On the Western National in the 60s/70s we had separate number and destination blinds. These only appeared on the front. There were no blinds on the rear or sides. When we had, say a FLF from another region, we could still use the numbers but the destination blinds could only be used if they had destinations such as depot or city centre! Plymouth to Bristol Temple Meads - I don't think so!
Never have had the chance to see Busses/Trams/LRTs/Trains with Destination Blinds sadly. Only saw the Dot-Matrix and LEDs, and I can say this with certainty I HATE the Dot-Matrix displays. In daylight, yes they can be seen pretty well, but once the night comes in and some lamps illuminate the board you can be very unlucky at times to not make out at all where the vehicle is heading to. They were prone to fail with some dots just being stuck in the on/off position - I can remember one bus which had one display so badly damaged you could say "Ah, this one goes straight to the pit of despair".
@derg_txt Ah yes I've seen those displays myself. It doesn't help with the dot matrix as they're lit from the front which can sometimes reflect off the actual display. LEDs are obviously self illuminated and proper blinds are lit up from behind making them both much easier to see at night.
The old roller destination blinds were a pain, you had to be a contortionist to wind and read the blinds, guaranteed that when changing the blind destinations were at opposite ends of the roll! Over time the blinds would slip and show incorrect route number and destination!
The LED blinds may be more difficult to photograph but it does allow operators to be more flexible. One of the rail replacement companies has managed to get the rear number box on (London/Ex London) to have a scrolling destination - right to left single line) as well as others putting either a LT Roundel or BR Totem in it to indicate what kind of rail replacement they were on.
I seefrom this video, you must have a healthy collection of blinds. I have 2 London destination sets, one presumably from the Ealing/Shepherds Bush area and a country area one from what was Addlestone garage, where I grew up. I made a frame for them and rolled them on to broom handles, which means they can be put in the frame and wound, so you can change the blinds from time to time. A couple of lamps behind and they look quite realistic in the den (Man cave in modern parlance)!
@@briangentle5515 That's brilliant Brian. I did a similar thing when I was younger. Was quite cozy in the room when it was lit up. I've got more destination blinds than buses!
I was a driver at Barton in the late 90's when they changed from numbers to connections, I was driving the old 6 now the keyworth connection. Passengers were a little confused and thought it was an advert for a new shop. Do bus services really need branding? Now it's about colours and people don't even know it's different bus companies.
@JakeSCOC people just want a reliable service. I have been driving on the bee network recently, it's not perfect but it will offer value for money once it's all ironed out. Trent Barton turned into a marketing company not a service provider. They claim it's Trent Barton land, false advertising in my book.
Round here (Surrey/Hampshire) Stagecoach have just put the old route numbers back on the routes that had names only (Kite, Yo-Yo etc.). Well-done to them for using the original historic numbers again (20, 6).
RT and RM Buses (And others) (STLs and the Early RTs) Roof Light Box for Service Number, Main Destinations served , then ultimate below that - changed by driver at end of root ) Then experiments with Route number on the left or right as the wooden top boxes were prone to damage. (St Helens didnt really get its RT destinations looking "right"). whilst having a slip board clips and provision on the nearside front window ( often used for raceday specials ), under canopy route number too , but how much use really was that ( meant as a bus pulled up queuing folk could still see the route even as front was not visible ).
Hi i'm viatron from Sheffield once again, I remember Ribble Motor Traction who did have double deck buses fitted with the Scottish style triangular destination blinds plus they are some Ribble buses in preservation like the Alexander rebodied Leyland Titan TD5, the Burlingham bodied Leyland Titan PD2/12 half cab versions & the Leyland Titan PD3/4 & PD3/5 full fronted examples with one bodied by Burlingham & the other one bodied by M.C.W. which always shows X61 to BLACKPOOL on the front of them. Thank you for your co-operation on this very special vintage bus blinds on old buses subject from David Viatron Esquire of crookes in Sheffield. P.S. I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year for 2025 & keep those classic bus videos coming on your E.C.W. bodied Bristol VRT6LXB SL2 front entrance rear engined double deck bus.
