Two totally honest witnesses : yes they do exist ! Mr Warmington especially has been so honest regarding where he has gone wrong : no BS from either of them . M
Yes... but he could have acted on the information that he got from Jenkins that Sub Post Office accounts could be and were being manipulated .externally. Instead, in his own words, he 'tucked it away '. He was therefore, on his own admission, knowingly complicit in a cover up.
These wretched NDA’s really messed things up. Very draconian: wonder if the mafia had similar agreements in place if you joined them.! Seems the PO have some common ground with them ! These two decent guys were in a dreadful position and threatened as well !!
More wrongdoing and cover-up revealed, costing innocent people their livelihoods and lives. In addition to compensation, justice must be done with hefty prison sentences.
Fascinating that contractors, Ian Henderson and Ron Warmington do not appear to have any lapses in memory, or responding with "I cant recall or I just don't remember"" to any of the questions posed at the enquiry in stark contrast to the Directors or Managers of the POL. I wonder why...?
Alan Bates was threatened with job loss if he continued to leave cash shortfall and excesses on his accounts records!!!.Mr Bates informed the PO that hundreds of subpostmasters were including them in their accounts and rightly so!!.. he was being honest unlike the POL bunch of lieing incompetents!!
No, it's the point about the Suspense Account.. all shortfalls went into the Suspense Account, and it always had millions annually of payments that couldn't be reconciled, which meant the system was having cash injected into it that couldn't be reconciled (or as we know debts duplicated).. so they took it shoved it into Post Office standard account (read bonuses). Any ERP system where you have a Suspense Account in profit is broken.
I think it unfortunate that two different type accounts are both just called suspense account. They are therefore conflating the suspense accounts that were just in the local Post Office and the suspense account (The very big one) is a corporate suspense account at headquarters. They stopped the local suspense accounts which had nothing to do with the 'corporate suspense accounts" They need to at least say branch suspense account AND corporate suspense account. The attorneys for the subpostmasters are confused.
Wait while they come to pay. Compensation they or somebody will want them to take peanuts if they are spending money on this. And payed bonuses beyond believe the compensation should be at least £1000,000, starting ,do you aggree
I notice quite a lot of praise for these Second Sight Managers and I fear that I cannot agree. To me these two knew what was going on. They could have had no doubt in their minds BUT nonetheless allowed themselves to be silenced which therefore to me betrayed these subpostmasters once again! It has taken another 10 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Genuine question - what could they have done? They had contested oral evidence from an employee, in an unrecorded meeting.. it's the same allegations at that time Michael Rudkin made much more coherently in some ways and it was ignored.. it was still ignored after the Computer Weekly report.. what could they have done? Blown through their NDA, only to be dismissed, possibly sued, and a couple of children from KPMG brought in for another cover up..
BIG pICTURE qUESTION. Did Post Office have the legal authority to 'prosecute their own cases??? While as corrupting and unconscionable as it became, I accept that Royal Mail had that legal authority. I have seen nothing that transfers this superpower to Post Office after the separation. We have seen their attorneys to a one state that they considered this New Post Office client to be a normal commercial enterprise and conducted their efforts accordingly. Both things cannot be true. It cannot be a normal commercial enterprise and also have these superpowers of prosecution. Please please could someone address what seems to me to be a very important issue?????
@@davidfoster9890 I am a USA citizen and just an individual so this might not be within my reach and is certainly beyond my skill set. That being said, this seems a very astute suggestion.
The right to bring a private prosecution in the UK is granted by section 6(1) of the Prosecution of Offences Act 1985, which states that any individual or organisation has the right to initiate a private prosecution for most criminal offenses, although this is rarely exercised due to the availability of public prosecutors and the associated costs; a notable example is the RSPCA, which regularly brings private prosecutions for animal cruelty.
At last! Somebody who can remember things! 🙂🙂🙂
Two totally honest witnesses : yes they do exist ! Mr Warmington especially has been so honest regarding where he has gone wrong : no BS from either of them .
M
Yes... but he could have acted on the information that he got from Jenkins that Sub Post Office accounts could be and were being manipulated .externally. Instead, in his own words, he 'tucked it away '. He was therefore, on his own admission, knowingly complicit in a cover up.
@@robinblick9375He had no proof though, in fact the only proof for this was via the Fujitsu whistle blower at court in 2019.
These wretched NDA’s really messed things up. Very draconian: wonder if the mafia had similar agreements in place if you joined them.! Seems the PO have some common ground with them ! These two decent guys were in a dreadful position and threatened as well !!
Refreshing to see a witness that can remember (most) of what happened.
Jail terms for Jarnail, Vennells and Van den bullshitter..
You mean Singh
@@owstonlad3859Jarnail Singh
Jail for Jarnail sounds better @@owstonlad3859
The post office lawyers were complicit in this scandal. They are as if not more guilty than the senior executives.
