Just a note from a 20 year residential electrician. First you nail up boxes. Then you drill holes to pass wire through. So, yeah, sawdust in boxes. Also, most problems I have ever seen are caused by arcing at a bad connection. Just think, an arc is used to melt steel together. always twist wires together before you wire nut them securely. I have been on service calls where the problem was a melted push-in connector, so they are not perfect. As far as loads go, most failures of this type I have seen were from running a portable electric heater. It does not even have to happen at the receptacle where the load is connected. If there is a bad connection at another device upstream it can happen there. Just my 4 cents worth.
Agree 100% I ALWAYS, every time twist the conductors together evenly and tightly. Always use the screw terminals on receptacles. (avoid the push in b.s) In my experience the push in connectors don't stand up to any considerable electrical load, I don't like using them.
I agree with both comments. I just wanted to show a situation that could happen under worse case conditions. I didn't even use the stab-in part of the receptacle. I think I might for my next video. Maybe melt the plug 😀
indie209 only an arc fault circuit breaker is designed to detect these types of faults (arcs) the ontario electrical code requires afci breakers for all receptacle circuits in residential dwellings since 2013
The wire nuts are designed to make a perfect twist. Sometimes I'll use a wirenut just to pretwist a big bundle, if it looks stressed, then I'll throw it out and put a fresh one on. Think about twisting 6 wires with a Linesman plier... not going to look as good as a wirenut connection. I do get paranoid often though with larger wire groupings and back the wire nut off to be sure all conductors got a good twist. But if it's 2 or 3 wires and I stripped the same amount of insulation off each wire, as long as all the conductors are lined up at the strip point, I know the wire nut will make a perfect connection. I generally grasp the wires about 3 inches away from where the nut is, and hold it firm so the twist doesn't migrate down the wires. Usually 9 twists does the trick.
Now this is the type of video I’m looking for. I searched “All ways fires can start” but most results are videos showing burning houses, news stories, ect. I want to see more educational content on such an important topic!
This is exactly what happened to my sister's cabin. It was in escrow to be sold and they did a "last minute jury rigged fix". She left a heater plugged in while she took a day trip. Came back and it was totally destroyed (thankfully didn't take the forest with it!). Fire department reported cause was faulty wiring. The problem is real.
oiljerk, ha ha. Yes, but it was just an example. It could have easily been a space heater and a vacuum cleaner, both which could be running for over 10 minutes. All while you were sleeping!!
Spaceman Rick I have never seen anybody sleep walk but if you are using your vacuum while you are asleep for over nine minutes I think you have a problem go a doctor
It will save your electric bill some but it'll be more expensive replacing hot water and groceries all the time. Just let her RIP and unplug unnecessary stuff. Only thing needing continuous current is water heater (if electric), fridge/freezer and HVAC if you have central heat/air. Though I wouldn't wear out plugs/outlets to your large appliances if you don't have to lol. More trouble than it's all worth really.
35 year Red Seal Electrician, great video Andrew. I have seen this probably over a thousand times.Loose connections are very common. In many cases the electrician or handyman thinks the connection is good because the wire connector gets tight, but in many cases, especially with multiple wires in the connection it is very common for one of the wires to back out of the connection unnoticed and presents a loose connection and a fire hazard. Now, as for all your smart ass comments boys. Women plug in the curling iron to heat it up for several minutes then plug in there hairdryer and go for several more minutes. More than enough to present this exact situation Andrew has shown here.want another one boys and this is usually YOU. You plug in two car block heaters in the winter to one outlet or two outlets on the same circuit and do the same thing. Lets see, space heaters going full out and then someone wants to vacuum and i could go on and on. Keep up the greats videos Andrew .CHEERS
Thank you for the kind comment. It is winter time where I live right now. Just fixed a junction box that was used to splice car plug branch cct's. Box was way too full like 30 wires in a 6x6x4 pvc box. All of the heat melted the pvc box. Made it easy to find the problem. My next video will be about multiple conductors all pulling 12 amps and the heat created. Thanks again
Nice demonstration and very well explained. It's scary to think this could be happing inside your walls. I've gone over and checked almost every outlet, switch and junction box that I could find in my house to try to prevent shit like this from happening.
@@gatewaysolo104 Haha, thank you I chuckled at this one imagining a continuous stream of sawdust after construction is complete (like it's just raining).
I almost had a fire today. The power cable for my CCTV wire melted apart halfway down the wire until the pieces were in two. I only noticed it because I saw an orange glow on the side of my desk. The thing is, I wouldn't normally be home when I discovered it so it might've been a different story :/
I suffered a similar problem a while ago: I had a freezer and a microwave on a power bar, somebody plugged and unplugged the microwave and in doing so, loosened the bar's plug on the outlet. the freezer remained plugged onto the extension, and worked out as usual over night. at some point, the arc between the outlet and the plug melted the plug's own frame, loosening it even more, until it melted the wire inside the plug, and the wires shorted out. I heard the breaker pop downstairs and went looking, and nothing seemed out of place, no burns anywhere, no appliances shorted out, nothing. reset the breaker, plugged everything back in, and when I grabbed the extension cord, I noticed the plug had melted. taking it apart, I saw the interior all burned up. fortunately, the breakers had been changed a while back, replacing the old ones which were almost 30 years old. I doubt those old breakers would have popped.
Part of your issue to start with was having it plugged into a power bar! High-current items, such as anything with a motor, fan, or heater or high - voltage transformer, such as in a microwave, should be plugged directly into the wall. Of course, in the case of in the video, it wouldn't have mattered, but, still, always plug high-current stuff into the wall directly.
@@EphemeralProductions I can't remember the details of it anymore, but the microwave was usually plugged directly onto the outlet. it had been like that for years, even though the microwave is rarely used, and often left unplugged. it was because we moved the microwave onto a support rig that an extension was needed, and the only place to plug it on to, was the freezer's outlet, so we moved both to the extension. not my problem anymore.... I fixed the broken plug, set it right, and went about my business. if it pops again, it can burn the house down for all I care... I won't fight stupidity.
Check any woodworking shop and you will find sawdust in all electrical boxes and gear. All electrical products need maintenance, for a long time it has been install and forget it.
Dust gets in the boxes and builds up over time. The sawdust isn't unrealistic. This scenario does happen. Most of the time the box contains the fire and it doesn't burn down the house. All connections need to be inside a box. My house has a few connections that aren't but it's old knob and tube wiring, wrapped, soldered, and sleeved.
he should have lost you at loose wire nut, as a good electrician or even competent handyman wouldn't have done that... for the record... old homes acquire dust and bugs in their outlet and switch boxes.
Excellent video. I have photos of a couple boxes where this has happened. After the plastic melted the circuit operated just fine yet until some type of vibration would cause the now exposed wire to contact the metal box and trip the breaker.
When you turned the toaster on, you could hear the RPM of the hair dryer drop. That's kinda why when I move into a new house, or add an outlet, I plug in an extension cord, and add some high load devices to that. Then I grab a multimeter and check the voltage on the extension cord before and after turning the load on.. Voltage going down with the device on = check what's wrong. It might not catch everything, but it sure has pointed me towards some crappy wiring in houses..
