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This is all very well but what about people who have no off street parking. Electric cars are not an option at the moment. My nearest public charging point is 15 miles away and there is only one charger. Meanwhile my 2010 Octavia is costing very little to run in terms of servicing and is doing 58 - 62mpg. Many of us can't afford a PCP deal of £250 plus a month.
Yeah, when you add all these thing under maintenance and fuel you actually realize electric is more for the rich with off street parking and those who can afford pcp deals... Which means common people either use ice or public transport.....
@@vampire198014New cars have always been for the more well off. Common people dare I say like you and me will buy second hand cars like they do now! In a few years you will have the option of getting a secondhand EV or Ice vehicle whichever suits your lifestyle. By the time there are no second hand ice vehicles left the charging infrastructure should be up to par
Surely recycling used cars is way better for the environment than us all buying brand new cars that have a massive carbon footprint through manufacturing and development costs. I'll continue to buy recycled vehicles.
@@bullittuk couldn't agree more. It doesn't matter that I can't afford a new car, electric or otherwise. This is about the decisions of those who can, and what I'll be able to buy in 6 or 7 years time. Then, the lower complexity of an electric car should also mean less money on repairs. Sign me up!
@@andrewsanton4977 To me it would make sense for a diesel Corsa to be scrapped by being sent to a third World Country and scraping 30 and 40 year old diesel cars and vans that highly polute Mumbai . Enabling a payment for a UK car , to go towards a PCP or new vehicle rather than scaping Euro 5 or 6 diesels and crushing them into Cubes , whilst third world taxis etc are held together belching out tonnes of Co 2 .
Fuel in the US is much cheaper than Europe. The math doesn’t hold up here. And I’m guessing we drive longer distances as well. Range can be a huge factor when deciding between the two.
On the other hand, if you drive your car a lot more, the. The relative cost of fuel makes EVs more economical, whether it balances out depends on your personal usage.
Great video! Here's what gets me though. When people use the term "Cheap" when the correct term should be "Less expensive". In my warped business mind - Cheap describes quality, not quantity.
@@Robert-cu9bm Quality is such a bad term to describe reliability. Quality I think would be the whole package. Something could be made from many high quality parts, but assume the engine is bad, is the rest of the car low quality, I suggest no. "Quality is not a singular measure of reliability"
I take this comparison with a pinch of salt. I owned the DS3 E-Tense for a year, did 20k mikes and spent my life parked up at chargers paying minimum of 20p, and thats is the chargers were working. As for the range in the winter you will be lucky to get 120 miles at motorway speeds. A petrol car IS cheaper to run (diesel even cheaper) unless you can charge your EV at home.. No, the cost of electricity has shot up! And I see there was no mention of depreciation. My E-Tense cost £36k new, but was sold on for 24k 10 months later (motability). And remember, you won't even get 120 miles range because at 100 miles you need to start looking for a charger that works. Then you can only rapid charge to around 88% then the speed drops suddenly so it will take nearly an hour to charge the last 12%.
My i3s has battery temperature management as standard so at 11kwh AC there is no slowing down until 95% and only silly to wait for the last 5 miles or so. At 50kwh rapid it tapers off gradually at 92% and doesn’t slow considerably until the last 10 miles. I agree that some EVs do as you say but my model certainly doesn’t. Oh I can’t charge at home but I get equivalent to 138 mpg comparison it would be much higher if I could. So I’m sorry but Petrol and diesel are more expensive as is servicing and repairs. The only thing that is more expensive on an EV is tyres.
@@garrycroft4215 At say 35p per KW it would cost me £17.50 to charge the 50kWh battery of my DS3. If I could get the full 20 stated miles then it would be costing me 8.75p per mile. As I only get around 120 miles in winter on motorways the cost per mile is 14p per mile. My diesel car costs £12.03p to do 120 miles so I save £5.47 every 120 miles. I also don't have to park up and charge for an hour or more. I will go back to electric eventually, just not the PDA group of cars.
@@flaxvert I wouldn’t pay 35p kwh I pay 23p-28p or twice a year road trips on motorways is 30p when I really have to but most of the time 0p at supermarkets.
@@flaxvert if I were to pay 28p all the time and my car does 4 miles per kWh 5 in summer 3 in winter. That’s only 7p per mile and because I only do 8,500 miles a year. A 100 mile charge takes 35 minutes max. In reality I don’t pay even half of the 7p per mile because I lunch at retail parks and use Tesco, Aldi, Lidl etc for free. Even then my average daily mileage of 22 miles still only takes 30 minutes on an 11kwh AC chargers.
One battery replacement down the road will alter those numbers quite a bit. Not to mention the cost of electrical parts failing as well. If you want to try an interesting comparison calculate the actual costs over the life span of the vehicles.
In the summer I had to pass 3 service stations on the M1 because they were full. Even if there is a charging point at every single parking space, then every car is going to need to be park for at least 20mins to recharge, and do that two or three times between London and Newcastle - motorway service stations will need to be the size of small villages!
With a modern long range EV (Tesla Model 3) London to Newcastle currently requires an 8 minute charge at the Grantham supercharger where there at 16 150kW charger stalls. With charging speeds and quantity of chargers increasing all the time this shouldn't be a concern.
In the summer you couldn't even get onto the forecourts round here to get petrol. Didn't bother me one bit as my car left the drive with a nice charge every day. The average UK mileage is 7k or so. Most people will rarely need to charge away from home - it's a completely different scenario to petrol cars always having yo use filling stations. 🙂
@@xkitejunkie yeah but not everyone can a afford a Tesla. And I am not only talking about money, I don't like the model 3 and I couldn't live with one: no freaking hatchback!
This is all prior to electricity rising by an average of 50% from April 2022, it already Increased by this much at the end of last year. Not to mention range etc. cost is important , but so is convenience.
Don't forget about the majority of people that cannot charge at home and the taxes that are going to be added (there is no way that the gouvernment is losing money on the long run)
The cheap electricity tariff now( in 2021) will not remain cheap once more than half of all drivers switch to electric. Governments all find ways to screw the motorist.
Cost per mile driving/tax scheme is the only real option! Electricity is used for many things other than driving and many will be using solar soon anyway so would be basically free An annual charge added to your insurance where you declare your last years mileage and that’s factored into your renewal is the easiest and cheapest thing to implement
Also don’t forget the petrol Corsa in the test was ‘elite’ spec whereas the electric one was the ‘Sri’. A Corsa e in ‘elite’ spec costs over £31k, so the price gulf is even larger.
And the price of charging away from home is around 75p per kh. So all those numbers were incomplete. They've done this time and again on 5th gear. They never take in toaccount motoway driving/recharging. Quing to recharge can take an hour, then recharging itself is time consuming. Electric? Ha I'd rather wait to see if Toyota can make a go with it's hydrogen fuel cell cars
The cheapest energy deal I can find is £0.14/kWh in off peak period, which is nearly 3 times higher than the one used in the calculation……and price of both electricity and petrol are going crazy now……I’m not sure which has a higher rate of increase though
Well I compared my Astra GTC to a new electric. GTC does like 36mpg, works out around 18p per mile at the time of writing. Even at 4miles/kwh, Electric at 14p/kwh means you're paying 3.5p per mile on electric. So the difference per mile is 14.5p per mile electric vs petrol. If the difference between petrol and electric versions are £10,000, then just in mileage you'll need to be doing around 77,000 miles to make up the difference. However, if the difference is lower then you can do less mileage to make up the difference. If you then consider the other running costs like servicing and tax, then it will probably take less miles to make the difference. I think, based on just money alone, electric will probably cost the same over lifetime because the cars are more expensive, but i think you get a lot more value for money in terms of features, and things are less likely to go wrong.
Thanks guys, this saves me from attempting to crunch those figures myself. It's a fairly good comparison BUT it all depends on what the government intend to do with regard to new EV charging points - given that by law they must now be separately metered from your regular domestic supply. Thus, at the flick of a switch you could be paying considerably more for your recharge in order for the government to recoup the tax losses as consumption of regular fuels falls. 🤔Let's not forget, our wonderful, democratically-elected government (of any flavour) do not actually have our best interests at heart and haven't for many years 😉
If this is a concern in the future. Just plug your car into a regular outlet. Even at 10A this may be more than enough your daily milage. You can also plug into a regular 16A or 32A commando socket with the appropriate adapters. Not to mention you can generate your own with solar. The main this is you have options. You don't have options with petrol or diesel, you have to pay the price your local filling station is charging.
@@PhilipBallGarrycan you tho? Can you get it at home, at work or a friend's house? Can you generate it yourself? Just look around the room you are in now. Electricity it literally available everywhere.
One issue I haven’t heard discussed much is tyres. EVs weigh more; so doesn’t that mean they wear tyres in fewer miles? So doesn’t that mean their tyre cost is higher? It may not be decisive but is it material?
The weight in an EV is balanced out through the entire chassis better than an Ice vehicle so overall tire wear is no worse than a diesel car tho obviously the ridiculous amount of torque from standstill could potentially destroy tires if you so choose.
Tyres for EVs are designed specifically to account for the mass. Even if the weight does increase wear somewhat, the fact that EVs can react to wheel slip and mitigate it, in a fraction of the time it takes an ice car, leads to less tyre wear along with improved traction.
@@Stewiedude1 that's what I thought however my E-Primacy are some of the lightest tyres on the road and actually have less overall mass than ICE specific tyres, as there's less rolling resistance and less unsprung mass it has had an incredible effect on my miles per kwh and gives faster acceleration, faster braking and better handling overall. I just hope they last more than 10k miles unlike my ps4 on my old golf lol.
Quite the opposite, it’s a well established fact that ICE cars with automatic gearboxes get far more miles out of their tyres than manual ones. This is due to a large part of the wear occurring during gear shifts when there is a small amount of slip when the clutch is engaged during gear changes. As EVs are essentially automatic they get the benefit of smoother acceleration making their tyres last longer. Also as a good chunk of their deceleration is done using regenerative braking and not friction brakes the discs and pads will last longer as well.
Glad to see you focus on home charging - which WhatCar ignored in their EV vs ICE video a few weeks ago - but most people go on longer trips now and then. Visits to family around the country, holidays abroad - you're reliant on fast chargers en route, which currently cost up to €0.89 / kwh. It might not push you over that £50 a month but it will eat into it.
Those price comparisons were so heavily biased to the EV. You took the highest spec petrol corsa and compared it to the lowest spec ev. At the low end you can get a petrol 1 brand new for 16k. For a ev 1 with the most, but not even near the same, range you're talking 30k plus
Base model will have a dire spec not even comparable. To be fair they should have used a model with similar spec and perfor.ance it would ve even worse for the Internal Combustion Engine car. They didn't factor the better depreciation of electric, if customers have solar, or show the total price with the cheaper tariff.
@@markf1mark I've actually driven a base spec 2020 corsa and while I wouldn't call it luxurious, it's not bare and at the end of the day this comparison was solely about cost. Realistically if you can afford solar panels at home and have a drive way you're not going to be buying a corsa anyway 😂
Last year I tested model 3 and I made a quick calculation and went and bought diesel. Way cheaper than the EV. 70£ now 90£ for 75 litres of fuel per month with 70£ insurance and 20 road tax. So 180£ per month vs 1000 £ for the EV BUT BUT is cheap to charge.
Here in sunny California, I enjoy driving all over in my base 2021 Model 3 SR+. The other day, after charging overnight to 100%, I drove 286 miles. I had one 15 minute SuperCharger session (while I had a snack and a walkabout). Total cost for the energy: $13.00. Not including my snack! In 13 months, I’ve driven ~14,500 miles (approx 1,100 mi/month), using ~3,400 kWh. At home, I pay $0.092 per kWh for off peak TOU, with an EV discount. 3,400 x $0.092 = $312.00. For 13 months and 14,500 miles of of driving. 14,500/28 mpg = 517 gallons of gas, and 517 x $5/gal = $2,585.00.
With current fuel and electricity cost your overall saving would be less than a £1000, based on current fuel 150p and electric 40p (no cheap tariffs are available). Don’t forget to budget £500 to install a charger. So for a car with half the range of a Petrol you can save £500.
Who on earth is paying 40p? You're getting ripped off mate. I pay 15p during the day and 5p overnight when I charge. Making my savings substantially larger. Yes it has half the range but the average round trip UK commute is only 23 miles with only 14% of people going over 42. Not really an issue is it.
You didn’t mention the cost of putting in an home charger,that could add £500 plus, depending which charger you get, you don’t have to install a petrol station for the ICE car 😁
You don't have to install one for an EV either. The adapter that comes with the car is good enough to charge it overnight in 8 hour's Try filling petrol at home
NO Road tax now is NEVER likely to last. I suspect something more akin to annual charge based on the mileage each MOT and you can bet it'll be used as now to bolster all other HMG "schemes".
@@robsmall6466 there won't be an electric fuel duty on home charging, it's just a plug socket at the end of the day. However they could conceivably add a tax to public rapid charging.
@@xkitejunkie Wouldn't surprise me if they introduced some form of charge. The government isn't going to take kindly to the reduced income. Unfortunately they will find a way
So get in quick while you can still get the advantage ;-) BTW - if the Government want to encorage people into EV's you think they won't increase tariffs on i.c.e vehicles to make sure the running cost advantage stay with EV's?
@@robsmall6466 the cost of operating the roads isn't going to change regardless of what powers the vehicles that use it. Like you say the cost has to be recovered some how in some tax just that's just life. But the difference with electricity is you can generate it yourself or like I say just use any old plug socket so actual fuel cost is far less. (Edit typo fat fingers ;-)
A lot of these cost are very local, this week here in Sweden even the pc media had to admit that an electric car cost more then the petrol version. And you forgot to count in the loss in battery capacity when temp drop in the winter. And if you own the car for longer you might have to pay for the change of batteries and that busts the whole budget for the electric car. There is a lot more to count in but lets just say that electric will most likely cost a lot more then you think.
