This is very helpful, but I think I'm going to have to watch it about six times because it's early in my brain has not unfogged yet.🤣 Thank you very much for taking the time to make it!
@@the_bread_code Seeing it broken down and the "why" helps me bake better bread. I think a lot of people mistake the the words "dairy notes" with a mild flavor. This is likely where some confusion occurs. Of course, sour cream, yogurt, and quark are all a bit sour. So there's that. 🤔
@@simplybeautifulsourdough8920 so the dairy notes of the liquid starter can be perceived as less sour. The acetic acid has a very strong flavor to it. Lactic acid is more mild.
I moved from Canada to Spain last May and brought my starter and recipes with me. Sadly my starter died… RIP. For the last 10 months, my attempts at bread have ended up as pancakes. Flour? Water? Temperature? Relative Humidity? Sunburn? I experimented with all to no success. However after creating a new starter with Spanish microbes and trying a stiff starter, I had my first success! After downloading (and supporting ) your book and following your great channel, I’ve learned a few things: 1) I am spoiled coming from Canada with easily accesible, high gluten flours that can withstand the bacteria of a regular starter. 2) I was using bottled water but switched to tap water. Water in the Valencia region is extremely hard. So it probably raised the pH. 3) As you indicated, the stiff starter made a great open crumb even with the local Harina de Fuersa (bread flour). However there was no tangy flavour supporting your lesson. 4) Spanish microbes, like all things here, have a different rhythm of life. It is me that needs to adapt, not my starter! My goal now is to slowly adjust the starter to find a good balance. Thanks for all of your work. It is appreciated!
love your videos. IM A TOTAL newbie. I am on day 4 of my very first starter and my head is going to explode with all the info and steps. crossing my fingers that I will have my first bread with in the week. thank you for all your explanations
I converted a regular starter to stiff about a month ago and I find it is much easier to manage. I skipped the liquid starter step and went directly from a rye regular to white bread flour stiff. The bread doesn’t taste sour to me at all. It makes great bread. I took a piece with my on vacation in my checked luggage on an airplane. That evening I mixed a dough using my friends American AP flour that afternoon. Continued the bulk fermentation in the fridge over night and baked a beautiful bread the next evening for dinner. The stiff starter is so much more forgiving and easier to work with, except for the need to knead it. Thank you Hendrik I have learned a tremendous amount from you on my year long sourdough journey. PS. I have some sourdough pizza cold fermenting right now after feeding that starter one more time with the same unknown AP flour.
Your channel is amazing. I got really serious about sourdough a year and a half ago, but had a really hard time and gave up after a while. Your channel is giving me the confidence to try again. Thank you.
Wonderfull video. Very educative. I have used stiff starter in order to have more controlable fermentation acc. to your videos. A couple of weeks ago i ve started having inconsistent results and in one case i had complete degradation of the dough. We have 35 degrees in Athens this period and i assumed that this was due to elevated temperatures boosting lactic acid formation. Searching further, i have realised that feeding just before baking is one very efficient way to reduce acidity. Although at cooler periods i have using stiff starter, 1 week old, directly from fridge without any problem at all, that was not the case in summer period where fermentation temperatures rise kicking a boost in lactic acid formation. What would be intresting is to explore alternatives to control acidity by using buffers like baking soda. Sourdough is definately a challenging journey 😂 what makes it so wonderfull. Happy baking
I couldn’t find a suggestion category in discord. But i was browsing through the fails/success and saw some beautiful scoring and was thinking it would be super cool if there was a section for decorative scoring where we could post our scores or discuss tips on how to score better. Just got on the discord channel tho. It is such a great community, i appreciate you making a positive constructive outlet for bakers around the world to discuss and share our adventures. As always thank you Hendrik!
I just named my first sourdough starter “Hendrik” 😁 Thank you for sharing all your experience with us!!! He is five weeks old now .🎉. Thank you Hendrik!
Great video as usual. I for me, the takeaway is to make liquid to regular to stiff to get the sweet notes. That said, my starter has been loving California coolness! New bread making experience for me. But with the solid foundation that you and Kristin provided, I can adapt and make great bread.
Wow. This is superb. Once you get the mechanics of properties, you can play around however you like, really. If you don't get the principles, though, you are bound to stick to recipes and have no room ... for nothing really. Super helpful, Cheap German.
Thank you for these instructions and guidelines, they are very helpful. I surely do appreciate your time and effort in your videos. Keep up with good work dude.
Thank you so much! This finally shed some light on the mystery why sometimes my bread is quite sour (we love it!) and why at other times I just cannot figure out why it ends up being so different. I guess it's due to my non-measure approach...I just mix it together without a lot of fuzz 😉 - THANK YOU!!
Guten Tag. After studying what you wrote about liquified starter and the post of the young woman researcher who tested the yeasts and bacteria prevalent in their lab. Since I make sourkraut, vinegar and yogurt I suspected that I had too much vinegar mixed in to my starter and it just didn’t work. Also, your information on using unbleached flour to routinely feed the starter was a great eye opener. My new starter is active and I’m baking with it today. Oh, also keeping a separate small jar to see the rise is genius. I use it for my yeast bakes too. No more under or overproofing. Happy New Year! Gutes Backen und Herzlicher Dank !
This is very helpful. Yes, the strong gluten flour, in fact many good flour are very expensive in Asia, I've been trying to make a nice bread for over two years but never taste or look the same unless I'm using instant yeast. Until last month that I bought the French flour what is WAY more expensive, but the results is very satisfying. Now I'm trying many different bags of local flour to see which one have better gluten texture and this chart help me to understand why my dough is always sticky or very sour, some even taste like beer.
I live in SE Asia and my starter is super active by day 3 because of the warm climate. Always try to get the highest protein in flour. Perhaps try mixing in All Purpose flour? It helps to lessen the sourness and give bread a more mellow flavour but still a decent rise.
@@maboo736 thank you. It took me a while to try many different flour, and I noticed, the one that work better is more expensive. But at least I didn't waste the flour and times. And I'm also very happy.
OMG, before you made this video I did the same with the starters: regular, to liquid and now to stiff, and everybody says my bread is awesome! Thank you for all your info. I love your videos.
@@afonsoribeiro1002 I kept it liquid for about a month. Once the flavor had changed for good I changed it to stiff. I was looking for a mild flavor that would produce a very fluffy bread. Achieved.
Thanks for the terrific breakdown! Before I saw your vid here, I was wrapping my head around A French dude who made a school for only natural levain bread. He was going deep into PH using a ph/thermometer to surveil dough. Interesting that we can observe bacterial or yeast activity to gain info on dough. I love this! Thanks again!
