I'm a Steelers fan, so I admit my bias off the top. The reason why I and maybe other Steelers fans get annoyed over the Myles Garrett/TJ Watt debate is how PFF's numbers aren't a great representation of how a game goes. A pass rusher's score (for PFF and pass rush win rate) look at the first few seconds of a play to determine if the defensive player beat their blocker. It's a fine measure since most QBs don't hold onto the ball all day, but it doesn't weigh what happens after those 2-3 seconds enough. A lot of Watt's plays are hustle plays after those first few seconds, which is why PFF grades him lower than Garrett. Now look at their sack numbers and tell me why Watt has more? Is it the double and triple team rate? Watt goes in coverage more than Myles, so that's unlikely a big enough difference. Do QBs throw faster against the Browns than the Steelers? That's unlikely because they play such similar schedules. What do I think it is? If Myles doesn't get to the QB in a few seconds he just jogs around and loosely follows the play. He doesn't have hustle sacks because he gives up on plays and TJ.
PFF: TJ Watt is just good stats. Also PFF: LOOK AT WINFIELD JRs STATS. PFF: We are looking for versatility. Also PFF: Sure TJ brings a wider skill set to the table, but have you SEEN Garrett's Pass Rush Win Rate*. Pass rush win rate is a garbo stat and heres why. It includes "rushes" that are touch the OL pads and drop into coverage. It penalizes edge rushers who drop into coverage like a TJ Watt or they did this same thing to Khalil Mack and Von Miller when under Fangio. Also TJ Watt has more passes broken up (8) than Winfield (7) AS AN EDGE. Cant wait for next year for PFFs mental gymnastics on fellating Garrett and Parsons. "Sure on paper they are worse but have you seen how many times they get through and DON'T get a sack?"
Your comment was so stupid that it killed all of my brain cells and now I can't remember who i am or where I'm at. Thanks for that I guess, hopefully I never see or hear anything else you say
MVP: Tyreek Hill OPotY: Christian McCaffrey DPotY: Myles Garrett RotY: CJ Stroud ORotY: Puka Nacua DRotY: Devon Witherspoon CotY: Kevin Stefanski CPotY: Joe Flacco
Dak-to-Cedee has become an automatic weapon. If Cedarian played in Washington, Minnesota, or Detroit they'd worship him like the second coming, but because he has a ⭐️ on his helmet he has to be almost perfect to get basic respect 🤷🏾♂️
The NFL should just adopt an award structure of: MVQb, Offensive Player of the Year (non-Qbs only), and Defensive Player of the Year. That would cut out all the confusion so we can stop hearing this same discussion every year.
For breakout player of the year I am surprised you guys did not mention any of the Ravens young defensive guys considering several are having breakout seasons this year. Particularly Kyle Hamilton and Justin Madubuike but also Patrick Queen, Geno Stone, and Brandon Stephens.
Am i the only person who saw the 9ers were rolling before cmac?? Didnt we all say how unfair it was he got added as a mega star to a team that was already killing it lol?
Myles Garret is the most dominant force on defense in the NFL right now. 32 NFL teams know it. Anyone who watches him without their biased glasses on knows it.
As a ravens fan i got myles and tj neck to neck but to he fair, myles scares me more with his crazy inside moves. Tj scares me because for whatever reason my ravens like to forget hes there and gives him some free rushes
...Mcaffery got the nod from Trevor as offensive player of the year. Trent Williams was mentioned as another potential candidate for offensive lineman of the year. Purdy was mentioned in MVP briefly.
It's more difficult to do what puka did than stroud. Strouds han amazing year but we've seen other rookies play aswell puka broke 60 year old yardage records and rookie reception records
I am not saying Purdy should win comeback player of the year, but I think he should be in consideration since he nearly won MVP after having his elbow wrecked in the NFC Championship last year. That seems pretty impressive to me.
@@sacpike Purdy got hurt in a playoff game and returned and never missed a beat. People who win the award generally suffer a significant injury during the season or in the case of Mike Vick personal adversity. If Purdy suffered the injury during his run, he may have been considered
damar yes agreed...and not a tuaneer hes on my s list as of last week...but is he not worthy of at least comeback player consideration nvm a superbowl winning qb coming off the couch?
