When I first bought a dual cab, I was kinda blown away by the amount of daily "do I need a catch can?" and everyone throwing their money at provent and ryco ones on FB groups. In the performance car community we've always been using the baffled Cusco style ones on high powered street, drift, track cars for the last 20 years, they just work. I really don't remember the last thread on a forum about crankcase pressure unless talking about rings being worn. Then again FB has killed forums and all the good info a long with that. Some things in the 4wd community are just strange to me, some products are just really average and get a foothold in the market and people just go crazy for them. People paying a fortune for top mount intercooler kits, expensive stainless snorkels ($100 worth of mandrel bent pipe), off the shelf bolt on exhausts over $1200 and 4wd turbo kits with compressor/turbine wheels already decades old in design but more expensive than a modern Garrett. I swear, a lot of this stuff is just made to rip 4wd enthusiasts off.
Yep I do a fair bit of offroad use and I think the only "4x4" accessories I have bought is a winch rope and a snatch block also tyres the rest of the other things I have used better alternatives and made most stuff myself for better durability than the accessory garbage that's for sale at 3 times the price it cost to make... and yes my "catch can" is literally a 1.25 coke bottle with 3 hoses feeding into it 2 from rocker cover 1 down to chassis rail
I’ve an ex Army Landrover 110, can’t agree more. I do fundraising offroad weekends and I’ve paid less all up than most have paid in added unnecessary accessories. Army had catch cans, will be checking my crank case pressure tomorrow after seeing this.
As a diesel mechanic of 20 years experience I can say this. I have seen trucks with and without catch cans fitted. Manufacturers design engines and spend heaps on RnD. If a catch can was needed they would have fitted it. They are not race cars so they dont need them. Regularly servicing and maintenance is the key to longevity.
Contrary to what the internet says… catch cans are certainly not a mandatory mod. A diesel in good condition, driven at operating temps should be fine. It’s short drives and heaps of cold starts where engine tolerances aren’t optimal is where the dramas start. Modern diesels included
Certainly not mandatory, but it's important to have a can that doesn't add to the crankcase pressure if you do add one. I've run a home built can for almost 20 years on my gasser (3FE) with no leaks beyond the long-present oil pan seal leak, which is very slight anyway. The can has done great for keeping my intake manifold clean and preventing sludge buildup on my intake valves (last checked with a boroscope about three years ago).
That short drive story is used by so many people but it's wrong. Most engines are at operating temp within 5 to 10 minutes. I've had many diesels at work with clogged intakes and they have long commutes. The biggest factor to diesel engines clogging their intake apart from the EGR is oil choice. I still know mechanics in the trade that think Delo 500 is the best oil for all diesels. When they're run on the correct oil they can do 7500km intervals if the intervals are 15km. See this is the conundrum 15km intervals are for highway use city use ie the wives tale short trip story should be 7.5km intervals with the correct oil.
Hear about it all the time on modern Utes too, a lot of tuners don’t recommend them these days. Just extend the breather into the chassis rail for some rust prevention 😉
1940's "road draft tube".....popular until the 1960's Have a look at photos of old American concrete freeways.... A huge oil streak right down the middle of each lane where the dripping oil just fell on the ground.....
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq iv seen cars with them in particular the 4jj1 Isuzu motors that have had them in the chassis rail for tens of thousands of kms and never had one drip. Can see a little bit of oil vapor that’s it.
The idea behind a catch can is to trap, via loose baffles, oil and water that might otherwise end up in your intake manifold. That's it. You don't need to filter the air or treat it in any other way. Fine filters are going to get clogged - don't use them. Just use a set of baffle plates in the can that provide a surface for the airborne oil to adhere to on its way through the can. You don't have to catch 100% of the oil, but you DO HAVE TO PERMIT THE FREE FLOW OF AIR. Baffles will do all that. You'll trap 95% of the oil in the can and your crankcase will be vented by manifold vacuum.
Provent catch cans have a safety blow off valve which you will certainly see as black oil is all around the outside of the vent. IMO there is nothing to worry about if the catch can has been designed properly.
Ok, the filter is giving you surface area for the oil mist to collect , becoming droplets that end up in the “can” Best idea is take the filter out and replace it with a course steel wool, this would give more surface area but no air flow restriction…well that’s what I found…hope it helps
Yes. I am using loose-knitted SS pot-scrubbing pads and a heavily baffled inlet tube that runs to the bottom of the can to help evenly disperse the vapor throughout the SS wool filter. In my 4"X7" catch can with 1" entry and exit ports. Having great results. The can is equipped with a 3/8" ball check drain valve.
This has certainly raised some important questions. I feel to test if properly though, you should of purchased a new filter and retested. Filters gets blocked and will cause restrictions in any matter of flow, whether it be air, oil or fuel.
I was always confused by peoples obsession with catch cans. If you dont have an egr or common rail why would you need one? I think this is a huge failure on the 4x4 industry recomending them. Berrima deisel have a great comon sense video on this exact issue.
Yeah no doubt mate ya probably right there. I also rember a video roothy done at terain tamer while building Milo 2 where he put a catch can on a 12ht and recommended anyone with a diesel engine to put one on. I'm the world's most basic mechanic was always a bit bamboozled by it all. It's just been great marketing by the industry convincing alot of people that they need something they really don't.
So I have a 06 mustang 4.0 v6 that is supercharged. I'm confused by this as well with my own scenario. The pcv has essentially been deleted, meaning the hoses are no longer on the pcv valve passenger side and drivers side ccv. My egr has been deleted as well. Mostly because of the install of the supercharger and it taking up the room to put back on, but after doing some research the egr delete is a good thing with superchargers. I live where no emissions are a thing, so me personally am not worried about that. So I'm thinking of adding a oil breather cap and a closed loop 3 port catch can to connect to the pcv and ccv. The "out" hose I'll run to the frame of the car and thus should theoretically get a bit of ventilation out of that as well. Your thoughts? Thanks
@@06hunter54 Yes, the older diesel engines don’t have egr so you don’t need one, it’s a complete waste of time. The problem is with later diesel’s and the egr. The pvc returns engine vapour to the intake manifold so it leaves an oily residue in the manifold which is not a problem but when the egr valve opens it allows exhaust to enter the inlet manifold at the same time. The egr is not open all the time, only under certain light driving conditions, but when it is open the oil vapour and soot from the exhaust mixes together to for an almost cement like build up. This can eventually block the intake manifold. The catch can is designed to catch and separate the oil vapour before it goes into the inlet manifold thereby reducing the buildup of gunk in the manifold. A catch can is not a maintenance free item and the can needs to be drained periodically, I do mine every six months just before my Cruiser goes in for a service and the filters need to be changed at specified intervals. It can be surprising to see not only how much oil drains out but the amount of water too. Just to note the egr only opens at light throttle and below about 60km/h if memory serves me correctly so vehicles that do a lot of highway miles have much less of a problem. The whole Exhaust Gas Recirculation system is only for pollution reduction. There are different methods for disabling the egr such as blocking plates but these can cause error codes, there are ways around that, and more recent are plug and play computer chips that trick the ecu into to keeping the egr valves closed without throwing up error codes. These are for pre dpf vehicles. I have a 2020 Sahara so it’s got the dpf as well so that’s a whole other issue that I knew nothing about when I ordered the car. I had a particular set of circumstances that lead us to ordering the car over the phone without even sitting in one or going into the dealership. So far I have had no issues with the dpf and it’s very easy to see how it’s going, the automatic regeneration work perfectly but if I need to do a manual regeneration it’s just a press a button, but again it’s just something to keep an eye on. I hope this helps to clarify why later diesel engines can benefit from a catch can. Cheers Stuart.
I wouldn't recommend a filtered CC. They clog up heaps quicker and get the pressure build up. Baffled or even an alloy one away from the heat as much as possible so the vapors condense. Nice work on the video lads. EGR is a different issue and just a couple of electronic mods can eliminate the clogging intake from a EGR. I have 3.2l Pajero and did the mod at 2500Ks. It now got 160000Ks on the clock and blows no smoke and still has heaps of power with no strip down of the intake manifold needed.
I don't understand why people would even install these. They need maintenance every few tens of thousands of km, things to change and replace in them etc. Why do all this, when you can just buy a new PCV valve in the same interval of time?
I am so glad you did a video on catch cans. Been building/modifying turbo's for over 30 years and the diesel turbo's that leak oil are common and All have catch cans. This is very common were the owner thinks the turbo is stuffed the it is only leaking because the sump is pressurised from a poor catch can. Thanks. Glenn
I made a mistake on my td42 when installing the turbo . silly mistake but thought I blew the turbo but that wasn't the case. was just that the turbo wouldn't drain oil and started spitting oil out the exhaust . all due to crank case presure . I don't think the amount of presure your talking about would cause the rear main seal to leak . or likely to see your turbo leaking oil out into your exhaust
@@mathewsimonelli1332 Crank case pressure can cause the turbo seal to leak on older engines especially if the seals are older and not 100% perfect. I see this all the time and common on diesel engines mostly with catch cans. Not with the same mileage/ age petrol engines because not common or trendy to fit catch cans on petrol turbo engines.
