Remember that a lot of us watch this channel to learn. I think we’re fortunate to have Dixie who gives honest feedback on her experiences so we can learn from them. Also as she said some folks have different things in their packs to carry, so going lighter weight in the other gear will be more of a necessity for some than others, opening themselves up to different issues.
Always great to see Dixie's practical conversations about equipment. Zpacks Duplex is an excellent tent, but not for above tree line locations. It is drafty in general. Dyneema material is indeed very strong(strongest?), but this situation is more about the tent construction than the material. Areas above tree line particularly in the northern countries have different requirements than something like Appalachian trail in US or West Highland Way in Scotland. Different toys for different games. I just finished 10 days solo hike in Norway with Nemo Hornet 2P. I did save about 600 g compared to my Nemo Kunai 2P or 1300 g over Hilleberg Soulo , but since all my hike was above tree line I did have a few days when I wished I have a stronger tent. Weight of course was the only reason, 10 days of food supply was heavy enough. Be safe.
Hi Dixie, I made a Laugavegur hike this August and got in the same kind of storm. I also wanted to cut off some weight and therefore took my Big Agnes Tiger Wall 3 with me. It survived the night, no rain got inside. However, in the morning wind got stronger and one of the poles snapped. The reason was the construction of the tent, where all the load was put on a tiny lightweight pole section. This experience, your videos and videos of other guys who travelled ultralight in Iceland (they were using some Dyneema tent with tracking poles too, and their tent was down in the storm as well) made me think that such kind of tents is not suitable for Iceland and similar places. This is not about Dyneema or nylon, this is about the overall construction of the tent. All free-standing tents in our group survived the storm. Okay, we have fixed our tent with the repair tool like in your video and successfully finished our trek. But for the benefit of other hikers going to Iceland, I would recommend at least a free-standing tent. Yes, it might weigh some extra 600 grams, but it would save you from the extreme experience of fixing a tent on a stormy night. And yes, you have to put rocks on the pegs and secure all possible guy-lines in all possible places. Regarding the campsites, we've spent the first night at Landmannalaugar as you suggested and were supposed to have the second night at Álftavatn. When we arrived there, we were told by the staff that a storm was coming and we better go to the next campsite. So we had to go 5 km more, 26 in total and stayed at Hvanngil. That was the place where the storm hit our tent. So, if a proper storm is coming there is no place to hide, regardless is it in the mountains or not :-) Thanks for your videos and good luck!
I hiked there in 2021(late July/early August) and had no problems with the wind, using a trekking pole LanShan2 tent. Most people around me used freestanding ones, but I guess this was not necessarily by intention concerning the weather. There wasn't such a storm then. The strongest wind I had had until now was this year on the east flank of Mt Whitney, it may have been similar to the one we see in the video, and I also just had a tent peg snapping. Trekking pole tents are more stable than free standing ones - a trekking pole that can withstand my full weight will never break in a storm - but depend on the stability of the guy lines. I should have put more and bigger rocks on them ;)
@@Henning_Rech "Trekking pole tents are more stable than free standing ones" You'd assume people would use trekking pole tents around the arctic and antarctic conditions, where piteraq can occur, but to the contrary.
Dixie puts so much thought into topics and analyzes them so broadly. I love her mind. I’m not implying she’s always “right” but I can tell she’s an engineer. She loves hiking and I love watching her hike and gaining insights I can apply to my world ❤️.
Durston Gear: Since you're on here and paying attention I'd like to ask why no one seems to have made tent stakes that spiral so you can "screw" them into the ground? Thinking like the ones you can get to stake out your dog, for example, but lighter and maybe narrower in the actual spiral.
@@rumblechick73 Good question. Lawson Equipment did make a stake like this about 5 years ago but they don't sell stakes anymore. MSR has a stake with a bit of a twist (cyclone stake?) but I don't think it's meant to screw in. I wonder if a lot of dirt isn't strong enough to handle screwing like this, so the stakes end up essentially drilling into the ground and lifting the dirt out. Another potential problem is hitting rocks, because you can't gentle tap it a few times to coax it past a rock - you'd pretty much be stuck if you hit one. They probably do work well in the right conditions, but might not be versatile enough.
@@durstongear Thanks for the reply, makes sense. I guess living in sandy Florida they'd work well, but I can see how encountering some coral rock could "screw up" the idea!
The permanent rock walls / rings / windbreaks at such an exposed campsite, were a "red flag" about the type of wind and weather that area regularly (or even unexpectedly) experiences. The other big "red flag" was the majority of the other tents seen in the video (around 8 min. 10 sec. mark of the other video) were all 4 season expedition / mountaineering tents. The Zpacks is an absolutely fantastic, 3-season backpacking / thru-hiking tent, where its impressive strength-to-weight ratio and ease of setup really shine in most weather conditions experienced in Summer and the shoulder seasons. I have little doubt that if your Zpacks had been made of anything other than Dyneema / Cuben fiber and or the windbreaks weren't there (especially if they weren't there), your tent wouldn't have survived, and you'd be in that privy or sharing another tent nearby. For extreme weather and exposed locations, nothing beats a free-standing (with tie-outs), 4 season mountaineering / expedition tent. Yes, they're overbuilt / purpose built to be "tanks," not the lightest nor easiest to setup (despite radical improvements in tent design and materials in recent decades), and *definitely* not for 3 season backpacking or thru-hiking... but they (and you) will survive in conditions that would destroy, flatten, or blow away anything else.
Trekking pole tents have a problem with aerodynamics, due to their hard edges. A lot of the wind pressure comes from the turbulent tail the tent makes, as the wind loses a lot of its energy and that creates a pressure difference. The same way as with cars. And it's the same turbulence that creates all the flapping around. So while the tent may be strong, a more aerodynamic shape wouldn't just create less strain on the plugs, it would make for a better sleep. There's little that can be done about the weight issue, though.
You will LOVE the Mid-X. I have the new 2nd gen Mid-x 1p. It it not perfect, but hits 95% of all the things I wanted in a tent. The outer tent can be staked all the way to the ground and there are tie outs on all four sides to add additional strength for the weather. I didn't order the Pro version - I don't get out often enough to justify the extra $. The Standard version is still very light and packs small. I have not had it out in strong winds, but suspect it will do well in high winds, heavy rain or snow. Dan did a great job designing it.
You have to remember that the weather is very diffrent in Scandinavia compared to the US. We have alot of wind and rain coming and going. By a tent fore that climat
We had a triplex. After about four years of light use…..longest trip about 40 miles in 5 days….3-4 times a year, the actual dynema fabric started to pull apart at stress points. It wasn’t seams, but the actual fabric. I sent photos to Zpacks and there response was that it was 4 years old and just needed to be replaced. We replaced it with the lightest Hilleberg tent we could find…and have been happy so far. In our experience, dynema is not durable over time, and Zpacks seems to agree.
This type of issue is often because the tent has stress pulling diagonally on the fibers, which does pull the material apart. With careful design to have the stress in line with the fibers, the fabric lasts much better.
We live/hike/camp here in Iceland and often choose to use our 4P dyneema pyramid for the size luxury. However, we pitch the lower edge down to the ground using extra tie-out loops purchased from Mountain Laurel Designs. We also ALWAYS deploy all support lines and carry a selection of long, Y stakes which ALWAYS get large rocks placed on top to prevent them from pulling out like Dixie experienced...the North Atlantic weather CAN be cruel even when bad weather has not been forecasted. We have had good luck with the KUIU Storm Star in high wind (most quiet tent for windy conditions in our experience) but it weighs 6 pounds and is not the 'palace' that the pyramid is. A shame we missed Dixie as we were on the Laugavegur Trail only a few days prior to her trip. A friend we were with used a Durston Mid and it not only performed well but was a dream to set up and tear down...there were also several other Durston tents seen during our time and the owners were all extremely pleased with their 'hike homes'. The Durston tents might very well become the go-to tents when supply issues get sorted out and more people can get them. The only other suggestions for trips to Iceland would be to bring good rain gear (the 'packa poncho' works well especially when topped off with additional silicone spray) and to avoid cotton garments as they are near impossible to dry when wet and becoming wet in Iceland is guaranteed.
I highly agree with this. I've hiked Iceland all the way from the northern most point to the southern most point using a pyramid tarp (HMG ultramid 2). It performed wonderfully always felt very sturdy even in extreme weather. Only had one troublesome night where I had to set up in sandy terrain with no rocks close by on a very windy night. I used my trowel as an extra stake that night on the corner facing the wind, that helped quite a bit.
Ive had my Duplex in winds like that TWICE and if I knew there was a privy within 3 miles I would have hiked to it both times. Did actual damage to the tent both times. Zpacks fixed it for free the first time but it was only a minor charge the second time when out of warranty. The last time just needed some patches as the fabric stretched against the grain and opened up little cracks that MIGHT have leaked. It was gusting 60 near Tehacepi and gusting to 50+ going up to Idyllwild on the PCT
I like to watch a lot the hikers from the UK who spend time in crazy windy conditions in places like Scotland. The wind and the rain you were experiencing seems like just another hike for them. I don't think I have seen many people on those channels use a single wall hiking pole tent made out of anything but nylon and they use these interesting tent stakes that look like a U shape and most tents are longer, lower down and narrow; more arrow dynamic to match the conditions. When I see the tents like DuplexXL the AT always seems to come to mind. A fellow named Paul Messner does lots of tent reviews in similar conditions as you experienced and it really does show there can't be one perfect solution for all conditions. Love your channel Dixie.