Great demonstration! Give it time, dust actually collects in switch and outlet boxes. The dust provides the fuel for the arc. Here's some info. Screws on outlets and switches actually loosen up over time. Creating loose connections. The same can happen when aluminum and copper wires are twisted together and capped using a wirenut. I had happen at my parents house. The house built in 1963. The was wired by an electrician. I'm guessing at that time, there was no clear understanding about copper and aluminum creating electrical issues.
Happened to me today.... thanks god i was home and noticed the smell and smoke! I was on time, the wires were still in good condition. I replaced the connectors for WAGO 221 instead of these blue screw-on connectors.
This is a good demonstration. Thanks for taking the time to make this video. In a metal box its not so bad but in a plastic box it could easily be worse. Especially if it burns into an attic or if its in a kitchen fan or receptacle where there sometimes is cooking grease accumulations. There is often wood debris in boxes from construction or infiltration afterwards.
"An Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter would have tripped the circuit right away" Doubt it. They claim to but they've failed a lot of practical tests for series arcs.
I wanna bastardize this phrase. "Loose wires sink ships", "loose lips sink fires", I dunno. I'm not finding a creative funny enough one. Thank you a ton for this demonstration of loose wiring arcing. It's videos like these and the short circuited lithium 18650 videos that really make things real to some.
As soon as a single puff of smoke came out of that box this video was completely justified. Many boxes would be so crammed with wires it would have immediately began melting other wires once the marret was gone.
For starters, you must have a 20amp breaker to allow a hairdryer and toaster running together. Most breakers are 15 Amps - so we are already in an unusual situation. It's extremely rare for modern homes (in Canada) to be built with wood, instead they use gypsum boards and metal studs. The amount of saw dust (nice to see you put it in later) in your box would be inconceivable. In a rare wood home construction given the timing an electrician comes in to connect the wiring (after the wood work is done) and that the electric box is generally enclosed. He (or she) should be bright enough to wipe out any dust (especially saw dust) if it happens to be visible in the box. Lastly and most importantly your video has just shown that even after a series of almost impossible events, the flame goes no where other than the box.
I'll give the video creator the benefit of the doubt and assume he didn't have the drier on high setting to give a current pull of 14A just under the trip setting. As for construction, in Ontario at least, houses are still built using wood studs, though gypsum drywall has been a standard for at least 45 years or more. Hot connections can still cause fires. They discovered that during the brief period that they installed aluminum wiring. Here's a link of new construction with the studs exposed under unexpected circumstance. www.niagarathisweek.com/news-story/8373625-winds-knock-down-niagara-falls-homes-under-construction/
You seem to forget that here in Canada, there are more DIY people doing their own electrical with no experience in electrical, so this type of horrible wiring is common. Just because the fire didn't go any further in THIS situation does not mean that this type of bad wiring would not cause a fire in many homes. Drive anywhere were new homes are being build and all I see is wood studs used.
chud67bbc Huh? Did I not acknowledge that you can have wood studs but it is rare? As for DIY - hey I'm talking about the video case example. I think the lesson here is - use a steel case for your wire connections (especially if you have wood saw dust all over the place).
About 2 years ago when I worked for Palmer Foods in the frozen food section this is what started a fire the fire was burning inside the freezer and in area of which no one could see when you started smelling smoke but we couldn't figure out where it was coming from due to the ventilation system later we found out that there had been an electrical fault and the exact way that you demonstrated inside the freezer motor housing what's completely inaccessible.
I live at apartments in San Antonio Texas 2017. I just had a San Antonio Housing Authority inspection that passed the kitchen having no GFCI except for one electrical outlet. The rules in 2014 were that all the kitchen is to have GFCI. Also, in this apartment are several electrical outlets that are loose. The plugs fall out and the electrical testing device I just bought says the grounding is shaky or lacking on several. I had surge protectors on 2 of these and then I noticed lights crackling and blinking and then the surge protectors stopped working completely. I wrote a work order July 5th for these problems, but so far no one has showed up to fix this. The apartment manager said that the SAHA would have to show up again to inspect again before these problems are fixed by the apartments. But when I call the several inspection managers at SAHA, they do not call me back. Today is the 15th. Why do these apartments--Arriba apartments, 5200 Blanco--not fix these electrical issues whether or not SAHA inspects or not? Loose electrical outlets lead to fires, right? So I immediately bought rental insurance for this apartment because I am thinking that all of these apartments are having these same problems.
Hi Andrew Nice Video to demonstrate the ignition by faulty circuit arrangement. Just want to know that how the wires are connected to cause the fault and why the Circuit breaker doesnt function well
The conductors were not mechanically connected together. We usually do this by twisting them together. The breaker did not trip because we never exceeded the maximum amount of current that the breaker is rated for. (15 amps). This type of breaker requires a large short circuit current to trip because the trip mechanism is mechanical not electronic like those found in a AFCI breaker.
The current of the receptacle was maintained at 14 amps. If you review the video I mention that. A 15 amp break can be loaded to 80% of it's rating when the loads are continuous. I set the video up to demonstrate that the circuit breaker will not trip if it in not overloaded.
Does any body pay attention to anything they see, read or hear anymore? Re-watch the video, this time pay attention. Stephen, I hope your not an electrician. Scott, he clearly states it is NOT an Arc-fault breaker. Pay attention!
Spaceman Rick Spaceman Rick He says only that he is using a standard breaker and that the circuit is wired according to the CEC. Where I'm from standard just implies it's single pole. I need to ask for a non-AFCI explicitly, hence me asking for clarification. No need to be rude.
The next video, how to replace all the burned wire? Same thing just happened to me when I plugged in the portable heater, fuse didn’t trip and smoke was coming out. So when the outlets are plugged in and in use or light switches are turned on, it’s a good habit to touch the surface and feel any excessive heat is being generated, I caught a few already in my older home, I guess my next project would be open up every single outlet and switch and inspect and redo all the connections if necessary. You’ll amazed what kind connection people used back then.
t0nito yes but those can melt to if the wire is not pushed in fully same with the nut if the wires arnt tight either way it’s called someone being lazy and a fire can start with either one doesn’t matter which connected is used
I had an outlet fire happen to me last winter back in 2016 in my bedroom at night. i was lucky i was still awake and my parents too. When the wires were loose and started the fire. Got it put out, turned the power off, then called the electrician, and got the wall cut open to replace the box and wires also had the electrician inspect the other outlets and none were loose but when it happened that was scary trust me .
kool demo, but i would replace that GE panel and breakers with Square "D" (LOL) cause i guarantee Square "D" would have tripped, plus that fire shouldn't go too far inside that metal box if it was fully enclosed with very little oxygen to fuel it, that's why all junctions are suppose to be done in a box, just another layer of protection. but on the other hand you still have to have it corrected.
I couldn't even finish this video. Our house had caught fire in march of 2017 and it had happened while everyone was asleep. Cause was chalked up to the wood stove, but after going through everything it could of been one of several things. Electrical being one of the thoughts.
