What is the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA)?
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- The ELCA is the largest American Lutheran Church body. This video tells more about who they are and what they believe.
0:00 History of the ELCA
0:45 Confessions
3:10 Relation to Conservative Lutherans
3:33 Relation to Mainline Denominations
4:47 Historicity of the Bible
7:37 Trinity
8:14 Resurrection
10:08 Sacraments
10:28 Baptism
11:57 Confirmation/Affirmation of Baptism
12:29 Communion/Eucharist
14:10 Scripture/Canon/Apocrypha
14:48 Evolution
16:27 Salvation
19:17 Calvinism
16:47 Charismatic Movement
20:33 Eschatology/Millennium
21:31 Christian Zionism
22:18 LGBT Issues
27:42 Divorce and Remarriage
29:33 Sexuality
33:10 Abortion
35:39 Worship Style
37:06 Alcohol
37:53 Tithing
38:34 Israel
38:57 Polity
39:44 Church Offices
40:17 Apostolic Succession
41:14 Role of Women
41:34 Membership Trends/Statistics
As a long-time member of an ELCA congregation, my impression is that most of the older members hold to historic Lutheran theology, but the seminary professors and younger leaders seem to be trying to distance themselves from Lutheran orthodoxy and would prefer that the denomination become just another generic mainline progressive church that has gotten rid of its "Lutheran baggage."
ELCA is a blasphemous cult. It doesnt represent anything Lutheran or Christian...and the good Lord will have his revenge on them all.
Non of these debates going on at congressional/parish level out here ELCSA (Southern Africa). A more conservative bent is still assumed. But I think the levels of education might have something to do with it.
What could be more Lutheran than shaking up the orthodoxy?
you sound as though you’re against the more progressive churches, why is that? just curious, because i actually think a lot of lutheran churches need to expand on this inclusivity including the elca and not just lcms or anything. what i’ve observed in my church and many others with younger leaders is they think the history of more orthodox lutheranism is important to understand, but shouldn’t define how we practice it now as times do change. this is especially important, though, given that congregations with older beliefs and people truly are dying out, which i hate to see happen as i have a lot of love for this religion and the people in it.
@@normalizeappendicitis I am not "against" the more progressive churches per se, but I do think that there is a tendency to "reform" for the sake of reforming. For example, consider the doctrine of atonement. The Bible clearly uses language such as sacrifice, expiation, and propitiation -- at least those are the English translations of the original Greek, and most theologians have agreed with these concepts. Luther's writings combine elements of substitutional sacrifice and Christ the victor over Satan. In his commentary on Galatians, Luther wrote "He [Jesus] is not then a lawgiver, or a judge after the law; but in that He made Himself subject to the law, bearing the condemnation of the law, He delivered us from the curse thereby." "Progressive" Lutheran theologians say that we must stop talking about the crucifixion in terms suggesting that Jesus was in any way our substitute bearing the condemnation of the law, because that would be "cosmic child abuse." Instead, Jesus was killed for purely political reasons such as insulting the Jewish leaders, angering the Roman authorities, etc., or he allowed himself to be executed merely to demonstrate how much he loves us, as if that makes any sense. Another example is redefining sin as failure to realize our human potential. These are just two examples of how I think "progressive" theologians, Lutheran and otherwise, are re-interpreting biblical concepts to make them more palatable to themselves.
If Christ wasn't resurrected, then everything else is pretty much moot.
Side A Queer Christian here. Believe it or not, I agree.
In my ELCA church (like most of them) we definitely believe in the resurrection.
@@lukesoderbloom9905 Same. ELCA is a bit liberal for me, but it IS mainstream just as much as Missouri Synod is on the other side…
Do Jesus' teachings only have meaning within the context that he is divine? I don't think so
They might as well be in communion with the Unitarian Universalist Church
We should be. I'll check on it. I don't believe in closed communion. No human gets to decide who gets the body and blood of Christ.
@@langreeves6419 No Satanist, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, Muslim, Jew, Sikh, Gnostic, or pagan receive can the body and blood of Christ save they repent and turn away from that foolishness and believe in the one true, Living Triune God. They are either idolaters and/or heretics.
@Siervo de Dios * God can save whoever he wants to
I am not God and you are not God
We do the best we can
But we don't get to decide what God does
Are you really going to tell God that he cannot save a Hindu?
Are you gonna demand that you get to leave heaven because you find that a Muslim is there?
Have you thought this through
Are you going to be angry if there are not enough people in h***?
Are you familiar with the parable of the workers who joined the Very last minute?
@@siervodedios5952You should read the book of Jonah. Jonah believed God should not be merciful to Ninevah. Jonah was rebuked.
@@langreeves6419 We can't know who is going to be Heaven. Only God can read hearts.
With that said the bible says you need to believe that Jesus died for your sins and to be baptized.
If the people in the other posters mentioned religions don't believe in this then it's not what the Lord requires.