You dont need to account for battery loss as it is very minimal, and not your car as its a lease, the lower efficency in winter is offset by better efficency in summer
@@domtdoodar99 Not up here in the north, in our colder climate the electric cars can loose up to 50% of there range. Been proven this week actually as people have left there cars on the road in the snowstorms.
@@domtdoodar99 my 5 1/2 year old electric car has lost 2 battery bars in 25000 miles with low rapid charger use, equivalent to a 20% range loss, is this insignificant ?
This is waaaay too one sided… might be cheaper, but when will you cover longer journeys with the electric Corsa, like you would with the petrol car( in case you would need to?)…
The rapid charger infrastructure for none tesla cars is an absolute nightmare and has been since I got my electric car 5 1/2 years ago. Not only that, it is getting worse, with more people getting electric cars without an an equivalent increase in rapid charging capacity. I have given up long distance journeys in my electric car and use my other diesel car every long journey i do now. It is generally twice as fast, direct and with zero charger anxiety.
For most people, they don’t make tons and tons of long journeys that would require a recharge. My wife has had her Zoe for just over a year and never once needed to use public charging. It’s range in winter is still around 180 miles, which is more than enough for any return journey she’s needed to make in that time. If she had to make 3-4 journeys per year that required public charging, the cost differential overall wouldn’t be very much. If you’re the kind of person who regularly drives hundreds of miles in a day, then yes an EV would be more expensive, but you wouldn’t be considering it anyway.
@@stevezodiac491 Agree, rented a EV absolute nightmare charging. Rare a fast charger worked. And if it did you had to watch it to make sure it didn't randomly turn off
My 2016 Nissan leaf is 5 1/2 years old, with only 25000 miles on the clock. It has lost 2 battery bars out of 12. This equates to about a 20 % reduction in range from new - not good
@@stevezodiac491 To be fair, the Leaf is a little notorious for having a crap battery so that should be an extreme example. I've only had hybrids but sold mine last year at 8 years old and it was holding 98% charge. That said, I replaced it with a previous-gen Porsche which beats the Corsa EV very comfortably in terms of overall costs of ownership, so there's that...
Sure the Perceived price will drop massively due to misinformation like that. Depreciation is a PERCIEVED market price and is very loosely related to vehicle health. Up to a Decade Old BEV should have a good battery with vast majority of it's range. Problem is beyond 15 years where it become an problematic and expensive. This sadly has not changed much since the NiMH EVs of the 1990s. The max possible lifespan is still only just 20 years.
@@Neojhun They also base a lot on minimum lifespan so will say "it'll last 10 years" which means "at least". Most will last beyond the practical lifespan of the car anyway, I think that's what's important. It is a legitimate reliablity concern though, anyone buying a 10+ year old BEV should at least get a battery health check done.
to be fair, you have to take the duty off the fuel. cos once we go all electric, that big black hole will have to be filled by electricity tax. Also at what age does the battery need changed?
They are comparing the costs today over the next 4 years. Indeed the cost of running the road network will still need to be covered but will most likely be covered in the future by road tax rather than fuel duty due to the fact that you can charge from a regular plug socket or generate your own with solar. Properly thermal managed batteries are regularly seeing 150k to 200k miles of use. Usually outlasting the car. Certainly will with a Corsa anyway ;-)
I'm seeing people with 6 year old cars with 12% battery degradation (BMW i3) but they degrade quickly in the first year or two then slower and slower over time. By the time it's 10 years old it will probably still have more than 80% of battery capacity left. The worst ones for battery degradation are the vehicles that do not actively cool their batteries (Nissan Leaf) and live in a hot area. The rest are fine.
The PCP prices also make no sense. Most people who buy corsas won't put down down more than 1k so the more expensive ev is going to have a larger interest rate. Going off Autotrader the lowest pcp for a cosa e is just over 400pm and the petrol is only 210pm (same deposit same dealer). Quite a bit different to what you got 🤷🏽♂️
The cheapest ICE Corsa is 10 grand cheaper than the EV version. The EV version only able to do 150 miles max at 70 mph so only a second car role. Most average people don't spend 25k on a school run second car.
I think one underlying issue is once the battery packs start to degrade, they’re not cheap to replace and then we must also factor in environmental costs of mining the lithium and so on. At one point a “normal” vehicle is less damaging for most of it’s service life. Has that now reversed?
WE have been mining for decades, suddenly people take issue. also battery material can and are being recycled, creating a circular economy. Something impossible with fossil fuels. There are no perfect answers just better ones. EV's are simply the better option.
Interesting, but a little biased towards the electric car. They assumed fairly cheap electricity, no extra tyre wear and the government actually keeping their promises as regards to tax and purchasing incentives. Ever get the feeling that we're being shoehorned into going 'green'? I've done some very crude and quick calculations and reckon it to be about the same. Not worth the range anxiety (especially in the cold ATM, and if you want to keep the car after the PCP is up then you could be lumbered with a dud battery!
Maybe they should factor in the odd long journey and the cost of using public charging. Not a massive increase in cost but certainly a more realistic one if people wish to move over to electric. Road tax for EVs won't be free forever once a proportion have switched to them as its unsustainable. More and more towns/cities are also considering charging fossil fuel vehicles when entering to help out Amazon some more as well.
@@stevecade857 exactly, we bought a used Suzuki Swift diesel (here in the UK) for my daughter a few years back. Now when the car was new the road tax was around £60 per year, by the time she got it £135 was payable. Same car but the rules had changed, because the government can do that whenever they see fit to. That's why I never set too much in store by way of road tax figures when deciding what car to buy, it means very little.
Do people do no research at all before they spout nonsense - yes electric prices will increase but so will petrol/diesel and at a higher rate so it will still be cheaper to drive an ev. where do you get this "dud battery" usually an 8 year warranty on battery.look on autotrader hundreds of cars that are 10+ years old with 70k+ miles that are still fine. sick of hearing the same old whining from fools you research nothing but know everything
@@pokerman111111111111 according to adverts for used cars (whatever their drivetrain) nearly all of them are 'fine'. Well they would be wouldn't they? We're just expressing our concerns and suspicions, at the moment this is all hypothetical. I'm not about to buy an EV, for myself the technology and moreover the infrastructure isn't developed anywhere near enough at the moment. Add to that the risk of fire and therefore insurance rates is a worry is another. Perhaps you mistook these comments to mean that I'll never ever consider buying one, perhaps I will, but it'll be quite awhile yet. Unless my circumstances change of course. Think of VCRs, there was no way I was going to buy one until the technology was proven, cassettes were readily available, and the price had come down to more reasonable levels. I preferred to wait and be patient and allowed others to bear the costs, that's my call.
@@pokerman111111111111 Research on government whims is impossible. It's just speculation until it happens. Just this month overnight the grant for EVs dropped from £2500 to £1500 and the price cap for the eligibility dropped from £35k to £32k. You can argue it was always going to be the case eventually but without warning you can't research and you just don't know. For months now the pay per mile tax has been bandied about but nobody knows who it will affect. Over 20k miles per year? Over 10k miles per year? When? We know it will come as the government can't afford to lose all that lovely fuel duty. Oh, just today I read the government have u turned on requiring businesses with more than 20 parking spaces to provide charging points. Research my ass. Broken promises more like.
It's crazy that the UK avg mileage is half that of the US. But I guess the cost of gas is considerably higher. It's pretty silly that you quote MPG, but then give cost in liters!
We are a much smaller nation too with supermarkets and local amenities within 2 - 10 miles of every town. I remember having to travel almost double or triple that in California and Washington state just to reach the nearest supermarket. In the UK it is possible to daily shop if work and family doesn't get in the way.
@@EinkOLED Egads! Where in California did you live?! I live in Sacramento (metro population >1 million), and within 1 mile I have a Whole Foods Market, and a Raley’s (large, excellent locally owned supermarket chain). Two miles the other way is a Trader Joe’s. Also within a 1/2 mile is a Costco and a Win-Co discount supermarket. But I’m glad you’ve got it better now. We loved our trip to London in February 2020, and look forward to returning. The grocery stores we shopped at there were very nice!
@@AdrianMcDaid That’s providing you’re lucky enough to have a private driveway with a suitable place for an EV charger/wall-box. What about terraces streets with no off-street parking and no guarantee you can park outside your own home. Charging would more than likely have to be done at a public charger which would cost a lot more and probably narrow the savings to a point where an internal combustion vehicle is a more logical option.
@@m44kts if you don't have the option to charge your car at home or at work at least then don't bother and just get the petrol version, time is valuable and even an EV enthusiast like me wouldn't go for one if it is gonna be wasting my time. But the argument here is if you have that privilege you could be saving so much money by signing up for cheap EV charging rate plans from Octopus in the UK as I have heard. ( an not from the UK)
Since they are comparing the cost for someone who has off street parking this comes out in favour of the EV since it takes seconds to plug in at home and then rarely, if ever, needs to stop to recharge on a journey. So 99% of the refueling is done without wasting any of your time at all. Whereas every single time the petrol needs Refueling you have to stop and take 5-10 minutes pumping the petrol.
That Corsa petrol can do way more than 34mpg and the electric can use way more than you said lol; also they forgot the 5000£ price difference in the end lol.
@Lacey Cook True that battery replacement should be considered. However there's no need to do so in even 6 or so years because most batteries in EVs have 7 years warranty. To top that off our battery have 2% - 3% state of health degradation after 2 years of ownership. This means it'll take very long to get to even 80% of SOH.
If you do lots of short commutes that have lots of congestions and frequent stops at intersections, EVs are in no doubt cheaper to run, a lot cheaper to run. Running any I.C.E. at idle cost bucket loads more compared to EVs. I'm not so much for EVs but I do however go through lots of stop and go scenarios which normally leads to waste of petrol and brakes. EVs, definitely not as much. When accelerating from 0 mph/kmh, even a Kei car uses bucket loads of petrol to get going where you'll use the equivalent of a drop in EVs. Cost of running EVs can offset the initial purchase cost but that really depends on how you use your car. For lots of short commutes with congestions, EVs are definitely to go for.
Having owned an EV for the past two years I can tell you that this comparison doesn't include the cost of installing a home charger, the AC to DC conversion loss and the fact that you will never come close to achieving the advertised Kwh / mile during colder months due to the need to heat your car using electricity. The increase in electricity consumption in winter months is significant. Also, the electric cars are heavier and, in my experience, eat through tires faster. I was very surprised when I needed to replace tires after 25 thousand miles. It would be more interesting to see an actual comparison of cost of ownership rather than an estimate that leaves many variables out.
On the flip side tho the electric tariff he is referring to is octopus EV tariff, which is 5p per kWh between 12.30am and 4.30am so probably wouldn’t even fully charge the car.
@@Theocurrie It's very rare that you'll need to do a full charge though. Most of the time I plug mine in when it gets to around 50-60% full so all home charging is done at the cheap rate.
You can save £600 a year and have the hassle of charging, finding an available charger, waiting for one to come free, downloading many apps, having to get charge cards, hoping sometimes you can get home
Did anyone else watch the full programme? Shall we say the lack of enthusiasm was quite clear from certain presenters. Whilst others were just going through the "sales" motions
One problem that concerns me with electric cars is that they loose range when its cold , in Scotland sometimes cars get stranded . I carry petrol in the boot in case this happens . I would freeze or break down completely if stuck on A roads or Motorways in Snow . For some people unless someone solves that problem Diesel cars make more sense .
@Christine Ayres Norway is considerably colder, yet they have the highest EV uptake in the world right now. Cold weather in the UK is really not a big issue
@@Robert-cu9bm if you are referring to the government grant, this was reduced earlier in the year and also only applies to cars under £35k. The Tesla model 3 was the best selling car in the UK for a number of months this year while not being eligible for the grant. So yes, people will buy without incentives because they are better.
@Christine Ayres nobody's asking you to scrap your car. You just won't be able to buy a new fossil fuel car. Run yours into the ground if you want to but EVs will replace them.
What about when not charging at home. I’m sure there are a fair few people who would have to charge at a public charger? There’s also the fact we’ve gone for the cheapest electric Corsa and the most expensive petrol model.
Other factors to consider - Time wasted to charge (long range travels are challenging) plus value of an electric car after 7-8 years when the batteries are at the end of their life..
There are Tesla model s with 8 years of running time and barely any battery degradation. The company has been around long enough for you to just look into this....
Myth - batteries at end of life at 7-8 years. Tesla has posted data about their batteries with 200,000 miles on then have only lost 10% of its capability
And this is not even considering depreciation and resale value. EVs have significantly less depreciation and significantly higher resale value. When you add that it's a hands down non comparison. I'm sure especially in European countries where internal combustion (ICE) vehicles are going to be straight out banned, the difference will be even higher. I believe London will completely ban ICE vehicles in some years and there is already a pretty big tax to enter London with a gas car i think.
Depends where you live. There is still a massive cost differance for a similar class car that is never overcome in the life of the vehicle. E.g Kona at $80k vs Kamiq MC at $43k. Most new ICE cars here come with free service plans for the first 5 years too. The difference is even more apparent once road user charges that EVs will pay in my country from 2023 are added then theres the inconvenience factor that electric has with range and time to charge too.
That £50 saving per month soon wiped out using charging stations if you need to. Just hype to promote EV’s. They have not taken all factors into consideration.
It all depends on how many miles you do, how long you keep the car for and how long the battery lasts for if you do decide to keep an electric car for long term. My leaf has lost 2 battery bars out of 12 after 5 1/2 years and only 25000 miles, I also have a 17 year old Mazda MX5 with full range available that still that works perfectly ?
Battery tech and battery management systems have come along way from the first generation Leaf. Tesla's typically are getting well over 200,000 miles. Their new 4680 cell, said to be good for around 1 million.