I’m a mechanic and all cars need a catch can in my opinion especially modern cars that burn 3L of oil between services mostly through the PCV valve (looking at you VW) I’ve fitted a couple Ryco and provent catch cans and to be honest I think they’re a bad design a baffled catch can is much better opposed to one with a filter element inside Also a ryco catch can filter being $110 is a ridiculous additional maintenance cost when a simple baffled catch can with a drain is cost free to maintain
@@tom6549 so you think it’s a good idea for VWs to burn 3L of oil through the engine and that that’s healthy for it??? Petrol engines are still effected by carbon buildup hence why VWs ping their engines to death especially when run on 91 like most of them are
@@1RednBlue there’s basically no restriction but the oil will hit the baffles and drop to the bottom of the can Won’t stop all the oil but will still stop the majority, i have a customer with a navara that empties his baffled type catch can every 5000km because it’s full so they clearly work well The ones with filters inside are too much of a restriction and in addition to the PCV valve and is why manufacturers hate them well why they hate catch cans in general
@@tom6549 also I know a local dealer who are getting mechanics I worked with to come in and do carbon cleans on their new DI vehicles Also ask Subaru why they have been selling upper cylinder cleaner aka carbon cleaner as a service item since the early 2000s before DI petrol was around
right i had just a cheapo can wit a steel scrub pad, worked perfect just on the smaller side so had to b drained often... i just did it everytime i filled the tank lol
Relevant video Pat. The other thing to consider is hose size, joints used and filter flow properties... imagine your blowing up a balloon that's super soft and has a large mouth piece, it's easy. Then try and blow up a water balloon (tiny opening, thick rubber) it's super hard to blow up... Catch cans need to vent a relevant amount of air for the motor they're installed on and the hoses and fittings used need to accommodate this air flow too. And yes always clean the filter, just like you would your air filter, oil filter, cabin filter.... it's not filtering if it's full, then it's just blocking.
Oil vapour going through the intake is fine. It's when the vapour cools and becomes sludgy oil again which is the problem. When I started working as a technician catch cans never had filters. They were the stainless steel baffled type. This worked perfectly as it acted like an intercooler for the PCV, cooling the hot oil vapour and make it liquid again. Plastic catch cans are obviously cheaper to produce. Unfortunately plastic is an insulator preventing the vapour from cooling, so they needed to add a filter to clean the air. This added restriction to the PCV which is clearly not good. Get a metal baffled one.....
Neither of you understand how these things work. They are not 'filters' as such. They dont trap oil vapor based on particle size. They essentially provide a large surface area for the air to spread out over, the speed slows down and the oil vapor drops out of the flow on the membrane, eventually building up and falling down with gravity. its called coalescence. Same thing those baffle types are trying to do, but far better. Also, plastic and metal... i dont know why you think metal is superior. You think metal is going to stay cool in an engine bay? metal will get hot and stay hot for longer. That is not the issue at all. No catch can system is designed to encourage cooling. At all. Do you see vents? fins? coolant lines running to them? There are no active or passive cooling features in catch cans regardless of material. Metal and plastic will both match the ambient temperature they are exposed to + temp of the air flowing through them. It is not a consideration at all. Unless you have found a catch can system that has tubes inside like an F1 style intercooler which are cooled by coolant or conduction to an external radiator... no. your metal baffles will quickly reach whatever temp they are exposed to. If there is high restriction being caused its because of poor design or setup. Not all catch cans are created equal. R&D is a real thing and if an aftermarket company is trying to cash in, its unlikely they have done extensive flow and efficacy testing. Also, If the user has set up a generic kit with poorly thought out hose lines, flow restriction may be caused and the blame will probably be levelled at the can itself. Truth is, most people dont understand bernoulli's principle. even so called 'technicians'. Ive heard apparently very experienced diesel mechanics make pretty dumb claims like 'water injection makes more power, therefore high humidity is better for horsepower' not uderstanding the function of change of phase. Technician indeed. ive seen lots of people claiming the steel baffled types are superior. This usually comes from the simple observation style 'its got oil in it, it must be working great' level of testing. Ive yet to see any amateur user or 'technician' perform any bench testing in a controlled environment that can confirm their claims or rival the available data a reputable manufacturer such as provent provides. To illustrate my point, ISUZU trucks have a factory optioned catch can system which uses a coalescence style filter... and the housing is made of plastic. Nuff said.
Catch cans work and anyone who thinks they're not necessary is telling worng! The problem is you're buying those with the filters that just clogged up! Catch cans are made to catch oil not filter it. By the metal one with the baffles that don't clogge
Also, the HPD Catch Can scores really poorly. I believe it has internal baffles. I'm baffled why anybody would still buy one after reading the results of Curtin University's testing, personally.
AUSSIE ARVOS... Honestly you need to throw a clean filter in to get a real test result... and if your servicing the car every 5k and ryco says catchcan every 20 do it every 10 But Honestly if you dont have an EGR or DPF dont bother dude remove it alltogether and only get a provent in futire if you get a modern diesel. Edit . I AM A DIESEL MECHANIC SINCE 2006
A perfect example of how brand snobby people wouldn’t be right in this situation by not running a cheap baffle catch can that wouldn’t restrict. And also surely supercheap is taking the piss with $115 for a filter
Mann and hummel clearly state in their catalogue that the provent is not a one size fits all which is why they have a few different version depending on the engine requirements. Most resellers only sell the provent 200 version but that has a blowby L/min and engine kw limit capacity aswell. Provent has been around well before they hit the 4wd scene. They were mainly developed for commercial diesel trucks in europe.
People spend years at school learning how to build stuff properly..very rarely can anything successfully make engines, especially these engines, better..better off revving it out a bit and keep it standard I say..
Leave the guy alone ;) Now Dan has to spend time chasing this up when there is nothing more to discuss - you don't need a catch can or the manufacturers would have fitted it, but if you want a catch can, get one that introduces minimum restriction.
We used to use stainless steel scourers in catch cans, i imagine a paper style filter element would block very quickly. Keep in mind, too much pressure from the sump, blowby, can be compression ring(s) wearing out
Catch cans are really only beneficial for a few reasons. An oily intercooler will be less efficient, and also oil mixed with egr soot can cause a blockage in the intake manifold. So yes, catch cans have a place for sure. But the filter is absolutely not necessary unless the catch can is designed to use that filter media as part of the oil removal process. Better designs are like Cross country 4x4's baffle design, and hpd uses a kind of steel wool design to catch the micro oil droplets. Both ive seen working personally, as a former employee of cross country 4x4 and running the dyno there, we frequently saw new oil leaks appear after installing these filter type catch cans, removed them and installed our own design and saw same or better oil removal ability, and also stopping oil seal leaks and just required a good clean, since theres actually nothing wrong with the seals, they just aren't designed to hold pressure. Also grant from cross country designed a baffle plate for the 1hz and 1hdt engine that prevents oil flicking off the cam and straight into the open port for egr, which seems to make a huge improvement even without a catch can, so you may be interested in that yourself!
Hi guys Berrimah diesel quotes old diesel like the 1HZ design don’t need a catch can your wasting your money. They have made many videos about catch cans
It the ryco/provent catch cans that are the issue here. Other catch cans are different. They don’t have these problems. The ryco/provent cans have a filter that can be blocked up, a pressure compensator that can fail/get stuck, not work adequately and a relief valve that can do the same. It’s for this reason I do not run a ryco/provent can and use a different brand.
Another great video and very interesting topic, I myself had same blowby with my turbo 1HZ but since changing my catch can filter every time i do an oil change so every 7k of driving it gets a new filter and the blowby doesn't seem to be an issue. i do want to put a front mount intercooler on in the near future and dont want it full of oil.
HPD billet catch can is the go. No filters. Definitely worth it on modern diesels with egr especially when the egr is blocked. I’m very happy with mine on my D22 navara
@@Berawabilly depends where ya block it. My catch can still fills up with oil so it’s doing something. If you delete your EGR completely then yeah no need for a catch can
Been using a catch can for a great many years with no issues. Fit new filters ALL round including the catch can at every service. Not a fair comparison If fitting a dirty, possibly blocked filter back in the catch can.
