Does that mean the easy life is posting condescending RUclips comments to sarcastically validate your superior taste while listening to the latest obscure indie band that Pitchfork told you to like?
I'm 58 years old. I read Infinite Jest last month. Thankfully I knew next to nothing about David Foster Wallace or Infinite Jest or the blah, blah, Bulls%&t surrounding the book. I thought it was fantastic. I couldn't care less what other people think about the book or people who read it. I enjoy your channel. Keep up the good work !
@@reticuli4314 I have been reading all my life so that probably has something to do with it. Also I took up Buddhist Meditation ( Zen Tradition ) a quarter century ago. Best of luck friend, Peace.
@@reticuli4314 Depends on the person I guess. I got pretty bad ADHD but I find reading IJ quite therapeutic because the chaotic imagery reminds me of how my brain works.
I suffer from clinical depression. My debt to Wallace is that he, also a sufferer, was able somehow to convey with English what one of the most painful, baffling and lonely diseases to have is like. The stuff about Kate Gompert, suicide like being trapped in a burning building, depression as "a sort of double bind in which any/all of the alternatives we associate with human agency - sitting or standing, doing or resting, speaking or keeping silent, living or dying - are not just unpleasant but literally horrible"... I love and mourn him because his work eased my suffering a little bit where electroshock, ketamine, fifty different antidepressants and therapy did nothing. I love him like an end-stage cancer patient loves morphine.
SCRØLL SERPENT “I love him like an end-stage cancer patient loves morphine.” That is brilliant. Thank you for your post. Hope life is going well for you now.
I learned while reading this book that it's not one of those things to feel cocky or boast about it. Its just simply grows on you so goddamn much that by the end your life gets really postmodern.
Perfectly succinct explaination for the individual experience. Thanks for reminding us all that the joy of reading something that resonates with us is not the forum for ego competition.
I love this book. His talk of anhedonic depression was shattering. His discussion about the addict's mind was the first time I could relate my alcoholism to someone. Interestingly enough, DFW was in AA. I'm just over a year sober. I love the way DFW uses language and paints vivid images and scenes. Thank you for the video! I've subbed.
i have never been much of a reader, but you saying “his discussion about the addict’s mind was the first time i could relate my alcoholism to someone” will probably be the reason i make an effort to read, starting with this one (might be a mistake since it’s apparently hard to read lmao) i’m also a kind of ex alcoholic, had lots of self control issues during high school. haven’t had a bad night in a long time, 5 months i would say & overall im in a great mind place, but still not sure what went wrong back then, and never been able to relate my troubles to someone or something else. excited to dive into this & see what it’s all about. thank you
Never believed audiobooks were a good idea. I've been a truck driver for four yrs now and finally gave in. I'm over halfway through listening to infinite jest and LOVE it, but I do acknowledge that I'd have never made it through just reading it
0:55 Infinite Jest gets a "hard knock" 1:48 Why do people love _Infinite Jest_ ? + Unlike any other reading experience + Efforts to understand were rewarded + Helps people with struggle 2:30 Why do people dislike the book and its readers? - Female, Older, 20 something beards, 3:54 - Too Much Hype Machine 4:34 "I get more and more less interested in it" 5:11 Irony has become an ugly beast, battling enthusiasm 6:47 Vulnerability, growth, motivation
In all honesty, my personal experience with people from both within and without the academia is that Infinite Jest (and Wallace in general) are absurdly *adored* nowadays. The amount of academic literature on his writing churned out every yeard is unbelievable - it's actually getting kinda hard to find scholars of contemporary American Literature who DON'T study Wallace. At the university where I took my MA at, 3 out of 3 people who research c. American lit for a living (either as PhDs or professors) are working on David Foster Wallace. My supervisor's going to a conference in Bloomington this year where people are gona be interviewed because they were once in the same room as Wallace (!!!). I think I've met something like three people in my whole life who were or became skeptical about the book, and only one who disliked it, but she admittedly never finished it. The kind of "hate" you mention is only a natural reaction to this tendency I think, and as you justly said in the video, some people are going to hate the book just because it sounds cool to do so. One last thing, and this is gonna sound dicky, and I know you've got lots on your reading schedule so take this as a humble suggestion, but I do think you should check out Pynchon's Bleeding Edge to get a view from "the other side" of the whole irony VS sincerity debate. Great video as usual btw ;)
Ah, the man myth and legend himself, the Bookchemist :). I think you raise an interesting-as-always point. I hadn't really considered how my academic experience fits into the academic experience at large.In my department currently the anti-DFW wave is a strong one, though that's always struck me as a little absurd because the general academic tides are not turning that way, like you mentioned. I've also run into a good amount of people who, like you said, are churning out stuff on him... but, on the other hand, I've seen a few departments who are almost waging war. I might be in a bubble here :) (And actually, I'm about 90% sure I'm going to be going to that conference next year. I know some people presenting papers, and one of them even comments on my videos sometimes! RUclips is cool.) Oh good, another difficult 400-500 page novel to get through ;) no I'll take your recommendation very seriously. I start Gravity's Rainbow today, actually as soon as I get done answering comments, so this feels like an auspicious occasion. Bleeding Edge is definitely on my radar now. Thanks for, once again, an excellent and thought-provoking comment :)
Hi, have you heard of: X Man by Michael Brodsky. . . . . and if so, would you review it? It confuses me and I'd love to hear your thoughts! Thanks from the little state of Delaware!
I’ve wanted to read Infinite Jest for a few years but the sheer size terrifies me. Lockdown may be the excuse I need to give it a go. Thanks for the video!
This was like reading Ulysses, Gravity's Rainbow, or The Sound and the Fury for me... So difficult... DEMANDED outside research, before reading but also WHILE reading and AFTER finishing it to really begin to get to a place where you could start to appreciate it. Like Ulysses, Gravity's Rainbow or The Sound and the Fury, with Infinite Jest ALL of your efforts as a reader are rewarded. With this book (and with those other works) you are carried away through an experience that is incomparable. It's not so much "reading" as it is a "software update". Most people still running on Windows 97.
"It's not so much "reading" as it is a "software update". Most people still running on Windows 97." This is trite but also very much true. I'm in a life situation right now when I've felt for a couple of weeks now like I have to re-read the book again (I'm in a need of a middle size-ish software update), but I also somewhat dread the process.
I have just picked up Infinite Jest for the first time, and decided to listen to a few interviews with David Foster Wallace to get a feel of who he is as a writer, as I have yet to read any of his work, as well as to prime myself for diving into this piece. I did not watch your review video, or any review on it for that matter, as I had no interest in hearing what others thought about the book, because I wanted to enter the mind of the writer and get lost, that is until I came across this video. Two hours ago I had posted on facebook that I was about to embark on this journey, and immediately was met with criticism in the same spirit as you mention. It literally felt as if they were spitting in the face of this book and anyone who showed any interest in reading it. So I too asked myself why? Thank you for making this video.
That's a great breakdown of the phenomenon, Ryan. First of your videos that I've seen and I really appreciated it. I had the good fortune to come upon Infinite Jest in total innocence and ignorance. Introduced to DFW by my 20 year old son, I decided to read one of his books to better understand said progeny. First one I found- Infinite Jest (a nice 20th anniversary edition). Written the year my son was born (though it was published in '96 and my son was born in '95, I think it's safe to say that a portion of it was written the same year as my son's birth), by a man born the same year I was born (and we both grew up in the Midwest). And I currently live in the area where most of the book takes place. So aside from everything else about the book, there was a multi-faceted personal aspect to it. Am I a raving DFW/IJ fan? No. Am I fascinated by the mind of someone who can write Infinite Jest and Incarnations of Burned Children? Yes. Was I riveted, annoyed, amused, bored, entertained, moved, creeped out, excited, educated, and touched by this book? Many times all of the above. Screw the hype- folks, if you don't want to read the book, don't read it. But if you're going to not read it because of other people's enthusiasm you should examine your priorities. And if you're going to judge it or the people who like it without reading it- come on, really?