What do you mean ‘full range available’? Virtually guarantee that a 17 year old car is going to be a lot less fuel efficient than it was when new, and since the petrol tank won’t have grown, logically it must also lose some range.
@@ollyrukes if a car is serviced and maintained it does not lose mpg efficiency that is an old wives tale, i owned a diesel tdi golf that was 14 years old some moons ago and with 185000 miles i was still getting 55 mpg which was no worse then what it gave me at 60,000 miles, my modern golf R that is now 4 years old has given me 46 mpg before on a run which is shocking seeing as vw who we all know like to tell a thib or two advertise it as 40 mpg.
The Leaf was a 1st generation EV with no battery conditioning or heat pump. EV's have already come a long way since then and battery degradation is less significant. Great that you're an early adopter. Well done.
@@daydreamer8373 their new 4680 cell, that doesn't exist yet. But I agree leaf batteries were bad at degradation. Newer batteries all seem to fare better but time will tell.
What about the cost of installing an EV charger? if you have a separate garage and need a new supply this could costs thousands plus the standing charge for that extra supply.. Also what about the need to charge while out and about on fast chargers? Then you pay way more for the electricity... Factor in those costs and its not so clear, you could also factor in the cost of your time, if I am working for myself and charging say £40 an hour, and it takes me 1.5hrs to charge at a fast charger to get home compared to just 2mins at a petrol station then thats an additional cost.. I don't think its as simple as they have made out..
I'll wait for solid state batteries to become available. Lithium-ion batteries are just too limited in their capability. And the infrastructure is not ready for non home owners to own one anyway. Still my Mazda MX-5 ND is gonna stay with me, it's probably the last one for a good while.
7,500 miles per year? That seems extremely low but I guess people are working from home now. Plus the only time the initial cost would be a big issue would be cash purchase, I don’t think people on PCP will be as affected by the extra spread out cost
It is very clear that when comparing these two the EV version is much cheaper to run. However you do lose some capability because of its shorter range (209 WLTP), and long recharge times. If the capabilities of the EV Corsa are sufficient for your needs it makes a lot of sense, however if you drive long distances, or don't have somewhere to charge it, it's maybe a large burden or unfeasible to switch to an EV.
The report was a biassed hypothetical. In many countries an EV derived from an ICE platform carries a 70% premium. Eg Kona Elite ICE v Kona Elite EV in Australia. Now Elon Musk is quoted as saying he thinks all vehicle manufacturers should be self supporting and receive no subsidies. I agree. That report quoted fuel prices and electricity prices which are not medium ones. ULP in Australia is currently $1.70 per litre and electricity $0.50 per kWh. The Kona in real world driving will cost 13c per km for ULP or 8c for Elec. The purchase price difference is $30k. So borrowing that amount assuming you can only afford the ICE will cost $20 per week interest only. Both versions will lose 40% of their value over 5 years. Driving 12000km a year: 5 year cost differences. EV $5000 interest on price difference EV ($3000) saving on running energy cost EV $15000 extra depreciation EV $2000 extra insurance premiums EV ($4000) servicing costs saved Therefore EV will cost $15000 more or $3000 per year than the ULP.
@@waynehobbs5175 you are right this report only applies to British drivers who can get the lowest electricity tariff. That is why I said "It is very clear that when comparing these two the EV version is much cheaper to run." This EV would not work for my use case, nor do I pay as much in fuel here in America. Where I live it would take me about 8 years 150,000 miles before the cost of a new EV becomes cheaper than the cost of a ICE vehicle (not counting incentives). I'm not trying to say that everyone should buy an EV, or that EVs will be cheaper for everyone. My goal was simply to say that in this case, if this EV fits your needs, it would be slightly cheaper to run than the compared gasoline car.
EXACTLY - for 90% of people, doing 90% of their journeys they are fine - if one person in 100 does 50,000 miles a year the dont get one (unless its a tesla)
@@pokerman111111111111 a petrol car will suit 100% of users 100% of the time and be cheaper to own and operate over the 5 years average ownership. EVS are ULP plus 50% to buy.
.... well.... those figures didn't age well... 3 months and fuel doubled in price! .... How about pricing this again today... and maybe add another 50% on fuel costs as good contingency
How long are the warranties on most EV's, what does it cover, and what are the costs of batteries and electric motors if they fail outside the warranty? I think you'll find it becomes very expensive in comparison.
You’re not selling it, Rory. EVs are soulless appliances with all the fun removed. Then there’s the charging network. Travel long distances and electricity is more expensive than petrol, and that’s IF the chargers are working which they often aren’t. EVs are great for those with off-street parking who don’t do road trips, but for the rest of us the infrastructure will have to get a lot better first.
What are the cost of charging the car when not at home, not everyone is able to use their home electricity to charge the car? & you will need to use charging stations when travelling distances
Depends where you charge, if you have free charging at your work place, at the supermarket or at a place you frequent, then even better than charging at home. The electric highway, which is currently been taken over by Gridserve (check their plans for the electric forecourts), charge 30p per kilowatt and with the average EV getting 3 miles per kilowatt (A lot do better), thats 10p per mile. Average cost for an ICE car is 13p per mile, so the EV is cheaper. These tests for electric cars are done for people who have the ability to buy them now, which isn't everybody. You make the assumption that by 2035 when a ban on new fossil fuel cars comes in that the charging infrastructure will be the same as is now, it wont. If you cant fit an EV into your life right now there is another 13 years to get things in place so you can. Most EV's in a few years will easily be able to cover the distances that people travel even when on a long journey with 68% of those currently having off street parking to charge at home (this percentage will increase with new homes coming with charges as standard by law) so wont need the chargers on the journey. www.racfoundation.org/media-centre/cars-parked-23-hours-a-day As the EV market becomes more popular the money spent on battery technology and efficiency will improve and with mass uptake the purchase cost will also come down. A rapid charger company isn't going to install and spend the money on 30 rapid chargers at a location if 70% of the time they sit unused not making money, so with more EV uptake comes more chargers.
Since buying my EV, I can honestly say I have spent less time charging, than have spent filling up with petrol. Most the time, I simply plug in at night and go to sleep.
Did anyone think that come nearer to 2030 which is only 7.5 years away, a used petrol car will be worth peanuts and although a used electric car may have outdated tech, it will still hold it's value more when people only want electric cars. Norway has proven this as 81% of cars there are electric and now their petrol and diesel cars have fuel anxiety because there are no gas stations around!
I'd quite like to have an electric car as a daily driver. It does make a lot of sense given all the challenges we face these days. However, to me, electric cars will always be regarded as cars that just "make sense". They have been built to solve the problems we are facing. Whereas cars like an amg c63, m4, GTI, porsches etc etc are built to be bonkers, thrilling and dream cars. Cars you want to drive in the Weekend. I dont think these electric cars, no matter how fast they might be will ever be cars for the enthusiast. Great for saving tax and driving around in London without congestion charges though.
5p a kWh. Not any more. Cost should be around 25p per kWh once standing charge is factored in. What about cost of tyres and brakes which should need replacing in 30000 miles EV tyres and brakes will cost more than petrol. Cost of charging point installation to factor in as well makes the petrol version cheaper by a few £100
My 74 mile a day commute did cost me £150 a month in my 320D that could do upto 900 miles per tank, the same commute now costs me about £15 a month in my ev. As for tyres the weight distribution within an EV is actually very well balanced only the torque can harm the tyres much like a diesel car however as its a leaf there is no problem lol, I've just replaced mine and got 4 Michelin E-Primacy 205/55/R16 cost me £208 fitted so £52 a tyre. As for brakes well yes they need replacing due to lack of use ie the rust like a bitch but I bought myself front discs and pads, rear discs and pads and the rear brake shoes that go inside the rear discs!?? All for £114 all blueprint parts they should last at least 3 years, the discs are bloody huge too bigger than you'd think for a leaf lol. My power supply was supposed to be £499 but got it from Octopus for £199 and just got a 32amp commando socket installed for £100. My monthly electric bill has also come down as I now only use the washing machine and tumble dryer, tv, playstation etc in the 5p hours.
A fun and informative video but I am surprised you reckon on 3.8 miles/kWh. The e-Niro is a heavier and more powerful car but our average for the whole of 2021 was 4.2...this was over 12,000 miles. OK, we live in rural France with warmer, longer summers and are mostly driving on empty roads but I would have expected the Corsa e to me more efficient.
@@bid84 see how long it takes to drive 1000 miles in an EV compared to petrol Diesel. See how much a new battery will cost in 8yrs or after few thousand charge cycles.
@@roxieloot Rent a car for long trips, electric as a daily car driving up to a couple of hundred miles makes sense, I have a Nissan Leaf and I’m saving €50 a week on my old dailygolf gti, I also have a 3.0 v6 classic car, best of both worlds. Costs me €200 to tax both, and insurance another €500 a year.
Insurance? Also, this was a WAAAAAY too simplistic analysis of the costings, especially if you leave Europe. Europe thinks they're leading the world on on this stuff but really they're just virtue signalling the world and lecturing us (especially in Australia) when the conditions for owning an electric vs petrol car are SIGNIFICANTLY different. One size does NOT fit all. It's also worth noting that the cost of replacing the batteries at the end of life is VERY high. High enough that it may not be worth replacing them so the car is scrapped. That means it could be that the overall average lifespan of a car is significantly reduced meaning the need for more cars to be produced overall. That's going to use A LOT more energy to manufacture and gather the material required to produce more units per km/mile. I don't think the world has really worked out the pit falls for electric cars vs petrol cars and we definitely have not found solutions worldwide.
@Capt Shiny Yeah it's UK only on RUclips as well 🤦🏻 Maybe if you think this is for the UK only, you should tell Boris to STFU about lecturing and virtue signalling to places like Australia in regard to carbon emissions reduction when he can't even keep the lights on for you lot.
@Capt Shiny No you brought up, "it's only about our country." You specifically said it was a UK show, shown on UK TV. To any normal person, that means it's of no interest to other countries. Like I said, it's on RUclips, which isn't just the UK so funnily enough, they want a bigger audience than just the UK. And you're also wrong about me making it about just me. If you read back through my comments, you'll see that I've used Australia as an example of WHY the position the UK takes (which is virtue signalled everywhere by Boris) is not relevant to other countries and that he (and the EU) should stick their noses somewhere else because quite frankly, Australians are sick if the lecturing from Boris and the EU (and the suggested of export tariffs unless we fall into line) about our climate policies. It's also worth noting that if there are grid problems because of storms or bad weather here in Sydney, we don't have any issues with our majority coal powered grid that alsts longer than 12 hours, even if there is a storm. Funny how reliable power is reliable, regardless of the weather. Can't say the same for the reliability of those pesky renewables can we! 😂
@@richo2501 They don't want to talk about where they get the cobalt for the batteries either. A recent BBC documentary showed the mines in Africa. How local people were exploited. Acid pollution and financial corruption. One of the big instigators. Tesla. In the UK no one wants to talk about the huge numbers that do not have off street parking. The lack of infrastructure. The cost to purchase these cars. How long a battery will last. How the cold, damp and ( where I'm from ) hilly environment will affect things
@@robsmall6466 Yep, totally agree and I'm sure there's even more variables.........the petrol burning engined car has been the individual transportation of people on this planet for the better part of 100 years and they think they can undo that in 20. Good luck with that without making a significant dent in the quality of peoples lives.
Take a deep breath mate ;-) This is a UK TV car show hence the UK prices quoted and the hence the very average Corsa was used not a Commodore :-). Obviously the maths will be different around the world. Just add apply your local costs and use case to see if it suits you.
why are you not comparing the same spec of cars? the elite petrol is the top of the range but the sri electric is middle of the range when you price up spec for spec theres between £9000 to £11,000 difference at the OTR price
You should have compared it to charging purely at a charging station, plus my standard tariff is 21p power kWh and electric costs are rising, as for road tax, it might be free of the car is under £40k, above that figure and it's different then
@@nujjigram you do realise at some point you will get screwed just like people who drive petrol or diesel cars, it's just a matter of time. Once the UK government have sucked enough people in with incentives, then the costs will come.
@@acelectricalsecurity why is that a bad thing? Revenue sources will evolve over time And so will our sources of energy along with our lifestyle habits. Btw, its more likely that the government will end up taxing non renewable sources of energy next, to compensate for loss of gasoline revenue. After which they will levy heavy tax at the buying phase to discourage new vehicle sales after 2050. Everyone will eventually go the path of Netherlands and start cycling to work rather than sitting on their fat butts Pretty sure you will do everything you can to make your country a better place irrespective of how irresponsible the government is.
hydrogen powered cars just seems like a lot of effort and energy to simply store energy in a gas form when you could just use that electricity and put it directly into a battery. The only people Hydogen cars suit are the fossil fuel companies as it keeps their current distribution model.
The few Hydrogen cars available such as Toyota Mirai are also Electric so you are not passing on any "electric stop gap era". Electric cars are coming, the only variable is the source of the electricity to drive them.
Electricity price is going up. Also, how are people who live in terraced houses supposed to charge their car? Have a lead running across the pavement to their house?
You don't factor the price of getting the car repaired (if you can find a garage that fixes electric cars), installing a wall charger, the loss of battery capacity during the life of the car, the ever increasing prices of electricity, the money spent (on food or whatever) when you have to stop your electric car to recharge in the middle of a trip, etc. Very biased pro-electric show, as most of them are. BTW, I own a diesel version of a car which costs 10k less than the electric equivalent. My car has 1000 kms of range, cheap maintenance and a consumption of 5 liters/100km. It's imposible for the electric version to be cheaper on the long run.