I hike a lot in Scotland. Highlands quickly teach you not to use UL tents. One wall can work with different construction, like a pyramid. Diplex is not designed well for serious wind.
I've been researching those Durston tents and I keep hearing how weather resistant they are. Wind especially. They may be a good tent to take on this hike for anyone researching it.
That must have been a particularly chilly night. And noisy. I camped next to someone in a Zpacks a few weeks ago and it rustled loudly all night. 4 season Lanshan 2 is well worth the extra 350 grams. Everybody knows single walled tents are a pain in the assland, but it seems to be a case of "... Yes, but this one will be different this time ...".
Great info. We were there at the same time with a duplex and a plex solo. The ground is terrible to stake in, and without tons of rocks it would have collapsed for sure. Lots of people were chasing their tents in the night. We made it through but it was noisy😀
The wife and I did the hike to the Reykjadalur Valley Hot River in October of 2018. We had rain and 50mph gust. It the worst and most memorable hike in our lives. Iceland was one the best trips we have ever taken.
My very first night in my Marmot UL Tungsten featured a 90 minute thunderstorm complete with tornado warning. I was *very* glad I had grabbed some extra guy lines and set them up.
If you are going to do areas like this, seriously get an appropriate tent - Fjallraven, Hilleberg, Terra Nova. ZPacks are great but for tame & protected areas.
Been in a storm at the coast of England (Folkestone) with the Triplex. It performed wonderful. Only had to gather my bags the next day because they were blown away out of the vestibules.
@@deKampeerwijzer Not all storms are equal.. No offence but you can not experienced that much weather if you don't see the obvious limitations of those tents. Good for the purpose, pretty much useless for harsher conditions.
I have an OG X-Mid 1P. I've never had it out in weather like you experience in Iceland, but it also has some really big vestibule, but set up differently, you can bring the whole fly down to the ground to block rain and wind, plus it has zippers, so it's not flapping all over like the Z-Packs. I'm just glad you made it thru that night. I've had some pretty dicey trips out, including some tornadic weather, but still, I think nothing like that!
Welcome to Island life of wind! I call the island of Sjaeland Denmark the windy country. When they talk about it being the choice for this trail, they talk about the SHAPE. Domes do way better in wind. It is basic dynamics, you know the course Engineers have to take called Statitics and Dynamics. Straight edges does not help in wind. Plus your tent is way taller than the wind break of the rocks. Most tents that I see for sell in Denmark are lower to the ground. Yeah I am claustrophobic and prefer a tent that is easier to sit up in, but there is something about low to the ground.
It’s interesting to see that almost none of the Scandinavian or UK outdoor channels that go out in really bad or cold conditions use the Duplex or other non-freestanding pole tents. I personally use the Hilleberg Unna for winter/bad conditions, MSR Hubba rest of the year. US channels seems to be more focussed on weight, and prefer tents like the Duplex or Chinese knock-offs. Not saying one is better than the other, but just an observation.
There are dyneema pyramid tents Be expensive if it were to rip, abrade, or puncture though. Not sure that I would even want to be on open Florida beach in a zpack tent during a blustery thunderstorm.
Agreed weight seems to almost be a religion in the U.S , not sure why , fashion ?, they do seem to carry awfully light packs, far lighter than my day pack i carry around town or to work, 12-14 Kgs average. A day walk sees me with 18-20 kgs, two days 35 kgs min. This also seems to be reflected in their tent choices as you point out, to me effectiveness in the prevailing climate is the only important consideration. I use a combination of an issue hootchie, a carinthia bivvy bag, an issue high roof dome tent for hot climates or a snugpak bunker for cold climates depending on circumstances, when hiking solo i usually just have the bivvy and hootchie.
@@peterjones4180 The UL kit favored in the US is perfectly adequate to the climate that most people are using it in. People use this gear for 1000s of km and 100s of nights because the vast majority of hiking in the US is during summer months and below treeline. The high wind, heavy precipitation and dangerous temperatures experienced in alpine conditions in the EU, highlands in the UK and in this case, Iceland represent less than 1% of the expected conditions for a backpacker in the US. It's not fashion, it's using the best possible kit for the most likely conditions you will experience. I have both the tent depicted in this video and also burly mountaineering tents from Hilleburg and Black Diamond. I use the proper equipment for the conditions I am likely to experience, but weight is always a consideration. Less weight means more comfort, more miles, more experiences. But safety is the primary concern. I would not have taken the Duplex to iceland, I would have used my BD First Light, if solo; or my Hilleburg Nammataj if with a partner. Much heavier than the duplex, but they would have shrugged off the wind and precip Dixie experience with ease, and they are relatively lightweight for their capability. Everyone can benefit from UL techniques, everyone can evaluate their kit and substitute lighter gear or eliminate extraneous items. But safety is always the primary concern; the only issue is when our fear of the unknown is conflated with our desire for safely experiencing outdoor environments that can be at times, extreme.
This is solid. It's just different conditions. Most people in the US are hiking along the most popular established hiking trails in the Appalachian trail corridor. "High" elevation there is around 2km. While extreme conditions can occur in the winter months, 99% of people are hiking in the summer when temperatures will be in the 10s C even at night. You have to actively search for areas to get above treeline or experience any true exposure. Even if winds will reach 100kmph in a thunderstorm, down in the trees you are sheltered, and worst case - if you lose your tent you're not in conditions that will kill you. Thus, weight, and comfort while hiking is the major concern. In the western US precipitation is so rare, (outside of the PNW) your tent is more of a comfort item than an actual necessity. Much better to invest in a really good sleeping bag and bivy. Conversely in the Alps, PNW, in the Scottish highlands; mountainous terrain where a storm can literally kill you and weather reports are guidelines at best; safety is the primary concern.
@@jgalt99 Well thats a difference between you and me, comfort is not a factor for me in terms of weight nor k's marched as regardless of weight i plan the same k's, the only difference is the time it takes to complete the days bound. I have never seen the need myself to lighten a load, i select the equipment i need for the march and carry it, i dont weigh any of my gear items though i do have an idea of what my pack weighs by how it feels, having long ago weighed full packs to establish a baseline. I myself just do not see lighter packs as a desirable, outcome just unimportant. I agree with your appreciation of the tent used in Iceland, a more robust heavier tent would have been more appropriate. Perhaps my former military background has formed the perspective i have. I use Mystery Ranch and Crossfire Australia military packs and associated military equipment from my Armored Corps days.
Very honest appraisal of both the tent and your errors. Wrapping the guy lines around the rocks before pegging them out (which may then not even be necessary) is even better than just putting the rocks on top. You can buy some tiny alligator clips and add a small length of paracord to clip onto the side panels to prevent that flapping (if they held up in that wind) ! Also adding extra peak guys (the guys themselves weight next to nothing of course so stay in the pack unless necessary).
Most of my hikes are above the tree line in Scandinavia and Scotland. I anchor my guy lines with stones anytime I can, even if there is no wind. Wind will definitely come when I am asleep 🙂
@@HomemadeWanderlust I put rocks on the top of the stakes, guylines are free to move round. If stakes can't go into the ground I lay them horizontally under the rock without touching the line. I also have paracord(2-3 feet total)for lines extension under/around the rock for that reason. Never had line breaking so far. Good point though. Thank you for your hard work. Be safe.
Worth noting is that thru hiking trail are for the most part very sanitized and controlled hiking experiences, don't get me wrong it's hard enough. But, you do mostly fine if your tent or sleeping bags for some reason breaks, most of the gear that are used by thru hikers are by no means suited to bring on off trail camping for example on the arctic tundra or in the northern boreal forest in the shoulder season.
I was backpacking with my Duplex in Western Washington and the wind got so bad on the 2nd night that I had to get out of my tent twice to reset my stakes, even though I thought I had secured them decently with large rocks. The profile on the Duplex probably isn't the best for high winds, but I don't really blame the Duplex that much as the soil was a bit sandy/loose and I wasn't expecting high winds, so I was using mini-Groundhogs to stake out the corners which is where the failure occurred. I was using regular Groundhogs for the vestibules. But, on the bright side, it wasn't raining when I had to get out of my tent. :)~
It's not just your Duplex. Iceland is hard on all tents, particularly backpacking tents. Hilleberg's did tend to do better. I hiked the Laugavegur in '09 and had planned to do the extension to Skogar. Unfortunately there was bad weather and the rangers wouldn't let anyone hike out of Landmannalaugar for two days, leaving me short on time. Even at that protected location, almost all the tents were struggling to stay up. Some of them were completely flattened. I was one of the few that stubbornly stuck with my tent. Almost everyone else there brought their sleeping bags into the coed bathroom and slept on the floor. I had to step around everyone to get to the sink to brush my teeth. My Tarptent Rainbow did this sort of bending over thing. Picture a dog that lays it's front legs down but keeps it's hind end in the air. Half of the tent was up and the other half was flattened down over my face and torso. The stakes all held, but a fabric loop ripped off the outside of the tent and I ended up with a couple of punctures from trying to use trekking poles to add support. I love my Rainbow, but I don't think I'd take it back to Iceland. I'd definitely hike there again, though!