Oh man, I am immediately hitting that subscribe button. I started reading Wallace some four years ago and have since become a legitimate fan of IJ and Wallace's non-fiction, and what happened when I first finished the book and went online the massive backlash against it completely dizzied me. Because a lot of it felt so unanimous, it drove me mad trying to figure out where do I put myself in that rhetoric as a female fan of a book which had been publicly-declared as the despised prerogative of the 20-something-philosophy-major-fuckboi. All I could hear in my head was the screaming voices of mean people being all like, "Omg you're a sensible *woman* why are you reading this?" and worse "Are you deliberately trying to subvert gender expectations by reading this?" So hearing your lucid take on this has been quite reassuring for me. THANK YOU.
People hated and still hate Blood Meridian. People hated and still hate Moby Dick; people hated and still hate Shakespeare's plays; people hated and hate The Waste Land, and The Cantos, and Ulysses. All real readers read in the expectation that their time spent will be rewarded, and when someone reads a tough book he wants to feel the time was worth it. IJ takes effort, and the first time I read it through, I found myself totally confused, but in spite of that, laughing my ass off at an endnote, or an anecdote told by one of the characters, or saddened by another character. There were little payoffs in spite of the difficulty. But I also felt that like every good book I have read, the second reading was going to be much better. I had the lay of the book's land somewhat in my head. It was so good the second time. And then the third time it was even more remarkable. By this time I knew the characters, I could follow the chronological jumps. I found it a novel whose dividends of pleasure got better every time I read it. And for me that is the gold standard of what a really great book has. The fourth reading was like the once a year meeting with those friends or family members who give us sheer joy while in their presence. We have all had the experience of re-reading a novel we loved on the first read, only to find that on the subsequent reading it didn't hold up at all. We saw the tricks, felt the flat parts. Again, as Lewis once famously said, "The first reading of a book satisfies our lust for narrative [in Wallace that is only barely true]; it's the subsequent readings that reveal the true gems."
As of writing, I have read 60 pages of Infinite Jest but really it felt like 150 or 300 easily. So close to dropping it but this video helped convince me to push on. Hope you are doing well, wherever you are today.
Did you finish? I still remember the exact scene I fell in love with it. And the second I finished it, I flipped it over and started it again. It has everything.
I serendipitously brought a copy of Infinite Jest with me while checking myself into a psychiactric facility for suicidal ideation, depression, and anxiety years ago. Needless to say it spoke to me. I didn't even know about David Foster Wallace's struggles with the same issues at the time. For those reasons, I'll never not know what it's like to be profoundly and positively impacted by that work. Nevertheless, I've never gushed or ranted about it. It's too big a can of worms. I should revisit it soon.
the people that hate infinite jest hate it precisely for the harsh truth it speaks about irony. their whole person is an amalgam of ironic disengagement. it is like the book is calling them a worthless bum. ofc they will hate.
As someone who was an early life opiate addict, the ending of infinite jest resonated hard and I thought really communicated (in my limited vocabulary) the feeling of feeling nothing at all and the embracement of scenery and strange serenity. Therefore it was hard for me to believe that DFW didn't use opiates but I want to take his word for it and applaud whatever research he did.
I have no idea why anyone would hate Infinite Jest. I'm reading it for the second time, and I'll probably keep reading it after that because it is so rich. Also, you can listen to it read as an audiobook on RUclips. Only problem is, the audiobook does not include footnotes, so best to read the book first. I read it one summer when I was dog sitting, and now I read it when I turn off my electricity to save energy.
You hit the nail on the head with how irony is in today's day and age: "Irony looks straight into the face of enthusiasm, spits, and then says I choose to remain cooler than you - I choose not to engage in your vulnerable enthusiasm, instead I am going to remain safe and keep my distance." WELL SAID!!
I really like the prose-style of Infinite Jest and the hyper-detailed fictional world, but at times the characters are brittle and shallow, the scenes a little contrived and it does seem like he was, at times, unable to resist the compulsion to gratuitously exhibit his intellectual prowess.
@@Seamythief I agree; but there is a difference between not playing down your smarts, and doing everything in your power to create the sense that you are an untouchable super-genius, particularly when this comes at the expense of the reader's time. I really like certain sections of Infinite Jest, but many seem unnecessarily long and tedious. Interestingly, I think the less complex sections are generally the best, and I think that is because he had a more developed understanding of what he wanted to say in those sections and didn't feel he had to puff them up.
In some ways I would actually agree there are sections which do fly by my head from the sheer complexity of them but I think part of why the book is regarded as so great is simply to observe the extent of what the human mind can do in the same way we appreciate sculptures and what not, that being said I can still understand why it comes of as pontificating but each to their own
That’s an interesting point about Infinite Jest being a demonstration of human achievement. I hadn’t thought of that and yes, that probably is part of the appeal. By coincidence I’m 600 pages into Infinite Jest at the moment and this conversation has inspired me to push through and complete it.
DUDE I feel a sense of kindredness watching this video, from seeing your enthusiasm for this amazing book / enthusiasm for the meta nature of that comment / enthusiasm for enthusiasm. What a thrill to know there are others like me. Keep up the awesome videos.
I know it's probably not scientifically verifiable, but I would love to know how many of the people who are dismissive of "Infinite Jest" have actually read "Infinite Jest." I've long been puzzled by the weird backlash against DFW, which seems to center on "bros" and frat boys being fans, or something like that. I'm not sure. But it definitely seems more to do with readers or fans than the work itself, which, despite its reputation as a "hip" book, or a funny/snide book, actually contains quite a bit of very deep sadness and trauma and despair. I've found myself having to defend DFW to people, some very smart people, because they've received this notion that he was a hip, ironic writer, and I just don't see it. If anything he was a very sincere writer who constantly wrestled-in writing and in interviews-with the problems inherent in both sincerity and irony. But, like all things, I imagine ultimately that his work either speaks to you or it doesn't. For me, it spoke to me from day one. I believe he was one of the most remarkable writers of the second half of the twentieth century.
That section of infinite jest about the idea that sentimentality is childish and so we seek casual detachment was my favorite part. It just rings so true and says so much about our culture. Glad you made this video and hope it leads more people to question their prejudices against reading it and against those who love it.
thanks for the support :) and for the comment. It's a thing I think about constantly, and perhaps at an unhealthy level: if I, a twenty something man who loves to sound smarter than he actually is, want to talk about this book without also reaffirming stereotypes, how the hell can I do it??? The only possible answer (though I'm open to new ones) is with something approaching vulnerability/sentimentality.
I submit that those who say they hate Infinite Jest haven't read it. I probably wouldn't have read it if not for feeling alone while working abroad, but I'm so glad I did. I am far from what you'd call an academic but I have read a lot of books from various genres and Infinite Jest is hands down the best novel I've ever read.
I think part of it is that Infinite Jest is essentially about the ways the culture atomizes us and argued that what people really need is sincerity and connection. The type of audience that infinite jest is best for is probably alcoholics/addicts/depressive young men with a decent sense education. A lot of women don’t want to date that guy, but the book is trying to correct these things
i'm halfway through the book now, and I am too immersed and hooked to imagine hating it...unless it winds up pulling a last episode of dallas or sopranos sendoff.
Consider the Crawfish David Foster Wallace wrote a piece once called “Consider the Lobster”. I view this book and his writing a lot like eating crawfish which resemble little lobsters. When you eat crawfish, you get a plate piled high of about a hundred crawfish. You have to work really hard to shell the each crawfish to get a little teeny piece of meat, and then you have to do it again and again and again about a hundred times just to get the equivalent amount of meat you get from one lobster tail. I view reading Infinite Jest like eating crawfish. A whole lot of work for a little meat. The meat is good, but it’s not extraordinary. It’s meat that you can find in greater quantities in more accessible places. I feel like the book itself was what it’s title suggests, an “Infinite Jest”. Purposely long, purposely ‘never-ending’ basically “infinite”, and a joke on the reader, especially those who put on the airs of intellectual and philosophical superiority because they read and could appreciate this book that is not accessible to or liked by many people. In the end, the joke was on him because that’s is what he ultimately was doing by writing such a book, look at how much smarter I am than everyone else that I can write such a long and intricate book that’s inaccessible to these small brained people. It is the height of arrogance and a need for an approval by the very society and culture that you’re critiquing and exposing in you book. That want and need for approval and accolades from people and society that he truly disdained may have what led to him taking his own life.
