I mean those games still exist, this is a mobile PC cross platform game, the target audience isn't going to be those who can afford buy to play or subscription models. Making a new MMO just buy to play like new world usually ends up with the game not making enough money and losing support and dying out. You need whales to fund updates.
Edit: l read it as playing, not paying :D I also miss those times, but that would also include ppl not knowing any stuff before playing themselves. Sadly nowdays ppl tend to be more picky, do their research before and while playing and optimize their way of playing/gaining currency, which just ends up ruining a big part that causes fun in the game (trial and error > success and discovering new things) and creating metas and gatekeeping way faster than back in the day. Alphas, Betas and EA releases just make this problem worse.
Thank you for reminding me back why i refused to play this game from start. Visual progression is the endgame content for any mmorpg. if they erased that then whats the point lmao. I dont want my level1000 characters looks the same as lvl1 day1 creation 😂
I'd not mind this so much if costumes could drop from mobs or be found randomly throughout your gameplay. Gatekeeping individuality/personal appearance behind a paywall seems SUPER low even for an eastern developer. Gender locking is bad enough but I know they're going to change that.
feels like this is the least p2w we'll get in a free to play game, you still have to play to get the strongest gear, and you can still get gold by grinding. it's not as bad as some people make it out to be. there's no 100% perfect mmo, and this is one of those things that i can live with
@@NeafPlays you get the whole base game for free... That's hundreds of hours of gameplay easily. Yes you would need to make one time purchases for the expansions. But that's optional. You can play like 90% of the game for free.. also you can buy the expansions for in-game currency. So technically you don't have to pay with real cash.
I have never paid any dime. Haven't felt or seen any whale players that overgeared or overstats theirselves. all I see are they overgeared their COSTUMES XD. those crystals to gold are like for them to not farm but for non pay2win you can easily get those gold and gear yourself with empower and inlays or craft them
For those who convinced theirselves about “this level of p2w is acceptable!”, this is how it starts guys. We have seen this multiple times. If you disagree, feel free to contact me about 3 months later
@@joe3683 calling wow p2w is wild, to actually kit yourself with max boes you would have to spend literally 1000s of dollars which no one does except high skill players who pay for it all with gold from carries anyway.
@@joe3683 but the good part on GW2 is... you can sell gold for Gems and get premium currency without paying at all. While gold is very easy to get at level 80. Which is in my opinion is fine due to that.. compared to most P2W mmo.. And also the end game gear is so easy to get they are rather very friendly to our pocket money compared to most P2W mmo.
@@joe3683 I have not played the others, but I can confirm at least the first ~4 expacs of WoW, even having infinite gold would not give you any actual advantage vs someone with a couple extra hours per week. apart from the start of an expac or maybe the first 2 weeks of a PVP season, but each season last like 20 weeks. skilled players get capped with best PvP gear in a few weeks. and then even the worst players can get the same full set in like 10 weeks. maybe just a small exception for using some of the best PvE gear in PvP, which let you do more damage but also get hit harder (so usually only 1 or 2 pieces). because the time for being in a raiding guild is not really feasible unless you have no life or can buy your way in.
if u get 2 drop from battle pass then its game breaking if normal player can only get 1 items per reset time and they can get 2x it is so broken and normal player cant buy it from crystal
@@laiaa9178 One token = only usage. Battlepass gives like 3-4 of them (?) so only 3-4 uses on whole season (4-6 months). + you get some from free path too
I can look past the small amount of P2W but if they're willing to continue lying about it to this degree; who's to say they wont simply increase the amount of P2W features down the line?
They 1000% will since when you look at the current p2w you there is already like 4 or 5 layers of different currency just to increase your stats. Layers are so that you mentally dissociate your money value
the thing with lost ark is u pay 20 bucks in lost ark und u beat 1-2 month of grinding of a f2p player ez but not in tarisland this game the scale amount of money u have to whale for the same diffrence is a lot higher... and its seasonal in tarisland its just really stupid doing action house spendings every season to be at the top leaderboards... just play normal and get some cosmetics to look cooler if u wanna drop some cash^^
Feels like Lost Ark :D ? They literally had 150-200$ packs before game launched - to enter the game faster than everyone else 🤣- and then full CASH SHOP with rotations of crystals every 24hrs to power up faster. It's not even comperable
There is no cap on how much gold can you farm daily in WoW, there is no vigor system in WoW, you can trade with anyone in WoW (you can't trade in Tarisland). I don't get why would anyone say "yeah that is exactly the same as wow" lol.
The problem of P2W is not just the "pay". Through the game, you have to always spend time to learn about those stupid gems. All kinds of stupid gems. If you spend 30 mins just to read through those shit, then in that 30mins you aren't playing.
For me, the unplayable pay to win is when you get an item by paying that is stronger than other items you can get for free by playing. So paying gives you an advantage over free to play which the f2p players cannot reach no matter how much they play. Thats why I like mobas cause it is all about the hands and brain and not the pockets. I don’t mind that you can get all items just by playing only that paying gets you there faster.
Its still owned by Tencent and the game publishers have shown that they are shady by advertising it as non-p2w initially, being called out, changing their descriptions to "a classical mmo", making some changes to save face and to retain players, and now going back to advertising as non-p2w despite having some elements of p2w... It is only a matter of time before they introduce some questionable feature after few months, but many players will be invested into the game by then and would not want to quit.. so there wont be as much backlash as before... Eventually the f2p and p2w gap will increase to maintain their profit margins in a declining player population and f2p players wont be able to compete against p2w leading to further decrease in population.. I say it will last for 4-5 years max.. 2 years if they become desperate and introduce p2w in 1st year.. Will still play the game but not put it on a pedestal of something ground-breaking or innovative.. Its just more subtle manipulation and misleading tactics than outright p2w..
Lets speculate what will happen in 4 years lmao. Also Tencent owns one of the best F2P games that are on the market currently, so what's the deal calling them out ?
@@Lain2-c yes the best F2P games they have are Moba, which is not consuming so much resources compared to MMO, and their gameplay NEED to not be affected by real money or they will fail. But their MMORPG? most of their game are Trashiest among trash MMOs, speciall PW VNG, Dragon Raja etc..
I'm not a p2w type of person but this isn't really p2w. It's p2 progress. You get stuff faster but it's not that you can buy stuff someone else can't grind for.
@@michaeldmckenzie These are the typical people that swipe on these type of games and are usually pretty bad at video games. They have this coping mechanism of paying to win on these games so they can have some type of advantage to make themselves feel like they are good at the game and at the same time these are the people that will defend the pay to win. Playing on there cute little iphone or android LOL
In my opinion, P2W is only an issue if its for PvP. I don't care if someone wants to pay money to do good in PvE. So if the P2W doesn't affect PvP. I'll call it not P2W. So is that the case here? I promise I tried really hard to pay attention but im not sure...@1:25 I think he covers it.