I was worried for you on that one Dixie 😳 and that situation is a nightmare for me 🥺. I too like DCF, but I opted for HMG Echo II instead of Zpacks for the same reason. No water in the tent, no wind knocking it down. Not being able to be out of the elements was a deal breaker for me. But all gear involves trade-offs. With the Echo II it's hard for a lot of people to sit up in the tent even near the trekking pole. We were in the whites for Labor Day weekend and we got flooded out BIG time with torrential downpours that lasted 2 whole days and over night. There was inches of water around the tent and so much wind but the shelter was solid. It really saved my dog and I. No wind issues and no water in the tent at all. I couldn't believe how well it did, but I figured it would because HMG is a Maine company and if they can make Whites worthy tents then we're golden. I was so so so so so happy with it and it's the tent I'm taking to hike the AT nobo in spring of 2023 solo. My family was worried until they realized it was warm and dry in my tent. I had no experience with these tents when I bought a trekking pole supported tension shelter. And it didn't come with instructions either, but I got it done in the end.
Hi Dixie, I hike a lot in the mountains. I think the Zpacks tents perform nicely above tree line. But I prefer the smaller ones here. The Plex Solo performed very well on my last trip. The only thing I did, when I knew a storm was announced, was to pile up stones in the gaps under the vestibule doors and all around the tent as well. A smaller tent has less surface area for the wind to act on.
I just pitched my Duplex so low to the ground that it was almost impossible for wind to get up underneath it. Definitely pitch adjustment could / would mitigate alot of what I saw in this video. Best of luck on the trails!
I have the duplex also, and I recently watched a video on this topic recommending how to set it up, in really windy conditions. I think that’s a great tip!
While I don’t use Hillebergs in the warmer months as I prefer tarps, I do use them in the colder nastier weather. I own and use the Soulo, Allak2, and Allak3… All fully freestanding tents… I find The Soulo to be the perfect choice at giving the most protection while still being manageable with weight. The others I will split the load between myself and my son or wife..
A great place to see how well tents do in wind is PCT Days which happens in Cascade Locks, an area of the Columbia River Gorge that is popular with windsurfers. You get to see all the cottage manufacturers put up their tents in front of their stands (and hundreds more PCT thru hiker tents on Thunder Island) and how they fare in the wind. Suffice it to say, I was not impressed with Zpacks products. I haven't experienced extreme conditions in my Durston X-Mid yet, but I'm pretty confident it'll do a better job for the same weight.
It all boils down to your personal experience and how much safety you want. As you have shown it is possible to use an ultralight tent in this area if you have the experience. But in these areas going ultralight certainly has its limitations. In my estimation this situation could have easily gone sideways for less experienced people. Also you were lucky, that the storm calmed down in the morning. I would certainly recommend to use a four season tent, maybe a Hilleberg or a Helsport that is actually made for these conditions. These companies have year long experience and make their tents specifically with conditions like these in mind. I certainly would not feel safe in a duplex in these high winds, plus you have a problem if everything gets soaked. I rather have a few kilos more on my back than have one night like that.
I’ve been in some bad storms, sideways rain, etc. and I’ve been ok. I’d love to get something like a Hilleberg, but I simply don’t need that level of protection where I camp. But for that environment, I’d say something bombproof is in order! Glad you made it through!
Thanks for making this video, I have a lot more confidence in dyneema tents now. I cant wait to hear your opinion and review on the Durston X-Mid Pro. I saw a comment earlier that said they saw a few X-mids out on that same trail that performed phenomenally!
That was a rough night, for sure! Handled with grace and grit! The NammatJ 2 is often in videos of hikes for England's Lake District, Scotish Highlands, and Scandinavian hikes. Those are all hikes mostly above the tree line and at higher altitudes and generally rotten weather, so the tent must be good. Probably heavier and more expensive, but sturdiness, warmth, and safety in bad weather is top priority in those situations.
Thats what I found as well with the Duplex. If there is significant wind and rain, the doors will flap, and where they overlap it will create a very effective spray tool that will spray everything inside constantly.
We use a zpacks triplex, learned to use full size msr groundhog stakes for the 4 corners and 2 vestibules and minis for the rest. Also learning the big rock/little rock setup for bad weather is a better option than small stakes. Above treeline hiking, we just use our msr hubba hubba after a bad lightning storm at guitar lake before mt whitney.
Zpacks does make a freestanding kit for pitching in windy and rocky conditions, but only for the duplex. It still won't behave like a regular double wall freestanding tent, but it's a big improvement in high winds.
I recently purchased this for testing in some windy conditions coming up on the Trans-Catalina Trail. I’ve scheduled the Laugavegur Trail for Summer 2024, so I’ll see how it holds up with the extra kit prior to going.
I had a similar experience in the Whites with my Duplex (not XL). I lowered my tent but the windy rain still filled my tent with mist. It held up ok, and fortunately the next day was sunny so everything dried out.
I will never use a dyneema tent in Scandinavia for sure. In a Dyneema tent the risk og hypothermia, wind rain cold getting in the tent are higher. Once i had to start hiking because that shelter could not be reliable up in the mountains. I came to the car 4 in the morning, and slept there. SilNylon 4 season Tent all the for me know 👌Saved my life too in my Across Norway little Thruhike, cought in another storm with my wife.
Dixie, I've followed your videos since you hiked the Appalachian Trail. Thanks for all the great info you give. You are one of the very best when it comes to "how you do it," and "what you need to do it with." Thanks so very much, Dixie!
I had a pretty windy night on the CT this summer (nothing as crazy as your Icelandic adventure). I stacked rocks on the stakes and woke up to a frayed guy line. it was down to a few strings by the morning. So there's that to take into account as well.
Err, yea. For alpine conditions you really want an alpine tent. If your casual backpacking, then sure, go light weight. The material of the DupleXL is great, its the design that's the problem - its little more than a glorified tarp.
I am hiking the cdt sobo, my 2nd week hail shredded my plex solo .9 holes, weekend the dcf pretty bad a bunch of tiny micro holes . I'm honestly pretty nervous to go through the San Juan's with it :( I had a little bit of frozen condensation 4 days ago and it completely sank in..I will never buy from zpacks again .
I was on this trail in July this year and remember your first camping spot well. We briefly stopped at the hut for water & continued on to the next hut by the lake with the bar/restaurant. Although the visibility was similar, the wind was no where near as bad as you experienced. The ground for tent pegs is not good as it is broken up clinker over bedrock, so anchoring with rocks (consisting of black glass there!) is probably the only way.
Also Hyperlite Ultamid is pretty good, despite being tall. Also watch some of the videos by backpackers in Scotland and Britain's Lake District where there is no tree cover.
Yeah, the winds in Iceland were always way stronger than what we expected. Having windproof cloth is important there. Well windproof everything is important there.
I am currently working on some new tent stakes that hopefully solve this issue, but still weigh only 15 grams. I believe in protecting your expensive investment and will not go through another anchor failure again.
Wouldn't have helped the door situation, but I always have an extra pair of tie outs in my repair kit so I can extend for rock or root ground stakes. Having been through 4 tornados, I don't take wind for granted. Those extra tie outs also have a 100 extra uses on trail and around camp from making a hasy tripod, line for a gravity filter, extra shoe lace, pack lashings, clothes line, etc.
I'm happy to see someone finally revealing (or should I say unveiling) the ultra-obvious, numerous and potentially very seriously lacking shortcomings with this particular tent style in more demanding conditions. Of note: This includes in many forms... tents sharing lineage w/ similar design limitations like the Durston, others you mentioned, Lanshan 2 etc. Simply a poor shelter selection no matter the weight/space savings, materials, cost, features/components, accessories, etc. In high exposure areas and venturing with trekking pole designs... there is no substitute for pyramidal, pentagonal, and hexagonal single center-pole up tipi-type 4-season tents plus suitable staking w/ cordage kit. To be 'matter-of-fact' the 'no-zip' doorway is just laughably deficient. A good thing to keep in perspective here is the what if considerations: What if there were no rock encirclements, none available to already taken, (or you had to take the time to make your own)? This Z-P tent is bush-league for demanding, harsh conditions, high-exposure camps. If going single-wall for these conditions and Dyneema... I'd go Hyperlite Ultamid. In this case, an Ultimid and using good stakes... you'd have avoided every shortcoming addressed with the exception of single wall condensation scenarios.
This place (Alftavatn) is well known to be windy because close to a mountain top, and the rock walls are set up there permanently to protect people. If dispersed camping would be allowed noone would choose this place as campsite, and look for something with better protection instead. But you have to use the sites aside the huts in Iceland's highland. Your single center-pole tent depends on the guy lines and thus tent pegs the same as a dual pole tent, or even more. I see no advantage. Secure your tent pegs well, and you are a happy camper :)
First, epic trip and video Dixie! Iceland is a place I've dreamed of visiting. Perhaps one day I will. As for your tent. That's a tough one. Just looking at the profile and setup of your tent I'm left feeling it is probably not the best design for such high wind locations? Just a guess on my part, but I'm left feeling that perhaps a conical shaped shelter might be best for high wind locales? Pyramid / tipi style/lavuu shelters seem to be the go to for cultures that live in extreme climates where the wind and the snow can really pile it on. That said, I also believe that most of their strength comes from the pole framework that supports the skin, which would be of little help for a backpacker as no one is going to lug all those poles about. As you well know, there are pyramid/conical tent offerings that are made to be erected with a single trekking pole in the center with numerous tie outs around the tent. A backpacking friend of mine has such a tent and he loves his. He did make a trip to Iceland a couple of years ago, but I'm not sure what tent he used while hiking and camping there. I'll have to check with him and see what he used and if he encountered the winds you did. Concerning stakes. I recently made up some stakes from 1/2 inch oak that I cut into 1/2 square pegs. Pointed them and cut notches for tie outs as I've become disenchanted with metal or plastic stakes that always seem to bend or pull free at the most inopportune times. On a recent hike I discovered that these stakes seem to hold very well in loose, marginal soil albeit I did not have to contend with high winds like you did. The stakes don't seem to be much heavier than most of my metal stakes, they don't bend like metal stakes and they seem to have superior grip in marginal soil. Still too soon to give them my complete endorsement, but I plan to continue to use and test them in different situations and evaluate their performance. One advantage the wood stakes has over metal or plastic is that they seem to swell ever so slightly after insertion into the soil and I believe it is this slight swelling that helps them grip better? Food for thought anyways. E-mail me at; garywood702@msn.com with any questions or comments. Love your content, keep up the great work!
