily into super. I feel like he should be higher alongside guile.
I would argue Sonson to be at least mid to almost high because of a couple other tools that she has. Wall run is good because because it can be used to retreat or to punish from full screen, and it's pretty much cancellable at any point when not attacking. It also forces the screen to stay on the lower part of the stage, which can disorient characters who like to super jump a lot. Her command throw stuffs advancing/dash specials and supers. The giant ape super can be used to react-punish a lot of stuff because of the invincibility and hyper armour she gets. It does decent chip damage and is relatively safe on shield. Staff super is a warning to everyone not to mess around when they're above her. The bit about her air dash being slowest is a bit of an exaggeration since the cloud literally appears almost instantly under her feet. If anything, Spidey and Tron's air dashes are slower. Between her air dash, wall run, and ground crawl she can get around and mix things up pretty effectively.
My team back in the early days 2000-2003 was always Jill/Hayate Iceman, Akuma, sad to see they are all considered mid to low tier, but I was having fun
I took three Chun-li's into training mode to try and force her to work...and I was impressed after awhile with chaining her into Delayed Hyper Combos. But then I actually tried to face someone and was humbled...so in theory she could be good, just as long as your opponent doesn't pick anyone else a tier above her 😅😊
Jin HAS a command grab and it's like Laura's super in SFV I think the command is →\↓/← k (I just used slash because I can't find a diagonal arrow in my keyboard)
Also Justin it would be dope if u did a series where u actually explain the terms used in FGC & as u explain them u show them in game. It would be great to help new people understand more & entertaining for us that are older & already understand 🤷🏾♂ jussayin I think that would be a dope series deadass
Imma try labbing Jill Spyral Venom. Others would choose Sabretooth but venom fang has some more verticality, comes out faster, can buy enough time for a fire zombie from the knockback. And Spyral assist can help Jill get in to apply pressure, if they aren't jumping. I had to take a break from gaming for a bit tho cuz playing rhythm games, rts, fighting games, fps, all in the same week for months really messed up my wrists so I won't promise imma play against ppl but this is better than last format for me which was jill bison morrigan lol. This format Spyral is gonna do work tho ngl, which I think will bump some assist options up to mid tier. Could run dp and sabretooth with her. I might wanna try Dhalsim some too because the high mechanical skill required but that kinda thinking is gonna murder my wrists again lol.
As I’ve said in this channel before, Mega Man with Marvel 1 Beat Plane/Rush Drill would instantly make him high tier. He’s got all the makings of a perfect trap character but just can’t convert openings into damage the way you see Strider, Doom, Spiral and Blackheart manage to. At least he has a solid matchup against Storm, that’s more than 80% of the cast can say.
THESE LISTS ARE IMPORTANT: WHY you ask? , imagine you find the lone machine and select at least two low/mid chars to practice their funky mechanics and combos vs the cpu. The opponent then arrives to the arcade mid playthrough, walks up coin, push start and selects themself 2 of their own low/mids, to disrespect you with them. If its a low skill player practicing high tier chars vs cpu you still chose the low/mids on the first coin for maximum disrespect, that loss is so destructive that they either leave the machine for you or rage challenge you again to increase your win count, if you can't beat them because the cheese is too strong thats when you lock in the psy/mag/storm
Ryu has instant air super (tiger knee shinku is actually faster than AHVB if opponent is half-screen or closer), good damaging invincible AA assist, can punish assist safely, etc.
Ryu’s weakness is his buttons. His normals are trash. Mainly their hit boxes. He’s a fairly trash character with a high tier super and semi decent assists.
Could talking about Jins B assist and his Saotome Shine mechanic land him in Mid? It's sucks his command throw can be blocked, but with assist it can be trapped into for some good damage.
Who else watching this again after the MvC Collection announcement?
yup, watching for fun to see how people rate the team i used to use. Rocking the low tier gang with 1 broken assist that apparently carried the rest. 🤣
I did lol
"Ofcourse you thinking about laming people out" that was a gem
had me laughing my ass off. lolol
Mind you I love playing lame too and timer scamming whenever possible. Gotta get that W baby
Pretty predictable, but hey some people are dazzled by anything.
@@PayneWewtonSomeone needs to get off their high horse 👀
AW YEAH I BEEN WAITING FOR THIS
Just watched yours a day ago
They need to implement your 5.5, 4.5 system
I LOVE YOU CROFTS
The tier list vids are awesome. id totally watch more of these, especially with rotating guests. Then at the end of the year maybe finish with a tier list of tier lists.