I think he says you CAN use it in battlegrounds but not in Fair Arena. If you can use p2w gear in battlegrounds...im not interested in the game at all.
Unless I misunderstood, a large part of your argument that it is p2w is based on players buying gold from other players, then using that gold to buy in-game progression. By that argument, every single MMO is p2w. You could do the same in WoW, GW, etc. I am not a fanboy, just saw this game pop up and wanted to try it, but was looking at a good subjective view to determine if it is worth my time.
In their defence (very minor defence) they will say that you can’t buy gear directly from the crystals in the shop, which by the sounds of it is correct. However, they’re not being completely transparent with how you can obtain gold via selling the crystals. I think it’s something they can get away with tbh, but proper transparency would be better
It is pay to win but its probably on the lowest level compared to other mobile mmorpg (Genshin Impact money + legendary weapon/char / Albion Money = full tier 8 set) but on the bright side Tarisland has Arena/BG that has equal stats, gears have 100% drop rate per boss kill, Gold coins are easy to get (quest, achievements, events, gathering/crafting and selling anything), there's no auto-quest no auto gathering(except fishing), Costumes dont have stats, no shitty ads and UI covering 999% of your screen, Its skill based as well, a full powered up noob deals less damage than a good player who knows how to memorize boss skill, reserve CD, kite, dodge projectile. We have a good game here not gonna lie, so enjoy. Side note: in Classic WOW you can buy gold and buy Best in slot GEARS :) as all MMORPG
Hey Spid. Thanks for this. Please, answer the following then so I can understand how bad the p2w is, thanks in advance! Question 1: Purchasing items within the game allows players to bypass the vigor system and acquire various resources like empowerments, gems, and emblems. However, I'm curious about the actual gameplay advantage this provides compared to players who rely solely on farming. In your estimation, how much time would it take for a dedicated farmer to catch up to a player who purchases these items? Assuming I farm extensively, would the gap be a week or two? Additionally, could you quantify the specific advantages gained through purchasing these resources? Question 2: The trade center appears to be the primary marketplace for purchasing these in-game resources. Does this system function by players who have farmed these items selling them to others? In essence, are free-to-play players who diligently farm supplying the resources that paying players then purchase? Alternatively, does the game itself initially populate the trade center with these items?
Content creators often make videos using other people's work and then put ads on them. Is that really fair? consider how many features this game has imagine the costs they've invested in it. Can't you spare a few bucks? I play Helldivers 2, and they release warbonds with some amazing items for purchase. You don't see any complaints about that. I also buy them to support the progression of the game.
Thanks for the Vid, Spid. Considering the "minor" P2W element, how wide do you think the power gap is going to be between a serious non-spender and a "maxed out" spender?
Imo, this game is newly launched yesterday for my region, early game maybe acceptable difference, but remember this game keep being developed, spid also say season based, no body knows what might comes on future seasons, i have feeling that once their income can not satisfy investor, they will start releasing OP stuff with tons of money to earn it 😂 Still, thats my opinion only, lets see how this game will developed
Honestly it still baffles me that Spid hasn't been better praised by Tencents. Or praised at ALL! He's been the biggest source of publicity for Tarisland for literally years. I'm sure that over 80% of the playerbase thats pre-registered for this game wouldnt have even heard of Tarisland if it wasn't for Spids videos. And if they somehow did, they definetely wouldn't have been sold on the game without all his reviews and videos. If you take away Spids youtube videos, most of the Tarisland videos on youtube are either made by huge gaming channels, who've made a single video-review on it, calling it a WoW-clone and critizising it for not cloning better. The rest of the videos are either by non-english creators, or smaller creators without a huge audience/influence. To think that Spid is practically this multi-million dollar companys entire marketing campaigne for Tarisland, and they haven't even paid him a dime, AND they are slandering him online. If it wasn't for all the traction from Spid I'm sure this game would have been stuck in a ditch a long time ago. Spid even revived the game after the whole p2w scandal. For tencents to blame Spids p2w video for all the negative attention and feedback they got is downright juvenile.
The p2w aspect is insanely expensive with seasons and all plus it helps f2p players advance and get these bonuses as well. I don't have any problem with it
@@Lain2-c I dont think anyone would exchange it for gacha rolls xd. those things are hella expensive. The thing they would exchange prolly just for weekly or monthly
@@Lain2-cthat’s cool you can exchange for monthly subscription using ingame currency. I played a game that allowed us to use gems to get our subscription and then last year they change it so we have to use real money. Many people were not so happy about that including myself. For me this is good news.
So what is the f2p strat to compete? I saw something about creating the same class over and over again and consolidating the best rolled gear on your main.
Even though saying there are p2w aspects in Taris Land is technically correct, i think it's unfair to the game in the current state. As of today, the advantages you can buy with money are so minor it is even questionable if they are worth the cost. Even in the market on chinese servers a clever player is able to obtain enough gold to get access to pretty much all the goodies for his character within a reasonable amount of time (2 weeks, maybe 3) without spending a dime. Things might change of course, and that is actually the thing that i am most worried about with "mobile mentality games", but as of right now, the game is objectively the most fair towards being free to play we have seen in... ever, really.
The company should think twice about going after people who objectively talk about the P2W aspects. Because of videos like this, I'm going to play the game. Without such videos, I would assume there was massive P2W and be uninterested. There is a level of P2W here that I can tolerate for now, so I'm going to play. They should be thanking Spid.
Remember my friend you spend money for buy gold, but ALL items on auction is from players. if players don't sell u cant buy anything, and if u buy u help who sell right? this is not bad...
Can't say I'm surprised. Whenever I see a free to play MMO., this kind of stuff is expected. At the end of the day though I'm not going to be giving them any money. I just want to dip my toes into a new MMO for a bit. And for what it's worth, paying money to the dev to get a special currency to then convert it into in-game currency isn't all that bad, because every MMO is going to have gold farmers, and those gold farmers are going to sell the gold for real world money. It's an inescapable consequence for having an MMO. By the devs having their own way to do this undercuts the farmer's efforts. It's only slightly, but it's not nothing.
Google and Apple need to do something about all the fake game ads. It's out of control. 99% of the game ads now are just made up gameplay or cgi playthrough that has nothing to do with the actual game.