The catch cans sole job is to catch oil particals it doesn't change the amount of pressure even though you kind of proved it does... I changed the rear seal on mine when the clutch went then fitted the provent knock off catch can 7 years no leak
In the states of aus where routine inspection isn't required. These old engines should vent to atmosphere. It lets the engine breath and stops your intake from filling with oil. Which is worse? burning oil or have a small amount drip on the ground. (Take into consideration that a leaking pressurised rear main will probably leak more then venting)
Yes catch cans do restrict the original airflow intended for cars to have but there’s one simple solution or fix. Just install a one way check valve crankcase breather to replace your regular engine oil cap. That way the crankcase pressure is released and problem solved. This is my own personal setup for my 2023 Ford F150 5.0 Coyote and it works perfectly! I went with the company UPR for my catch can and one way check valve crankcase breather.
its an interesting topic and well worth the discussion, as said the internet is full of people saying CATCH CAN EVERYTHING and if you disagree your a flog. i run one on my gen 4 3.2 paj aswell as an egr delete cable, does it do its job, stuffed if i know love the vid fellas keep it up
I'm 14 and am in the process of buying my second 4wd project (first was a rust bucket subaru brumby). I loved your Paj, Patrick, so the new (old) rig is a 1998 3.5l v6 pajero! cant wait and when its driving ill be getting a Aussie arvos sticker for it to!
Yes my 6.4 /2008 F350 oil filler cap would almost blow out of my fingers. Removed the CCV hose return after the cold air filter plugged the hole going back to the engine to be returned. The CCV is now being vented into the atmosphere. Now run that line through a 1" ID tube to a large 4"X7" catch can with multiple baffles and packed with loose SS pot scrubby pads with a 1.5" open chamber at the bottom of the catch can to create a reservoir to collect any oil and other contaminants. This reservoir has a 3/8" ball check drain valve on the bottom to drain the collected oil and contaminants. The catch can is showing good airflow exiting the can. The CCV pressure seems much less as the oil filter cap no longer floats over the oil filler hole. The catch can is filtered and remains vented to the atmosphere. Now engine seals and gaskets no longer have high pressure being forced against them. That could lead to premature failure. ❤ 👍
I put a catch can on my Wifes old GU, never had any leaks beforehand, 3 weeks after the install, it leaked heavily from the main seal and the rear of the rocker cover, rocker cover gasket was only done 8 months before, I won't be putting one in her D40 she now has and it's currently leak free serviced every 5000kms with no worries
probably dont even need one on yours plus you're using ryco crap, use a proper german made Mann+Hummel one, could be much better, but probably still going to cause restrictions
Crank case oil vapour catch cans are now common in a lot of engines to reduce carbon deposits sticking to intake when ERG systems are on a engine. Especially with Euro 5 and up or Tier 4 engines. Old rule of thumb for commercial diesel engines is blow by can be twice the horsepower before worry. So if you have a 200hp diesel engine you don’t worry about blow by until it exceeds 400cfm at high idle. It’s also a Ryco filter. Very little chance they invest R&D in correct size of can and surface area of filter let a lone correct filter media. My provent 200 catch can filter media is nothing like the Ryco. It’s done 30,000km and doesn’t restrict crank case ventilation at all. It’s on a 2021 Ranger 3.2 and over engine life so far intake has no oil in the intake and the catch can has caught
Fitted a catch can to my 2013 Navara because the internet said so, and the arguments for were pretty sound. Noticed the next time i opened the bonnet, i had an oil leak around the seal around the injector on the rocker cover that wasnt there before the catch can. Removed the catch can, cleaned the rocker cover with brake clean. 2 years later, no more oil leak.
Once the egr valve was introduced is when the problems started with build up with carbon in the intake. I wondered where the oil mist down my intake was coming from along with massive carbon build up in the intake. Oil + hot exhaust gas through the egr equals carbon build up. After installing the catch can it went away. The Toyota 1HD FTE motor was the first with the egr. Yours I think doesn’t have one. Lucky you. You have to change the filter like any filter.
I have a HPD can which doesn't have a fibrous filter, it has a perforated cylinder which just gives a surface for the vapour to hit and then drain off of so it doesn't block flow unless you do not empty the collected oil out of it. I have had mine on for over 100,000km on my V9X Navara which is a heavy breather and have had no leaks from the rear main at all.
The crank case is still venting through the breather filter. The catch can simply does just that - catches blow-by oil, contaminants and excess condensation, preventing it from fouling the intake and direct injection engines. Just be sure to empty it on a schedule. High mileage vehicles more often than newer.
Look at the filter servicing the same as you change your engine oil and filter. Every 5k. Or Get rid of the filter style, go to a Baffle style, but with a drain valve on the bottom. And drain it once a week or so
If you want to reach out I have a pressure transducer & pico scope and we can measure pressure under boost and get real data. Workshop owner melbourne northern suburbs
The Ryco RC3551 catch can has a relief valve set for 4kpa, or about 0.6psi. A adult human can exert between 0.8 to 1.7psi when exhaling, say, inflating a balloon. If your rear engine seal cannot handle the amount of air you could blow into the engine crank case with your own lungs, that's a problem. Most likely, check the relief vale on the catch can. Of course, if the relief valve is working fine and is opening while the engine is running, the filter must be the restriction. Clean or replace the filter.
My New 4x4 has a catch system from factory - not a filter but it divides the oil from the air and leads the separated oil back into the sump... I your Case I cannot say much as I don´t know the engine - in general I am very careful as over the years I have learned that sometime little things can trigger a chain reaction of sorts and cause a lot of headaches.
Catch cans on diesels are there to stop oil getting into the intake. If set up correctly they work fine. I noted someone mentioned engineer's that design engines didn't design the engine with one. Well why did engineers design GDI then after all the intake issues they all decided to add extra port injectors. Engineers are fairly rubbish at their job. I've been a mechanic for 15 years and poor engineering keeps my steak on the table so I know a thing or two about it. Also on some BMW engines they actually have an oil seperater that has a drain back directly to the sump. On most carby or port injected engines it's not needed because you don't get intake oil problems, but on diesel engines you do so you're trying to eliminate as much oil as possible, some will leak from the turbo but such is diesel. When too much oil gets into the intake it can sludge the ports up, good oil helps too as the detergents help brake the oil down also intake cleaner every service helps. I saw some comments about race cars which is different as race cars are mostly spark ignition. When you're on the track the majority of the time there is near wide open throttle so most of the time there is no intake vaccume. Most spark ignition engines are made to clear the crank case with intake vacuum so a race car has to add a can.
Berrima Diesel had a video not long back saying definitely don’t fit one to an 80 or other older diesel motors. I’m getting rid of my one. Thanks for the vid 👍
You are always going to have crankcase pressure, as a vehicle gets older and piston rings wear that crankcase pressure will increase. Yes putting a filter on your crankcase breather would cause back pressure but there should a pressure relief valve on your catch can if that became critical. I would say that being an older vehicle, your rear seals were on the way out anyway. As with any other seals and gaskets, they get hard and brittle and will start seeping. Age is a killer for all of us.
Just on that topic, can newer diesels run it into atmosphere or they need to be plumbed for back pressure or something? Not mechanically minded just something I read somewhere saying modern diesels cant run it straight out into atmosphere.
@@06hunter54 Not sure on modern diesel's mate, but no matter the engine it'll benefit from not having oil rammed down it's throat, the only thing that i can think of would be that having it plumbed in there will be sensors reading that gas and adjusting accordingly for the emissions. No doubt if you disconnected it and it was a problem on a new diesels a fault code will thrown.
I think every car is different especially the newer engines these days. After I watched this video I went tested on my 2022 MUX that is fitted with a Provent 200 catch-can since day 3 after I brought the car. As I unscrew the cap to the last thread it almost wanted to jump off. If I completely unscrew it, it will not stay on there. It will want to do somersaults. This is with catch can closed and sealed. Then I removed the catch can cap and just let the blow-by fumes comes out from it and then undo the oil cap, the behavior was the same. Still vibrate/jump like before without feeling the pressure is any weaker. So if catch can with dirty filter will increase the crankcase pressure, then as soon as I remove the catch can cap the blow-by pressure should visibily reduced like seen in this video, but it did not. I wonder if the video you saw that showed cap stopped jumping right after catch can cape remove, did he hook up his catch can the wrong way. I heard many cases that people hook up their catch can the wrong way which causes excessive crankcase pressure (essentially blocked) build up.
Oil going through is not the problem it will be burnt off. But with egr it bakes hard that is a problem so delete the egr or vent to chassis. both illegal. Iwould have thought if it was such a huge problem the car makers would have a system already there to stop the problem. You dont see thousands pf cars getting repaired because they not running a catch can. Food for thought
Those test would be different if the engine was under load and especially with turbo. Can have negative crankcase pressure at idle and positive pressure under load.
This is why my catchcan is vented straight out the bottom hole/hose. Any pressure is allowed to push directly out. Yes this is where the oil drips. But I let it drip into a plastic coke bottle and drain it every 6 months or more. I have known about this problem when I bought the catchcan. It is also related to buying catchcan with too small diameter hose connectors. Diesel has much blowby pressure. Definitely don’t restrict it!
Steel wool in the catch can instead of a filter will let it breath better filter paper with oil and air for vacuum all ways causes problems with air flow that’s why k&n use filter oil in its air filters it creates a dam for airflow to catch dust
I'm a mechanic and I am not a fan of the Ryco Filtered style CC. produces way to much back pressure. The Provent one are baffled instead and have less backpressure.