Like that here in Tasmania, especially in alpine areas. Always need a 4 season tent. We can’t really go UL weight here. You need to carry a lot of heavier weighted gear. It can snow any day of the week, any day of the year.
Yes .....sometimes you just can't go super lightweight. I saw a few people that carried like 10 ibuprofen and a small roll of tape as their first aid kit.....no joke. I also have a friend that camped in Denali much like she did in Iceland......he thought he was going to freeze to death. He brought everything too light.... including shoes.
@@bmphil3400 absolutely! I’d rather have everything I need than make a sub 10lb pack… my life is worth more than being an UL hiker. I even follow a guy on here who is a self proclaimed UL Hiker, and even he took a 20kg/44lb pack. But that was in Autumn, and on the Overland Track, where you need to carry anywhere between 5-10 days of food (dependent on whether you walk the main track, or do side trips as well). It’s in the remotest part of Tassie, and there’s no roads to walk or hitchhike to a shop… just you, your pack, and the wilderness - just the way I like it!
@@bmphil3400 Denali is something completely different. You should realize that less than 100 yards from this campsite is a building where you could retreat in a real emergency.
Dyneema is the future. The DupleXL is a great design for most hiking. I have a Black Diamond First Light with free standing internal frame that would withstood that storm better, maybe, but it would be miserable in most three season hiking that you do. It is my winter Wyoming tent but I di use it in Spring and fall when expecting mixed weather and wind. I love those rock rings. Thank you for this conversation.
My question is why is this a topic after so long. Didn’t you use this tent during your PCT and CDT hikeS? I used the Zpack last summer during the JMT and I experienced all the horrible weather related issues you can think of. Even when camping while hiking Mount Charleston near Vegas in another opportunity, I learned to collapse the tent with me inside because the wind was insane. This is an ok tent but hope for no wind conditions and/or low humidity. Oh, and the condensation inside can be alarming. I had to wake up twice every night to wipe it down. yes, is light, and that is a plus, but there are a few trades to do for that to become a benefit.
The Dipole 2 is likely to be more wind-resistant than even the X-Mid Pro 2. That said, the X-Mid will probably do better than the DupleXL in the wind because you can pitch it so low.
Jessica, On my way to work this morning you were on my heart. I hope all is well. If it is, fantastic and continued blessings and success to you. If things are tough, know I am praying for you. I am not sure why I was thinking about how you are doing, either spiritually or physically. But please know you were on my heart this morning, and I prayed for you! Be safe and well, and keep up the wonderful work. Iceland looked amazing!
So it wasn't an issue with the tent but the stakes? Looking at that ground you'd struggle to get any stake to hold. I've put my Plex solo and stratospire li through some pretty bad wind and like yourself the tent strength was never a worry. In my experience the stakes are the weak point.
@@Kevinschart My biggest issue with the Plex solo is when you can't get proper tension on the fabric. In high winds in peak District I've nailed my Plex solo to the hill with no gap around it and only 2" under the doors. As long as the doors are kept tight you have no issues.
Wow it does look that you had harsh weather! We just hike the same trail as you on 1/9-5/9 and we had just a little bit of rain in two nights and that’s all. But we did waited a little bit for the good weather before we started the hike. Sleeping in tent gives you great flexibility in that trek, compare to a hat that you need to book in advance and than you need to go no matter what the weather is
The design of the Zpack's Duplex makes it a terrible tent if there is any wind at all. This is due to the ventilation going around the bottom of the entire tent. It is like having no walls at all around the area where you sleep. If you can "sleep" with cold air blasting at you all night and not get sick then this is the tent for you. It does not provide protection from the wind or the cold. A freestanding double walled tent where the walls go all the way the ground will protect against the wind and the cold and is the best bet for conditions like these. Unfortunately they are heavier and that is the trade off.
In my experience, I agree with your points, and to add I prefer tents that have a more rounded top for windy conditions (also setting them up in a way to be better aerodynamic-wise though it looks like that night in Iceland any tent would of had issues even with the most ideal setup).
I own a few tents and I own a Duplex, but I would never have brought my Duplex to Iceland. You need the correct tool for the job. Maybe Hilleberg would have been a better choice.
@@HomemadeWanderlust That is great to hear because to be honest it’s my favorite tent of all. I am older and the lightness has really helped to keep me hiking and hiking some real miles. I just got off the Long Trail in Vermont and I can’t imagine carrying a heavy tent ever again. That looks like an awesome trip. Take care
If you don't mind, just how many miles have you covered over the years. (not counting the back tracking to get your camara)? Thank you again for the trip
I'm unsure why some backpacking tent manufactures make vestibules that can't hug tight to the ground while maintaining adequate bathtub floor height. Even without much wind the splashing from a heavy rain can soak the floor on such tents. Moderate to heavy wind makes it even worse. I assume these manufactures are cutting necessary functionality to save weight, but when you are trying to sleep and are getting wet, the tiny weight saving has little value in those moments.
You really needed a tent with a skirt in those conditions. It would have stopped the wind. You just needed to put rocks on the skirt around the tent. You would have been pretty cozy.
welcome to the xmid family. you can set them up really close to ground or really high. the vestibule gap on the duplex is the main reason i'll never buy one.
If you want the absolute bomb proof and are willing to carry the weight you probably need the Hilleberg. Also, integral fly and inner pitch for the win.
Thank you for posting this, even if it's not the perfect result - it makes the video grounded. I appreciate it. I'd love to see you try similar conditions in the winter. That's when things gets interesting. ;)
Prior to pitching a tent, one must ensure that the wind is facing the most favourable aerodynamics of the tent, in this intance the angled side is the most favourable. The front flaps with or without zippers should never face the wind. When windy, this type of tent should have its outer shell low and not allowing for any wind to enter the inside of the tent. When in nordic countries, I would prefer to carry a 4 season tent irrespective on the time of the year.
@@HomemadeWanderlust Hejjj Dixie! Greetings from sunny Malta! We're a very small island in the med and we do get alot of strong winds :)) Some companies do leave the zippers out because of the weight factor and the cost issue. Zippers will stop the wind from coming into the tent and stops it from flying away. On windy days, keep the pole short so the outer shell is no more then 1" above the ground. On warm days, the poles could be extended to allow for a nice breeze to come in. Probably, your design could have the back pole shorter then the front one and allow for the back to face the wind. In any case, from the video l estimate that the winds there where a gale force 6 or 7, that is the maximum most tents can take.
Remember that a lot of us watch this channel to learn. I think we’re fortunate to have Dixie who gives honest feedback on her experiences so we can learn from them. Also as she said some folks have different things in their packs to carry, so going lighter weight in the other gear will be more of a necessity for some than others, opening themselves up to different issues.
Always great to see Dixie's practical conversations about equipment. Zpacks Duplex is an excellent tent, but not for above tree line locations. It is drafty in general. Dyneema material is indeed very strong(strongest?), but this situation is more about the tent construction than the material. Areas above tree line particularly in the northern countries have different requirements than something like Appalachian trail in US or West Highland Way in Scotland. Different toys for different games. I just finished 10 days solo hike in Norway with Nemo Hornet 2P. I did save about 600 g compared to my Nemo Kunai 2P or 1300 g over Hilleberg Soulo , but since all my hike was above tree line I did have a few days when I wished I have a stronger tent. Weight of course was the only reason, 10 days of food supply was heavy enough. Be safe.
Hi Dixie, I made a Laugavegur hike this August and got in the same kind of storm. I also wanted to cut off some weight and therefore took my Big Agnes Tiger Wall 3 with me. It survived the night, no rain got inside. However, in the morning wind got stronger and one of the poles snapped. The reason was the construction of the tent, where all the load was put on a tiny lightweight pole section.
This experience, your videos and videos of other guys who travelled ultralight in Iceland (they were using some Dyneema tent with tracking poles too, and their tent was down in the storm as well) made me think that such kind of tents is not suitable for Iceland and similar places. This is not about Dyneema or nylon, this is about the overall construction of the tent. All free-standing tents in our group survived the storm. Okay, we have fixed our tent with the repair tool like in your video and successfully finished our trek. But for the benefit of other hikers going to Iceland, I would recommend at least a free-standing tent. Yes, it might weigh some extra 600 grams, but it would save you from the extreme experience of fixing a tent on a stormy night. And yes, you have to put rocks on the pegs and secure all possible guy-lines in all possible places.
Regarding the campsites, we've spent the first night at Landmannalaugar as you suggested and were supposed to have the second night at Álftavatn. When we arrived there, we were told by the staff that a storm was coming and we better go to the next campsite. So we had to go 5 km more, 26 in total and stayed at Hvanngil. That was the place where the storm hit our tent. So, if a proper storm is coming there is no place to hide, regardless is it in the mountains or not :-)
Thanks for your videos and good luck!