20 odd years ago Arriva issued gardening gloves to drivers for winding the blinds. They'd get you in the office and make you sign for them. It was all a bit too much H&S for me so I used them to do my garden with instead.
I think this obsession with H&S started with First because of Ladbroke Grove in 2000ish. Firstgroup started making their drivers wear hi viz vests, which makes bus drivers look like bin men!
@@MaxCawthrayWhen I was driving for First (2018-19) the rule (at our depot, anyway) was high-vis outside the bus only (e.g. at hand overs or walking around the depot), never on board or in the driving seat.
@@adamlee3772 Thanks Adam. I believe that London requires them as they're more legible than the LED display. I must admit it does make it interesting when a bus turns up from a former London operator on what we're going to do. Continue with paper blinds or fit it with LED displays.
Dont Forget Bornemouth Coporation , destination in one blind on the right, a via point or note below that , route number in box on left but another box , often with a solid colour blind , below that , what was that for ?
@@adrianbanks2089 Thanks Adrian. Merry Christmas to you too. Enjoy! I'm off at the weekend, working Christmas eve, off Christmas day and back in on Boxing Day. Joys of Christmas in the bus industry....
This was fascinating. Thanks for the video. I knew the slip boards as tramboards. Do you know who invented the destination blinds? LRT now Lothian had a distinct style as did LT/London Buses but both eventually became much the same due to DDA regulations stating it could be confusing to have multiple places listed on the front of the bus. But personally (and I have Asperger’s/ASD) I found the original styles more useful, and of course more visually appealing
@@leylandlynxvlog Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. I don't know if it was invented by one particular person. More likely it evolved - the bus industry tends to be more evolutionary than revolutionary! I think well maintained black on white blinds are easier to read than LED or dot matrix too.
There is a "cut up and framed" example in a pub close to my local bus station in Belper, Derbyshire. Formerly Trent territory, now trentbarton (their spelling)
I used to collect blinds , but due to lack of space I think I passed them on to London Bus Museum , one had come from a coach, I forget the destination but I think it had been wound to one "destination" and been in the coach so long that the linen had nearly rotted on eiether side.
On the metro it had a small flap for the destination and the handle was inside but boy you could rap your knuckles as the space was tight ,but keying in and the motorised ones much better and now in London new buses are fitted with really bright white electronic LED type boards and a return at the rear to showing its destination ,as for old blinds anyone in the Hounslow area ever recall seeing a 237 blind in a houses bathroom window that was one of our service controllers at the brook 😂😂 Cheers Mark 😊😊
With the modern system of showing a timing point due to the driver's hours rather than the actual destination I wonder what the most of these changes you get on a single trip?The most I've seen is 3 on the Newcastle Berwick service run by Arriva North East;first:Showing Morpeth,then Alnwick and then Berwick!Same bus and seems to be the same driver Newcastle to Alnwick!
I was surprised these modern setups aren't as sophisticated as they could be, or they aren't set up as well as they could be. A destination with a long scrolling list of vias, the bus knows where it is as there is an internal "next stop" display but the via list doesn't remove the places it's already been. If you're not local you may not know the route and whether it's going there next or has just come from there.
@NiallWardrop Yes that was exactly the problem we had at Regent Coaches. Was more confusing than anything else. They have that system on the trains where it only shows the next stops rather than the previous ones too
@@JakeSCOC It was particularly confusing in Concord bus station as all busses pass through it in the same direction, the service I wanted stops at adjacent stances in both directions around the same time, so a bus arrives at about the right time with the right place on the front and the right number...
@@unclenolly3207 Hahaha no. You can stay Uncle Nolly. They only annoy us as bus owners as they're often historic and perfectly good blinds that would be the finishing touch for a preserved bus. It also tends to push the prices up for us too. Which one do you have?
@ I never thought about the preservation side of things and now see your point. I’ll upset you even more because I’ve just got SHEFFIELD, so the blind was chopped up and individual destinations sold separately. According to the chap I bought it from it was actually from a tram. I’ve got it in a blue frame with a cream border - Sheffield Transport livery. Did you happen to see Antiques Road Trip yesterday? One of the experts bought a load of destination blinds for £20 and sold them, at auction, for over £200.