I use stainless steel scourers in catch cans on motorbikes ,never had a problem, just empty every few months & clean out every year,depending on milage,if they fill often ,then it could be worn piston rings allowing more gasses to get to sump.
1940's "road draft tube".....popular until the 1960's Have a look at photos of old American concrete freeways.... A huge oil streak right down the middle of each lane where the dripping oil just fell on the ground.....
The wet filter will restict the air flow. I remember my old VW had a similar filter only it had a steel mesh in it , so try just putting Stainless Steel pot scourer in it that way it wont splash around when you go off road. The idea is to reduce oil in the top of your diesel, it's basicly like a P trap without the air lock (look up diesel run away). Using the Stainless steel scourer you could make one using PVC pipe from the hardware, but some engines like a little upper cylinder lube so maybe don't go overboard with this idea.
Hey boys, great conversation starter this one. Hope you can follow this up soon with a comparison with the new filter. Also love to hear Dan's opinion on this. My opinion is that catch cans are only useful on diesels with EGR, as the oil in the blowby only causes a problem if it is heated by the exhaust gases which that cause it to solidify and block up the intake. This doesnt happen without an EGR.
My experience can hold a stand here that my 3.0 AUDI TDI got a diesel runaway after a year of OCC usage. The crankcase pressure buildup was slow but steady, eventually leading to my valve cover gasket blowing up, causing a large amount of oil to spill. The most damage was done to the small oil pathways, which are more sensitive to oil pressure changes, such as the oil cooling system in the turbo. The pressure eventually burst the cooling tunnel in my turbo, letting the working turbo suck in a massive amount of oil directly into the combustion chamber and financially contribute to the catastrophic runaway event.
@DanielMacLean08 you still have blow by gases coming past the pistons into the crank case and being recirculated into the intake. Egr is only half of the problem
EGR and DPF are causing issues simply due to diesel emission laws here in AUS. So before you ooen your comment internet mouth do your own research. I am a diesel mechanic btw
@@tadeuszmichaelwlodarczyk3120 that is his point. You can't keep it simple because it's not simple anymore... i.e. modern emissions laws require EGR on modern diesels.
I’ve had a Provent on my 1hdfte 100 series for about 10 years. It now has nearly 500k on it. No leaks or any other problems. Still doesn’t use oil or rattle. It has a mix of daily driver and dragging around a 2.75 tonne caravan. Not all catch cans are created equal.
Any reduction in pressure will help a leaking rear main. But your rear mains shot mate. Im looking at having to change mine, and that means a full body off trick on my disco 4. 😅
The only cans causing dramas that I've witnessed/worked on were incorrect installed, faulty or wrong sized hoses. I use a Provent 200 on my GU td42t and not a single issues over the 180k, that I've owned it. Have you seen this Jebbreys Jibberish's video on the faulty Ryco cans that made his 200 series very sick? ruclips.net/video/44cIVBsBKYQ/видео.html EDIT: I forgot to mention, that sometimes the motor has excessive blow-by causing that much pressure that no catch can is able to keep up, hence pressurising beyond seal limits and it has to go somewhere...
I would not run a paper filter in a catch can with pre egr engine period, in big trucks ie: cummins x15 for example the filter is changed or cleaned at regular intervals even if it vents to atmosphere. It's just the wrong can for your application!
Just saw the video.... bit late to the party. Installed a Provent with standard filter to my 2.5 courier. Dunno how long it took but, oil leaks in the sump and behind the timing belt cover. Picked up an after market stainless steel mesh filter..... problem solved and still catches oil. 160,000 to 290,000.
Hi free thinkers, on toyota 80 series diesel naturally aspirated, the crank case gas rubber hose mounted one end rocker cover the other hose end intake after the filter. The question, do you want unfiltered crank case gas entering combustion chamber or filter crank case gas, the catch can was blocked, what caused the filter restriction blockage oil or particulates? 27-04-2023
To purely cut the bs out of it a catch can is to catch the oil collection in the air that would otherwise hit your intake and make a build up of crud and oil. The most common issue ive seen is people install and never replace those filters and go off how many KMs the filter says it lasts. But really those tests were done under ideal conditions and apply to only 15% at best of the cars on the road. When in realisticly you should see how much comes out when you drain it everyweek and check the filter. But people want a set and forget option which isnt the case. I service my diesels on hours they run not kms. I do an oil change monthly on my old girls and 3 monthly on my newer diesels. People get pissy hearing this but its what keeps them in good nick. Cheers boys love watching your content.
If you dont have an EGR and have an older diesel ....then no, you don't need a catch can, so stop wasting your money on shit you don't need. People with EGRs in more modern diesels, yes, purely because the exhaust gas mixes with the oil from the PCV valve and turns into those hard carbon deposits that you see in more modern diesels and even petrols, clogging up the intakes etc. The end.
Not entirely sure if it was the underlying problem but I ran one for a few mths on my td42 but my old girl was running extremely hot after only a short drive I pulled over and had found my dipstick blown out I removed the catch can and ran the blow by to the chassis rails now if sits on 70⁰ all day everyday
I installed a catch can about a year ago on my Landrover Defender, after that it starting leaving huge oil puddles each time i parked it. Once i realised that the catch can was the culprit i quickly removed it and had no intention of installing one ever again. Eventually i ended up having to replace the rear main seal as the increased preasure pushed the seal out and was still leaking too much oil. Other land rover owners told me to route the pipe into a hole chasis , to oil up the chasis ;), and avoid the intake completly. Till now this seems to be working just fine and is something of the past.
Do you drain your catch Can? the oil it catches has to go somewhere, and is usually collected in the bottom which should have a drain. Without the catch can the oil (as fumes) gets fed back through the intake but the catch can is condensing it and minimising the oil fed back into the intake.
Why have a filter? Ryco sell filters and they added a filter to what is designed not to need a filter, blow by happens at peak revs and what is the filter doing?. My 80 TD has a front mount intercooler and it is where blow by goes if no catch can. It had considerable oil in it. I am puting a catch can on that is baffled only with an oil level indicator. To me the filter concept is BS.
When I first bought a dual cab, I was kinda blown away by the amount of daily "do I need a catch can?" and everyone throwing their money at provent and ryco ones on FB groups. In the performance car community we've always been using the baffled Cusco style ones on high powered street, drift, track cars for the last 20 years, they just work. I really don't remember the last thread on a forum about crankcase pressure unless talking about rings being worn. Then again FB has killed forums and all the good info a long with that.
Some things in the 4wd community are just strange to me, some products are just really average and get a foothold in the market and people just go crazy for them. People paying a fortune for top mount intercooler kits, expensive stainless snorkels ($100 worth of mandrel bent pipe), off the shelf bolt on exhausts over $1200 and 4wd turbo kits with compressor/turbine wheels already decades old in design but more expensive than a modern Garrett. I swear, a lot of this stuff is just made to rip 4wd enthusiasts off.
Yep I do a fair bit of offroad use and I think the only "4x4" accessories I have bought is a winch rope and a snatch block also tyres the rest of the other things I have used better alternatives and made most stuff myself for better durability than the accessory garbage that's for sale at 3 times the price it cost to make... and yes my "catch can" is literally a 1.25 coke bottle with 3 hoses feeding into it 2 from rocker cover 1 down to chassis rail
@@bingysbackyard Agreed 100%.
I'm a firm believer in the "KISS" method..."Keep It Simple Stupid"...☺
I’ve an ex Army Landrover 110, can’t agree more. I do fundraising offroad weekends and I’ve paid less all up than most have paid in added unnecessary accessories. Army had catch cans, will be checking my crank case pressure tomorrow after seeing this.
people are just dumber these days. all there is too it.
I just got a ryco catch can don't tell me this :( did install it myself tho.
As a diesel mechanic of 20 years experience I can say this. I have seen trucks with and without catch cans fitted. Manufacturers design engines and spend heaps on RnD. If a catch can was needed they would have fitted it. They are not race cars so they dont need them. Regularly servicing and maintenance is the key to longevity.
Love to hear Dan's opinions on this topic
Contrary to what the internet says… catch cans are certainly not a mandatory mod. A diesel in good condition, driven at operating temps should be fine. It’s short drives and heaps of cold starts where engine tolerances aren’t optimal is where the dramas start. Modern diesels included
Isn't that most people though? At least the other half who have to also use their diesel for commutes/shopping during the week.
@@mickypoo yep. That’s partially my point. Clogged inlets are a small minority. And Most people don’t have catch cans
Certainly not mandatory, but it's important to have a can that doesn't add to the crankcase pressure if you do add one. I've run a home built can for almost 20 years on my gasser (3FE) with no leaks beyond the long-present oil pan seal leak, which is very slight anyway. The can has done great for keeping my intake manifold clean and preventing sludge buildup on my intake valves (last checked with a boroscope about three years ago).
That short drive story is used by so many people but it's wrong.
Most engines are at operating temp within 5 to 10 minutes.
I've had many diesels at work with clogged intakes and they have long commutes.