I made a starter dough last night and it was already done in the morning! That’s extremely rare, I woke up and it was bubbly and over spilling, I did the float test and it was ready, I made a sourdough bread and it was great
Dude you are simply great! In Egypt we don't have high protein flours or bread flours AT ALL. My SD never has an open crumb. I just started a stiff starter. Can't wait to see how it turns out. Danke!!!
Nice explanation. One thing that would be interesting to overlap is the seed quantity- essentially the ratio of leftover to new flour amount combined with different water amounts. In my case I’m realizing that by maintaining the regular starter method for a few days I almost completely lose the acidity. I’m guessing the yeast outcompetes the bacteria and then nearly vice versa. Maintaining the balance over time is tricky.
My starter is 3 parts bread flour, 1 part rye flour and 1 part whole wheat flour. I use distilled water instead of tap water as tap water contains Chlorine or Chloramines (Chlorine and Ammonia) which can hurt your yeast and bacteria. If you can't get distilled water (usually from your grocery or pharmacy) you can just leave tap water in an open container overnight to degas the water. The last thing I add as a little sugar to the mix to give the yeast and bacteria some extra food. I make a stiff paste in a mason jar and store it in the refrigerator. I feed it every week or so by removing half of the starter and adding flour, water and sugar in the same portions. When I want to make a loaf, the night before, I take about half a cup of my starter out and put in into another jar with half a cup of bread flour, a teaspoon of sugar and enough distilled water to make a thick paste. I leave the lid on loosely and put it on the counter overnight. By morning it has risen to about triple its size and is ready to be used in my bread.
I don't worry about using tap water, but if I'm in a purist mood I'll use filtered from the Zero filter. Life is amazingly good at continuing. The chlorine in most taps, and mine at least, isn't nearly concentrated enough to beat out the starter which was essentially pure culture at the time of drying. The chlorine didn't stand a chance 😂 That said, if I lived in Flint, Michigan I would probably go for bottled/distilled 😂😬
My first starter I made, would'n really start on day four, so I add two or three teaspoons of Stout Beer. Day five, it seems the starter liked beer, he starts to grow, and he gets a very nice flavor. After looking your video, I know now, it has to do more with the consistence too.
Now the big question is how to adjust your recipes for stiff and liquid starters. Do you use the same recommended percentages for a starter? Also you have to take hydration into account. Thanks
Correct and great question. So for 500g of flour I'd be using 50g of liquid starter. I'd also treat the 50g like water. Your dough becomes more wet by applying it. Hope that makes sense.
Yes! Hydration of dough is overall hydration so you need to adjust for the type of starter. One way is to start with your overall gross weight of flour, say you make a batch of 1kg flour (for ease of maths as an example) 80% hydration means 800ml of water. Make your starter from these, so stiff, take 100gm flour and 50ml water from your over all, so you dough mx will be 150gm starter 900gm flour 750mp water This is a simplified way of what I do, I use a liquid starter so have to reduce the amount of water for the dough. I find it easiest to work out gross amounts and work back. For amount of starter I base it on 20% total flour weight if using a normal 1:1 ratio starter, so that works out as flour at 10% of flour for starter. So for stiff 10% flour means 100gm flour and 50ml of water, for liquid at 1:5 flour to water 100gm flour and 500ml water, which mean you only add 300ml for water in the above example for 80% hydration. (Liquid starter I start off half the amount the day before, then around 6-8hours before mixing dough add the second half to the starter and mix your dough when the starter is good and active) (1kg flour is probably an impractical measure, I just used it as a easier way to explain the ratios, I usual do batches of 830gm flour and 664ml water, of that 80gm flour is used in starter and correct ratio of water for which starter type, I bulk ferment then split into 2lafs for final proving and bake)
Further to the above, my mother starter is 1:1 I keep it in the fridge so it only needs feeding once every week to two weeks,) I add a spoon full of this mother starter to the starters I will bake with. This way I find most practical and you never have starter discards with this method
Thanks! I’m fairly new to sourdough. I was wondering why some people’s videos are showing a soft, wet starter versus what I have. I have a fairly thick starter. It is like “the blob” and it seems to work well for me. I have a very simple way of using it and I don’t have to work with the dough much. I just make regular soft sourdough because my oven and my home cannot tolerate the very hot oven. So I’ll do things a little differently and it’s working out.
I 'm totally new to sourdough, and I found already your you-tube channel very interesting. I watched and learned alot at this time! Not fully understand everything but it will come.... hopefully 😅🙈👌 so thank you, Hope to see much more new videos 🍀🌹💖
Your videos are amazing! Mind blowing detail! Would you do a video on transferring from regular, to wet to stiff starters? (if already done, I apologies, still getting through the back log of vids!) thank you.
Your videos are really so helpful, thanks for that. Okay, I'm almost there. After doing research, more clarity is starting to come into my head. I still have one question. Your ideal starter is when you go from a regular, to liquid, to a stiff starter. But how long do you ferment the liquid starter (with de regular starter out of the fridge) for before switching to a stiff starter?
I am use regular starter then. I keep my starter in the fridge and I feed it the evening before I bake. I take it out the morning of to let it proof. I add the starter to the bread flour and water mix and let that proof. I then add freshly milled rye and hydrated toasted seeds, mix and let it proof again. The results go into bread pans to rise in the fridge before baking. I am getting good rise and sour flavor. I've used the same steps for whole wheat, but I have become quite partial to seeded rye sour dough bread.
Vielen Dank! Einen konkreten Zeitplan hätte ich mir noch gewünscht. Also: nach wie vielen Fütterungen wandle ich den normalen Starter in den Flüssigen um und wann in den festen?
Hendrik, first of all, I love you 😍, watched all your videos and I love your humor, explanations and everything about your channel. I have a very mature, active and healthy starter I feed once in a while with organic rye, I took a little bit of it to make another starter with the aim to get a liquid starter, followed your formula but my starter ended up as water on top and starter at the bottom, is it a gradual process? Did I do something wrong? Thanks a lot 🙏🏻
Amazing simple lecture for starter , I have a request , do you have and good description for quantities of starter for my bakery , we are in Middle East using factory yeast and I decide to change , thank you
You are a genius but unfortunately most people like me just can’t comprehend starting with regular starter,converting to a liquid starter then back to regular starter but maintaining the taste of the liquid starter ,so why change your starters and the lastly but always use the stiff starter even though the liquid will give you more sour notes only if you ferment longer. I know you are amazing and for scientific bakers the info is used but just regular home bakers can’t compute all this information so I feel very sad I still do not know any more about just how to bake a great loafof bread😞 I don’t have any idea what to do. But I do love you and appreciate you and all your research.