More wrongdoing and cover-up revealed, costing innocent people their livelihoods and lives. In addition to compensation, justice must be done with hefty prison sentences.
Vennells must serve jail time for what she has done. If she gets away with it. THEN WE CAN ALL BREAK THE LAW. UK IN CRISIS..
There will be no jail time. Being ineffective at the job or incompetent is not a crime.
Fascinating that contractors, Ian Henderson and Ron Warmington do not appear to have any lapses in memory, or responding with "I cant recall or I just don't remember"" to any of the questions posed at the enquiry in stark contrast to the Directors or Managers of the POL. I wonder why...?
You don't have to be an 'expert' in criminal law to suspect that something very dodgy is going on here.
Why were the errors always shortfalls? never the other way. Was someone at Fujitsu actually stealing the money?
Alan Bates was threatened with job loss if he continued to leave cash shortfall and excesses on his accounts records!!!.Mr Bates informed the PO that hundreds of subpostmasters were including them in their accounts and rightly so!!.. he was being honest unlike the POL bunch of lieing incompetents!!
No, it's the point about the Suspense Account.. all shortfalls went into the Suspense Account, and it always had millions annually of payments that couldn't be reconciled, which meant the system was having cash injected into it that couldn't be reconciled (or as we know debts duplicated).. so they took it shoved it into Post Office standard account (read bonuses).
Any ERP system where you have a Suspense Account in profit is broken.
I think it unfortunate that two different type accounts are both just called suspense account. They are therefore conflating the suspense accounts that were just in the local Post Office and the suspense account (The very big one) is a corporate suspense account at headquarters. They stopped the local suspense accounts which had nothing to do with the 'corporate suspense accounts" They need to at least say branch suspense account AND corporate suspense account. The attorneys for the subpostmasters are confused.
Wait while they come to pay. Compensation they or somebody will want them to take peanuts if they are spending money on this. And payed bonuses beyond believe the compensation should be at least £1000,000, starting ,do you aggree
I find it difficult to believe how badly POL treated Ian and Ron.
Believe it. Dangerous maniacs can do exceedingly dangerous things when they feel threatened.
What a change to here the real truth I can believe what went on laws need changing
Support Criminal Law Reform Now Network's work to reform the ability for people and/or organisations to undertake private prosecutions.
I notice quite a lot of praise for these Second Sight Managers and I fear that I cannot agree. To me these two knew what was going on. They could have had no doubt in their minds BUT nonetheless allowed themselves to be silenced which therefore to me betrayed these subpostmasters once again! It has taken another 10 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fantastic that Bates has accepted a knighthood !
They all spared the guilty, with multiple cover ups,further punishing the innocent!
Who insured this massive fraud?
1:13:00 wow that is damning
'tuck it away'...the fact that Post Office accounts could be externally manipulated
Genuine question - what could they have done? They had contested oral evidence from an employee, in an unrecorded meeting.. it's the same allegations at that time Michael Rudkin made much more coherently in some ways and it was ignored.. it was still ignored after the Computer Weekly report.. what could they have done? Blown through their NDA, only to be dismissed, possibly sued, and a couple of children from KPMG brought in for another cover up..
@@Sam-y5o6j There's always a reason for doing nothing...But in this case, with the stakes so high, there was a better reason for doing something.
after the inquiry "civil cases are possible
You.... one .... can, just never win against these big organisations like POL! And I expect the same goes on today...... Like my complaint with BA.
BIG pICTURE qUESTION. Did Post Office have the legal authority to 'prosecute their own cases??? While as corrupting and unconscionable as it became, I accept that Royal Mail had that legal authority. I have seen nothing that transfers this superpower to Post Office after the separation. We have seen their attorneys to a one state that they considered this New Post Office client to be a normal commercial enterprise and conducted their efforts accordingly. Both things cannot be true. It cannot be a normal commercial enterprise and also have these superpowers of prosecution. Please please could someone address what seems to me to be a very important issue?????
Maybe try a FOI request?
@@davidfoster9890 I am a USA citizen and just an individual so this might not be within my reach and is certainly beyond my skill set. That being said, this seems a very astute suggestion.
@@dinacox1971 Do you think we should bring in Kennedy & Cruz to interrogate?
The right to bring a private prosecution in the UK is granted by section 6(1) of the Prosecution of Offences Act 1985, which states that any individual or organisation has the right to initiate a private prosecution for most criminal offenses, although this is rarely exercised due to the availability of public prosecutors and the associated costs; a notable example is the RSPCA, which regularly brings private prosecutions for animal cruelty.
@@owstonlad3859 LOL John and Ted? I am particularly supportive of Kennedy and Ron Paul is perhaps the one that I trust the most.
I missed the live cast but will catch up now.
Why would anyone care?
@@niblick616 Because they are interested perhaps?
These guys were very good.
@@niblick616 Because they are interested perhaps?