If you're not gonna give Stefanski credit for keeping a team together with duck-tape, but hiring a good DC, how can you say the same about John Harbaugh when he doesn't even playcall on either side of the ball? Lamar goes down that team is 9 wins at best. Ridiculous take.
I hate that MVP is "Best QB' because real talk the MVP is Tyreek. I'm a Lions fans so I'm super indifferent on the Dolphins, but he's straight up dominant this year and changes games in a way I haven't seen since Calvin.
@@WhydoIsuddenlyhaveahandle Oh look it's another boxscore watcher. There is a reason he's going to be the MVP and 1st team All Pro. The players see it and the writers see it, I'm sorry if you can't but it is what it is..
@adamletschin7759 no one was even talking about Lamar bring MVP 3 weeks ago. Its because no other QB has stepped up to grab it and the media is obsessed with giving to a QB. In the past month it was Purdy, then Dak, then Lamar
So if he comes back to life and he's cut from the roster, is he still comeback player of the year? I'm just saying I feel like the only reason he's on the team still is because his heart stopped. Not many teams keep on players just to be special teams
I feel like you didn’t give Kevin stefanski enough respect. Yes the Browns defense and Jim swartz has had a great year but stefanski runs the offense and yes the offense hasn’t been great actually it’s been bad at times but the facts are .losing 2 all pro o lineman early . Losing the arguably best running back in the NFL in nick chubb in week 2 ( and the offense was a run centered offense because of the o line and chubb) then losing not only the starting QB but losing every QB you had on your roster to start the season to injury. Signing 2 guys off the street PJ walker and Flacco and winning with them. Winning with 4 different starting QBs 2 of which you signed off the street. and the first 1 in PJ walker after he was signed off the street put up 19 points against the stacked 49ers and beating them. (Yes the defense won that for the browns) but that type of adversity in totality has never been seen in the NFL. Hats off to Kevin stefanski
I was with all the opinions until the coach of the year thing. That was absurd. And the rationale used is why all the analytics guys "next big thing" as a coach always fails. Coaching is beyond stats. It's keeping your team together, holding ppl accountable to show up. But the main thing is about teaching. And hiring a staff that teaches is being a good coach. There's 3 people only that can be considered. Stefanski/Tomlin/Ryans. Even mentioning AP is absurd
You said you wanted best player and don't care if it is QB, yet you pick Lamar Jackson who isn't even your highest graded QB, his own position. Allen is your #1 overall graded quarterback. I love PFF's data but it loses something when you don't follow your own.
Being the MVP is more than just who is the best graded QB. Also, you act like it’s Josh Allen, a huge gap, then the #2 QB. The top 3 QBs are separated by like 1 data point. Then you just look at who’s truly the best player on the field all the time, and it’s Lamar Jackson
How is Tua not a consensus CBPOY this year? Hamlin has played 3 snaps. Tua led his team to the playoffs after having to miss the end of the season &, multiple games during the season due to the concussions. Joe Flacco for that award is a joke as well. He played last year. It was just on a shitty team.
LOLOLOL on Myles Garrett being Defensive Player of the Year when he was statistically beaten by Josh Allen, Trey Hendrickson, Maxx Crosby and TJ Watt in almost every category.
PFF Pass Rush Win Rate: When TJ lines up at the line of scrimmage it counts as a pass rush EVEN ON PLAYS WHEN HE DROPS INTO COVERAGE. In fact, when TJ lines up at the line of scrimmage and drops into coverage it counts as a PASS RUSH LOSS.... It's absolutely ignorant and the fact that they haven't fixed how they calculate this is a huge oversight. It's also proof that you cannot use PFF as a reliable source of information.
@@JoshisproblyhighWhat a wild claim with nothing to back it up. Show me the plays where that's the case & don't say go look it up cause that's a weak defense.
@@J4Washington Their definitions of pass rush wins vs pass rush losses are available on their website. It applies to any player designated as a rusher, which is also explained on their website. If someone designated as a rusher begins the play at the line only 2 things can happen, a win or a loss. There are varying degrees of winning, with a loss simply being a loss.
@@Joshisproblyhigh There's varying degrees of losses as well in their grading. It scales from 2 to -2 at .5 increments. So that's factual untrue. If a rusher commits to a rush loses then drops into coverage after the loss it doesn't get rid of the initial loss. Also just cause you start at the LOS doesn't mean it's an automatic pass rush they grade the entire play.
