Fleeing the Cult: Detransitioner Slams Trans Ideology
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- Опубликовано: 24 апр 2024
- On today's Deprogrammed, host Harrison Pitt of the European Conservative magazine is joined by NCF regular Amy Gallagher, a nurse and psychotherapist who is suing the Tavistock Centre for discrimination, and by writer and commentator Charlie Bentley Astor. Charlie discusses her personal journey from deciding she was trans to eventually realising she wasn't and subsequently detransitioning.
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You cant be born in the wrong body,it cant happen.
Well said
And chopping off bits doesn't change the body you are in. Just what it looks like and to an extent, what it can do.
To truly 'correct' this 'wrong body' issue, we would have to transfer the soul/personality of the person into another body. That can be seen as either reincarnation or spirit possession. So who's bodies should these people be put in? Do we create soulless bodies that wait for their incorporation?
The implications of this (faulty) thinking is so horrific to envision.
Psychic sexual identity is a choice, not a biological fact, but it is not a conscious choice that the subject can playfully repeat and transform. It is an unconscious choice which precedes subjective constitution and which is, as such, formative of subjectivity, which means that the change of this choice entails the radical transformation of the bearer of the choice.
@@RADMIL-ro1rl Again without the word salad?
How is anyone born in the wrong body ? What a concept. A body is. It is neither the right nor the wrong sex at birth.
🎯🎯🎯
As this woke madness continues its assault on critical thinking - I'm beginning to question whether I was - "born" on the 'wrong planet?' : /
we all are, i should of been born on Mars. The people there are just so much easier to get along with
I’m pretty sure I was born in the wrong decade/century but I’m not sure which one I’d fit in best.
@@bluecannibaleyes I was dorn last century, think that makes it worse, I've got to watch it all unfold. Is some kick back of late if I get to see this crap get stopped on I can count it as ahh an experience I guess
@@silenthbomb2025 Same. Both centuries I’ve lived in have been the wrong ones for me. 🤣
😂 great one!!!
As a man I don't know what any other man feels like to know if they feel like I do. The follow on from that is there is no way I can understand what it feels like to be a woman. I am sure it goes the other way as well, how can a woman know if she feels the same way as other women etc. To feel you are in the wrong body and that this can be changed in any meaningful way is clearly not tackling the underlying problem because, wherever drugs or surgery takes someone, the original problem can never be corrected since the nebulous idea of what someone else's body or mind feels like is something that cannot be described in any meaningful way.
True except as a woman I know how other women feel physically in labour because I’ve done it myself a couple of times. Likewise I know the dreaded fear of an unwanted pregnancy each month waiting for a late period or how a hot flush in menopause feels. As a man you might know how being challenged to a fight with another man feels or the stress of supporting a wife and children feels where you are the ‘breadwinner’. We have shared experiences.
True except as a woman I know how other women feel physically in labour because I’ve done it myself a couple of times. Likewise I know the dreaded fear of an unwanted pregnancy each month waiting for a late period or how a hot flush in menopause feels. As a man you might know how being challenged to a fight with another man feels or the stress of supporting a wife and children feels where you are the ‘breadwinner’. We have shared experiences.
Great convo - thx. "Indulgence is not compassion, it is neglect under another name" ... perfect end to an excellent dialogue.
If any group of people tells you to not listen to anyone with differing opinions, labels them as wrong or evil, says that if your family does not 100% support your decisions that you should cut them off entirely and seek support only within the group, and shuns or attacks anyone leaving the group, that is the very definition of a cult.
Just confirms that its about beliefs rather than truth anyone that leaves the faith is accused of apostasy
And just like in religion, apostates are hated even more than unbelievers.
As someone who used to be a lesbian but changed my sxuality, I can vouch that yes, it’s exactly like that. I am a blasphemer for going against their core principles.
Is why I personally see the two as one in the same.