I certainly am not going to say they aren't going to be there. The Bible just says believe and be baptized.
Unless you are classifying Jesus Christ as a general "god" that all religions pray to the same god and details and beliefs besides a higher power are irrelevant.
Can any group that says the resurrection of Christ might not be literal be considered Christian?
No. They cannot.
Yes.
Absolutely there were Christians who believed that from the very beginning
@Swagmund_Freud666 yes, the Ebionites. Possibly the first followers of Jesus.
@@langreeves6419 They were Ebionites not Christians.
Btw epistle of Thessalonians is the first Christian document ever created and it wasn't made by the Ebionites.
Who else remembers the (E)LCA kids' videos of "Davey and Goliath"? Clay-mation was the bomb.
I watched some of those myself actually! They had a pretty upbeat rendition of "A mighty fortress is our God" at the beginning.
@@ReadyToHarvest Fun Fact: Hal Smith (the OG Mr. Whittaker) voiced Goliath.
LOL that was great
Loved em as a kid. Josh you are too young for Davey and Goliath!
Still love Davey and Goliath.
I can never understand those who say they believe in an all-powerful God but balk at miracles like the virgin birth or the resurrection. They say only ignorant Bronze Age peasants could believe that virgins can conceive or that dead people can return to life. But that' just it. No one in the Bronze Age believed they could, either. Thats the whole point. That's why they called it a miracle!
I agree. However, I just want to caution that some true believers are immature in their faith. Not everyone goes from Atheism/Agnosticism to believing in full blown miracles over night. I know I didn't. For some, like me, it was a gradual process, one that often begins, not ends, when one confesses their true belief that Jesus is Lord and truly died and rose so that we could have everlasting life.
However, this is why it's so important for churches to be very clear about their theology. I believe this is also why it's so important for Christians to go to church. Church is what helps one understand the importance of miracles like the virgin birth, but I believe the only miracle one needs to affirm to initially accept Christ is the resurrection, belief in the rest of the miracles in the Bible can and often do come later.
In fact, I remember when I started to truly affirm the rest of the miracles in the Bible. A friend of mine who I assumed believed in God surprised me when, after I explained the Christian apologetic argument for the resurrection as popularized by NT Wright and William Lane Craig, he asked me a question I wasn't expecting.
He asked, "so you're a Christian right? So you really believe Jesus walked on water?" I knew I affirmed Jesus' death and resurrection, and just explained why I could be confident in my belief in them, but I hadn't thought about Jesus walking on water. Some way, some how, it just came to me, and without even thinking, these words just came out of my mouth "well, I believe Jesus overcame death itself, walking on water is nothing compared to that." And right then, right there, I realized I did in fact believe in the rest of the miracles in the Bible. (I hope my friend found Jesus too, but I haven't seen him in ages since he moved away, he's a very kind person and clearly searching for the truth, in fact I should say a prayer for him right now probably, I'm sure he could use a prayer from anyone reading this as well)
Now there’s a group of young ELCA members called SOLA, they back orthodox Lutheran teachings and I think they seem worth taking a look at.
I've been a member of the ELCA for over 20 years and I feel that I belong here and my faith in Christ is strong.
I’m going to be starting my seminary studies in January and going to become a pastor in the LCMS, and it’s funny in that first paragraph she actually made the case as to why they need to drop the Lutheran from their name.
They would really just be better off merging with the PCUSA.
Im not even sure why they use the word Lutheran.
They are also in full communion with the Episcopal Church.
That pastor lady uses *good feelings* as a measure of what is good. Oh dear, feeling good is not necessarily a good thing. I think pastors should study philosophy as a requirement.
Maybe they should study the bible as a requirement?
@@Kali_Yuga_Surfer Yeah that much is obvious. But I guess it's too much to ask from a pastor nowadays eh.
She is No Pastor by any stretch of the imagination.
So if she not serving God right way Who does she serve?
God bless you!
You know old saying:With good intentions paved path to hell.
All American Evangelicalism is dedicated to GOOD FEELINGS! That whole "personal relationship" concept so popular in our culture is all about "good feelings".
"A Palestinian Feminist Reading of the Book of Jonah". What a title
My mother, brother and myself went to a WELS church at the time, my mom's boyfriend (who years later became my stepdad) went to an ELCA church at the time. I remember before service they asked if he could take communion with them but they said preferably not after he said where's he's a member of. I was puzzled by this because why would a Lutheran church deny another Lutheran communion? Now that I've researched what sets the ELCA apart from the WELS and LCMS, all I can say is...I get it.
That’s still ridiculous. The national ELCA leadership is very liberal, but its members are not.