One reason D.F.W. is one of my favorite writers is that I don't always agree with him. The other is that he could flat out write. Just like Hendrix could play...
Perhaps writers and readers love IJ because it pushes what we know "the novel" to be . . . forward towards that big black hole at the center of our galaxy. Bolano did it with 2666. Pynchon and Cervantes and Melville and V. Woolf and so many others have done it. Many visual artists, musicians, conductors, as well. I am both a writer and an avid reader and adore IJ but hardly ever talk to anyone about it. And when they ask if I would recommend it, I usually say: No. I don't actually know why I say no....maybe I feel this book needs to be found by readers, not pushed on them? I don't honestly know, but I cannot think of anyone in my life that I would recommend this to. One thing I can agree with, as far as the haters go: I cannot stand people that drone on and on about IJ--either way. I read it in the early mornings of one month last year and I felt it was a private experience that I so thoroughly enjoyed. And that's it. It's that simple. Nothing more complicated than that.
I think the reason why people say that infinite jest is a red flag isn't bc the boy won't stop talking about it. It's been compared to fight club where a large amount of people who think it's their favourite book took away the wrong and a dangerous message from it and they've taken it into their personal philosophy. Not accusing you of that but just thought I'd clarify :)
I’ve not read the book, and have only in the past few years become aware of David Wallace. I’ve read some of his short works, watched a few interviews and become aware of the larger social narrative as it relates to him. I find him interesting and insightful, and perhaps a bit put-off from so many questions directed to him about that which he sees as obvious. I wonder, was he as well known and discussed prior to the time his life ended? For whatever reason(s) far too often the geniuses are not fully embraced during their own lifetimes. Anyhow, for whatever number of reasons one might “hate” this book, perhaps on that list could be included the particular kind of subtle intellectual snobbery that is sometimes associated with such monumental works. Often I find myself an interloper in a group I would otherwise have an affinity with simply because I have not read the book. It creates me as an “outsider” to the erudite “insider” group (which is typically an “outsider” group as viewed in context to the larger society) who knows the book and can discuss it at length. It’s a terrible feeling of course. I discovered a similar dynamic with “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” only to further ascertain that once I had read the book, I still continued to be an outsider in groups which had already formed on their notion of the book & series. In that regard my experience was that so-called “outsiders” from the larger social norms will do likewise to others, while at the same time heralding their own “outsider” status as a kind of badge of honor. Presenting that one hates the book has the effect of diluting the rejection, and in return creating an “insider we-hate-the-book” group vs. the “insider we-love-the-book“ group‘s struggle to find a place within the larger society. In that way the dislike of the book is less about disliking a book that spans 900 pages - at least some of which must have been interesting and likeable for nearly everyone - and more about something deeper. In those instances, it all seems pretty mundane and conventional, yet fascinating and a dynamic that probably only supports the proposition(s) that Wallace is trying to present.
I'm reading it for the first time and 100 pages in. I will say it is very challenging and annoying at parts but also rewarding enough that I need to see it through.
I watched your review of Infinite Jest, after stumbling on a bunch of DFW stuff on youtube, then upon your review and looking up what he'd written... So long story short, I borrowed Infinite Jest from my local library and I've got about 20 days left to finish reading it. I'm probably about 1/9 of the way through and well, so far, so good. I'd certainly recommend it at this stage, I'd recommend it to just about anyone. The other thing is, besides the "hate" that happens when anyone is enthusiastic (certainly guilty of projecting that onto people in the past... silly me) I've noticed folks talking about the book hating it... I dunno because they're... just not picking up what he's putting down. Which is fair enough I suppose. People avoid all kinds of difficult yet rewarding things for EXACTLY THE SAME REASON. Anyways, Thanks for the reviews and the coolio friendly manner, and I'm sure plenty of introductions to good reading. Have a nice one and God bless, cheerio
I've only just started reading it. Came across Wallace via RUclips, and don't remember him from the nineties. I'm 150 pages in, mostly lost. I've annotated it and have books on it. His style is interesting but I can't tie it together much. Surely Fifty Shades of Grey is the most despised book of the last twenty years? p.s. Drop the phrase "mansplain" please. It's anti-male.
As far as why strangers feel aversion towards those that are fascinated by this book, I think, by extrapolating from most human interactions, that we have a gut/intuitive reaction towards dominated strangers. This seems to be what happens when someone becomes absorbed by an idea, another person, an emotion, an ideology, etc. Inherently, it shows weakness. In this case, the author becomes the master and the reader becomes the pet eating from its master's hand. Ideas so profound with language that takes the action of "reading" to a dimension previously unknown. Although it's an amazing experience to those that are deeply affected by this book, it reveals weakness maybe just because this author was able to do what the reader couldn't: Sharply articulate things that the reader already knew and contained within his consciousness, but couldn't take from the ether through his own efforts. For the apathetic, all there is to be experienced is annoyance at the obsession.
I am reading DFW Jest because I like his language. isn't it about a story and the English grammar Speech superlative language DFW expresses in hyphened sentences, his conjunctions so much more in his infinite jestor.
Finished Jest two days ago made the mistake of not doing the footnotes as I read but no way going to read them now the 981 pages was enough for me kind of resent it the footnotes 😂throwing a tantrum and refusing to read them
I’m reading it atm and keep coming across the previous owner’s annotations and notes. It’s interesting to get their perspective on it in real time although they did write “this dialogue is monumental, I am in love with this book”
Sorry that I come to this so late in the game. I sympathize with your frustration. There may be some genuine frustrations /questions on the part of readers that can’t be chalked up to stereotypes or irony though. Why does a book that purports to champion sincerity and provide an antidote to deadly irony insist on being so difficult to access, and with over 300 crucial footnotes no less? Why does a book that supposedly has such heart make readers unearth it beneath so much surface? Shouldn’t a book about the virtue of standing naked at least try to do so itself? I know you go into this a little in your review of the book, which I also watched, and don’t get me wrong, I like David Foster Wallace, but there are sincere questions that honest, hard-working readers can be left with. I hope people read the book, and if they don’t succeed the first time, maybe even give it a second try, but I also recognize the struggles they might have, and the real questions-questions about both life and literature-that their struggles reveal.
I generally find that I tend to admire people who like Infinite Jest. Some of my favorite musicians have songs influenced they say by Infinite Jest. But, I HATE Infinite Jest and found it Infinitely BORING. I even read commentaries about it to see if I missed something, were there elements to it that I was just too dense to understand or I didn't caught, but no there was nothing there I missed I got it, I was just unimpressed.
If they say "more and more less interested" maybe they should read more in the first place. There are words to express "more and more" in the English language, "increasingly", for example. We don't need a government to force us to "newspeak ", we do it to outselves.
It's just so infinitely relatable to the American situation, leaving few stones unturned in its process. I will gladly admit that Infinite Jest is lacking in being a book of great prose, but it as far as its plot, its character, and its aim, it just hits everything in a way that surprises me each time I feel the need to read a few pages of it (I've read it twice). It has so much to say that will always be interesting as an American novel that it's genuinely difficult to go through a day and not relate something almost directly to it (even new things, such as the Johnny Gentle-Donald Trump connection. DFW, I think, meant Gentle as the ultimate caricature of Reagan, a total fantasy, yet we're seeing a form of him in reality). There are times I really wish that I didn't love it as much as I do, but I can't help it. It's astoundingly brilliant to me. As far as hating on it, I get it if you read it and just didn't like it, but the clichéd, hacky potshots people take at it get a little old, usually seeming to reek of an American anti-intellectualism or, worse, a snooty intellectualism that dislikes it out of some misguided idea that it is everything wrong with the contemporary novel. Either way, the novel to me hits on something ineffable for me in a way that only two other novels ever have (East of Eden by John Steinbeck and A Brief History of Seven Killings by Marlon James).