@@bluecannibaleyes You probably were NOT a Lesbian in the first place. some idot just categorised you. I always have been gay, and I am pretty damn sure. I dont need some idot with credential Letters after their name to tell me that. Or for them to tell me how I am feeling, when they totally dont know.
@@bluecannibaleyes or simply you were bisexual the whole time and now changed your preference in dating... you can't change your sexuality.
Basing your life on oppression and victimhood isn’t much of a life.
Honestly I see transitioning trans kids as the same thing as giving anorexic kids liposuction, and even suggesting that such a thing can help a child even though it most definitely won’t (even if it goes completely well, your body will have health issues from such drastic alterations) is just plain cruel.
Great discussion. Especially the insight of Charlie Bentley Astor.
Thank god there wasn't this insanity when i grew up, there were men and women and some gays, it was understood you could try to make a family and it was a goal for most people, if you didn't want that nobody really thought you were a bad person, now the kids think youre a monster if you want to make a family its insane.
Agree, and for me personally being a stay at home mother (whilst not with a few self esteem issues by worrying what others might think of me not doing paid work) was one of the happiest periods of my life. Being a Mother first and foremost has been demonised.
The "born in the wrong body" claim was recorded in early medical manuals. The patients read the books too and recycled it to tick the clinician's box. It snowballed from there. The possibility of some brain issues triggered by the administration of a certain type of medication in childhood should be considered for those where social contagion is not the case. The incidence graphs align.
In regards to female distress over puberty: you can trace this back to at least the 16th century, and possibly to Hippocrates, but this is very much a product of the West; it is not universal since there are cultures where this does not occur.
I entered puberty at an interesting point of time historically. The diseases of older girls and young women that had their peak in the Victorian age, chlorosis and the panoply of hysterical conversion disorders, had largely disappeared a few decades previously; disorders such as anorexia, bulimia, and cutting were not yet so prevalent that they were known to the general public. My friends and I actually looked forward to puberty; we may not have been completely satisfied with our bodies, but in general our outlook was positive. We did not live in an ideal time. We lived during the Cold War and under the threat of nuclear annihilation. We lived through the Cuban Missel Crisis, the Vietnam War, the assassinations of JFK, MLK and RFK. We lived through race riots. Even though it was a difficult period to live through it didn't affect our positive view of growing up.
Well, it's patriarchal cultures where this is happening. That's a point I did miss in the conversation. It's mostly girls nowadays who feel they are in the wrong body because of our mysoginist society. And - it's a patriarchal way of thinking that you can do whatever you want with your body, same as we as humankind think we can do whatever we want with the earth without consequences. But no, we see now we can't treat nature without respect and exploit it without bad consequences for the world and us. This exploitation is patriarchal and the exploitation of our own bodies is too. We loose contact and think mind over matter always wins. In that way I see the trans cult also as peak patriarchal, although they would say otherwise...
I identify as a transman. I transitioned medically over 7 yrs ago and I live my life "stealth" to everyone but family and my wife. Being a transman isn't my whole personality in the same way as being gay isn't someone else's whole personality. Like I said, 90% of the people I know, don't even know and won't ever know. I'm just a normal man who has a wife, works a blue collar job and doesn't ask for anything.
I feel bad for detransitioners, but I really can't relate. I knew I was a transman 20 yrs ago and that has never changed for me.
Good stuff. Straight to the point.
Thank you for platforming this detransitioner. I often think I - or my troubled angsty teen self, missed this social contagion by no more than 1-2 years.
But I relate to every last detrans biological female I hear describe their experiences on at least a few grounds.
