I think a bit of the confusion here is that cppreference isn't meant to be a resource for beginners, it's meant to be an open-source copy of the C++ ISO standard that's better categorized and formatted. There are plenty of other websites with better C++ beginner resources that can give a much better explanation of what std::forward does.
But cppreference isn't a documentation. It is an attempt to translate c++ standard from standardese to something that humans can understand. It is not a place where you should learn c++. Use something like learncpp or cppcon back to basics series.
Too simple is better than this shit. They should write 2 sections for each function/thing, a small section with a simple example and then all the technical jargon afterwards.
Certain libraries are the exception. Comparing to Rust (the context of the video) for example, the documentation approach is unified and the same everywhere, making it easier to find the docs you need very easily. Doxygen is good if used properly. On the stream I mention that there are libraries fairly well documented (boost, qt etc)
I completely agree on you with this. If i want to learn something new, i don't generally use documentation because of the complexity of some of the code.
You are a beginner and just integrated `fmt` into your code. You are curious to see how `println` is implemented so you F12 it... boom, std::forward right there... They won't "need it" but they will come across it, that's the point made in the video
just because u don't like it doesn't mean it's bad. Cppreference is one of top-notch documentation of high quality. I would never want it to be like geeksforgeeks or some tutorial blog.
Yup! And that's why I'm a pure C guy all the way! I can have a whole reference, step-by-step tutorial and guide and erratas all on my desk, and in less than one claws-length too! It's lovely!
From POV after some time or year you get good understanding of thing by syntax than documentation and also documentation is important but for that u can find other site not standard c++ documentation see people at different stage need to see different thing and this is the highest peek
People shouldn't need to buy a book or go to college to learn a programming language. Documentation is definitely one of the best places to learn a language. Just unlucky we don't have good docs standards in C++
@@codingwithmat Agreedc there - I learned c++ by going through learncpp and watching cppcon videos and help on the TCCPP discord. Cppref is good, but learning to read and understand it is a skill you have to learn, and often I'll combine looking at that with checking out SO answers
You seem to still misunderstand here. A language reference is a technical document, not exactly a documentation (learning document) like you seem to think. Have you seen the JavaScript reference? It's complicated too. It's like looking at a building schematics, they're technical. They're not meant for beginners. With that said, C++ isn't a clean language either so that doesn't make it easier, so many exceptions to exceptions, and complicated template/generics salad.
C/C++ is not for softboys. If you are a beginner and you can't get into cppreference, ANSI/IEC, you don't need it. Don't even try, unless it is difficult for you, but surmountable and you are not afraid. Language syntax and libraries are a fraction of all knowledge. Take into account platforms, compilers. Sometimes programs are deliberately written with errors (undefined behaviour in benchmarks, for example) and you should see and understand it.
What's your favourite complicated cppreference page? 😅
Official documentation page for cpp boost asio…. Man
C++20 coroutine, the control flow is complex by itself.
That site is not intended for beginners. It's meant to be very precise, not-beginner friendly. It assumes you're somewhere familiar with C++.
so true, sometimes i get chatgpt to write some clearer example code if i need to understand something where the docs are too confusing
💯 this is what I've been doing too recently... And I'm a seasoned cop developer
@@codingwithmat good to know i'm not alone in this!
I've been doing that for so long!
I think a bit of the confusion here is that cppreference isn't meant to be a resource for beginners, it's meant to be an open-source copy of the C++ ISO standard that's better categorized and formatted. There are plenty of other websites with better C++ beginner resources that can give a much better explanation of what std::forward does.
But cppreference isn't a documentation. It is an attempt to translate c++ standard from standardese to something that humans can understand. It is not a place where you should learn c++. Use something like learncpp or cppcon back to basics series.
Atleast its detailed. Some documentations go the other way, that is too simple and doesn't give much detail
Too simple is better than this shit. They should write 2 sections for each function/thing, a small section with a simple example and then all the technical jargon afterwards.