Amingo is climbing that latter baby.
Really interested in seeing Justin do an update to the Ratio tier list
Yeah I just saw the video that jmcroft's did before this about suggestions on adjusting the ratios and it sounded like an interesting take. Don't know if Justin saw that video or not and maybe my brain is making a connection because of the video where JM found him in 3rd strike and got absolutely crushed by Justin.
Yes, but have characters from 0 to 10 rather than 0 to 5, with the total score going up from 7 to 14.
That gives you more room to make characters slightly cheaper or more expensive. Like right now there are some characters that are deemed too expensive, but if you take a point they'd be too good.
the interesting part of jms video was the assist qualification i like that, but i understand y people wouldnt like it cuz its gonna make mvc tiers alot more complicated
Yeah, and just a couple days after jmcrofts suggested it needed an update in his video too......
@@nexus6100 Justin commented on it in jest at least, so he is at least aware of it. Given the nature of this video, I'm not surprised if its working its way to a rebalanced ratio.
Amingo working his way up the tier list, you love to see it
I love that funky cactus so much.
Pickle Bean!!
It's about time. I guess that's what happens when people finally look at something besides the best in the game.
@@penismightier9278 yeah the low-mid tiers are where all the fun in this game are tbh. It’s still hype to see Magneto Storm Psy teams etc but I love seeing teams that run characters like Akuma or Cammy and stuff like that! Megaman is super fun too!
I'd like to learn him. How does his instant overhead work? Who are the best Amingo players to follow?
I love that the Dark Sakura argument has been going strong for over 20 years. Way back when I was in high school kids talked about how it was unstoppable in Japan.
Dark Sakura is definitely top tier, but even if you don't transform her she's still pretty good, she has 100% stamina, you can combo with her or play runaway, you can be all day in the air throwing hadokens, any hit she lands goes into shouken cancel into super, she has an easy infinite against sentinel and a she has the ken infinite as well. The thing she lacks the most is a good assist but other than that I think she's a very underrated character in this game. I think Justin placed her in the right tier this time
@@midare39 dark Sakura is *NOT* top tier. No way no how. Frame perfect runaway is crazy ass theory fighter at its best.
Her run away isn’t better than Dhalsim who never has to be on the screen and can call assists all day to chip with little to no execution required. It’s not better than storm. It’s just not good. You say that she can be in the air all day as if no one can get to her up there and she’s safe when she is not. She doesn’t have an 8 way air dash or an air dash at all. She does not have unfly. She doesn’t have broken normals.
Everybody has an infinite against a standing sent but HOW WILL YOU LAND IT? Sent is rarely standing and she is a character that either gets locked down by spit x fly x spit, or gets baited into air hadokens aka getting hit by the frying pan.
She is not top tier.
@@MalikEmmanuel I didn't say god tier I said top tier, if cyclops or strider are top tier then her dark form may be top tier as well
@@MalikEmmanuelGood argument.
Counter-point. Ashura Senku beats Hyper Sentinel Force.
@@GlitchanBlack in your opinion, would that be enough to make her top tier? does that tool put her up there with strider/doom (screen control, mix, chip), cyc (meter build, chip, infinite, invincible dp, easy damage, great assist), Iron Man, Dhalsim (best run away ever, sj rh, rushdown, unblockable setups, corner carry and corner mixups) and Blackheart (screen control, chip)?
Amingo the hardworkin Mexican grinding his way up in the world day-by-day
There's a couple guys that can almost hang, but Mag, Sent, Storm are in a class all by themselves. That's been clear since the arcade days. As much as things have changed since then, it's amazing how much they've stayed the same.
But I am willing to change to be honest. We don't need to be conservative about that. So people need to speak up with their own mind about Cable and Iron Man
Man, not only can Iceman negate chip. His Ice beam does good chip and is spamable. Ice ball does a fat chuck of damage. Has a glitched super that is safe. A damage buffing move with good range normals and quick low normals. Also his ice beam assist can go against certain beam supers and sometimes just go though supers all together. Put my man in high tier!
He has no way of opening people up or catching some of the faster characters. I think high mid tier is good for him.
Yeah Iceman should have been AHT, good damage, good assist, good defense. One of the only people he loses cleanly to is Sent. Also AHT only had 7 but mid had 17, seems like it should be a bit more even.
