I like the foam + KMnO4 mix. Very simple. The downside that I notice is that it burns up, and I doubt you're getting full use of the O2 from that tiny amount of foam fuel. If you want to get that hybrid rocket effect I think it would be better to have a non consumable catalyst and a solid fuel further down the line. For a similar material to your flower foam that is less prone to combustion you might want to look into intercalated graphite. It's possible to intercalate graphite with KMnO4 and I bet it would make an excellent catalyst in that state. There's a paper I replicated at one point that turned graphite powder into an excellent low density foam titled: "One-step room-temperature preparation of expanded graphite". A little KMnO4 in the mix would probably make it into an excellent catalyst, though perhaps too fragile. Another option might be to follow any number of intercalation methods mixing a little KMNO4 into concentrated sulfuric acid, and soaking graphite in the mix for an hour or so. A very durable, flame resistant, and porous option that might make a good catalyst is treating carbon felt in this way. Carbon felt is a wonder material in it's own right and might work for your purposes as is once soaked and dried in KMnO4 solution.
I'm curious what the actual reaction is here. Like, is it just a physical reaction with the shape of the KMnO4? Or is it used up some how in the reaction?
You seem to be well informed. Could you use hydrogen peroxide as a regenerative coolant? Pulse jets get stupid hot and it just goes to waste. If you ran fuel rich in the combustion chamber and then had the highly oxygenated steam go into the exhaust, it should sort of act like an afterburner. At least that's my hypothesis. Would you even need a catalyst then? Would heat just do the job?
@@integza The channel Explosions and Fire or Extractions and Ire (i cant remember which) has a great video about concentration peroxide. You might be able to use some of his methods.
If you want to take this concept further, I would suggest you try to get in contact with Eric Teboul. He's a European drag racer that was running a hydrogen peroxide powered rocket bike for 20+ years up until he retired at the end of 2022. He managed to run a 4.9 second 290MPH pass over the 1/4 mile on the last run before he retired. If anyone could possibly help you improve it, it's probably him.
Isn't decomposition one of the 5 type of chemical reactions🤔? Intezga must've meant its *not a combination reaction* , the type of reaction found in combustion💥. Video Suggestion: attach a turbine and propeller on the exhause of a rocket to increase thrust, similar to a turboprop/fan in planes.✈️
A) SOOO nice of you to give Backyard Ballistics a shoutout! That guys is both entertaining and adorable. B) You absolutely NEED to effectively use up the excess oxygen. Try giving the flour foam a bit of alcohol, or go back to a liquid mix system where the permanganate is dissolved in alcohol.
@integza, you can try vacuum distillation to concentrate the H2O2 solution. You can then probably use a temperature close to room temperature (around 30C) to boil off the water out of the H2O2.
Yep, thats exactly what I was thinking. STP, vacuum chamber at lower temp, or higher temp. .... Will also change temp at which H2O2 will boil, so may cause decomposition... not sure how those bonds break, from boiling or from temperature... maybe the same process. Im not a chemist.
I think vacuum distillation is certainly a good idea. However, as most medium and low-vacuum pumps are oil displacement devices, I would also invest in any sort of a cold trap (could also be dry ice + alcohol if you don't have easy access to liquid nitrogen) to condense and trap the distilled water befores it pollutes the vacuum pump's oil.
If you want to concentrate the h202 better, check out Explosions and Fire, a couple of years ago Tom has concentrated it to 100% and then took it further.
How do you go further than 100% ? 103% ? That makes sense. That makes -107% sense. I 251% trust your math number that insists concentration can go "further" than 100% That is 726% güd logik Math demon is my co pilot
you've improved a lot. you went from recreating existing designs, to designing and creating a brand new type of rocket all on your own. this is real science. as Cave Johnson from the Portal franchise said, "science isn't about 'WHY?', it's about 'WHY NOT?'!"
Apature Science. We do what we must because we can. For the good of all of us. Except the ones who are dead. But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying 'till you run out of cake. And the science gets done and you make a neat gun for the people who are still alive. 😅❤
Great video! I did catch that 1.5 ml vs 250 ml is 233 times the expansion. It is even greater the open volume of the mixing chamber's volume was not factored in- definitely 250-350 expansion. This is a slower expansion than gunpowder but still very powerful. A gunpowder explosion is instantaneous being quite destructive. This expansion is slow and not so destructive unless the gasses were trapped in a container that can hold the pressure. A gunpowder rocket burns gunpowder slower than a bullet propelling it over time but still a relatively short time for burning. The pressurization of gunpowder accelerates its burn speed. In open air gunpowder burns slowly, almost as long as this chemical reaction rate. In a rocket pressure is released out a nozzle to prevent blowing up by too great and more instantaneous explosion. The nozzle is designed with enough open a nozzle or opening on one end to prevent over pressurization and instant explosion. As a kid I learned that there is a ration of 1/3 to 1/2 of the inner explosion chamber that the gas must have to prevent explosion. Too much pressure on the fuel not released will blow up the fuel chamber.
@Integza, you might find molecular sieves particularly useful for drying and concentrating hydrogen peroxide. It’s used to make products anhydrous all the time. You would need quite a lot of them, and they are reusable.
That's exactly what I was gonna say. At 60 °C and say half an atmosphere it would probably go a lot faster. Probably could get to significant concentrations that way too.
Do need to not lower the pressure so much that the peroxide boils off too though. Check the phase diagrams for water and peroxide and find the spot where they're furthest apart for best results.
Fantastic video, as always! Have you considered utilizing the oxygen generated from this reaction for a second stage? It could burn additional butane, potentially squeezing out more thrust.
@@geofrancis2001 i know he basically did that last video when he introduced the concept of a "dual propulsion rocket", except he just burned the raw oxygen and products. Adding more fuel (butane) would make it even stronger than his original concept in LAST video
@Integza Here is a concept for getting better contact between the peroxide and the catalyst: When you cast plaster, insert a bunch of corkscrew shaped pieces of steel (such as a stretched out thin springs, coated in mold release spray if needed, or perhaps literal cork screws). Then, when the plaster is hardened, remove these corkscrew shapes by unscrewing them out of the plaster. Then, inject the peroxide into these corkscrew shaped channels. As the decomposition happens, any liquid that gets pushed by the released gases won't just shoot out of the channel like it would with a straight hole; any liquid droplets propelled by the gases would much more likely slam into the wall of the helical hole, enabling it to react with the catalyst. Try this and see if it doesn't result in more efficient use of your peroxide.
Integza, I think that if you ground the potassium permanganate into a fine powder, it could then be used as a paint base to spray into the mixture/reaction chamber. This would allow a chamber filled with catalyst coated rods running the length of the chamber. These rods may increase the surface area enough to react quickly. Another option is to coat the injection tubes as well.
Permanganate is a fine powder. You clearly never worked with it. When I bought it, it was incredibly fine powder. As long as you don't buy it from a fountain and pond supply shop, where it is impure and 30% grey colored, it should be powder. Buy from reputable chemical supply shop and it will be fine powder. No grinding necessary. Don't buy it from Todd JoeButt Jr, behind the McDonald's dumpster.
Genuinely love how you don't just gloss over details and just tell everything how it is. In terms of catalyst, what if you used acid to etch away silver so that the surface becomes pitted and exposes more area? Kinda like activated charcoal. And speaking of activated charcoal, how does it work with peroxide? I was surprised coconut coal can decompose it
turning wood into coal concentrates a bunch of the solids a tree has...and since every living organism has metal ions in their bodies i presume a bunch of them during the process gets reduced just like in ash from a firepit (the first soaps were made using ash as the catalist for the saponification)...and since coal has a bunch of small pores increasing it's surface, it acts pretty much like paladium on carbon with the small deposits of teeny tiny metal particles...now does any charcoal works? idk...now what i can assume is that since coconut is a seed that the tree pours a lot of nutrients into (including metals from the soil) for the seed to be viable upt to 3 years after detaching from the tree, the concentration of metals on coconut charcoal could be higher than other commonly used charcoals...
Soo Hydrogen Peroxide decomposition over a catalyst is classified as a monopropellant and was used in (among other things) the attitude control thrusters of the mercury capsule (though over a silver catalyst). But there is a flaw in your thinking of using KMnO4 as a decomposition catalyst. KMnO4 is not a catalyst for the decomposition of Hydrogen Peroxide, it actually reacts with it. The equation goes something like: 3 H2O2 + 2KMnO4 -> 3 O2 + 2 MnO2 + 2 KOH + 2 H2O (whomever wants to discuss balancing of redox equations feel free but this is about principle). The MnO2 that is formed (also called "Braunstein" = "Brown Stone") is what's actually catalytically active in the decomposition of H2O2 and this is also what the brown sludge in the exhaust of your previous rockets was. So you should investigate if you want to use a stoichiometric mixture of KMnO4 and H2O2 for your rocket or if you want to try a catalyst bed from MnO2 or if you should continue on the silver catalyst. By the way H2O2 has a specific impulse of 117s at sea level (half that of hydrazine) and the lowest concentration I found for propellant formulation was 75%. Also you should check out Tom at Explosions and Fire for tips on safety when it comes to concentrated hydrogen peroxide.
