I think Henry was a bad schemer just like his grandma Margaret and I think it was Margaret who got rid of the princes in that tower and set up "Richard" to go to war with Henry to Steal the crown.
I find it careless that the heir and the spare were treated so differently. In an age of diseases like the plague, tb, and small pox, I would think the spare would be better schooled just in case.
I read somewhere once that the logic might’ve been that the rulers JUST before this had involved brothers fighting brothers for the crown, so having a clear delineation between who had the skills to rule and who didn’t was meant to help prevent the spare thinking they had the right/ability to overthrow their brother
@@tarapeterson5899ohhh….that didn’t cross my mind when I wrote the above comment. While strange to put all ur eggs in one basket & pray ur heir doesn’t die, egos can certainly get in the way when it comes time for the heir to become king (queen) & the spare to quietly accept their place. But, yeah, can definitely see where if both were raised & trained to be rulers that the spare would think they could do it much better. 🤦🏼♀️🙄
It's hard to know, but I suspect that if Arthur had lived, the brothers would not have had a particularly good relationship. I don't think we know enough about Arthur's personality to know if he would have been an administrator king, like his father, but I see him as more like Henry VII due to his education. Young Henry's personality was very strong, and if he had remained a Duke, he would have been off fighting wars for his father and brother, and probably carving a reputation for extravagance and thirst for power. What that would have resulted in as they grew older is anyone's guess, but I'm sure young Henry would have been a formidable influence on Arthur.
What I find extremely fascinating is the fact that although her marriage to Arthur only lasted 5 months, Catherine of Aragon probably spent more time with Arthur than her second husband, his own brother, Henry ever did. And considering that Arthur was raised separately form his mother and sisters, Catherine was probably the closest relationship to a female, except for his nurses, he ever had. I do hope they provided each other with some warmth and comfort in their short-lived marriage.
Ooh, very interesting! I never considered their relationship before, like if they'd have gotten on or not.... not sure if they would have, if they'd spent time together. I wonder how Henry felt about Arthur's death. He was still his brother, after all, but if he didn't really know him very well, would he have even felt very sad? Interesting!
I read somewhere that Henry was destined for the Church. It was a common tradition in history that oldest sons had political (in this case royal) aspirations and the second son was dedicated to the church. An arrangement that benifit any family, having sons in both political and spiritual power. Do we know if this is fact?
@helene4397 A younger start woukd have given Catherine more chance of a living son. She might not have lost a son(8- months gestation) riding to the Battle of Flodden. The quiet, more duty-oriented Arthur may have taken better care of the pregnant Catherine & thebworld would have been so different. I don't know that the reformation wod have had a chance in England. Even Henry VIII didn't really turn protestant - he just wanted a new form if "English Catholicism which he was somewhat the English Pope. And, without needing another"spare" for the dynasty, Elizabeth of York might not have died on her 37th birthday trying to secure one.
And no I don't think the brothers would have been close. 5 years apart, raised separately, and Henry would have resented Arthur's crown and Arthur would have resented Henry's freedom
@@ladyagnes7781 during battle of Flodden while Catherine did address her troops in full armour, she was not in actual battle. She was sewing banners. And how Arthur would have taken care of pregnant Catherine? His care would have been staying away from the bed of his pregnant wife. And visiting other beds.
I think had Arthur & Henry grown up in same environment, they still wouldn’t have had a close relationship. They were very different. One tell tale “sign” was when Henry wrote letters to Catherine of Aragon while pretending to be Arthur, he wrote them from his own words & thoughts. Then when Catherine meets Arthur, she can’t figure out where this “Arthur if her letters” is…that he’s nothing like him. Henry was very much an outdoorsman, loving hunting, archery, horse riding, jousting, Where Arthur was more studious & not into sporting things.
@ ah….thank u for the info. I’d seen that on a series. I should’ve added that to my original post, so I apologize for that 😉 misstep & adding that I wasn’t certain whether true or not. Now I know so, Again…thank u.
Henry's upbringing explains a lot about his later attitudes and behaviour.
I think Henry was a bad schemer just like his grandma Margaret and I think it was Margaret who got rid of the princes in that tower and set up "Richard" to go to war with Henry to Steal the crown.
Yes, it really does!
I find it careless that the heir and the spare were treated so differently. In an age of diseases like the plague, tb, and small pox, I would think the spare would be better schooled just in case.
@@norbertlewandowski6035 I’ve always thought the same thing. Great point.
I read somewhere once that the logic might’ve been that the rulers JUST before this had involved brothers fighting brothers for the crown, so having a clear delineation between who had the skills to rule and who didn’t was meant to help prevent the spare thinking they had the right/ability to overthrow their brother
Yes, it does seem strange, doesn't it?