Watch Rory’s video on the auto trader channel about the same thing. He is so obviously just a government mouthpiece, how has he infiltrated fifth gear 😭
It amazes me how people can be so blind to what is coming. EV's are only ever going to get cheaper, and ICE cars more expensive. Soon EV's will be a no brainer. Most people simply don't realise it yet.
Would love to see a full cost break down on a pcp deal of a petrol, PHEV and BEV including full details on tax, fuel/electric cost, servicing. This would be great as there are some cars which come in all 3 versions, so do a 150 trip which is 50% motor way and 50% A roads and at the end refill the cars to see the exact costs. That would be super helpful. Happy to drive and do the test if you can get the cars.
I've been charging my EV at home, every day, for the past 5 years with my solar panels and have paid: $0, the entire time. I used to pay: $150/mo. for gasoline, or: $1800/yr., which saved me: $9000 over the past 5-years, and I've spent: $0 on maintenance in that time. Yeah, EV's are way, way cheaper, if charging with solar, and still cheaper if paying for power at a public charging station. And I can smoke ANY gas car off the line. :)
Massive point that's missed is the cost of charging your ev outside of your house...because lets be honest you won't charge at home all the time. And that currently is almost equal to the price of petrol per mile!
So for the occasions that you do charge away from home it's still cheaper than petrol, but to really offset the high initial cost you want to charge as cheaply as possible as much as possible (some chargers are currently free in various supermarkets and shipping centres etc)
@@SeanPowell but Some don't have the space outside their house to charge, others have to travel far enough away to charge, so as much as a cheap charge is there, for a good few of us that won't actually be the case. They always mention cheap electricity but never the high charge a good few of on street chargers cost.
The numbers are promising but in order to make people buy more EVs you need two things to happen: 1. reduce the price gap between EVs and combustion cars 2. make charging points nearly as accessible as petrol station or offer to install charging systems at people's homes. Otherwise I don't see many people changing from the convinient combustion cars to EVs
It really depends on how you can work out whether if EVs are feasible to own. If you do lots of short, local commutes that have lots of stop and go in traffics/intersections EVs are really economical and will more than make up for initial purchase cost. Since EVs have significantly fewer moving parts, servicing is either cheaper or less frequent than I.C.E. . Having said that, there are many to consider. One of them is infrastructure. If you have a home with garage, you can easily charge an EV at home regardless of types of charging. You can even you EV charging cable and plug that in a wall. You can charge every night, a two, or even every week. I only use less than a bar of battery everyday to work. If you live to say in apartments that have either one or no chargers, you probably better off with a hybrid. Even if you live in a street that have one or few charging station(s), chances are that it(they) can be occupied by other EV(s). The only time that pure I.C.E. is really good for is when you do lots of long drives that also require lots of fuel stops. My I.C.E. is therefore saved for my special weekend/holiday drive.
@@t8polestarcyan22 ofcourse for city use EVs are far more superior if like you said you can charge at home overnight, but not everyone has a garage. I live in London where the vast majority park on the streets, if everyone switches to EVs I don’t think we will be able to install chargers for each and every car. This is why I don’t see many people switching anytime soon, for now if you have the money it doesn’t seem like a problem, but I can see it becoming a problem when the EVs numbers start to increase significantly.
@@virusumf For that hybrids are more suited. You might be lucky to get a e.g. 2nd hand Toyota Aqua / Prius C. Even a 2nd hand Honda Insight can cut your fuel bill. Pure I.C.E. are best suited for long drives. I go EVs not because I like them. I take every opportunity go to EV whenever we can. Like you've said, not everyone can do so due to their infrastructure at their homes. Perhaps I'm one of few who live in home with a garage. It's only a matter of time that car parks in apartments will have charging stations or at least power ports though not so soon I guess. There is a brand new EV you buy for less than a brand new Dacia Sandero but mind you, there're safety concerns. That one is a Wuling Hongguang Mini EV or in parts of Europe it's called... Freze Nikrob/Froggy. Otherwise you'll be a lot better off with so to say a MG ZS EV which has a 5 star Euro NCAP. Basically there are more choices but personally I go for safer models. Too bad manufactures like Tesla and most car companies are setting bad example that you need to spend lots of money to get an EV. Chinese car manufactures have already set an example to the public that you don't need to spend so much to get one. Eventually more EVs will be cheaper so to make every manufactures to bring prices down, I would go for cheapest one yet safe to drive. That will be the MG ZS EV. Otherwise I would've gone for a Toyota Aqua if I can't plug a car.
That's fine if you can charge at home, but if you're on a long journey and have to charge in the services the prices are extortionate for eclectic cars Also things get worse in winter when you have to use the lights, heater and radio when driving for a longer period than the summer and that's going to increase costs even further They just aren't worth it for me and the true overall costs of running an electric car aren't being covered!
Running those systems apart from the heater uses petrol at well anyway. The only cost they missed is the difference in resale value if any. The majority of ev owners already have another non ev in their household that they use for long trips. Furthermore, most owners are charging for free at the car park at work. I would say that if you compared equal specs, then once you’re driving about 10k miles you are certainly better off with an EV if you can charge for free at work.
You need to include a battery pack change after 5-6 years under maintenance cost.... Govt may add in environmental taxes in nextn4-5 years as disposing li-ion battery is hazardous... The math is not as simple as explained.
Yeah I was wondering how much the batteries cost to replace. I know that Teslas need theirs done roughly every 100K miles, and the batteries end up costing more than the car is worth by that time.
Also you need to look at off pipe pollution which electric cars produce which either same or more than petrol/diesel vehicles... Studies are being done on this but the pollution caused by disposing li battery is still not being considered.... Electric as a solution... Dont think it is still very clear..... An automobile body should come up with answers and solutions for this....v
@@Hydraav2 actually every 3 years batteries deteriorate by 8-15% .. And post that every year by 5-8% so even id batteries are made of best of materials still in 5 year batteries will be give u a range of ~20% lower ..... However an ice is likely to be more efficient post 6months upto 10 years... The math becomes even more complicated... Plus to get the best range and efficiency an electric car is to be driven in a very different manner from how and ice is driven....
@@vampire198014 Tesla batteries are good for over 200,00 miles. Their new 4680 cell is said t be good for over 1 million. You are way over exaggerating battery degradation. also nobody is disposing car batteries. Battery recycling is worth billions, Tesla already have a deal in place with Redwood materials to recycle all their batteries, and reuse the material in their battery production.
@@daydreamer8373 Well I don’t know where you got that information, but there has been a huge amount of Teslas needing their batteries replaced not long after 100K. And I haven’t heard of any making 200K on their original battery pack.
Yup. Numbers don’t lie. But, it doesn’t still answer the issue of a higher initial spending for an EV. Other related costs are kinda already sunk cost. Arguably, there may be higher take up rates if the initial expenditure outlay is lower or similar to ICE vehicles. Just imho. :-)
And about the actual energy that goes into the car when charging, compared to what actually goes into the battery (usually 10% to as much as 30 %, depending on car, charger, charging speed, ambient temperature), that actually never see in this type of cost comparisons?
@@Robert-cu9bm so long as you have battery storage you discharge the gathered energy back into the car at night. Payback period for me reduced by 3-4 years since the electricity prices gone up in the last couple months and now looking closer to 7-8 years, only 4 left and the life / warranty on the kit is 20-25 years so…
@@MCSMIK I don't believe that. At the current costs of battery storage payback is unlikely. Let's do some figures, typical cost of a home battery 4k, size is around 13kwh and we'll go with 20p per kWh (so very expensive). If you were to fully charge and discharge that battery every single day(not possible in the UK with solar)... It would take 4yrs to break even. And that's just the cost of the battery, add in solar you have no hope. In real world you'll be lucky to break even before your batteries fail.
There are too many unknown variables to make a solid comparison I believe. Fuel prices are exceptionally high now, these will lower again. Road tax for non-EV’s or hybrids will very likely rise due to governmental regulations, depreciation is also hard to predict for these smaller EV’s as there is little to no history to fall back to, etc etc. Besides cost I believe the driving experience is a relevant decision maker as well and generally EV’s drive great. Especially in this compact class an EV drivetrain makes a car feel much more mature quickly. EV’s are here to stay, it is not a hype.
Do you actual believe fuel prices will drop ? i will bet you a new tesla that in 3/6/12 months they will be higher than they are now. if you want to be held to ransom by some arab nation then crak on.me nah ta
Are you able to do an update with the coming hike on energy prices? I believe the gap will be smaller but would be good to see by how much. Of course if using EV as company car there are some tax benefits.
But what happens after 10 years? The petrol car will still be running (hopefully, but perhaps Vauxhall's are not a great example) after 10 years and will have a second-hand rate higher than an electric because of battery life. Unless the owner has coughed up for a new one .. costing ???? .. the electric range will limit the cars use. And what do we do with the chemicals in those batteries? And are we going to continue to mine great holes in cheap-labour Africa?
Battery tech is improving all the time. Tesla's are good for at least 200,000 miles. Their new 4680 cell good for around 1 million. Charging times are also increasing. Adding 100 miles in a modern EV, is around ten minutes. Batteries are recycled and big business worth billions. And we have been mining for decades, and it has done nowhere near the damage to the environment that the fossil fuel industry has. Cheap Labour in Africa. You mean Cobalt? Funny how you fail to mention, the oil industry has been using Cobalt for Decades. and unlike oil can be recycled.
@@daydreamer8373 let’s face it your obviously a non car guy spouting the comments spitting in peoples faces about the specs teslas have. Teslas where it’s an American soulless car made in California and Europeans don’t want. Dy u know the old jokes the brits used to use against French cars? True brits don’t buy French cars because of the electrics. Today is true Europeans don’t buy teslas and if you do. You’re a sheep
People forget though that not many keep cars for longer periods and the amount of miles and different road types People use play a massive factor in it. I can see an EV making sense in the city for short trips but if like me you do a 50 mile commute around the countryside and do motorway driving on days off then a turbo diesel works best for me.
This may work on a like for like on a small car but what about larger cars? Since this video that 5p has gone up to 7.5p. EV’s when doing over 100 miles a day don’t come out cheaper when all hinges taken into account.
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This is all very well but what about people who have no off street parking. Electric cars are not an option at the moment. My nearest public charging point is 15 miles away and there is only one charger. Meanwhile my 2010 Octavia is costing very little to run in terms of servicing and is doing 58 - 62mpg. Many of us can't afford a PCP deal of £250 plus a month.
Yeah, when you add all these thing under maintenance and fuel you actually realize electric is more for the rich with off street parking and those who can afford pcp deals... Which means common people either use ice or public transport.....
@@vampire198014New cars have always been for the more well off. Common people dare I say like you and me will buy second hand cars like they do now! In a few years you will have the option of getting a secondhand EV or Ice vehicle whichever suits your lifestyle. By the time there are no second hand ice vehicles left the charging infrastructure should be up to par
Surely recycling used cars is way better for the environment than us all buying brand new cars that have a massive carbon footprint through manufacturing and development costs. I'll continue to buy recycled vehicles.
@@bullittuk couldn't agree more. It doesn't matter that I can't afford a new car, electric or otherwise. This is about the decisions of those who can, and what I'll be able to buy in 6 or 7 years time. Then, the lower complexity of an electric car should also mean less money on repairs. Sign me up!
@@andrewsanton4977
To me it would make sense for a diesel Corsa to be scrapped by being sent to a third World Country and scraping 30 and 40 year old diesel cars and vans that highly polute Mumbai . Enabling a payment for a UK car , to go towards a PCP or new vehicle rather than scaping Euro 5 or 6 diesels and crushing them into Cubes , whilst third world taxis etc are held together belching out tonnes of Co 2 .
Fuel in the US is much cheaper than Europe. The math doesn’t hold up here. And I’m guessing we drive longer distances as well. Range can be a huge factor when deciding between the two.
The price of fossil fuels will only go up, and conflict could make it completely unavailable.
You can charge an electric car from your roof.
You mean fuel is more heavily subsidised in the US...
On the other hand, if you drive your car a lot more, the. The relative cost of fuel makes EVs more economical, whether it balances out depends on your personal usage.
@@ollyrukes electrics simply don't have usable range for a lot of people.
@@jools2323 We have oil in Texas.
Great video! Here's what gets me though. When people use the term "Cheap" when the correct term should be "Less expensive". In my warped business mind - Cheap describes quality, not quantity.
Well said. Been something that's bugged me for years too. I also associate 'cheap' with 'costs less and is not good quality'.
Some of the most unreliable cars are expensive ones.
A price is no measure for quality.
@@Robert-cu9bm Quality is such a bad term to describe reliability. Quality I think would be the whole package. Something could be made from many high quality parts, but assume the engine is bad, is the rest of the car low quality, I suggest no. "Quality is not a singular measure of reliability"
LOL Then you've got it wrong LOL there's your anwer.
I take this comparison with a pinch of salt. I owned the DS3 E-Tense for a year, did 20k mikes and spent my life parked up at chargers paying minimum of 20p, and thats is the chargers were working.
As for the range in the winter you will be lucky to get 120 miles at motorway speeds.
A petrol car IS cheaper to run (diesel even cheaper) unless you can charge your EV at home.. No, the cost of electricity has shot up! And I see there was no mention of depreciation. My E-Tense cost £36k new, but was sold on for 24k 10 months later (motability).
And remember, you won't even get 120 miles range because at 100 miles you need to start looking for a charger that works.
Then you can only rapid charge to around 88% then the speed drops suddenly so it will take nearly an hour to charge the last 12%.
High quality post, with real first hand personal experience. Thank you.
My i3s has battery temperature management as standard so at 11kwh AC there is no slowing down until 95% and only silly to wait for the last 5 miles or so. At 50kwh rapid it tapers off gradually at 92% and doesn’t slow considerably until the last 10 miles. I agree that some EVs do as you say but my model certainly doesn’t.