An option you could do as a middleground option that's both accessible and interesting for your foam + KMn04 strategy is to create a carbon foam using bread. AvE did a video on it years ago, and it might work for your strategy. Hilariously enough, one of the topics you'd need to figure out would be the optimal bread to use to have the best crumb structure to absorb the KMnO4 and react with the peroxide. Would a dense foam from the dense crumb of a japanese milk bread be optimal or would an airy open crumb from a ciabatta or even airier with pan de cristal be best? Either way, super easy thing to test, it's as simple as getting bread! Also depending on the results, you could possibly even put the carbon foam to be milled as you did the flower foam. Probably not with an airy bread, but the japanese milk bread can have an incredibly dense and fluffy crumb, especially if you do the method when its baked in a lidded bread pan. Also fun fact, I accidentally discovered the ability to concentrate peroxide in highschool where I had filled a bowl with it for something with regular household peroxide, but forgotten to dump it and it sat on a shelf for a few months. I found the near-empty dish and dumped it, but accidentally touched the tip of my thumb to the small amount of remaining fluid. Over the next couple hours, half my thumb was white and it bloody hurt like crazy.
it's important to note that, while is wasn't made clear in this video, the V2 **is not** an hydrogen peroxide rocket, it has hydrogen peroxide driven turbopumps, but the main thruster was an ethanol-lox engine.
@@thedogfather5445 yes, he did say that the pumps were driven by hydrogen peroxide, but I don't remember him talking about the main thruster propellant, which is why I made this clarification. the video is otherwise very good.
Hey Integza! Looks awesome! I was thinking something that could help the design would be an improved injector. This goes along with what you said about surface area, where if you can maximize the contact between the peroxide and the catalyst you should get better results. Maybe an injector that does a better job of atomizing the peroxide rather than spraying jets of it directly into the catalyst would be beneficial? I also thought the charcoal/ceramic idea was really awesome and pursuing this could have some interesting results. I think early H2O2 rockets used pellets of catalyst in a chamber, so the chunks of charcoal might be the right idea, trying mixtures with permanganate and maybe some other additives would be awesome. In future videos I'd love to see improvements on this and maybe one day combustion of the oxygen product to make a bipropellant rocket! Keep it up!
To concentrate the peroxide, maybe try to do what Tom from Explosions&Fire did, which is using sulphuric acid to dehydrate peroxide. Took him months, but it's worth a try.
Reactions only happen at the interfaces, which is why meshes/foams work better. You need to give the same attention to peroxide. Improve the injector so the peroxide droplet sizes are smaller and you will get a more violent reaction.
Really great video, as always! Perhaps a bit of a change from your usual content (but still in line with your channel theme), I would love to see you build a Tesla Egg of Columbus. They are so cool and I can't find a tutorial for one anywhere. Seems like a fun thing to have around to demonstrate Tesla's induction motor. Anyway, thanks for your hard work on these videos!
Hi integza! I think you are getting there! BUT, be careful with the H2O2 concentration. As you concentrate it, you need to keep a certain level of “stabilizers” in it. If not, it could spontaneously combust. That is why high concentration H2O2 is considered so dangerous. I suspect you already know this but just for everyone else, this stiuf can get nasty if you don’t know what you are doing with it. So be very careful and don’t do this in the house and make sure you know the chemistry properly (with the stabilizers) or you could get a nasty surprise from this stuff. And that assumes you do all the handling properly (everything ultra clean because just a dust spec can act as a catalyst to set it all off). Cool, and looking forward to the next version!
As an aid to visualising the results have a look at the damaged caused to the very heavy duty facilities built in WW2 by the Germans. Tino Struckmann shows the damage on his many documentaries on Lost Battlefields.
Got to correct your intro... As a chemistry teacher decomposition is a chemical reaction! Below are all the standard common reactions: Combination Reaction (also known as Synthesis Reaction): A + B → AB Decomposition Reaction: AB → A + B Single-Replacement Reaction: A + BC → AC + B Double-Replacement Reaction AB + CD → AD + CB Combustion Reaction: C[X]H[Y] + O2 → CO2 + H2O (hydrocarbon reacting with oxygen to make carbon dioxide and water while giving off heat... note this is only the common combustion formula as you could also generalize it as any fuel mixing with any oxidant, but for high school chemistry we stick with hydrocarbons as the fuel and oxygen as the oxidant)
The rocket belt you mentioned in this video. I did the machine work on the engine parts. The catalyst pack in the engine was silver plated stainless screen material. If I remember some kind of stainless steel screen. But it was all heat treated in an oven somehow. I’m not exactly sure of the process. (Not the part I did). But it was very tightly packed requiring a press to do this. Then the engine was welded together. The hydrogen peroxide they used was distilled from 50% solution in a special lab/trailer they built. A very, very, very dangerous thing to do. If I were you I wouldn’t do it. But it’s up to you. Anyway on the rocket belt there was a high pressure vessel containing 6000 psi of nitrogen (if I remember) that pushed the hydrogen peroxide solution into the catalyst pack in the engine. This expanded into two tubes that exited thru nozzles (Designed by my friend). On the end of these nozzles we’re sort of flow directors that could divert the flow for spinning the rocket in the vertical axis. The whole belt/engine hung on a hemi joint on the pilots hack which he controlled by the two handles you see in you video. The whole flight time was around 60 seconds. The pilot had a vibrating devise on his wrist that alerted him of how much time he had remaining left to land. This thing was mainly flown in stunt shows at stadiums as an opening event type of thing. The test flight I saw the thing was very loud. Like a jet plane taking off. The guy that flew it must have had ball of steel. Because when you run out of fuel you fall!
I did some looking and found that enhancing the concentration of hydrogen peroxide through evaporation is most effectively achieved in a vacuum. Also, molecular sieves can potentially get the concentration to between 70-80%. However, it's important to note that hydrogen peroxide often contains stabilizers that might disrupt certain processes. Apparently, the highly concentrated hydrogen peroxide used in rocket propellants is formulated with specialized stabilizers that do not hinder its application. It's not exactly a suggestion for a show topic, but I hope this counts. Good luck!
Thanks for the cool videos, Maybe 60degrees temp and some vacume would be worth trying. A rocket using all the oxygen from the decomposition would be a nice video idea. There will be even more heat and a faster jet at the nozzle.
Cool video!!! Using steam to power an RC airplane's propeller could be an interesting experiment. Something, you could try out in the future: building a jet engine that has a hole in it. Let me explain: Similar to your Dyson engine, it could have a hole running through the middle to increase the output thrust. However, this time, instead of building the compressor into the handle, you could build it around the hole itself, so you don't need a handle anymore. I've been thinking about this concept for a while after watching your video and would love to see this peculiar jet engine in action!
As always, Great video, and fun idea! I'm actually thinking about buying a 3d-printer this weekend so i'm looking forward to following in your footsteps. I also have a videoidea for you: Please team up with Peter sripol and make one of your rockets actually fly! You could mount it on a low speed plane, but I want to see if you could create and actually fly a jet-plane
Next video: Build a more advanced low bypass turbofan jet engine, with at least 2 shafts, with afterburner, use also VGV's and NGV's (Variable Guide Vanes and Nozzle Guide Vans) for better performance. And use it in a jet plane. Work very hard in it for it to have great thrust (above 60kg thrust) and good efficiency. BTW, love your content, and it's first time i ever find a Portuguese person in RUclips making interesting content. (I'm also Portuguese)
It works on etanol so maybe works with h2o2 but wouldnt it easily reach 100%? I know that the molecular sieves i used in school did not burn so i think its save to do. ( i dont know how tight water is in h2o2, sorry multilingual problem if this does not make sense)
@@Hnkka it is a decomposition reaction not an oxidation reaction so the concerns are different. Molecular sieves work by having fissures in the surface sized so that the target contaminates adhere to them, in most cases it's water. Because the molecular size of H2O and H2O2 are so close it might not work, but the bigger issue is that the high surface area might also give reaction sites for the H2O2 to decompose. Activated charcoal works in a similar way to molecular sieves and in this video he used charcoal as a catalyst for decomposition of the H2O2. I am unsure if the reason charcoal works as a catalyst is because of it's surface area or because of it's carbon content.
If you use 3Å molecular sieves it might work. That extra oxygen increases the size of the molecule significantly. Water molecules are just barely small enough to fit into to pores of 3Å MS, so hydrogen peroxide molecules absolutely wouldn’t fit. However, the sieves are made of a type of clay called zeolites. Zeolites contain metals, and metals cause the peroxide to decompose. The only why to know for sure is to try it. The sieves naturally bubble a little when absorbing stuff because air is displaced, but if the peroxide is decomposing a lot of oxygen will be released.
Instead of coconut charcoal, you could also use Toilet paper charcoal, I've heard its one of the best charcoal's there is some hobbyists use it to make good quality gunpowder.
What an awesome concept! I’ve worked at spacex for 8.5 years, first as an engine technician, now as an analyst. I’ve worked hand in hand with test engineers for years and have been sharing your videos with some of them, specifically ones that have worked previously with 3d printed propellants
This is really cool. One thing I often try to figure out is how to build a large rotating vessel into space for under $100K. So far, my best concept is in a pizza cutter shape. The outer wheel is made of fiberglass and spins very rapidly holding hot water. The spin and heat are the energy storage used to power the hot plate to steam the water, as it flows out the pizza cutter handle. An electric generator sits at the center (drawing power off the spin). The spin also pushes the water down a tube that flows down the pizza cutter handle to the hot plate just before the exhaust nozzles. The exhaust nozzles only need to gimbal on one axis because the spin of the wheel holds the vertical orientation. The gimble is therefore generally turned against gravity to the wheel can spin against the pizza cutter handle. Water expands 1,600 times when it changes to a gas and it has a lot of mass so the thrust is quite strong. This vessel would look something like a big Ferris wheel. Yes. Water is heavy but a heavy propellant gives a lot of thrust and the energy storage has no weight at all, using this method--it's just heat a spin. I have some equations for this and I am convinced it is workable with a fair amount of room for the weight of the vehicle itself.