They are definitely right on MVP Lamar Jackson is the only quarterback that only lost by 7 points this regular season. Every other quarterback has had a terrible game and has been blown out atleast twice.
@@mikenike1616 So?! Lamar doesn’t have to play his defense in a real game. Take away that defense and he’d be in trouble. There are 4 players that have over 1,000 yards on offense for the 49ers and Purdy has a lot to do with it, even Dak has better stats than Lamar…
@@ZAPPED916 you are a fool lamar been taking the ravens to the playoffs since he was drafted. He literally been number in time of possession since his enter the league. He also has had the top 4 scoring offense since his been the starter the ravens never been that. He also been the only quarterback that scores in the first half every game this regular season accept one and he came back in won that game. The ravens defense is rank 15 against the run they give up 110 yards a game. But because the offense scores first a lot they turn their opponents one dimensional where the good to average pass rusher and the elite safety group can have feast. The ravens offense and defense are technically equal when it comes to stats. But if you watch them all year you would know it was Lamar. The ravens defense done had games where they gave up over 24 and 30 points but it was Lamar ran through his way to victory. Like I said he was the only quarterback in the regular season not to get blown out and he usually had the lead so why would he throw ball 40 times a game when he run and throw or had it off and let clock run out instead of patting stats so people who don’t think he was good whooping on beaten team 3689 yards passing that’s only 300 something yards from 4000 and he didn’t play his last game plus he left the game early against the dolphins and 49ers because it was a blowout. Two teams that whooped Dak and the ravens defense been lit up this year more then twice Stafford and Burrow was good enough to do it I am sorry if your favorite quarterback wasn’t but Lamar and ravens still handed them a L
Trevor just convinced me that Antoine Winfield, Jr. is the defensive MVP. I’m not biased because I’m a Minnesota Gopher fan, maybe.
Trevor is just not that good imo
Comeback Player of the Year is Joe Flacco, easily.
Yea, they give Hamlin credit for not dying when Flacco did also not die
I'm a Steelers fan, so I admit my bias off the top. The reason why I and maybe other Steelers fans get annoyed over the Myles Garrett/TJ Watt debate is how PFF's numbers aren't a great representation of how a game goes. A pass rusher's score (for PFF and pass rush win rate) look at the first few seconds of a play to determine if the defensive player beat their blocker. It's a fine measure since most QBs don't hold onto the ball all day, but it doesn't weigh what happens after those 2-3 seconds enough. A lot of Watt's plays are hustle plays after those first few seconds, which is why PFF grades him lower than Garrett. Now look at their sack numbers and tell me why Watt has more? Is it the double and triple team rate? Watt goes in coverage more than Myles, so that's unlikely a big enough difference. Do QBs throw faster against the Browns than the Steelers? That's unlikely because they play such similar schedules. What do I think it is? If Myles doesn't get to the QB in a few seconds he just jogs around and loosely follows the play. He doesn't have hustle sacks because he gives up on plays and TJ.
Tj watt is demonstrable,Infinitely, inestimably better
Stafford missed like half the season last year with a spinal cord contusion?? A lot of people thought he was going to retire at the end of last year.
PFF: TJ Watt is just good stats.
Also PFF: LOOK AT WINFIELD JRs STATS.
PFF: We are looking for versatility.
Also PFF: Sure TJ brings a wider skill set to the table, but have you SEEN Garrett's Pass Rush Win Rate*.
Pass rush win rate is a garbo stat and heres why. It includes "rushes" that are touch the OL pads and drop into coverage. It penalizes edge rushers who drop into coverage like a TJ Watt or they did this same thing to Khalil Mack and Von Miller when under Fangio.
Also TJ Watt has more passes broken up (8) than Winfield (7) AS AN EDGE. Cant wait for next year for PFFs mental gymnastics on fellating Garrett and Parsons. "Sure on paper they are worse but have you seen how many times they get through and DON'T get a sack?"
no tuxedos for the award show? 😂
I fully agree with everything you guys said about mvp
Kobie Turner should be the winner of DPOY. Stats speak for themselves. Stop the east coast bias.