Oh I can’t charge at home but I get equivalent to 138 mpg comparison it would be much higher if I could. So I’m sorry but Petrol and diesel are more expensive as is servicing and repairs. The only thing that is more expensive on an EV is tyres.
@@garrycroft4215 At say 35p per KW it would cost me £17.50 to charge the 50kWh battery of my DS3. If I could get the full 20 stated miles then it would be costing me 8.75p per mile. As I only get around 120 miles in winter on motorways the cost per mile is 14p per mile. My diesel car costs £12.03p to do 120 miles so I save £5.47 every 120 miles. I also don't have to park up and charge for an hour or more. I will go back to electric eventually, just not the PDA group of cars.
@@flaxvert I wouldn’t pay 35p kwh I pay 23p-28p or twice a year road trips on motorways is 30p when I really have to but most of the time 0p at supermarkets.
@@flaxvert if I were to pay 28p all the time and my car does 4 miles per kWh 5 in summer 3 in winter. That’s only 7p per mile and because I only do 8,500 miles a year. A 100 mile charge takes 35 minutes max. In reality I don’t pay even half of the 7p per mile because I lunch at retail parks and use Tesco, Aldi, Lidl etc for free. Even then my average daily mileage of 22 miles still only takes 30 minutes on an 11kwh AC chargers.
One battery replacement down the road will alter those numbers quite a bit. Not to mention the cost of electrical parts failing as well. If you want to try an interesting comparison calculate the actual costs over the life span of the vehicles.
EV Batteries have an 8 year warranty and then you can just swap out the dead cells.
In the summer I had to pass 3 service stations on the M1 because they were full. Even if there is a charging point at every single parking space, then every car is going to need to be park for at least 20mins to recharge, and do that two or three times between London and Newcastle - motorway service stations will need to be the size of small villages!
With a modern long range EV (Tesla Model 3) London to Newcastle currently requires an 8 minute charge at the Grantham supercharger where there at 16 150kW charger stalls.
With charging speeds and quantity of chargers increasing all the time this shouldn't be a concern.
Like Gridserve?
In the summer you couldn't even get onto the forecourts round here to get petrol.
Didn't bother me one bit as my car left the drive with a nice charge every day.
The average UK mileage is 7k or so. Most people will rarely need to charge away from home - it's a completely different scenario to petrol cars always having yo use filling stations. 🙂
@@xkitejunkie
8 mins I call BS.
No EV can charge in 8mins
@@xkitejunkie yeah but not everyone can a afford a Tesla.
And I am not only talking about money, I don't like the model 3 and I couldn't live with one: no freaking hatchback!
This is all prior to electricity rising by an average of 50% from April 2022, it already Increased by this much at the end of last year. Not to mention range etc. cost is important , but so is convenience.
Don't forget about the majority of people that cannot charge at home and the taxes that are going to be added (there is no way that the gouvernment is losing money on the long run)
Petrol costs are also shooting up
The cheap electricity tariff now( in 2021) will not remain cheap once more than half of all drivers switch to electric. Governments all find ways to screw the motorist.
Cost per mile driving/tax scheme is the only real option!
Electricity is used for many things other than driving and many will be using solar soon anyway so would be basically free
An annual charge added to your insurance where you declare your last years mileage and that’s factored into your renewal is the easiest and cheapest thing to implement
Not everyone can charge at home, and the UK is unable to generate enough electricity.
*cough* Conservatives....
Also don’t forget the petrol Corsa in the test was ‘elite’ spec whereas the electric one was the ‘Sri’. A Corsa e in ‘elite’ spec costs over £31k, so the price gulf is even larger.
I mean tbf. They probably based their prices off the same spec car.
dont be a spaz- they used the price of the equivalent car,irrelevant what they actually drove
And the price of charging away from home is around 75p per kh. So all those numbers were incomplete. They've done this time and again on 5th gear. They never take in toaccount motoway driving/recharging. Quing to recharge can take an hour, then recharging itself is time consuming. Electric? Ha I'd rather wait to see if Toyota can make a go with it's hydrogen fuel cell cars
The cheapest energy deal I can find is £0.14/kWh in off peak period, which is
nearly 3 times higher than the one used in the calculation……and price of both electricity and petrol are going crazy now……I’m not sure which has a higher rate of increase though
Well I compared my Astra GTC to a new electric. GTC does like 36mpg, works out around 18p per mile at the time of writing. Even at 4miles/kwh, Electric at 14p/kwh means you're paying 3.5p per mile on electric. So the difference per mile is 14.5p per mile electric vs petrol. If the difference between petrol and electric versions are £10,000, then just in mileage you'll need to be doing around 77,000 miles to make up the difference. However, if the difference is lower then you can do less mileage to make up the difference. If you then consider the other running costs like servicing and tax, then it will probably take less miles to make the difference. I think, based on just money alone, electric will probably cost the same over lifetime because the cars are more expensive, but i think you get a lot more value for money in terms of features, and things are less likely to go wrong.
Thanks guys, this saves me from attempting to crunch those figures myself. It's a fairly good comparison BUT it all depends on what the government intend to do with regard to new EV charging points - given that by law they must now be separately metered from your regular domestic supply. Thus, at the flick of a switch you could be paying considerably more for your recharge in order for the government to recoup the tax losses as consumption of regular fuels falls. 🤔Let's not forget, our wonderful, democratically-elected government (of any flavour) do not actually have our best interests at heart and haven't for many years 😉
Can’t you just plug it to a regular outlet? I don’t think government will check on how you charge your car.
@@Giorg189 Quite true but it's limited to 13 amps. So it'll take a long time. The "proper" charge points provide much higher current. 👍
If this is a concern in the future. Just plug your car into a regular outlet. Even at 10A this may be more than enough your daily milage. You can also plug into a regular 16A or 32A commando socket with the appropriate adapters. Not to mention you can generate your own with solar. The main this is you have options. You don't have options with petrol or diesel, you have to pay the price your local filling station is charging.
@@xkitejunkie But I can get my diesel almost anywhere. 😉
@@PhilipBallGarrycan you tho? Can you get it at home, at work or a friend's house? Can you generate it yourself? Just look around the room you are in now. Electricity it literally available everywhere.
One issue I haven’t heard discussed much is tyres. EVs weigh more; so doesn’t that mean they wear tyres in fewer miles? So doesn’t that mean their tyre cost is higher? It may not be decisive but is it material?
The weight in an EV is balanced out through the entire chassis better than an Ice vehicle so overall tire wear is no worse than a diesel car tho obviously the ridiculous amount of torque from standstill could potentially destroy tires if you so choose.
Tyres for EVs are designed specifically to account for the mass.
Even if the weight does increase wear somewhat, the fact that EVs can react to wheel slip and mitigate it, in a fraction of the time it takes an ice car, leads to less tyre wear along with improved traction.
@@Stewiedude1 that's what I thought however my E-Primacy are some of the lightest tyres on the road and actually have less overall mass than ICE specific tyres, as there's less rolling resistance and less unsprung mass it has had an incredible effect on my miles per kwh and gives faster acceleration, faster braking and better handling overall. I just hope they last more than 10k miles unlike my ps4 on my old golf lol.
@Capt Shiny only £80, that's nice. Who in the real world thinks that's a good price? Not me that's for sure.
Quite the opposite, it’s a well established fact that ICE cars with automatic gearboxes get far more miles out of their tyres than manual ones. This is due to a large part of the wear occurring during gear shifts when there is a small amount of slip when the clutch is engaged during gear changes. As EVs are essentially automatic they get the benefit of smoother acceleration making their tyres last longer. Also as a good chunk of their deceleration is done using regenerative braking and not friction brakes the discs and pads will last longer as well.
Glad to see you focus on home charging - which WhatCar ignored in their EV vs ICE video a few weeks ago - but most people go on longer trips now and then. Visits to family around the country, holidays abroad - you're reliant on fast chargers en route, which currently cost up to €0.89 / kwh. It might not push you over that £50 a month but it will eat into it.
Those price comparisons were so heavily biased to the EV. You took the highest spec petrol corsa and compared it to the lowest spec ev. At the low end you can get a petrol 1 brand new for 16k. For a ev 1 with the most, but not even near the same, range you're talking 30k plus
Base model will have a dire spec not even comparable. To be fair they should have used a model with similar spec and perfor.ance it would ve even worse for the Internal Combustion Engine car. They didn't factor the better depreciation of electric, if customers have solar, or show the total price with the cheaper tariff.
@@markf1mark I've actually driven a base spec 2020 corsa and while I wouldn't call it luxurious, it's not bare and at the end of the day this comparison was solely about cost. Realistically if you can afford solar panels at home and have a drive way you're not going to be buying a corsa anyway 😂
@@markf1mark
Who's getting 5p per kWh... Every energy company is going bust due to the high prices.
@@Robert-cu9bm exactly
@@Robert-cu9bm most drivers who have an EV. Octopus are still offering it to new customers right now
Maybe I missed the car insurance cost which is always higher in an EV. Add all the costs in including costs relating to non home charging.
Last year I tested model 3 and I made a quick calculation and went and bought diesel. Way cheaper than the EV. 70£ now 90£ for 75 litres of fuel per month with 70£ insurance and 20 road tax. So 180£ per month vs 1000 £ for the EV BUT BUT is cheap to charge.
Here in sunny California, I enjoy driving all over in my base 2021 Model 3 SR+.
The other day, after charging overnight to 100%, I drove 286 miles. I had one 15 minute SuperCharger session (while I had a snack and a walkabout). Total cost for the energy: $13.00. Not including my snack!
In 13 months, I’ve driven ~14,500 miles (approx 1,100 mi/month), using ~3,400 kWh. At home, I pay $0.092 per kWh for off peak TOU, with an EV discount. 3,400 x $0.092 = $312.00. For 13 months and 14,500 miles of of driving.
14,500/28 mpg = 517 gallons of gas, and 517 x $5/gal = $2,585.00.
With current fuel and electricity cost your overall saving would be less than a £1000, based on current fuel 150p and electric 40p (no cheap tariffs are available). Don’t forget to budget £500 to install a charger. So for a car with half the range of a Petrol you can save £500.
40p per unit? I'm price capped at 21p, not sure why you're quoting 40p
Who on earth is paying 40p? You're getting ripped off mate.
I pay 15p during the day and 5p overnight when I charge.
Making my savings substantially larger.
Yes it has half the range but the average round trip UK commute is only 23 miles with only 14% of people going over 42.
Not really an issue is it.
@@Whitecobra08. Agreed mate. 40p is far too much. My current rate with EON is 17.62p/kwh.
The tariff they are referring to is the Octopus Go tariff. It's 5p per kWh for 4hours overnight. It is available.
You didn’t mention the cost of putting in an home charger,that could add £500 plus, depending which charger you get, you don’t have to install a petrol station for the ICE car 😁
You don't have to install one for an EV either.
The adapter that comes with the car is good enough to charge it overnight in 8 hour's
Try filling petrol at home
@@nujjigram lol
NO Road tax now is NEVER likely to last. I suspect something more akin to annual charge based on the mileage each MOT and you can bet it'll be used as now to bolster all other HMG "schemes".
@@Anonymous-ib8so Exactly. Some form of electric fuel duty will be put in place
@@robsmall6466 there won't be an electric fuel duty on home charging, it's just a plug socket at the end of the day. However they could conceivably add a tax to public rapid charging.
@@xkitejunkie Wouldn't surprise me if they introduced some form of charge. The government isn't going to take kindly to the reduced income. Unfortunately they will find a way
So get in quick while you can still get the advantage ;-)
BTW - if the Government want to encorage people into EV's you think they won't increase tariffs on i.c.e vehicles to make sure the running cost advantage stay with EV's?
@@robsmall6466 the cost of operating the roads isn't going to change regardless of what powers the vehicles that use it. Like you say the cost has to be recovered some how in some tax just that's just life. But the difference with electricity is you can generate it yourself or like I say just use any old plug socket so actual fuel cost is far less.
(Edit typo fat fingers ;-)
You do not mention depreciation or how the range will decrease over time.
A lot of these cost are very local, this week here in Sweden even the pc media had to admit that an electric car cost more then the petrol version.
And you forgot to count in the loss in battery capacity when temp drop in the winter. And if you own the car for longer you might have to pay for the change of batteries and that busts the whole budget for the electric car. There is a lot more to count in but lets just say that electric will most likely cost a lot more then you think.
"PC media". OK boomer.
You dont need to account for battery loss as it is very minimal, and not your car as its a lease, the lower efficency in winter is offset by better efficency in summer
@@domtdoodar99 Not up here in the north, in our colder climate the electric cars can loose up to 50% of there range. Been proven this week actually as people have left there cars on the road in the snowstorms.
@@domtdoodar99 my 5 1/2 year old electric car has lost 2 battery bars in 25000 miles with low rapid charger use, equivalent to a 20% range loss, is this insignificant ?
@@NikesZ28 correct, even in NE England cold weather range loss is substantial in our winter, even here.
This is waaaay too one sided… might be cheaper, but when will you cover longer journeys with the electric Corsa, like you would with the petrol car( in case you would need to?)…
The rapid charger infrastructure for none tesla cars is an absolute nightmare and has been since I got my electric car 5 1/2 years ago. Not only that, it is getting worse, with more people getting electric cars without an an equivalent increase in rapid charging capacity. I have given up long distance journeys in my electric car and use my other diesel car every long journey i do now. It is generally twice as fast, direct and with zero charger anxiety.
For most people, they don’t make tons and tons of long journeys that would require a recharge. My wife has had her Zoe for just over a year and never once needed to use public charging. It’s range in winter is still around 180 miles, which is more than enough for any return journey she’s needed to make in that time.
If she had to make 3-4 journeys per year that required public charging, the cost differential overall wouldn’t be very much.
If you’re the kind of person who regularly drives hundreds of miles in a day, then yes an EV would be more expensive, but you wouldn’t be considering it anyway.