I hiked there in 2021(late July/early August) and had no problems with the wind, using a trekking pole LanShan2 tent. Most people around me used freestanding ones, but I guess this was not necessarily by intention concerning the weather. There wasn't such a storm then.
The strongest wind I had had until now was this year on the east flank of Mt Whitney, it may have been similar to the one we see in the video, and I also just had a tent peg snapping. Trekking pole tents are more stable than free standing ones - a trekking pole that can withstand my full weight will never break in a storm - but depend on the stability of the guy lines. I should have put more and bigger rocks on them ;)
@@Henning_Rech "Trekking pole tents are more stable than free standing ones"
You'd assume people would use trekking pole tents around the arctic and antarctic conditions, where piteraq can occur, but to the contrary.
Dixie puts so much thought into topics and analyzes them so broadly. I love her mind. I’m not implying she’s always “right” but I can tell she’s an engineer. She loves hiking and I love watching her hike and gaining insights I can apply to my world ❤️.
Thanks for the kind words Dixie. I hope the X-Mid Pro works well for you.
Thank you! I’m excited to give it a whirl
Durston Gear: Since you're on here and paying attention I'd like to ask why no one seems to have made tent stakes that spiral so you can "screw" them into the ground? Thinking like the ones you can get to stake out your dog, for example, but lighter and maybe narrower in the actual spiral.
@@rumblechick73 Good question. Lawson Equipment did make a stake like this about 5 years ago but they don't sell stakes anymore. MSR has a stake with a bit of a twist (cyclone stake?) but I don't think it's meant to screw in.
I wonder if a lot of dirt isn't strong enough to handle screwing like this, so the stakes end up essentially drilling into the ground and lifting the dirt out. Another potential problem is hitting rocks, because you can't gentle tap it a few times to coax it past a rock - you'd pretty much be stuck if you hit one.
They probably do work well in the right conditions, but might not be versatile enough.
@@durstongear Thanks for the reply, makes sense. I guess living in sandy Florida they'd work well, but I can see how encountering some coral rock could "screw up" the idea!
The permanent rock walls / rings / windbreaks at such an exposed campsite, were a "red flag" about the type of wind and weather that area regularly (or even unexpectedly) experiences. The other big "red flag" was the majority of the other tents seen in the video (around 8 min. 10 sec. mark of the other video) were all 4 season expedition / mountaineering tents.
The Zpacks is an absolutely fantastic, 3-season backpacking / thru-hiking tent, where its impressive strength-to-weight ratio and ease of setup really shine in most weather conditions experienced in Summer and the shoulder seasons.
I have little doubt that if your Zpacks had been made of anything other than Dyneema / Cuben fiber and or the windbreaks weren't there (especially if they weren't there), your tent wouldn't have survived, and you'd be in that privy or sharing another tent nearby.
For extreme weather and exposed locations, nothing beats a free-standing (with tie-outs), 4 season mountaineering / expedition tent. Yes, they're overbuilt / purpose built to be "tanks," not the lightest nor easiest to setup (despite radical improvements in tent design and materials in recent decades), and *definitely* not for 3 season backpacking or thru-hiking... but they (and you) will survive in conditions that would destroy, flatten, or blow away anything else.
Yup! I use 4 season tents year round when in the mountains here in Norway 😂
Trekking pole tents have a problem with aerodynamics, due to their hard edges. A lot of the wind pressure comes from the turbulent tail the tent makes, as the wind loses a lot of its energy and that creates a pressure difference. The same way as with cars. And it's the same turbulence that creates all the flapping around.
So while the tent may be strong, a more aerodynamic shape wouldn't just create less strain on the plugs, it would make for a better sleep. There's little that can be done about the weight issue, though.
You will LOVE the Mid-X. I have the new 2nd gen Mid-x 1p. It it not perfect, but hits 95% of all the things I wanted in a tent. The outer tent can be staked all the way to the ground and there are tie outs on all four sides to add additional strength for the weather. I didn't order the Pro version - I don't get out often enough to justify the extra $. The Standard version is still very light and packs small. I have not had it out in strong winds, but suspect it will do well in high winds, heavy rain or snow. Dan did a great job designing it.
Had the XMid 1 P on that same trail. No issues even during these crazy winds and rain.
@@wandaesch7314 I am in the path of Ian tonight. If I didn't have to work tomorrow I'd be tempted to head for the woods with it.
You have to remember that the weather is very diffrent in Scandinavia compared to the US. We have alot of wind and rain coming and going. By a tent fore that climat
WORD, did you there are plenty of Exp. Tourist who get rescued in 10s every year! from Norway from Red Cross.
We had a triplex. After about four years of light use…..longest trip about 40 miles in 5 days….3-4 times a year, the actual dynema fabric started to pull apart at stress points. It wasn’t seams, but the actual fabric. I sent photos to Zpacks and there response was that it was 4 years old and just needed to be replaced. We replaced it with the lightest Hilleberg tent we could find…and have been happy so far. In our experience, dynema is not durable over time, and Zpacks seems to agree.
This type of issue is often because the tent has stress pulling diagonally on the fibers, which does pull the material apart. With careful design to have the stress in line with the fibers, the fabric lasts much better.
We live/hike/camp here in Iceland and often choose to use our 4P dyneema pyramid for the size luxury. However, we pitch the lower edge down to the ground using extra tie-out loops purchased from Mountain Laurel Designs. We also ALWAYS deploy all support lines and carry a selection of long, Y stakes which ALWAYS get large rocks placed on top to prevent them from pulling out like Dixie experienced...the North Atlantic weather CAN be cruel even when bad weather has not been forecasted.
We have had good luck with the KUIU Storm Star in high wind (most quiet tent for windy conditions in our experience) but it weighs 6 pounds and is not the 'palace' that the pyramid is.
A shame we missed Dixie as we were on the Laugavegur Trail only a few days prior to her trip. A friend we were with used a Durston Mid and it not only performed well but was a dream to set up and tear down...there were also several other Durston tents seen during our time and the owners were all extremely pleased with their 'hike homes'. The Durston tents might very well become the go-to tents when supply issues get sorted out and more people can get them.
The only other suggestions for trips to Iceland would be to bring good rain gear (the 'packa poncho' works well especially when topped off with additional silicone spray) and to avoid cotton garments as they are near impossible to dry when wet and becoming wet in Iceland is guaranteed.
I highly agree with this. I've hiked Iceland all the way from the northern most point to the southern most point using a pyramid tarp (HMG ultramid 2). It performed wonderfully always felt very sturdy even in extreme weather. Only had one troublesome night where I had to set up in sandy terrain with no rocks close by on a very windy night. I used my trowel as an extra stake that night on the corner facing the wind, that helped quite a bit.
@@AltijdNiek That's a great idea...though as you know there is usually no shortage of rocks here ,^>
I suppose that must be the reason(s) Durston's X-Mids has a cult like following, aka the Sage Cult.
@@things_are_iffy yup.
Ive had my Duplex in winds like that TWICE and if I knew there was a privy within 3 miles I would have hiked to it both times. Did actual damage to the tent both times. Zpacks fixed it for free the first time but it was only a minor charge the second time when out of warranty. The last time just needed some patches as the fabric stretched against the grain and opened up little cracks that MIGHT have leaked. It was gusting 60 near Tehacepi and gusting to 50+ going up to Idyllwild on the PCT
I like to watch a lot the hikers from the UK who spend time in crazy windy conditions in places like Scotland. The wind and the rain you were experiencing seems like just another hike for them. I don't think I have seen many people on those channels use a single wall hiking pole tent made out of anything but nylon and they use these interesting tent stakes that look like a U shape and most tents are longer, lower down and narrow; more arrow dynamic to match the conditions. When I see the tents like DuplexXL the AT always seems to come to mind. A fellow named Paul Messner does lots of tent reviews in similar conditions as you experienced and it really does show there can't be one perfect solution for all conditions. Love your channel Dixie.
I hike a lot in Scotland. Highlands quickly teach you not to use UL tents. One wall can work with different construction, like a pyramid. Diplex is not designed well for serious wind.
Agreed. Love Paul’s videos and a bivy may have been best.
I've been researching those Durston tents and I keep hearing how weather resistant they are. Wind especially. They may be a good tent to take on this hike for anyone researching it.
That must have been a particularly chilly night. And noisy. I camped next to someone in a Zpacks a few weeks ago and it rustled loudly all night. 4 season Lanshan 2 is well worth the extra 350 grams. Everybody knows single walled tents are a pain in the assland, but it seems to be a case of "... Yes, but this one will be different this time ...".
The weather isn't always like this. I hike the same trails (plus Hellismannaleid) last summer in a 3 season LanShan 1+, and always felt safe.
Great info. We were there at the same time with a duplex and a plex solo. The ground is terrible to stake in, and without tons of rocks it would have collapsed for sure. Lots of people were chasing their tents in the night. We made it through but it was noisy😀
The wife and I did the hike to the
Reykjadalur Valley Hot River in October of 2018. We had rain and 50mph gust. It the worst and most memorable hike in our lives. Iceland was one the best trips we have ever taken.
Hello Dixie, I think a self Standing, double Wall Tent is the best option in this Conditions.
My very first night in my Marmot UL Tungsten featured a 90 minute thunderstorm complete with tornado warning. I was *very* glad I had grabbed some extra guy lines and set them up.
If you are going to do areas like this, seriously get an appropriate tent - Fjallraven, Hilleberg, Terra Nova. ZPacks are great but for tame & protected areas.