I was definitely a self-harmer & an anorexic. My breasts never fully developed to be honest because of my extreme anorexia from age 12-21. I did scar myself but the big difference is no doctor was helping me, my school wasn’t encouraging cutting or starving. This - gender ideology & medical experimentation- the most evil ideology to hit the West since the rise of the 3rd Reich.
i have been saying for a long time that we as a society need to really look into the idea that it could be a 'software' problem. If someone tells you they feel like they should really only have one leg and they want you to cut it off, do you then cut the leg off or do you stop and ask if they are ok. its not legs we talking about tho is it, something probably a bit more important than a leg
There's a disturbing link in the history of the trans medical culture with exactly that, apotemnophilia. I forget the details - I think some of the early instigators of trans ideology were involved in finding a surgeon willing to cut a man's leg(s) off because he wanted them to. I think in both cases there are perhaps end-points where all less invasive options have been tried - as you say, questions have been asked - and body modification is going to be the right choice for some, it's all just gone the other way, where bodily autonomy is demanded as the absolute right of everyone without limit (and celebration and "affirmation" demanded on top of that), including children, and if you disagree, you're some kind of monster.
I've been following this more an more recently and something I see often from those on the critical side of gender affirming care is attributing it and those that support it to 'the left'. While the vast majority of those supporting it in the west are a faction on the left it is definitely not universal - there is a large cohort of the centre-left and left that are not on board. More broadly, the country that does the second most gender re-assignment surgeries in the world is Iran, definitely not left. It's surreal to see radical progressives and the far right fundamentalists on the same page on something.
The other interesting thing I see as a scientist is the exact same reaction to the Cass review from the radicals as some on the right to the IPCC reports on climate change. Cherry-picking, accusations of bias and dismissal of the science. Both sides need to try and get outside their bubble and their biases and look at the data, that can get everyone on the same page. Either accept that science is a useful tool, or admit you you would rather follow your tribe.
Femininity in men and masculinity in women extremely rare
I tried to share your interview about the Tavistock and children being groomed, Facebook wouldn't allow it saying other people on Facebook seen it as abusive.
Our identity is the site of our unfreedom because it is given to us. When we locate our subjectivity in a particular identity, we tacitly accept this external determination and thereby forsake the project of freedom…Merely creating an identity (Queer, Trans, etc.) and claiming it as subversive does nothing. What needs to be done is actual hard, radical, revolutionary work. Only through a return to a class based politics which fights for universal freedom and global solidarity can current problems, including otherness, be solved.
HG Tudor espouses the view that with a mental health condition such as narcissism a genetic predisposition may exist, but needs an event or the right conditions to be expressed. Rather like the ingredients for a cake - they are not a cake until they are baked.
I hate woke.
Victoria Australia's Health Department declare that they have "No Definition" of de-transition. The Royal Childrens Hospital Gender Clinic also agree there are NO de-transitioners
I guess they're just on a gender journey. Hey, it's a great way to make sure there's never a misdiagnosis, just deny the possibility. It's a monumental scandal.
The body being a tool of the mind, I see that in TRA ideology as Charlie says, but I wonder more the body being reduced to a tool of the ego - reduced to an object to be cut up, shaped, brought into line - not allowed its own state of being. Much of our culture punishes the body, distorts it, starves it, bloats it, cuts it etc. This to me is a wider illness than just trans. What we do to our own bodies we would never do to any animal. Culturally I worry we are being warmed up for worse to come. Body modification for business profit. More productive employees, just have this implant if you want the job. Nobody is going to make you of course, but you will want the job.
Oh boy!
Although I appreciate & enjoy good faith debates like this, I can't help but think such debates are trying to rationalise bad faith arguments. What is the point? Instead of debating the issue, surely it's pertinent in today's society to first cross-examine those making the claim/accusation to ascertain if it's even worth debating, or if it's just a useless bad faith argument that should be dismissed. I've wasted so much time trying to have a good faith debate with a bad faith actor who was just trying to pull a fast one.
But many who are Pro are not bad faith. I don't see Daniel Radcliffe (say) as bad. Naive sure
@@garryjones8050 Good point.
That's a lot of ideology for a supposedly anti-ideology video.