@@fighterofthenightman1057 And that will most likely vary across the board from where one lives. Curiously; while by watching so many webcasts from a multitude of mainstream Churches, while I became with the impression that most of them are exactly the same thing, making in reality such a big single denomination, there is something on me starting to think that ultimately the ELCA is the one that stays more apart from the trend. Surely there are still the "old school" Parishes out there. Nothing to do on them rather than let those 75+ yo Parishioners to pass away, close the Church and sell the property afterwards. But there seems to be a new generation of ELCA Parishes elsewhere, especially on the "blue" states, usually led by a young woman, where things are starting to be different. They have plenty of kids on their services, they attract a quite young crowd to them and they are far out of the cultural wars of the last decades that are very far past them. RUclips is your friend, and some of said Parishes will be on first page of any related search.
Surely the mainstream Churches are shrinking now, but Christianity is sort of restructuring itself and redesigning at same time. I don't predict them to disappear by 2050 like some may think about. There seems to be a new life in the "underground".
@@nunagoras As an LCMS member I can say the beliefs are very different and the practice is becoming greater. The services used to be similar but things like drag queen story hour and the sparkle creed have popped up in ELCA churches.
@@run4cmt I was a WELS member and went to a local ELCA church and besides having a gay female pastor the service seemed very similar to the WELS church. Although some things felt a bit more like Roman Catholic it was similar.
I asked about communion and they said as long as I was baptized Christian I could attend. I only went once though and didn't do a Q&A about the details.
The ELCA is in full communion with the Episcopal Church too.
and that was the beginning of the End and the decline...and that whole gay and women culture clash. And the constant beating up of northern European based history of our churches...and the Baptist-like worship services we endure now.
Sic 😔
Both are off the rails.....
So.. in full communion with the syn**** of Satan.
Many of us who are Confessional would be happy to see the ELCA drop the L part.
Why?
@@williamhenning4320 The ELCA has abandoned historical Lutheran doctrine.
@@williamhenning4320 the ELCA largely supports theological positions that are not in line with the lutheran beliefs of biblical inerrancy, and also flat out disagree with much of the claims in the confessional doctrines of the small/large catechisms and the book of concord. the ELCA takes a much more metaphorical stance on many theological points that conservative lutheran denominations would see as heretical
But I've been a fan of Luther for decades, long before I became a member of the ELCA. Luther is a big deal among Baptist, he was big on salvation thru grace only. So I'd read 4 biographies of him, listened to an audio drama bio, and watched the major motion picture on him.
So I'm glad to finally be in the Evangelical LUTHERAN Church of America. But the main reason I like the church I'm in isn't the name Luther. They can use any name. I'm just happy to finally be in a church which follows scripture. Following the Bible is more important than the name of the church.
I think I like the name Lutheran because Luther preached sol scriptura.
The E, the L and the C need to go.
Seems that to the ELCA, God’s Word is merely a suggestion.
🎉🔥THANK YOU SO FOR THIS CHANNEL YOU INFORM PEOPLE THINGS THEY NEED TO KNOW THANK YOU !
Thanks for your in-depth research brother...GOD bless you...love and respect from India❤️🇮🇳🎉
God bless you too
@@a.kamileon 😊🙏
Thanks Vishal for the comment and you are welcome! Glad to have viewers in India. 👍
@@ReadyToHarvest Welcome Sir🎉😊👍
@@vishaldamai7652 as an Indian I can advice you to flee away from Churches like this one.
Great Video ! Informative ! I'm from a conservative ALC/LCA [Wisconsin/Chicago] family; I grew up or came to adulthood in the ELCA. I'm a conservative in the ELCA or a moderate/Lib in the in the LCMS. I like both. This video illustrates the educational debate on what a Lutheran/Christian "is". I have enjoyed Martin Luther's writings, sermons and opinions. His style seems like a cantankerous, opinionated spiritual lawyer ! I would appreciate his opinion on the video ! 🙂
Yet LCMS Lutherans care not in communion with 95% of the world’s Lutherans, won’t allow their pastors to pray with others and other oddities, while staying totally to themselves and no ecumenical ties to other Christians. There are plenty of conservative ELCA churches, and easy to try to portray all in both groups as uniformly following their parent orgs.
You should read his writings on Jews.
Oh, and the ELCA is a heretical organization.
Be well!
Luther was articulating what the early church fathers taught. He was not inventing a new faith. And he was very entertaining.
I would be interested in seeing a video on the Christadelphian church. Keep up the good work 👍
^ THIS!!!!
ruclips.net/video/AtSeAVBuDxc/видео.html
Do you know how this form of Lutheranism compares to the form of the state Lutheran church in Germany today? Believe it is also called Evangelical also?
Very thorough presentation of a complex and evolving subject.
ELCA needs to drop the Lutheran name.
And the title of Christian
@@patrickcooke4792 When there are churches in the ELCA who literally and formally worship Native American gods, buddha, embrace wiccinism, etc., then YES, they need to come out and say "we are no longer Christian" and admit it to themselves.
Why?
@@williamhenning4320 False branding
ELCA needs to drop the E, L, and C, because they do not preach the gospel, they are not Lutheran, and they are not Christian. But they are in America. So they're actually just A
Please do:
1 - Old Catholics (Union of Utrecht and others).