@@stevezodiac491
Agree, rented a EV absolute nightmare charging.
Rare a fast charger worked. And if it did you had to watch it to make sure it didn't randomly turn off
The battery's depreciate after time is what you said mate ?
My 2016 Nissan leaf is 5 1/2 years old, with only 25000 miles on the clock. It has lost 2 battery bars out of 12. This equates to about a 20 % reduction in range from new - not good
@@stevezodiac491 To be fair, the Leaf is a little notorious for having a crap battery so that should be an extreme example. I've only had hybrids but sold mine last year at 8 years old and it was holding 98% charge.
That said, I replaced it with a previous-gen Porsche which beats the Corsa EV very comfortably in terms of overall costs of ownership, so there's that...
Sure the Perceived price will drop massively due to misinformation like that. Depreciation is a PERCIEVED market price and is very loosely related to vehicle health. Up to a Decade Old BEV should have a good battery with vast majority of it's range. Problem is beyond 15 years where it become an problematic and expensive. This sadly has not changed much since the NiMH EVs of the 1990s. The max possible lifespan is still only just 20 years.
@@Neojhun They also base a lot on minimum lifespan so will say "it'll last 10 years" which means "at least". Most will last beyond the practical lifespan of the car anyway, I think that's what's important. It is a legitimate reliablity concern though, anyone buying a 10+ year old BEV should at least get a battery health check done.
to be fair, you have to take the duty off the fuel. cos once we go all electric, that big black hole will have to be filled by electricity tax. Also at what age does the battery need changed?
Tesla batteries are good for over 200,000 miles. Their new 4680 cell, supposed to be good for 1 million.
They are comparing the costs today over the next 4 years. Indeed the cost of running the road network will still need to be covered but will most likely be covered in the future by road tax rather than fuel duty due to the fact that you can charge from a regular plug socket or generate your own with solar.
Properly thermal managed batteries are regularly seeing 150k to 200k miles of use. Usually outlasting the car. Certainly will with a Corsa anyway ;-)
I'm seeing people with 6 year old cars with 12% battery degradation (BMW i3) but they degrade quickly in the first year or two then slower and slower over time. By the time it's 10 years old it will probably still have more than 80% of battery capacity left.
The worst ones for battery degradation are the vehicles that do not actively cool their batteries (Nissan Leaf) and live in a hot area. The rest are fine.
The PCP prices also make no sense. Most people who buy corsas won't put down down more than 1k so the more expensive ev is going to have a larger interest rate. Going off Autotrader the lowest pcp for a cosa e is just over 400pm and the petrol is only 210pm (same deposit same dealer). Quite a bit different to what you got 🤷🏽♂️
The cheapest ICE Corsa is 10 grand cheaper than the EV version. The EV version only able to do 150 miles max at 70 mph so only a second car role. Most average people don't spend 25k on a school run second car.
@@davidlewis4399 exactly 👌🏽
I think one underlying issue is once the battery packs start to degrade, they’re not cheap to replace and then we must also factor in environmental costs of mining the lithium and so on. At one point a “normal” vehicle is less damaging for most of it’s service life. Has that now reversed?
because when your petrol engine doesn't hold those 100hp as stated in the manual you will change the engine... sure
WE have been mining for decades, suddenly people take issue. also battery material can and are being recycled, creating a circular economy. Something impossible with fossil fuels. There are no perfect answers just better ones. EV's are simply the better option.
Interesting, but a little biased towards the electric car. They assumed fairly cheap electricity, no extra tyre wear and the government actually keeping their promises as regards to tax and purchasing incentives. Ever get the feeling that we're being shoehorned into going 'green'? I've done some very crude and quick calculations and reckon it to be about the same. Not worth the range anxiety (especially in the cold ATM, and if you want to keep the car after the PCP is up then you could be lumbered with a dud battery!
Maybe they should factor in the odd long journey and the cost of using public charging. Not a massive increase in cost but certainly a more realistic one if people wish to move over to electric.
Road tax for EVs won't be free forever once a proportion have switched to them as its unsustainable.
More and more towns/cities are also considering charging fossil fuel vehicles when entering to help out Amazon some more as well.
@@stevecade857 exactly, we bought a used Suzuki Swift diesel (here in the UK) for my daughter a few years back. Now when the car was new the road tax was around £60 per year, by the time she got it £135 was payable. Same car but the rules had changed, because the government can do that whenever they see fit to. That's why I never set too much in store by way of road tax figures when deciding what car to buy, it means very little.
Do people do no research at all before they spout nonsense - yes electric prices will increase but so will petrol/diesel and at a higher rate so it will still be cheaper to drive an ev. where do you get this "dud battery" usually an 8 year warranty on battery.look on autotrader hundreds of cars that are 10+ years old with 70k+ miles that are still fine. sick of hearing the same old whining from fools you research nothing but know everything
@@pokerman111111111111 according to adverts for used cars (whatever their drivetrain) nearly all of them are 'fine'. Well they would be wouldn't they? We're just expressing our concerns and suspicions, at the moment this is all hypothetical. I'm not about to buy an EV, for myself the technology and moreover the infrastructure isn't developed anywhere near enough at the moment. Add to that the risk of fire and therefore insurance rates is a worry is another. Perhaps you mistook these comments to mean that I'll never ever consider buying one, perhaps I will, but it'll be quite awhile yet. Unless my circumstances change of course. Think of VCRs, there was no way I was going to buy one until the technology was proven, cassettes were readily available, and the price had come down to more reasonable levels. I preferred to wait and be patient and allowed others to bear the costs, that's my call.
@@pokerman111111111111 Research on government whims is impossible. It's just speculation until it happens. Just this month overnight the grant for EVs dropped from £2500 to £1500 and the price cap for the eligibility dropped from £35k to £32k. You can argue it was always going to be the case eventually but without warning you can't research and you just don't know. For months now the pay per mile tax has been bandied about but nobody knows who it will affect. Over 20k miles per year? Over 10k miles per year? When? We know it will come as the government can't afford to lose all that lovely fuel duty.
Oh, just today I read the government have u turned on requiring businesses with more than 20 parking spaces to provide charging points. Research my ass. Broken promises more like.
It's crazy that the UK avg mileage is half that of the US. But I guess the cost of gas is considerably higher. It's pretty silly that you quote MPG, but then give cost in liters!
We are a much smaller nation too with supermarkets and local amenities within 2 - 10 miles of every town. I remember having to travel almost double or triple that in California and Washington state just to reach the nearest supermarket. In the UK it is possible to daily shop if work and family doesn't get in the way.
@@EinkOLED Egads! Where in California did you live?!
I live in Sacramento (metro population >1 million), and within 1 mile I have a Whole Foods Market, and a Raley’s (large, excellent locally owned supermarket chain). Two miles the other way is a Trader Joe’s. Also within a 1/2 mile is a Costco and a Win-Co discount supermarket.
But I’m glad you’ve got it better now. We loved our trip to London in February 2020, and look forward to returning. The grocery stores we shopped at there were very nice!
What about the amount of time spent filling up with petrol vs amount of time spent waiting for the electric charge? Time is money!
If your only doing 7k year you leave home with full charge every morning
@@AdrianMcDaid That’s providing you’re lucky enough to have a private driveway with a suitable place for an EV charger/wall-box. What about terraces streets with no off-street parking and no guarantee you can park outside your own home. Charging would more than likely have to be done at a public charger which would cost a lot more and probably narrow the savings to a point where an internal combustion vehicle is a more logical option.
@@m44kts if you don't have the option to charge your car at home or at work at least then don't bother and just get the petrol version, time is valuable and even an EV enthusiast like me wouldn't go for one if it is gonna be wasting my time. But the argument here is if you have that privilege you could be saving so much money by signing up for cheap EV charging rate plans from Octopus in the UK as I have heard. ( an not from the UK)
Since they are comparing the cost for someone who has off street parking this comes out in favour of the EV since it takes seconds to plug in at home and then rarely, if ever, needs to stop to recharge on a journey. So 99% of the refueling is done without wasting any of your time at all.
Whereas every single time the petrol needs
Refueling you have to stop and take 5-10 minutes pumping the petrol.
@@m44kts at the start of the show they talked about people who did have off street parking
That Corsa petrol can do way more than 34mpg and the electric can use way more than you said lol; also they forgot the 5000£ price difference in the end lol.
@Lacey Cook True that battery replacement should be considered. However there's no need to do so in even 6 or so years because most batteries in EVs have 7 years warranty. To top that off our battery have 2% - 3% state of health degradation after 2 years of ownership. This means it'll take very long to get to even 80% of SOH.
If you do lots of short commutes that have lots of congestions and frequent stops at intersections, EVs are in no doubt cheaper to run, a lot cheaper to run. Running any I.C.E. at idle cost bucket loads more compared to EVs. I'm not so much for EVs but I do however go through lots of stop and go scenarios which normally leads to waste of petrol and brakes. EVs, definitely not as much. When accelerating from 0 mph/kmh, even a Kei car uses bucket loads of petrol to get going where you'll use the equivalent of a drop in EVs.
Cost of running EVs can offset the initial purchase cost but that really depends on how you use your car. For lots of short commutes with congestions, EVs are definitely to go for.
Doesn't take into account the battery degradation every year, too. What's the resale value of a 4-year old E-Corsa compared to petrol?
Scary! everyone buying cars on finance which in most cases they probably can't actually afford!
Having owned an EV for the past two years I can tell you that this comparison doesn't include the cost of installing a home charger, the AC to DC conversion loss and the fact that you will never come close to achieving the advertised Kwh / mile during colder months due to the need to heat your car using electricity. The increase in electricity consumption in winter months is significant. Also, the electric cars are heavier and, in my experience, eat through tires faster. I was very surprised when I needed to replace tires after 25 thousand miles.
It would be more interesting to see an actual comparison of cost of ownership rather than an estimate that leaves many variables out.
That fuel price (£1.31/L) is a bit low, was this filmed a bit back? Cheapest near me is 140.9 currently.
On the flip side tho the electric tariff he is referring to is octopus EV tariff, which is 5p per kWh between 12.30am and 4.30am so probably wouldn’t even fully charge the car.
@@Theocurrie It's very rare that you'll need to do a full charge though. Most of the time I plug mine in when it gets to around 50-60% full so all home charging is done at the cheap rate.
@@Theocurrie
You would need a economy 7 tariff?
Which would mean all your normal hour electric is sky high compared to a standard tariff.
£1.31 a litre for petrol do make me laugh more like £1.50 or higher
Every time I go past the pumps the price has gone up. The case for buying an EV gets stronger every day.
You can save £600 a year and have the hassle of charging, finding an available charger, waiting for one to come free, downloading many apps, having to get charge cards, hoping sometimes you can get home
Did anyone else watch the full programme? Shall we say the lack of enthusiasm was quite clear from certain presenters. Whilst others were just going through the "sales" motions
One problem that concerns me with electric cars is that they loose range when its cold , in Scotland sometimes cars get stranded . I carry petrol in the boot in case this happens .
I would freeze or break down completely if stuck on A roads or Motorways in Snow .
For some people unless someone solves that problem Diesel cars make more sense .
@Christine Ayres Norway is considerably colder, yet they have the highest EV uptake in the world right now. Cold weather in the UK is really not a big issue
@Christine Ayres You need to do your calculations again. As has been pointed out - In Norway they use EV's in the actual Arctic Circle.
@@MrGrumtastic
Big subsidiaries.
Without them people wouldn't buy EV.
If they're better overall, people would buy then without incentives.
@@Robert-cu9bm if you are referring to the government grant, this was reduced earlier in the year and also only applies to cars under £35k. The Tesla model 3 was the best selling car in the UK for a number of months this year while not being eligible for the grant. So yes, people will buy without incentives because they are better.
@Christine Ayres nobody's asking you to scrap your car. You just won't be able to buy a new fossil fuel car. Run yours into the ground if you want to but EVs will replace them.
What about when not charging at home. I’m sure there are a fair few people who would have to charge at a public charger? There’s also the fact we’ve gone for the cheapest electric Corsa and the most expensive petrol model.
to make trim level and non manual gears comparable.
Fifth Gear need to make a video on where to source petrol at £1.31 a litre
How would the Opel Corsa CDTi/HDI do?
What about he value of each car after 4 years? Depreciation obviously plays a big part, and was missing from your equation.
True the EV depreciates at a much slower rate
Other factors to consider - Time wasted to charge (long range travels are challenging) plus value of an electric car after 7-8 years when the batteries are at the end of their life..
There are Tesla model s with 8 years of running time and barely any battery degradation. The company has been around long enough for you to just look into this....
my Leaf is 7+ and is not at end of life , and my charging is done while i sleep , batteries are warrantied for7-8 years
@@waynecartwright7276 what's the resale value of a 7 year old Leaf?
@@saiyedsabahat About £9k.
Myth - batteries at end of life at 7-8 years. Tesla has posted data about their batteries with 200,000 miles on then have only lost 10% of its capability
And this is not even considering depreciation and resale value. EVs have significantly less depreciation and significantly higher resale value. When you add that it's a hands down non comparison. I'm sure especially in European countries where internal combustion (ICE) vehicles are going to be straight out banned, the difference will be even higher. I believe London will completely ban ICE vehicles in some years and there is already a pretty big tax to enter London with a gas car i think.
Depends where you live. There is still a massive cost differance for a similar class car that is never overcome in the life of the vehicle. E.g Kona at $80k vs Kamiq MC at $43k. Most new ICE cars here come with free service plans for the first 5 years too. The difference is even more apparent once road user charges that EVs will pay in my country from 2023 are added then theres the inconvenience factor that electric has with range and time to charge too.
That £50 saving per month soon wiped out using charging stations if you need to. Just hype to promote EV’s. They have not taken all factors into consideration.