"There are times I really wish that I didn't love it as much as I do, but I can't help it." THIS. See? To me, this sentence is everything; I feel that desire too. Because to love anything drastically is uncool, and childish, and so something to be ashamed of. And so we wish we weren't so enthusiastic (which is terribly, terribly sad, methinks). Thanks so much for the comment!
I’m reading East of Eden literally right now. It’s on my lap. Meanwhile, a copy of Infinite Jest is arriving in the mail tomorrow. What a funny coincidence. I like East of Eden so I hope I’ll like Infinite Jest!
It seems that we have very similar reading lists. I just finished infinite jest and just bought, what I believe I spy in the background there, Gravity's Rainbow. I like DFW better than Pynchon (so far) but I'm certainly enjoying the ride. Just out of curiosity, have you ever read any Eco?
just finished Gravity's Rainbow a few weeks ago and I've actually got a video about it on the channel, if you wanna check that out :) and no I haven't, though I need to.
I think people also hate it because of how challenging the book is. Anything that feels like it is made for someone more adadvanced than one's self is going to trigger defensive behaviors. I feel like instead of trying to understand what is challenging, a lot of people go straight to finding reasons why it is unworthy of their time
I'm one of the people who hated it. I thought it was bloated, self-absorbed, painfully dated, full of ridiculous characters that were difficult and sometimes outright impossible to relate to, and a lot of the humor came across as cringy and weak. I enjoyed some of DFW's short stories and non-fiction but this book was definitely not for me. I don't have anything against the fans, though. I can somewhat understand the appeal and everyone has the right to their own opinion.
I've never read it and not sure I ever will. I did, however, watch a video this morning from a guy providing 10 books that he felt people didn't need to read and Infinite Jest was one of them. He liked it and has read it more than once but he also said it wasn't a necessary work...probably knowing many people would find it too difficult.
I just finished reading Infinite Jest and certainly didn't look at it from an academic POV, so I don't have any deep interpretations of the novel other than it is a commentary on escape. I can't say it was my favorite book of all time but it was definitely enjoyable. I related a lot to the characters in Ennet House because I went to AA myself for a few years and I think a lot of the addiction-type portions were a big reason I kept going because there was a relation between me and those characters. Overall it was just a pleasant read. It didn't change my life, but it was pleasant.
Infinite Jest is one of my top ten books and I have read a lot in my 70ish years. Yes, right up there with Dickens because it lives on in memory. By the way, I am female.
just finished and i ADORED this book, but also, i often times DESPISED THIS BOOK, tbh i have so many notes in here that were just me saying what a horrible evil awful book this is lol due to some of the graphic and disturbing scenes but honestly this book kept me so fascinated and curious and scared and confused the whole time i had to love it ya know. anyway ij is a horrible evil wonderful convoluted choose your story kinda novel and at the end of the day i think you get out of it what you put into it
DFW woulda loved your uncool vulnerable enthusiasm, Ryan. I had forgotten reading his thoughts on this topic, and you brought it all back, and added your own thoughts so well. I have not read IJ, but one say I'll be brave enough.
You've got this :) you won't regret it. Then again maybe you will, and you'll return to this video after you're done and leave a nasty nasty comment telling me that I'm deluded :P.
I'm up to James Incandenza's filmography and loving it so far! Those who dismiss without first attempting to engage with what they dismiss, are missing out on so much - not just Infinite Jest.
I first read IJ as a sophomore in college, entirely prepared to hate it because of all the hype and the annoying hip fanboys. It changed the way I think of language and how I see myself in the world. I recently re-read it, and this time found myself particularly grateful for DFW's sincerity w/r/t 12 Step Recovery. There are very few faithful depictions of recovery in fiction. I try to tell people that "IJ is as good as everyone says it is." Still, I was a little embarrassed this time when I read it in public, because I'm in my 20s and haven't stopped caring what people think yet.
Infinite Jest is an in-real-life troll. The author wrote it just to laugh in the face of the reader and those academics who chose to analyze it because David Wallace knew there is nothing to analyze. I also think the author wrote it without any revisions. Why would he need to revise it? No need. It's all stream-of-consciousness. Heroin is better for the brain cells than Infinite Jest. The book makes me want to unread what I read but unfortunately I can't.
It has been a long time (and I didn't finish it) but I remember finding it tiresome in a kind of intentional way - like DFW was 'trying' to write a difficult and/or epic book. At the same time, I felt like he was assuming a 'hey, I'm outsider "rock n roll" author; I don't play by anyone's rules', while also seeming to say, 'oh the academic world is going to salivate over this big, boring tome.' It was at once nauseatingly hipster and loathsomely elitist... I felt like this book sucks, this guy is not even trying, yet it's daring me to say that it sucks because it's only response will be, 'you're just too stupid to understand it.'
I just finished this book, I think I was lucky cuz I went in pretty blind, I read it cuz the Duplessis brothers said it's their favorite book lol. I have to say it's an amazing book so long as you're an open person.
I'm about halfway through it, and I can imagine that it would not appeal to everyone. There is at least one section where he repeatedly uses the n-word, which may have been harsh enough, but was multiplied by my listening to the audiobook, which I had to jump up and turn it down, lest neighbors get the wrong idea. But that is such a small part of the book, although something for whom it would be a disqualifying reality. The foreshadowing of his suicide is, to me, the most troubling. Maybe if he hadn't buried it so deep within the book, the right person might have heeded the call, and he would still be with us today. I've lived in Brighton and Allston, and so the tromping grounds are familiar, though not during the famous Depend Adult Undergarment. I also play tennis, and we share other activities as well. I am a big fan of the book, and can't wait to get back to it. RIP Brother David.
I am a 44 year old feminist woman deeply devoted to irony and I am also an enthusiastic reader of Infinite Jest. My demographics are all over the place. I guess people hate it, not so much because it was written by an openly smug intellectual wealthy white male, but because it was DIVINELY written by an openly smug intellectual wealthy white male, and even more because it manages to talk to the heart of every human being while being umistakenly written by the point of view of an openly smug intellectual wealthy white male.
I definitely laughed at the stereotype. I think David at the Poptimist called it LitBro which I thought was hilarious. It is a book I want to get to eventually, I'm just kind of scared of it. I did watch The End of the Tour (but don't hate me it was only bc I love Jason Segel 😂) great video!
That makes me laugh so hard. Leave it to David to say something so funny :). Hey hey hey! I don't hate you for that! I watched the movie and liked it *quite* a bit, honestly :)
I feel like there are a lot more ~too cool to read it and I'll show you why you liking it makes you less cool than me~ -types than people who have actually read it and hate it. the book is a masterpiece.
Infinite Jest was a special book to me, it made me feel smart, but I thought the whole CIA subplot was tacked on. If I ever reread, I will just skip those parts. They really annoyed me. It seems a very complex, personal novel from a genius. My two cents.
Strange how perception is different. I read the comment about "less and less interested" as literal, because sometimes it happens to me. That the hype turns me off I mean. It's not an ironical posture. Not because I chose to be cooler but because if everybody understands it so easily, how can it be interesting
What’s wild about IJ is if you look at the copyright it almost seems like he completely predicted the streaming of mindlessly addictive entertainment via the internet. He also nails addiction 100%. There’s a ton to like about it, but it’s not an easy read. The first 50 or so pages are hard to make sense of…it’s like reading Shakespeare and the old English is a struggle till it falls into place and you understand what’s going on. I think some people don’t like it now because or the allegations that he stalked and emotionally manipulated an ex, but I still don’t really buy that one should discount good art because the artist was a crappy person at times. His other writing confirmed that he had a deep if imperfect soul.
i always notice that people like to dismiss something that themselves can't seem to get ahold of or fulfill. wallace is quite the though experience, so alot of times the ones who cant quite follow his ideas hate on it or on themselves for it. jealousy's a bitch.