Can you use real money that results in acquiring a statistical advantage over players that did not spend real money? A statistical advantage is the one and only thing that can be p2w. The answer is either yes or no Qol ,faster progression or anything else you can buy is not p2w. I have started playing but would like to know the answer before I invest too much time on it
I killed elite blight dragon yesterday first day it came out, completely free to play. How you can “whale” is convert crystals you buy with real money to gold and then you can go the the player market to buy gear with rerolled stats, extra emblems and higher tier gems/empowerments. I have seen 1 actual whale and I out dps’ed him, in no sense do you need to spend money to catch up they have a great catch up system and you don’t need to buy extra shit to do bosses as they come out. Also I just realized yesterday all the cosmetics in the shop can be bought with crystals you convert so I’m personally going to stop wasting the gold I have been making on professions save it up to convert to crystals and buy some drip for my character.
Great video Spid and thanks. Just to play devils advocate here. Why is nobody calling out WoW for being P2W? I could log onto wow drop hundreds of dollars for gold tokens and buy the best gear off the AH or buy a carry through a Mythic or Heroic raid. It’s definitely sketchy that Tarisland lied, but I don’t love the argument of “why aren’t they just telling us it’s Pay To Win”… why isn’t Blizzard admitting that WoW is play to win?
@@SpidMMOYup agreed and that is the sketchy part. My comment was mainly in response to everyone wanting Tarisland to admit they are P2W… Just like Blizzard, they will never admit that. They should stop using non P2W as a marketing campaign though lol.
Because the model to gearing from nothing to max in wow is not gated artificially with wow tokens in mind. Youd realistically have to spend thousands of dollars to fully gear from the AH in wow, when you can get a character to near max gear (atm 525-529) within 2-3 weeks of grinding keys. Plus, anyone dedicated to spending that much gold on bis boes are making that gold from boostng, not buying tokens. That, and the throughput gap between 520-528 is not that large, whereas in these legitimate p2w games, that gap is huge.
Face it. Company still have to make money to provide updates and pay staff. If it is really 100% just earning by people buying skins it will shut down in 3 months
The p2w isn’t the issue because those people carry you though hard dungeon most the time! But what I hate that it take so long to login and the repeated downloads even after I delete game same thing happens so frustrating.
I don't understand why people who expect game company to do charity spends millions create a game just to earn by selling skins/monthly tickets? The company need to earn. Face it. Every game company does.
I was okay until it said season. nah this is straight p2win, its not super p2w but this is basically diablo immortal all over again. and the monthly pass tax reducation+listing items is free is a massive p2w advantage. that means the only people who are going to be able to flip resources on the market effectively are payed members. and this also means resources you gather as a f2p player you will barely profit on once you take the listing fee+higher tax into consideration since monthly pass members can effectively price you out of the market with lower prices AND have better margins. nah pass
Play daily for 1-2 hours max. Buy monthly pass for gold after just playing 7 days daily for minimum ammount of time (without spending a dime). Profit ??? - also the market tax wasn't even an issue in here
@@Lain2-c while that may or may not be true. its the principle of the matter. if the monthly pass is very good you feel compelled to buy it. so its a sub fee with extra perks which is a big turn off. its one thing to have a sub fee to unlock the full game like a traditional sub model and its another thing to nickle and dime by locking alot of good qol stuff behind it.
At this point, I dont expect much in MMORPGs, I already accepted that my perfect mmo will never come :D So now my only criteria is 1. of course fun to play 2. No pay wall, everything is obtainable for free players 3. Grind is reasonable for F2P players compared to P2W players
How do you get the gear from the raids ? Do you have to use gold to get gear from raids as I have seen in other games if so that means even more pay to win. Also what can you use crystals for besides selling them for gold ? What are people going to be buying them for ?
You get gear from raids by doing the raids. You cannot buy gear dropped from raids (but you can get weaker epic gear to raid better that has no set bonuses like raid gear IF players are selling it.) Aside from gold im p sure crystals are for cosmetics, membership.
If you are a kid and you have alot of free time, you can get everything by just playing alot, but if you have a job you can just trade money for that time. Is a fair trade.
I don't agree with you.. There are completely free playstyle in game, you can be the first without spending.. And yes there are some p2w stuff but that doesnt mean the game is completely p2w.. I was on your side since the stream with Asmon but you are just blaming the game because there are some payment options... Nope man.. Not anymore..
With your perspective WoW Tokens made WoW P2W.. You can get gold with it and you can buy stuff to level up your professions.. WOW! NONPLAYABLE, ITS P2W.. OMEYGAAT!!
for the people saying its not a pay to win game its pay to progress! SHUT UP! time savers? so youre telling me youre gonna pay them to not play the game? why can you not just admit that youre playing a pay to win game and embrace it, theres no shame on that you got money its up to you what to do with it. just remember that supporting this type of business is bad for gaming but hey who am i to tell u what to do XD. You play your favorite games and ill go play my favorite games as well. bye
@@CsanadiPeter85 wow not even close to be a p2w. even more - tarisland has been developed by a gacha/p2w crap company which is called "level infinite" which few month ago Scammed/defrauded all players in Tower of Fantasy( so called Tower of Fantasy reboot) .in a month or two you can't do anything in tarisland without donate
To me a pay to win game is a game that only rewards players who paid. In this case you buying out the grind of other players because u buy gems and stuff from other players on the market no?
WoW does the same with tokens. You can easily buy a lot of consumables, gems, enchants w gold on action house... so its ok for me, AS LONG AS THEY DONT KEEP ADDING MORE STUFF LIKE THIS (thats a big concern). PvP is where the real "P2W" would kill the game and they already fix it.
for me Pay to Win means Advantages in PvP arena or if theres PK area in the open. if you cant kill me with all your real-cash boosted character then its fine for me. its their money anyway. as f2p myself ill just enjoy the raids and equalized PvP arena.
well i am playing the game almost you can say i am maxed out till they increase the cap but i think most of players miss understand p2w basicly P2W is when i go buy something from the shop and makes me 100 time stronger than you and u can't even grind to get that what that been said i played this game since the global release totally full release i have over 5k gold and 2k crystals and i can't even use it to be better than anyone else so basically it's not p2w it's pay to progress which means i don't want to gather or anything i will just get gold and buy whatever that's just lazy so i cant say any type of P2w in this game so please before posting video make sure what u saying is right GL
I can live with this p2w, at least you didn't have to pay upfront at the store to get greater gears, some others can benefit from it because of the trading system
I'm okay with P2W games as long as they don't shove the payments on your screen, if agme tells me "pay" everytime I get into it, or remember me that i'm wasting my time doing content because if I pay the pass I will get more, then is a bad game. a P2W game isn't bad by definition, one that forces you and makes you feel miserable if you dont pay, thats a bad game.