2 - GAFCON and independent Anglicans.
3 - Mormons (LDS church and the Community of Christ).
4 - Amish, Mennonites and Hutterites.
5 - Russian sects (Molokans, Doukhobors, Old Believers, Subbotniks).
6 - The Christian Community (Anthroposophy oriented church).
7 - Quakers.
I second the request for GAFCON, specifically the ACNA
I second the suggestion re: Utrecht (Old Catholics).
Grew up in an ELCA church, but did not accept Christ til I was an adult in an SBC church. Never understood what my old church believed back then. Certainly interesting to me now to look back on the teachings I was raised in, especially now being an SBC seminary student as well.
I grew up SBC, accepted Jesus at 11.
I joined the ELCA at 53.
Both both of you prove the balance of the universe
We're you 💤💤💤💤😴 every Eucharist?
ELCA is self worshiping Church, where the will of God doesn't matter or they don't believe in God.
Jesus loves you.
Give me LCMS any day! Thanks for the video!
Seriously though.
I have my differences with Martin Luther, but I respect the Missouri Synod. The ELCA is just heresy at this point, might as well be Unitarians
How can the ELCA even call themselves Lutheran?????
The church needs continual reformation.
The same way MAGA people do
@@richardsaintjohn8391 What do you mean? Define reform please. You yourself pose with a pride flag, when was that ever acceptable in the church!? When was that acceptable in the bible? Ohhh know, it was acceptable when you removed pages to your own liking as well as thre paul, the old testament, and the commandment of the Lord to the side. If you do not beleive that the whole bible is God's true word, His true command, and that He is creator and Lord over all then you have no buissness affiliating with any of God's Kingdom. And when did prsent day american ploitics even get into this? Im British lol!!!!
@@langreeves6419 PEople will always be sinful, but the Lord will save the ones who truely beleive in Him as their Lord and saviour
Easy! ELCA.
Thanks! Your vid made me decide to go from a disaffected mostly confessional old prayer book Episcopalian to a rather happy Lutherpalian, suspicious of Hippy liturgics and sacred art.
Ay I had a similar conversion! The doctrinal unity and historic consistency convinced me as I read the Book of Concord. I could not say the same with the 39 Articles, and even with their exclusion it felt like its intended doctrinal wiggle room eventually became too much where Tridentine Catholics, Prayer Book Catholics, Reformed or Wesleyan Evangelicals, Old High churchmen, and even Pentecostals are all part of the same tradition. As someone raised Catholic, rhe dominant Calvinist history of Anglicanism just did not jive with me lol
Granted, finding a liturgical ELCA church has been hard to find. European Lutherans would be horrified to see guitars and projector screens despite the Augsburg Confession's specific instruction to retain the Mass
my question would be, though, is how long will the context remain Lutheran---a supposed return to Apostolic Teaching---and avoid Catholic doctrine that was the Reformers biggest theological problem?
Please check this ministry. This is one of many that are true to The Bible and operating in power just as the book of Acts. ruclips.net/video/AtSeAVBuDxc/видео.html
I’m very proud to be part of the ELCA! ❤✝️
I’m just hoping they drop Luther’s name soon. Luther would blast them so hard...
They should drop the Christian pretense too. Christ would blast them so hard too ...
I don't believe Christ would but it is 100% antithetical to Luther. In fact they really are an Erasmus faith which was Luther's challenger. I prefer liberal Christianity, but I know Church history, it is not Lutheran.
They will eventually, Luther was a straight, white, man. He's the opposite of everything these people think is right.
Modern day Pharisees look to be running this show now…..hmm a fork in the road. Do we take this wide path or that narrow one ?
It would be nice if you could do one AFLC church
6:23 He didn’t breathe, he died and God resurected him 3 days later as Jesus hints in Matthew 12:39-40
Tarsis was in what is now south turkey so Jonah going to Tarsis by sea means he was in the Mediterranean sea so what is she talking about with Tiger and Euphrates?
People have been arguing where Tarshish is for 2000 years. Josephus argued that it was Tarsus, but others have argued that it's Carthage, Sardinia, or even Spain.
I personally like the idea that it's Spain the most since it implies Jonah was trying to flee to the edge of the known world to escape God, which is obviously impossible.
Regardless, like you I found that writing to be incredibly stupid. Jonah was a Jew, he would get on a boat in Judea to flee, not one in Assyria.
What's with all the tattoos?
ELCA is not a confessional Lutheran Church. They are just Episcopal with a different twist.
Pretty funny they define a "Mega" church as membership of 801 or more - that could be attendance of as little as 200. Church growth people often define a Mega Church as 2,000 or even 3,000 in average attendance.
It used to be 1,000. That's because one aim of CGM is to keep moving the goalposts, holding out even bigger numbers for a church to continually aspire to. More, more, more.
