I appreciate the links to Arnella Hobler and Dr. Cox. I've sampled a few of their videos and watched Ms. Hobler make scones--doesn't she know there's such a thing as a pastry cutter?--and there's plenty of information and analysis on their channels to fill in the hours for Jane Austen readers on rainy or snowy afternoons.
@@NerdyNurseReads Everyone has their own way of doing things, but I was a little surprised to see Ms. Hobler start blending the butter into the dry ingredients using her fingers. But maybe if I tried that, my scones would turn out as light and flakey as hers.
Given what you say about “Jane Austen and Crime”, I probably shouldn’t come to a final decision about “Mansfield Park” until I’ve read Susannah Fullerton’s book. But that won’t be anytime soon, as the local library doesn’t have a copy, and even if I were willing to spend the $50-plus to order a used paperback edition online, there’s no telling when it would arrive given the postal strike up here. I agree with you when you refer to the “maturity of ‘Mansfield Park’’. After “Pride and Prejudice” was published, Jane Austen wrote to her sister Cassandra that she thought her novel was “rather too light, and bright, and sparkling.” She wanted to write novels that were more adult and realistic in tone, and “Mansfield Park” is the result. I’ve stated my criticisms of “Mansfield Park” in your previous video about the novel earlier this year-and in your newsletter, too, I think-so I won’t repeat them here. Nevertheless, I still prefer “Emma” to “Mansfield Park” as it contains more of what we read Jane Austen for. You reaffirm your preference for “Mansfield Park”, but have you forgotten the Ick Factor of first cousins Edmund Bertram and Fanny Price marrying each other, which you raised in an earlier video? Speaking of Ick Factors, you mention one yourself when Mr. Knightley, who’s known Emma since she was born, tells her that he fell in love with her when she was 13-years-old. He would have been 29 at the time. You left out the next line, however, where Emma refers to Mrs. Weston having just given birth to a baby girl-who is referred to as “it”, not “she”, in one reference-and Emma jokes that she hopes Mr. Knightley won’t fall in love with Mrs. Weston’s baby daughter once she reaches the age of 13, by which time Mr. Knightley would be about 50. Ick! and double Ick! I share your disappointment that Emma and Harriet Smith drift apart as the novel winds down, and Harriet leaves Hartfield to become the wife of the prosperous farmer, Robert Martin. This is all the more regrettable, as I admired Emma’s egalitarian sentiments at the beginning of the story where she tries to persuade Harriet that her humble origins shouldn’t prevent her from aspiring to be the wife of a gentleman. At first, Jane Austen seems to be subverting the existing British class structure, but she concludes by supporting it, with the consolation to Harriet that Robert Martin will make a much better husband than the likes of Mr. Elton ever would.
It’s me-I’m some people, lol. I guess I need to read Jane Austen and Crime to fully understand where your deep appreciation for Mansfield Park comes from!
Dear Ms. Hobler: Please be assured that I meant no disrespect when I commented upon your hands-on technique of making scones. I do the same thing myself making pizza dough.
It's a minor quibble, but I don’t see Mr. Woodhouse as being quite so manipulative as you seem to find him. He genuinely believes everything he says about the hazards of sitting in drafts, rich food, and damp air, and the benefits of a steady diet of thin gruel for himself and everyone else. In fact, Mr. Woodhouse takes such good care of his health that Emma and Mr. Knightley could be well into their 40s and 50s respectively before they can finally set up their own family home. As for Jane Fairfax, I don’t find her to be such a compelling character, mainly because she is offstage for so much of the time, and we can only speculate about her thoughts and feelings. The dramatic episodes of her secret engagement to Frank Churchill and their subsequent arguments, Jane’s decision to break off the engagement, and their ultimate reconciliation are all reported to us after the fact, so they don’t have the same impact on the reader. Where the novel could have become really interesting would have been if Emma and Frank fell in love, thus being tortured by their own feelings for each other as well as the knowledge that they have betrayed Jane. I’m not sure how that situation could have been resolved, but perhaps it could have ended with Emma questioning how much she really cares for Jack, some doubts about his maturity, and Emma’s feeling of solidarity with Jane and not wanting to destroy her best chance of happiness and avoiding the penurious life of a governess. By her act of sacrifice and self-denial in quashing her love affair with Frank before it takes flight and becomes broadly known-except maybe to Mr. Knightley, who could suspect something was going on-Emma would develop as a character and earn our admiration and sympathy. As it is, I can understand your dissatisfaction with a novel where the main character ends her story exactly where she began, living at home with her father, with no real change to her situation except the fact of being married to an older man, whom she’s known all her life, and who is more of a permanent houseguest and ‘friend with benefits’ than a passionate, loving husband. I do feel badly for Jane because she is this young, beautiful, poised, and accomplished young woman, whom even Mr. Knightley esteems, yet she ends up in an unequal match of a marriage saddled with the man-child, Frank Churchill. As Mr. Knightley declares, “She deserves a better fate.” A couple of minor points … when Mr. Knightley proposes to Emma, he uses the same approach and similar phraseology to that which Shakespeare puts into the mouth of the English King Henry V when he is trying to persuade the French Princess Katherine to marry him in “Henry V”, a play Jane Austen would have known well. Also, at one point Frank Churchill and Emma are discussing Jane Fairfax’s appearance, and Frank declares, “Ladies can never look ill”, which reminded me of the scene in the recent film, “The Substance”, where Dennis Quaid tells Margaret Qualley, “Pretty girls should always smile!”