Thanks a lot for this video, Ryan. I think you make a strong point in noting that comments like the one you feature knock down the book in a way that DFW has warned of. The ironic bird whom has come to love its cage. The comment you highlight in particular is perplexing because it sort of suggests the person hasn't read the book, and isn't because of popular opinion. But neglecting to do the work or research required to form a substantial take on something rarely holds up very well. Like you said here, to really decide it's best to read the book for yourself. This comment kind of implicates itself by admitting it hasn't bothered. I guess hype can be annoying. Repetitive, maybe? But beyond that I'm not exactly sure what's harmful about it. But I'm probably biased because I'm currently reading Infinite Jest and really love it. I'm happy to have stumbled across your channel on my home page. New sub here. Hope to see more videos soon.
i'm approximately 730 pages through infinite jest. don't know anyone else who has read it so just want to know who are your favourite characters? got to be mike pemulis and don gately for me
The trope "if he's got "Infinite Jest" on the shelf he's a douche poseur has an easy solution ( assuming you've read the book): ask him to tell you about the book and why he likes it. If there's nothing there then, yes, he's a douche poseur.
Best way to forget about your ex: don't talk to them until you've finished reading Infinite Jest
Started a relationship and ended it in the span of what it took me to read this book
I will thank you
just read thus spoke zarathustra for this same reason. I'm wondering: can infinite jest help me with my opioid addiction now?
why did this literally just answered my thoughts?
@@Jay-ov8oz it might. have you finished the book?
It's a hard life when your favourite band is Radiohead and your favourite book is Infinite Jest.
Linkinbird617 Yes. If the portal to 1997 opens, I'm diving through.
Or modest mouse and brand new lmao
Cold Moonlight haha your 2 favorite bands are also brand new and modest mouse?
ew
Does that mean the easy life is posting condescending RUclips comments to sarcastically validate your superior taste while listening to the latest obscure indie band that Pitchfork told you to like?
I'm 58 years old. I read Infinite Jest last month. Thankfully I knew next to nothing about David Foster Wallace or Infinite Jest or the blah, blah, Bulls%&t surrounding the book. I thought it was fantastic. I couldn't care less what other people think about the book or people who read it. I enjoy your channel. Keep up the good work !
Dude, how can you read a book so THICC. My ADHD allows me to only read two pages and then I am out. I envy you guys with normal brain.
@@reticuli4314 I have been reading all my life so that probably has something to do with it. Also I took up Buddhist Meditation ( Zen Tradition ) a quarter century ago. Best of luck friend, Peace.
@@reticuli4314 Depends on the person I guess. I got pretty bad ADHD but I find reading IJ quite therapeutic because the chaotic imagery reminds me of how my brain works.
I don't think you need social validation to like a book. It's absurd to judge a book based on the people that read it.
its not absurd at all, just a poor proxy
It’s like mein kamf, not everyone who reads it was a eugenic lover but a lot of people that swear by it and brag about reading it are
It’s definitely how I’m going to decide to read it or not, about the best option there is sadly,
@@Gomer._.not the merits of the book itself?
I suffer from clinical depression. My debt to Wallace is that he, also a sufferer, was able somehow to convey with English what one of the most painful, baffling and lonely diseases to have is like. The stuff about Kate Gompert, suicide like being trapped in a burning building, depression as "a sort of double bind in which any/all of the alternatives we associate with human agency - sitting or standing, doing or resting, speaking or keeping silent, living or dying - are not just unpleasant but literally horrible"... I love and mourn him because his work eased my suffering a little bit where electroshock, ketamine, fifty different antidepressants and therapy did nothing. I love him like an end-stage cancer patient loves morphine.
thanks for your honesty
Sorry Im replying to an old commment but how are you doing??
@ChillyCloth **cracks knuckles** Let's do this.
I can relate to this. Thanks for this comment. Hope you are well.
SCRØLL SERPENT “I love him like an end-stage cancer patient loves morphine.” That is brilliant. Thank you for your post. Hope life is going well for you now.
I stared Infinite Jest this morning. That was 2 days ago..:
hopefully you've gotten some sleep now :)
Lol.
Did you finish it?
You stared at it for two days?
this is a hilarious comment. did you make this up or was it some comment meme. so funny lol
Reading IJ in these days and 100% agree with you. It’s a magnificent work. I loved your comment about IJ helping people feeling less alone.
I learned while reading this book that it's not one of those things to feel cocky or boast about it. Its just simply grows on you so goddamn much that by the end your life gets really postmodern.
Perfectly succinct explaination for the individual experience. Thanks for reminding us all that the joy of reading something that resonates with us is not the forum for ego competition.
Well said!
post-post modern, even ;)
@@dogwalk3 you get it :)
i read the book back in seventh or eighth grade and it blew anything i had ever read, or would ever read, out of the water for so long
Oh man, never thought one of my comments would appear in a youtube video. I feel like I'm obligated to subscribe now haha.
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha well... I never imagined this would happen...
RyanJE are you at least doing some introspection now?
RyanJE Your grammar though...
@@imperialnocturnehellbound love the loveless pic
*less and less interested
Enjoyed your take on Infinite Jest and agree. Welcome vulnerability over cooler-than-thou any day. Thanks for making this!
I love this book. His talk of anhedonic depression was shattering. His discussion about the addict's mind was the first time I could relate my alcoholism to someone. Interestingly enough, DFW was in AA. I'm just over a year sober.
I love the way DFW uses language and paints vivid images and scenes.
Thank you for the video! I've subbed.
i have never been much of a reader, but you saying “his discussion about the addict’s mind was the first time i could relate my alcoholism to someone” will probably be the reason i make an effort to read, starting with this one (might be a mistake since it’s apparently hard to read lmao)
i’m also a kind of ex alcoholic, had lots of self control issues during high school. haven’t had a bad night in a long time, 5 months i would say & overall im in a great mind place, but still not sure what went wrong back then, and never been able to relate my troubles to someone or something else. excited to dive into this & see what it’s all about. thank you
Never believed audiobooks were a good idea. I've been a truck driver for four yrs now and finally gave in. I'm over halfway through listening to infinite jest and LOVE it, but I do acknowledge that I'd have never made it through just reading it
I've read it twice. I liked the entire tomb. I feel you can open the Infinite Jest anywhere and read it in a circle. I learned a bunch about AA.
0:55 Infinite Jest gets a "hard knock"
1:48 Why do people love _Infinite Jest_ ?
+ Unlike any other reading experience
+ Efforts to understand were rewarded
+ Helps people with struggle
2:30 Why do people dislike the book and its readers?
- Female, Older, 20 something beards,
3:54 - Too Much Hype Machine
4:34 "I get more and more less interested in it"
5:11 Irony has become an ugly beast, battling enthusiasm
6:47 Vulnerability, growth, motivation
Thank you for doing this.
In all honesty, my personal experience with people from both within and without the academia is that Infinite Jest (and Wallace in general) are absurdly *adored* nowadays. The amount of academic literature on his writing churned out every yeard is unbelievable - it's actually getting kinda hard to find scholars of contemporary American Literature who DON'T study Wallace. At the university where I took my MA at, 3 out of 3 people who research c. American lit for a living (either as PhDs or professors) are working on David Foster Wallace. My supervisor's going to a conference in Bloomington this year where people are gona be interviewed because they were once in the same room as Wallace (!!!). I think I've met something like three people in my whole life who were or became skeptical about the book, and only one who disliked it, but she admittedly never finished it.
The kind of "hate" you mention is only a natural reaction to this tendency I think, and as you justly said in the video, some people are going to hate the book just because it sounds cool to do so.