The most interresting and informative video yet. Now how do I use this information to my advantage? I have been using a 1:1 when feeding my starter, and after a while it started smelling like tutti-frutti. A mixture of apples and pears, maybe with a hint of apricot and banana. You said yours smell like dairy? does that mean cheese and sour-cream? I think I prefer tutti-frutti over that. The breads don't smell of tutti-frutti though, but have a very pleasant taste. I may try to convert to stiff, and jump over the fluid version, as no matter what, I can't find flour that behaves like the non-stick dough you manage to create. I'll try the fluid version for kicks and grins, but my flour quality dictates baking that version in a bread baking pan... even the regular 1:1 version becomes very soft, and doesn't create as much ovenspring as yours do.
Thank you so much! I just bought your ebook for Kindle! I was hoping to find some easy to reference recipes using your tips but could not. I still love the book but do have this question-if using the stiff starter, do I have to make any adjustments to the rest of a recipe to account for the lower hydration of the starter?
I love your bread engineering and science, Hendrik. I live in hot and humid Singapore, where I experience humidity as high as 84% and temperatures as high as 35C. Should I follow your recipe but reduce the timing by 1/3 because the starter should be more active and energetic? I also have a fermentation fridge where the temperature is between 18C and 20C. How should I tweak your recipes for hot and humid Singapore? By the way, I am learning sourdough bread for an Austrian friend who will bunk at my place for 4 months...
This was interesting, but I remember when you interviewed the gentleman from the sourdough library, he said that the stiff starter produced more of the sour flavor. The most that I got from this was that a stiff starter favored the yeast for rise.
How do I remember all this ?? 😅 great video though, I love this channel! This is my main bread channel I go to when I need some help with my bread baking.
I have just separated my starter in 2, to test the liquid version. I think it is also becoming acid because I keep to much of it when I refresh, I recently discovered that only a teaspoon is enough . Let's see how this change will affect taste
Thanks a lot for the very useful video. However, i'm confused by one point. The liquid starter has more dairy flavor, but at the same time has higher acidity? I thought that a higher acidity will lead to a vinegary note (sour) rather than a dairy note...am i missing something?
Great video. Thought I'd try a liquid starter, liking the sound of the flavour. Normally feeding my starter 1:5:5, with Dark rye, I et a healthy rise of the starter, but not furious as some starters seem to be. I took 10gms of my normal starter, added 50gms dark rye flour, and making a mistake, added only 100gms water, achieving a 1:5:10. with a temperature of 28C...A hot and balmy evening in Australia! After 6hrs, the starter is bursting out of the Weck, the entire walls and domed top is dotted with bubbles, and disrupting the starter show a very substantial network. The starter is not that liquid as to a runny consistency and tastes fruity with a slight taste of cheese acid, or probably lactic acid rather than ethanoic acid. I've never achieved such a result. I'm going to discard and feed the same ratios again tonight and bake with 14% flour tomorrow. Thanks for the tip, even if I got it wrong!
Great 👍🏼 video. 😮. There are so many RUclips tutorials that use stiff starter & some liquid, it’s confusing because you don’t know the percentage of protein the flour is. Hummm🤔🤷♀️👍🏼❤️👍🏼
I find that the liquid starter takes longer, even significantly longer, to rise a loaf; so is the more sour flavor coming from the starter or from the longer fermentation? If I use a small amount of regular (or even stiff) starter so that they all ferment for the same amount of time, will the flavor be the same? Also, I find that my liquid starter has a very strong smell, not even close to dairy. It would be great to have a way to test what kind of acid you get in a liquid starter, not just in theory, but by doing some chemical analysis in a lab to validate if you're really getting acetic or lactic acid. Thanks!
Thank you for this video. I starten my sourstarter 1 of februari. Yesterday I mixed a thick starter, but it is very slow. The 1-5-5 rices to more then double in 8 hours ,.. but the thick one took about 24 hours to reach double size and are still ricing. What can you tell/read out about that ?
I'm curious about something: Has anyone tried using a precise but smaller mix of two starter types (stiff AND liquid) in their bread batch? So, less of each type but still totaling the overall "standard" amount of starter. Not sure how that might work -- but wondering if that would result in a more pronounced sour flavor (from liquid starter) but with the fluffy attributes of a stiff starter. Thoughts??
I need help!!! I’m on day two of my starter first time doing it. 1 cup rye flour 1 cup water. after 24 hrs i discarded half and added 1c of flour n water again. Now 12 hrs later it’s risen out of the container. Is that good or bad? And is it ok I discarded some at that point, it was overflowing? The dough is super stretchy too
I have been making the regular starter for 5 days but day six I didn’t feed it and now it is day seven I put it in the fridge can I still feed it and use it or not?
I really like your conclusions. To me is a question of Oxygen. Anerobic (alcohol) or Anerobic (Vinegar) and all in a High Protein (more than 12%) or low Protein (Less than 10%). So I always ask my self, how much vinegar (acidity) am I making.
Hallo, ich hab schon vor ein paar Wochen mit einem normales Starter angefangen. Jetzt dass ich ein flüssiges und evtl. ein dickes Starter futtern will, frage ich mich über die Fütternratio für beide. Würden Sie ein 1:2:10 für flüssig enpfehlen also praktisch 25% von dem Weizenanteil als Starter?
I hope you can help me. I watched your video twice and not grasping how to get a more sour loaf. I am using a regular starter (1:1:1) that is about a year old. I recently started feeding it every two weeks with 2/3 rye to 1/3 bread flour. I cannot get a sour flavor. Please tell me, in layman's terms, how to get a more sour sourdough. Thanks so much in advance.
Thank you Hendrick, very interesting. I was thinking that the sourness in the actual bread would then depend on the length of fermentation rather than the pH of the starter. Isn't the actual bread dough just like a new, bigger starter?
Life trips me out sometimes, and I stopped believing in "coincidence" long ago. As I read his response to the original comment I hear thr video say regardless of the starter "the longer you let the loaf ferment, the more the acidity will build up" 😂
When mixing starters to get the properties of all three, this would be like a three day prep to bake - normal to liquid, to normal, to stiff? Otherwise if you leave it in one form eventually the ratio would start to return to be the dominant trait of the three as time passed?
What kind of flour do you use for your stiff starter? When I use rye flour there is nearly no size increase and no bubbles (of course due to the lack of gluten). Is Whole grain spelt working?
I have been using 100% whole grain spelt for my starter, for a few days I have been turning it into a stiff starter and it is working great, I fed it about 9 hours ago and it has almost tripled in size since then. So yes, it should work! :)
Thanks for this very informative video. If you had to produce a naturally fermented bread that had a pH of 5.0 or higher, how would you do that? It sounds contrary to what sourdough is, so I wonder if it can be done.