Does water expand into gas the same in space ? I'm not convinced it does. Not at all. Give me the 100k and I will build you a large metal hamster wheel.
Pretty cheap and easy to use, can get ethanol concentration up into the nineties, no idea if there's a pore size which works with H2O2, but would be a little surprised if not.
Hey integza, try making an Turboramjet/ Rocket ramjet jet engine. It works like a weaker turbojet at lower speeds and like ramjet when it takes off. It engages the ramjet part by essentialy using a secondary bi fuel rocket engine inside, which turns the turbine, which pulls more air into the main ramjet combustion chamber.
Now I'm wondering if activated charcoal is the best thing to adsorb the permanganate onto. Also I'm assuming you must have stumbled onto it, but ExplosionsAndFire has a great video about concentrating hydrogen peroxide.
@@Phred_Phlintstoner kinda, he spent like 112 days or something to get it to 90ish percent before he froze it. Problem with freezing is that around 60% it forms something similar to an azeotrope in distillation. Fractional distillation under vaccuum is the way to go
Great video! I have suggestions for your next things to try. Musing more than anything else, but one extra step to the flower block A material that has these properties is exactly what you need. It transmits heat to clinging water so well it can boil ice water with sunlight. I understand this material has more surface area than the famed coconut husk carbon. Pyrolize it. Then heat it under pressure at 300C with nitric acid and iodine for 6 hours. Cool, open. Heat to 90C to drive off the nitric acid. My geeky brain thinks this should be perfect.
Thank you so much for exploring chemical deposition of metals in your videos! Your method of copper plating the electrode in the bladeless fan episode gave me the idea of using electroplating to make custom PCBs in my apartment workshop, and so far its working well!
Hi Integza, great video once again! I've been enjoying your content for quite a few years now and still love every video that comes out. Just a little mistake that I noticed in this one though. Regarding the V-bombs. Namely, it is not "Vergertungswaffe", but "Vergeltungswaffe". Vergeltung of course translating to retribution, or vengeance. Keep up the great and informative videos though!!
Maybe nothing but worth a try. I know about some weird and not so intuitive way to remove water from alcohol without heat. The point is, you need to add a lot of salt into solution. Sounds weird, but salt is solvable in water, but not in ethanol. And so, water becomes a very salty brine that is much denser than ethanol, and this brine is forming a layer on the bottom, it becomes visible by naked eye. And than all you need to do is to carefully scoop the liquid from the top, wich will be mostly ethanol. The process than can be repeated several times to purify even more. If you put salt in almost pure alcohol, it won't dissolve, and will just stay as a solid in the bottom. The point is, I have zero idea if hydrogen peroxide reacts with salt. And obviously if it does, it's not gonna work. Still may be useful to keep in mind
C-stoff is not made of potassium permanganate, it was a mixture of several components consisting of (by weight) 57% methanol, 30% hydrazine hydrate, 12% water, and 1% potassium tetracyanocuprate, combined with high test hydrogen peroxide it created a hypergolic fuel which combusts at very high pressure and temperatures. Potassium permanganate mixed with H2O2 does not generate anywhere near enough heat and pressure to be used as a rocket fuel, and unless you inject fuel into the oxygen stream it will provide negligible thrust.
heres an idea for your nebula series, everyday astronaut has a pretty extensive set of videos covering how rocket engines work, even a family tree one, you could if you wanted to ask him for help on your one. just a thought
Two engines that have always fascinated me are the RAM Jet and SCRAM Jet engines designed for extreme high speeds with little oxygen. Might be interesting to see a hybrid pulse detonation SCRAM Jet engine.
Integza!! Look into membrane distillation!! You can move water with just a temperature differential, so for example make the input side of the membrane distillation tank at say 40 or 50 C and the out side at 20 or 30 C (bigger difference is better) and you will get water moving across the barrier. Contact me if you want my little bit of knowledge on it, or if you want me to put you in contact with my professors from college who actually were researching it. It works by hydrophobic membranes basically causing the water to evaporate on one side of the membrane and travel along the heat gradient to then condense on the other side.
I used to make H202 rockets and distilled my own 90% peroxide using 50% food grade, a simple home built vacuum still and a halogen light bulb as a safe heat source. I could easily distill about 2 gallons of roughly 90% from 5 gallons of 50% in about a full day (you lose a lot with a crappy homebuilt still), but storing 90% peroxide is way more challenging than distilling it, stainless works, but 1060 aluminum containers are best. Also, 99%+ pure silver screen works great as a catalyst with 90%+ H202, not so well for anything below 85%.
50% h2o2 is not "food grade" it is, melt your fingers grade. Do not drink it. I drank bleach and crapped blood, it was very educational, because it taught me that drinking bleach causes you to crap blood. I wrote a scientific paper on it, but Scientific American was not interested. They probably already had covered that topic. It's a popular thesis subject. 💩🩸
As a survivalist bushcrafter and camper I use potassium permanganate as a fire starter when using damp or wet wood or when its very windy and add it to powdered glucose and a couple of drips of water.
Small correction. I assume this has been said before me but the KMnO4 does do a chemical reaction with the H2O2 it's a RedOx reaction 2KMnO4 + 3H2O2 > 2MnO2 + 2H2O + 3O2 +2 KOH. The decomposition in the other examples is also a chemical reaction 2H2O2 > 2H2O + O2. Now I am just a TA not a Studied Chemist but the coconut charcoal got me thinking how it would work with Active charcoal as it is used as a katalist in similar situations
Theme for future video!! Make a plasma powered ekranoplan and stick some tomatoes on it!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 Congratulations on 1M subs 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 Edit:- I always like my own comment Edit 1:- Ma, i am famous Edit 2:- lol, read the replies. A whole ww3 going down there.... Boom!
To improve the efficiency of the engine, you could create instead of the showerhead/brass tube design, use a series of impinging injectors, it would be really easy to manufacture such an injector plate with 3D printing. For the KMno4, maybe look into seeing if it could be mixed with aerogel, it's lightweight, has an incredible amount of surface area and would make a great video, even if it might not work.
Hey, Integza, I'm a Mad Scientist too. This video is so impressive I'm willing to collaborate with you a little. Not quite as good, but baker's yeast also splits the peroxide explosively, yielding Ox. (I haven't tried a catalytic converter). The best way to concentrate peroxide is to freeze dry it, preferably by vacuum boiling it until all the water is gone or frozen. For more thrust, use a Steam Extractor by aspirating water at the output. Something else too, but no point in jabbering all day.
I think It would be funny if you made a rocket engine out of tomatoes. Or, instead build a ICBM, *ahem* I mean rocket that has a payload of tomatoes to rain upon your fellow scientist enemy's. I think it would make Nikola Tesla proud.
For absolute wild surface area and absorbtion with a material that won't combust, have you considered 3D printing ceramic zeolite molecular sieves? Can be done from a slurry state with FDM printing, and sintering. If you wanna sinter it and still want really high flow-through, you can get a 2 or 3 part mould made to go in a regular workshop hydraulic press. This approach would mean having a mould made for 1-2 inch long segments, that stack and index into eachother precisely and snugly. For "optimal" "mesh" size and density (thinking small thin-walled honeycomb design), and decent component length, the interior shaping mould will require quite high precision machining. To get the relief angles spot on for all those very thin rods that form the flow-through voids in the output component (moulding such fine features will definitely require relief angles for it to demould intact). This would be extremely expensive and almost impossible to do with CNC, but interestingly enough it could actually be quite easy and fairly reasonably priced using EDM. Because if you're going with honeycomb shape, the geometry of those rods means the "cuts" will line up straight through the part from one side to the other. It won't be a cheap mould, but once you have it, making segments using it will be fast, easy and fairly cheap. And with proper care, that mould should last you thousands of cycles. Either way you can start off 3d printing the slurry for running trials, to see if the material has the properties you need. There are a few papers on this, a starter can be found googling: _"Extrusion-Based 3D Printing of Molecular Sieve Zeolite for Gas Adsorption Applications"._
Connect a dehumidifier to a standalone freezer. As the air inside the freezer dries, it will become very thirsty. Dry air at any fregid temperature lower than the room temp peroxide solution (on a stir plate) will quickly suck nearly all the water out.