We need cppreference for dummies
Tbh. Cppreference is actually not that terrible, ever seen llvm doxygen files?
Certain libraries are the exception. Comparing to Rust (the context of the video) for example, the documentation approach is unified and the same everywhere, making it easier to find the docs you need very easily.
Doxygen is good if used properly. On the stream I mention that there are libraries fairly well documented (boost, qt etc)
Btw I stay away from llvm / GCC docs. Nothing can be worse than those hahaha
I completely agree on you with this. If i want to learn something new, i don't generally use documentation because of the complexity of some of the code.
To be fair, "if as a beginner" - I can't see a reasonable scenario where a beginner would *need* std::forward...
You are a beginner and just integrated `fmt` into your code. You are curious to see how `println` is implemented so you F12 it... boom, std::forward right there...
They won't "need it" but they will come across it, that's the point made in the video
@@codingwithmat fair enough :)
just because u don't like it doesn't mean it's bad. Cppreference is one of top-notch documentation of high quality. I would never want it to be like geeksforgeeks or some tutorial blog.
Yup! And that's why I'm a pure C guy all the way! I can have a whole reference, step-by-step tutorial and guide and erratas all on my desk, and in less than one claws-length too! It's lovely!
This is when I like Microsoft’s MSVC docs
Viewing or reading docs also keep "Tutorial Hell" apart
From POV after some time or year you get good understanding of thing by syntax than documentation and also documentation is important but for that u can find other site not standard c++ documentation see people at different stage need to see different thing and this is the highest peek
Git gud is my favorite method 🌚
That's why people learn C++ in colleges or by reading books or tutorials.
The cppreference site is reference, not tutorial.
People shouldn't need to buy a book or go to college to learn a programming language. Documentation is definitely one of the best places to learn a language. Just unlucky we don't have good docs standards in C++
@@codingwithmat Agreedc there - I learned c++ by going through learncpp and watching cppcon videos and help on the TCCPP discord. Cppref is good, but learning to read and understand it is a skill you have to learn, and often I'll combine looking at that with checking out SO answers
If a child is unable read and understand the stuff, the documents are not acceptable.
You seem to still misunderstand here. A language reference is a technical document, not exactly a documentation (learning document) like you seem to think. Have you seen the JavaScript reference? It's complicated too.
It's like looking at a building schematics, they're technical. They're not meant for beginners. With that said, C++ isn't a clean language either so that doesn't make it easier, so many exceptions to exceptions, and complicated template/generics salad.
And it's never going to get better, even as the language continues to grow at a greater rate. This will never get better.
Ahh... another great find in cppreference. Thanks.
Если ты новичок, то std::forward тебе не нужен
A beginner is not going to read the reference for the c++ standard library...
for your information std::forward is not for beginners.
i mean thats a skill issue if ive ever seen one
i much prefer cppreference than any doxygen-generated documentation
It's simple,
The thing which isn't correct is the fact that it's very hard to translate logic Etc
I disagree. Julia documentation is much worse. Python is way better. I'd say c++ sits square in the middle. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
Me and python documentation
Python is a piece of cake
If Rex Orange County was in IT
Bro I had to look him up and you're spot on! Hahahaha
thats crazy
I abandoned C++ decades ago, and kept my sanity.
I just ask chat gpt to explain me cpp now.... It works better... "my personal teacher and programmer"
Still better than python
i see u have the c++ bags under ur eyes too
well, if you're a beginner starting to learn C++.. that's your mistake right there. learn something else.
I agree
C/C++ is not for softboys. If you are a beginner and you can't get into cppreference, ANSI/IEC, you don't need it. Don't even try, unless it is difficult for you, but surmountable and you are not afraid. Language syntax and libraries are a fraction of all knowledge. Take into account platforms, compilers. Sometimes programs are deliberately written with errors (undefined behaviour in benchmarks, for example) and you should see and understand it.