Im decades away from even humbly considering myself knowledgable on sourdough, but my gut logic says you could get a super fermented starter going, then when it's time to make the bread, make it a super hydrated loaf (but prepare for those unique difficulties) so the starter allows it to ferment quickly enough for your needs, but the hyper saturation with the water balances out the pH
What do you consider a high amount of gluten. I use mainly AP flour (usually with some whole flour). Our AP is typically ~12%. Also, I use a regular starter. Can we simply use THIS starter but when we feed prior to baking, use different ratios starter:H2O:four to achieve different flavour notes?
Yeah I've chosen bread flour since its ideal, but I've noticed even from thr same brand, the difference is usually max 2%. Like 11.2% for AP, 12.5% for bread. I think as humans we minimize things when it comes to numbers on paper, but I'd wager that every percent +/- makes a large difference when it comes to micro flora
Does the bacteria eat the protein or the acidity produced decreases the pH and when it reaches to a pH around 4 the protease enzymes befing to break down the protein
Awesome video! :) But some questions came up watching it, especially with the graph of vol. growth and pH over time: How do you explain that the pH-value of the starter with the 25°C is decreasing faster than the 21°C one? Doesn't it somehow contradict the rule of very mild starter feeding should be done at about 27°C while a lower temp is gonna lead to a more sour taste? The next question (And maybe already kind of an answer to the first one lol :D): Do you think it is correct to see the pH-Value as one and only factor that determines how sour it tastes? I very often heard and read that it is actually the ratio between lactic acid and acetic acid what is important for the taste. Commonly the ratio is between 3:1 and 4:1. A ratio near 3:1 leads to mild flavor, while an increasing amount of acetic acid vs. lactic acid leads to a more sour flavor. No smart-assery, just exchange of ideas between nerds :D
Great question! Please keep all the questions coming, it's good to have a healthy discussion. 1) Regarding the temperature. I could not find a relation between a colder temperature and a more sour taste. I have testing 21°C vs 25°C in an experiment last year. Maybe the difference is not big enough. 2) Correct! Lactic acid is actually more sour on the pH scale, but when tasting it, it seems milder. Quite an awesome thing if you ask me. So assuming you have 2 doughs, one with only lactic acid, one with acetic acid, both have the same pH in the end. Then the acetic dough will feel a lot more sour when tasting it!
@@the_bread_code 1) Yeah I agree, the difference may be not that big for one feeding only. I definitely encountered a difference when baking the recipe 'Mildes Weizensauerteigbrot' from plötzblog. The starter is refreshed 2-3 times at 27°C and also bulk fermentation is being done at this temp. That makes the bread tasting very mild already. When I used the rest of my starter for a 2nd bread some days later - same routine - I ended up with a bread with absolutely no sour flavor at all. It tasted really boring. I unfortunately have no pH meter but it would be really interesting to know what pH-value it had. 🤔 2) Awesome that makes totally sense to me. Thank you! 🙃
Hey, i have the Problem that my starter starte to smell like Aceton (nailpolish) & i heard tbat a liquid starter helps with that. Did you ever had this problem with your Stiff one? Liebe Grüße 😌
I have a question. My last sour dough starter which was a 50/50 became super sour and vinegary after a couple of months of use. So much so I ended up throwing it out. I have just started another one but wondering why did this change occur and it is possible to repair?
Interesting. I have a type of Lievito Madre born out of my 1:2 rye starter, it works well, but it's a bit on the sour side. So watching and reading your blog it seems I should dump it, create a 1:5 starter from the rye starter, and after it smells yogurty convert it to a 2:1 stiffy. Did I got that correctly? And what you use for the darker breads where you want the stronger note? The 1:5 starter?
I already change my regular starter to liquid starter for 3days,but it still taste vinegary and sour i feed it twice in a day for 5g starter 30g bread flour 150g water . Have any solve for my vinegary starter(it too sour break my sourdough gluten at all)
Was about to ask whether it could be a fun experiment to combine liquid and stiff starter in a dough to get a high yeast high lactic acid combo with less acetic acid bacteria, but I guess you somewhat achieve the same by turning your liquid starter into a stiff starter?
I shake it and then use it. If you want, you can make a sauce from the top liquid. It is excellent for hot sauces 🤗. Most of the microorganisms are close to the food, at the bottom.
This is very helpful, but I think I'm going to have to watch it about six times because it's early in my brain has not unfogged yet.🤣 Thank you very much for taking the time to make it!
My pleasure. Thanks for the idea Nancy 🤗
@@the_bread_code Seeing it broken down and the "why" helps me bake better bread. I think a lot of people mistake the the words "dairy notes" with a mild flavor. This is likely where some confusion occurs. Of course, sour cream, yogurt, and quark are all a bit sour. So there's that. 🤔
@@simplybeautifulsourdough8920 so the dairy notes of the liquid starter can be perceived as less sour. The acetic acid has a very strong flavor to it. Lactic acid is more mild.
@@the_bread_code Ah! So the dairy notes are an additional level of flavor, in addition to the sour?
@@simplybeautifulsourdough8920 Yes. A different kind of sour. Not so strong, more mild.
Thank you, Professor. I feel as if I am sitting in a lecture hall in a university of bread. I learned so much from your channel.😃
Possibly one of the sweetest guys - and smartest - on the internet.
This is probably the most helpful thing I have read about flavor influence! Thank you!
I moved from Canada to Spain last May and brought my starter and recipes with me. Sadly my starter died… RIP. For the last 10 months, my attempts at bread have ended up as pancakes. Flour? Water? Temperature? Relative Humidity? Sunburn? I experimented with all to no success.
However after creating a new starter with Spanish microbes and trying a stiff starter, I had my first success!
After downloading (and supporting ) your book and following your great channel, I’ve learned a few things:
1) I am spoiled coming from Canada with easily accesible, high gluten flours that can withstand the bacteria of a regular starter.
2) I was using bottled water but switched to tap water. Water in the Valencia region is extremely hard. So it probably raised the pH.
3) As you indicated, the stiff starter made a great open crumb even with the local Harina de Fuersa (bread flour). However there was no tangy flavour supporting your lesson.
4) Spanish microbes, like all things here, have a different rhythm of life. It is me that needs to adapt, not my starter!
My goal now is to slowly adjust the starter to find a good balance.
Thanks for all of your work. It is appreciated!
love your videos. IM A TOTAL newbie. I am on day 4 of my very first starter and my head is going to explode with all the info and steps. crossing my fingers that I will have my first bread with in the week. thank you for all your explanations
I converted a regular starter to stiff about a month ago and I find it is much easier to manage. I skipped the liquid starter step and went directly from a rye regular to white bread flour stiff. The bread doesn’t taste sour to me at all. It makes great bread. I took a piece with my on vacation in my checked luggage on an airplane. That evening I mixed a dough using my friends American AP flour that afternoon. Continued the bulk fermentation in the fridge over night and baked a beautiful bread the next evening for dinner. The stiff starter is so much more forgiving and easier to work with, except for the need to knead it.