This 100%
Your comment was so stupid that it killed all of my brain cells and now I can't remember who i am or where I'm at. Thanks for that I guess, hopefully I never see or hear anything else you say
MVP: Tyreek Hill
OPotY: Christian McCaffrey
DPotY: Myles Garrett
RotY: CJ Stroud
ORotY: Puka Nacua
DRotY: Devon Witherspoon
CotY: Kevin Stefanski
CPotY: Joe Flacco
They are NOT going to give a team 3 awards y’all have no clue bro
trevor's reasoning for anderson winning droy is exactly why tj should be dpoy
Cardinals 28 - Cowboys 16
49ers 42 - Cowboys 10
Bills 31 - Cowboys 10
3/17 Look man, I'm not a big Dak fan but his entire team were bad those games. He wasn't responsible
Dak-to-Cedee has become an automatic weapon. If Cedarian played in Washington, Minnesota, or Detroit they'd worship him like the second coming, but because he has a ⭐️ on his helmet he has to be almost perfect to get basic respect 🤷🏾♂️
That's a fair explanation for MVP
The NFL should just adopt an award structure of: MVQb, Offensive Player of the Year (non-Qbs only), and Defensive Player of the Year. That would cut out all the confusion so we can stop hearing this same discussion every year.
33:39 says a lot about PFF analysis 🧐
Has anyone asked Damar Hamlin if he wants comeback player of the year? Seems like that'd be a pertinent perspective to have.
Come back means you're now playing at an elite level, not for not dying.
For breakout player of the year I am surprised you guys did not mention any of the Ravens young defensive guys considering several are having breakout seasons this year. Particularly Kyle Hamilton and Justin Madubuike but also Patrick Queen, Geno Stone, and Brandon Stephens.
rookies are not eligible for breakout player boss
@@yelsu3358 Zay is the ravens only rookie that has played any meaningful time this year and he is on offense
I’d say Hamilton was great in his rookie year I don’t think this year is really a breakout year per se
Stafford missed 7 games last season so that’s why he’s in consideration
Flacco was unemployed on his couch
@@JoePackJoeNC ok?
@@JoePackJoeNCFlacco was playing for the jets last year
You guys are going to work extra hard for Myles Garrett tonight 😂
He got dog walked to by one person 😂
@@coreynoble1947he almost had a sack in this game😂
@@wvsteelhillz8846 when I didn't see
Am i the only person who saw the 9ers were rolling before cmac?? Didnt we all say how unfair it was he got added as a mega star to a team that was already killing it lol?
Max Crosby for defensive player of the year.
Brandon Aubrey is the quintessential Dwight Stephenson candidate
J love, breakout
Bakers career was basically over and he was injured all of 2021 bakers stats alone get him the award
He played 14 games in 2021
@@kahlilpittman8404 yea but he tore his labrum in week 2 and plays the 12 games w it
@@Perks5 yeah exactly, he “played”
Myles Garret is the most dominant force on defense in the NFL right now. 32 NFL teams know it. Anyone who watches him without their biased glasses on knows it.
As a ravens fan i got myles and tj neck to neck but to he fair, myles scares me more with his crazy inside moves. Tj scares me because for whatever reason my ravens like to forget hes there and gives him some free rushes
Micah 🦁 Parsons is the unblockable chess piece that would basically avg 5/6 sacks a game if he wasn't held 90% of the defensive plays from scrimmage.
hypothetical stats don't win awards big guy
Does the coach not hit his coordinator? So why is it a negative against Kevin that Jim turned the defense around
Kind of mental that no single mention of the 49ers is in this entire show outside of a brief note of a previous Trent Williams season
...Mcaffery got the nod from Trevor as offensive player of the year. Trent Williams was mentioned as another potential candidate for offensive lineman of the year. Purdy was mentioned in MVP briefly.
@@mac102938 you're right. Forgot about McCaffrey
Can’t understand how Tua isn’t in comeback player of the year conversation.
Josh Allen for most Josh Allen award.
Lamar is MVP hands down, take him off that team and that offense isn't doing anything. He is that offense
put baker for ravens will make the playoffs
It's more difficult to do what puka did than stroud. Strouds han amazing year but we've seen other rookies play aswell puka broke 60 year old yardage records and rookie reception records
I am not saying Purdy should win comeback player of the year, but I think he should be in consideration since he nearly won MVP after having his elbow wrecked in the NFC Championship last year. That seems pretty impressive to me.