@@fredmitchell5987 Ice Man can’t open anybody up? I’ve seen way to many MVC2 matches over the years that would say differently. I’ve have personally open folks up & got opened up by Ice Man. Plus, his ice beam assist is one of the best assists in the game. Imo, in terms of catching faster characters legit depends on the player’s style of play.
MVC2 time stamp for tier list not finished
Roll: roll tier
2:10 the 3
2:28 cable
2:45: iron man
4:25: strider, doom
4:45: dhalsim
5:09 War Machine
5:31: cammy
6:09: RubyHeart
7:34: anacurus (idk)
8:35: Psyclocke
9:00 Captain Commander
9:24: ruby heart again
Bans: 9:34:
10:30: Almost high tier
10:55: Mega Red
10:59: silver samurai
12:03: colossus
13:20: Rogue
13:55: Tron
14:20 Juggernaut
14:41: Guile
15:11: Charlie
16:00: Servbot, Dan
16:10 Chun Li
17:50: Wolverine
18:10 Ryu
18:27: cap opinions cap
Nothing like the boys shooting the shit and having good laughs! This is the content we like to see 🙏
Always entertaining when Matrix is around! Would be nice to see a similar video for UMvC3 with Yipes?
Yessss id love some JWong/Yipes content ! Love to see the tier list with them BUT I'd LOVE to see some MVC2/UMVC3 matches with them as well
More Marvel!
Yo! You got Chris Matrix! Hype I LOVE the No Frillz podcast so much. It’s awesome getting his opinion on this is amazing cuz he’s kinda an expert on the game
Nice collab! JWong and Chris! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the 2022 tier list! 😁
Mixed emotions here particularly Anakaris as I have been promoting this guy as at least the lowest of the High Tier league. I even had a quick survey to those who have witnessed through the years, and the result is he's definitely high tier. 🤣
Sad, because him still being on mid tier.. If its all about the bad health, I thnk the best comparative character would be strider, because they have the same health defense, and strider only works (imo) with the right team. When played right, Anakaris can be played with a team or even ALONE (done a lot of solo comebacks vs god/tops). Curse infinites is just a part of his perks, I don't even use it like 95% of the matchups for the past 21 yrs.. 😁🤣. I think it is a misconception that a player should play anakaris because of the curse infinite.
As a Ruby and Anak player, I also kinda don't agree that Ruby is above Anakaris. I know its not just about solo comebacks, but its like I have 8 anakaris comebacks against only 2 ruby comebacks.
Maybe, Anakaris could have been put at Almost High Tier along with Ruby though 😁. Most of the characters on the top and near top tier in this 2022 list, I would love fighting the most. For gods, Anakaris likes fighting sentinel and cable. Vs storm and magneto is a challenge definitely.
On the other hand, I'm happy that Anakaris is still mid tier, because I can still use him on Low/Mid tier tourneys, or promote him beating out top/god tier characters hehe 🤣.
I agree with the other characters placements and the justifications. Kudos to the both of you!
Looking forward for an updated Ratio Tier List.. Ratio teams battles are widely accepted nowadays I believe.
"On the other hand, I'm happy that Anakaris is still mid tier, because I can still use him on Low/Mid tier tourneys" -> totally agree with this coz i want to see more of Anakaris gameplay in all formats hehe
When Matrix said the mummy I was like.. can we ask Anakaris Curse about this one lmao
Good video. I liked this format of two people working on the tier list together with some debate and disagreement. As always, the variety of guests that Justin brings on is also really good.
Its a crime that Matrix's mic cuts out when he laughs super hard, he has one of the most infectious laughs
Cammy's killer bee is invincible, it goes through Storm's hail.
Really? Wow
@@humaneshadow300 yeah it fully combos too, she doesn't get hit out of it by the ice. She's beastly.
GOOD FUCKING LORD. I did not know this, thank you for sharing it.
I agree with Dhalsim being a god/high tier character. His rush down and mobility are too good for him not to be. I think his only real weaknesses are execution holds him back, and his launcher is trash which you need to get his damage off. I see him almost like a magneto/sentinel hybrid in the way he rushes down but can also oppress people with his god like normals
his damage isn't as high though
@@HiResDez False Dhalsim can actually deal some of the highest damage in the game. His combos can easily do 60-70%. If you have the right assist you can 100% a good portion of the cast. It all goes back to his launcher. Its bad interms of hitbox, but its pretty safe and fast. Also though he can zone with his normals, his projectile game sucks too.