This.
Been in a storm at the coast of England (Folkestone) with the Triplex. It performed wonderful. Only had to gather my bags the next day because they were blown away out of the vestibules.
@@deKampeerwijzer Not all storms are equal.. No offence but you can not experienced that much weather if you don't see the obvious limitations of those tents. Good for the purpose, pretty much useless for harsher conditions.
Those are great tents, but they are 4season tents
I have an OG X-Mid 1P. I've never had it out in weather like you experience in Iceland, but it also has some really big vestibule, but set up differently, you can bring the whole fly down to the ground to block rain and wind, plus it has zippers, so it's not flapping all over like the Z-Packs.
I'm just glad you made it thru that night. I've had some pretty dicey trips out, including some tornadic weather, but still, I think nothing like that!
Welcome to Island life of wind! I call the island of Sjaeland Denmark the windy country. When they talk about it being the choice for this trail, they talk about the SHAPE. Domes do way better in wind. It is basic dynamics, you know the course Engineers have to take called Statitics and Dynamics. Straight edges does not help in wind. Plus your tent is way taller than the wind break of the rocks. Most tents that I see for sell in Denmark are lower to the ground. Yeah I am claustrophobic and prefer a tent that is easier to sit up in, but there is something about low to the ground.
It’s interesting to see that almost none of the Scandinavian or UK outdoor channels that go out in really bad or cold conditions use the Duplex or other non-freestanding pole tents. I personally use the Hilleberg Unna for winter/bad conditions, MSR Hubba rest of the year. US channels seems to be more focussed on weight, and prefer tents like the Duplex or Chinese knock-offs. Not saying one is better than the other, but just an observation.
There are dyneema pyramid tents Be expensive if it were to rip, abrade, or puncture though. Not sure that I would even want to be on open Florida beach in a zpack tent during a blustery thunderstorm.
Agreed weight seems to almost be a religion in the U.S , not sure why , fashion ?, they do seem to carry awfully light packs, far lighter than my day pack i carry around town or to work, 12-14 Kgs average.
A day walk sees me with 18-20 kgs, two days 35 kgs min.
This also seems to be reflected in their tent choices as you point out, to me effectiveness in the prevailing climate is the only important consideration.
I use a combination of an issue hootchie, a carinthia bivvy bag, an issue high roof dome tent for hot climates or a snugpak bunker for cold climates depending on circumstances, when hiking solo i usually just have the bivvy and hootchie.
@@peterjones4180 The UL kit favored in the US is perfectly adequate to the climate that most people are using it in. People use this gear for 1000s of km and 100s of nights because the vast majority of hiking in the US is during summer months and below treeline. The high wind, heavy precipitation and dangerous temperatures experienced in alpine conditions in the EU, highlands in the UK and in this case, Iceland represent less than 1% of the expected conditions for a backpacker in the US. It's not fashion, it's using the best possible kit for the most likely conditions you will experience.
I have both the tent depicted in this video and also burly mountaineering tents from Hilleburg and Black Diamond. I use the proper equipment for the conditions I am likely to experience, but weight is always a consideration. Less weight means more comfort, more miles, more experiences. But safety is the primary concern. I would not have taken the Duplex to iceland, I would have used my BD First Light, if solo; or my Hilleburg Nammataj if with a partner. Much heavier than the duplex, but they would have shrugged off the wind and precip Dixie experience with ease, and they are relatively lightweight for their capability.
Everyone can benefit from UL techniques, everyone can evaluate their kit and substitute lighter gear or eliminate extraneous items. But safety is always the primary concern; the only issue is when our fear of the unknown is conflated with our desire for safely experiencing outdoor environments that can be at times, extreme.
This is solid. It's just different conditions. Most people in the US are hiking along the most popular established hiking trails in the Appalachian trail corridor. "High" elevation there is around 2km. While extreme conditions can occur in the winter months, 99% of people are hiking in the summer when temperatures will be in the 10s C even at night. You have to actively search for areas to get above treeline or experience any true exposure. Even if winds will reach 100kmph in a thunderstorm, down in the trees you are sheltered, and worst case - if you lose your tent you're not in conditions that will kill you.
Thus, weight, and comfort while hiking is the major concern. In the western US precipitation is so rare, (outside of the PNW) your tent is more of a comfort item than an actual necessity. Much better to invest in a really good sleeping bag and bivy. Conversely in the Alps, PNW, in the Scottish highlands; mountainous terrain where a storm can literally kill you and weather reports are guidelines at best; safety is the primary concern.
@@jgalt99 Well thats a difference between you and me, comfort is not a factor for me in terms of weight nor k's marched as regardless of weight i plan the same k's, the only difference is the time it takes to complete the days bound.
I have never seen the need myself to lighten a load, i select the equipment i need for the march and carry it, i dont weigh any of my gear items though i do have an idea of what
my pack weighs by how it feels, having long ago weighed full packs to establish a baseline.
I myself just do not see lighter packs as a desirable, outcome just unimportant.
I agree with your appreciation of the tent used in Iceland, a more robust heavier tent would have been more appropriate.
Perhaps my former military background has formed the perspective i have.
I use Mystery Ranch and Crossfire Australia military packs and associated military equipment from my Armored Corps days.
Very honest appraisal of both the tent and your errors. Wrapping the guy lines around the rocks before pegging them out (which may then not even be necessary) is even better than just putting the rocks on top. You can buy some tiny alligator clips and add a small length of paracord to clip onto the side panels to prevent that flapping (if they held up in that wind) ! Also adding extra peak guys (the guys themselves weight next to nothing of course so stay in the pack unless necessary).
Most of my hikes are above the tree line in Scandinavia and Scotland. I anchor my guy lines with stones anytime I can, even if there is no wind. Wind will definitely come when I am asleep 🙂
With all the vibrations, I think the guylines would’ve been cut by the rocks 😬
@@HomemadeWanderlust I put rocks on the top of the stakes, guylines are free to move round. If stakes can't go into the ground I lay them horizontally under the rock without touching the line. I also have paracord(2-3 feet total)for lines extension under/around the rock for that reason. Never had line breaking so far. Good point though. Thank you for your hard work. Be safe.
Worth noting is that thru hiking trail are for the most part very sanitized and controlled hiking experiences, don't get me wrong it's hard enough. But, you do mostly fine if your tent or sleeping bags for some reason breaks, most of the gear that are used by thru hikers are by no means suited to bring on off trail camping for example on the arctic tundra or in the northern boreal forest in the shoulder season.
I was backpacking with my Duplex in Western Washington and the wind got so bad on the 2nd night that I had to get out of my tent twice to reset my stakes, even though I thought I had secured them decently with large rocks. The profile on the Duplex probably isn't the best for high winds, but I don't really blame the Duplex that much as the soil was a bit sandy/loose and I wasn't expecting high winds, so I was using mini-Groundhogs to stake out the corners which is where the failure occurred. I was using regular Groundhogs for the vestibules. But, on the bright side, it wasn't raining when I had to get out of my tent. :)~
It's not just your Duplex. Iceland is hard on all tents, particularly backpacking tents. Hilleberg's did tend to do better. I hiked the Laugavegur in '09 and had planned to do the extension to Skogar. Unfortunately there was bad weather and the rangers wouldn't let anyone hike out of Landmannalaugar for two days, leaving me short on time. Even at that protected location, almost all the tents were struggling to stay up. Some of them were completely flattened. I was one of the few that stubbornly stuck with my tent. Almost everyone else there brought their sleeping bags into the coed bathroom and slept on the floor. I had to step around everyone to get to the sink to brush my teeth. My Tarptent Rainbow did this sort of bending over thing. Picture a dog that lays it's front legs down but keeps it's hind end in the air. Half of the tent was up and the other half was flattened down over my face and torso. The stakes all held, but a fabric loop ripped off the outside of the tent and I ended up with a couple of punctures from trying to use trekking poles to add support. I love my Rainbow, but I don't think I'd take it back to Iceland. I'd definitely hike there again, though!
I was worried for you on that one Dixie 😳 and that situation is a nightmare for me 🥺. I too like DCF, but I opted for HMG Echo II instead of Zpacks for the same reason. No water in the tent, no wind knocking it down. Not being able to be out of the elements was a deal breaker for me. But all gear involves trade-offs. With the Echo II it's hard for a lot of people to sit up in the tent even near the trekking pole. We were in the whites for Labor Day weekend and we got flooded out BIG time with torrential downpours that lasted 2 whole days and over night. There was inches of water around the tent and so much wind but the shelter was solid. It really saved my dog and I. No wind issues and no water in the tent at all. I couldn't believe how well it did, but I figured it would because HMG is a Maine company and if they can make Whites worthy tents then we're golden. I was so so so so so happy with it and it's the tent I'm taking to hike the AT nobo in spring of 2023 solo. My family was worried until they realized it was warm and dry in my tent. I had no experience with these tents when I bought a trekking pole supported tension shelter. And it didn't come with instructions either, but I got it done in the end.
Hi Dixie, I hike a lot in the mountains. I think the Zpacks tents perform nicely above tree line. But I prefer the smaller ones here. The Plex Solo performed very well on my last trip. The only thing I did, when I knew a storm was announced, was to pile up stones in the gaps under the vestibule doors and all around the tent as well. A smaller tent has less surface area for the wind to act on.
Great idea about stacking rocks to fill in that gap!
I just pitched my Duplex so low to the ground that it was almost impossible for wind to get up underneath it. Definitely pitch adjustment could / would mitigate alot of what I saw in this video. Best of luck on the trails!