Next season prolly they add pets that give you stats which also you can get more chance to be epic or Legendary if u pay for it ,.. after that it is gear for those pets etcetcetc go’s on and on and on at the end end game there will be people running around with double Gearscore compared to non pay to win players and we will be one more disappointment richer …. Was so tempted to start this but I think I better get me a pc and go back to some old freeshard servers with WaR or DaoC on them .
if buying gold is all it is thats fine with me aslong as its also obtainable by grinding in game i hate when they have things you need that are blocked behind pay walls, like if thats pay to win so is osrs when you buy bonds lmao every mmo has a way to buy gold
Dude in that case WoW is pay to win since you can buy gold and then buy mythic raid gear from BOE's. This isn't pay to win because people who naturally play the game also collect the ingame currency. Of course rich people in this game will have an advantage...
im kinda ok if p2w for pve only. maybe its good for whales competetive in pve. but hope no in pvp. im very exiting if their pvp so ballanced like tower of fantasy.
so its still the subjective discussion about your p2w definition. For me this game has no p2w because you buy stuff from other players and not the devs themself.
if u get 2 drop from battle pass then its game breaking if normal player can only get 1 items per reset time and they can get 2x it is so broken and normal player cant buy it from crystal
its just one item from whole battlepass, its nothing compared to amount of items you will loot/dismantle, like you will loot 100 items through season and 101 with battlepass
I feel like this is non too much p2w, but what if, the company is just baiting us to play and get invested with this game, and then 1 year down the line, they decide to make it full p2w, LOL.
That's not really pay to win though. All that stuff is only used in PvE. People can still get that. In PvP you can't use any of these this so not really pay to win. It won't give you an advantage against other players.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I miss the days of just paying for a game upfront. All these things I have to worry about now is such a headache.
I mean those games still exist, this is a mobile PC cross platform game, the target audience isn't going to be those who can afford buy to play or subscription models. Making a new MMO just buy to play like new world usually ends up with the game not making enough money and losing support and dying out. You need whales to fund updates.
@@ThisIsntmyrealnameGoogle And here's the person that keeps things like this alive.
@@ThisIsntmyrealnameGoogle I mostly agree but new world had a massive audience and failed cause of multiple mismanagements/incompetence issues
@@ThisIsntmyrealnameGoogle with sub should be enough, no need for whales
Edit: l read it as playing, not paying :D
I also miss those times, but that would also include ppl not knowing any stuff before playing themselves.
Sadly nowdays ppl tend to be more picky, do their research before and while playing and optimize their way of playing/gaining currency, which just ends up ruining a big part that causes fun in the game (trial and error > success and discovering new things) and creating metas and gatekeeping way faster than back in the day. Alphas, Betas and EA releases just make this problem worse.
The real dealbreaker in this game is the lack of visual progression
Thank you for reminding me back why i refused to play this game from start. Visual progression is the endgame content for any mmorpg. if they erased that then whats the point lmao. I dont want my level1000 characters looks the same as lvl1 day1 creation 😂
@@naimmuhammad8946 that's fine by me I'll be having a blast playing
I'd not mind this so much if costumes could drop from mobs or be found randomly throughout your gameplay.
Gatekeeping individuality/personal appearance behind a paywall seems SUPER low even for an eastern developer. Gender locking is bad enough but I know they're going to change that.
agree, they need to add gear visual progression
Have you even saw the transmogs yet in this game? There's already alot at launch and they'll gonna add more every month or so
The Fanbois will get big Eyes. The Second the Game does not bring in the Money they want, the p2w will increase massively.
And then, that would be the beginning of the end of Tarisland.. just hope they're wise enough to realize that
Alot of this stuff is easy gridable but honestly every MMO has some pay to win element as long as free players have a reasonable chance
I remember when I was 12 years old and thought MMORPGs should run on charity. I hope you mature soon too!
@@AirMaxWoR Fortnite is doin just fine
POE seems to make plenty of money without it being ptw
feels like this is the least p2w we'll get in a free to play game, you still have to play to get the strongest gear, and you can still get gold by grinding. it's not as bad as some people make it out to be. there's no 100% perfect mmo, and this is one of those things that i can live with
There is perfect none p2w mmos, gw2 is a perfect example.
@@rulymendy Not fully F2P, you need to buy the expansions. Kind of like Destiny, it's more like a very lengthy trial (which is a good thing!)
GW is not F2P...u have to buy it in order to play it..goes with the expansions.. lol
@@NeafPlays you get the whole base game for free... That's hundreds of hours of gameplay easily. Yes you would need to make one time purchases for the expansions. But that's optional. You can play like 90% of the game for free.. also you can buy the expansions for in-game currency. So technically you don't have to pay with real cash.
@@tepojateru inaccurate.
Good video Spid, honesty on the game is important. Why dev would hide the p2w, they could have admit it.... mmo players can smell p2w easily.
people will RMT...its pretty much like legal RMT... theres no gacha for gear..so thats ok to some degree.
"our game is p2w"
-genius dev
I have never paid any dime. Haven't felt or seen any whale players that overgeared or overstats theirselves. all I see are they overgeared their COSTUMES XD. those crystals to gold are like for them to not farm but for non pay2win you can easily get those gold and gear yourself with empower and inlays or craft them
For those who convinced theirselves about “this level of p2w is acceptable!”, this is how it starts guys. We have seen this multiple times. If you disagree, feel free to contact me about 3 months later
Not supporting this, but there are games where you can directly buy gold through things like this - RS3, OSRS, GW2, Eve, WoW.
@@joe3683 calling wow p2w is wild, to actually kit yourself with max boes you would have to spend literally 1000s of dollars which no one does except high skill players who pay for it all with gold from carries anyway.
@@joe3683 but the good part on GW2 is... you can sell gold for Gems and get premium currency without paying at all. While gold is very easy to get at level 80.
Which is in my opinion is fine due to that.. compared to most P2W mmo.. And also the end game gear is so easy to get they are rather very friendly to our pocket money compared to most P2W mmo.
@@joe3683 I have not played the others, but I can confirm at least the first ~4 expacs of WoW, even having infinite gold would not give you any actual advantage vs someone with a couple extra hours per week. apart from the start of an expac or maybe the first 2 weeks of a PVP season, but each season last like 20 weeks. skilled players get capped with best PvP gear in a few weeks. and then even the worst players can get the same full set in like 10 weeks. maybe just a small exception for using some of the best PvE gear in PvP, which let you do more damage but also get hit harder (so usually only 1 or 2 pieces). because the time for being in a raiding guild is not really feasible unless you have no life or can buy your way in.