I don't think Mr. Woodhouse is intentionally manipulative but his obsessions do shape the behaviors of all around him. I feel like I want to hate him but I also want to hug him and wrap him in a blanket. Perhaps that's how his wins everyone over and people bend to his needs. You're right, I find Emma frustrating because as much as she is pushed an made to grow up during the course of the novel she really doesn't. She's basically a stagnant character. I think she gains some maturity but not enough to make me satisfied as a reader. Oh, in a previous comment you mentioned the cousins in Mansfield marrying and yes that is also icky. I would find both scenarios (Knightley and the first cousins) repulsive. I wonder if contemporary reads had a similar feeling or if this was more of a normal occurrence for them.
@@NerdyNurseReads I doubt Jane Austen's contemporaries had many qualms about first cousins marrying if property was involved, though it's an interesting topic to research. I suggested, a little tongue in cheek, in an earlier comment that the reason Mr. Knightley is keen on marrying Emma is because he wants to unite Hartfield with his own Donwell Abbey estate. With such a base of property and wealth, he could become a major player in the county, and perhaps run for Parliament, with the help of his brother in London, though Mr. Knightley actually doesn't strike me as that ambitious.
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I appreciate the links to Arnella Hobler and Dr. Cox. I've sampled a few of their videos and watched Ms. Hobler make scones--doesn't she know there's such a thing as a pastry cutter?--and there's plenty of information and analysis on their channels to fill in the hours for Jane Austen readers on rainy or snowy afternoons.
I never noticed her scone related antics but yes they're both wonderful channels! Hopefully Dr. Cox is better with a pastry cuter.
@@NerdyNurseReads Everyone has their own way of doing things, but I was a little surprised to see Ms. Hobler start blending the butter into the dry ingredients using her fingers. But maybe if I tried that, my scones would turn out as light and flakey as hers.
I agree with your notes on Lizzie Bennet and Emma...great video
Thx friend!
Given what you say about “Jane Austen and Crime”, I probably shouldn’t come to a final decision about “Mansfield Park” until I’ve read Susannah Fullerton’s book. But that won’t be anytime soon, as the local library doesn’t have a copy, and even if I were willing to spend the $50-plus to order a used paperback edition online, there’s no telling when it would arrive given the postal strike up here.
I agree with you when you refer to the “maturity of ‘Mansfield Park’’. After “Pride and Prejudice” was published, Jane Austen wrote to her sister Cassandra that she thought her novel was “rather too light, and bright, and sparkling.” She wanted to write novels that were more adult and realistic in tone, and “Mansfield Park” is the result. I’ve stated my criticisms of “Mansfield Park” in your previous video about the novel earlier this year-and in your newsletter, too, I think-so I won’t repeat them here. Nevertheless, I still prefer “Emma” to “Mansfield Park” as it contains more of what we read Jane Austen for. You reaffirm your preference for “Mansfield Park”, but have you forgotten the Ick Factor of first cousins Edmund Bertram and Fanny Price marrying each other, which you raised in an earlier video?
Speaking of Ick Factors, you mention one yourself when Mr. Knightley, who’s known Emma since she was born, tells her that he fell in love with her when she was 13-years-old. He would have been 29 at the time. You left out the next line, however, where Emma refers to Mrs. Weston having just given birth to a baby girl-who is referred to as “it”, not “she”, in one reference-and Emma jokes that she hopes Mr. Knightley won’t fall in love with Mrs. Weston’s baby daughter once she reaches the age of 13, by which time Mr. Knightley would be about 50. Ick! and double Ick!