On the Western National in the 60s/70s we had separate number and destination blinds. These only appeared on the front. There were no blinds on the rear or sides. When we had, say a FLF from another region, we could still use the numbers but the destination blinds could only be used if they had destinations such as depot or city centre! Plymouth to Bristol Temple Meads - I don't think so!
@@melrice2 Always strange to get a different bus to the area that's still fitted with it's original blinds isn't it Mel?
I Was at Sidcup Garage Kent ! The First Bus out was 0430 Route 21 To London Bridge / Moorgate 😊
@@adrianbanks2089 Yikes that's early. We have starts like that where I work fortunately on another rota 😂
It was easier to photograph buses with the old blinds rather than the modern led ones.
Used to make the blinds when I worked at East Kent coachworks in Canterbury.
@@RichardMoon-m1k Wow that's a real skill there. Screen printed weren't they? I love to have a go at that.
Never have had the chance to see Busses/Trams/LRTs/Trains with Destination Blinds sadly. Only saw the Dot-Matrix and LEDs, and I can say this with certainty I HATE the Dot-Matrix displays. In daylight, yes they can be seen pretty well, but once the night comes in and some lamps illuminate the board you can be very unlucky at times to not make out at all where the vehicle is heading to. They were prone to fail with some dots just being stuck in the on/off position - I can remember one bus which had one display so badly damaged you could say "Ah, this one goes straight to the pit of despair".
@derg_txt Ah yes I've seen those displays myself. It doesn't help with the dot matrix as they're lit from the front which can sometimes reflect off the actual display. LEDs are obviously self illuminated and proper blinds are lit up from behind making them both much easier to see at night.
YES, remember the triangle ones the SBG used...
Ah the locally (to me) built Volvo Ailsa, bring it on 👍👍👍
@@craigsibley8161 Working on it as we speak Craig. I think it won't disappoint!
The old roller destination blinds were a pain, you had to be a contortionist to wind and read the blinds, guaranteed that when changing the blind destinations were at opposite ends of the roll! Over time the blinds would slip and show incorrect route number and destination!
@@WOLFIE-96B-UK Yes totally agree there. They tended to be alphabetical rather than practical didn't they?
The LED blinds may be more difficult to photograph but it does allow operators to be more flexible. One of the rail replacement companies has managed to get the rear number box on (London/Ex London) to have a scrolling destination - right to left single line) as well as others putting either a LT Roundel or BR Totem in it to indicate what kind of rail replacement they were on.
@@highpath4776 I set those up for Regent Coaches with scrolling destinations. Later found out they're potentially not DDA compliant 😂
I seefrom this video, you must have a healthy collection of blinds. I have 2 London destination sets, one presumably from the Ealing/Shepherds Bush area and a country area one from what was Addlestone garage, where I grew up. I made a frame for them and rolled them on to broom handles, which means they can be put in the frame and wound, so you can change the blinds from time to time. A couple of lamps behind and they look quite realistic in the den (Man cave in modern parlance)!
@@briangentle5515 That's brilliant Brian. I did a similar thing when I was younger. Was quite cozy in the room when it was lit up.
I've got more destination blinds than buses!
I was a driver at Barton in the late 90's when they changed from numbers to connections, I was driving the old 6 now the keyworth connection. Passengers were a little confused and thought it was an advert for a new shop. Do bus services really need branding? Now it's about colours and people don't even know it's different bus companies.
@@Justamandoinghisthing I don't think you can beat proper route numbers.
@JakeSCOC people just want a reliable service. I have been driving on the bee network recently, it's not perfect but it will offer value for money once it's all ironed out. Trent Barton turned into a marketing company not a service provider. They claim it's Trent Barton land, false advertising in my book.
@Justamandoinghisthing Yes that's very dodgy ground in today's world where everyone takes everything literally!
Round here (Surrey/Hampshire) Stagecoach have just put the old route numbers back on the routes that had names only (Kite, Yo-Yo etc.). Well-done to them for using the original historic numbers again (20, 6).
@surreygoldprospector576 Nice when they use original numbers isn't it?