Tarisland is still p2w? Here is basically tarisland monetization/pay to win explained, what do you think?
Tarisland is play to win game
if u get 2 drop from battle pass then its game breaking
if normal player can only get 1 items per reset time and they can get 2x it is so broken
and normal player cant buy it from crystal
What is crystals for?
@@laiaa9178 One token = only usage.
Battlepass gives like 3-4 of them (?) so only 3-4 uses on whole season (4-6 months).
+ you get some from free path too
I can look past the small amount of P2W but if they're willing to continue lying about it to this degree; who's to say they wont simply increase the amount of P2W features down the line?
They 1000% will since when you look at the current p2w you there is already like 4 or 5 layers of different currency just to increase your stats. Layers are so that you mentally dissociate your money value
Exactly. Not problem of not being P2W. But once they say it's F2P but make it P2W, trust is gone. We know it just go downhill from here
People are coping hard on this. It's like Lost Ark pre-launch all over the again. All smiles and delusions, and then reality hits in a few months.
the thing with lost ark is u pay 20 bucks in lost ark und u beat 1-2 month of grinding of a f2p player ez but not in tarisland this game the scale amount of money u have to whale for the same diffrence is a lot higher...
and its seasonal in tarisland its just really stupid doing action house spendings every season to be at the top leaderboards...
just play normal and get some cosmetics to look cooler if u wanna drop some cash^^
@@Z0o0L 20 bucks does not beat 1 -2 month of grind in lost ark. prolly just 1 day grind of a seasoned f2p. few days - 1week of a new f2p.
Feels like Lost Ark :D ?
They literally had 150-200$ packs before game launched - to enter the game faster than everyone else 🤣- and then full CASH SHOP with rotations of crystals every 24hrs to power up faster.
It's not even comperable
Exactly my thought
"People"? 90% of comments defending this game are paid bots.
Thats like WoW tokens. Like every top Raid guilde does it to pay their millions of potions and heir top notch equipment.
anyone who raids mythic or does high keys makes gold solely from boosting. No single high end player buys wow tokens lol.
There is no cap on how much gold can you farm daily in WoW, there is no vigor system in WoW, you can trade with anyone in WoW (you can't trade in Tarisland). I don't get why would anyone say "yeah that is exactly the same as wow" lol.
The problem of P2W is not just the "pay". Through the game, you have to always spend time to learn about those stupid gems. All kinds of stupid gems. If you spend 30 mins just to read through those shit, then in that 30mins you aren't playing.
For me, the unplayable pay to win is when you get an item by paying that is stronger than other items you can get for free by playing. So paying gives you an advantage over free to play which the f2p players cannot reach no matter how much they play. Thats why I like mobas cause it is all about the hands and brain and not the pockets.
I don’t mind that you can get all items just by playing only that paying gets you there faster.
Its still owned by Tencent and the game publishers have shown that they are shady by advertising it as non-p2w initially, being called out, changing their descriptions to "a classical mmo", making some changes to save face and to retain players, and now going back to advertising as non-p2w despite having some elements of p2w... It is only a matter of time before they introduce some questionable feature after few months, but many players will be invested into the game by then and would not want to quit.. so there wont be as much backlash as before... Eventually the f2p and p2w gap will increase to maintain their profit margins in a declining player population and f2p players wont be able to compete against p2w leading to further decrease in population.. I say it will last for 4-5 years max.. 2 years if they become desperate and introduce p2w in 1st year.. Will still play the game but not put it on a pedestal of something ground-breaking or innovative.. Its just more subtle manipulation and misleading tactics than outright p2w..
Lets speculate what will happen in 4 years lmao.
Also Tencent owns one of the best F2P games that are on the market currently, so what's the deal calling them out ?
@@Lain2-c4 years?? 4 months at best before they go full p2w 😂
@@Lain2-c yes the best F2P games they have are Moba, which is not consuming so much resources compared to MMO, and their gameplay NEED to not be affected by real money or they will fail. But their MMORPG? most of their game are Trashiest among trash MMOs, speciall PW VNG, Dragon Raja etc..
NEVER play any that came from, or is in the East; always P2W no matter what.
While today gacha games are least p2w
Yup Asian games mostly like that specially China and Korean.
And among all Asian Games their P2W are so painful, Except FFXIV and GW2 for eastern game
I'm not a p2w type of person but this isn't really p2w. It's p2 progress. You get stuff faster but it's not that you can buy stuff someone else can't grind for.
Hey Spid, do you think you can viablly raid on this game using your phone and be effective?
I can’t imagine why anyone would want to play on a phone.
@@michaeldmckenzie it's a mobile game?? Which is meant for phones. It just so happens to have a pc client as well
@@pakmann864 people crack me up when they comment like that. 👍
Took the words right out of my... fingers
@@michaeldmckenzie These are the typical people that swipe on these type of games and are usually pretty bad at video games. They have this coping mechanism of paying to win on these games so they can have some type of advantage to make themselves feel like they are good at the game and at the same time these are the people that will defend the pay to win. Playing on there cute little iphone or android LOL
In my opinion, P2W is only an issue if its for PvP. I don't care if someone wants to pay money to do good in PvE. So if the P2W doesn't affect PvP. I'll call it not P2W. So is that the case here? I promise I tried really hard to pay attention but im not sure...@1:25 I think he covers it.
I think he says you CAN use it in battlegrounds but not in Fair Arena. If you can use p2w gear in battlegrounds...im not interested in the game at all.
That’s because your holes are so big that you don’t feel anything.
Unless I misunderstood, a large part of your argument that it is p2w is based on players buying gold from other players, then using that gold to buy in-game progression. By that argument, every single MMO is p2w. You could do the same in WoW, GW, etc.
I am not a fanboy, just saw this game pop up and wanted to try it, but was looking at a good subjective view to determine if it is worth my time.
The 'trade' for crystals to gold is NOT instant. No idea how long it takes but definitely not an instant exchange
In their defence (very minor defence) they will say that you can’t buy gear directly from the crystals in the shop, which by the sounds of it is correct. However, they’re not being completely transparent with how you can obtain gold via selling the crystals. I think it’s something they can get away with tbh, but proper transparency would be better
You can buy gear now also
Ngl the level if p2w is so minor I'm actually thankful. Can't wait for release!
Right. Definitely beats lost ark
@@trinking3711 yup maxing out the gems on day 1 is better than lark. xd
Just pray they don't be greedy in the future.