In Lutheran theology, the sacrament of communion is an essential aspect of worship. In a church with thousands of people in attendance it would be less practical for each person to be personally presented with the body and blood of Christ through the bread and wine at every worship service. Also, I think that Lutherans put an emphasis on a personal relationship between pastors and members. How many attendees at Joel Osteen's church would be able to call him at home and say "I'm having a spiritual crisis. Can I meet with you?"
@@sarco64 once a church gets past about 150 attenders it is important to have some form of small group structure begin. A system of people looking out for others and a pastoral care network. I think this is why most churches stay small. This network does not become formalized. In every large Protestant church I have been in there has been such a structure. While I started LCMS, I also spent some time at Menlo Park Presbyterian while at Stanford. My young couples’s Sunday school group of 50-70 couples broke down into covenant groups with a group steering committee which met with the youth and young families minister. That was a communications and pastoral care network. Nearly everyone in that church was connected in a covenant community (via a ministry or affinity group) or formed from temporary newcomer groups when first attending prior to membership.
I believe in some churches the pastors over these smaller groupings become communicant groupings. I don’t know-communion in megachurches was not meaningful to me. Communion in the seat generally not meaningful to me. Sunday service was not either. Only the Sunday school and covenant group…that was my church. I needed to return to liturgy and Eucharist!
Mega is not the answer, Jesus is the answer. I have landed Episcopal.
Seems like you can believe what you want in the ELCA.
people tend to believe anything they want regardless of what their religion is.
Just don’t expect your traditional views to be tolerated.
@@mj6493 Traditional views are tolerated. The real problem is that the "traditional views" don't tolerate other views. If traditionalists can't dominate others they claim they aren't tolerated.
I believe in the sacredness of the Python programming language
@@kitiowa that’s because there is such a thing as orthodoxy and heresy. Intellectual deception always follows moral rejection. When you reject biblical orthodoxy it’s because you want to justify your own selfishness
Seems the like the 'L' in ELCA is just a suggestion.
Same with the 'E"
Perhaps the only one true is the 'A'
Gatekeepers are a pain
@@kontoculai6301Nah, it only exists here due to globalist control. Unfortunately we can't say who that is, but Martin Luther sure knew.
That Nadia interview was really harsh to get through lol
ELCA is neither Lutheran nor Christian. I really wish they would change their name.
The level of contridiction in this belief system is mind blasting ...
Could you give some specific examples?
@@sarco64 treating gays humanely and not being rigidly dogmatic
@@andrewgeary9749so gay people should be treated inhumanely?? Is that what you think Jesus would have done??
@@akunna6338 I think he’s being sarcastic!
How can they even call themselves Christians??
Scandinavian Churches. Grew up in small town . Three Cuurches. Swedish Norwegian and German .
Is this church REALLY evangelical, or are they actually existentialist?
It depends on how you define "evangelical." The word is derived from a Greek word meaning literally "good news," or another English translation would be gospel. The term originally meant focusing on the pure gospel message of God's grace as revealed through the incarnation, life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus "for us and our salvation.," and thus salvation is purely on the basis of God's grace alone, received by faith alone, on account of Christ alone, without any contribution on our part. The term was originally applied to Lutherans during the Reformation. In American usage the term has come to be associated with a particular theology that emphasizes "decisional regeneration," that is, salvation via a born-again experience resulting from "making a decision for Christ," and an emphasis on persuading others to make such a decision.
We at the ELCA preach the good news, so that makes us evangelical
@Lang Reeves but here's the question, does the ELCA consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God? That's one way to define evangelical (Bible is infallible).
@Brother.M yeah. I know, I was in a church that was affiliated with ELCA. They do preach free grace theology (to believe in Jesus for Salvation). In that sense they are Christian, yet they have some reforming to do.
@Brother.M I don't expect them to be "evangelical." Literally anyone can call themselves Evangelical. The term is usually claimed by Non denoms and or Baptists.
Does the ELCA website automatically forward you to the Democratic Socialists and World Communists League? Could swear the perspectives presented are identical.
Very disturbing how the ELCA has moved away from it's Bible believing roots. Picking and choosing what in the Bible is believed is a slippery slope.
Every Christian to have ever existed picks and chooses l
This one is much longer than most denominational videos
yeah I wonder why? some are longish. this is one of the longest I recall
Because it’s not based on anything so they kinda just make it up as they go
it's longer because there is more to discuss, not easy for the simplistic audiences of today to understand quickly.
@@jewey1894 Exactly. Their beliefs are a free-for-all, so he can't summarize them quickly then say he represented them fairly.
Good list of church organizations to stay clear of.
You do such excellent and thorough work. Why don’t you do a few biographical videos detailing your own spiritual journey and convictions?
If you adhere to the culture rather than the scripture, then you will be constantly be chasing culture. Fool’s errand.
So True.
And that sex freak is their Spiritual Parent (Pastor).