That’s not how that works at all
@@kahlilpittman8404 How does it work then?
@@sacpike Purdy got hurt in a playoff game and returned and never missed a beat. People who win the award generally suffer a significant injury during the season or in the case of Mike Vick personal adversity. If Purdy suffered the injury during his run, he may have been considered
damar yes agreed...and not a tuaneer hes on my s list as of last week...but is he not worthy of at least comeback player consideration nvm a superbowl winning qb coming off the couch?
Maybe you guys will actually give a good argument as to why Lamar deserves an MVP award when he wins his 3rd or 4th 😂
If you can’t see why Lamar is the frontrunner for MVP then just give up watching football. It’s as clear as day
MVP might as well be called “Best QB Award” Lamar is the best qb in the down year for qb’s.
You all are just blowing smoke. Be fr add the stories into the effect. You all are not being serious at all !
If you're not gonna give Stefanski credit for keeping a team together with duck-tape, but hiring a good DC, how can you say the same about John Harbaugh when he doesn't even playcall on either side of the ball? Lamar goes down that team is 9 wins at best. Ridiculous take.
I hate that MVP is "Best QB' because real talk the MVP is Tyreek. I'm a Lions fans so I'm super indifferent on the Dolphins, but he's straight up dominant this year and changes games in a way I haven't seen since Calvin.
Real talk. No it's not, it's Lamar Jackson
I agree about the qb frustration, but CMC is having a better year
@adamletschin7759 Lamar isn't even the best at his position. Not even top 10 in some categories.
Lamar being the mvp is a joke
@@WhydoIsuddenlyhaveahandle
Oh look it's another boxscore watcher.
There is a reason he's going to be the MVP and 1st team All Pro. The players see it and the writers see it, I'm sorry if you can't but it is what it is..
@adamletschin7759 no one was even talking about Lamar bring MVP 3 weeks ago. Its because no other QB has stepped up to grab it and the media is obsessed with giving to a QB.
In the past month it was Purdy, then Dak, then Lamar
Where’s my award?
So if he comes back to life and he's cut from the roster, is he still comeback player of the year? I'm just saying I feel like the only reason he's on the team still is because his heart stopped. Not many teams keep on players just to be special teams
I feel like you didn’t give Kevin stefanski enough respect. Yes the Browns defense and Jim swartz has had a great year but stefanski runs the offense and yes the offense hasn’t been great actually it’s been bad at times but the facts are .losing 2 all pro o lineman early . Losing the arguably best running back in the NFL in nick chubb in week 2 ( and the offense was a run centered offense because of the o line and chubb) then losing not only the starting QB but losing every QB you had on your roster to start the season to injury. Signing 2 guys off the street PJ walker and Flacco and winning with them. Winning with 4 different starting QBs 2 of which you signed off the street. and the first 1 in PJ walker after he was signed off the street put up 19 points against the stacked 49ers and beating them. (Yes the defense won that for the browns) but that type of adversity in totality has never been seen in the NFL. Hats off to Kevin stefanski
I was with all the opinions until the coach of the year thing. That was absurd. And the rationale used is why all the analytics guys "next big thing" as a coach always fails. Coaching is beyond stats. It's keeping your team together, holding ppl accountable to show up. But the main thing is about teaching. And hiring a staff that teaches is being a good coach. There's 3 people only that can be considered. Stefanski/Tomlin/Ryans. Even mentioning AP is absurd
Honestly Lamar should have never become “that guy” for MVP lol
You said you wanted best player and don't care if it is QB, yet you pick Lamar Jackson who isn't even your highest graded QB, his own position.
Allen is your #1 overall graded quarterback.
I love PFF's data but it loses something when you don't follow your own.
Being the MVP is more than just who is the best graded QB. Also, you act like it’s Josh Allen, a huge gap, then the #2 QB. The top 3 QBs are separated by like 1 data point. Then you just look at who’s truly the best player on the field all the time, and it’s Lamar Jackson
7 d dark ride adventure
Mayfield hadn't been good since his surgery. He wasn't ready mentally or physically last year. A residual from his injury.
Break out player...Durand Bland broke an impossible NFL record
Kevin stefanski
So Purdy deserves no awards but has the best team in the nfc ok yall are not valid all bias
What award should he win?