That whole perspective of "software issue" vs. "hardware issue", for example, sounds like two made-up newfangled category ideas, not aligned e.g. with a distinction between physical and mental anomalies.
The idea that having an unfitting body requires a soul is another ideological doctrine. If consciousness emerges purely from natural processes in the brain, there will still be a conscious brain in a body that may or may not feel wrong for that brain.
Of course, the natural consequence of a physical brain in a physical body would be that, in order to fix the problem, it _might_ be possible to fix the body and it _might_ be possible to fix the brain. Now, many people reject fixing the brain because they object a sudden cut in who they are as a conscious person, similar to how many autistic people feel that they wouldn't be themselves if they weren't autistic. But the main reason conversion therapy is so widely rejected isn't because of "gendered souls" or personhood, but because it simply does not work (we have tried).
I hate myself
People trapped in the perverted lgbt lifestyle can be set free.
I feel like there's a genius comedian living in Amy.
There IS a perfectly good control group for gender affirming care treatments - the kids on the long wait lists. No, the subjects cannot be "blinded" but the researchers (at least those doing the stats) can be. I am not even sure blinding the researchers is necessary, in that the follow-up is by physical and psych exam and or symptom survey, i.e, there are objective means that can be checked for "fidelity" (rigorous implementation and analysis of tools and results). Outcomes for subjects with a puberty blocker Rx can be compared with those who present with same demographic and symptoms, but who were not treated.
Trans is all about hormones.
Medical steps.
What about the inside of a human.
It's not all outside appearance.
But its reduced to body modification.
Without counting the inner essence.
as a trans person, being trans has nothing to do with being born in the wrong body, but everything with the freedom to change one's own body
Well people get tattoos and piercings. They don't think it's changed their sex. So, surely there's something more about "being trans" than just the freedom to change your body? Do you believe you're a different sex from that you were assigned at birth? Or are you just play-acting, immitating the target sex you want to appear as? Something else? Genuinely interested to know. Personally, I value nature and naturalness, so I'd never get a tattoo, but others consider their body some kind of canvas to express various things. I don't mind if it's an informed adult and the tax payer isn't paying the bill. But the tax payer often is paying the bill for "trans" body modifications. While we have no room in the hospital corridors, let alone the wards, for sick people.
"Wholistic" counselling, therapy … requires time, patience, assessment not judgement or categorising/labelling, suck skilled practitioners are few and far between … not expediency, or the most convenient option, nor the parasites and materialists that profit by manipulating what’s on offer to "help" the person … anyway this younger female has learnt and matured through a series of experiences that many will not be understood by the "average" immature Kidults. 😉🙂
I met a few woman to men Tras.
I work at a social program.
All of these have one thing in common:
Deep horrible childhood tra uma.
All of them experienced xual violence as little girls.
I think the want to be men to heal that Trauma.
"If I was a boy it wouldn't happen".
I think they want to feel safe.
What I understand. Erase the reason why it happened.
And the community preys on these women.
I know where they are coming from but trust me being a boy wouldn't of helped it would of made the impact of those events land in a different way and being a guy would it's a different kind of well that was shit. maybe if I was a girl the effects of such things could be more easily explained away, it wouldn't change anything tho.
There is moving on but I never could till i got that POS to face some kind of justice.
That and just ya need to except that crappy things happen except that it's shaped who you have grown to become and do the best with the time you have left. Maybe help some that have had the same problems, it's what gote through
Wow what a thing to post on my main account
And there are plenty of young girls who haven’t experienced this yet go down this road. It would be really interesting to see what these people were watching and listening to over a period of time when they decided that as girl they wanted to become a boy or when they were a boy they wanted to become a girl. One of things people don’t talk about is that there is a very big welcoming community online for people that are confused about gender.
3:50 this sounds very calvinist.
As a gay dude I was born this way. I struggled against it for decades.
Same here. The only reason you probably struggled with it, was because some tosser was telling you how boys should and should not behave, and other bullshit at the time. (trying to "diagnose" you with some non-existant thing, because you were just being you)
This happened to me, And I have not forgot.