The Tragedy of Apostasy.
"A feminist Palestinian interpretation of the Book of Jonah."
The moment you try and interpret religious texts through a modern, progressive lens, you're automatically discrediting yourself. Any interpretive lens is an eisegetical approach to a discussion that should be exegetical in nature.
How can they call themselves Lutheran?
Seems to me red wine would be more appropriate as long as it's kosher
I do like me some Confessions though
I was raised catholic and recently converted to the ELCA. So happy I did! I felt so welcomed from day one and felt like home. Thank you for your videos. Keep up the great work.
I mean no disrespect, but what prompted you to do that? It seems to me like the opposite is more often the case.
@@superduck6456 I was ELCA once and when they adopted the ten suggestions then I left to the Catholic Church. 4th degree Knight also.
Meant to add my name..Royce Wilson.
@superduck6456 Women pastors, open to lgbtq and a more liberal stance on abortion. I really did try to stay Catholic... I even went to catholic youth camp a few times... at different places and more or less all of them said all the lgbtq and women who have chosen an abortion are going to hell. VERY fear mongering and I didn't like that. Maybe that's not the case for everyone.
37:45 Why would a "church" be making any investments in anything??
Presumably if they got more money in offerings than they need currently, it could make sense to tie it up in investments to help it retain or increase its value until it is needed, rather than sit on it and slowly lose value to inflation or spend it in unsustainable expansion.
@@Lex_Araden I don't know what I think about that. It seems that it crosses the line from "good stewart" to "serving two masters." But thr big red flag for me is -- how can they invest it they're tax-exempt? That doesn't seem right...
The Lutheran pastor when we joined the church after moving was a former Catholic priest. He said he liked that the ELCA gives you "freedom of faith", i.e., not as strong in orthodox beliefs.
Well at least a pastor in the Lutheran or most other Protestant churches can marry. Many Catholics become Protestant due to redundant and old fashioned beliefs like that. I’m a former Catholic that saw ‘the light’ and hypocrisy of Roman Catholicism. I knew that no Pope or his bishops would ever give me what truth I’ve been searching for.
When you stand for nothing you will believe anything.
Freedom of false doctrine and invented interpretation to serve one's own sins, yeah. Shameful. Also, many comments being hidden but still in the reply count. Why? Ask who controls media and censorship and what real Lutherans might be trying to say 😉
I love being part of the ELCA! I will say, I find the thumbnail of this video to be... an interesting choice, when looking at comparable thumbnails of videos on other denominations from this channel.
You might as well be a Unitarian 😂
What's the difference between ELCA and UMC? I'm thinking United Methodist are a bit less liberal than most ELCA churches but it's hard to tell.
Sounds like some ELCA churches are alt left with blessing dogs (California) to others holding a bit more in the middle and not so left leaning.
If you don't know that's okay. I'm trying to find a church more in the middle I'm thinking locally it's UMC or the ELCA.
It's a great example of how this is a false doctrine and especially false Lutheranism.
This sounds like Christianity-flavored atheism.
Welcome to Progressive Christianity: the pitstop on the way to apostasy.
@@tayh.6235 What utter hogwash. It is disgusting statements like that that make apostasy the attractive option. Why would one want to stay in Christianity when people like you make such assertions.
@@kitiowa you can certainly make such a reply, but am I wrong? I would hope people are seeking truth not nicety regardless of what conclusion they come to.
@@tayh.6235 Yes you are wrong.
@@TwizzElishus Regressive Christianity is disgusting. Expecting Christianity to be without intellectual integrity in the face of reason will ultimately fail.
Übersetzen Sie bitte Ihre Videos auf Deutsch oder Russisch. Gott mit uns ✝️! Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Deutschland 🇩🇪.
Wenn jemand Untertitel für die Videos in einer anderen Sprache machen wollte, würde ich das akzeptieren, aber ich spreche nur Englisch.
If someone wanted to subtitle the videos in a different language I would accept that, but I only speak English.
@@ReadyToHarvest I can translate but I don't know how to edit videos.
Ich war in Deutschland bei der USAF eingesetzt. Meine Frau verliebte sich in die Evangelische Kirche nachdem sie Worms besuchte. Als wir wieder in den USA waren, wurden wir (die ganze Familie) Mitglieder der Kirche.
ELCA isn't a church, it's an ecclesial body for those who want "religious" community that lets them weasel around to anything they choose.
Bingo.
It's a church for people who want to follow God. I'm so glad God caused the ELCA to be formed.
@@langreeves6419 Yep. Want to follow God, but being led by Satan.
@@lawrencelenerd3988 I'm sorry to hear that. I thought you might be having a problem. I didn't understand that Satan was leading you.
Please. Come to the ELCA. We will help you find God as your leader instead of satan.
@@langreeves6419 Missouri Synod keeps with scripture. ELCA keeps up with Alistair Crowley.