Great to see Rory on board .. top lad.
It all depends on how many miles you do, how long you keep the car for and how long the battery lasts for if you do decide to keep an electric car for long term. My leaf has lost 2 battery bars out of 12 after 5 1/2 years and only 25000 miles, I also have a 17 year old Mazda MX5 with full range available that still that works perfectly ?
Battery tech and battery management systems have come along way from the first generation Leaf. Tesla's typically are getting well over 200,000 miles. Their new 4680 cell, said to be good for around 1 million.
What do you mean ‘full range available’? Virtually guarantee that a 17 year old car is going to be a lot less fuel efficient than it was when new, and since the petrol tank won’t have grown, logically it must also lose some range.
@@ollyrukes if a car is serviced and maintained it does not lose mpg efficiency that is an old wives tale, i owned a diesel tdi golf that was 14 years old some moons ago and with 185000 miles i was still getting 55 mpg which was no worse then what it gave me at 60,000 miles, my modern golf R that is now 4 years old has given me 46 mpg before on a run which is shocking seeing as vw who we all know like to tell a thib or two advertise it as 40 mpg.
The Leaf was a 1st generation EV with no battery conditioning or heat pump. EV's have already come a long way since then and battery degradation is less significant. Great that you're an early adopter. Well done.
@@daydreamer8373 their new 4680 cell, that doesn't exist yet.
But I agree leaf batteries were bad at degradation. Newer batteries all seem to fare better but time will tell.
The normal insurance group for a Corsa is 7, the EV version is 24! So may work out a few £’s more for a first car?
What about the cost of installing an EV charger? if you have a separate garage and need a new supply this could costs thousands plus the standing charge for that extra supply.. Also what about the need to charge while out and about on fast chargers? Then you pay way more for the electricity... Factor in those costs and its not so clear, you could also factor in the cost of your time, if I am working for myself and charging say £40 an hour, and it takes me 1.5hrs to charge at a fast charger to get home compared to just 2mins at a petrol station then thats an additional cost.. I don't think its as simple as they have made out..
I'll wait for solid state batteries to become available.
Lithium-ion batteries are just too limited in their capability.
And the infrastructure is not ready for non home owners to own one anyway.
Still my Mazda MX-5 ND is gonna stay with me, it's probably the last one for a good while.
Great point on solid state batteries. They will be game changer in many ways.
7,500 miles per year? That seems extremely low but I guess people are working from home now. Plus the only time the initial cost would be a big issue would be cash purchase, I don’t think people on PCP will be as affected by the extra spread out cost
What about diesel where are the tdis 🤨
Sad when they make such inaccurate calculations
Which part is inaccurate? (Genuinely interested)
It is very clear that when comparing these two the EV version is much cheaper to run. However you do lose some capability because of its shorter range (209 WLTP), and long recharge times.
If the capabilities of the EV Corsa are sufficient for your needs it makes a lot of sense, however if you drive long distances, or don't have somewhere to charge it, it's maybe a large burden or unfeasible to switch to an EV.
The report was a biassed hypothetical. In many countries an EV derived from an ICE platform carries a 70% premium. Eg Kona Elite ICE v Kona Elite EV in Australia.
Now Elon Musk is quoted as saying he thinks all vehicle manufacturers should be self supporting and receive no subsidies.
I agree.
That report quoted fuel prices and electricity prices which are not medium ones.
ULP in Australia is currently $1.70 per litre and electricity $0.50 per kWh.
The Kona in real world driving will cost 13c per km for ULP or 8c for Elec.
The purchase price difference is $30k.
So borrowing that amount assuming you can only afford the ICE will cost $20 per week interest only.
Both versions will lose 40% of their value over 5 years. Driving 12000km a year:
5 year cost differences.
EV $5000 interest on price difference
EV ($3000) saving on running energy cost
EV $15000 extra depreciation
EV $2000 extra insurance premiums
EV ($4000) servicing costs saved
Therefore EV will cost $15000 more or $3000 per year than the ULP.
@@waynehobbs5175 you are right this report only applies to British drivers who can get the lowest electricity tariff. That is why I said "It is very clear that when comparing these two the EV version is much cheaper to run."
This EV would not work for my use case, nor do I pay as much in fuel here in America. Where I live it would take me about 8 years 150,000 miles before the cost of a new EV becomes cheaper than the cost of a ICE vehicle (not counting incentives).
I'm not trying to say that everyone should buy an EV, or that EVs will be cheaper for everyone. My goal was simply to say that in this case, if this EV fits your needs, it would be slightly cheaper to run than the compared gasoline car.
EXACTLY - for 90% of people, doing 90% of their journeys they are fine - if one person in 100 does 50,000 miles a year the dont get one (unless its a tesla)
@@pokerman111111111111 a petrol car will suit 100% of users 100% of the time and be cheaper to own and operate over the 5 years average ownership. EVS are ULP plus 50% to buy.
Long haul trips in a Corsa?? Sure, next let's trash Fiat 500 for being useless off-road
.... well.... those figures didn't age well... 3 months and fuel doubled in price!
.... How about pricing this again today... and maybe add another 50% on fuel costs as good contingency
How long are the warranties on most EV's, what does it cover, and what are the costs of batteries and electric motors if they fail outside the warranty? I think you'll find it becomes very expensive in comparison.
You’re not selling it, Rory. EVs are soulless appliances with all the fun removed. Then there’s the charging network. Travel long distances and electricity is more expensive than petrol, and that’s IF the chargers are working which they often aren’t. EVs are great for those with off-street parking who don’t do road trips, but for the rest of us the infrastructure will have to get a lot better first.
What are the cost of charging the car when not at home, not everyone is able to use their home electricity to charge the car? & you will need to use charging stations when travelling distances
Depends where you charge, if you have free charging at your work place, at the supermarket or at a place you frequent, then even better than charging at home. The electric highway, which is currently been taken over by Gridserve (check their plans for the electric forecourts), charge 30p per kilowatt and with the average EV getting 3 miles per kilowatt (A lot do better), thats 10p per mile. Average cost for an ICE car is 13p per mile, so the EV is cheaper. These tests for electric cars are done for people who have the ability to buy them now, which isn't everybody. You make the assumption that by 2035 when a ban on new fossil fuel cars comes in that the charging infrastructure will be the same as is now, it wont. If you cant fit an EV into your life right now there is another 13 years to get things in place so you can.
Most EV's in a few years will easily be able to cover the distances that people travel even when on a long journey with 68% of those currently having off street parking to charge at home (this percentage will increase with new homes coming with charges as standard by law) so wont need the chargers on the journey. www.racfoundation.org/media-centre/cars-parked-23-hours-a-day
As the EV market becomes more popular the money spent on battery technology and efficiency will improve and with mass uptake the purchase cost will also come down. A rapid charger company isn't going to install and spend the money on 30 rapid chargers at a location if 70% of the time they sit unused not making money, so with more EV uptake comes more chargers.
they will vary in price in the same way petrol/diesel prices vary from service station to service station
Its a good point. I had to think about your point you were trying to make. The pain is needing to wait for the car to charge.
Since buying my EV, I can honestly say I have spent less time charging, than have spent filling up with petrol. Most the time, I simply plug in at night and go to sleep.
Did anyone think that come nearer to 2030 which is only 7.5 years away, a used petrol car will be worth peanuts and although a used electric car may have outdated tech, it will still hold it's value more when people only want electric cars. Norway has proven this as 81% of cars there are electric and now their petrol and diesel cars have fuel anxiety because there are no gas stations around!
I'd quite like to have an electric car as a daily driver. It does make a lot of sense given all the challenges we face these days.
However, to me, electric cars will always be regarded as cars that just "make sense". They have been built to solve the problems we are facing.
Whereas cars like an amg c63, m4, GTI, porsches etc etc are built to be bonkers, thrilling and dream cars. Cars you want to drive in the Weekend.
I dont think these electric cars, no matter how fast they might be will ever be cars for the enthusiast. Great for saving tax and driving around in London without congestion charges though.
I’ve got an aclass hybrid… look into it, it’s a no brainier
5p a kWh. Not any more. Cost should be around 25p per kWh once standing charge is factored in. What about cost of tyres and brakes which should need replacing in 30000 miles EV tyres and brakes will cost more than petrol. Cost of charging point installation to factor in as well makes the petrol version cheaper by a few £100
My 74 mile a day commute did cost me £150 a month in my 320D that could do upto 900 miles per tank, the same commute now costs me about £15 a month in my ev.
As for tyres the weight distribution within an EV is actually very well balanced only the torque can harm the tyres much like a diesel car however as its a leaf there is no problem lol, I've just replaced mine and got 4 Michelin E-Primacy 205/55/R16 cost me £208 fitted so £52 a tyre.
As for brakes well yes they need replacing due to lack of use ie the rust like a bitch but I bought myself front discs and pads, rear discs and pads and the rear brake shoes that go inside the rear discs!?? All for £114 all blueprint parts they should last at least 3 years, the discs are bloody huge too bigger than you'd think for a leaf lol.
My power supply was supposed to be £499 but got it from Octopus for £199 and just got a 32amp commando socket installed for £100.
My monthly electric bill has also come down as I now only use the washing machine and tumble dryer, tv, playstation etc in the 5p hours.
5p a kWh, what joke, it’s more like 30p from April and 50p in October 2022
Considering that I use free public DC fast chargers, I'd say the EV is cheaper.
How many miles does the battery last,?
All batteries degrade over time and charging cycle number.
@@stevezodiac491 looked it up: they say 100k miles warranty
that electric rate is incorrect because some charge points do charge alot more
I thought some, at certain retail outlets etc.., were free?
They are quoting the "Octopus Go" EV tariff which is 5p per kWh for 4 hours over night
There has also been a massive price increase in electricity costs so this review is out of date already.
A fun and informative video but I am surprised you reckon on 3.8 miles/kWh. The e-Niro is a heavier and more powerful car but our average for the whole of 2021 was 4.2...this was over 12,000 miles. OK, we live in rural France with warmer, longer summers and are mostly driving on empty roads but I would have expected the Corsa e to me more efficient.
They should base it over 10 to 15 years and include the cost of replacing the battery vs a petrol car maintenance in that time.
You don’t need to replace the whole battery - just the dead/weak cells. On a Leaf this costs a few hundred pounds.
Meanwhile my diesel goes much further than the petrol equivalent and much much further than the battery car
Whilst meanwhile polluting the shit out of our atmospheres!
You can buy a long range EV and your argument is a null and void. Diesels are going to be obsolete soon
@@bid84 see how long it takes to drive 1000 miles in an EV compared to petrol Diesel. See how much a new battery will cost in 8yrs or after few thousand charge cycles.
@@roxieloot Rent a car for long trips, electric as a daily car driving up to a couple of hundred miles makes sense, I have a Nissan Leaf and I’m saving €50 a week on my old dailygolf gti, I also have a 3.0 v6 classic car, best of both worlds. Costs me €200 to tax both, and insurance another €500 a year.
@@roxieloot Btw my leaf is 8 years old and still has 92% battery
Yeah, but what if, like me, you always have to charge on a public charger?
How much does it cost for the charger and to have it installed to your home?
Insurance? Also, this was a WAAAAAY too simplistic analysis of the costings, especially if you leave Europe. Europe thinks they're leading the world on on this stuff but really they're just virtue signalling the world and lecturing us (especially in Australia) when the conditions for owning an electric vs petrol car are SIGNIFICANTLY different. One size does NOT fit all. It's also worth noting that the cost of replacing the batteries at the end of life is VERY high. High enough that it may not be worth replacing them so the car is scrapped. That means it could be that the overall average lifespan of a car is significantly reduced meaning the need for more cars to be produced overall. That's going to use A LOT more energy to manufacture and gather the material required to produce more units per km/mile. I don't think the world has really worked out the pit falls for electric cars vs petrol cars and we definitely have not found solutions worldwide.
@Capt Shiny Yeah it's UK only on RUclips as well 🤦🏻 Maybe if you think this is for the UK only, you should tell Boris to STFU about lecturing and virtue signalling to places like Australia in regard to carbon emissions reduction when he can't even keep the lights on for you lot.
@Capt Shiny No you brought up, "it's only about our country." You specifically said it was a UK show, shown on UK TV. To any normal person, that means it's of no interest to other countries. Like I said, it's on RUclips, which isn't just the UK so funnily enough, they want a bigger audience than just the UK. And you're also wrong about me making it about just me. If you read back through my comments, you'll see that I've used Australia as an example of WHY the position the UK takes (which is virtue signalled everywhere by Boris) is not relevant to other countries and that he (and the EU) should stick their noses somewhere else because quite frankly, Australians are sick if the lecturing from Boris and the EU (and the suggested of export tariffs unless we fall into line) about our climate policies. It's also worth noting that if there are grid problems because of storms or bad weather here in Sydney, we don't have any issues with our majority coal powered grid that alsts longer than 12 hours, even if there is a storm. Funny how reliable power is reliable, regardless of the weather. Can't say the same for the reliability of those pesky renewables can we! 😂
@@richo2501 They don't want to talk about where they get the cobalt for the batteries either. A recent BBC documentary showed the mines in Africa. How local people were exploited. Acid pollution and financial corruption. One of the big instigators. Tesla. In the UK no one wants to talk about the huge numbers that do not have off street parking. The lack of infrastructure. The cost to purchase these cars. How long a battery will last. How the cold, damp and ( where I'm from ) hilly environment will affect things
@@robsmall6466 Yep, totally agree and I'm sure there's even more variables.........the petrol burning engined car has been the individual transportation of people on this planet for the better part of 100 years and they think they can undo that in 20. Good luck with that without making a significant dent in the quality of peoples lives.