And now this woke bullshit comes along.
Hardware / Software analogy is very confusing.
Pretty sure there are better ways to express the same idea.
It's the perfect analogy. Read The Madness of Crowds.
@@hudcomih if I need to read a whole book to understand an analogy it is an bad analogy.
@@lastmanstanding5423 It's not a bad analogy at all. Your phone is hardware. It is how it is. You can't change its physical characteristics. An app is software. It can be installed, uninstalled, modified, etc.
Nature/nurture
Life without context is very confusing. It's on you to find the context. Your ignorance is not an objective measure; if this GOOD analogy doesn't make sense to you, you really should work on that.
Oh see. Its an anecdote from one person, i can find 10 other shows proving the opposite. So who AM I GPNNA BELIEVE (OH THE STRUGGLE). this generalizing needs to stop. Theres plenty kinds of people out there. The end.
Cringed at the point where nasally male said porn culture was "wonderful" after explaining the oppressive and violating impact porn has on women. Basically stop horning posting and be professional
Stopped listening when the girl said "they believe in a creator"...really? C'mon. They think that they are in the wrong body randomly like biological mutation. Hurting your credibility with that stupid strawman and blatantly obvious religious bias.
This is the dumbest way to listen to people. You're not listening for points. You're looking for an excuse to disregard everything. You'll find what you want, but you won't be informed.... so why bother?
@natmarelnam4871 I'm listening for authenticity and objectivity. Not idealogy and bad arguments. Be better.
@@rcisneros310 No, you are listening for what you want to hear, and any excuse to dismiss it if it's not to your liking.
Some of them DO believe in a Creator, some don’t. It’s not a straw man argument, I think if you hadn’t stopped listening and had allowed the nuance of context to fill in the rest, you might’ve understood the point.
Stopped listening? Honestly, this is exactly what trans activists do, when they meet a road block or a decent counter argument. There are plenty of trans people who just want to get on with their lives without persecution, and so they should. There are also plenty of religious people who want to just get on with their lives without persecution, and so they should. Can you see the irony?
If you do no harm to others in your way of life, why attack other people's belief system? When we stop listening, that's when we stop understanding, stop empathising, and stop being decent human beings.
What is this “software”,”hardware” BS - you’re talking about Human beings !
she's using it as an analogy.
Hardware: the physical human body.
Software: consciousness.
You don't know what an analogy is???
@johnloveday2161 I bet they talk to you slowly as well.
It is called an analogy.
It must be exhausting to be offended by something you don‘t even understand.
gender is a social construct
conservatives demonstrating their fear of education as usual 😂
I really enjoyed this discussion and wanted to reflect a couple of thoughts back to you guys.
One, I understand the temptation to title your videos in a provocative manner to get more clicks. But in truth, no one was "slamming" woke ideology here. You were having a thoughtful and balanced discussion. It's saddens me when I see woke-critical discussions being framed as personal attacks between enemies. One of the biggest harms the woke movement is producing is an intense division between warring tribes, and we need to work hard to counteract that by communicating in a respectful, deescalating way, even as we confront their falsehoods, because our true goal is not to bully the other into submission, but to unite people in truth and mutual respect. Failing to do that, we lower ourselves to their level.
Secondly, the male speaker in this video was a kind of straw that broke the camel's back for me, in regards to this stammering thing that I have seen in so many male British intellectuals. It's always struck me intuitively as an affectation and so after watching this video I Google searched it and it turns out that yes, this is some kind of British cultural affectation, presumably to sound more reasonable or something?
To me it registers on a visceral level as inauthentic, although in some bizarre way I can feel a temptation to speak that way myself, because it indirectly forces the listener to give me more attention; to work a little harder at receiving my message. And isn't it attention that we're all craving, whether secretly or overtly? Just a thought for my brother's across the pond.