Little tip if you want to conentrate even more your H2O2, you can use 2 erlenmeyers linked together with tube on the top (so the air communicate but not the liquid), one filled with your H2O2 to be concentrated, and the other one filled with liquid dessicant (like calcium chloride, very easy to find) and only heating the H2O2. This will fasten the process and also take out even more water of the hydrogen peroxide
Gotta correct you, decompression is indeed a chemical reaction, in fact you can see the change of colour from Mn7+ to Mn4+ and the MnO2 produced by the reduction catalyzes the decompression of H2O2 further
A Series of leading questions: 1. If you take a closed hollow tube, fill it with a liquid, and then spin it with its length as the axis, *What happens to the liquid?* It will eventually share that spin momentum. I.E. will be concetrated at the wall, less at the middle. 2. What if... On that inner wall, there was... *Texture* that increased the surface area of the wall? *It would cause far more friction with the water, thus turbulence, and make that momentum sharing far faster.* 3. Now, untill now it was implied that the *texture* is just on the Inside Peripherial Wall. Well. How about the inside of the ends? Same texture there? *The momentum share will be faster there. The liquid for a time, will be flung faster to the peripherial wall.* 4. Now what if, one of those inner ends is smooth? *until it stabalizes, at one end there will be a greater pressure diferencial at one end than the other, and it will cause for a time, a flow cycle. Along the peripherial wall at one direction, and back in the middle space.* 5. What, in that case also happens along that wall? With the texture? *It's still sharing momentum.* Only this time, the wall, and thus the tube itself, is absorbing that one direction momentum. All other interactions in that vector neutralize each other. ... As I do not see anyone else talking about this option. Would you mind testing it? Edit: for the *texture;* I usually think bristles. At the peripharial wall, they are supposed to lean toward the end with the texture. Two reasons: gyroscopic effect- the spin itself make them lean *down* which pushes the tube at the intended direction. And the second reason is that the liquid's interaction with it will creat a much greater *push.* And the inner wall at the end bristles: straight out(in). For basically the same reason.
Hey Integza! Looks awesome! Thank you so much for exploring chemical deposition of metals in your videos! I think you should try to make a particle accelarator about physics!
hello and happy new years from new zealand!!! suggestion for fast evaporation just sit a fan on the top of open container blowing up and away from container but with enough room under fan to allow air convection current to draw from top of liquid.. takes a while but its cold no heat tho if slightly warmed will work faster..but at least you can leave in corner for a few days and won't cause any issues!
Look into investment casting for wax. Then take those techniques and replace the investment plaster with your permangenate plaster and create negative of the desired combustion chamber (less walls) out of wax. Then pour your permangenate plaster around the wax and burn off the wax so you now have a more ideal combustion chamber with higher contact surface area. Also maybe inject the OH into the chamber at varying points in the chamber and have feedback loop comping from the chamber to apply pressure to the OH reservoir so the motor can drive itself.
I believe it was T-Stoff where a large part of creating the fuel was fermenting potatoes, amounting to about 32,000 potatoes per V2 launch, which is great for a starving country to launch relatively inaccurate and weak ICBM's at civilian targets.
Decomposition is also chemical reaction, even if there is no catalizator at all. And the catalizator is always part of the reaction. First it reacts, then a later reaction step regenerates it.
Just gotta say I haven’t seen anyone say this. A decomposition is still a chemical reaction. Non reversible but still a reaction. 2KMnO4 + H2O2 -> 2 MnO2 +2 O2 + 2 KOH. Love your vids keep up the good work. So cool to see how far you have come.
When you were putting the plaster mix into the tube I had a thought. Why not have a piece of paper or plastic set down, spread the mix over that to get a smooth finish, and then before it hardens you slowly roll it into the tube and set it in there. That might give you a more consistant layer. You could then do multiple cylinders of the material of various sizes in order to get multiple tubes inside other tubes to maximize surface area. Put all that together into a tube and make an engine out of that. Hope this inspires you.
Decomposition is definitely a type of chemical reaction: the manganese is permanganate acts as a catalyst. A REDOX reaction is also occurring where Mn+7 is reduced to Mn+4 by peroxide, and some oxygen in the peroxide is oxidized from O-1 to O2 gas. This is evident by the color change from dark purple to brown.
I bet you could speed up the concentration process by using a vacuum chamber. Reduce the pressure until the water cold-boils but the h202 doesn't. This also has the benefit that, as the water evaporates and then boils, it gets even colder. That should let you rapidly remove the water from an h202 solution without decomposing the important stuff.
It seems like a really good design would avoid exceeding the melting-point of KMnO4 while exceeding 100C, preferably hitting somewhere around 150C, where you'd have super-heated steam. Historically, the basic reaction and applications (usually military) have been around a long time- IIRC, it was first used in torpedoes, to drive the shafts. Surely the engineers involved were pretty careful about how high temperatures got and you can probably find information about how this was done. The right answer might be that, instead of shooting largish amounts of hydrogen peroxide and water out through your syringe, instead use something like a shower-head, with each outlet going into a small metal tube containing KMnO4 mixed with a material that won't dissolve in water, preferably with fins on the tube or something else (like a water jacket) to keep heat from exceeding 150C until the engine has finished running. The key idea here is that only a small amount of hydrogen peroxide is reacting with any given tube at once, keeping heat controlled. What you're seeing in your experiments is what happens when the temperatures get too high and the KMnO4 breaks down into chemistry that's non-catalytic. I'm also somewhat concerned for your safety running this experiment; if you achieve high-enough energy with this reaction but any "gunk" jams the rocket's exhaust, you've just built a pretty energetic pipe bomb.
Hey, I was messing around with this myself too and found that the easiest way for me to concentrate H2O2 was by freezing it. hang on. I know it sounds stupid but at different concentrations different parts freeze at different temperatures. So it's pretty easy to concentrate 3% to around 70-80%. Just put it in the freezer and keep shaking it every 15 minutes once it begins to freeze. You want the water to freeze from multiple points not from the outside in and you bassically want an ice mesh that the concentrated H2O2 can easily pour out of. By messing with different concentrations, temperatures, and freezing conditions you can basically have the ice freeze and push out the H2O2 that you then pour off. You might also try molecular sieves but I havent tried that before.
For layering the plaster fuel, rather than paint the inside of the tuber, print or obtain a smaller tube, paint the OUTSIDE of that, with much excess, then push that into the larger tube (maybe have a socket so it sits perfectly centered. Then remove the centre tube and u have a perfectly formed layed of the plaster on the inside of the larger tube with a uniform thickness. Or Create a two part mould where the plaster can harden, and then simply slot it into the tube.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Get Nebula using my link for 40% off an annual subscription: go.nebula.tv/integza
Ok
I got one for my brother on his birthday and he loves it! Thanks ❤
Got the Rotary one its really good quality 👌
Why don't you make v2 rocket powered car
BRING. BACK. THE. MOUSTACHE.
I like the foam + KMnO4 mix. Very simple. The downside that I notice is that it burns up, and I doubt you're getting full use of the O2 from that tiny amount of foam fuel. If you want to get that hybrid rocket effect I think it would be better to have a non consumable catalyst and a solid fuel further down the line. For a similar material to your flower foam that is less prone to combustion you might want to look into intercalated graphite. It's possible to intercalate graphite with KMnO4 and I bet it would make an excellent catalyst in that state. There's a paper I replicated at one point that turned graphite powder into an excellent low density foam titled: "One-step room-temperature preparation of expanded graphite". A little KMnO4 in the mix would probably make it into an excellent catalyst, though perhaps too fragile. Another option might be to follow any number of intercalation methods mixing a little KMNO4 into concentrated sulfuric acid, and soaking graphite in the mix for an hour or so. A very durable, flame resistant, and porous option that might make a good catalyst is treating carbon felt in this way. Carbon felt is a wonder material in it's own right and might work for your purposes as is once soaked and dried in KMnO4 solution.
I'm curious what the actual reaction is here. Like, is it just a physical reaction with the shape of the KMnO4? Or is it used up some how in the reaction?
Thank you for the advice Ben ! Can you please send me the paper ? integza@gmail.com
@@integza Will do!
You seem to be well informed.
Could you use hydrogen peroxide as a regenerative coolant?
Pulse jets get stupid hot and it just goes to waste.
If you ran fuel rich in the combustion chamber and then had the highly oxygenated steam go into the exhaust, it should sort of act like an afterburner.
At least that's my hypothesis.
Would you even need a catalyst then? Would heat just do the job?
@@integza The channel Explosions and Fire or Extractions and Ire (i cant remember which) has a great video about concentration peroxide. You might be able to use some of his methods.
If you want to take this concept further, I would suggest you try to get in contact with Eric Teboul. He's a European drag racer that was running a hydrogen peroxide powered rocket bike for 20+ years up until he retired at the end of 2022. He managed to run a 4.9 second 290MPH pass over the 1/4 mile on the last run before he retired. If anyone could possibly help you improve it, it's probably him.
Isn't decomposition one of the 5 type of chemical reactions🤔? Intezga must've meant its *not a combination reaction* , the type of reaction found in combustion💥.
Video Suggestion: attach a turbine and propeller on the exhause of a rocket to increase thrust, similar to a turboprop/fan in planes.✈️
Of corse it is a chemical reaction
@@WochenendNerds, yea he misspoke, a small price for being multi lingual
Any thing done is a reaction...everthing is a reaction until you get to a carbon atom...oh wait theres reactions there to lol.
Gaffs like that happen when you're tomato-deficient
He means it's not a reaction between the two ingredients.
A) SOOO nice of you to give Backyard Ballistics a shoutout! That guys is both entertaining and adorable.
B) You absolutely NEED to effectively use up the excess oxygen. Try giving the flour foam a bit of alcohol, or go back to a liquid mix system where the permanganate is dissolved in alcohol.