The biggest factor to diesel engines clogging their intake apart from the EGR is oil choice. I still know mechanics in the trade that think Delo 500 is the best oil for all diesels.
When they're run on the correct oil they can do 7500km intervals if the intervals are 15km. See this is the conundrum 15km intervals are for highway use city use ie the wives tale short trip story should be 7.5km intervals with the correct oil.
@@shanerorko8076what diesel oil do you recommend for 1HDFTE?
Hear about it all the time on modern Utes too, a lot of tuners don’t recommend them these days. Just extend the breather into the chassis rail for some rust prevention 😉
1940's "road draft tube".....popular until the 1960's
Have a look at photos of old American concrete freeways....
A huge oil streak right down the middle of each lane where the dripping oil just fell on the ground.....
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq still see a bit of it today hahaha
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq lol yeah some roads still have them around the place.
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq iv seen cars with them in particular the 4jj1 Isuzu motors that have had them in the chassis rail for tens of thousands of kms and never had one drip. Can see a little bit of oil vapor that’s it.
@@Jay151 Go to China and make them change,see how it goes for you....
The idea behind a catch can is to trap, via loose baffles, oil and water that might otherwise end up in your intake manifold. That's it. You don't need to filter the air or treat it in any other way. Fine filters are going to get clogged - don't use them. Just use a set of baffle plates in the can that provide a surface for the airborne oil to adhere to on its way through the can. You don't have to catch 100% of the oil, but you DO HAVE TO PERMIT THE FREE FLOW OF AIR. Baffles will do all that. You'll trap 95% of the oil in the can and your crankcase will be vented by manifold vacuum.
Provent catch cans have a safety blow off valve which you will certainly see as black oil is all around the outside of the vent.
IMO there is nothing to worry about if the catch can has been designed properly.
Ok, the filter is giving you surface area for the oil mist to collect , becoming droplets that end up in the “can”
Best idea is take the filter out and replace it with a course steel wool, this would give more surface area but no air flow restriction…well that’s what I found…hope it helps
Your steel wool to fine, used course ones
@@mohammadnoormauludadnan1847 stainless steel ones are best
this is wat i have done in the past
+ bigger hoses and issues solved :)
Yes. I am using loose-knitted SS pot-scrubbing pads and a heavily baffled inlet tube that runs to the bottom of the can to help evenly disperse the vapor throughout the SS wool filter. In my 4"X7" catch can with 1" entry and exit ports. Having great results. The can is equipped with a 3/8" ball check drain valve.
This has certainly raised some important questions. I feel to test if properly though, you should of purchased a new filter and retested. Filters gets blocked and will cause restrictions in any matter of flow, whether it be air, oil or fuel.
I was always confused by peoples obsession with catch cans. If you dont have an egr or common rail why would you need one? I think this is a huge failure on the 4x4 industry recomending them. Berrima deisel have a great comon sense video on this exact issue.
Well said I have an 80 too, you don’t need one on the old diesels haha, new ones however I think you do
@@AXDBTW that doesn’t make sense, so you wouldn’t t put one on an old diesel car but you’d put one on a new car and stuff up the rear main seal?
Yeah no doubt mate ya probably right there. I also rember a video roothy done at terain tamer while building Milo 2 where he put a catch can on a 12ht and recommended anyone with a diesel engine to put one on. I'm the world's most basic mechanic was always a bit bamboozled by it all. It's just been great marketing by the industry convincing alot of people that they need something they really don't.
So I have a 06 mustang 4.0 v6 that is supercharged. I'm confused by this as well with my own scenario. The pcv has essentially been deleted, meaning the hoses are no longer on the pcv valve passenger side and drivers side ccv. My egr has been deleted as well. Mostly because of the install of the supercharger and it taking up the room to put back on, but after doing some research the egr delete is a good thing with superchargers. I live where no emissions are a thing, so me personally am not worried about that.
So I'm thinking of adding a oil breather cap and a closed loop 3 port catch can to connect to the pcv and ccv. The "out" hose I'll run to the frame of the car and thus should theoretically get a bit of ventilation out of that as well.
Your thoughts?
Thanks
@@06hunter54 Yes, the older diesel engines don’t have egr so you don’t need one, it’s a complete waste of time. The problem is with later diesel’s and the egr. The pvc returns engine vapour to the intake manifold so it leaves an oily residue in the manifold which is not a problem but when the egr valve opens it allows exhaust to enter the inlet manifold at the same time. The egr is not open all the time, only under certain light driving conditions, but when it is open the oil vapour and soot from the exhaust mixes together to for an almost cement like build up. This can eventually block the intake manifold. The catch can is designed to catch and separate the oil vapour before it goes into the inlet manifold thereby reducing the buildup of gunk in the manifold. A catch can is not a maintenance free item and the can needs to be drained periodically, I do mine every six months just before my Cruiser goes in for a service and the filters need to be changed at specified intervals. It can be surprising to see not only how much oil drains out but the amount of water too. Just to note the egr only opens at light throttle and below about 60km/h if memory serves me correctly so vehicles that do a lot of highway miles have much less of a problem. The whole Exhaust Gas Recirculation system is only for pollution reduction. There are different methods for disabling the egr such as blocking plates but these can cause error codes, there are ways around that, and more recent are plug and play computer chips that trick the ecu into to keeping the egr valves closed without throwing up error codes. These are for pre dpf vehicles. I have a 2020 Sahara so it’s got the dpf as well so that’s a whole other issue that I knew nothing about when I ordered the car. I had a particular set of circumstances that lead us to ordering the car over the phone without even sitting in one or going into the dealership. So far I have had no issues with the dpf and it’s very easy to see how it’s going, the automatic regeneration work perfectly but if I need to do a manual regeneration it’s just a press a button, but again it’s just something to keep an eye on. I hope this helps to clarify why later diesel engines can benefit from a catch can. Cheers Stuart.
I wouldn't recommend a filtered CC. They clog up heaps quicker and get the pressure build up. Baffled or even an alloy one away from the heat as much as possible so the vapors condense. Nice work on the video lads. EGR is a different issue and just a couple of electronic mods can eliminate the clogging intake from a EGR. I have 3.2l Pajero and did the mod at 2500Ks. It now got 160000Ks on the clock and blows no smoke and still has heaps of power with no strip down of the intake manifold needed.
I don't understand why people would even install these. They need maintenance every few tens of thousands of km, things to change and replace in them etc. Why do all this, when you can just buy a new PCV valve in the same interval of time?
What electronic mod deals with EGR and the resulting gunge?
Great video. I use a coarse stainless scoura washer pads from hardware store. It breath’s better and keeps oil separate.
I am so glad you did a video on catch cans. Been building/modifying turbo's for over 30 years and the diesel turbo's that leak oil are common and All have catch cans. This is very common were the owner thinks the turbo is stuffed the it is only leaking because the sump is pressurised from a poor catch can.
Thanks.
Glenn
Seen this a few times first thing i check now if the breather is blocked.
Thanks for the comment Glen! I really appreciate the info!
I made a mistake on my td42 when installing the turbo . silly mistake but thought I blew the turbo but that wasn't the case. was just that the turbo wouldn't drain oil and started spitting oil out the exhaust . all due to crank case presure . I don't think the amount of presure your talking about would cause the rear main seal to leak . or likely to see your turbo leaking oil out into your exhaust
@@mathewsimonelli1332 Crank case pressure can cause the turbo seal to leak on older engines especially if the seals are older and not 100% perfect. I see this all the time and common on diesel engines mostly with catch cans. Not with the same mileage/ age petrol engines because not common or trendy to fit catch cans on petrol turbo engines.
Another thing is people having the turbo drain too low on the sump, below the oil level causes preasure in the turbo to push the oil out too
I’m a mechanic and all cars need a catch can in my opinion especially modern cars that burn 3L of oil between services mostly through the PCV valve (looking at you VW)
I’ve fitted a couple Ryco and provent catch cans and to be honest I think they’re a bad design a baffled catch can is much better opposed to one with a filter element inside
Also a ryco catch can filter being $110 is a ridiculous additional maintenance cost when a simple baffled catch can with a drain is cost free to maintain
Hey mate out of interest - why are baffled so much better than filtered?
@@tom6549 so you think it’s a good idea for VWs to burn 3L of oil through the engine and that that’s healthy for it???
Petrol engines are still effected by carbon buildup hence why VWs ping their engines to death especially when run on 91 like most of them are
@@1RednBlue there’s basically no restriction but the oil will hit the baffles and drop to the bottom of the can
Won’t stop all the oil but will still stop the majority, i have a customer with a navara that empties his baffled type catch can every 5000km because it’s full so they clearly work well
The ones with filters inside are too much of a restriction and in addition to the PCV valve and is why manufacturers hate them well why they hate catch cans in general
@@tom6549 also I know a local dealer who are getting mechanics I worked with to come in and do carbon cleans on their new DI vehicles
Also ask Subaru why they have been selling upper cylinder cleaner aka carbon cleaner as a service item since the early 2000s before DI petrol was around
right i had just a cheapo can wit a steel scrub pad, worked perfect just on the smaller side so had to b drained often... i just did it everytime i filled the tank lol
Relevant video Pat. The other thing to consider is hose size, joints used and filter flow properties... imagine your blowing up a balloon that's super soft and has a large mouth piece, it's easy. Then try and blow up a water balloon (tiny opening, thick rubber) it's super hard to blow up...