RT and RM Buses (And others) (STLs and the Early RTs) Roof Light Box for Service Number, Main Destinations served , then ultimate below that - changed by driver at end of root ) Then experiments with Route number on the left or right as the wooden top boxes were prone to damage. (St Helens didnt really get its RT destinations looking "right"). whilst having a slip board clips and provision on the nearside front window ( often used for raceday specials ), under canopy route number too , but how much use really was that ( meant as a bus pulled up queuing folk could still see the route even as front was not visible ).
@@highpath4776 Yes you tend to forget how vulnerable those top roof boxes were. I bet they leaked a bit too!
Hi i'm viatron from Sheffield once again, I remember Ribble Motor Traction who did have double deck buses fitted with the Scottish style triangular destination blinds plus they are some Ribble buses in preservation like the Alexander rebodied Leyland Titan TD5, the Burlingham bodied Leyland Titan PD2/12 half cab versions & the Leyland Titan PD3/4 & PD3/5 full fronted examples with one bodied by Burlingham & the other one bodied by M.C.W. which always shows X61 to BLACKPOOL on the front of them. Thank you for your co-operation on this very special vintage bus blinds on old buses subject from David Viatron Esquire of crookes in Sheffield. P.S. I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year for 2025 & keep those classic bus videos coming on your E.C.W. bodied Bristol VRT6LXB SL2 front entrance rear engined double deck bus.
@@ViatronTumpington Hi David. Thank you for your support over the last year. Merry Christmas to you too.
20 odd years ago Arriva issued gardening gloves to drivers for winding the blinds. They'd get you in the office and make you sign for them. It was all a bit too much H&S for me so I used them to do my garden with instead.
@@MaxCawthray That's crazy. As mad as Stagecoach issuing ear defenders to drive the Leyland PD3....
I think this obsession with H&S started with First because of Ladbroke Grove in 2000ish. Firstgroup started making their drivers wear hi viz vests, which makes bus drivers look like bin men!
@@MaxCawthrayagreed. They swallowed the HSE manual whole..
@MaxCawthray Hi viz have to be worn everywhere. In a dark gloomy bus garage or dark yard I understand but in sunlight in bus station it's a bit OTT
@@MaxCawthrayWhen I was driving for First (2018-19) the rule (at our depot, anyway) was high-vis outside the bus only (e.g. at hand overs or walking around the depot), never on board or in the driving seat.
London operators still use blinds rather than these KED things. Never understood why. Thanks for another video.
@@adamlee3772 Thanks Adam. I believe that London requires them as they're more legible than the LED display. I must admit it does make it interesting when a bus turns up from a former London operator on what we're going to do. Continue with paper blinds or fit it with LED displays.
Dont Forget Bornemouth Coporation , destination in one blind on the right, a via point or note below that , route number in box on left but another box , often with a solid colour blind , below that , what was that for ?
@@highpath4776 Ah yes, that showed the route the bus took through the town (as it was then) if I recall.
Have a Safe Weekend / a Good Christmas ! ( i Will be Going 2 My Sons )😊
@@adrianbanks2089 Thanks Adrian. Merry Christmas to you too. Enjoy! I'm off at the weekend, working Christmas eve, off Christmas day and back in on Boxing Day. Joys of Christmas in the bus industry....
This was fascinating. Thanks for the video. I knew the slip boards as tramboards. Do you know who invented the destination blinds? LRT now Lothian had a distinct style as did LT/London Buses but both eventually became much the same due to DDA regulations stating it could be confusing to have multiple places listed on the front of the bus. But personally (and I have Asperger’s/ASD) I found the original styles more useful, and of course more visually appealing
@@leylandlynxvlog Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. I don't know if it was invented by one particular person. More likely it evolved - the bus industry tends to be more evolutionary than revolutionary!
I think well maintained black on white blinds are easier to read than LED or dot matrix too.
I think there was another company that used to run with so many destinations people thought there was a place called "Relief"
@@highpath4776 Express Relief always made me laugh.
@@highpath4776 reminds me of Private and Part Route, stuff you don’t see any more
Yes i Was With London Transport 50 Years ago 😊
@@adrianbanks2089 Which garage Adrian?