@integza, you can try vacuum distillation to concentrate the H2O2 solution. You can then probably use a temperature close to room temperature (around 30C) to boil off the water out of the H2O2.
I was wondering if you could use a vacuum chamber to accelerate the process.
Came here to say the same thing
Yep, thats exactly what I was thinking. STP, vacuum chamber at lower temp, or higher temp.
....
Will also change temp at which H2O2 will boil, so may cause decomposition... not sure how those bonds break, from boiling or from temperature... maybe the same process.
Im not a chemist.
I think vacuum distillation is certainly a good idea. However, as most medium and low-vacuum pumps are oil displacement devices, I would also invest in any sort of a cold trap (could also be dry ice + alcohol if you don't have easy access to liquid nitrogen) to condense and trap the distilled water befores it pollutes the vacuum pump's oil.
I was about to comment the same thing. It would work just like a refrigeration system.
If you want to concentrate the h202 better, check out Explosions and Fire, a couple of years ago Tom has concentrated it to 100% and then took it further.
He took it possibly further than his sanity deserved 😂
How do you go further than 100% ?
103% ?
That makes sense.
That makes -107% sense.
I 251% trust your math number that insists concentration can go "further" than 100%
That is 726% güd logik
Math demon is my co pilot
you've improved a lot. you went from recreating existing designs, to designing and creating a brand new type of rocket all on your own. this is real science. as Cave Johnson from the Portal franchise said, "science isn't about 'WHY?', it's about 'WHY NOT?'!"
Apature Science. We do what we must because we can. For the good of all of us. Except the ones who are dead.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying 'till you run out of cake. And the science gets done and you make a neat gun for the people who are still alive. 😅❤
Great video! I did catch that 1.5 ml vs 250 ml is 233 times the expansion. It is even greater the open volume of the mixing chamber's volume was not factored in- definitely 250-350 expansion. This is a slower expansion than gunpowder but still very powerful. A gunpowder explosion is instantaneous being quite destructive. This expansion is slow and not so destructive unless the gasses were trapped in a container that can hold the pressure. A gunpowder rocket burns gunpowder slower than a bullet propelling it over time but still a relatively short time for burning. The pressurization of gunpowder accelerates its burn speed. In open air gunpowder burns slowly, almost as long as this chemical reaction rate. In a rocket pressure is released out a nozzle to prevent blowing up by too great and more instantaneous explosion. The nozzle is designed with enough open a nozzle or opening on one end to prevent over pressurization and instant explosion. As a kid I learned that there is a ration of 1/3 to 1/2 of the inner explosion chamber that the gas must have to prevent explosion. Too much pressure on the fuel not released will blow up the fuel chamber.
@Integza, you might find molecular sieves particularly useful for drying and concentrating hydrogen peroxide. It’s used to make products anhydrous all the time. You would need quite a lot of them, and they are reusable.
Nope, they catalyse decomposition.
You may want to try that evaporation under slight vacuum, given lower pressure it might speed up the time it takes to concentrate
That's exactly what I was gonna say. At 60 °C and say half an atmosphere it would probably go a lot faster. Probably could get to significant concentrations that way too.
Agreed. The lower pressure lowers the boiling point.
This was exactly what I wanted to write! with a good vacuum pump you can effectively evaporate water even at room temperature
Do need to not lower the pressure so much that the peroxide boils off too though. Check the phase diagrams for water and peroxide and find the spot where they're furthest apart for best results.
I tried this, I put the chemicals in my vacuum cleaner and did not work.
Very messy.
My wife is angry and everything is purple.
Fantastic video, as always! Have you considered utilizing the oxygen generated from this reaction for a second stage? It could burn additional butane, potentially squeezing out more thrust.
Or you could even pump butane into the active reaction and use it to further excite the burning and further expand the gasses
This is what I thought he was going to do by looking at the thumbnail as peroxide rockets have been around for a while.
@@geofrancis2001 i know he basically did that last video when he introduced the concept of a "dual propulsion rocket", except he just burned the raw oxygen and products. Adding more fuel (butane) would make it even stronger than his original concept in LAST video
@@MichanaAlerting it woudlnt have to be butane, the steam should be hot enough to ignite solid fuel.
@@MichanaAlertingsort of an afterburner?
@Integza Here is a concept for getting better contact between the peroxide and the catalyst:
When you cast plaster, insert a bunch of corkscrew shaped pieces of steel (such as a stretched out thin springs, coated in mold release spray if needed, or perhaps literal cork screws). Then, when the plaster is hardened, remove these corkscrew shapes by unscrewing them out of the plaster. Then, inject the peroxide into these corkscrew shaped channels. As the decomposition happens, any liquid that gets pushed by the released gases won't just shoot out of the channel like it would with a straight hole; any liquid droplets propelled by the gases would much more likely slam into the wall of the helical hole, enabling it to react with the catalyst.
Try this and see if it doesn't result in more efficient use of your peroxide.
Integza, I think that if you ground the potassium permanganate into a fine powder, it could then be used as a paint base to spray into the mixture/reaction chamber. This would allow a chamber filled with catalyst coated rods running the length of the chamber. These rods may increase the surface area enough to react quickly. Another option is to coat the injection tubes as well.
Permanganate is a fine powder. You clearly never worked with it.
When I bought it, it was incredibly fine powder.
As long as you don't buy it from a fountain and pond supply shop, where it is impure and 30% grey colored, it should be powder.
Buy from reputable chemical supply shop and it will be fine powder.
No grinding necessary.
Don't buy it from Todd JoeButt Jr, behind the McDonald's dumpster.
Genuinely love how you don't just gloss over details and just tell everything how it is. In terms of catalyst, what if you used acid to etch away silver so that the surface becomes pitted and exposes more area? Kinda like activated charcoal. And speaking of activated charcoal, how does it work with peroxide? I was surprised coconut coal can decompose it
turning wood into coal concentrates a bunch of the solids a tree has...and since every living organism has metal ions in their bodies i presume a bunch of them during the process gets reduced just like in ash from a firepit (the first soaps were made using ash as the catalist for the saponification)...and since coal has a bunch of small pores increasing it's surface, it acts pretty much like paladium on carbon with the small deposits of teeny tiny metal particles...now does any charcoal works? idk...now what i can assume is that since coconut is a seed that the tree pours a lot of nutrients into (including metals from the soil) for the seed to be viable upt to 3 years after detaching from the tree, the concentration of metals on coconut charcoal could be higher than other commonly used charcoals...
Soo Hydrogen Peroxide decomposition over a catalyst is classified as a monopropellant and was used in (among other things) the attitude control thrusters of the mercury capsule (though over a silver catalyst). But there is a flaw in your thinking of using KMnO4 as a decomposition catalyst. KMnO4 is not a catalyst for the decomposition of Hydrogen Peroxide, it actually reacts with it. The equation goes something like: 3 H2O2 + 2KMnO4 -> 3 O2 + 2 MnO2 + 2 KOH + 2 H2O (whomever wants to discuss balancing of redox equations feel free but this is about principle). The MnO2 that is formed (also called "Braunstein" = "Brown Stone") is what's actually catalytically active in the decomposition of H2O2 and this is also what the brown sludge in the exhaust of your previous rockets was. So you should investigate if you want to use a stoichiometric mixture of KMnO4 and H2O2 for your rocket or if you want to try a catalyst bed from MnO2 or if you should continue on the silver catalyst. By the way H2O2 has a specific impulse of 117s at sea level (half that of hydrazine) and the lowest concentration I found for propellant formulation was 75%. Also you should check out Tom at Explosions and Fire for tips on safety when it comes to concentrated hydrogen peroxide.
An option you could do as a middleground option that's both accessible and interesting for your foam + KMn04 strategy is to create a carbon foam using bread. AvE did a video on it years ago, and it might work for your strategy. Hilariously enough, one of the topics you'd need to figure out would be the optimal bread to use to have the best crumb structure to absorb the KMnO4 and react with the peroxide. Would a dense foam from the dense crumb of a japanese milk bread be optimal or would an airy open crumb from a ciabatta or even airier with pan de cristal be best?
Either way, super easy thing to test, it's as simple as getting bread! Also depending on the results, you could possibly even put the carbon foam to be milled as you did the flower foam. Probably not with an airy bread, but the japanese milk bread can have an incredibly dense and fluffy crumb, especially if you do the method when its baked in a lidded bread pan.
Also fun fact, I accidentally discovered the ability to concentrate peroxide in highschool where I had filled a bowl with it for something with regular household peroxide, but forgotten to dump it and it sat on a shelf for a few months. I found the near-empty dish and dumped it, but accidentally touched the tip of my thumb to the small amount of remaining fluid. Over the next couple hours, half my thumb was white and it bloody hurt like crazy.
Integza
If you put the charcoal in a pressurised steam cooker you get activated charcoal. Cody's lab has a video on it.
it's important to note that, while is wasn't made clear in this video, the V2 **is not** an hydrogen peroxide rocket, it has hydrogen peroxide driven turbopumps, but the main thruster was an ethanol-lox engine.
I think he did actually say that.
@@thedogfather5445 yes, he did say that the pumps were driven by hydrogen peroxide, but I don't remember him talking about the main thruster propellant, which is why I made this clarification. the video is otherwise very good.