I have the duplex also, and I recently watched a video on this topic recommending how to set it up, in really windy conditions. I think that’s a great tip!
While I don’t use Hillebergs in the warmer months as I prefer tarps, I do use them in the colder nastier weather.
I own and use the Soulo, Allak2, and Allak3… All fully freestanding tents… I find The Soulo to be the perfect choice at giving the most protection while still being manageable with weight. The others I will split the load between myself and my son or wife..
A great place to see how well tents do in wind is PCT Days which happens in Cascade Locks, an area of the Columbia River Gorge that is popular with windsurfers. You get to see all the cottage manufacturers put up their tents in front of their stands (and hundreds more PCT thru hiker tents on Thunder Island) and how they fare in the wind. Suffice it to say, I was not impressed with Zpacks products.
I haven't experienced extreme conditions in my Durston X-Mid yet, but I'm pretty confident it'll do a better job for the same weight.
It all boils down to your personal experience and how much safety you want. As you have shown it is possible to use an ultralight tent in this area if you have the experience. But in these areas going ultralight certainly has its limitations. In my estimation this situation could have easily gone sideways for less experienced people. Also you were lucky, that the storm calmed down in the morning. I would certainly recommend to use a four season tent, maybe a Hilleberg or a Helsport that is actually made for these conditions. These companies have year long experience and make their tents specifically with conditions like these in mind. I certainly would not feel safe in a duplex in these high winds, plus you have a problem if everything gets soaked. I rather have a few kilos more on my back than have one night like that.
Yep. I won't go alpine without a Hilleberg.
Yup! I use helsport fonnfjell pro 2 year round when in the mountains 😅
I’ve been in some bad storms, sideways rain, etc. and I’ve been ok. I’d love to get something like a Hilleberg, but I simply don’t need that level of protection where I camp. But for that environment, I’d say something bombproof is in order! Glad you made it through!
Thanks for making this video, I have a lot more confidence in dyneema tents now. I cant wait to hear your opinion and review on the Durston X-Mid Pro. I saw a comment earlier that said they saw a few X-mids out on that same trail that performed phenomenally!
That was a rough night, for sure! Handled with grace and grit! The NammatJ 2 is often in videos of hikes for England's Lake District, Scotish Highlands, and Scandinavian hikes. Those are all hikes mostly above the tree line and at higher altitudes and generally rotten weather, so the tent must be good. Probably heavier and more expensive, but sturdiness, warmth, and safety in bad weather is top priority in those situations.
Thats what I found as well with the Duplex. If there is significant wind and rain, the doors will flap, and where they overlap it will create a very effective spray tool that will spray everything inside constantly.
We use a zpacks triplex, learned to use full size msr groundhog stakes for the 4 corners and 2 vestibules and minis for the rest. Also learning the big rock/little rock setup for bad weather is a better option than small stakes. Above treeline hiking, we just use our msr hubba hubba after a bad lightning storm at guitar lake before mt whitney.
Zpacks does make a freestanding kit for pitching in windy and rocky conditions, but only for the duplex. It still won't behave like a regular double wall freestanding tent, but it's a big improvement in high winds.
I recently purchased this for testing in some windy conditions coming up on the Trans-Catalina Trail. I’ve scheduled the Laugavegur Trail for Summer 2024, so I’ll see how it holds up with the extra kit prior to going.
Are you coming to New Zealand to hike Te Araroa? You have inspired me to do it this year, and it would be great to see you out on the trail.
Man! That was quite a windy night! I am glad you and the tent weathered it!
I had a similar experience in the Whites with my Duplex (not XL). I lowered my tent but the windy rain still filled my tent with mist. It held up ok, and fortunately the next day was sunny so everything dried out.
Dixie thanks for sharing this info. Plan on hiking the Pennine Way next year. Leaving the duplex at home and take my Mld Duomid
Bivys can be a better choice in the wind. The lower profile makes them fair well especially inside of the rock rings.
I laugh each time I watch the clip of that fateful night, tent flapping wildly and you exclaiming, “Ohhh, man!” You’re a tough and lovely person.
I will never use a dyneema tent in Scandinavia for sure. In a Dyneema tent the risk og hypothermia, wind rain cold getting in the tent are higher. Once i had to start hiking because that shelter could not be reliable up in the mountains. I came to the car 4 in the morning, and slept there.
SilNylon 4 season Tent all the for me know 👌Saved my life too in my Across Norway little Thruhike, cought in another storm with my wife.
Dixie, I've followed your videos since you hiked the Appalachian Trail.
Thanks for all the great info you give. You are one of the very best when it comes to "how you do it," and "what you need to do it with."
Thanks so very much, Dixie!
I had a pretty windy night on the CT this summer (nothing as crazy as your Icelandic adventure). I stacked rocks on the stakes and woke up to a frayed guy line. it was down to a few strings by the morning. So there's that to take into account as well.
Err, yea. For alpine conditions you really want an alpine tent. If your casual backpacking, then sure, go light weight. The material of the DupleXL is great, its the design that's the problem - its little more than a glorified tarp.
I am hiking the cdt sobo, my 2nd week hail shredded my plex solo .9 holes, weekend the dcf pretty bad a bunch of tiny micro holes . I'm honestly pretty nervous to go through the San Juan's with it :( I had a little bit of frozen condensation 4 days ago and it completely sank in..I will never buy from zpacks again .
I was on this trail in July this year and remember your first camping spot well. We briefly stopped at the hut for water & continued on to the next hut by the lake with the bar/restaurant. Although the visibility was similar, the wind was no where near as bad as you experienced. The ground for tent pegs is not good as it is broken up clinker over bedrock, so anchoring with rocks (consisting of black glass there!) is probably the only way.
Also Hyperlite Ultamid is pretty good, despite being tall. Also watch some of the videos by backpackers in Scotland and Britain's Lake District where there is no tree cover.
Yeah, the winds in Iceland were always way stronger than what we expected. Having windproof cloth is important there. Well windproof everything is important there.
Thanks, Dixie. Looking forward to your take on the new Durston Pro!
I am currently working on some new tent stakes that hopefully solve this issue, but still weigh only 15 grams. I believe in protecting your expensive investment and will not go through another anchor failure again.
I use the SOL breath sac and for only 5 ounces it ensure no wet sleeping. SOL makes a 8 ounce sac with hood that I have used in full rain exposure.
Wouldn't have helped the door situation, but I always have an extra pair of tie outs in my repair kit so I can extend for rock or root ground stakes. Having been through 4 tornados, I don't take wind for granted. Those extra tie outs also have a 100 extra uses on trail and around camp from making a hasy tripod, line for a gravity filter, extra shoe lace, pack lashings, clothes line, etc.
I'm happy to see someone finally revealing (or should I say unveiling) the ultra-obvious, numerous and potentially very seriously lacking shortcomings with this particular tent style in more demanding conditions. Of note: This includes in many forms... tents sharing lineage w/ similar design limitations like the Durston, others you mentioned, Lanshan 2 etc. Simply a poor shelter selection no matter the weight/space savings, materials, cost, features/components, accessories, etc. In high exposure areas and venturing with trekking pole designs... there is no substitute for pyramidal, pentagonal, and hexagonal single center-pole up tipi-type 4-season tents plus suitable staking w/ cordage kit. To be 'matter-of-fact' the 'no-zip' doorway is just laughably deficient. A good thing to keep in perspective here is the what if considerations: What if there were no rock encirclements, none available to already taken, (or you had to take the time to make your own)? This Z-P tent is bush-league for demanding, harsh conditions, high-exposure camps. If going single-wall for these conditions and Dyneema... I'd go Hyperlite Ultamid. In this case, an Ultimid and using good stakes... you'd have avoided every shortcoming addressed with the exception of single wall condensation scenarios.
This place (Alftavatn) is well known to be windy because close to a mountain top, and the rock walls are set up there permanently to protect people. If dispersed camping would be allowed noone would choose this place as campsite, and look for something with better protection instead. But you have to use the sites aside the huts in Iceland's highland.
Your single center-pole tent depends on the guy lines and thus tent pegs the same as a dual pole tent, or even more. I see no advantage. Secure your tent pegs well, and you are a happy camper :)
First, epic trip and video Dixie! Iceland is a place I've dreamed of visiting. Perhaps one day I will. As for your tent. That's a tough one. Just looking at the profile and setup of your tent I'm left feeling it is probably not the best design for such high wind locations? Just a guess on my part, but I'm left feeling that perhaps a conical shaped shelter might be best for high wind locales? Pyramid / tipi style/lavuu shelters seem to be the go to for cultures that live in extreme climates where the wind and the snow can really pile it on. That said, I also believe that most of their strength comes from the pole framework that supports the skin, which would be of little help for a backpacker as no one is going to lug all those poles about. As you well know, there are pyramid/conical tent offerings that are made to be erected with a single trekking pole in the center with numerous tie outs around the tent. A backpacking friend of mine has such a tent and he loves his. He did make a trip to Iceland a couple of years ago, but I'm not sure what tent he used while hiking and camping there. I'll have to check with him and see what he used and if he encountered the winds you did. Concerning stakes. I recently made up some stakes from 1/2 inch oak that I cut into 1/2 square pegs. Pointed them and cut notches for tie outs as I've become disenchanted with metal or plastic stakes that always seem to bend or pull free at the most inopportune times. On a recent hike I discovered that these stakes seem to hold very well in loose, marginal soil albeit I did not have to contend with high winds like you did. The stakes don't seem to be much heavier than most of my metal stakes, they don't bend like metal stakes and they seem to have superior grip in marginal soil. Still too soon to give them my complete endorsement, but I plan to continue to use and test them in different situations and evaluate their performance. One advantage the wood stakes has over metal or plastic is that they seem to swell ever so slightly after insertion into the soil and I believe it is this slight swelling that helps them grip better? Food for thought anyways. E-mail me at; garywood702@msn.com with any questions or comments. Love your content, keep up the great work!