@@KillaRock404 i play a sim/blackheart shell, blackheart assist makes for crazy oppresion on mix amd lockdown, still missing my 3rd though
@@noobtuber10 cyclops helps both BH and Dhalsim. You get an easy set up for infinites with BH and with Sim you can set up your most damaging combos. I run BH/Storm/Cyclops. My Dhalsim teams I was thinking would be Dhalsim/Storm/Cyclops or Dhalsim/BH/Cyclops
@@KillaRock404 i honestly think that sim heart is the final top teir shell
I love Chris Matrix! His commentaries with Yipes are LEGENDARY!!!
Faaaaaaaccts. Waiting for the new #NoFrillz
I love these type of videos. Hopefully you can do tier lists for older vs games despite their relatively low character count.
What about making a market for determining "prices" and weights of the characters based on popularity/performance.
Take data from competitive, like, everybody logs and shares their matches. Then we take all data and make a matrix of win/loss, assign prices based on performance. statistics etc.
Make a total cap on the total value you can spend on the team. This way the meta evolves and prices balance out on what really works... overpowered -> expensive, but if people evolve, the values drops... Is what we have now enough already? Maybe we can automate with some tools...
Bro your on to something
You could sort of make that with machine learning. Make one machine learning ai that learn how to play to play the game playing random teams vs random teams and a second one that decide the ratio of the character based at how balanced the matches were.
This is so much fun! I'll watch arguing tier lists all day! Feels like it could be Rogan for MvC nerds, just keep bringing on guests and learning through conversation and debate
I feel like mvc2 needs 3 tier lists.
1 for point characters
1 for assists
And 1 for combined
I'd like to see an update to the UMVC3 Tier List video because that one SORELY needs to be revised. Maybe you can get someone knowledgeable on the game and collab some time!
I don’t keep up with the fgc as much as I did a decade ago, dam it’s good to see Chris again.
List looks solid, and the rapport between you and Chris was nice 🙂
Shame about the echo on his audio, but it wasn't too bad
who’s here after the new MvC series announcement!
Tron should be almost high tier because of her pressure imo
That block string infinite is od when done right
I think silver samurai/Jug should have gotten a higher tier. just from their supers alone.
What's amazing about this discussion is that 20 years AFTER this game has come out, these guys are still giving encycopedic knowledge about the characters, their strengths and weaknesses. And folks are still finding new ways to play this game even to this day is testament to consider MVC2 arguably the greatest fighting game ever.
its very interesting seeing what these two look for primarily in a character. Matrix for most characters looks at mobility first as an aspect of tier, as to why you see him be hesitant over characters like Ruby and Thanos and push for anakaris and chun. Justin on the other hand is about neutral and unique options.
But foir sure if your character has no damage it has no love lol
i could listen to the pros talk about the cast of this game all day. Such an interesting game.
Absolutely amazing character breakdown and overall knowledge of the game ❤
Look at these 2 legends! Glad to see the Matrix Man. Always coming with the knowledge and positivity!
Spider-Man gotta be in almost high tier. Shout outs to Magusold
He has a infinite too
Love seeing your channel grow Justin. You and Daigo have been my heroes since I was younger and I wish all the future success on your channel. Thanks for all the content, laughs, and thrills of victories and defeat. #Legend
Glad colossus has been approached with the good eye in this tl...🤝🤜🏾
Really enjoyed! I like the idea of making a tier list with someone else to help balance your biases. I'm gonna have to go with Justin on this one and say the only things I would really change is having Juggernaut and Iceman in almost high tier. Let's see more of this kind of stuff! Maybe one for Marvel 3 with the new modded characters?
Matrix got some GREY in that beard bro, wisdom.
Master strategist and tactician 💯
Something I've been thinking about and was raised in this video:
If every character had an 8 way dash, who'd be the best character I wonder. Are any characters an 8-way dash away from dethroning the god tier
No frillz!! Love and miss the podcast! I think Justin needs to make another appearance on it.
pretty sick how this game is still developing like this haha. 10-15 years ago, if I saw a team of like Megaman, Dhalsim, Sakura, I'd think damn this dude is running some of the worst characters in the game
Roll: "I"m just happy to be here"
Love the content. Good to see the Architect Mr. Matrix choppin it up with The Anomaly!