Hey Integza! Looks awesome! I was thinking something that could help the design would be an improved injector. This goes along with what you said about surface area, where if you can maximize the contact between the peroxide and the catalyst you should get better results. Maybe an injector that does a better job of atomizing the peroxide rather than spraying jets of it directly into the catalyst would be beneficial? I also thought the charcoal/ceramic idea was really awesome and pursuing this could have some interesting results. I think early H2O2 rockets used pellets of catalyst in a chamber, so the chunks of charcoal might be the right idea, trying mixtures with permanganate and maybe some other additives would be awesome. In future videos I'd love to see improvements on this and maybe one day combustion of the oxygen product to make a bipropellant rocket! Keep it up!
To concentrate the peroxide, maybe try to do what Tom from Explosions&Fire did, which is using sulphuric acid to dehydrate peroxide. Took him months, but it's worth a try.
I remembered that as well but what he is doing here already seems much better
Would just pulling a Vacuum and boiling it at 60° be possible?
I had success vacuum distilling H2O2. ruclips.net/video/kmWmbz5CPvA/видео.htmlsi=QGgsW80xMm4kFG-P
Also just made a similar comment. First thing that came to mind.
Reactions only happen at the interfaces, which is why meshes/foams work better. You need to give the same attention to peroxide. Improve the injector so the peroxide droplet sizes are smaller and you will get a more violent reaction.
Really great video, as always! Perhaps a bit of a change from your usual content (but still in line with your channel theme), I would love to see you build a Tesla Egg of Columbus. They are so cool and I can't find a tutorial for one anywhere. Seems like a fun thing to have around to demonstrate Tesla's induction motor. Anyway, thanks for your hard work on these videos!
4:47 Star Trek has a patent on that. It was in the Season 2 episode "The Doomsday Machine," aka the planet killer.
Beaver Town sounds like a fun place to live ?
Any beavers there ?
I like bev'rs
Beevurs
Bivers
Bei-vurs
Bvrz
1:16 Chemist here, a decomposition is a type of chemical reaction.
I'm happy that even when my days aren't going so well, the Portuguese space program keeps moving along.
Hi integza! I think you are getting there! BUT, be careful with the H2O2 concentration. As you concentrate it, you need to keep a certain level of “stabilizers” in it. If not, it could spontaneously combust. That is why high concentration H2O2 is considered so dangerous. I suspect you already know this but just for everyone else, this stiuf can get nasty if you don’t know what you are doing with it. So be very careful and don’t do this in the house and make sure you know the chemistry properly (with the stabilizers) or you could get a nasty surprise from this stuff. And that assumes you do all the handling properly (everything ultra clean because just a dust spec can act as a catalyst to set it all off). Cool, and looking forward to the next version!
As an aid to visualising the results have a look at the damaged caused to the very heavy duty facilities built in WW2 by the Germans. Tino Struckmann shows the damage on his many documentaries on Lost Battlefields.
Got to correct your intro... As a chemistry teacher decomposition is a chemical reaction! Below are all the standard common reactions:
Combination Reaction (also known as Synthesis Reaction): A + B → AB
Decomposition Reaction: AB → A + B
Single-Replacement Reaction: A + BC → AC + B
Double-Replacement Reaction AB + CD → AD + CB
Combustion Reaction: C[X]H[Y] + O2 → CO2 + H2O (hydrocarbon reacting with oxygen to make carbon dioxide and water while giving off heat... note this is only the common combustion formula as you could also generalize it as any fuel mixing with any oxidant, but for high school chemistry we stick with hydrocarbons as the fuel and oxygen as the oxidant)
The rocket belt you mentioned in this video. I did the machine work on the engine parts. The catalyst pack in the engine was silver plated stainless screen material. If I remember some kind of stainless steel screen. But it was all heat treated in an oven somehow. I’m not exactly sure of the process. (Not the part I did). But it was very tightly packed requiring a press to do this. Then the engine was welded together. The hydrogen peroxide they used was distilled from 50% solution in a special lab/trailer they built. A very, very, very dangerous thing to do. If I were you I wouldn’t do it. But it’s up to you. Anyway on the rocket belt there was a high pressure vessel containing 6000 psi of nitrogen (if I remember) that pushed the hydrogen peroxide solution into the catalyst pack in the engine. This expanded into two tubes that exited thru nozzles (Designed by my friend). On the end of these nozzles we’re sort of flow directors that could divert the flow for spinning the rocket in the vertical axis. The whole belt/engine hung on a hemi joint on the pilots hack which he controlled by the two handles you see in you video. The whole flight time was around 60 seconds. The pilot had a vibrating devise on his wrist that alerted him of how much time he had remaining left to land. This thing was mainly flown in stunt shows at stadiums as an opening event type of thing. The test flight I saw the thing was very loud. Like a jet plane taking off. The guy that flew it must have had ball of steel. Because when you run out of fuel you fall!
I did some looking and found that enhancing the concentration of hydrogen peroxide through evaporation is most effectively achieved in a vacuum. Also, molecular sieves can potentially get the concentration to between 70-80%. However, it's important to note that hydrogen peroxide often contains stabilizers that might disrupt certain processes. Apparently, the highly concentrated hydrogen peroxide used in rocket propellants is formulated with specialized stabilizers that do not hinder its application. It's not exactly a suggestion for a show topic, but I hope this counts. Good luck!
📷Video Idea: Would love to see you exploring how to make engines more efficient in terms of the ratio between consumption x thrust 🍅
isn't that endstage maximizing of thrust?
Try boil the solution in a vacuum, so the boiling point of water gets so low it won't decompose the hydrogen peroxide.
Thanks for the cool videos,
Maybe 60degrees temp and some vacume would be worth trying.
A rocket using all the oxygen from the decomposition would be a nice video idea. There will be even more heat and a faster jet at the nozzle.
Better bellow 55°C under 120milibar vaccum pressure to make sure its not decompossing. Dont ask me how i knew it.
Who else thinks this channel becomes more and more like a real life Rick and Morty show? I love it.
Cool video!!! Using steam to power an RC airplane's propeller could be an interesting experiment. Something, you could try out in the future: building a jet engine that has a hole in it. Let me explain: Similar to your Dyson engine, it could have a hole running through the middle to increase the output thrust. However, this time, instead of building the compressor into the handle, you could build it around the hole itself, so you don't need a handle anymore. I've been thinking about this concept for a while after watching your video and would love to see this peculiar jet engine in action!
Use a block of Chalk (climbing/weightlifting chalk) instead of foam, it'll absorb an enormous amount of Potassium Permanganate.
As always, Great video, and fun idea! I'm actually thinking about buying a 3d-printer this weekend so i'm looking forward to following in your footsteps. I also have a videoidea for you: Please team up with Peter sripol and make one of your rockets actually fly! You could mount it on a low speed plane, but I want to see if you could create and actually fly a jet-plane
Or make a challenge for other creators out of it on who can go highest in his rocket
just be careful lol dont get plastic shrapnel stuck all over urself
Next video: Build a more advanced low bypass turbofan jet engine, with at least 2 shafts, with afterburner, use also VGV's and NGV's (Variable Guide Vanes and Nozzle Guide Vans) for better performance. And use it in a jet plane. Work very hard in it for it to have great thrust (above 60kg thrust) and good efficiency.
BTW, love your content, and it's first time i ever find a Portuguese person in RUclips making interesting content. (I'm also Portuguese)
Have you looked at molecular sieve for concentrating the H2O2 or would it also cause it to decompose?
That is quite interesting.. ive seen NileRed used it alot.. And Yes i look it up and it works.. i donno to how much degree it will but it does works
It works on etanol so maybe works with h2o2 but wouldnt it easily reach 100%? I know that the molecular sieves i used in school did not burn so i think its save to do. ( i dont know how tight water is in h2o2, sorry multilingual problem if this does not make sense)
@@Hnkka it is a decomposition reaction not an oxidation reaction so the concerns are different. Molecular sieves work by having fissures in the surface sized so that the target contaminates adhere to them, in most cases it's water. Because the molecular size of H2O and H2O2 are so close it might not work, but the bigger issue is that the high surface area might also give reaction sites for the H2O2 to decompose. Activated charcoal works in a similar way to molecular sieves and in this video he used charcoal as a catalyst for decomposition of the H2O2. I am unsure if the reason charcoal works as a catalyst is because of it's surface area or because of it's carbon content.
thank you for making me smarter@@Zanthum
If you use 3Å molecular sieves it might work. That extra oxygen increases the size of the molecule significantly. Water molecules are just barely small enough to fit into to pores of 3Å MS, so hydrogen peroxide molecules absolutely wouldn’t fit. However, the sieves are made of a type of clay called zeolites. Zeolites contain metals, and metals cause the peroxide to decompose. The only why to know for sure is to try it. The sieves naturally bubble a little when absorbing stuff because air is displaced, but if the peroxide is decomposing a lot of oxygen will be released.
Instead of coconut charcoal, you could also use Toilet paper charcoal, I've heard its one of the best charcoal's there is some hobbyists use it to make good quality gunpowder.
What an awesome concept! I’ve worked at spacex for 8.5 years, first as an engine technician, now as an analyst. I’ve worked hand in hand with test engineers for years and have been sharing your videos with some of them, specifically ones that have worked previously with 3d printed propellants
Integza: "I want to make a V2 Rocket"
London: [Breathing Nervously]
Would love to see you build a Jet engine Glider! :)
this one is my favorite so far, you are actually a genius.