Nice discussion. BIG rocks (slip stakes through the gaps in rock wall). Pyramid designs (for trekking pole tents) may have helped.
Like that here in Tasmania, especially in alpine areas.
Always need a 4 season tent. We can’t really go UL weight here. You need to carry a lot of heavier weighted gear. It can snow any day of the week, any day of the year.
Yes .....sometimes you just can't go super lightweight. I saw a few people that carried like 10 ibuprofen and a small roll of tape as their first aid kit.....no joke. I also have a friend that camped in Denali much like she did in Iceland......he thought he was going to freeze to death. He brought everything too light.... including shoes.
@@bmphil3400 absolutely! I’d rather have everything I need than make a sub 10lb pack… my life is worth more than being an UL hiker.
I even follow a guy on here who is a self proclaimed UL Hiker, and even he took a 20kg/44lb pack. But that was in Autumn, and on the Overland Track, where you need to carry anywhere between 5-10 days of food (dependent on whether you walk the main track, or do side trips as well). It’s in the remotest part of Tassie, and there’s no roads to walk or hitchhike to a shop… just you, your pack, and the wilderness - just the way I like it!
@@bmphil3400 Denali is something completely different. You should realize that less than 100 yards from this campsite is a building where you could retreat in a real emergency.
Dyneema is the future. The DupleXL is a great design for most hiking. I have a Black Diamond First Light with free standing internal frame that would withstood that storm better, maybe, but it would be miserable in most three season hiking that you do. It is my winter Wyoming tent but I di use it in Spring and fall when expecting mixed weather and wind. I love those rock rings. Thank you for this conversation.
My question is why is this a topic after so long. Didn’t you use this tent during your PCT and CDT hikeS? I used the Zpack last summer during the JMT and I experienced all the horrible weather related issues you can think of. Even when camping while hiking Mount Charleston near Vegas in another opportunity, I learned to collapse the tent with me inside because the wind was insane. This is an ok tent but hope for no wind conditions and/or low humidity. Oh, and the condensation inside can be alarming. I had to wake up twice every night to wipe it down. yes, is light, and that is a plus, but there are a few trades to do for that to become a benefit.
I had the same issues with mine on the AT. Zpacks was no help and didn’t seem to want the feedback. I’m looking for a different tent for future trips.
The Dipole 2 is likely to be more wind-resistant than even the X-Mid Pro 2. That said, the X-Mid will probably do better than the DupleXL in the wind because you can pitch it so low.
Jessica, On my way to work this morning you were on my heart. I hope all is well. If it is, fantastic and continued blessings and success to you. If things are tough, know I am praying for you. I am not sure why I was thinking about how you are doing, either spiritually or physically. But please know you were on my heart this morning, and I prayed for you! Be safe and well, and keep up the wonderful work. Iceland looked amazing!
Wind? Try a Stevenson Warmlite tent. Got mine in 1973 and still in use.
So it wasn't an issue with the tent but the stakes?
Looking at that ground you'd struggle to get any stake to hold.
I've put my Plex solo and stratospire li through some pretty bad wind and like yourself the tent strength was never a worry. In my experience the stakes are the weak point.
those big vestibule gaps turn the tent into a sail if strong wind can get in.
@@Kevinschart My biggest issue with the Plex solo is when you can't get proper tension on the fabric. In high winds in peak District I've nailed my Plex solo to the hill with no gap around it and only 2" under the doors. As long as the doors are kept tight you have no issues.
Great video Dixie! The hiking videos were amazing, especially the volcano, thanks for the entertainment, education, and being you!
I'm curious if a corkscrew type stake would have worked better or would it have been too rocky.
Wow it does look that you had harsh weather! We just hike the same trail as you on 1/9-5/9 and we had just a little bit of rain in two nights and that’s all. But we did waited a little bit for the good weather before we started the hike.
Sleeping in tent gives you great flexibility in that trek, compare to a hat that you need to book in advance and than you need to go no matter what the weather is
The design of the Zpack's Duplex makes it a terrible tent if there is any wind at all. This is due to the ventilation going around the bottom of the entire tent. It is like having no walls at all around the area where you sleep. If you can "sleep" with cold air blasting at you all night and not get sick then this is the tent for you. It does not provide protection from the wind or the cold. A freestanding double walled tent where the walls go all the way the ground will protect against the wind and the cold and is the best bet for conditions like these. Unfortunately they are heavier and that is the trade off.
In my experience, I agree with your points, and to add I prefer tents that have a more rounded top for windy conditions (also setting them up in a way to be better aerodynamic-wise though it looks like that night in Iceland any tent would of had issues even with the most ideal setup).
I own a few tents and I own a Duplex, but I would never have brought my Duplex to Iceland. You need the correct tool for the job. Maybe Hilleberg would have been a better choice.
I would definitely take the DupleXL again in the future, but it’s not the best choice for everyone
@@HomemadeWanderlust That is great to hear because to be honest it’s my favorite tent of all. I am older and the lightness has really helped to keep me hiking and hiking some real miles. I just got off the Long Trail in Vermont and I can’t imagine carrying a heavy tent ever again. That looks like an awesome trip. Take care
I had to turn the cc on, to hear where you went. All I could understand/hear was ‘ashland’, that would even be a better name for Iceland!
"Assland" cracks me up. 😁
At 1:35 it appears the vestibule door was unzipped I’m the middle of the stem event . Did the zipper fail?
Would you please post your Iceland gear list? Thank you.
If the vestibule doors were crossed over and staked individually then secured additionally with rocks it might have held the stakes better.
Great video, ultralight and extreme conditions tents are often very different.
You're looking lean.
That wind was gnarly.
I would have brought the heavy duty set up.
There is a free standing pole option for the standard duplex. I don’t know if it exists for this one.
If you don't mind, just how many miles have you covered over the years. (not counting the back tracking to get your camara)? Thank you again for the trip
Dixie I love the Black Diamond Eldorado. Fends of wind, weather and maybe even Sasquatch! Point taken though, I don’t tote heavy camera gear.
You should take a look at winter tents.
A bivey is the best choice for wind like that. They are low to the ground and there aren't stakes like a tent has.
I would think a double wall tent with more of a frame would have helped a lot.
Thanks for the videos from Iceland. I'm taking to the misses about hiking in Iceland in a few years based on your video.
I'm unsure why some backpacking tent manufactures make vestibules that can't hug tight to the ground while maintaining adequate bathtub floor height. Even without much wind the splashing from a heavy rain can soak the floor on such tents. Moderate to heavy wind makes it even worse. I assume these manufactures are cutting necessary functionality to save weight, but when you are trying to sleep and are getting wet, the tiny weight saving has little value in those moments.
That wind is quite common in the UK...
A possible easy hack would be to apply Velcro tabs on the vestibule overlaps in lieu of zipper.
What if you had staked the tent down but not have put up the polls, crawled in and let it lay flat on the ground? Just asking.
I wonder Zpacks would take this as a signal to develop a DupleXtreme. 🤔
They have the Free line that is explicitly made for more extreme environments. The Plex line are fair weather tents by design.
Wow, that was really blowing!
Been reading the comments, looks like the consensus is... Hilleberg is your next tent. Expensive, heavier, and out of stock! They must be good.
You really needed a tent with a skirt in those conditions. It would have stopped the wind. You just needed to put rocks on the skirt around the tent. You would have been pretty cozy.
welcome to the xmid family. you can set them up really close to ground or really high. the vestibule gap on the duplex is the main reason i'll never buy one.
Thats why I got the Durston Xmid Pro! No door gaps and a lot more stormworthy!
yep. you can raise or lower the xmid as you like.
Good Review. Thank you!
If you want the absolute bomb proof and are willing to carry the weight you probably need the Hilleberg. Also, integral fly and inner pitch for the win.
Thank you for posting this, even if it's not the perfect result - it makes the video grounded. I appreciate it. I'd love to see you try similar conditions in the winter. That's when things gets interesting. ;)
Prior to pitching a tent, one must ensure that the wind is facing the most favourable aerodynamics of the tent, in this intance the angled side is the most favourable. The front flaps with or without zippers should never face the wind. When windy, this type of tent should have its outer shell low and not allowing for any wind to enter the inside of the tent. When in nordic countries, I would prefer to carry a 4 season tent irrespective on the time of the year.
And then the wind changes directions in an hour lol
@@HomemadeWanderlust Hejjj Dixie! Greetings from sunny Malta! We're a very small island in the med and we do get alot of strong winds :)) Some companies do leave the zippers out because of the weight factor and the cost issue. Zippers will stop the wind from coming into the tent and stops it from flying away. On windy days, keep the pole short so the outer shell is no more then 1" above the ground. On warm days, the poles could be extended to allow for a nice breeze to come in. Probably, your design could have the back pole shorter then the front one and allow for the back to face the wind. In any case, from the video l estimate that the winds there where a gale force 6 or 7, that is the maximum most tents can take.
Did you get to see any super cool dogs? Loved your trip