I think Hulk should move up a tier. His damage is insane if you know how to combo with him. Especially if you can cancel into his Gamma Crush hyper combo.
Oh yeah side note for Iceman, he doesn’t take chip from ENERGY projectiles. Normal projectiles like rocks and Missiles do chip though, sadly Mag and Storm supers count as normal projectiles.
This is way more educational than going to school
The potential of Dark Sakura def gets her in Almost High imo. Back in the day people were scared of expensive installs but tbh Phoenix changed a lot of people's minds for that and hopefully new players can continue to innovate online in the future.
Lots of commonly claimed low-tier characters have tons of hidden potential. Sakura/Dark Sakura, obviously, but then you've got characters like Silver Samurai, Jill Valentine, Hayato, and - hell - even B. B. Hood!
You should make a MVC 2 player tier list. I always wondered where fanatic and his one button dash ranked.
I like what jmcrofts said: What if some characters are worth X overall but worth X + Y with certain assists. For instance, CapCom is mid if you choose Fireball assist, but if you choose Corridor he's instantly high tier.
Also, Juggernaut and Colossus not being on the same tier seems wrong. Either both high or both low.
Jill, Hulk, and Amingo I feel like should be raised higher. They all have some crazy damage when using them with 100% combos. Iceman should be higher. He does a lot of chip and combines well with doom’s rocks. Not taking chip is amazing and gives you more life to call more assists. He can also air combo into his super and allow you to dhc into a heavy hitter. Juggernaut should be higher due to the power up glitch. I’ve seen iceman and juggernaut combine really well. Akuma has a nice air game and decent assist. He can also hit confirm easily into super. I feel like he should be higher alongside guile.
Back when this was newish in the arcade Anakaris and Omega Red were my secret weapons.
I just like how my preferred team fit perfectly into the ratio system.
Hayato (1)
Charlie (2)
Commando (4)
(7 points exactly)
That's okay Roll, you're top tier in my heart.
I would love if you did this with a 10 point ranking system.
I would argue Sonson to be at least mid to almost high because of a couple other tools that she has. Wall run is good because because it can be used to retreat or to punish from full screen, and it's pretty much cancellable at any point when not attacking. It also forces the screen to stay on the lower part of the stage, which can disorient characters who like to super jump a lot. Her command throw stuffs advancing/dash specials and supers. The giant ape super can be used to react-punish a lot of stuff because of the invincibility and hyper armour she gets. It does decent chip damage and is relatively safe on shield. Staff super is a warning to everyone not to mess around when they're above her.
The bit about her air dash being slowest is a bit of an exaggeration since the cloud literally appears almost instantly under her feet. If anything, Spidey and Tron's air dashes are slower. Between her air dash, wall run, and ground crawl she can get around and mix things up pretty effectively.
Agreed
All of what you mentioned is mad punishable
Wow, major update! Fascinating.
Not surprised about the promotion amingo got. Nice vid
I wonder if this tier list will change in 2024 with the new game
J Wong, u need to play Matrix with these teams and see if he changes his mind.
Always happy to see the GOAT's opinion on Marvel 2.
Justin has opinions too.
Can we get a pt 2 where you order everyone within each tier by power level? Mostly to hear your deep thought process as to the why
“BucketHead” has the best Ironman in MvC2
I've always felt Cable is underrated, that if you actually learn the character, he's god tier even without ahvb tod's
My favorite character... I think a really good Cable can keep away Sentinel and beat him
I wanna see you do more Dark Sakura, that way you can better show off her placement. Maybe in a tourney video or something
Morrigan should be almost high tier because of her new infinite
Its deadass a 50/50 an ambiguous one at that
Learn me ....link to it?
new infinite as in Justin did it recently (but warganic had it 15+ years ago) or actually new?
ruclips.net/video/9bFb3IzKZZs/видео.html
@@RashaunEatOreos That was figured out in 2004 - maybe earlier - and posted on warganic.
@@Augmintt ohhhhhhhh ok
I like this tierlist a lot more than the first one Justin did on this channel,
Sentinel, Storm, Magneto. Done. 😉
Bottom 3 for sure.
good list but i cant stop thinking about that gold ranger staff behind chris its awesome
My team back in the early days 2000-2003 was always Jill/Hayate Iceman, Akuma, sad to see they are all considered mid to low tier, but I was having fun
You should add more characters to roll tier honestly, especially for people that play ratio since she's the only zero point character.