Integza you should try to build a valved pulse jet and compare the efficiency to your old valveless jet
This is really cool. One thing I often try to figure out is how to build a large rotating vessel into space for under $100K. So far, my best concept is in a pizza cutter shape. The outer wheel is made of fiberglass and spins very rapidly holding hot water. The spin and heat are the energy storage used to power the hot plate to steam the water, as it flows out the pizza cutter handle. An electric generator sits at the center (drawing power off the spin). The spin also pushes the water down a tube that flows down the pizza cutter handle to the hot plate just before the exhaust nozzles. The exhaust nozzles only need to gimbal on one axis because the spin of the wheel holds the vertical orientation. The gimble is therefore generally turned against gravity to the wheel can spin against the pizza cutter handle. Water expands 1,600 times when it changes to a gas and it has a lot of mass so the thrust is quite strong. This vessel would look something like a big Ferris wheel. Yes. Water is heavy but a heavy propellant gives a lot of thrust and the energy storage has no weight at all, using this method--it's just heat a spin. I have some equations for this and I am convinced it is workable with a fair amount of room for the weight of the vehicle itself.
Does water expand into gas the same in space ?
I'm not convinced it does.
Not at all.
Give me the 100k and I will build you a large metal hamster wheel.
Idea for future video: make a thrust vectoring nozzle orrrr even cooler a rocket fueled with hydrogen ,also love your videos
I would love to see a hydrogen thruster ,i want to learn more about it and integza always explain things great
Right, "I see you struggling making an engine that is powerful enough... Why don't you make it more complicated?" 😉
@@SchwuuuuupA hybrid rocket blowing the output through a final chamber with mini CD ROM discs slightly spaced apart.
Could you use something like drying beads to absorb the water out of the H2O2?
I haven’t tried that, maybe I should give it a go 😁
Pretty cheap and easy to use, can get ethanol concentration up into the nineties, no idea if there's a pore size which works with H2O2, but would be a little surprised if not.
Hi Integza! Im getting a 3d printer later today! Love you man keep making awesome shit!
Hey integza, try making an Turboramjet/ Rocket ramjet jet engine. It works like a weaker turbojet at lower speeds and like ramjet when it takes off. It engages the ramjet part by essentialy using a secondary bi fuel rocket engine inside, which turns the turbine, which pulls more air into the main ramjet combustion chamber.
Now I'm wondering if activated charcoal is the best thing to adsorb the permanganate onto.
Also I'm assuming you must have stumbled onto it, but ExplosionsAndFire has a great video about concentrating hydrogen peroxide.
I came here to recommend the same video.
I would love to see a collab between tom and integza on this
Are you guys talking about the video where they freeze the h2o2 to concentrate it? I couldn't remember who was the person to do it that way...
@@Phred_PhlintstonerI honestly don't remember how the video went but that was my first thought to comment about that video
@@Phred_Phlintstoner kinda, he spent like 112 days or something to get it to 90ish percent before he froze it. Problem with freezing is that around 60% it forms something similar to an azeotrope in distillation. Fractional distillation under vaccuum is the way to go
and it only took three russian days
Great video!
I have suggestions for your next things to try. Musing more than anything else, but one extra step to the flower block
A material that has these properties is exactly what you need.
It transmits heat to clinging water so well it can boil ice water with sunlight.
I understand this material has more surface area than the famed coconut husk carbon.
Pyrolize it. Then heat it under pressure at 300C with nitric acid and iodine for 6 hours. Cool, open. Heat to 90C to drive off the nitric acid.
My geeky brain thinks this should be perfect.
Hi, could you try to make a rocket engine with liquid ergols like LH2/Lox. Thanks, your videos are awesome
Both are very hard to handle, especially lh2. Hydrogen atoms are so small they leak through solid metal
Thank you so much for exploring chemical deposition of metals in your videos! Your method of copper plating the electrode in the bladeless fan episode gave me the idea of using electroplating to make custom PCBs in my apartment workshop, and so far its working well!
Hi Integza, great video once again! I've been enjoying your content for quite a few years now and still love every video that comes out. Just a little mistake that I noticed in this one though. Regarding the V-bombs. Namely, it is not "Vergertungswaffe", but "Vergeltungswaffe". Vergeltung of course translating to retribution, or vengeance. Keep up the great and informative videos though!!
Maybe nothing but worth a try.
I know about some weird and not so intuitive way to remove water from alcohol without heat. The point is, you need to add a lot of salt into solution. Sounds weird, but salt is solvable in water, but not in ethanol. And so, water becomes a very salty brine that is much denser than ethanol, and this brine is forming a layer on the bottom, it becomes visible by naked eye. And than all you need to do is to carefully scoop the liquid from the top, wich will be mostly ethanol. The process than can be repeated several times to purify even more. If you put salt in almost pure alcohol, it won't dissolve, and will just stay as a solid in the bottom.
The point is, I have zero idea if hydrogen peroxide reacts with salt. And obviously if it does, it's not gonna work.
Still may be useful to keep in mind
C-stoff is not made of potassium permanganate, it was a mixture of several components consisting of (by weight) 57% methanol, 30% hydrazine hydrate, 12% water, and 1% potassium tetracyanocuprate, combined with high test hydrogen peroxide it created a hypergolic fuel which combusts at very high pressure and temperatures. Potassium permanganate mixed with H2O2 does not generate anywhere near enough heat and pressure to be used as a rocket fuel, and unless you inject fuel into the oxygen stream it will provide negligible thrust.
heres an idea for your nebula series, everyday astronaut has a pretty extensive set of videos covering how rocket engines work, even a family tree one, you could if you wanted to ask him for help on your one. just a thought
Two engines that have always fascinated me are the RAM Jet and SCRAM Jet engines designed for extreme high speeds with little oxygen. Might be interesting to see a hybrid pulse detonation SCRAM Jet engine.
Or a hydrogen peroxide powered rotating Detonation engine 😉
@@luigidavid8554 I like the way you think 🤔, That sounds awesome.
Integza!! Look into membrane distillation!! You can move water with just a temperature differential, so for example make the input side of the membrane distillation tank at say 40 or 50 C and the out side at 20 or 30 C (bigger difference is better) and you will get water moving across the barrier. Contact me if you want my little bit of knowledge on it, or if you want me to put you in contact with my professors from college who actually were researching it. It works by hydrophobic membranes basically causing the water to evaporate on one side of the membrane and travel along the heat gradient to then condense on the other side.
I used to make H202 rockets and distilled my own 90% peroxide using 50% food grade, a simple home built vacuum still and a halogen light bulb as a safe heat source. I could easily distill about 2 gallons of roughly 90% from 5 gallons of 50% in about a full day (you lose a lot with a crappy homebuilt still), but storing 90% peroxide is way more challenging than distilling it, stainless works, but 1060 aluminum containers are best.
Also, 99%+ pure silver screen works great as a catalyst with 90%+ H202, not so well for anything below 85%.
50% h2o2 is not "food grade" it is, melt your fingers grade. Do not drink it.
I drank bleach and crapped blood, it was very educational, because it taught me that drinking bleach causes you to crap blood.
I wrote a scientific paper on it, but Scientific American was not interested. They probably already had covered that topic. It's a popular thesis subject.
💩🩸
As a survivalist bushcrafter and camper I use potassium permanganate as a fire starter when using damp or wet wood or when its very windy and add it to powdered glucose and a couple of drips of water.
I'd like to see you make a self-propelling charcoal turbojet engine!!
Small correction. I assume this has been said before me but the KMnO4 does do a chemical reaction with the H2O2 it's a RedOx reaction 2KMnO4 + 3H2O2 > 2MnO2 + 2H2O + 3O2 +2 KOH. The decomposition in the other examples is also a chemical reaction 2H2O2 > 2H2O + O2. Now I am just a TA not a Studied Chemist but the coconut charcoal got me thinking how it would work with Active charcoal as it is used as a katalist in similar situations
Theme for future video!! Make a plasma powered ekranoplan and stick some tomatoes on it!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 Congratulations on 1M subs 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Edit:- I always like my own comment
Edit 1:- Ma, i am famous
Edit 2:- lol, read the replies. A whole ww3 going down there.... Boom!
Lol
See there, I have fooled you
Yaa'l are good
To improve the efficiency of the engine, you could create instead of the showerhead/brass tube design, use a series of impinging injectors, it would be really easy to manufacture such an injector plate with 3D printing. For the KMno4, maybe look into seeing if it could be mixed with aerogel, it's lightweight, has an incredible amount of surface area and would make a great video, even if it might not work.
integza makes tomato into rocket engine
Hey, Integza, I'm a Mad Scientist too. This video is so impressive I'm willing to collaborate with you a little. Not quite as good, but baker's yeast also splits the peroxide explosively, yielding Ox. (I haven't tried a catalytic converter). The best way to concentrate peroxide is to freeze dry it, preferably by vacuum boiling it until all the water is gone or frozen. For more thrust, use a Steam Extractor by aspirating water at the output. Something else too, but no point in jabbering all day.
Okay I can't help but imagine using a flash cotton instead of the flowering foam... That's would be interesting
we want a rocket, not a bomb.
Bravo adding Also elettromagnetismo to the Cloud from the exit maybe
I think It would be funny if you made a rocket engine out of tomatoes. Or, instead build a ICBM, *ahem* I mean rocket that has a payload of tomatoes to rain upon your fellow scientist enemy's. I think it would make Nikola Tesla proud.