It's a brand name turned colloquial term for wire nuts in Canada, kind of a nationalist thing as they were invented by a Canadian Scottsman by the name of William P. Marr in 1914 though only patented in the 30s
First of all I noticed that you moved that wire I'm sure that is what caused the arcing. Anyways I use to live in a 30x65 Double Wide Mobile Home with Aluminum wiring and EVERY year I would go and check every single outlet and light ceiling fan and light fixture because I was terrified to electrical fires.
people claim these wire nuts never come lose.. bs they do.. i have a 30 year old house, i replaced all the recetables and light fixtures and light switchs in.. because i dont like yellow ones and old light fixtures.. and id say 30% of the wire nuts were extremely loose.. in my barn thats 60 years old, the wire nuts in the receptacles werent even tight anymore icould pull them off basically.. another issue with wire nuts.. is some people dont twist them enough.. you should turn them entire the wire start to twist.. or until its too hard to twist anymore.. then you need to pull each wire to be sure and also look inside. also gatta be careful cutting insulation off.. or if wires were bent too much. twisting them in nuts can break the wires at the cut.. seen that dozens of time
Great video! 👍🏻This happened to me. Discovered it today on wiring to a wall thermostat while painting. Once this situation occurs, do I need to replace the line wire that overheated, meaning behind the junction box… and if so, from where… the previous box or service panel, one floor below? 🤷🏻♂️P.S.: Happy Holidays! Hope you’ve been well the past 7 years! 😉
A closed device box would have contained and snuffed a fire due to lack of O2 in the box... One of the main purposes of enclosing connections. This guy has an open box, doesn't get the fire he wants, and adds sawdust to get a little flame effect.
The two (or more) wires should have been twisted together 3-4 turns, trimmed and THEN had the wire nut put on it. Makes a super good connection that won't get loose - especially with a wire nut on it. Only maroons simply jam them in and twist ... or as shown here, lightly insert them into the wire nut without twisting. Arc Fault breakers are great, but cost 3-4 times what a standard breaker costs. On new work, they are required, but when replacing a faulty, old, QO or similar breaker, many folks can't justify the expense. Plus, if you are unable to smell the horrible stink of that smoke, and/or can't see it billowing out of the box, there's something wrong with you! I suppose this scenario could occur over night when running a heater. Even if a plastic face plate is used, in a sealed box, all of the O2 will get used up pretty quick. Do the test over with a sealed box please, and show us the result. Who would leave sawdust in an electrical box anyway?!
That is why you twist your wires together before wire nutting them! Simply twisting a wire but on without twisting the wires together is asking for a problem.
If the saw dust does not ignite, can I add a bit of alcohol to the whole thing and light it with a match? I think this would present a realistic scenario as I often have alcohol in my bathroom cupboard.
For? This is a typical metal electrical box, or terminal box as you will, with convenient knock outs. I prefer it better than your typical German plastic boxes that break apart the moment I bump into it with falling wires everywhere that never gets fixed ever again (Too many houses I've been in Germany with situations like that). TUV isn't going to prevent any of this as they're just a certification lab. Meanwhile, these metal boxes are all over the place and outlasting the owners. The only difference between this box and a typical terminal box in Germany, it looks prettier with a wago terminal connector. Doesn't look pretty after I bump into it with me knee however.
If YOU are overwhelmed with typical distributor or bifurcation doses in Germany, then you should really stick to the us-American handicraft solution for suicidal persons. But it's not our junction boxes :)
+/dev/random yea lets conveniently forget that one is conductive and the other is not. totally not the biggest risk factor with electrical installations.
The wire nut makes the twist, I have seen this when I do it, it is meant to tighten both connections; there is a metal cone inside that also shields both connections.
Absolutely loose connections (not loose wires, the wire isn't a wire if its loose...) can cause a fire. It is pretty impressive how bad that arc gets without tripping the breaker...instead of adding crap to the scenario for effect, lets see how it would play out if sealed up, would we see smoke? Would it be obvious at all?
AUS and NZL are standard 10A per circuit breaker fuse is better than sorry. However that wire cable for building should be standard rules. Otherwise illegal, you will lose and burn a house !
WizardmasterNZ usually when it happens people rushed and this same is can happen with a wago connector if it’s lose at least the box is metal and grounded unlike those cheap plastic ones
IDEAL PUSH CONNECTORS.............I prefer to use them instead of wire nuts. I never did like wire nuts. In House Construction, AFCI circuits would be installed mainly in sleeping quarters (bedrooms). Places in your home where a Toaster and Hair Dryer are more likely to be used, would be protected with a GFCI circuit. Perhaps the best thing for the industry to do, in terms of people safety, is to develop a device (Circuit Breaker) that is able to detect Over Current, Ground Fault, and Arc Faults, a 3-in-1 protective device.
Griff Mustard yes but usually no one has time to push the wires in fully on an install job it’s rush and go which can make the connection loose and start a fire
Good illustration. I don't really get why people have an issue with the saw dust. It's not like this was a bet and you cheated. You clearly demonstrated that poorly connected wires can cause a fire inside an electrical box.
Would love to see this done with a metal box and a plastic box - I hate plastic boxes, for some reason they just scream "fire hazard" at me, because, in theory, they aren't as capable as metal boxes when it comes to containing a small fire from a faulty connection as you demonstrated here!
Actually the boxes must be made of a flame-retardant material, and special plastic could fulfill this. This type of plastic is self-extinguishing. This is standard in Germany for decades. The last metal boxes I've seen here were installed in an early 1950s electric installation. On the outside they were plated with lead to prevent corrosion (plaster is corrosive) and they were coated with tar on the inside for electric insulation. But the best thing is to ensure that all connections are ok and you don't have any lose connections in your installation. Precaution is always the best thing. And 90°C is really bad, the PVC insulation of the wires is beginning to degrade at 70°C. The effects are accumulating. Every time the conductor temperature is rising above 70°C the insulation is degrading more and more until it's totally destroyed.
It's looking this way, a pic of a junction box: www.bauexpertenforum.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=55966&d=1456821908 Sometimes dried tar, sometimes paper impregnated with tar. You may be certain to get black fingers if you work on them. During the 1960s these boxes were replaced by boxes made of plastic. It's a mix of old and new cables on the pic. The cable with brown, blue and green/yellow is new (past 2006), the other wires are from 1950s and 60s. The newer cable is NYM-type (N=normalised, Y=PVC-insulation, M= sheathing). The old installation was made with single wires in conduits. The conduits were made of steel sheet and insulated with tar impregnated paper on the inside. The outside was lead-coated to prevent corrosion, plaster is corrosive. The installation itself is from the 1950s or earlier. The connectors are old style Wago-connectors which are in use since the 1980s here.
This shouldn't even be a concern. User proper voltages (230/400V), proper terminals and there is no problems ! Never seen properly made junction box catch on fire (even on older than 10 yr)
Every time I turned on the microwave the light was flickering and the fuse in the plug blew..I thought it was a faulty light bulb. Ordered a new one for £16 changed it but same problem 😮 I decided to open the socket and found a loose cable , screwed it tight and problem solved . How can the wire get lose after years ?? Just noticed that my Coffee grinder (which was on the same socket) doesn't work anymore. Not only i wasted £16 on a new bulb the loose wire also blew up my Coffee grinder £50
When he showed the temperature on the device and it said 91 I was like," Oh 91 Fahrenheit? That's not TOO horrible-" then he said Celsius and I just about lost my jaw when it dropped to the core of the Earth. Getting that high in temp in mere minutes is honestly horrifying
so many trolling and joking comments but this is seriously dangerous stuff. And to people saying -" i don't sleep with my toaster and hair drier on" ever left your TV on ? or left multiple devices charging? :P there's plenty of electronics you leave plugged in and working without thinking about it
People are complaining of the sawdust when there's smoke and smoldering plastic inside the case. The sawdust is not the issue here. You got me concerned, but I couldn't quite understand how the wires were improperly split, could you please elaborate on that? I live in Brazil and our connections usually don't have that blue plastic gasket around the junctions, so I couldn't quite translate your video to my regional conditions. It did, however, get me worried.