There is a "cut up and framed" example in a pub close to my local bus station in Belper, Derbyshire. Formerly Trent territory, now trentbarton (their spelling)
@@garrymartin6474 Is it a local name they've framed?
I used to collect blinds , but due to lack of space I think I passed them on to London Bus Museum , one had come from a coach, I forget the destination but I think it had been wound to one "destination" and been in the coach so long that the linen had nearly rotted on eiether side.
@@highpath4776 There's always that one destination that's really faded or worn. See the 63 route in this video!
On the metro it had a small flap for the destination and the handle was inside but boy you could rap your knuckles as the space was tight ,but keying in and the motorised ones much better and now in London new buses are fitted with really bright white electronic LED type boards and a return at the rear to showing its destination ,as for old blinds anyone in the Hounslow area ever recall seeing a 237 blind in a houses bathroom window that was one of our service controllers at the brook 😂😂
Cheers
Mark 😊😊
@@marksinthehouse1968 Hi Mark, yes it was worse when the Metro had been fitted with a non London blind box as there were two handles in a small space!
For some reason some 1970s Devon General three track numbers were a pale blue
@@highpath4776 Was that an express service or a conventional service?
@@JakeSCOC normal. just the numbers were blue (got a photo blue, white , blue. maybe they were washed with Daz
@highpath4776 🤣🤣
Rotherham Corporations ( and presumably SYPTE ) "Jump Circular"
@@highpath4776 Yes I've seen those. Looked strange but you knew who the bus belonged to. A bit like Birmingham and the 'Inner Circle'!
I know Rotherham Corporation very well and SYPTE but I don't understand or know this "jump circular" you are referring to.
I remember when I first started in buses the bloody little handel on titans that would stick and your knuckles got skinned
@@johngreene6805 Yes that access hole wasn't that big either. It was a bit like doing keyhole surgery!
The three track number blind for the 5 Express service wasnt very clever
@@highpath4776 How come?
the reason i stopped wearing watches
@@a11csc Apparently DMS cab windows are good for removing them too or so I was told by a former controller at Peckham.
With the modern system of showing a timing point due to the driver's hours rather than the actual destination I wonder what the most of these changes you get on a single trip?The most I've seen is 3 on the Newcastle Berwick service run by Arriva North East;first:Showing Morpeth,then Alnwick and then Berwick!Same bus and seems to be the same driver Newcastle to Alnwick!
It's done as a way of getting round tachograph laws on longer distance routes
@@kevanhubbard9673 we have a route over here that has three changes over four destinations.
I was surprised these modern setups aren't as sophisticated as they could be, or they aren't set up as well as they could be. A destination with a long scrolling list of vias, the bus knows where it is as there is an internal "next stop" display but the via list doesn't remove the places it's already been. If you're not local you may not know the route and whether it's going there next or has just come from there.
@NiallWardrop Yes that was exactly the problem we had at Regent Coaches. Was more confusing than anything else. They have that system on the trains where it only shows the next stops rather than the previous ones too
@@JakeSCOC It was particularly confusing in Concord bus station as all busses pass through it in the same direction, the service I wanted stops at adjacent stances in both directions around the same time, so a bus arrives at about the right time with the right place on the front and the right number...
Erm, would you like me to unsubscribe? I have a framed destination blind!
@@unclenolly3207 Hahaha no. You can stay Uncle Nolly. They only annoy us as bus owners as they're often historic and perfectly good blinds that would be the finishing touch for a preserved bus. It also tends to push the prices up for us too. Which one do you have?
@ I never thought about the preservation side of things and now see your point. I’ll upset you even more because I’ve just got SHEFFIELD, so the blind was chopped up and individual destinations sold separately. According to the chap I bought it from it was actually from a tram. I’ve got it in a blue frame with a cream border - Sheffield Transport livery.
Did you happen to see Antiques Road Trip yesterday? One of the experts bought a load of destination blinds for £20 and sold them, at auction, for over £200.
worse than service - "Not In Service"
@@highpath4776 What about Sorry I'm Not In Service? Very apologetic isn't it?
@@JakeSCOCmy favorite modern one is “Choo choo! I’m a Train!”
@leylandlynxvlog Yes there's some funny ones out there.