Ok, so we got an updated character tier list... is there any way to do a MVC2 teams tier list? e.g. teams MSP, MSS, Matrix, Scrub, etc.
Glad to see chris matrix man.
Dark Sakura needing 3 bars and needing perfect execution to pull off strings of teleports… it’s all theory, hard to excute
Never underestimate the power of TAS.
Wouid love to c u and maximillian do a mvc2 tier lost
Good list dhalsim up 1 level, cammy sakura, amingo, thanos each down 1 level and its perfect
WE NEED MORE CHRIS MATRIX AND JUSTIN CONTENT
I took three Chun-li's into training mode to try and force her to work...and I was impressed after awhile with chaining her into Delayed Hyper Combos. But then I actually tried to face someone and was humbled...so in theory she could be good, just as long as your opponent doesn't pick anyone else a tier above her 😅😊
Now need MVC2 Omega Mode with this update, Bison with 8-Way Dash, Akuma with Dark Sakura Teleport and etc.
The fact that I want to get good with Roll tells you how much of a dreamer I am lmao
I main Roll and i can beat even the god tiers with her.
I thought Jin had a command grab....
Iron Man's Una (or whatever it's called) Beam does MORE damage on Block via Chip then if you take on straight up.
Jin HAS a command grab and it's like Laura's super in SFV
I think the command is →\↓/← k (I just used slash because I can't find a diagonal arrow in my keyboard)
Also Justin it would be dope if u did a series where u actually explain the terms used in FGC & as u explain them u show them in game. It would be great to help new people understand more & entertaining for us that are older & already understand 🤷🏾♂ jussayin I think that would be a dope series deadass
I specialize with hulk akuma and cap regardless of tier, they are deadly in my hands
Imma try labbing Jill Spyral Venom. Others would choose Sabretooth but venom fang has some more verticality, comes out faster, can buy enough time for a fire zombie from the knockback. And Spyral assist can help Jill get in to apply pressure, if they aren't jumping. I had to take a break from gaming for a bit tho cuz playing rhythm games, rts, fighting games, fps, all in the same week for months really messed up my wrists so I won't promise imma play against ppl but this is better than last format for me which was jill bison morrigan lol. This format Spyral is gonna do work tho ngl, which I think will bump some assist options up to mid tier. Could run dp and sabretooth with her. I might wanna try Dhalsim some too because the high mechanical skill required but that kinda thinking is gonna murder my wrists again lol.
Need to bring this back... miss matrix
Iceman and Silver Samurai belong in almost high.
As I’ve said in this channel before, Mega Man with Marvel 1 Beat Plane/Rush Drill would instantly make him high tier. He’s got all the makings of a perfect trap character but just can’t convert openings into damage the way you see Strider, Doom, Spiral and Blackheart manage to.
At least he has a solid matchup against Storm, that’s more than 80% of the cast can say.
THESE LISTS ARE IMPORTANT: WHY you ask? , imagine you find the lone machine and select at least two low/mid chars to practice their funky mechanics and combos vs the cpu.
The opponent then arrives to the arcade mid playthrough, walks up coin, push start and selects themself 2 of their own low/mids, to disrespect you with them.
If its a low skill player practicing high tier chars vs cpu you still chose the low/mids on the first coin for maximum disrespect, that loss is so destructive that they either leave the machine for you or rage challenge you again to increase your win count, if you can't beat them because the cheese is too strong thats when you lock in the psy/mag/storm
Anakariscurse does ball out with the character
Would legit like to see the same kind of video with Yipes.
Sigh, everybody hates Roll. I'm going to personally mod her into a mid tier character and post it on my channel. The disrespect for my girl is crazy!
Ryu has instant air super (tiger knee shinku is actually faster than AHVB if opponent is half-screen or closer), good damaging invincible AA assist, can punish assist safely, etc.
I believe AHVB is one frame startup.
Ryu’s weakness is his buttons. His normals are trash. Mainly their hit boxes.
He’s a fairly trash character with a high tier super and semi decent assists.
Could talking about Jins B assist and his Saotome Shine mechanic land him in Mid? It's sucks his command throw can be blocked, but with assist it can be trapped into for some good damage.
This is a good list of characters keep it up
Yo, you need to do a mid-tier battle against Chris Matrix!
I like the red and blue headphones. Definitely on purpose
Cant wait for a 2024 update! #MvC2IsFreed
I want to see Jwong vs Anakaris curse.