For absolute wild surface area and absorbtion with a material that won't combust, have you considered 3D printing ceramic zeolite molecular sieves? Can be done from a slurry state with FDM printing, and sintering.
If you wanna sinter it and still want really high flow-through, you can get a 2 or 3 part mould made to go in a regular workshop hydraulic press. This approach would mean having a mould made for 1-2 inch long segments, that stack and index into eachother precisely and snugly. For "optimal" "mesh" size and density (thinking small thin-walled honeycomb design), and decent component length, the interior shaping mould will require quite high precision machining. To get the relief angles spot on for all those very thin rods that form the flow-through voids in the output component (moulding such fine features will definitely require relief angles for it to demould intact). This would be extremely expensive and almost impossible to do with CNC, but interestingly enough it could actually be quite easy and fairly reasonably priced using EDM. Because if you're going with honeycomb shape, the geometry of those rods means the "cuts" will line up straight through the part from one side to the other.
It won't be a cheap mould, but once you have it, making segments using it will be fast, easy and fairly cheap. And with proper care, that mould should last you thousands of cycles.
Either way you can start off 3d printing the slurry for running trials, to see if the material has the properties you need.
There are a few papers on this, a starter can be found googling: _"Extrusion-Based 3D Printing of Molecular Sieve Zeolite for Gas Adsorption Applications"._
You are a genius i think you should try on building iron man suit
Who supports this comment? Like!!
Connect a dehumidifier to a standalone freezer. As the air inside the freezer dries, it will become very thirsty. Dry air at any fregid temperature lower than the room temp peroxide solution (on a stir plate) will quickly suck nearly all the water out.
Hi
Little tip if you want to conentrate even more your H2O2, you can use 2 erlenmeyers linked together with tube on the top (so the air communicate but not the liquid), one filled with your H2O2 to be concentrated, and the other one filled with liquid dessicant (like calcium chloride, very easy to find) and only heating the H2O2. This will fasten the process and also take out even more water of the hydrogen peroxide
This needs more likes. Far better than the people suggesting vacuum detona- I mean distillation!
Gotta correct you, decompression is indeed a chemical reaction, in fact you can see the change of colour from Mn7+ to Mn4+ and the MnO2 produced by the reduction catalyzes the decompression of H2O2 further
That fellow on the hydrogen peroxide motorcycle in the video clip now is the founder of a company named "RocketLab".
His next project... Venus.
A Series of leading questions:
1. If you take a closed hollow tube, fill it with a liquid, and then spin it with its length as the axis, *What happens to the liquid?*
It will eventually share that spin momentum. I.E. will be concetrated at the wall, less at the middle.
2. What if... On that inner wall, there was... *Texture* that increased the surface area of the wall?
*It would cause far more friction with the water, thus turbulence, and make that momentum sharing far faster.*
3. Now, untill now it was implied that the *texture* is just on the Inside Peripherial Wall.
Well.
How about the inside of the ends? Same texture there?
*The momentum share will be faster there. The liquid for a time, will be flung faster to the peripherial wall.*
4. Now what if, one of those inner ends is smooth?
*until it stabalizes, at one end there will be a greater pressure diferencial at one end than the other, and it will cause for a time, a flow cycle. Along the peripherial wall at one direction, and back in the middle space.*
5. What, in that case also happens along that wall? With the texture?
*It's still sharing momentum.* Only this time, the wall, and thus the tube itself, is absorbing that one direction momentum.
All other interactions in that vector neutralize each other.
...
As I do not see anyone else talking about this option. Would you mind testing it?
Edit: for the *texture;* I usually think bristles. At the peripharial wall, they are supposed to lean toward the end with the texture. Two reasons: gyroscopic effect- the spin itself make them lean *down* which pushes the tube at the intended direction.
And the second reason is that the liquid's interaction with it will creat a much greater *push.*
And the inner wall at the end bristles: straight out(in). For basically the same reason.
11:05 with this model, it's more like a solid fuel booster since you can't reallu stop it after you trigger it.
Hey Integza! Looks awesome! Thank you so much for exploring chemical deposition of metals in your videos! I think you should try to make a particle accelarator about physics!
hello and happy new years from new zealand!!! suggestion for fast evaporation just sit a fan on the top of open container blowing up and away from container but with enough room under fan to allow air convection current to draw from top of liquid.. takes a while but its cold no heat tho if slightly warmed will work faster..but at least you can leave in corner for a few days and won't cause any issues!
you don't need permanganate, but manganese oxide 4 (MnO2)
Look into investment casting for wax. Then take those techniques and replace the investment plaster with your permangenate plaster and create negative of the desired combustion chamber (less walls) out of wax. Then pour your permangenate plaster around the wax and burn off the wax so you now have a more ideal combustion chamber with higher contact surface area.
Also maybe inject the OH into the chamber at varying points in the chamber and have feedback loop comping from the chamber to apply pressure to the OH reservoir so the motor can drive itself.
I’ve signed up for Nebula because of those two channels you listed. 😁 I’m super glad that you are joining Nebula as well.
I believe it was T-Stoff where a large part of creating the fuel was fermenting potatoes, amounting to about 32,000 potatoes per V2 launch, which is great for a starving country to launch relatively inaccurate and weak ICBM's at civilian targets.
Decomposition is also chemical reaction, even if there is no catalizator at all.
And the catalizator is always part of the reaction. First it reacts, then a later reaction step regenerates it.
este tipo esteve em portugal, e ainda foi ao continente para comprar agua oxigenada ahahahhahaha. I love your work Integza
Just gotta say I haven’t seen anyone say this. A decomposition is still a chemical reaction. Non reversible but still a reaction. 2KMnO4 + H2O2 -> 2 MnO2 +2 O2 + 2 KOH. Love your vids keep up the good work. So cool to see how far you have come.
When you were putting the plaster mix into the tube I had a thought. Why not have a piece of paper or plastic set down, spread the mix over that to get a smooth finish, and then before it hardens you slowly roll it into the tube and set it in there. That might give you a more consistant layer. You could then do multiple cylinders of the material of various sizes in order to get multiple tubes inside other tubes to maximize surface area. Put all that together into a tube and make an engine out of that.
Hope this inspires you.
Decomposition is definitely a type of chemical reaction: the manganese is permanganate acts as a catalyst. A REDOX reaction is also occurring where Mn+7 is reduced to Mn+4 by peroxide, and some oxygen in the peroxide is oxidized from O-1 to O2 gas. This is evident by the color change from dark purple to brown.
I bet you could speed up the concentration process by using a vacuum chamber. Reduce the pressure until the water cold-boils but the h202 doesn't. This also has the benefit that, as the water evaporates and then boils, it gets even colder. That should let you rapidly remove the water from an h202 solution without decomposing the important stuff.
Hi Integaza, could you make a nother video about that pulse jet engine that you made please ❤❤❤❤❤
It seems like a really good design would avoid exceeding the melting-point of KMnO4 while exceeding 100C, preferably hitting somewhere around 150C, where you'd have super-heated steam.
Historically, the basic reaction and applications (usually military) have been around a long time- IIRC, it was first used in torpedoes, to drive the shafts. Surely the engineers involved were pretty careful about how high temperatures got and you can probably find information about how this was done.
The right answer might be that, instead of shooting largish amounts of hydrogen peroxide and water out through your syringe, instead use something like a shower-head, with each outlet going into a small metal tube containing KMnO4 mixed with a material that won't dissolve in water, preferably with fins on the tube or something else (like a water jacket) to keep heat from exceeding 150C until the engine has finished running. The key idea here is that only a small amount of hydrogen peroxide is reacting with any given tube at once, keeping heat controlled. What you're seeing in your experiments is what happens when the temperatures get too high and the KMnO4 breaks down into chemistry that's non-catalytic.
I'm also somewhat concerned for your safety running this experiment; if you achieve high-enough energy with this reaction but any "gunk" jams the rocket's exhaust, you've just built a pretty energetic pipe bomb.
How to tell when it's a good day:
1. A new Integza video is available.
2. Nothing else needed at this point.
I like your multilingual translations, it made it easier to understand
Hey, I was messing around with this myself too and found that the easiest way for me to concentrate H2O2 was by freezing it. hang on. I know it sounds stupid but at different concentrations different parts freeze at different temperatures. So it's pretty easy to concentrate 3% to around 70-80%. Just put it in the freezer and keep shaking it every 15 minutes once it begins to freeze. You want the water to freeze from multiple points not from the outside in and you bassically want an ice mesh that the concentrated H2O2 can easily pour out of. By messing with different concentrations, temperatures, and freezing conditions you can basically have the ice freeze and push out the H2O2 that you then pour off. You might also try molecular sieves but I havent tried that before.
Sounds like how we make hard cider.
You are really crazy a person like you must be ultra legends😎😎
now this is real backyard science love it, verry educational :)
For layering the plaster fuel, rather than paint the inside of the tuber, print or obtain a smaller tube, paint the OUTSIDE of that, with much excess, then push that into the larger tube (maybe have a socket so it sits perfectly centered. Then remove the centre tube and u have a perfectly formed layed of the plaster on the inside of the larger tube with a uniform thickness. Or Create a two part mould where the plaster can harden, and then simply slot it into the tube.