Thank you Hendrik I have learned a tremendous amount from you on my year long sourdough journey.
PS. I have some sourdough pizza cold fermenting right now after feeding that starter one more time with the same unknown AP flour.
Your channel is amazing. I got really serious about sourdough a year and a half ago, but had a really hard time and gave up after a while. Your channel is giving me the confidence to try again. Thank you.
Sourdough literally ferments itself whether you stress or not
Outstanding! Content on sourdough starter is something I have never heard elsewhere before. Thanks from Australia.
Wonderfull video. Very educative. I have used stiff starter in order to have more controlable fermentation acc. to your videos. A couple of weeks ago i ve started having inconsistent results and in one case i had complete degradation of the dough. We have 35 degrees in Athens this period and i assumed that this was due to elevated temperatures boosting lactic acid formation. Searching further, i have realised that feeding just before baking is one very efficient way to reduce acidity. Although at cooler periods i have using stiff starter, 1 week old, directly from fridge without any problem at all, that was not the case in summer period where fermentation temperatures rise kicking a boost in lactic acid formation. What would be intresting is to explore alternatives to control acidity by using buffers like baking soda. Sourdough is definately a challenging journey 😂 what makes it so wonderfull. Happy baking
I couldn’t find a suggestion category in discord. But i was browsing through the fails/success and saw some beautiful scoring and was thinking it would be super cool if there was a section for decorative scoring where we could post our scores or discuss tips on how to score better. Just got on the discord channel tho. It is such a great community, i appreciate you making a positive constructive outlet for bakers around the world to discuss and share our adventures. As always thank you Hendrik!
Great idea. Thank you 🙏🏻
I just named my first sourdough starter “Hendrik” 😁 Thank you for sharing all your experience with us!!! He is five weeks old now .🎉. Thank you Hendrik!
Great video as usual. I for me, the takeaway is to make liquid to regular to stiff to get the sweet notes. That said, my starter has been loving California coolness! New bread making experience for me. But with the solid foundation that you and Kristin provided, I can adapt and make great bread.
Wow. This is superb. Once you get the mechanics of properties, you can play around however you like, really. If you don't get the principles, though, you are bound to stick to recipes and have no room ... for nothing really. Super helpful, Cheap German.
You are a bread wizard.
Very interesting video.
One question: for how many cycles would you recommend to go through to go from normal to fluid to stiff?
Thank you!
Thank you for these instructions and guidelines, they are very helpful. I surely do appreciate your time and effort in your videos. Keep up with good work dude.
Thank you so much! This finally shed some light on the mystery why sometimes my bread is quite sour (we love it!) and why at other times I just cannot figure out why it ends up being so different. I guess it's due to my non-measure approach...I just mix it together without a lot of fuzz 😉 - THANK YOU!!
You’re the breadmatician!
I very much like the approach on this!
Thanks for your effort!
Guten Tag. After studying what you wrote about liquified starter and the post of the young woman researcher who tested the yeasts and bacteria prevalent in their lab. Since I make sourkraut, vinegar and yogurt I suspected that I had too much vinegar mixed in to my starter and it just didn’t work. Also, your information on using unbleached flour to routinely feed the starter was a great eye opener. My new starter is active and I’m baking with it today. Oh, also keeping a separate small jar to see the rise is genius. I use it for my yeast bakes too. No more under or overproofing. Happy New Year! Gutes Backen und Herzlicher Dank !
This is very helpful. Yes, the strong gluten flour, in fact many good flour are very expensive in Asia, I've been trying to make a nice bread for over two years but never taste or look the same unless I'm using instant yeast. Until last month that I bought the French flour what is WAY more expensive, but the results is very satisfying. Now I'm trying many different bags of local flour to see which one have better gluten texture and this chart help me to understand why my dough is always sticky or very sour, some even taste like beer.
I live in SE Asia and my starter is super active by day 3 because of the warm climate. Always try to get the highest protein in flour. Perhaps try mixing in All Purpose flour? It helps to lessen the sourness and give bread a more mellow flavour but still a decent rise.
@@maboo736 thank you. It took me a while to try many different flour, and I noticed, the one that work better is more expensive. But at least I didn't waste the flour and times. And I'm also very happy.
OMG, before you made this video I did the same with the starters: regular, to liquid and now to stiff, and everybody says my bread is awesome! Thank you for all your info. I love your videos.
how many times did you feed your starter in the liquid form before changing it to a stiff starter??
@@afonsoribeiro1002 I kept it liquid for about a month. Once the flavor had changed for good I changed it to stiff. I was looking for a mild flavor that would produce a very fluffy bread. Achieved.
@@cacherivera Nice gonna give it a try
@@cacherivera And the stiff starter will keep this diary mild flavor for good? why? how is this possible if you've changed the hydration?
Thanks for the terrific breakdown! Before I saw your vid here, I was wrapping my head around A French dude who made a school for only natural levain bread. He was going deep into PH using a ph/thermometer to surveil dough. Interesting that we can observe bacterial or yeast activity to gain info on dough. I love this! Thanks again!
Thank you. That works too. Ph is individual and depends on your starter and flour composition 😎. If you are a true bread nerd it can be great 😂
I made a starter dough last night and it was already done in the morning! That’s extremely rare, I woke up and it was bubbly and over spilling, I did the float test and it was ready, I made a sourdough bread and it was great
Dude you are simply great! In Egypt we don't have high protein flours or bread flours AT ALL. My SD never has an open crumb. I just started a stiff starter. Can't wait to see how it turns out.
Danke!!!
How did it go?
This was amazing. Science helps breaks it all down. #chemistry. Well done.
Nice explanation. One thing that would be interesting to overlap is the seed quantity- essentially the ratio of leftover to new flour amount combined with different water amounts. In my case I’m realizing that by maintaining the regular starter method for a few days I almost completely lose the acidity. I’m guessing the yeast outcompetes the bacteria and then nearly vice versa. Maintaining the balance over time is tricky.
Thank you for making the flowcharts available.
On loaf number 7, not great, knew This was my problem. Learning what to ask is definite improvement!
My starter is 3 parts bread flour, 1 part rye flour and 1 part whole wheat flour. I use distilled water instead of tap water as tap water contains Chlorine or Chloramines (Chlorine and Ammonia) which can hurt your yeast and bacteria. If you can't get distilled water (usually from your grocery or pharmacy) you can just leave tap water in an open container overnight to degas the water. The last thing I add as a little sugar to the mix to give the yeast and bacteria some extra food. I make a stiff paste in a mason jar and store it in the refrigerator. I feed it every week or so by removing half of the starter and adding flour, water and sugar in the same portions. When I want to make a loaf, the night before, I take about half a cup of my starter out and put in into another jar with half a cup of bread flour, a teaspoon of sugar and enough distilled water to make a thick paste. I leave the lid on loosely and put it on the counter overnight. By morning it has risen to about triple its size and is ready to be used in my bread.