Horacio Filho When splicing wires we strip back the insulation on the wires and twist the copper together. That way they are a complete electrical circuit and they are also mechanically tight. This video shows what happens when the wires are not twisted together.
I'm not sure, so you placed some sawdust in the wire-nut. The heat from in the box didn't cause the wires or anything to catch on fire. Now what if the box was closed up so heat can build up. I suspect this happens more than often and they simply call an electrician afterwards (not noticing smoke) to find the issue and fix it.
So wire splices with untaped wire nuts inside a metal socket box are normal in the Canadian electrical code? I don't know many electricians that would do things like that.. Maybe some DIYers or maintenance man but not a real electrician..
I am using 150 watts on four 1875 watt outlets in one room. That is a total of 600 watts. should I expect flashing and crackling LED bulbs on 2 of these outlets which were hooked up to new surge protectors? Or 4 incandescent bulbs in the bathroom to flash and then not work? Could be the switch hooked up to these outlets. Then these 2 outlets stop working, and show to my circuit tester open neutral. And then an outlet in the living room stops working all of this at the same time? The owners to the apartments I live at say it is my fault that the outlets stopped working and the lights flashed and blinked. These owners did not tell me that these apartments were built in the 1974s with a good chance to have aluminum wiring. They did not tell me that there are loose outlets in all the apartments that could mean loose wires, loose screws or loose blades. Aren't the owners at fault completely if there is a fire at all? Am I not supposed to expect 1875 watts at each outlet as a part of my all bills paid rent lease? I just unplugged all the wires from loose outlets in my apartment. Because I had to read about loose outlets on my own, I read that there is an excellent chance that using an appliance at a loose outlet can immediately start a small lightning bolt/arc to shoot through the walls.
Suppose the junction was plastered. Suppose there is fuel ie. sawdust or plastic. Where does the fire gets the oxygen ? Seems far fetced although having an AFCI installed gives you piece of mind.
Are you 13. I was going to say that usually how a lot of electricians get their start either by being electrocuted or starting to tinker at a young age.
Ive has a few power points go in my rental house in the last couple of years... melting the switch’s etc on. The house is maybe 4 years old. Plus my ceiling fans are just really weird too... just shows how crap some sparkies (Aussie slang for electrician)...
I messed with little motors and little wires since I was a baby. My brain won't let my hands not twist the everloving hell out of any wires and as a result my wrists stink to this day. I see what lazy gets.
How could they both be in a wire nut and not touching. Also why did it require you to do high amperage devices? Based off of my research arcing conditions are scaled based on voltage not amperage.
It could be happening in your walls as your watching this but the smell wouldn’t be easily ignored unless u weren’t home or it happened in another room
Afci look like they will be a good safety CB some day, but this is not that day. Far to many false trips. An open box and saw dust!?!? What happens in a closed box without a combustible?
My daughter mentioned that it happened when she turned on the light switch in her dorm restroom. The spark almost burn her face had she not move fast enough. It also flamed after smoking. What can she do while waiting for an electrician to come check in two days time?
Happend to me when i used my portabe car heater in an outside outlet. One of the electrical plug breaked of in the outlet when the heater was on. And caused a fire. It took 7 seconds for the circuit breaker to cut the electricity from when the fire started.
Just a note from a 20 year residential electrician. First you nail up boxes. Then you drill holes to pass wire through. So, yeah, sawdust in boxes. Also, most problems I have ever seen are caused by arcing at a bad connection. Just think, an arc is used to melt steel together. always twist wires together before you wire nut them securely. I have been on service calls where the problem was a melted push-in connector, so they are not perfect. As far as loads go, most failures of this type I have seen were from running a portable electric heater. It does not even have to happen at the receptacle where the load is connected. If there is a bad connection at another device upstream it can happen there. Just my 4 cents worth.
Agree 100%
I ALWAYS, every time twist the conductors together evenly and tightly.
Always use the screw terminals on receptacles. (avoid the push in b.s)
In my experience the push in connectors don't stand up to any considerable electrical load, I don't like using them.
I agree with both comments. I just wanted to show a situation that could happen under worse case conditions. I didn't even use the stab-in part of the receptacle. I think I might for my next video.
Maybe melt the plug 😀
Wouldn't the circuit breaker cut-off the current if this happens?
indie209 only an arc fault circuit breaker is designed to detect these types of faults (arcs) the ontario electrical code requires afci breakers for all receptacle circuits in residential dwellings since 2013
The wire nuts are designed to make a perfect twist. Sometimes I'll use a wirenut just to pretwist a big bundle, if it looks stressed, then I'll throw it out and put a fresh one on. Think about twisting 6 wires with a Linesman plier... not going to look as good as a wirenut connection. I do get paranoid often though with larger wire groupings and back the wire nut off to be sure all conductors got a good twist. But if it's 2 or 3 wires and I stripped the same amount of insulation off each wire, as long as all the conductors are lined up at the strip point, I know the wire nut will make a perfect connection. I generally grasp the wires about 3 inches away from where the nut is, and hold it firm so the twist doesn't migrate down the wires. Usually 9 twists does the trick.
Now this is the type of video I’m looking for. I searched “All ways fires can start” but most results are videos showing burning houses, news stories, ect. I want to see more educational content on such an important topic!
This is exactly what happened to my sister's cabin. It was in escrow to be sold and they did a "last minute jury rigged fix". She left a heater plugged in while she took a day trip. Came back and it was totally destroyed (thankfully didn't take the forest with it!). Fire department reported cause was faulty wiring. The problem is real.
This needs a few more amps and more sawdust.
and some gasoline
NO! It needs Photonicinduction!
fallenwout 😂
The sawdust comes from when the electricians are drilling through the studs. Happens way more often than you would think
@@4schitzangiggles what if I use aluminium studs like a normal person?
Well I'll be SURE not to place sawdust in my boxes moving forward!
It will still catch fire with or without the sawdust. Plus there will be other debris and dust that will gather inside the box.
Also, make sure you don't use a toaster and hairdryer simultaneously, while you're asleep.
Nobody likes a dusty box.
i think its more of a comment on how comical it was that one minute there was no sawdust, and the next it was full of it.
winner!
I’m fast asleep, toasting a bagel, and drying my hair.
a space heater can pull the watts.
or a pentium 4 computeer
For 9 minutes, simultaneously. Whilst removing the box cover and sprinkling some sawdust.
on a 15 amp 14-2 recepticle
Mark Jones hi fast asleep, toasting a bagel, and drying my hair.
I’m dad
Great video on how improper connections may result in a serious potentially life threatening situation. Thank you for sharing.
If it takes 9 minutes for your toaster to make toast, I'd get a new one.
oiljerk, ha ha. Yes, but it was just an example.
It could have easily been a space heater and a vacuum cleaner, both which could be running for over 10 minutes.
All while you were sleeping!!
@ Spaceman Rick Vacuum cleaner while your'e sleeping? Woah, show me that
Who uses a vacuum cleaner in their sleep?