One last thing, and this is gonna sound dicky, and I know you've got lots on your reading schedule so take this as a humble suggestion, but I do think you should check out Pynchon's Bleeding Edge to get a view from "the other side" of the whole irony VS sincerity debate. Great video as usual btw ;)
Ah, the man myth and legend himself, the Bookchemist :). I think you raise an interesting-as-always point. I hadn't really considered how my academic experience fits into the academic experience at large.In my department currently the anti-DFW wave is a strong one, though that's always struck me as a little absurd because the general academic tides are not turning that way, like you mentioned. I've also run into a good amount of people who, like you said, are churning out stuff on him... but, on the other hand, I've seen a few departments who are almost waging war. I might be in a bubble here :) (And actually, I'm about 90% sure I'm going to be going to that conference next year. I know some people presenting papers, and one of them even comments on my videos sometimes! RUclips is cool.)
Oh good, another difficult 400-500 page novel to get through ;) no I'll take your recommendation very seriously. I start Gravity's Rainbow today, actually as soon as I get done answering comments, so this feels like an auspicious occasion. Bleeding Edge is definitely on my radar now. Thanks for, once again, an excellent and thought-provoking comment :)
You're welcome - I might simply be unaware of a recent trend in the field! Can't wait to hear your thoughts on Gravity's Rainbow :)
The_Bookchemist I've never read Infinite Jest, but only because I didn't care for Broom of the System.
The_Bookchemist I don't hate infinite jest. Though I wonder if that kind of absurdity in Academia is something Wallace would have written about.
Hi, have you heard of: X Man by Michael Brodsky. . . . . and if so, would you review it? It confuses me and I'd love to hear your thoughts! Thanks from the little state of Delaware!
I’ve wanted to read Infinite Jest for a few years but the sheer size terrifies me. Lockdown may be the excuse I need to give it a go. Thanks for the video!
Did you ever get around to reading it ?
This was like reading Ulysses, Gravity's Rainbow, or The Sound and the Fury for me... So difficult... DEMANDED outside research, before reading but also WHILE reading and AFTER finishing it to really begin to get to a place where you could start to appreciate it.
Like Ulysses, Gravity's Rainbow or The Sound and the Fury, with Infinite Jest ALL of your efforts as a reader are rewarded. With this book (and with those other works) you are carried away through an experience that is incomparable.
It's not so much "reading" as it is a "software update".
Most people still running on Windows 97.
"It's not so much "reading" as it is a "software update".
Most people still running on Windows 97."
This is trite but also very much true. I'm in a life situation right now when I've felt for a couple of weeks now like I have to re-read the book again (I'm in a need of a middle size-ish software update), but I also somewhat dread the process.
You convinced me. I'm reading the book.
I have just picked up Infinite Jest for the first time, and decided to listen to a few interviews with David Foster Wallace to get a feel of who he is as a writer, as I have yet to read any of his work, as well as to prime myself for diving into this piece. I did not watch your review video, or any review on it for that matter, as I had no interest in hearing what others thought about the book, because I wanted to enter the mind of the writer and get lost, that is until I came across this video. Two hours ago I had posted on facebook that I was about to embark on this journey, and immediately was met with criticism in the same spirit as you mention. It literally felt as if they were spitting in the face of this book and anyone who showed any interest in reading it. So I too asked myself why? Thank you for making this video.
That's a great breakdown of the phenomenon, Ryan. First of your videos that I've seen and I really appreciated it. I had the good fortune to come upon Infinite Jest in total innocence and ignorance. Introduced to DFW by my 20 year old son, I decided to read one of his books to better understand said progeny. First one I found- Infinite Jest (a nice 20th anniversary edition). Written the year my son was born (though it was published in '96 and my son was born in '95, I think it's safe to say that a portion of it was written the same year as my son's birth), by a man born the same year I was born (and we both grew up in the Midwest). And I currently live in the area where most of the book takes place. So aside from everything else about the book, there was a multi-faceted personal aspect to it. Am I a raving DFW/IJ fan? No. Am I fascinated by the mind of someone who can write Infinite Jest and Incarnations of Burned Children? Yes. Was I riveted, annoyed, amused, bored, entertained, moved, creeped out, excited, educated, and touched by this book? Many times all of the above. Screw the hype- folks, if you don't want to read the book, don't read it. But if you're going to not read it because of other people's enthusiasm you should examine your priorities. And if you're going to judge it or the people who like it without reading it- come on, really?
Mike Kline Couldn't have said it better.
Oh man, I am immediately hitting that subscribe button. I started reading Wallace some four years ago and have since become a legitimate fan of IJ and Wallace's non-fiction, and what happened when I first finished the book and went online the massive backlash against it completely dizzied me. Because a lot of it felt so unanimous, it drove me mad trying to figure out where do I put myself in that rhetoric as a female fan of a book which had been publicly-declared as the despised prerogative of the 20-something-philosophy-major-fuckboi. All I could hear in my head was the screaming voices of mean people being all like, "Omg you're a sensible *woman* why are you reading this?" and worse "Are you deliberately trying to subvert gender expectations by reading this?" So hearing your lucid take on this has been quite reassuring for me. THANK YOU.
People hated and still hate Blood Meridian. People hated and still hate Moby Dick; people hated and still hate Shakespeare's plays; people hated and hate The Waste Land, and The Cantos, and Ulysses. All real readers read in the expectation that their time spent will be rewarded, and when someone reads a tough book he wants to feel the time was worth it. IJ takes effort, and the first time I read it through, I found myself totally confused, but in spite of that, laughing my ass off at an endnote, or an anecdote told by one of the characters, or saddened by another character. There were little payoffs in spite of the difficulty. But I also felt that like every good book I have read, the second reading was going to be much better. I had the lay of the book's land somewhat in my head. It was so good the second time. And then the third time it was even more remarkable. By this time I knew the characters, I could follow the chronological jumps. I found it a novel whose dividends of pleasure got better every time I read it. And for me that is the gold standard of what a really great book has. The fourth reading was like the once a year meeting with those friends or family members who give us sheer joy while in their presence. We have all had the experience of re-reading a novel we loved on the first read, only to find that on the subsequent reading it didn't hold up at all. We saw the tricks, felt the flat parts. Again, as Lewis once famously said, "The first reading of a book satisfies our lust for narrative [in Wallace that is only barely true]; it's the subsequent readings that reveal the true gems."
As of writing, I have read 60 pages of Infinite Jest but really it felt like 150 or 300 easily. So close to dropping it but this video helped convince me to push on. Hope you are doing well, wherever you are today.
Hope you're still reading. The early pages upon first reading are hard going, but then it gets so readable you can hardly bear to tear yourself away.
Did you finish? I still remember the exact scene I fell in love with it. And the second I finished it, I flipped it over and started it again. It has everything.
@@indianikit741 Found it impossible to grasp. I'll have to give it another go some time!
I serendipitously brought a copy of Infinite Jest with me while checking myself into a psychiactric facility for suicidal ideation, depression, and anxiety years ago. Needless to say it spoke to me. I didn't even know about David Foster Wallace's struggles with the same issues at the time. For those reasons, I'll never not know what it's like to be profoundly and positively impacted by that work. Nevertheless, I've never gushed or ranted about it. It's too big a can of worms. I should revisit it soon.
the people that hate infinite jest hate it precisely for the harsh truth it speaks about irony.
their whole person is an amalgam of ironic disengagement.
it is like the book is calling them a worthless bum. ofc they will hate.
so true and how satirical it is too
As someone who was an early life opiate addict, the ending of infinite jest resonated hard and I thought really communicated (in my limited vocabulary) the feeling of feeling nothing at all and the embracement of scenery and strange serenity. Therefore it was hard for me to believe that DFW didn't use opiates but I want to take his word for it and applaud whatever research he did.