Catch cans need to vent a relevant amount of air for the motor they're installed on and the hoses and fittings used need to accommodate this air flow too. And yes always clean the filter, just like you would your air filter, oil filter, cabin filter.... it's not filtering if it's full, then it's just blocking.
Oil vapour going through the intake is fine. It's when the vapour cools and becomes sludgy oil again which is the problem.
When I started working as a technician catch cans never had filters. They were the stainless steel baffled type. This worked perfectly as it acted like an intercooler for the PCV, cooling the hot oil vapour and make it liquid again.
Plastic catch cans are obviously cheaper to produce. Unfortunately plastic is an insulator preventing the vapour from cooling, so they needed to add a filter to clean the air.
This added restriction to the PCV which is clearly not good.
Get a metal baffled one.....
Yes and stop getting those filters that just clogged up! Catch cans are made to catch oil not filter it. SMH
Neither of you understand how these things work.
They are not 'filters' as such. They dont trap oil vapor based on particle size. They essentially provide a large surface area for the air to spread out over, the speed slows down and the oil vapor drops out of the flow on the membrane, eventually building up and falling down with gravity. its called coalescence. Same thing those baffle types are trying to do, but far better.
Also, plastic and metal... i dont know why you think metal is superior. You think metal is going to stay cool in an engine bay? metal will get hot and stay hot for longer. That is not the issue at all. No catch can system is designed to encourage cooling. At all. Do you see vents? fins? coolant lines running to them? There are no active or passive cooling features in catch cans regardless of material. Metal and plastic will both match the ambient temperature they are exposed to + temp of the air flowing through them.
It is not a consideration at all. Unless you have found a catch can system that has tubes inside like an F1 style intercooler which are cooled by coolant or conduction to an external radiator... no. your metal baffles will quickly reach whatever temp they are exposed to.
If there is high restriction being caused its because of poor design or setup. Not all catch cans are created equal. R&D is a real thing and if an aftermarket company is trying to cash in, its unlikely they have done extensive flow and efficacy testing. Also, If the user has set up a generic kit with poorly thought out hose lines, flow restriction may be caused and the blame will probably be levelled at the can itself. Truth is, most people dont understand bernoulli's principle. even so called 'technicians'. Ive heard apparently very experienced diesel mechanics make pretty dumb claims like 'water injection makes more power, therefore high humidity is better for horsepower' not uderstanding the function of change of phase. Technician indeed.
ive seen lots of people claiming the steel baffled types are superior. This usually comes from the simple observation style 'its got oil in it, it must be working great' level of testing.
Ive yet to see any amateur user or 'technician' perform any bench testing in a controlled environment that can confirm their claims or rival the available data a reputable manufacturer such as provent provides.
To illustrate my point, ISUZU trucks have a factory optioned catch can system which uses a coalescence style filter... and the housing is made of plastic.
Nuff said.
Catch cans work and anyone who thinks they're not necessary is telling worng! The problem is you're buying those with the filters that just clogged up! Catch cans are made to catch oil not filter it. By the metal one with the baffles that don't clogge
Also, the HPD Catch Can scores really poorly. I believe it has internal baffles. I'm baffled why anybody would still buy one after reading the results of Curtin University's testing, personally.
check out berima diesel, they talk about catch cans all the time, sure in older clunkers you dont need them
Do your rear main bro, run it through your chassis rail extra rust protection 😂
AUSSIE ARVOS...
Honestly you need to throw a clean filter in to get a real test result... and if your servicing the car every 5k and ryco says catchcan every 20 do it every 10
But
Honestly if you dont have an EGR or DPF dont bother dude remove it alltogether and only get a provent in futire if you get a modern diesel.
Edit . I AM A DIESEL MECHANIC SINCE 2006
A perfect example of how brand snobby people wouldn’t be right in this situation by not running a cheap baffle catch can that wouldn’t restrict. And also surely supercheap is taking the piss with $115 for a filter
Well done on an objective coverage of the issue, without hysterics.
Mann and hummel clearly state in their catalogue that the provent is not a one size fits all which is why they have a few different version depending on the engine requirements.
Most resellers only sell the provent 200 version but that has a blowby L/min and engine kw limit capacity aswell.
Provent has been around well before they hit the 4wd scene. They were mainly developed for commercial diesel trucks in europe.
People spend years at school learning how to build stuff properly..very rarely can anything successfully make engines, especially these engines, better..better off revving it out a bit and keep it standard I say..
Very good content. Worth discussing this topic further. Can we have Dan's input on this. Thanks AussieArvos...👍😊
Leave the guy alone ;) Now Dan has to spend time chasing this up when there is nothing more to discuss - you don't need a catch can or the manufacturers would have fitted it, but if you want a catch can, get one that introduces minimum restriction.
We used to use stainless steel scourers in catch cans, i imagine a paper style filter element would block very quickly. Keep in mind, too much pressure from the sump, blowby, can be compression ring(s) wearing out
Catch cans are really only beneficial for a few reasons. An oily intercooler will be less efficient, and also oil mixed with egr soot can cause a blockage in the intake manifold. So yes, catch cans have a place for sure. But the filter is absolutely not necessary unless the catch can is designed to use that filter media as part of the oil removal process. Better designs are like Cross country 4x4's baffle design, and hpd uses a kind of steel wool design to catch the micro oil droplets. Both ive seen working personally, as a former employee of cross country 4x4 and running the dyno there, we frequently saw new oil leaks appear after installing these filter type catch cans, removed them and installed our own design and saw same or better oil removal ability, and also stopping oil seal leaks and just required a good clean, since theres actually nothing wrong with the seals, they just aren't designed to hold pressure. Also grant from cross country designed a baffle plate for the 1hz and 1hdt engine that prevents oil flicking off the cam and straight into the open port for egr, which seems to make a huge improvement even without a catch can, so you may be interested in that yourself!
Great comment, thank you 👍
Hi guys Berrimah diesel quotes old diesel like the 1HZ design don’t need a catch can your wasting your money. They have made many videos about catch cans
It the ryco/provent catch cans that are the issue here. Other catch cans are different. They don’t have these problems. The ryco/provent cans have a filter that can be blocked up, a pressure compensator that can fail/get stuck, not work adequately and a relief valve that can do the same.
It’s for this reason I do not run a ryco/provent can and use a different brand.
Another great video and very interesting topic, I myself had same blowby with my turbo 1HZ but since changing my catch can filter every time i do an oil change so every 7k of driving it gets a new filter and the blowby doesn't seem to be an issue. i do want to put a front mount intercooler on in the near future and dont want it full of oil.
3:40, are you sure the pipers are connected correctly? The ProVent 200 has valves to stop crank case build up.
HPD billet catch can is the go. No filters. Definitely worth it on modern diesels with egr especially when the egr is blocked. I’m very happy with mine on my D22 navara
If the egr is blocked there’s absolutely no need for a catch can.
@@Berawabilly depends where ya block it. My catch can still fills up with oil so it’s doing something. If you delete your EGR completely then yeah no need for a catch can
Been using a catch can for a great many years with no issues. Fit new filters ALL round including the catch can at every service. Not a fair comparison If fitting a dirty, possibly blocked filter back in the catch can.
Did you think that maybe just maybe it was time for the rear main seal to let go?
Yeah 100% could be that too, I was just curious into whether the catch could had accelerated this happening
But the rate of oil leaking when the engine runs can be minimised by "sucking" the crankcase to a slight vacuum...?
The catch cans sole job is to catch oil particals it doesn't change the amount of pressure even though you kind of proved it does... I changed the rear seal on mine when the clutch went then fitted the provent knock off catch can 7 years no leak
In the states of aus where routine inspection isn't required. These old engines should vent to atmosphere.
It lets the engine breath and stops your intake from filling with oil.
Which is worse? burning oil or have a small amount drip on the ground. (Take into consideration that a leaking pressurised rear main will probably leak more then venting)
Yes catch cans do restrict the original airflow intended for cars to have but there’s one simple solution or fix. Just install a one way check valve crankcase breather to replace your regular engine oil cap. That way the crankcase pressure is released and problem solved. This is my own personal setup for my 2023 Ford F150 5.0 Coyote and it works perfectly! I went with the company UPR for my catch can and one way check valve crankcase breather.
its an interesting topic and well worth the discussion, as said the internet is full of people saying CATCH CAN EVERYTHING and if you disagree your a flog.
i run one on my gen 4 3.2 paj aswell as an egr delete cable, does it do its job, stuffed if i know
love the vid fellas keep it up
I'm 14 and am in the process of buying my second 4wd project (first was a rust bucket subaru brumby). I loved your Paj, Patrick, so the new (old) rig is a 1998 3.5l v6 pajero! cant wait and when its driving ill be getting a Aussie arvos sticker for it to!