Nice try at doing what you folks do best tho
The description of what this denomination believes in their own words about their own scriptures gets more depressing the further along it goes…
Ah, Nadia Bolz-Webber, a fascinating figure. I understand both side about her, I can completely understand why some find her incredibly off putting. That said I can also understand why a lot of people love her.
I myself am rather indifferent about her.
A first impression of her is that she likes to shock people, like a teenager going thru a woke, rebellious phase.
I subscribed to her blog for awhile, as she had some generally good things to say, but once she started straying waaaaaaay off with the sexuality thing, I bailed. I guess if you have an ambivalent belief about the veracity of the Bible, then you can make up whatever you want and call it "truth".
9:28 pastor's boss: "you will get 4000$ a month"
Pastor: "thank you"
Boss: "dont ask if it's real. That is the wrong question."
Pastor: "but....."
And they’ve gone completely apostate.
I am a Lutheran from India belonging to NWGEL (North Western Gossner Evangelical Lutheran ) Church. Theologically, it was as conservative as WELS church in America. But due to bad leadership, few years back it has start ordaining women. This is just the start of compromising with the word of God.
But, that doesn't mean, I agree with my church position in this regard. It's just that I am stuck because of the cultural issue and also, there is not much Lutheran option available for me to choose.
Please check this ministry. This is one of many that are true to The Bible and operating in power just as the book of Acts. ruclips.net/video/AtSeAVBuDxc/видео.html
Begome ordodogs :D
I don't have words for this madness. God have mercy on us all
Just think how conservative-confessional Lutherans feel when our neighbors see headlines like "Lutherans Affirm Gay Marriage" and mistakenly assume we have something to do with it. Not fun.
Which part of their doctrine do you see as "madness"?
@@quinnwhittaker5472 One part is that a non-historical view of the Resurrection is a valid view in this denomination.
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1 Corinthians 15:12-19
Also, at 18:12 , the quote of that pastor is contradicted by v19
@@quinnwhittaker5472 (1) Bible has errors (2) ELCA believes homosexual acts are not sinful (3) ELCA ordains women contrary to scripture. There are more, but I won't belabor the point.
God has bestowed a great mercy upon us: God inspired the formation of the ELCA.
The ELCA is post Christian
Just watched this again, and I have to say … Joshua, you deserve a better comments section! This channel is about LEARNING about different denominations, not judging them. How many Mainliners do you see spamming your videos on evangelical videos critiquing their theology? Probably only me from time to time as the only one ever fighting back! Keep up the great work, and I hope your channel continues to draw more moderate, even-tempered and considerate followers to help drown out some of these combative fanatics.
Amen, it's so depressing seeing these radtrad zealots representing the face of our Faith to the entire world
Is this video real??? I was confirmed Lutheran in 1993, and this video is not what I remember at all!!
I am a part of a ELCA church. It’s quite a bit more conservative than this video makes it out to be
if you have woman pastors or acceptance of gays in absolutely no way can you be considered conservative or really even christian.
When your Systematic Theology states clearly that the Bible "CONTAINS" God's Word, you are in no way, shape or form a Conservative Denomination or really even a Christian Church. Leave that apostasy and seek out a WELS Pastor to speak to.
@@Kali_Yuga_Surfer No true Scotsman.
@@MRTOWELRACK she is in direct contradiction of scripture.
People who deny Christ as the messiah aren't Christian.
You: that's a no true Scotts man fallacy.
A denomination that approves of the homosexual lifestyle and women pastors, it is apostate. A denomination that won't discipline pastor who is a foul-mouthed boastful fornicator is a denomination I want nothing to do with. Maybe your church is more conservative than the denomination. Maybe your church should leave the denomination.
BOB_EDC NO! Perhaps the Lutheran church you attend should drop the Lutheran name.
Could’ve just summed it up by saying they aren’t Christian or Lutheran.
Any software program that uses the same inputs and generates different outputs is modeling insanity.
In the metaphor the inputs are the information we, as humans, have access to at the time.
Not Lutheran. Marginally Christian.
People ask why we don't hear more about possession and demonic stuff like in the time of Christ, but I think the devil has become more subtle in recent years in his attempts to destroy our faith. Let him or her with ears hear.
Lord Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.
Why would he do something supernatural? That would hurt the rise of atheism/secularism/naturalism (including among "Christians") which is going so well for him.
I like how when they deny "Christian zionism" they don't mean the Christians who are huge supporters of Israel, but instead they deny that Christ will actually come back and destroy the wicked. Classic use of a phrase that isn't liked to hide that they're denying the Second Coming of Christ to judge the living and the dead.
Do they believe that eventually everyone will get into Heaven?
@@tjjones-xj7kq Not all of them do, but a bunch do. The problem with the ELCA is they don't have any standard of what they believe, so some believe radically different things than others.
@@gerrardthemagnificent5960 Thanks for the reply! That makes sense I was at a service once and they said something about eventually or in time regarding Heaven and I was confused.