Spaceman Rick I have never seen anybody sleep walk but if you are using your vacuum while you are asleep for over nine minutes I think you have a problem go a doctor
This conversation is hilarious!
This a fantastic video to show how electrical boxes are designed to prevent fires despite loose wires.... and saw dust. Thanks!
Thanks for getting me scared now. Guess I’ll shut off the main every night now.
It will save your electric bill some but it'll be more expensive replacing hot water and groceries all the time. Just let her RIP and unplug unnecessary stuff. Only thing needing continuous current is water heater (if electric), fridge/freezer and HVAC if you have central heat/air. Though I wouldn't wear out plugs/outlets to your large appliances if you don't have to lol. More trouble than it's all worth really.
35 year Red Seal Electrician, great video Andrew. I have seen this probably over a thousand times.Loose connections are very common. In many cases the electrician or handyman thinks the connection is good because the wire connector gets tight, but in many cases, especially with multiple wires in the connection it is very common for one of the wires to back out of the connection unnoticed and presents a loose connection and a fire hazard. Now, as for all your smart ass comments boys. Women plug in the curling iron to heat it up for several minutes then plug in there hairdryer and go for several more minutes. More than enough to present this exact situation Andrew has shown here.want another one boys and this is usually YOU. You plug in two car block heaters in the winter to one outlet or two outlets on the same circuit and do the same thing. Lets see, space heaters going full out and then someone wants to vacuum and i could go on and on. Keep up the greats videos Andrew .CHEERS
Thank you for the kind comment. It is winter time where I live right now. Just fixed a junction box that was used to splice car plug branch cct's. Box was way too full like 30 wires in a 6x6x4 pvc box. All of the heat melted the pvc box. Made it easy to find the problem. My next video will be about multiple conductors all pulling 12 amps and the heat created.
Thanks again
Adding sawdust?? Why not gunpowder?
He really wanted that fire to start..
Why don't we just give it a hand grenade? *BOOM* SEEE!?!?! FAULTY WIRING!!!!
Faulty wiring after a grenade, more like what wiring after a grenade.
Just because sawdust from the wooden framed is more likely to be found inside this electrical box
Because saw dust is basically the same material your house is made of, dummy. Who builds a house using gunpowder?
This is why I never store my sawdust in my device boxes. I do store my grill lighters there though and so far no probs.
Nice demonstration and very well explained. It's scary to think this could be happing inside your walls. I've gone over and checked almost every outlet, switch and junction box that I could find in my house to try to prevent shit like this from happening.
You should clean out the piles of sawdust at least once a month.
@@gatewaysolo104 Haha, thank you I chuckled at this one imagining a continuous stream of sawdust after construction is complete (like it's just raining).
I almost had a fire today. The power cable for my CCTV wire melted apart halfway down the wire until the pieces were in two. I only noticed it because I saw an orange glow on the side of my desk. The thing is, I wouldn't normally be home when I discovered it so it might've been a different story :/
This is exactly what is happening to me, so thankful I was awake. I'm wondering how it could get fixed,any ideas?
I suffered a similar problem a while ago: I had a freezer and a microwave on a power bar, somebody plugged and unplugged the microwave and in doing so, loosened the bar's plug on the outlet.
the freezer remained plugged onto the extension, and worked out as usual over night.
at some point, the arc between the outlet and the plug melted the plug's own frame, loosening it even more, until it melted the wire inside the plug, and the wires shorted out.
I heard the breaker pop downstairs and went looking, and nothing seemed out of place, no burns anywhere, no appliances shorted out, nothing.
reset the breaker, plugged everything back in, and when I grabbed the extension cord, I noticed the plug had melted.
taking it apart, I saw the interior all burned up.
fortunately, the breakers had been changed a while back, replacing the old ones which were almost 30 years old.
I doubt those old breakers would have popped.
Part of your issue to start with was having it plugged into a power bar! High-current items, such as anything with a motor, fan, or heater or high - voltage transformer, such as in a microwave, should be plugged directly into the wall. Of course, in the case of in the video, it wouldn't have mattered, but, still, always plug high-current stuff into the wall directly.
@@EphemeralProductions I can't remember the details of it anymore, but the microwave was usually plugged directly onto the outlet.
it had been like that for years, even though the microwave is rarely used, and often left unplugged.
it was because we moved the microwave onto a support rig that an extension was needed, and the only place to plug it on to, was the freezer's outlet, so we moved both to the extension.
not my problem anymore.... I fixed the broken plug, set it right, and went about my business.
if it pops again, it can burn the house down for all I care... I won't fight stupidity.
You lost me when you added the sawdust.
Hire a better electrician then.
Check any woodworking shop and you will find sawdust in all electrical boxes and gear. All electrical products need maintenance, for a long time it has been install and forget it.
I guess the sawdust didn't start a fire because he ended the video.
Dust gets in the boxes and builds up over time. The sawdust isn't unrealistic. This scenario does happen. Most of the time the box contains the fire and it doesn't burn down the house. All connections need to be inside a box. My house has a few connections that aren't but it's old knob and tube wiring, wrapped, soldered, and sleeved.
he should have lost you at loose wire nut, as a good electrician or even competent handyman wouldn't have done that...
for the record... old homes acquire dust and bugs in their outlet and switch boxes.
Excellent video. I have photos of a couple boxes where this has happened. After the plastic melted the circuit operated just fine yet until some type of vibration would cause the now exposed wire to contact the metal box and trip the breaker.
When you turned the toaster on, you could hear the RPM of the hair dryer drop.
That's kinda why when I move into a new house, or add an outlet, I plug in an extension cord, and add some high load devices to that.
Then I grab a multimeter and check the voltage on the extension cord before and after turning the load on..
Voltage going down with the device on = check what's wrong.
It might not catch everything, but it sure has pointed me towards some crappy wiring in houses..
Great demonstration! Give it time, dust actually collects in switch and outlet boxes. The dust provides the fuel for the arc. Here's some info. Screws on outlets and switches actually loosen up over time. Creating loose connections.
The same can happen when aluminum and copper wires are twisted together and capped using a wirenut. I had happen at my parents house. The house built in 1963. The was wired by an electrician. I'm guessing at that time, there was no clear understanding about copper and aluminum creating electrical issues.
WOW, Thats Crazy. Now im Scared of Bagels and Hairdryers Now
Always twist bundles of wires together with a lineman before putting wire caps on.
Hair dryer will typically be plugged into a dedicated and protected BR circuit. Great demonstration though!
Sawdust is SOOO common inside of these things (I’m a GC so I see it all the time) lots of drywall as well, good additive👍🏼
Happened to me today.... thanks god i was home and noticed the smell and smoke! I was on time, the wires were still in good condition. I replaced the connectors for WAGO 221 instead of these blue screw-on connectors.
This is a good demonstration. Thanks for taking the time to make this video. In a metal box its not so bad but in a plastic box it could easily be worse. Especially if it burns into an attic or if its in a kitchen fan or receptacle where there sometimes is cooking grease accumulations. There is often wood debris in boxes from construction or infiltration afterwards.
francis white
Thank you for the comment. It has always been my intent to demonstrate the results of faulty workmanship.
"An Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter would have tripped the circuit right away"
Doubt it. They claim to but they've failed a lot of practical tests for series arcs.