I have no idea why anyone would hate Infinite Jest. I'm reading it for the second time, and I'll probably keep reading it after that because it is so rich. Also, you can listen to it read as an audiobook on RUclips. Only problem is, the audiobook does not include footnotes, so best to read the book first. I read it one summer when I was dog sitting, and now I read it when I turn off my electricity to save energy.
actually audible has every part! even the footnotes
You hit the nail on the head with how irony is in today's day and age: "Irony looks straight into the face of enthusiasm, spits, and then says I choose to remain cooler than you - I choose not to engage in your vulnerable enthusiasm, instead I am going to remain safe and keep my distance." WELL SAID!!
infinite jest gave me the howling fantods
I really like the prose-style of Infinite Jest and the hyper-detailed fictional world, but at times the characters are brittle and shallow, the scenes a little contrived and it does seem like he was, at times, unable to resist the compulsion to gratuitously exhibit his intellectual prowess.
“My characters to me, except for a few, always seem a little contrived, but thats cause I remember contriving them.” -DFW (2004 San Fran Interview)
I think if we had to live in a world where authors had to play down their intellectual prowess it would be a far less exciting one to say the least
@@Seamythief I agree; but there is a difference between not playing down your smarts, and doing everything in your power to create the sense that you are an untouchable super-genius, particularly when this comes at the expense of the reader's time. I really like certain sections of Infinite Jest, but many seem unnecessarily long and tedious. Interestingly, I think the less complex sections are generally the best, and I think that is because he had a more developed understanding of what he wanted to say in those sections and didn't feel he had to puff them up.
In some ways I would actually agree there are sections which do fly by my head from the sheer complexity of them but I think part of why the book is regarded as so great is simply to observe the extent of what the human mind can do in the same way we appreciate sculptures and what not, that being said I can still understand why it comes of as pontificating but each to their own
That’s an interesting point about Infinite Jest being a demonstration of human achievement. I hadn’t thought of that and yes, that probably is part of the appeal. By coincidence I’m 600 pages into Infinite Jest at the moment and this conversation has inspired me to push through and complete it.
DUDE I feel a sense of kindredness watching this video, from seeing your enthusiasm for this amazing book / enthusiasm for the meta nature of that comment / enthusiasm for enthusiasm. What a thrill to know there are others like me. Keep up the awesome videos.
I know it's probably not scientifically verifiable, but I would love to know how many of the people who are dismissive of "Infinite Jest" have actually read "Infinite Jest." I've long been puzzled by the weird backlash against DFW, which seems to center on "bros" and frat boys being fans, or something like that. I'm not sure. But it definitely seems more to do with readers or fans than the work itself, which, despite its reputation as a "hip" book, or a funny/snide book, actually contains quite a bit of very deep sadness and trauma and despair. I've found myself having to defend DFW to people, some very smart people, because they've received this notion that he was a hip, ironic writer, and I just don't see it. If anything he was a very sincere writer who constantly wrestled-in writing and in interviews-with the problems inherent in both sincerity and irony. But, like all things, I imagine ultimately that his work either speaks to you or it doesn't. For me, it spoke to me from day one. I believe he was one of the most remarkable writers of the second half of the twentieth century.
I got this book before my daughter was born, didn't get half through she is now 13 I'll get to it someday.
That section of infinite jest about the idea that sentimentality is childish and so we seek casual detachment was my favorite part. It just rings so true and says so much about our culture. Glad you made this video and hope it leads more people to question their prejudices against reading it and against those who love it.
thanks for the support :) and for the comment. It's a thing I think about constantly, and perhaps at an unhealthy level: if I, a twenty something man who loves to sound smarter than he actually is, want to talk about this book without also reaffirming stereotypes, how the hell can I do it???
The only possible answer (though I'm open to new ones) is with something approaching vulnerability/sentimentality.
+yrrobotfriend it's a nice little bind we've been placed in, right?
Just read that part today, if you're talking about the conversation between Maranthe and M. Steeply.
I submit that those who say they hate Infinite Jest haven't read it. I probably wouldn't have read it if not for feeling alone while working abroad, but I'm so glad I did. I am far from what you'd call an academic but I have read a lot of books from various genres and Infinite Jest is hands down the best novel I've ever read.
I think part of it is that Infinite Jest is essentially about the ways the culture atomizes us and argued that what people really need is sincerity and connection. The type of audience that infinite jest is best for is probably alcoholics/addicts/depressive young men with a decent sense education. A lot of women don’t want to date that guy, but the book is trying to correct these things
i'm halfway through the book now, and I am too immersed and hooked to imagine hating it...unless it winds up pulling a last episode of dallas or sopranos sendoff.
Consider the Crawfish
David Foster Wallace wrote a piece once called “Consider the Lobster”. I view this book and his writing a lot like eating crawfish which resemble little lobsters. When you eat crawfish, you get a plate piled high of about a hundred crawfish. You have to work really hard to shell the each crawfish to get a little teeny piece of meat, and then you have to do it again and again and again about a hundred times just to get the equivalent amount of meat you get from one lobster tail. I view reading Infinite Jest like eating crawfish. A whole lot of work for a little meat. The meat is good, but it’s not extraordinary. It’s meat that you can find in greater quantities in more accessible places.
I feel like the book itself was what it’s title suggests, an “Infinite Jest”. Purposely long, purposely ‘never-ending’ basically “infinite”, and a joke on the reader, especially those who put on the airs of intellectual and philosophical superiority because they read and could appreciate this book that is not accessible to or liked by many people.
In the end, the joke was on him because that’s is what he ultimately was doing by writing such a book, look at how much smarter I am than everyone else that I can write such a long and intricate book that’s inaccessible to these small brained people. It is the height of arrogance and a need for an approval by the very society and culture that you’re critiquing and exposing in you book. That want and need for approval and accolades from people and society that he truly disdained may have what led to him taking his own life.
thank you for writing this dude
One reason D.F.W. is one of my favorite writers is that I don't always agree with him. The other is that he could flat out write. Just like Hendrix could play...
Perhaps writers and readers love IJ because it pushes what we know "the novel" to be . . . forward towards that big black hole at the center of our galaxy. Bolano did it with 2666. Pynchon and Cervantes and Melville and V. Woolf and so many others have done it. Many visual artists, musicians, conductors, as well. I am both a writer and an avid reader and adore IJ but hardly ever talk to anyone about it. And when they ask if I would recommend it, I usually say: No. I don't actually know why I say no....maybe I feel this book needs to be found by readers, not pushed on them? I don't honestly know, but I cannot think of anyone in my life that I would recommend this to. One thing I can agree with, as far as the haters go: I cannot stand people that drone on and on about IJ--either way. I read it in the early mornings of one month last year and I felt it was a private experience that I so thoroughly enjoyed. And that's it. It's that simple. Nothing more complicated than that.
I think the reason why people say that infinite jest is a red flag isn't bc the boy won't stop talking about it. It's been compared to fight club where a large amount of people who think it's their favourite book took away the wrong and a dangerous message from it and they've taken it into their personal philosophy.
Not accusing you of that but just thought I'd clarify :)
"a flying fart"
i tried to read it
but too much tennis
See I find I enjoy all the words. The way Wallace writes is enjoyable in itself.
I’ve not read the book, and have only in the past few years become aware of David Wallace. I’ve read some of his short works, watched a few interviews and become aware of the larger social narrative as it relates to him. I find him interesting and insightful, and perhaps a bit put-off from so many questions directed to him about that which he sees as obvious. I wonder, was he as well known and discussed prior to the time his life ended? For whatever reason(s) far too often the geniuses are not fully embraced during their own lifetimes.