Damar Hamlin isn’t even good
Damar "2 tackle" Hamlin
Dude is the only NFL player who gets credit for being alive
Awe yes, the good player who came back of the year award...oh wait
@@Frostypower Probably because he's the only one whos died 💀
@@jacksonklark6119 and he should be rewarded for that?
How is Tua not a consensus CBPOY this year? Hamlin has played 3 snaps. Tua led his team to the playoffs after having to miss the end of the season &, multiple games during the season due to the concussions. Joe Flacco for that award is a joke as well. He played last year. It was just on a shitty team.
Breakout player should be Kyle Hamilton
LOLOLOL on Myles Garrett being Defensive Player of the Year when he was statistically beaten by Josh Allen, Trey Hendrickson, Maxx Crosby and TJ Watt in almost every category.
PFF Pass Rush Win Rate: When TJ lines up at the line of scrimmage it counts as a pass rush EVEN ON PLAYS WHEN HE DROPS INTO COVERAGE. In fact, when TJ lines up at the line of scrimmage and drops into coverage it counts as a PASS RUSH LOSS.... It's absolutely ignorant and the fact that they haven't fixed how they calculate this is a huge oversight. It's also proof that you cannot use PFF as a reliable source of information.
@@JoshisproblyhighWhat a wild claim with nothing to back it up. Show me the plays where that's the case & don't say go look it up cause that's a weak defense.
You like sack don’t you boy
@@J4Washington Their definitions of pass rush wins vs pass rush losses are available on their website. It applies to any player designated as a rusher, which is also explained on their website. If someone designated as a rusher begins the play at the line only 2 things can happen, a win or a loss. There are varying degrees of winning, with a loss simply being a loss.
@@Joshisproblyhigh There's varying degrees of losses as well in their grading. It scales from 2 to -2 at .5 increments. So that's factual untrue.
If a rusher commits to a rush loses then drops into coverage after the loss it doesn't get rid of the initial loss. Also just cause you start at the LOS doesn't mean it's an automatic pass rush they grade the entire play.
Dak all the way Lamar don't got the stats dak does wow
Swap teams and dak is compete garbage on the ravens
You are crazy he played better then any quarterback in the nfl
This show trash
Sam obsession with hating on TJ Watt is weird
Illogical take on come back poy. It’s a football award not a life award.
Josh Allen is the mvp
BS!!!!!!!!!!!
They are a joke
Can we please stop saying the terms “giving flowers” and “he’s him”?! It’s annoying, imo. Btw they’re wrong on the MVP.
They are definitely right on MVP Lamar Jackson is the only quarterback that only lost by 7 points this regular season. Every other quarterback has had a terrible game and has been blown out atleast twice.
@@mikenike1616 So?! Lamar doesn’t have to play his defense in a real game. Take away that defense and he’d be in trouble. There are 4 players that have over 1,000 yards on offense for the 49ers and Purdy has a lot to do with it, even Dak has better stats than Lamar…
i promise u nobody cares about your opinion respectfully
@@2joof I’m aware of that.
@@ZAPPED916 you are a fool lamar been taking the ravens to the playoffs since he was drafted. He literally been number in time of possession since his enter the league. He also has had the top 4 scoring offense since his been the starter the ravens never been that. He also been the only quarterback that scores in the first half every game this regular season accept one and he came back in won that game. The ravens defense is rank 15 against the run they give up 110 yards a game. But because the offense scores first a lot they turn their opponents one dimensional where the good to average pass rusher and the elite safety group can have feast. The ravens offense and defense are technically equal when it comes to stats. But if you watch them all year you would know it was Lamar. The ravens defense done had games where they gave up over 24 and 30 points but it was Lamar ran through his way to victory. Like I said he was the only quarterback in the regular season not to get blown out and he usually had the lead so why would he throw ball 40 times a game when he run and throw or had it off and let clock run out instead of patting stats so people who don’t think he was good whooping on beaten team 3689 yards passing that’s only 300 something yards from 4000 and he didn’t play his last game plus he left the game early against the dolphins and 49ers because it was a blowout. Two teams that whooped Dak and the ravens defense been lit up this year more then twice Stafford and Burrow was good enough to do it I am sorry if your favorite quarterback wasn’t but Lamar and ravens still handed them a L