I wanna bastardize this phrase. "Loose wires sink ships", "loose lips sink fires", I dunno. I'm not finding a creative funny enough one. Thank you a ton for this demonstration of loose wiring arcing. It's videos like these and the short circuited lithium 18650 videos that really make things real to some.
Great video that shows the importance of correctly making connections.
As soon as a single puff of smoke came out of that box this video was completely justified. Many boxes would be so crammed with wires it would have immediately began melting other wires once the marret was gone.
Did you get your morning bagel?
dmc16336 this was my first question as well.my next question was how the flame burnt out or if it would have burnt out at all
Nope, but thanks for asking. Had to stop at Tim Horton's on the way to work. LOL
For starters, you must have a 20amp breaker to allow a hairdryer and toaster running together. Most breakers are 15 Amps - so we are already in an unusual situation. It's extremely rare for modern homes (in Canada) to be built with wood, instead they use gypsum boards and metal studs. The amount of saw dust (nice to see you put it in later) in your box would be inconceivable. In a rare wood home construction given the timing an electrician comes in to connect the wiring (after the wood work is done) and that the electric box is generally enclosed. He (or she) should be bright enough to wipe out any dust (especially saw dust) if it happens to be visible in the box. Lastly and most importantly your video has just shown that even after a series of almost impossible events, the flame goes no where other than the box.
I'll give the video creator the benefit of the doubt and assume he didn't have the drier on high setting to give a current pull of 14A just under the trip setting. As for construction, in Ontario at least, houses are still built using wood studs, though gypsum drywall has been a standard for at least 45 years or more. Hot connections can still cause fires. They discovered that during the brief period that they installed aluminum wiring. Here's a link of new construction with the studs exposed under unexpected circumstance. www.niagarathisweek.com/news-story/8373625-winds-knock-down-niagara-falls-homes-under-construction/
You seem to forget that here in Canada, there are more DIY people doing their own electrical with no experience in electrical, so this type of horrible wiring is common. Just because the fire didn't go any further in THIS situation does not mean that this type of bad wiring would not cause a fire in many homes. Drive anywhere were new homes are being build and all I see is wood studs used.
chud67bbc Huh? Did I not acknowledge that you can have wood studs but it is rare? As for DIY - hey I'm talking about the video case example. I think the lesson here is - use a steel case for your wire connections (especially if you have wood saw dust all over the place).
Niagara Mike really? Uhmm I believe it's against city code in Toronto - but older places have them for sure.
Could just be an FPE Breaker ;)
About 2 years ago when I worked for Palmer Foods in the frozen food section this is what started a fire the fire was burning inside the freezer and in area of which no one could see when you started smelling smoke but we couldn't figure out where it was coming from due to the ventilation system later we found out that there had been an electrical fault and the exact way that you demonstrated inside the freezer motor housing what's completely inaccessible.
I live at apartments in San Antonio Texas 2017. I just had a San Antonio Housing Authority inspection that passed the kitchen having no GFCI except for one electrical outlet. The rules in 2014 were that all the kitchen is to have GFCI. Also, in this apartment are several electrical outlets that are loose. The plugs fall out and the electrical testing device I just bought says the grounding is shaky or lacking on several. I had surge protectors on 2 of these and then I noticed lights crackling and blinking and then the surge protectors stopped working completely.
I wrote a work order July 5th for these problems, but so far no one has showed up to fix this. The apartment manager said that the SAHA would have to show up again to inspect again before these problems are fixed by the apartments. But when I call the several inspection managers at SAHA, they do not call me back. Today is the 15th.
Why do these apartments--Arriba apartments, 5200 Blanco--not fix these electrical issues whether or not SAHA inspects or not? Loose electrical outlets lead to fires, right?
So I immediately bought rental insurance for this apartment because I am thinking that all of these apartments are having these same problems.
Very helpful thank you. The commentary was also appreciated.
This video with the music and how slow it is literally made me so tired I fell asleep right on the spot the multiple hours. It’s some videos.
Hi Andrew
Nice Video to demonstrate the ignition by faulty circuit arrangement.
Just want to know that how the wires are connected to cause the fault and why the Circuit breaker doesnt function well
The conductors were not mechanically connected together. We usually do this by twisting them together.
The breaker did not trip because we never exceeded the maximum amount of current that the breaker is rated for. (15 amps).
This type of breaker requires a large short circuit current to trip because the trip mechanism is mechanical not electronic like those found in a AFCI breaker.
Never heard of a wirenut referred to as a marette. Learn something new everyday. Yes, it is a good idea to check and double check your connections..
Great video! How does this work on hardwired dishwasher with not breaker?
2 -- 15 amp devices in a 15 amp socket. You have a circuit breaker issue.
Stephen Wissel he said they were drawing 14A total
The current of the receptacle was maintained at 14 amps. If you review the video I mention that.
A 15 amp break can be loaded to 80% of it's rating when the loads are continuous. I set the video up to demonstrate that the circuit breaker will not trip if it in not overloaded.
You had said there's 14 amps of load in the video. Did you test this with an Arc fault breaker or just a standard breaker?
Does any body pay attention to anything they see, read or hear anymore? Re-watch the video, this time pay attention.
Stephen, I hope your not an electrician.
Scott, he clearly states it is NOT an Arc-fault breaker.
Pay attention!
Spaceman Rick Spaceman Rick He says only that he is using a standard breaker and that the circuit is wired according to the CEC. Where I'm from standard just implies it's single pole. I need to ask for a non-AFCI explicitly, hence me asking for clarification. No need to be rude.
Good thing I don't leave the toaster and the hair dryer running while I'm asleep.
The next video, how to replace all the burned wire? Same thing just happened to me when I plugged in the portable heater, fuse didn’t trip and smoke was coming out. So when the outlets are plugged in and in use or light switches are turned on, it’s a good habit to touch the surface and feel any excessive heat is being generated, I caught a few already in my older home, I guess my next project would be open up every single outlet and switch and inspect and redo all the connections if necessary. You’ll amazed what kind connection people used back then.
If you store kerosene and leaves inside your electrical boxes the way most folks do then you're in for a big surprise.
With those crude old fashioned twist connectors I'm not surprised, there's a reason those were banned in Portugal, we use wago type connectors only.
t0nito yes but those can melt to if the wire is not pushed in fully same with the nut if the wires arnt tight either way it’s called someone being lazy and a fire can start with either one doesn’t matter which connected is used
I had an outlet fire happen to me last winter back in 2016 in my bedroom at night. i was lucky i was still awake and my parents too. When the wires were loose and started the fire. Got it put out, turned the power off, then called the electrician, and got the wall cut open to replace the box and wires also had the electrician inspect the other outlets and none were loose but when it happened that was scary trust me .
kool demo, but i would replace that GE panel and breakers with Square "D" (LOL) cause i guarantee Square "D" would have tripped, plus that fire shouldn't go too far inside that metal box if it was fully enclosed with very little oxygen to fuel it, that's why all junctions are suppose to be done in a box, just another layer of protection. but on the other hand you still have to have it corrected.
Normal except for the smoke and the associated electrical smell that comes with a loose connection. Good vid
Does the wire nut itself cause arcing or does only the conductive wires cause the arcing?