I share your disappointment that Emma and Harriet Smith drift apart as the novel winds down, and Harriet leaves Hartfield to become the wife of the prosperous farmer, Robert Martin. This is all the more regrettable, as I admired Emma’s egalitarian sentiments at the beginning of the story where she tries to persuade Harriet that her humble origins shouldn’t prevent her from aspiring to be the wife of a gentleman. At first, Jane Austen seems to be subverting the existing British class structure, but she concludes by supporting it, with the consolation to Harriet that Robert Martin will make a much better husband than the likes of Mr. Elton ever would.
It really is a shame that Jane Austen and Crime is so difficult to get a hold of! I need more people to read it so we can talk about it.
It’s me-I’m some people, lol. I guess I need to read Jane Austen and Crime to fully understand where your deep appreciation for Mansfield Park comes from!
There's room for all Austen lovers over here! And I don't dislike Emma but I also don't love it.
🥰🥰🥰
Dear Ms. Hobler: Please be assured that I meant no disrespect when I commented upon your hands-on technique of making scones. I do the same thing myself making pizza dough.
@@TomBrzezicki No offence taken! I just follow a recipe that I like, the technique is not something I came up with myself 😊
It's a minor quibble, but I don’t see Mr. Woodhouse as being quite so manipulative as you seem to find him. He genuinely believes everything he says about the hazards of sitting in drafts, rich food, and damp air, and the benefits of a steady diet of thin gruel for himself and everyone else. In fact, Mr. Woodhouse takes such good care of his health that Emma and Mr. Knightley could be well into their 40s and 50s respectively before they can finally set up their own family home.
As for Jane Fairfax, I don’t find her to be such a compelling character, mainly because she is offstage for so much of the time, and we can only speculate about her thoughts and feelings. The dramatic episodes of her secret engagement to Frank Churchill and their subsequent arguments, Jane’s decision to break off the engagement, and their ultimate reconciliation are all reported to us after the fact, so they don’t have the same impact on the reader.
Where the novel could have become really interesting would have been if Emma and Frank fell in love, thus being tortured by their own feelings for each other as well as the knowledge that they have betrayed Jane. I’m not sure how that situation could have been resolved, but perhaps it could have ended with Emma questioning how much she really cares for Jack, some doubts about his maturity, and Emma’s feeling of solidarity with Jane and not wanting to destroy her best chance of happiness and avoiding the penurious life of a governess. By her act of sacrifice and self-denial in quashing her love affair with Frank before it takes flight and becomes broadly known-except maybe to Mr. Knightley, who could suspect something was going on-Emma would develop as a character and earn our admiration and sympathy.
As it is, I can understand your dissatisfaction with a novel where the main character ends her story exactly where she began, living at home with her father, with no real change to her situation except the fact of being married to an older man, whom she’s known all her life, and who is more of a permanent houseguest and ‘friend with benefits’ than a passionate, loving husband.
I do feel badly for Jane because she is this young, beautiful, poised, and accomplished young woman, whom even Mr. Knightley esteems, yet she ends up in an unequal match of a marriage saddled with the man-child, Frank Churchill. As Mr. Knightley declares, “She deserves a better fate.”
A couple of minor points … when Mr. Knightley proposes to Emma, he uses the same approach and similar phraseology to that which Shakespeare puts into the mouth of the English King Henry V when he is trying to persuade the French Princess Katherine to marry him in “Henry V”, a play Jane Austen would have known well. Also, at one point Frank Churchill and Emma are discussing Jane Fairfax’s appearance, and Frank declares, “Ladies can never look ill”, which reminded me of the scene in the recent film, “The Substance”, where Dennis Quaid tells Margaret Qualley, “Pretty girls should always smile!”
I don't think Mr. Woodhouse is intentionally manipulative but his obsessions do shape the behaviors of all around him. I feel like I want to hate him but I also want to hug him and wrap him in a blanket. Perhaps that's how his wins everyone over and people bend to his needs.
You're right, I find Emma frustrating because as much as she is pushed an made to grow up during the course of the novel she really doesn't. She's basically a stagnant character. I think she gains some maturity but not enough to make me satisfied as a reader.
Oh, in a previous comment you mentioned the cousins in Mansfield marrying and yes that is also icky. I would find both scenarios (Knightley and the first cousins) repulsive. I wonder if contemporary reads had a similar feeling or if this was more of a normal occurrence for them.
@@NerdyNurseReads I doubt Jane Austen's contemporaries had many qualms about first cousins marrying if property was involved, though it's an interesting topic to research. I suggested, a little tongue in cheek, in an earlier comment that the reason Mr. Knightley is keen on marrying Emma is because he wants to unite Hartfield with his own Donwell Abbey estate. With such a base of property and wealth, he could become a major player in the county, and perhaps run for Parliament, with the help of his brother in London, though Mr. Knightley actually doesn't strike me as that ambitious.