@@ujuuju4311 Chinese company getting greedy? Never heard of that beard 😂
@@trinking3711 lost ark is one of the most p2w games out there. how is that worth comparing? xD
It is pay to win but its probably on the lowest level compared to other mobile mmorpg (Genshin Impact money + legendary weapon/char / Albion Money = full tier 8 set) but on the bright side Tarisland has Arena/BG that has equal stats, gears have 100% drop rate per boss kill, Gold coins are easy to get (quest, achievements, events, gathering/crafting and selling anything), there's no auto-quest no auto gathering(except fishing), Costumes dont have stats, no shitty ads and UI covering 999% of your screen, Its skill based as well, a full powered up noob deals less damage than a good player who knows how to memorize boss skill, reserve CD, kite, dodge projectile. We have a good game here not gonna lie, so enjoy.
Side note: in Classic WOW you can buy gold and buy Best in slot GEARS :) as all MMORPG
Hey Spid. Thanks for this. Please, answer the following then so I can understand how bad the p2w is, thanks in advance!
Question 1:
Purchasing items within the game allows players to bypass the vigor system and acquire various resources like empowerments, gems, and emblems. However, I'm curious about the actual gameplay advantage this provides compared to players who rely solely on farming. In your estimation, how much time would it take for a dedicated farmer to catch up to a player who purchases these items? Assuming I farm extensively, would the gap be a week or two? Additionally, could you quantify the specific advantages gained through purchasing these resources?
Question 2:
The trade center appears to be the primary marketplace for purchasing these in-game resources. Does this system function by players who have farmed these items selling them to others? In essence, are free-to-play players who diligently farm supplying the resources that paying players then purchase? Alternatively, does the game itself initially populate the trade center with these items?
Haven't spent a dime, fully up to date and geared up in 2 days.. pwgo faster, maybe, p2w absolutely not.
Content creators often make videos using other people's work and then put ads on them. Is that really fair?
consider how many features this game has imagine the costs they've invested in it. Can't you spare a few bucks?
I play Helldivers 2, and they release warbonds with some amazing items for purchase. You don't see any complaints about that. I also buy them to support the progression of the game.
Thanks for the Vid, Spid. Considering the "minor" P2W element, how wide do you think the power gap is going to be between a serious non-spender and a "maxed out" spender?
Imo, this game is newly launched yesterday for my region, early game maybe acceptable difference, but remember this game keep being developed, spid also say season based, no body knows what might comes on future seasons, i have feeling that once their income can not satisfy investor, they will start releasing OP stuff with tons of money to earn it 😂
Still, thats my opinion only, lets see how this game will developed
these are not p2w elements
Honestly it still baffles me that Spid hasn't been better praised by Tencents. Or praised at ALL! He's been the biggest source of publicity for Tarisland for literally years. I'm sure that over 80% of the playerbase thats pre-registered for this game wouldnt have even heard of Tarisland if it wasn't for Spids videos. And if they somehow did, they definetely wouldn't have been sold on the game without all his reviews and videos. If you take away Spids youtube videos, most of the Tarisland videos on youtube are either made by huge gaming channels, who've made a single video-review on it, calling it a WoW-clone and critizising it for not cloning better. The rest of the videos are either by non-english creators, or smaller creators without a huge audience/influence. To think that Spid is practically this multi-million dollar companys entire marketing campaigne for Tarisland, and they haven't even paid him a dime, AND they are slandering him online. If it wasn't for all the traction from Spid I'm sure this game would have been stuck in a ditch a long time ago. Spid even revived the game after the whole p2w scandal. For tencents to blame Spids p2w video for all the negative attention and feedback they got is downright juvenile.
You mean 80 procent of the 0,1 procent of the total western playerbase? Most of the playerbase are in China
Less than 1 procent of the total playerbase will be outside China. I dont think China have heard about Spid with the very rare expections.
I mean it's tencent were talking about here. People actually expected a game made by tencent to not totally be p2w?
Tencent is fcked up, but this is indeed a Good game I hope they dont fk this up since Gems are sht right now
Ok so the arena is not pay to win. As long as you don’t have an advantage in competitive.. if you can’t pay to win arena so that’s a W in my book.
The p2w aspect is insanely expensive with seasons and all plus it helps f2p players advance and get these bonuses as well. I don't have any problem with it
This is like how gw2's system works I'd say pay to progress faster.
But in gw2 theres really a cap u can reach, and it’s more about skill the equip
I have literally almost every gear legendary without spending and have skins for everything.. Can you explain where does paying starts?
What ca you buy with crystals though, that regular players would be willing to exchange their gold for it?
The weekly/monthly subscription. You can buy the subscription with money or crystals bought from the trading hall.
@@rks4532 battlepass?
Monthly passes, some costumes, mounts & gacha rolls (legendary costumes).
@@Lain2-c I dont think anyone would exchange it for gacha rolls xd. those things are hella expensive. The thing they would exchange prolly just for weekly or monthly
@@Lain2-cthat’s cool you can exchange for monthly subscription using ingame currency. I played a game that allowed us to use gems to get our subscription and then last year they change it so we have to use real money. Many people were not so happy about that including myself. For me this is good news.
Still going to try it this Friday
There is a youtuber that posted a video talking about how the game isn't pay to win by explaining how it is. Was very comical to say the least
So what is the f2p strat to compete? I saw something about creating the same class over and over again and consolidating the best rolled gear on your main.
u cannot do that cause u cant mail stuff to ur alt chars...basically doing alts to have an advantage like in other mmos just doesnt work in tarisland
You can sell gold to your main through AH
You’re the best Spid. I have learned about the game more. Thank you
Even though saying there are p2w aspects in Taris Land is technically correct, i think it's unfair to the game in the current state. As of today, the advantages you can buy with money are so minor it is even questionable if they are worth the cost. Even in the market on chinese servers a clever player is able to obtain enough gold to get access to pretty much all the goodies for his character within a reasonable amount of time (2 weeks, maybe 3) without spending a dime.
Things might change of course, and that is actually the thing that i am most worried about with "mobile mentality games", but as of right now, the game is objectively the most fair towards being free to play we have seen in... ever, really.
Will you do recruitment for levelz at global release or will you use same data as for china was?
Join my levelz discord
@@SpidMMO man im in your chinese guild i Just ask if you change anything about world release :)
@@SpidMMO
Who's best class for pvp?
Paladin or barbarian
@@SpidMMO
Do you think assassin can beat anyone 1vs1 ?
Hope your video will not be taken down again. 😂 but yeah im going to try this game just for the heck of playing it.
The company should think twice about going after people who objectively talk about the P2W aspects. Because of videos like this, I'm going to play the game. Without such videos, I would assume there was massive P2W and be uninterested. There is a level of P2W here that I can tolerate for now, so I'm going to play. They should be thanking Spid.