I was raised it's Heaven or Hell no eventually anything. Glad you made that point and I hear it varies depending on the pastor. Almost seems like members could be jumping ship every time there is a new pastor who may alter things a bit. Have a good Sunday!
"To ask why some people are saved and others damned is to display the pride so characteristic of humanity's sinful condition, the unwillingness to let God be God." 16:34
You know who else didn't simply "let God be God," Michael Stoltzfus? Our father Abraham in Genesis 18. "It would be sacrilege for You to do such a thing, to destroy the righteous with the wicked; it would be sacrilege for You! Shall the Judge of all the earth not do justice?"
I'm sure Martin Luther is most pleased..
Lcms member here. I don't think Martin Luther would be pleased with the ELCA.
Yeah NO!
I think Luther was smart enough to know that the church would need continual reformation.
@@langreeves6419
Reformation is foreign to Christian Ecclesiology as it is intrinsically linked to Christology.
Reformation=Atheism.
@Acekoala45 well, that's an interesting opinion
So anytime a church is in error, they aren't allowed to correct it?
I need reformation everyday. Jesus continually makes all things new.
Classical religious liberalism not that there's anything wrong with that
But there is. It's in their own scripture that they ignore.
Who needs the Bible when you can make up your own religion?
Bravo!!!
Heard of Father Martin 😅
Are these guys serious?? And I thought we couldn’t get worse than the Episcopalians!
ikr
ELCA Lutherans: challenge accepted 😉
LOL. I agree.
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
Please check this ministry. This is one of many that are true to The Bible and operating in power just as the book of Acts. ruclips.net/video/AtSeAVBuDxc/видео.html
*Sapient Wisdom* Within its prejudiced pages *a fractional some* of the Bible’s history is true, but then *so are all the other scrolls and tablets that were NOT included;* these tell a very different story. Who decided that and why?
that's a field of study all its own, the canonization of scripture. see bart ehrman "lost christianities, the battle for authentication" at Great Courses.
@@watcherwlc53 Also John Hamer at Centre Place has some good lectures on other Christian scriptures and early forms of Christianity.
@@watcherwlc53 as you have quoted Bart, do you know Bart believe the epistle of Thessalonians as the first Christian document ever created .
Heresies like Gnosticism and paganism infiltrating the church are not to be included in the Bible.
Matthew 7:15-16
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?"
Yes, beware of the false prophets of conservatism.
I rather for me Missouri synod.
Largest doesn't make them the authentic one. They're in open defiance of base scripture, let alone Lutherna doctrine.
That lady claiming to be a padtor, proudly swearing like a sailor and openly promoting her sin as "good for the soul" is so sickening.
Changing what the bible says will not change where you spend eternity.
I’ve always said that a Christian sect’s true theology isn’t what is contained in its official “book of discipline,” but what is tolerated in its ranks with impunity. The ECLA is a prime example, especially with the statements made by that witch Nadia.
Who was there with Jesus in the Garden of Gastheneme? To witness any of it?
Everyone was sleeping 😴 right?
And He was arrested shortly thereafter?
If Jesus is God? Why cry at all?
Would God be scared to die??
Same with his interrogation
Who witnessed it when everyone had ran?
No one saw it
Right?
How do you pass on an account when he was taken to the Cross ❌
Wow, that woman "pastor" is unbelievable! The church is doomed if this is where it's heading.
I believe Hell is where that 'pastor' is going and leading others to.
31:38 or they would be forced to be faithful to the Christian teaching
Not Lutheran (communes with anyone, reject Lutheran Confessions), not a church (business), Not Evangelical (spends more on home staff than missions), but they are IN America. Very sad how they bring so many with them to the lake of fiew.
Worship at the foot of the Bible or the Jesus?? I chose Christ
where does the Jesus you think you know come from if not scripture?
@@willy9204sound like maybe he's one of these "Jesus was a liberal who loved and would have blessed the 'marriage' of sodomites" types like 99% of the comments supporting this "church". But maybe I'm wrong. His statement doesn't make much sense though.
@@Nobody-zq8bl Sola Scriptura otherwise no authority these people want to follow feelings not God they know nothing of Jesus
Once you decide the Bible is not inerrant, and not God's Word but only contains God's Word, it allows you to pick and choose what to accept. With that the death spiral begins.
The old and new testaments contradict each other all the time. There is no way to interpret the Bible in a totally consistent way. This is why we have reason. If god though the Old Testament was complete, or that humanity had enough information, our salvation through Christ and his teaching would be unnecessary. So one must take the teachings of Christ and apply them with reason and empathy.
Acting like you can’t be a good or proper Christian without being a Biblical literalist is nothing short of anti-brain.
Smorgasbord church
What is the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA)? In a word, apostate.
Good for those 424 Parishes. Good for the NALC.
This is the best Cringe Compilation channel on RUclips.