Yes my 6.4 /2008 F350 oil filler cap would almost blow out of my fingers. Removed the CCV hose return after the cold air filter plugged the hole going back to the engine to be returned. The CCV is now being vented into the atmosphere. Now run that line through a 1" ID tube to a large 4"X7" catch can with multiple baffles and packed with loose SS pot scrubby pads with a 1.5" open chamber at the bottom of the catch can to create a reservoir to collect any oil and other contaminants. This reservoir has a 3/8" ball check drain valve on the bottom to drain the collected oil and contaminants. The catch can is showing good airflow exiting the can. The CCV pressure seems much less as the oil filter cap no longer floats over the oil filler hole. The catch can is filtered and remains vented to the atmosphere. Now engine seals and gaskets no longer have high pressure being forced against them. That could lead to premature failure. ❤ 👍
I put a catch can on my Wifes old GU, never had any leaks beforehand, 3 weeks after the install, it leaked heavily from the main seal and the rear of the rocker cover, rocker cover gasket was only done 8 months before, I won't be putting one in her D40 she now has and it's currently leak free serviced every 5000kms with no worries
probably dont even need one on yours plus you're using ryco crap, use a proper german made Mann+Hummel one, could be much better, but probably still going to cause restrictions
Breather hose straight into the chassis
Shouldn't need too if doesn't have egr wouldn't it just burn it off anyway if there no egr?
Crank case oil vapour catch cans are now common in a lot of engines to reduce carbon deposits sticking to intake when ERG systems are on a engine. Especially with Euro 5 and up or Tier 4 engines.
Old rule of thumb for commercial diesel engines is blow by can be twice the horsepower before worry. So if you have a 200hp diesel engine you don’t worry about blow by until it exceeds 400cfm at high idle.
It’s also a Ryco filter. Very little chance they invest R&D in correct size of can and surface area of filter let a lone correct filter media.
My provent 200 catch can filter media is nothing like the Ryco. It’s done 30,000km and doesn’t restrict crank case ventilation at all. It’s on a 2021 Ranger 3.2 and over engine life so far intake has no oil in the intake and the catch can has caught
Fitted a catch can to my 2013 Navara because the internet said so, and the arguments for were pretty sound. Noticed the next time i opened the bonnet, i had an oil leak around the seal around the injector on the rocker cover that wasnt there before the catch can. Removed the catch can, cleaned the rocker cover with brake clean. 2 years later, no more oil leak.
Once the egr valve was introduced is when the problems started with build up with carbon in the intake. I wondered where the oil mist down my intake was coming from along with massive carbon build up in the intake. Oil + hot exhaust gas through the egr equals carbon build up. After installing the catch can it went away. The Toyota 1HD FTE motor was the first with the egr. Yours I think doesn’t have one. Lucky you. You have to change the filter like any filter.
Man that thing is a beast. I love it.
I have a HPD can which doesn't have a fibrous filter, it has a perforated cylinder which just gives a surface for the vapour to hit and then drain off of so it doesn't block flow unless you do not empty the collected oil out of it. I have had mine on for over 100,000km on my V9X Navara which is a heavy breather and have had no leaks from the rear main at all.
Not all catch cans are created equal. Try installing a different catch can (ie. filterless etc), and see if that makes a difference for you.
Agreed. Those catch cans that come with stainless steel “wool” ones will unlikely cause the back pressure
Not really a filter, it is there to catch oil vapours so the will drip down into the can instead of being sucked into the intake air
The crank case is still venting through the breather filter. The catch can simply does just that - catches blow-by oil, contaminants and excess condensation, preventing it from fouling the intake and direct injection engines. Just be sure to empty it on a schedule. High mileage vehicles more often than newer.
Look at the filter servicing the same as you change your engine oil and filter.
Every 5k.
Or
Get rid of the filter style, go to a Baffle style, but with a drain valve on the bottom.
And drain it once a week or so
If you want to reach out I have a pressure transducer & pico scope and we can measure pressure under boost and get real data. Workshop owner melbourne northern suburbs
The Ryco RC3551 catch can has a relief valve set for 4kpa, or about 0.6psi. A adult human can exert between 0.8 to 1.7psi when exhaling, say, inflating a balloon. If your rear engine seal cannot handle the amount of air you could blow into the engine crank case with your own lungs, that's a problem. Most likely, check the relief vale on the catch can. Of course, if the relief valve is working fine and is opening while the engine is running, the filter must be the restriction. Clean or replace the filter.
My New 4x4 has a catch system from factory - not a filter but it divides the oil from the air and leads the separated oil back into the sump... I your Case I cannot say much as I don´t know the engine - in general I am very careful as over the years I have learned that sometime little things can trigger a chain reaction of sorts and cause a lot of headaches.
Catch cans on diesels are there to stop oil getting into the intake. If set up correctly they work fine.
I noted someone mentioned engineer's that design engines didn't design the engine with one. Well why did engineers design GDI then after all the intake issues they all decided to add extra port injectors. Engineers are fairly rubbish at their job.
I've been a mechanic for 15 years and poor engineering keeps my steak on the table so I know a thing or two about it.
Also on some BMW engines they actually have an oil seperater that has a drain back directly to the sump.
On most carby or port injected engines it's not needed because you don't get intake oil problems, but on diesel engines you do so you're trying to eliminate as much oil as possible, some will leak from the turbo but such is diesel. When too much oil gets into the intake it can sludge the ports up, good oil helps too as the detergents help brake the oil down also intake cleaner every service helps.
I saw some comments about race cars which is different as race cars are mostly spark ignition. When you're on the track the majority of the time there is near wide open throttle so most of the time there is no intake vaccume. Most spark ignition engines are made to clear the crank case with intake vacuum so a race car has to add a can.
Berrima Diesel had a video not long back saying definitely don’t fit one to an 80 or other older diesel motors. I’m getting rid of my one. Thanks for the vid 👍
You are always going to have crankcase pressure, as a vehicle gets older and piston rings wear that crankcase pressure will increase. Yes putting a filter on your crankcase breather would cause back pressure but there should a pressure relief valve on your catch can if that became critical. I would say that being an older vehicle, your rear seals were on the way out anyway. As with any other seals and gaskets, they get hard and brittle and will start seeping. Age is a killer for all of us.
They definitely blow seal's in the higher rev range, best to run factory or to the atmosphere 😉
Just on that topic, can newer diesels run it into atmosphere or they need to be plumbed for back pressure or something? Not mechanically minded just something I read somewhere saying modern diesels cant run it straight out into atmosphere.
Full vent to atmosphere or suck it back in at the air filter and live with the crap in the intake
@@gasnxt6805 so what happens to the inlet pipe in manifold just block it off?
@@06hunter54 Not sure on modern diesel's mate, but no matter the engine it'll benefit from not having oil rammed down it's throat, the only thing that i can think of would be that having it plumbed in there will be sensors reading that gas and adjusting accordingly for the emissions.
No doubt if you disconnected it and it was a problem on a new diesels a fault code will thrown.
@@06hunter54 yep
I think every car is different especially the newer engines these days. After I watched this video I went tested on my 2022 MUX that is fitted with a Provent 200 catch-can since day 3 after I brought the car. As I unscrew the cap to the last thread it almost wanted to jump off. If I completely unscrew it, it will not stay on there. It will want to do somersaults. This is with catch can closed and sealed. Then I removed the catch can cap and just let the blow-by fumes comes out from it and then undo the oil cap, the behavior was the same. Still vibrate/jump like before without feeling the pressure is any weaker. So if catch can with dirty filter will increase the crankcase pressure, then as soon as I remove the catch can cap the blow-by pressure should visibily reduced like seen in this video, but it did not. I wonder if the video you saw that showed cap stopped jumping right after catch can cape remove, did he hook up his catch can the wrong way. I heard many cases that people hook up their catch can the wrong way which causes excessive crankcase pressure (essentially blocked) build up.
It might be the filter when saturated will pass very little. After standing and draining for a while that might improve?
Oil going through is not the problem it will be burnt off. But with egr it bakes hard that is a problem so delete the egr or vent to chassis. both illegal. Iwould have thought if it was such a huge problem the car makers would have a system already there to stop the problem. You dont see thousands pf cars getting repaired because they not running a catch can. Food for thought
Those test would be different if the engine was under load and especially with turbo.
Can have negative crankcase pressure at idle and positive pressure under load.
This is why my catchcan is vented straight out the bottom hole/hose. Any pressure is allowed to push directly out. Yes this is where the oil drips. But I let it drip into a plastic coke bottle and drain it every 6 months or more.
I have known about this problem when I bought the catchcan. It is also related to buying catchcan with too small diameter hose connectors. Diesel has much blowby pressure. Definitely don’t restrict it!