I don't worry about using tap water, but if I'm in a purist mood I'll use filtered from the Zero filter.
Life is amazingly good at continuing. The chlorine in most taps, and mine at least, isn't nearly concentrated enough to beat out the starter which was essentially pure culture at the time of drying. The chlorine didn't stand a chance 😂
That said, if I lived in Flint, Michigan I would probably go for bottled/distilled 😂😬
Vielen Dank fuer das Video. Aber waurm wird die fluessige Sauerteig saurer als das normale, wenn die fluessige das Wachsen von Accid bacteria hemmt?
My first starter I made, would'n really start on day four, so I add two or three teaspoons of Stout Beer. Day five, it seems the starter liked beer, he starts to grow, and he gets a very nice flavor. After looking your video, I know now, it has to do more with the consistence too.
The chart is very helpful. Would be interesting to have a similar chart for the liquid starter and the stiff starter.
Great idea 👍
Now the big question is how to adjust your recipes for stiff and liquid starters. Do you use the same recommended percentages for a starter? Also you have to take hydration into account. Thanks
Correct and great question. So for 500g of flour I'd be using 50g of liquid starter. I'd also treat the 50g like water. Your dough becomes more wet by applying it. Hope that makes sense.
Yes! Hydration of dough is overall hydration so you need to adjust for the type of starter.
One way is to start with your overall gross weight of flour, say you make a batch of 1kg flour (for ease of maths as an example) 80% hydration means 800ml of water.
Make your starter from these, so stiff, take 100gm flour and 50ml water from your over all, so you dough mx will be 150gm starter 900gm flour 750mp water
This is a simplified way of what I do, I use a liquid starter so have to reduce the amount of water for the dough. I find it easiest to work out gross amounts and work back.
For amount of starter I base it on 20% total flour weight if using a normal 1:1 ratio starter, so that works out as flour at 10% of flour for starter. So for stiff 10% flour means 100gm flour and 50ml of water, for liquid at 1:5 flour to water 100gm flour and 500ml water, which mean you only add 300ml for water in the above example for 80% hydration.
(Liquid starter I start off half the amount the day before, then around 6-8hours before mixing dough add the second half to the starter and mix your dough when the starter is good and active)
(1kg flour is probably an impractical measure, I just used it as a easier way to explain the ratios, I usual do batches of 830gm flour and 664ml water, of that 80gm flour is used in starter and correct ratio of water for which starter type, I bulk ferment then split into 2lafs for final proving and bake)
@@the_bread_code maybe another video on how to use liquid and stiff starters in recipes… Love your videos. Thank you for your replies.
Further to the above, my mother starter is 1:1 I keep it in the fridge so it only needs feeding once every week to two weeks,) I add a spoon full of this mother starter to the starters I will bake with.
This way I find most practical and you never have starter discards with this method
@@stupidhandles Super clear Dave, thank you for the time you took to 'splain to me…
Thanks! I’m fairly new to sourdough. I was wondering why some people’s videos are showing a soft, wet starter versus what I have. I have a fairly thick starter. It is like “the blob” and it seems to work well for me. I have a very simple way of using it and I don’t have to work with the dough much. I just make regular soft sourdough because my oven and my home cannot tolerate the very hot oven. So I’ll do things a little differently and it’s working out.
I 'm totally new to sourdough, and I found already your you-tube channel very interesting. I watched and learned alot at this time! Not fully understand everything but it will come.... hopefully 😅🙈👌 so thank you, Hope to see much more new videos 🍀🌹💖
Your videos are amazing! Mind blowing detail! Would you do a video on transferring from regular, to wet to stiff starters? (if already done, I apologies, still getting through the back log of vids!) thank you.
Wow...very interesting...i have seen so many variations in thickness of the starter and now I know why!! I use stiff version and it is very forgiving!
Your videos are really so helpful, thanks for that. Okay, I'm almost there. After doing research, more clarity is starting to come into my head. I still have one question. Your ideal starter is when you go from a regular, to liquid, to a stiff starter. But how long do you ferment the liquid starter (with de regular starter out of the fridge) for before switching to a stiff starter?
Wow! You are such a great teacher! I so enjoy the scientific explanation. Thanks for being an engineer.
Das war jetzt mal wirklich erleuchtend. Vielen Dank
Sehr gerne!
I am use regular starter then. I keep my starter in the fridge and I feed it the evening before I bake. I take it out the morning of to let it proof. I add the starter to the bread flour and water mix and let that proof. I then add freshly milled rye and hydrated toasted seeds, mix and let it proof again. The results go into bread pans to rise in the fridge before baking. I am getting good rise and sour flavor. I've used the same steps for whole wheat, but I have become quite partial to seeded rye sour dough bread.
Awesome, thanks so much, I learned a lot from this. Also explains my sour starter. Thanks!
Vielen Dank!
Einen konkreten Zeitplan hätte ich mir noch gewünscht. Also: nach wie vielen Fütterungen wandle ich den normalen Starter in den Flüssigen um und wann in den festen?
Thank you... Very helpful especially for a new sourdough bread lover.
Much love from southern Alberta Canada
Hendrik, first of all, I love you 😍, watched all your videos and I love your humor, explanations and everything about your channel. I have a very mature, active and healthy starter I feed once in a while with organic rye, I took a little bit of it to make another starter with the aim to get a liquid starter, followed your formula but my starter ended up as water on top and starter at the bottom, is it a gradual process? Did I do something wrong? Thanks a lot 🙏🏻
Amazing simple lecture for starter , I have a request , do you have and good description for quantities of starter for my bakery , we are in Middle East using factory yeast and I decide to change , thank you
You are a genius but unfortunately most people like me just can’t comprehend starting with regular starter,converting to a liquid starter then back to regular starter but maintaining the taste of the liquid starter ,so why change your starters and the lastly but always use the stiff starter even though the liquid will give you more sour notes only if you ferment longer. I know you are amazing and for scientific bakers the info is used but just regular home bakers can’t compute all this information so I feel very sad I still do not know any more about just how to bake a great loafof bread😞 I don’t have any idea what to do. But I do love you and appreciate you and all your research.