Yes of course place sawdust in the box so if this happens the fire starts quicker and forces you out of your house faster, makes perfect logical sense
With all these comments, I have heard not one to mention the fact that we used to use ceramic wire nuts back in the day. ALWAYS twist your wires.
I couldn't even finish this video. Our house had caught fire in march of 2017 and it had happened while everyone was asleep. Cause was chalked up to the wood stove, but after going through everything it could of been one of several things. Electrical being one of the thoughts.
What's a marret ? Looked like a wire nut to me.
Farmer Dave - yeah like a horrible cheap as fuck wire nut.
It's a brand name turned colloquial term for wire nuts in Canada, kind of a nationalist thing as they were invented by a Canadian Scottsman by the name of William P. Marr in 1914 though only patented in the 30s
Farmer Dave 😆
It’s a wire nut brand
What is a butt connector, same thing?
I've placed a small amount of a component of TNT in the device box....
😂😂😂
First of all I noticed that you moved that wire I'm sure that is what caused the arcing. Anyways I use to live in a 30x65 Double Wide Mobile Home with Aluminum wiring and EVERY year I would go and check every single outlet and light ceiling fan and light fixture because I was terrified to electrical fires.
Yes I did open up the connection to show how a loose wire can cause excessive heating
people claim these wire nuts never come lose.. bs they do.. i have a 30 year old house, i replaced all the recetables and light fixtures and light switchs in.. because i dont like yellow ones and old light fixtures.. and id say 30% of the wire nuts were extremely loose.. in my barn thats 60 years old, the wire nuts in the receptacles werent even tight anymore icould pull them off basically.. another issue with wire nuts.. is some people dont twist them enough.. you should turn them entire the wire start to twist.. or until its too hard to twist anymore.. then you need to pull each wire to be sure and also look inside. also gatta be careful cutting insulation off.. or if wires were bent too much. twisting them in nuts can break the wires at the cut.. seen that dozens of time
Yeah I just have the hairdryer plugged next to a toaster and drying my hair while making bagels while sleeping.
Great video! 👍🏻This happened to me. Discovered it today on wiring to a wall thermostat while painting. Once this situation occurs, do I need to replace the line wire that overheated, meaning behind the junction box… and if so, from where… the previous box or service panel, one floor below? 🤷🏻♂️P.S.: Happy Holidays! Hope you’ve been well the past 7 years! 😉
A closed device box would have contained and snuffed a fire due to lack of O2 in the box... One of the main purposes of enclosing connections. This guy has an open box, doesn't get the fire he wants, and adds sawdust to get a little flame effect.
It would have been nice to see a clamp on amp meter to see loading while the fire condition was happening.
The two (or more) wires should have been twisted together 3-4 turns, trimmed and THEN had the wire nut put on it. Makes a super good connection that won't get loose - especially with a wire nut on it. Only maroons simply jam them in and twist ... or as shown here, lightly insert them into the wire nut without twisting. Arc Fault breakers are great, but cost 3-4 times what a standard breaker costs. On new work, they are required, but when replacing a faulty, old, QO or similar breaker, many folks can't justify the expense. Plus, if you are unable to smell the horrible stink of that smoke, and/or can't see it billowing out of the box, there's something wrong with you! I suppose this scenario could occur over night when running a heater. Even if a plastic face plate is used, in a sealed box, all of the O2 will get used up pretty quick. Do the test over with a sealed box please, and show us the result. Who would leave sawdust in an electrical box anyway?!
I’m a little late, but I discovered the very same today (12/26/23) behind one of my wall thermostats. 🤷🏻♂️
In 2016 did Canada not require ground fault protected plugs on hairdryers?
In Canada we are required now to use arc fault breakers on all receptacles. Perhaps excluding the vacuum or washer plug.
That is correct. This circuit was not AFCI protected because this installation was completed before that Code became required.
Soon as he said Canadian electrical code I knew it would have an issue.
Care to explain?
@@mr.3phase228 Canadian fires burn hotter.
@@Arcanus31 Aussie fires burn the hottest tho
@@mr.3phase228 hmn good point. But still the man said Canadian code. Had he said Aussie code thaaaaan...
Won't sleep again tonight. Damn it!
that`s why in europe we use 2 things that are better than usa-canada higher voltage equal less amps and second we use screw clamp type to join wires
That is why you twist your wires together before wire nutting them! Simply twisting a wire but on without twisting the wires together is asking for a problem.
Agree!!
interesting video. At 2:30ish ..when you were talking the LOAD was still on? thank you
Plot twist this is a video of how to boil water with a loose wire!!!
Those sure are some sexy upside down 1-hole straps .....
If the saw dust does not ignite, can I add a bit of alcohol to the whole thing and light it with a match? I think this would present a realistic scenario as I often have alcohol in my bathroom cupboard.
As a German, this looks like a horror film. Thank God we have dual training, DIN and TÜV. Thank you.
VDE ftw
For? This is a typical metal electrical box, or terminal box as you will, with convenient knock outs. I prefer it better than your typical German plastic boxes that break apart the moment I bump into it with falling wires everywhere that never gets fixed ever again (Too many houses I've been in Germany with situations like that). TUV isn't going to prevent any of this as they're just a certification lab. Meanwhile, these metal boxes are all over the place and outlasting the owners.
The only difference between this box and a typical terminal box in Germany, it looks prettier with a wago terminal connector. Doesn't look pretty after I bump into it with me knee however.
If YOU are overwhelmed with typical distributor or bifurcation doses in Germany, then you should really stick to the us-American handicraft solution for suicidal persons. But it's not our junction boxes :)
+/dev/random yea lets conveniently forget that one is conductive and the other is not. totally not the biggest risk factor with electrical installations.
The idiot said: that’s what grounds are for you can’t do that with a plastic box a metal box is safer when grounded
Can you do this same video with wagos and see if they do a better job
And this is why you twist the wires *before* screwing on the wire nut.
Absolutely. All good electricians will do that. Unfortunately some homeowners do not.
Yes absolutely agree!!
That's actually the wrong way to do it. It specifically says not to do that on the box.
The wire nut makes the twist, I have seen this when I do it, it is meant to tighten both connections; there is a metal cone inside that also shields both connections.
Sean Place, I'm a 01 electrician in the U.S. I never pre-twist just turn the nut enough and it will do the same. I guess some people have weak wrist.
Absolutely loose connections (not loose wires, the wire isn't a wire if its loose...) can cause a fire. It is pretty impressive how bad that arc gets without tripping the breaker...instead of adding crap to the scenario for effect, lets see how it would play out if sealed up, would we see smoke? Would it be obvious at all?
AUS and NZL are standard 10A per circuit breaker fuse is better than sorry. However that wire cable for building should be standard rules. Otherwise illegal, you will lose and burn a house !
WizardmasterNZ usually when it happens people rushed and this same is can happen with a wago connector if it’s lose at least the box is metal and grounded unlike those cheap plastic ones
IDEAL PUSH CONNECTORS.............I prefer to use them instead of wire nuts. I never did like wire nuts. In House Construction, AFCI circuits would be installed mainly in sleeping quarters (bedrooms). Places in your home where a Toaster and Hair Dryer are more likely to be used, would be protected with a GFCI circuit. Perhaps the best thing for the industry to do, in terms of people safety, is to develop a device (Circuit Breaker) that is able to detect Over Current, Ground Fault, and Arc Faults, a 3-in-1 protective device.