Steel wool in the catch can instead of a filter will let it breath better filter paper with oil and air for vacuum all ways causes problems with air flow that’s why k&n use filter oil in its air filters it creates a dam for airflow to catch dust
Great vid lads. Nailed it!
I don’t have a catch can but do they have a drain valve ? Maybe drive around with it open if it has, all the older cars had the breather pipe open
I'm a mechanic and I am not a fan of the Ryco Filtered style CC. produces way to much back pressure. The Provent one are baffled instead and have less backpressure.
I use stainless steel scourers in catch cans on motorbikes ,never had a problem, just empty every few months & clean out every year,depending on milage,if they fill often ,then it could be worn piston rings allowing more gasses to get to sump.
Just use your factory chassis rail catch can
1940's "road draft tube".....popular until the 1960's
Have a look at photos of old American concrete freeways....
A huge oil streak right down the middle of each lane where the dripping oil just fell on the ground.....
Holden did so until the 70 maybe the 80s
An have money for beers to laugh at the idiots running them...
@@jonathanwright5550 No they didn't.
Maybe in the 50's or early 60's, but certainly not into the 70's, and definitely not into the 80's🤣🇦🇺
@@simonilett998 I've seen them on common doors there's hose straight off the tappet cover dropping the gases to the road
Interesting experiment!
The wet filter will restict the air flow. I remember my old VW had a similar filter only it had a steel mesh in it ,
so try just putting Stainless Steel pot scourer in it that way it wont splash around when you go off road.
The idea is to reduce oil in the top of your diesel, it's basicly like a P trap without the air lock (look up diesel run away).
Using the Stainless steel scourer you could make one using PVC pipe from the hardware, but some engines like a little upper cylinder lube so maybe don't go overboard with this idea.
Hey boys, great conversation starter this one. Hope you can follow this up soon with a comparison with the new filter. Also love to hear Dan's opinion on this.
My opinion is that catch cans are only useful on diesels with EGR, as the oil in the blowby only causes a problem if it is heated by the exhaust gases which that cause it to solidify and block up the intake. This doesnt happen without an EGR.
Better option is to delete EGR through tune or delete cable, don’t really need a catch can if EGR not being used
My experience can hold a stand here that my 3.0 AUDI TDI got a diesel runaway after a year of OCC usage. The crankcase pressure buildup was slow but steady, eventually leading to my valve cover gasket blowing up, causing a large amount of oil to spill. The most damage was done to the small oil pathways, which are more sensitive to oil pressure changes, such as the oil cooling system in the turbo. The pressure eventually burst the cooling tunnel in my turbo, letting the working turbo suck in a massive amount of oil directly into the combustion chamber and financially contribute to the catastrophic runaway event.
@@trophybanana OMG, that's really bad.
@DanielMacLean08 you still have blow by gases coming past the pistons into the crank case and being recirculated into the intake. Egr is only half of the problem
Same thing happened to my 1kz kzj95. Luckily it leaked through the dip stick joint not the seals😂. Immediately removed the occ.
You don't need a catch can on your 1HD-T, get rid of it.
My HPD Catch Can has been installed for 100,00klm on my D'Max without a problem
I walked past a Ryco salesman spruiking a catch can at the 4x4 show. I said don’t need one for my 1HZ.
Just putting my 2 cents worth! Toyota spent thousands developing this motor and some after market hero's think their experts 🙄
EGR and DPF are causing issues simply due to diesel emission laws here in AUS.
So before you ooen your comment internet mouth do your own research. I am a diesel mechanic btw
@@nosignal88 one word of advice MATEY keep things simple and their never will be a problem 🙄
@@tadeuszmichaelwlodarczyk3120 that is his point. You can't keep it simple because it's not simple anymore...
i.e. modern emissions laws require EGR on modern diesels.
@@nosignal88 please point out the dpf on this land cruiser
@@nosignal88 his car does not have a dpf or egr
Or just vent the can or plumb to exhaust and block the intake side (if it has it), to relieve any and all positive pressure caused by it
howdy ... have you noticed that the new 79 series with the 4 cylinder is coming out with a catch can from stock ????
Any decent catch can should have a pressure relief valve and I don't see the point of fitting them to pre egr engines.
I just have a cheap baffle catch can no restriction...So I'd say it depends but I always had my doubts about the 'filtered' pro $ types.
I’ve had a Provent on my 1hdfte 100 series for about 10 years. It now has nearly 500k on it. No leaks or any other problems. Still doesn’t use oil or rattle. It has a mix of daily driver and dragging around a 2.75 tonne caravan. Not all catch cans are created equal.
you guys should do a HPD oil catch can comparison also
Any reduction in pressure will help a leaking rear main. But your rear mains shot mate. Im looking at having to change mine, and that means a full body off trick on my disco 4. 😅
The only cans causing dramas that I've witnessed/worked on were incorrect installed, faulty or wrong sized hoses.
I use a Provent 200 on my GU td42t and not a single issues over the 180k, that I've owned it.
Have you seen this Jebbreys Jibberish's video on the faulty Ryco cans that made his 200 series very sick?
ruclips.net/video/44cIVBsBKYQ/видео.html
EDIT: I forgot to mention, that sometimes the motor has excessive blow-by causing that much pressure that no catch can is able to keep up, hence pressurising beyond seal limits and it has to go somewhere...
I would not run a paper filter in a catch can with pre egr engine period, in big trucks ie: cummins x15 for example the filter is changed or cleaned at regular intervals even if it vents to atmosphere. It's just the wrong can for your application!
Just saw the video.... bit late to the party.
Installed a Provent with standard filter to my 2.5 courier. Dunno how long it took but, oil leaks in the sump and behind the timing belt cover.
Picked up an after market stainless steel mesh filter..... problem solved and still catches oil. 160,000 to 290,000.
This just started happening in my 2012 Pajero. There was a leak in Rear main seal but after cleaning the catch can it stopped a little.
In reality, a 2012 Paj won't need a catch can. All the 'modern' EGR stuff is not on them.
Diesel with no EGR I would not fit a catch can. Just my 2 cents worth.
The best you can get is a Mann Hummel ProVent. These are absoutely safe as a Crankcase Catchcan.
Better off removing egr instead of installing a catch can
Hi free thinkers, on toyota 80 series diesel naturally aspirated, the crank case gas rubber hose mounted one end rocker cover the other hose end intake after the filter. The question, do you want unfiltered crank case gas entering combustion chamber or filter crank case gas, the catch can was blocked, what caused the filter restriction blockage oil or particulates? 27-04-2023
To purely cut the bs out of it a catch can is to catch the oil collection in the air that would otherwise hit your intake and make a build up of crud and oil. The most common issue ive seen is people install and never replace those filters and go off how many KMs the filter says it lasts. But really those tests were done under ideal conditions and apply to only 15% at best of the cars on the road. When in realisticly you should see how much comes out when you drain it everyweek and check the filter. But people want a set and forget option which isnt the case. I service my diesels on hours they run not kms. I do an oil change monthly on my old girls and 3 monthly on my newer diesels. People get pissy hearing this but its what keeps them in good nick. Cheers boys love watching your content.
If you dont have an EGR and have an older diesel ....then no, you don't need a catch can, so stop wasting your money on shit you don't need.
People with EGRs in more modern diesels, yes, purely because the exhaust gas mixes with the oil from the PCV valve and turns into those hard carbon deposits that you see in more modern diesels and even petrols, clogging up the intakes etc.
The end.
Not entirely sure if it was the underlying problem but I ran one for a few mths on my td42 but my old girl was running extremely hot after only a short drive I pulled over and had found my dipstick blown out I removed the catch can and ran the blow by to the chassis rails now if sits on 70⁰ all day everyday
I installed a catch can about a year ago on my Landrover Defender, after that it starting leaving huge oil puddles each time i parked it. Once i realised that the catch can was the culprit i quickly removed it and had no intention of installing one ever again. Eventually i ended up having to replace the rear main seal as the increased preasure pushed the seal out and was still leaking too much oil. Other land rover owners told me to route the pipe into a hole chasis , to oil up the chasis ;), and avoid the intake completly. Till now this seems to be working just fine and is something of the past.
Do you drain your catch Can? the oil it catches has to go somewhere, and is usually collected in the bottom which should have a drain. Without the catch can the oil (as fumes) gets fed back through the intake but the catch can is condensing it and minimising the oil fed back into the intake.
The turbo will come on boost quicker with no oil in the intake so the catch can without the filter is better
The pro vents have a pressure relief valve in case of blocked filter.
It looks like more of a case of a badly designed catch can, than a general catch can issues on older TD engines.
They're heavy breathers from factory and they're getting old these days
Why have a filter? Ryco sell filters and they added a filter to what is designed not to need a filter, blow by happens at peak revs and what is the filter doing?. My 80 TD has a front mount intercooler and it is where blow by goes if no catch can. It had considerable oil in it. I am puting a catch can on that is baffled only with an oil level indicator. To me the filter concept is BS.