The most interresting and informative video yet. Now how do I use this information to my advantage? I have been using a 1:1 when feeding my starter, and after a while it started smelling like tutti-frutti. A mixture of apples and pears, maybe with a hint of apricot and banana. You said yours smell like dairy? does that mean cheese and sour-cream? I think I prefer tutti-frutti over that. The breads don't smell of tutti-frutti though, but have a very pleasant taste. I may try to convert to stiff, and jump over the fluid version, as no matter what, I can't find flour that behaves like the non-stick dough you manage to create. I'll try the fluid version for kicks and grins, but my flour quality dictates baking that version in a bread baking pan... even the regular 1:1 version becomes very soft, and doesn't create as much ovenspring as yours do.
Thank you so much! I just bought your ebook for Kindle! I was hoping to find some easy to reference recipes using your tips but could not. I still love the book but do have this question-if using the stiff starter, do I have to make any adjustments to the rest of a recipe to account for the lower hydration of the starter?
I love your bread engineering and science, Hendrik. I live in hot and humid Singapore, where I experience humidity as high as 84% and temperatures as high as 35C. Should I follow your recipe but reduce the timing by 1/3 because the starter should be more active and energetic? I also have a fermentation fridge where the temperature is between 18C and 20C. How should I tweak your recipes for hot and humid Singapore? By the way, I am learning sourdough bread for an Austrian friend who will bunk at my place for 4 months...
I needed this today! Thank you my German friend :)
My pleasure 🙏🏻
This was interesting, but I remember when you interviewed the gentleman from the sourdough library, he said that the stiff starter produced more of the sour flavor. The most that I got from this was that a stiff starter favored the yeast for rise.
I’m here also to ask this because I’ve read everywhere the stuff starter adds more sour flavor hope he chimes in here to help us
How do I remember all this ?? 😅 great video though, I love this channel! This is my main bread channel I go to when I need some help with my bread baking.
Sorry! I know it's a bit much haha.
Thank you! I want sour sourdough, so i am going to try the liquid! San francisco sourdough is my goal! Thank you!
Hello Hendrik, thank you for your channel. Just a reminder that you stated you would have another giveaway for your starter.
Great job! You’re amazing…may I ask you if you have any experience with preparing sourdough starter for Panettone recepie? Thanks
Which one you recommend for pizza? I would like to 48 hours ferment the dough on cold temp, 10-13 Celsius.
I have just separated my starter in 2, to test the liquid version. I think it is also becoming acid because I keep to much of it when I refresh, I recently discovered that only a teaspoon is enough . Let's see how this change will affect taste
Great info. I just made a loaf that was too sour. Now I have tools to avoid that. Thanks!
I want more sour! Please tell me what flour you use and how you feed! Thanks
Thanks a lot for the very useful video. However, i'm confused by one point. The liquid starter has more dairy flavor, but at the same time has higher acidity? I thought that a higher acidity will lead to a vinegary note (sour) rather than a dairy note...am i missing something?
Very interesting, will have to try the stiff starter as the best flour I can get is 11.5% here in 🇳🇦
Stiff starter will work great 👍
Could you share the link to the video about "cake flour mentioned at 5:44?
Great video.
Thought I'd try a liquid starter, liking the sound of the flavour. Normally feeding my starter 1:5:5, with Dark rye, I et a healthy rise of the starter, but not furious as some starters seem to be.
I took 10gms of my normal starter, added 50gms dark rye flour, and making a mistake, added only 100gms water, achieving a 1:5:10. with a temperature of 28C...A hot and balmy evening in Australia!
After 6hrs, the starter is bursting out of the Weck, the entire walls and domed top is dotted with bubbles, and disrupting the starter show a very substantial network. The starter is not that liquid as to a runny consistency and tastes fruity with a slight taste of cheese acid, or probably lactic acid rather than ethanoic acid.
I've never achieved such a result.
I'm going to discard and feed the same ratios again tonight and bake with 14% flour tomorrow.
Thanks for the tip, even if I got it wrong!
😊
Great 👍🏼 video. 😮. There are so many RUclips tutorials that use stiff starter & some liquid, it’s confusing because you don’t know the percentage of protein the flour is. Hummm🤔🤷♀️👍🏼❤️👍🏼
Thanks a lot for this. I've watched it twice now and find it extremely interesting! You have become very quiet, I hope all is well?
Very informative and clear. Thank you.
This is frickin' genius, Hendrik! Where did you learn this stuff? 🤪
Great video. Was having trouble with pancakes, you just help solve it. Thanks!
I find that the liquid starter takes longer, even significantly longer, to rise a loaf; so is the more sour flavor coming from the starter or from the longer fermentation? If I use a small amount of regular (or even stiff) starter so that they all ferment for the same amount of time, will the flavor be the same? Also, I find that my liquid starter has a very strong smell, not even close to dairy. It would be great to have a way to test what kind of acid you get in a liquid starter, not just in theory, but by doing some chemical analysis in a lab to validate if you're really getting acetic or lactic acid. Thanks!
Thank you for this video.
I starten my sourstarter 1 of februari.
Yesterday I mixed a thick starter, but it is very slow.
The 1-5-5 rices to more then double in 8 hours ,.. but the thick one took about 24 hours to reach double size and are still ricing.
What can you tell/read out about that ?
What if you mix the stiff and the wet after making the starter for the next loaf?
I'm curious about something: Has anyone tried using a precise but smaller mix of two starter types (stiff AND liquid) in their bread batch? So, less of each type but still totaling the overall "standard" amount of starter. Not sure how that might work -- but wondering if that would result in a more pronounced sour flavor (from liquid starter) but with the fluffy attributes of a stiff starter. Thoughts??
Thanks . These video is really helpfull to me , very clear expression
I need help!!! I’m on day two of my starter first time doing it. 1 cup rye flour 1 cup water. after 24 hrs i discarded half and added 1c of flour n water again. Now 12 hrs later it’s risen out of the container. Is that good or bad? And is it ok I discarded some at that point, it was overflowing? The dough is super stretchy too
So if I am understanding you correctly if I wanted a less sour bread I would use a stiff starter and limit the fermentation time a bit? Thanks
Yes. You could also put it in the freezer for about 45 minutes before scoring and baking instead of in the refrigerator overnight.
I have been making the regular starter for 5 days but day six I didn’t feed it and now it is day seven I put it in the fridge can I still feed it and use it or not?
I have a question. Is the San Francisco sourdough higher in lactic acid or acetic acid?
I really like your conclusions. To me is a question of Oxygen. Anerobic (alcohol) or Anerobic (Vinegar) and all in a High Protein (more than 12%) or low Protein (Less than 10%). So I always ask my self, how much vinegar (acidity) am I making.
Hallo, ich hab schon vor ein paar Wochen mit einem normales Starter angefangen. Jetzt dass ich ein flüssiges und evtl. ein dickes Starter futtern will, frage ich mich über die Fütternratio für beide. Würden Sie ein 1:2:10 für flüssig enpfehlen also praktisch 25% von dem Weizenanteil als Starter?