Griff Mustard yes but usually no one has time to push the wires in fully on an install job it’s rush and go which can make the connection loose and start a fire
Looks to me like the junction box did its job nicely.
Good illustration. I don't really get why people have an issue with the saw dust. It's not like this was a bet and you cheated. You clearly demonstrated that poorly connected wires can cause a fire inside an electrical box.
Would love to see this done with a metal box and a plastic box - I hate plastic boxes, for some reason they just scream "fire hazard" at me, because, in theory, they aren't as capable as metal boxes when it comes to containing a small fire from a faulty connection as you demonstrated here!
Actually the boxes must be made of a flame-retardant material, and special plastic could fulfill this. This type of plastic is self-extinguishing. This is standard in Germany for decades. The last metal boxes I've seen here were installed in an early 1950s electric installation. On the outside they were plated with lead to prevent corrosion (plaster is corrosive) and they were coated with tar on the inside for electric insulation.
But the best thing is to ensure that all connections are ok and you don't have any lose connections in your installation. Precaution is always the best thing.
And 90°C is really bad, the PVC insulation of the wires is beginning to degrade at 70°C. The effects are accumulating. Every time the conductor temperature is rising above 70°C the insulation is degrading more and more until it's totally destroyed.
Marcel Germann I couldn't imagine having to deal with those boxes! tar? what a messy situation.
It's looking this way, a pic of a junction box:
www.bauexpertenforum.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=55966&d=1456821908
Sometimes dried tar, sometimes paper impregnated with tar. You may be certain to get black fingers if you work on them. During the 1960s these boxes were replaced by boxes made of plastic.
It's a mix of old and new cables on the pic. The cable with brown, blue and green/yellow is new (past 2006), the other wires are from 1950s and 60s. The newer cable is NYM-type (N=normalised, Y=PVC-insulation, M= sheathing). The old installation was made with single wires in conduits. The conduits were made of steel sheet and insulated with tar impregnated paper on the inside. The outside was lead-coated to prevent corrosion, plaster is corrosive.
The installation itself is from the 1950s or earlier. The connectors are old style Wago-connectors which are in use since the 1980s here.
How do you test for an orc in a plug
This shouldn't even be a concern. User proper voltages (230/400V), proper terminals and there is no problems ! Never seen properly made junction box catch on fire (even on older than 10 yr)
Every time I turned on the microwave the light was flickering and the fuse in the plug blew..I thought it was a faulty light bulb. Ordered a new one for £16 changed it but same problem 😮 I decided to open the socket and found a loose cable , screwed it tight and problem solved . How can the wire get lose after years ?? Just noticed that my Coffee grinder (which was on the same socket) doesn't work anymore. Not only i wasted £16 on a new bulb the loose wire also blew up my Coffee grinder £50
To get heat like that you need sustained high impedance. It's not likely caused by a simple loose wire. What else was that marret covering?
When he showed the temperature on the device and it said 91 I was like," Oh 91 Fahrenheit? That's not TOO horrible-" then he said Celsius and I just about lost my jaw when it dropped to the core of the Earth. Getting that high in temp in mere minutes is honestly horrifying
This is why you should use wago lever nuts instead of Wirenuts.
so many trolling and joking comments but this is seriously dangerous stuff. And to people saying -" i don't sleep with my toaster and hair drier on" ever left your TV on ? or left multiple devices charging? :P there's plenty of electronics you leave plugged in and working without thinking about it
People are complaining of the sawdust when there's smoke and smoldering plastic inside the case. The sawdust is not the issue here.
You got me concerned, but I couldn't quite understand how the wires were improperly split, could you please elaborate on that? I live in Brazil and our connections usually don't have that blue plastic gasket around the junctions, so I couldn't quite translate your video to my regional conditions. It did, however, get me worried.
Horacio Filho
When splicing wires we strip back the insulation on the wires and twist the copper together. That way they are a complete electrical circuit and they are also mechanically tight.
This video shows what happens when the wires are not twisted together.
I'm not sure, so you placed some sawdust in the wire-nut. The heat from in the box didn't cause the wires or anything to catch on fire. Now what if the box was closed up so heat can build up. I suspect this happens more than often and they simply call an electrician afterwards (not noticing smoke) to find the issue and fix it.
So wire splices with untaped wire nuts inside a metal socket box are normal in the Canadian electrical code? I don't know many electricians that would do things like that.. Maybe some DIYers or maintenance man but not a real electrician..
So long as you don't have a good supply of saw dust, you are fine.
I am using 150 watts on four 1875 watt outlets in one room. That is a total of 600 watts. should I expect flashing and crackling LED bulbs on 2 of these outlets which were hooked up to new surge protectors? Or 4 incandescent bulbs in the bathroom to flash and then not work? Could be the switch hooked up to these outlets. Then these 2 outlets stop working, and show to my circuit tester open neutral. And then an outlet in the living room stops working all of this at the same time?
The owners to the apartments I live at say it is my fault that the outlets stopped working and the lights flashed and blinked. These owners did not tell me that these apartments were built in the 1974s with a good chance to have aluminum wiring. They did not tell me that there are loose outlets in all the apartments that could mean loose wires, loose screws or loose blades. Aren't the owners at fault completely if there is a fire at all? Am I not supposed to expect 1875 watts at each outlet as a part of my all bills paid rent lease?
I just unplugged all the wires from loose outlets in my apartment. Because I had to read about loose outlets on my own, I read that there is an excellent chance that using an appliance at a loose outlet can immediately start a small lightning bolt/arc to shoot through the walls.
Suppose the junction was plastered. Suppose there is fuel ie. sawdust or plastic. Where does the fire gets the oxygen ? Seems far fetced although having an AFCI installed gives you piece of mind.
If your "piece of mind" is false trips on a regular basis.
is a bad outlet a fire risk if not using it?
Could be, if it comes between the fusebox and a socket you are using, depending on your wiring configuration.
LOL! I just fixed my reverse polarity outlet. Totally legal to do it as 13.
Are you 13.
I was going to say that usually how a lot of electricians get their start either by being electrocuted or starting to tinker at a young age.
Ive has a few power points go in my rental house in the last couple of years... melting the switch’s etc on. The house is maybe 4 years old. Plus my ceiling fans are just really weird too... just shows how crap some sparkies (Aussie slang for electrician)...
I messed with little motors and little wires since I was a baby. My brain won't let my hands not twist the everloving hell out of any wires and as a result my wrists stink to this day. I see what lazy gets.
How could they both be in a wire nut and not touching. Also why did it require you to do high amperage devices? Based off of my research arcing conditions are scaled based on voltage not amperage.
Thanks Andrew. Seeing is believing.
It could be happening in your walls as your watching this but the smell wouldn’t be easily ignored unless u weren’t home or it happened in another room
Afci look like they will be a good safety CB some day, but this is not that day. Far to many false trips. An open box and saw dust!?!? What happens in a closed box without a combustible?
My daughter mentioned that it happened when she turned on the light switch in her dorm restroom. The spark almost burn her face had she not move fast enough. It also flamed after smoking. What can she do while waiting for an electrician to come check in two days time?
Happend to me when i used my portabe car heater in an outside outlet. One of the electrical plug breaked of in the outlet when the heater was on. And caused a fire. It took 7 seconds for the circuit breaker to cut the electricity from when the fire started.