Remember my friend you spend money for buy gold, but ALL items on auction is from players. if players don't sell u cant buy anything, and if u buy u help who sell right? this is not bad...
How slow are grinding gems f2p? And how much does it cost to max out? And how big are the power difference with max rank and lower ranks?
Can't say I'm surprised. Whenever I see a free to play MMO., this kind of stuff is expected. At the end of the day though I'm not going to be giving them any money. I just want to dip my toes into a new MMO for a bit.
And for what it's worth, paying money to the dev to get a special currency to then convert it into in-game currency isn't all that bad, because every MMO is going to have gold farmers, and those gold farmers are going to sell the gold for real world money. It's an inescapable consequence for having an MMO. By the devs having their own way to do this undercuts the farmer's efforts. It's only slightly, but it's not nothing.
Waited for this vid to come out let’s go mate⚡️
Google and Apple need to do something about all the fake game ads. It's out of control. 99% of the game ads now are just made up gameplay or cgi playthrough that has nothing to do with the actual game.
Yo, when video on professions?
Is it still set to release Friday?
jes release this friday
Just released today!
Can you use real money that results in acquiring a statistical advantage over players that did not spend real money? A statistical advantage is the one and only thing that can be p2w.
The answer is either yes or no
Qol ,faster progression or anything else you can buy is not p2w.
I have started playing but would like to know the answer before I invest too much time on it
I killed elite blight dragon yesterday first day it came out, completely free to play. How you can “whale” is convert crystals you buy with real money to gold and then you can go the the player market to buy gear with rerolled stats, extra emblems and higher tier gems/empowerments. I have seen 1 actual whale and I out dps’ed him, in no sense do you need to spend money to catch up they have a great catch up system and you don’t need to buy extra shit to do bosses as they come out. Also I just realized yesterday all the cosmetics in the shop can be bought with crystals you convert so I’m personally going to stop wasting the gold I have been making on professions save it up to convert to crystals and buy some drip for my character.
Great video Spid and thanks. Just to play devils advocate here. Why is nobody calling out WoW for being P2W? I could log onto wow drop hundreds of dollars for gold tokens and buy the best gear off the AH or buy a carry through a Mythic or Heroic raid.
It’s definitely sketchy that Tarisland lied, but I don’t love the argument of “why aren’t they just telling us it’s Pay To Win”… why isn’t Blizzard admitting that WoW is play to win?
Wow never claimed p2w is forbidden, Tarisland is continuously using it as a slogan and in their marketing
@@SpidMMOYup agreed and that is the sketchy part. My comment was mainly in response to everyone wanting Tarisland to admit they are P2W… Just like Blizzard, they will never admit that.
They should stop using non P2W as a marketing campaign though lol.
Because the model to gearing from nothing to max in wow is not gated artificially with wow tokens in mind. Youd realistically have to spend thousands of dollars to fully gear from the AH in wow, when you can get a character to near max gear (atm 525-529) within 2-3 weeks of grinding keys.
Plus, anyone dedicated to spending that much gold on bis boes are making that gold from boostng, not buying tokens. That, and the throughput gap between 520-528 is not that large, whereas in these legitimate p2w games, that gap is huge.
Thanks for this video, i installed the game to try today but now i don't want any part of it.
So sick of scummy monetization.
Energy for grinding proffesions? What is that? A bad game design or what?
new to F2P games?
No I'm not, but that doesn't sit right.
I Miss the days when devs didn't lie.
Face it. Company still have to make money to provide updates and pay staff. If it is really 100% just earning by people buying skins it will shut down in 3 months
Thanks, Spid. your wonderful explaining saves my time and wallet. I'm really glad I saw your video.
The p2w isn’t the issue because those people carry you though hard dungeon most the time! But what I hate that it take so long to login and the repeated downloads even after I delete game same thing happens so frustrating.
It's not really "pay to win" it's more like "pay to progress", you get certain items faster, other players that do not pay are not locked out.
OG tarisland was friggin awesome. Didn't put in a penny and I had tons of awesome stuff. Really high level. They seem to have gut the game...
I don't understand why people who expect game company to do charity spends millions create a game just to earn by selling skins/monthly tickets? The company need to earn. Face it. Every game company does.
I was okay until it said season. nah this is straight p2win, its not super p2w but this is basically diablo immortal all over again. and the monthly pass tax reducation+listing items is free is a massive p2w advantage. that means the only people who are going to be able to flip resources on the market effectively are payed members. and this also means resources you gather as a f2p player you will barely profit on once you take the listing fee+higher tax into consideration since monthly pass members can effectively price you out of the market with lower prices AND have better margins. nah pass
Play daily for 1-2 hours max.
Buy monthly pass for gold after just playing 7 days daily for minimum ammount of time (without spending a dime).
Profit ???
- also the market tax wasn't even an issue in here
@@Lain2-c while that may or may not be true. its the principle of the matter. if the monthly pass is very good you feel compelled to buy it. so its a sub fee with extra perks which is a big turn off. its one thing to have a sub fee to unlock the full game like a traditional sub model and its another thing to nickle and dime by locking alot of good qol stuff behind it.
At this point, I dont expect much in MMORPGs, I already accepted that my perfect mmo will never come :D
So now my only criteria is 1. of course fun to play 2. No pay wall, everything is obtainable for free players 3. Grind is reasonable for F2P players compared to P2W players
So it's a "non-P2W game" with a F2P-P2W converter in the shop, got it.
How do you get the gear from the raids ? Do you have to use gold to get gear from raids as I have seen in other games if so that means even more pay to win. Also what can you use crystals for besides selling them for gold ? What are people going to be buying them for ?
You get gear from raids by doing the raids. You cannot buy gear dropped from raids (but you can get weaker epic gear to raid better that has no set bonuses like raid gear IF players are selling it.) Aside from gold im p sure crystals are for cosmetics, membership.
RMT is base this how you can get boost remember
If you are a kid and you have alot of free time, you can get everything by just playing alot, but if you have a job you can just trade money for that time. Is a fair trade.
Excellent and fair rundown on the issue. Thanks!
No one's gonna talk about the season being reset and you have to get the gear etc all over again?
they will probably have a perm server. nearly all games now do seasons. Even official wow has a season currently active for another 64 days
@@shadowenergyAI ah that makes sense
Soft reset
hi,i have 1 question,can we play this game on controller,cant find video.and why steam,dont have suport for controller.ty
You try playing the game on Mobile? Crashes then puts you back to the ten to fifteen min load screen.
I'm just looking forward to having a new game to play. Looks fun to me, and that's all that really matters in my opinion.