I hope you can help me. I watched your video twice and not grasping how to get a more sour loaf. I am using a regular starter (1:1:1) that is about a year old. I recently started feeding it every two weeks with 2/3 rye to 1/3 bread flour. I cannot get a sour flavor. Please tell me, in layman's terms, how to get a more sour sourdough. Thanks so much in advance.
Thank you Hendrick, very interesting. I was thinking that the sourness in the actual bread would then depend on the length of fermentation rather than the pH of the starter. Isn't the actual bread dough just like a new, bigger starter?
That's correct. But some starters will create acidity faster. If you look at a given volume increase you will see a different level of sourness 😎
Life trips me out sometimes, and I stopped believing in "coincidence" long ago. As I read his response to the original comment I hear thr video say regardless of the starter "the longer you let the loaf ferment, the more the acidity will build up" 😂
When mixing starters to get the properties of all three, this would be like a three day prep to bake - normal to liquid, to normal, to stiff? Otherwise if you leave it in one form eventually the ratio would start to return to be the dominant trait of the three as time passed?
What kind of flour do you use for your stiff starter? When I use rye flour there is nearly no size increase and no bubbles (of course due to the lack of gluten). Is Whole grain spelt working?
I have been using 100% whole grain spelt for my starter, for a few days I have been turning it into a stiff starter and it is working great, I fed it about 9 hours ago and it has almost tripled in size since then. So yes, it should work! :)
All flour works. But whole rye flour will soak up a looooooot of water. So in your case you might want to bump hydration up to 60% for instance.
Ah nice! Thanks. As I am making mostly Spelt breads I will convert my starter to Spelt I guess.
Your custom starter sounds tasty thanks for the explanation
Thanks for this very informative video. If you had to produce a naturally fermented bread that had a pH of 5.0 or higher, how would you do that? It sounds contrary to what sourdough is, so I wonder if it can be done.
Im decades away from even humbly considering myself knowledgable on sourdough, but my gut logic says you could get a super fermented starter going, then when it's time to make the bread, make it a super hydrated loaf (but prepare for those unique difficulties) so the starter allows it to ferment quickly enough for your needs, but the hyper saturation with the water balances out the pH
Does the liquid starter have the same effect when using rye stater and whole meal flour for the dough? Does it bring sourness with dairy notes ?
What do you consider a high amount of gluten. I use mainly AP flour (usually with some whole flour). Our AP is typically ~12%.
Also, I use a regular starter. Can we simply use THIS starter but when we feed prior to baking, use different ratios starter:H2O:four to achieve different flavour notes?
Yeah I've chosen bread flour since its ideal, but I've noticed even from thr same brand, the difference is usually max 2%. Like 11.2% for AP, 12.5% for bread. I think as humans we minimize things when it comes to numbers on paper, but I'd wager that every percent +/- makes a large difference when it comes to micro flora
Does the bacteria eat the protein or the acidity produced decreases the pH and when it reaches to a pH around 4 the protease enzymes befing to break down the protein
Awesome video! :)
But some questions came up watching it, especially with the graph of vol. growth and pH over time:
How do you explain that the pH-value of the starter with the 25°C is decreasing faster than the 21°C one? Doesn't it somehow contradict the rule of very mild starter feeding should be done at about 27°C while a lower temp is gonna lead to a more sour taste?
The next question (And maybe already kind of an answer to the first one lol :D): Do you think it is correct to see the pH-Value as one and only factor that determines how sour it tastes? I very often heard and read that it is actually the ratio between lactic acid and acetic acid what is important for the taste. Commonly the ratio is between 3:1 and 4:1. A ratio near 3:1 leads to mild flavor, while an increasing amount of acetic acid vs. lactic acid leads to a more sour flavor.
No smart-assery, just exchange of ideas between nerds :D
Great question! Please keep all the questions coming, it's good to have a healthy discussion.
1) Regarding the temperature. I could not find a relation between a colder temperature and a more sour taste. I have testing 21°C vs 25°C in an experiment last year. Maybe the difference is not big enough.
2) Correct! Lactic acid is actually more sour on the pH scale, but when tasting it, it seems milder. Quite an awesome thing if you ask me. So assuming you have 2 doughs, one with only lactic acid, one with acetic acid, both have the same pH in the end. Then the acetic dough will feel a lot more sour when tasting it!
@@the_bread_code 1) Yeah I agree, the difference may be not that big for one feeding only. I definitely encountered a difference when baking the recipe 'Mildes Weizensauerteigbrot' from plötzblog. The starter is refreshed 2-3 times at 27°C and also bulk fermentation is being done at this temp. That makes the bread tasting very mild already. When I used the rest of my starter for a 2nd bread some days later - same routine - I ended up with a bread with absolutely no sour flavor at all. It tasted really boring. I unfortunately have no pH meter but it would be really interesting to know what pH-value it had. 🤔
2) Awesome that makes totally sense to me. Thank you!
🙃
Hey, i have the Problem that my starter starte to smell like Aceton (nailpolish) & i heard tbat a liquid starter helps with that. Did you ever had this problem with your Stiff one? Liebe Grüße 😌
My starter more than doubles in size and is very bubbly but won't pass the float test. Is it still usable? Do you have any suggestions?
Float test is overrated. Don't rely on it :-)
I have a question. My last sour dough starter which was a 50/50 became super sour and vinegary after a couple of months of use. So much so I ended up throwing it out. I have just started another one but wondering why did this change occur and it is possible to repair?
How much protein do you need if you are baking with a liquid starter
Interesting. I have a type of Lievito Madre born out of my 1:2 rye starter, it works well, but it's a bit on the sour side. So watching and reading your blog it seems I should dump it, create a 1:5 starter from the rye starter, and after it smells yogurty convert it to a 2:1 stiffy. Did I got that correctly?
And what you use for the darker breads where you want the stronger note? The 1:5 starter?
Very helpful. Thank you
I already change my regular starter to liquid starter for 3days,but it still taste vinegary and sour i feed it twice in a day for 5g starter 30g bread flour 150g water .
Have any solve for my vinegary starter(it too sour break my sourdough gluten at all)
Was about to ask whether it could be a fun experiment to combine liquid and stiff starter in a dough to get a high yeast high lactic acid combo with less acetic acid bacteria, but I guess you somewhat achieve the same by turning your liquid starter into a stiff starter?
Do you mix the liquid starter before you use it to make your regular starter? Or do you just use the liquid on top?
I shake it and then use it. If you want, you can make a sauce from the top liquid. It is excellent for hot sauces 🤗. Most of the microorganisms are close to the food, at the bottom.