@@tarapeterson5899ohhh….that didn’t cross my mind when I wrote the above comment. While strange to put all ur eggs in one basket & pray ur heir doesn’t die, egos can certainly get in the way when it comes time for the heir to become king (queen) & the spare to quietly accept their place. But, yeah, can definitely see where if both were raised & trained to be rulers that the spare would think they could do it much better. 🤦🏼♀️🙄
Fascinating yes. I know it was a different time. And it explains a lot of Henry's personality that he had been spoiled and surrounded by women!
Yes!
It's hard to know, but I suspect that if Arthur had lived, the brothers would not have had a particularly good relationship. I don't think we know enough about Arthur's personality to know if he would have been an administrator king, like his father, but I see him as more like Henry VII due to his education. Young Henry's personality was very strong, and if he had remained a Duke, he would have been off fighting wars for his father and brother, and probably carving a reputation for extravagance and thirst for power. What that would have resulted in as they grew older is anyone's guess, but I'm sure young Henry would have been a formidable influence on Arthur.
I always imagine them to be a bit like Prince William and Prince Harry if Arthur had survived longer.
What I find extremely fascinating is the fact that although her marriage to Arthur only lasted 5 months, Catherine of Aragon probably spent more time with Arthur than her second husband, his own brother, Henry ever did. And considering that Arthur was raised separately form his mother and sisters, Catherine was probably the closest relationship to a female, except for his nurses, he ever had. I do hope they provided each other with some warmth and comfort in their short-lived marriage.
Thanks Claire. I think young Henry most resembled his grandfather Edward IV.
Yes, I think so.
Ooh, very interesting! I never considered their relationship before, like if they'd have gotten on or not.... not sure if they would have, if they'd spent time together. I wonder how Henry felt about Arthur's death. He was still his brother, after all, but if he didn't really know him very well, would he have even felt very sad? Interesting!
I'm sure he would have been upset seeing his mother so upset, but Arthur would have been a complete stranger to him.
Arthur was much kinder
What makes you think so?
It's hard to say. He certainly seems to have been more serious, and he was kind to Catherine, but so was Henry in the early years of their marriage.
I read somewhere that Henry was destined for the Church. It was a common tradition in history that oldest sons had political (in this case royal) aspirations and the second son was dedicated to the church. An arrangement that benifit any family, having sons in both political and spiritual power. Do we know if this is fact?
I did read that too. It might suggest why Henry was so religious.
There's actually no evidence at all that Henry VII ever intended his second son for the church.
How different history would be if Arthur had lived to become king. 👑 Perhaps England would be a Catholic nation today.
What if Catherine had had same issues regarding children though? No surviving sons.
I think the Reformation would have happened at some point, but perhaps later.
@helene4397 A younger start woukd have given Catherine more chance of a living son. She might not have lost a son(8- months gestation) riding to the Battle of Flodden. The quiet, more duty-oriented Arthur may have taken better care of the pregnant Catherine & thebworld would have been so different.
I don't know that the reformation wod have had a chance in England. Even Henry VIII didn't really turn protestant - he just wanted a new form if "English Catholicism which he was somewhat the English Pope.
And, without needing another"spare" for the dynasty, Elizabeth of York might not have died on her 37th birthday trying to secure one.
And no I don't think the brothers would have been close.
5 years apart, raised separately, and Henry would have resented Arthur's crown and Arthur would have resented Henry's freedom
@@ladyagnes7781 during battle of Flodden while Catherine did address her troops in full armour, she was not in actual battle. She was sewing banners.
And how Arthur would have taken care of pregnant Catherine? His care would have been staying away from the bed of his pregnant wife. And visiting other beds.
Was Arthur the last Prince of Wales to be sent to live at Ludlow?
I'm not entirely sure. Princess Mary (Mary I) was sent there, although she was never made Princess of Wales.
Joke sad they were kept apart.
I wonder their parents saw this dewey
If they saw that they weren't close?
I think had Arthur & Henry grown up in same environment, they still wouldn’t have had a close relationship. They were very different. One tell tale “sign” was when Henry wrote letters to Catherine of Aragon while pretending to be Arthur, he wrote them from his own words & thoughts. Then when Catherine meets Arthur, she can’t figure out where this “Arthur if her letters” is…that he’s nothing like him. Henry was very much an outdoorsman, loving hunting, archery, horse riding, jousting, Where Arthur was more studious & not into sporting things.
My assumption is that Henry would murder his brother and usurp the throne from his nephew/niece because that's the king of asshole Henry VIII was.
Henry never wrote to Katharine pretending to be Arthur. He was a small child when his brother married her, about 10 years old.
@ ah….thank u for the info. I’d seen that on a series. I should’ve added that to my original post, so I apologize for that 😉 misstep & adding that I wasn’t certain whether true or not. Now I know so, Again…thank u.
@@tinawetzel3912 no problem. I think that was on the Spanish Princess. I do like that show even though it isn't fully accurate.
@@MEAJJEKL Phillippa Gregory 's novels were more about fiction than history. She's a good storyteller but don't use her to know history.