I don't agree with you.. There are completely free playstyle in game, you can be the first without spending.. And yes there are some p2w stuff but that doesnt mean the game is completely p2w.. I was on your side since the stream with Asmon but you are just blaming the game because there are some payment options... Nope man.. Not anymore..
With your perspective WoW Tokens made WoW P2W.. You can get gold with it and you can buy stuff to level up your professions.. WOW! NONPLAYABLE, ITS P2W.. OMEYGAAT!!
so they tone down the P2W content a little bit and the arena is no gear score,, that hook me to try this one
Albion Online is similar pay2win. My only issue is that Battlegrounds are not fair like Arenas.
you're telling me a shitty mobile mmo is pay to win????
nahhhhhh
Just like wow and destiny 2
@@mrmack3176 how is d2 pay2win?
PC too
@@mrmack3176 World of warcraft isn't p2w as far as I can remember lol. It's subscription based right?
for the people saying its not a pay to win game its pay to progress! SHUT UP! time savers? so youre telling me youre gonna pay them to not play the game? why can you not just admit that youre playing a pay to win game and embrace it, theres no shame on that you got money its up to you what to do with it. just remember that supporting this type of business is bad for gaming but hey who am i to tell u what to do XD. You play your favorite games and ill go play my favorite games as well. bye
Still a million times better than all other mobile mmos.... it's actually pretty fair honestly.
unfortunately, game is extremely p2w - let's 2-3 seasons pass away and all those poor f2p players will be left behind because of insane powercreep.
why p2w? :D
@@CsanadiPeter85 because it's pay 2 win game lol
@@zaza7658 then wow is p2w lol. :D
@@CsanadiPeter85 wow not even close to be a p2w. even more - tarisland has been developed by a gacha/p2w crap company which is called "level infinite" which few month ago Scammed/defrauded all players in Tower of Fantasy( so called Tower of Fantasy reboot) .in a month or two you can't do anything in tarisland without donate
To me a pay to win game is a game that only rewards players who paid. In this case you buying out the grind of other players because u buy gems and stuff from other players on the market no?
Outfit Gacha with 1000€ for a single Outfit? Rofl.
Think in Tower of Fantasy it was 130€ for Outfit gacha to get it and it was too much.
All this wouldn’t matter because arena is not gear matters, it’s skills base. No point of spending money for a pve environment.
WoW does the same with tokens. You can easily buy a lot of consumables, gems, enchants w gold on action house... so its ok for me, AS LONG AS THEY DONT KEEP ADDING MORE STUFF LIKE THIS (thats a big concern). PvP is where the real "P2W" would kill the game and they already fix it.
That might still be acceptable, but they will definitely add more in the future when we start enjoying the game. But I will still play this.
for me Pay to Win means Advantages in PvP arena or if theres PK area in the open. if you cant kill me with all your real-cash boosted character then its fine for me. its their money anyway. as f2p myself ill just enjoy the raids and equalized PvP arena.
well i am playing the game almost you can say i am maxed out till they increase the cap but i think most of players miss understand p2w
basicly P2W is when i go buy something from the shop and makes me 100 time stronger than you and u can't even grind to get that what that been said
i played this game since the global release totally full release i have over 5k gold and 2k crystals and i can't even use it to be better than anyone else so basically it's not p2w it's pay to progress which means i don't want to gather or anything i will just get gold and buy whatever that's just lazy
so i cant say any type of P2w in this game so please before posting video make sure what u saying is right GL
I can live with this p2w, at least you didn't have to pay upfront at the store to get greater gears, some others can benefit from it because of the trading system
I'm okay with P2W games as long as they don't shove the payments on your screen, if agme tells me "pay" everytime I get into it, or remember me that i'm wasting my time doing content because if I pay the pass I will get more, then is a bad game.
a P2W game isn't bad by definition, one that forces you and makes you feel miserable if you dont pay, thats a bad game.
I was going to try it until you said the word "season". Thanks for the info.
Next season prolly they add pets that give you stats which also you can get more chance to be epic or
Legendary if u pay for it ,.. after that it is gear for those pets etcetcetc go’s on and on and on at the end end game there will be people running around with double
Gearscore compared to non pay to win players and we will be one more disappointment richer …. Was so tempted to start this but I think I better get me a pc and go back to some old freeshard servers with WaR or DaoC on them .
I am sick of so many items you have to keep track of to get strong. It's like a full time job, keep the currency and usage simple.
if buying gold is all it is thats fine with me aslong as its also obtainable by grinding in game i hate when they have things you need that are blocked behind pay walls, like if thats pay to win so is osrs when you buy bonds lmao every mmo has a way to buy gold
What crystals are for? And who buys crystals? Seem like you need golds for everything
So WoW is pay to win too I guess lol
noone cares about wow dude. for pvp its pointless to buy gold ingame.
Yes because you can buy gold
@@JohnCivor buy gold for what? A BoE for a world first race? Holy hell mmos are infested with normies who do not understand what P2W is.
@@Foundingflounder my dude, you can buy carries and boosts and also buy gear in goldbids
yes
Dude in that case WoW is pay to win since you can buy gold and then buy mythic raid gear from BOE's. This isn't pay to win because people who naturally play the game also collect the ingame currency. Of course rich people in this game will have an advantage...
Of course WoW is P2W. You think so many people moved to classic without any reason?? Both games deserve criticism, otherwise it won't stop.
im kinda ok if p2w for pve only. maybe its good for whales competetive in pve. but hope no in pvp. im very exiting if their pvp so ballanced like tower of fantasy.
so its still the subjective discussion about your p2w definition. For me this game has no p2w because you buy stuff from other players and not the devs themself.
Honestly even if its P2W ill still play it. Im not that competitive i just want a decent MMORPG, i hate auto gaming in mobile tbh
Seasonal system, gem, empowerment. Sound familiar? It is Diablo Immortal in disguised
if u get 2 drop from battle pass then its game breaking
if normal player can only get 1 items per reset time and they can get 2x it is so broken
and normal player cant buy it from crystal
its just one item from whole battlepass, its nothing compared to amount of items you will loot/dismantle, like you will loot 100 items through season and 101 with battlepass
So basicly the same as WoW now days?
I feel like this is non too much p2w, but what if, the company is just baiting us to play and get invested with this game, and then 1 year down the line, they decide to make it full p2w, LOL.
Most mmos do this. But just... stop playing if that happens
They will, I gave my “10cent”
Thanks for amazing videos, keeping it real.
its not pay to win its pay to skip time. its a diffrence
That's not really pay to win though. All that stuff is only used in PvE. People can still get that. In PvP you can't use any of these this so not really pay to win. It won't give you an advantage against other players.