Take a deep breath mate ;-) This is a UK TV car show hence the UK prices quoted and the hence the very average Corsa was used not a Commodore :-). Obviously the maths will be different around the world. Just add apply your local costs and use case to see if it suits you.
why are you not comparing the same spec of cars?
the elite petrol is the top of the range but the sri electric is middle of the range
when you price up spec for spec theres between £9000 to £11,000 difference at the OTR price
For those who can afford second cars, off street parking, short trips and rose coloured spectacles.
45p at local shell. Price of electricity is pretty expensive at the moment. On zap map calculations, it works to be more expensive per year.
You should have compared it to charging purely at a charging station, plus my standard tariff is 21p power kWh and electric costs are rising, as for road tax, it might be free of the car is under £40k, above that figure and it's different then
Why would you compare with a station when you spend 90% of your year charging at home?
That's so illogical
@@nujjigram you do realise at some point you will get screwed just like people who drive petrol or diesel cars, it's just a matter of time.
Once the UK government have sucked enough people in with incentives, then the costs will come.
@@acelectricalsecurity why is that a bad thing? Revenue sources will evolve over time
And so will our sources of energy along with our lifestyle habits.
Btw, its more likely that the government will end up taxing non renewable sources of energy next, to compensate for loss of gasoline revenue.
After which they will levy heavy tax at the buying phase to discourage new vehicle sales after 2050.
Everyone will eventually go the path of Netherlands and start cycling to work rather than sitting on their fat butts
Pretty sure you will do everything you can to make your country a better place irrespective of how irresponsible the government is.
i moved from uk to asia. petrol is 40 pence a litre here. So, i choose petrol now. In the future hydrogen. I will pass on the electric stop gap era.
EV's are inevitable, and anyone bringing up hydrogen, have no idea what they are talking about.
hydrogen powered cars just seems like a lot of effort and energy to simply store energy in a gas form when you could just use that electricity and put it directly into a battery. The only people Hydogen cars suit are the fossil fuel companies as it keeps their current distribution model.
The few Hydrogen cars available such as Toyota Mirai are also Electric so you are not passing on any "electric stop gap era". Electric cars are coming, the only variable is the source of the electricity to drive them.
How much are the cars really . Best prices etc. I’ve seen heavily discounted electric Corsa at around £20k
£20k for a corsa? That’s insane.
Electricity price is going up. Also, how are people who live in terraced houses supposed to charge their car? Have a lead running across the pavement to their house?
You don't factor the price of getting the car repaired (if you can find a garage that fixes electric cars), installing a wall charger, the loss of battery capacity during the life of the car, the ever increasing prices of electricity, the money spent (on food or whatever) when you have to stop your electric car to recharge in the middle of a trip, etc. Very biased pro-electric show, as most of them are. BTW, I own a diesel version of a car which costs 10k less than the electric equivalent. My car has 1000 kms of range, cheap maintenance and a consumption of 5 liters/100km. It's imposible for the electric version to be cheaper on the long run.
Watch Rory’s video on the auto trader channel about the same thing. He is so obviously just a government mouthpiece, how has he infiltrated fifth gear 😭
It amazes me how people can be so blind to what is coming. EV's are only ever going to get cheaper, and ICE cars more expensive. Soon EV's will be a no brainer. Most people simply don't realise it yet.
Raepairs and maintenance on EVs are cheaper and easier - there’s just a lot less to go wrong compared to a petrol car.
Thank you for this short yet informative video.
Would love to see a full cost break down on a pcp deal of a petrol, PHEV and BEV including full details on tax, fuel/electric cost, servicing. This would be great as there are some cars which come in all 3 versions, so do a 150 trip which is 50% motor way and 50% A roads and at the end refill the cars to see the exact costs. That would be super helpful. Happy to drive and do the test if you can get the cars.
Sorry you have only factored in the home charging, what about the motorway charging costs?
EV top up away from home would cost a bit more then there's got to be some credit with petrol not giving you range angst.
I've been charging my EV at home, every day, for the past 5 years with my solar panels and have paid: $0, the entire time. I used to pay: $150/mo. for gasoline, or: $1800/yr., which saved me: $9000 over the past 5-years, and I've spent: $0 on maintenance in that time. Yeah, EV's are way, way cheaper, if charging with solar, and still cheaper if paying for power at a public charging station. And I can smoke ANY gas car off the line. :)
I’m in northern England. We say petrol and £, and don’t get any sunshine ☀️😀
How much did you pay for solar panels with installation?
@@dragangasic5680 asking the real question
Massive point that's missed is the cost of charging your ev outside of your house...because lets be honest you won't charge at home all the time. And that currently is almost equal to the price of petrol per mile!
So for the occasions that you do charge away from home it's still cheaper than petrol, but to really offset the high initial cost you want to charge as cheaply as possible as much as possible (some chargers are currently free in various supermarkets and shipping centres etc)
@@SeanPowell but Some don't have the space outside their house to charge, others have to travel far enough away to charge, so as much as a cheap charge is there, for a good few of us that won't actually be the case. They always mention cheap electricity but never the high charge a good few of on street chargers cost.
The numbers are promising but in order to make people buy more EVs you need two things to happen:
1. reduce the price gap between EVs and combustion cars
2. make charging points nearly as accessible as petrol station or offer to install charging systems at people's homes.
Otherwise I don't see many people changing from the convinient combustion cars to EVs
It really depends on how you can work out whether if EVs are feasible to own. If you do lots of short, local commutes that have lots of stop and go in traffics/intersections EVs are really economical and will more than make up for initial purchase cost. Since EVs have significantly fewer moving parts, servicing is either cheaper or less frequent than I.C.E. . Having said that, there are many to consider. One of them is infrastructure. If you have a home with garage, you can easily charge an EV at home regardless of types of charging. You can even you EV charging cable and plug that in a wall. You can charge every night, a two, or even every week. I only use less than a bar of battery everyday to work. If you live to say in apartments that have either one or no chargers, you probably better off with a hybrid. Even if you live in a street that have one or few charging station(s), chances are that it(they) can be occupied by other EV(s).
The only time that pure I.C.E. is really good for is when you do lots of long drives that also require lots of fuel stops. My I.C.E. is therefore saved for my special weekend/holiday drive.
@@t8polestarcyan22 ofcourse for city use EVs are far more superior if like you said you can charge at home overnight, but not everyone has a garage. I live in London where the vast majority park on the streets, if everyone switches to EVs I don’t think we will be able to install chargers for each and every car. This is why I don’t see many people switching anytime soon, for now if you have the money it doesn’t seem like a problem, but I can see it becoming a problem when the EVs numbers start to increase significantly.
@@virusumf For that hybrids are more suited. You might be lucky to get a e.g. 2nd hand Toyota Aqua / Prius C. Even a 2nd hand Honda Insight can cut your fuel bill. Pure I.C.E. are best suited for long drives. I go EVs not because I like them. I take every opportunity go to EV whenever we can. Like you've said, not everyone can do so due to their infrastructure at their homes. Perhaps I'm one of few who live in home with a garage. It's only a matter of time that car parks in apartments will have charging stations or at least power ports though not so soon I guess.
There is a brand new EV you buy for less than a brand new Dacia Sandero but mind you, there're safety concerns. That one is a Wuling Hongguang Mini EV or in parts of Europe it's called... Freze Nikrob/Froggy. Otherwise you'll be a lot better off with so to say a MG ZS EV which has a 5 star Euro NCAP. Basically there are more choices but personally I go for safer models.
Too bad manufactures like Tesla and most car companies are setting bad example that you need to spend lots of money to get an EV. Chinese car manufactures have already set an example to the public that you don't need to spend so much to get one. Eventually more EVs will be cheaper so to make every manufactures to bring prices down, I would go for cheapest one yet safe to drive. That will be the MG ZS EV. Otherwise I would've gone for a Toyota Aqua if I can't plug a car.
That's fine if you can charge at home, but if you're on a long journey and have to charge in the services the prices are extortionate for eclectic cars
Also things get worse in winter when you have to use the lights, heater and radio when driving for a longer period than the summer and that's going to increase costs even further
They just aren't worth it for me and the true overall costs of running an electric car aren't being covered!
Running those systems apart from the heater uses petrol at well anyway. The only cost they missed is the difference in resale value if any. The majority of ev owners already have another non ev in their household that they use for long trips. Furthermore, most owners are charging for free at the car park at work. I would say that if you compared equal specs, then once you’re driving about 10k miles you are certainly better off with an EV if you can charge for free at work.
@@zaydansari4408 when comparing PCP deals you don’t need to Conor’s resell value since you just hand the car back at the end (similar to a lease)
You need to include a battery pack change after 5-6 years under maintenance cost.... Govt may add in environmental taxes in nextn4-5 years as disposing li-ion battery is hazardous... The math is not as simple as explained.
Yeah I was wondering how much the batteries cost to replace. I know that Teslas need theirs done roughly every 100K miles, and the batteries end up costing more than the car is worth by that time.
Also you need to look at off pipe pollution which electric cars produce which either same or more than petrol/diesel vehicles...
Studies are being done on this but the pollution caused by disposing li battery is still not being considered....
Electric as a solution... Dont think it is still very clear..... An automobile body should come up with answers and solutions for this....v
@@Hydraav2 actually every 3 years batteries deteriorate by 8-15% .. And post that every year by 5-8% so even id batteries are made of best of materials still in 5 year batteries will be give u a range of ~20% lower ..... However an ice is likely to be more efficient post 6months upto 10 years... The math becomes even more complicated... Plus to get the best range and efficiency an electric car is to be driven in a very different manner from how and ice is driven....
@@vampire198014 Tesla batteries are good for over 200,00 miles. Their new 4680 cell is said t be good for over 1 million. You are way over exaggerating battery degradation. also nobody is disposing car batteries. Battery recycling is worth billions, Tesla already have a deal in place with Redwood materials to recycle all their batteries, and reuse the material in their battery production.
@@daydreamer8373 Well I don’t know where you got that information, but there has been a huge amount of Teslas needing their batteries replaced not long after 100K. And I haven’t heard of any making 200K on their original battery pack.
Yup. Numbers don’t lie. But, it doesn’t still answer the issue of a higher initial spending for an EV. Other related costs are kinda already sunk cost. Arguably, there may be higher take up rates if the initial expenditure outlay is lower or similar to ICE vehicles. Just imho. :-)
And about the actual energy that goes into the car when charging, compared to what actually goes into the battery (usually 10% to as much as 30 %, depending on car, charger, charging speed, ambient temperature), that actually never see in this type of cost comparisons?
Nice comparison guys. If you have solar installed, you can charge even cheaper.
Not at night, when most charging is done.
Plus, you first have to recoup the installation costs before any payback which is many years
@@Robert-cu9bm so long as you have battery storage you discharge the gathered energy back into the car at night. Payback period for me reduced by 3-4 years since the electricity prices gone up in the last couple months and now looking closer to 7-8 years, only 4 left and the life / warranty on the kit is 20-25 years so…
@@MCSMIK
I don't believe that.
At the current costs of battery storage payback is unlikely.
Let's do some figures, typical cost of a home battery 4k, size is around 13kwh and we'll go with 20p per kWh (so very expensive).
If you were to fully charge and discharge that battery every single day(not possible in the UK with solar)... It would take 4yrs to break even. And that's just the cost of the battery, add in solar you have no hope.
In real world you'll be lucky to break even before your batteries fail.
There are too many unknown variables to make a solid comparison I believe. Fuel prices are exceptionally high now, these will lower again. Road tax for non-EV’s or hybrids will very likely rise due to governmental regulations, depreciation is also hard to predict for these smaller EV’s as there is little to no history to fall back to, etc etc. Besides cost I believe the driving experience is a relevant decision maker as well and generally EV’s drive great. Especially in this compact class an EV drivetrain makes a car feel much more mature quickly. EV’s are here to stay, it is not a hype.
Our Nissan Leaf was £18k in 2016, We part-exchanged it for £9.5k a month ago.
Do you actual believe fuel prices will drop ? i will bet you a new tesla that in 3/6/12 months they will be higher than they are now. if you want to be held to ransom by some arab nation then crak on.me nah ta
Are you able to do an update with the coming hike on energy prices? I believe the gap will be smaller but would be good to see by how much. Of course if using EV as company car there are some tax benefits.
You will have to change the battery at some point?
But what happens after 10 years? The petrol car will still be running (hopefully, but perhaps Vauxhall's are not a great example) after 10 years and will have a second-hand rate higher than an electric because of battery life. Unless the owner has coughed up for a new one .. costing ???? .. the electric range will limit the cars use. And what do we do with the chemicals in those batteries? And are we going to continue to mine great holes in cheap-labour Africa?
Battery tech is improving all the time. Tesla's are good for at least 200,000 miles. Their new 4680 cell good for around 1 million. Charging times are also increasing. Adding 100 miles in a modern EV, is around ten minutes. Batteries are recycled and big business worth billions. And we have been mining for decades, and it has done nowhere near the damage to the environment that the fossil fuel industry has.
Cheap Labour in Africa. You mean Cobalt? Funny how you fail to mention, the oil industry has been using Cobalt for Decades. and unlike oil can be recycled.
@@daydreamer8373 let’s face it your obviously a non car guy spouting the comments spitting in peoples faces about the specs teslas have. Teslas where it’s an American soulless car made in California and Europeans don’t want. Dy u know the old jokes the brits used to use against French cars? True brits don’t buy French cars because of the electrics. Today is true Europeans don’t buy teslas and if you do. You’re a sheep
People forget though that not many keep cars for longer periods and the amount of miles and different road types People use play a massive factor in it. I can see an EV making sense in the city for short trips but if like me you do a 50 mile commute around the countryside and do motorway driving on days off then a turbo diesel works best for me.
This may work on a like for like on a small car but what about larger cars? Since this video that 5p has gone up to 7.5p. EV’s when doing over 100 miles a day don’t come out cheaper when all hinges taken into account.