Anyhow, for whatever number of reasons one might “hate” this book, perhaps on that list could be included the particular kind of subtle intellectual snobbery that is sometimes associated with such monumental works. Often I find myself an interloper in a group I would otherwise have an affinity with simply because I have not read the book. It creates me as an “outsider” to the erudite “insider” group (which is typically an “outsider” group as viewed in context to the larger society) who knows the book and can discuss it at length. It’s a terrible feeling of course. I discovered a similar dynamic with “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” only to further ascertain that once I had read the book, I still continued to be an outsider in groups which had already formed on their notion of the book & series. In that regard my experience was that so-called “outsiders” from the larger social norms will do likewise to others, while at the same time heralding their own “outsider” status as a kind of badge of honor. Presenting that one hates the book has the effect of diluting the rejection, and in return creating an “insider we-hate-the-book” group vs. the “insider we-love-the-book“ group‘s struggle to find a place within the larger society. In that way the dislike of the book is less about disliking a book that spans 900 pages - at least some of which must have been interesting and likeable for nearly everyone - and more about something deeper. In those instances, it all seems pretty mundane and conventional, yet fascinating and a dynamic that probably only supports the proposition(s) that Wallace is trying to present.
I'm reading it for the first time and 100 pages in. I will say it is very challenging and annoying at parts but also rewarding enough that I need to see it through.
I watched your review of Infinite Jest, after stumbling on a bunch of DFW stuff on youtube, then upon your review and looking up what he'd written...
So long story short, I borrowed Infinite Jest from my local library and I've got about 20 days left to finish reading it. I'm probably about 1/9 of the way through and well, so far, so good. I'd certainly recommend it at this stage, I'd recommend it to just about anyone.
The other thing is, besides the "hate" that happens when anyone is enthusiastic (certainly guilty of projecting that onto people in the past... silly me) I've noticed folks talking about the book hating it... I dunno because they're... just not picking up what he's putting down. Which is fair enough I suppose. People avoid all kinds of difficult yet rewarding things for EXACTLY THE SAME REASON.
Anyways, Thanks for the reviews and the coolio friendly manner, and I'm sure plenty of introductions to good reading.
Have a nice one and God bless, cheerio
I've only just started reading it. Came across Wallace via RUclips, and don't remember him from the nineties.
I'm 150 pages in, mostly lost. I've annotated it and have books on it. His style is interesting but I can't tie it together much.
Surely Fifty Shades of Grey is the most despised book of the last twenty years?
p.s. Drop the phrase "mansplain" please. It's anti-male.
As far as why strangers feel aversion towards those that are fascinated by this book, I think, by extrapolating from most human interactions, that we have a gut/intuitive reaction towards dominated strangers. This seems to be what happens when someone becomes absorbed by an idea, another person, an emotion, an ideology, etc. Inherently, it shows weakness. In this case, the author becomes the master and the reader becomes the pet eating from its master's hand. Ideas so profound with language that takes the action of "reading" to a dimension previously unknown. Although it's an amazing experience to those that are deeply affected by this book, it reveals weakness maybe just because this author was able to do what the reader couldn't: Sharply articulate things that the reader already knew and contained within his consciousness, but couldn't take from the ether through his own efforts. For the apathetic, all there is to be experienced is annoyance at the obsession.
great stuff man! This book is transformative and you totally nailed the weird dynamics around it!
I am reading DFW Jest because I like his language. isn't it about a story and the English grammar Speech superlative language DFW expresses in hyphened sentences, his conjunctions so much more in his infinite jestor.
Finished Jest two days ago made the mistake of not doing the footnotes as I read but no way going to read them now the 981 pages was enough for me kind of resent it the footnotes 😂throwing a tantrum and refusing to read them
honestly, i just focused on the characters and ignored the footnotes and the complex words
I’m reading it atm and keep coming across the previous owner’s annotations and notes. It’s interesting to get their perspective on it in real time although they did write “this dialogue is monumental, I am in love with this book”
which dialogue was that? one of hal/orin calls?
Sorry that I come to this so late in the game. I sympathize with your frustration. There may be some genuine frustrations /questions on the part of readers that can’t be chalked up to stereotypes or irony though. Why does a book that purports to champion sincerity and provide an antidote to deadly irony insist on being so difficult to access, and with over 300 crucial footnotes no less? Why does a book that supposedly has such heart make readers unearth it beneath so much surface? Shouldn’t a book about the virtue of standing naked at least try to do so itself? I know you go into this a little in your review of the book, which I also watched, and don’t get me wrong, I like David Foster Wallace, but there are sincere questions that honest, hard-working readers can be left with. I hope people read the book, and if they don’t succeed the first time, maybe even give it a second try, but I also recognize the struggles they might have, and the real questions-questions about both life and literature-that their struggles reveal.
I only read books with Fabio on the cover.
mansplaining is a stereotype in itself.
I love this book, its my favorite book. And I love you're review, it helped me keep going through it.
I'm glad to hear both of those things :)
I generally find that I tend to admire people who like Infinite Jest. Some of my favorite musicians have songs influenced they say by Infinite Jest. But, I HATE Infinite Jest and found it Infinitely BORING. I even read commentaries about it to see if I missed something, were there elements to it that I was just too dense to understand or I didn't caught, but no there was nothing there I missed I got it, I was just unimpressed.
That comment popped right out at me, too! It reminded me of, "He's one of those people who don't need much, much less much more." (p. 268) 😆
If they say "more and more less interested" maybe they should read more in the first place. There are words to express "more and more" in the English language, "increasingly", for example. We don't need a government to force us to "newspeak ", we do it to outselves.
It's you. The reason why people hate Infinite Jest is because of you.
It's just so infinitely relatable to the American situation, leaving few stones unturned in its process. I will gladly admit that Infinite Jest is lacking in being a book of great prose, but it as far as its plot, its character, and its aim, it just hits everything in a way that surprises me each time I feel the need to read a few pages of it (I've read it twice). It has so much to say that will always be interesting as an American novel that it's genuinely difficult to go through a day and not relate something almost directly to it (even new things, such as the Johnny Gentle-Donald Trump connection. DFW, I think, meant Gentle as the ultimate caricature of Reagan, a total fantasy, yet we're seeing a form of him in reality). There are times I really wish that I didn't love it as much as I do, but I can't help it. It's astoundingly brilliant to me. As far as hating on it, I get it if you read it and just didn't like it, but the clichéd, hacky potshots people take at it get a little old, usually seeming to reek of an American anti-intellectualism or, worse, a snooty intellectualism that dislikes it out of some misguided idea that it is everything wrong with the contemporary novel. Either way, the novel to me hits on something ineffable for me in a way that only two other novels ever have (East of Eden by John Steinbeck and A Brief History of Seven Killings by Marlon James).
"There are times I really wish that I didn't love it as much as I do, but I can't help it." THIS. See? To me, this sentence is everything; I feel that desire too. Because to love anything drastically is uncool, and childish, and so something to be ashamed of. And so we wish we weren't so enthusiastic (which is terribly, terribly sad, methinks). Thanks so much for the comment!
I’m reading East of Eden literally right now. It’s on my lap. Meanwhile, a copy of Infinite Jest is arriving in the mail tomorrow. What a funny coincidence. I like East of Eden so I hope I’ll like Infinite Jest!
@@cameronstevens3198 I hope you enjoy it! Very different styles, but both capturing something totally ineffable and divine.
It seems that we have very similar reading lists. I just finished infinite jest and just bought, what I believe I spy in the background there, Gravity's Rainbow. I like DFW better than Pynchon (so far) but I'm certainly enjoying the ride. Just out of curiosity, have you ever read any Eco?
just finished Gravity's Rainbow a few weeks ago and I've actually got a video about it on the channel, if you wanna check that out :) and no I haven't, though I need to.
I think people also hate it because of how challenging the book is. Anything that feels like it is made for someone more adadvanced than one's self is going to trigger defensive behaviors. I feel like instead of trying to understand what is challenging, a lot of people go straight to finding reasons why it is unworthy of their time
I'm one of the people who hated it. I thought it was bloated, self-absorbed, painfully dated, full of ridiculous characters that were difficult and sometimes outright impossible to relate to, and a lot of the humor came across as cringy and weak. I enjoyed some of DFW's short stories and non-fiction but this book was definitely not for me. I don't have anything against the fans, though. I can somewhat understand the appeal and everyone has the right to their own opinion.
I've never read it and not sure I ever will. I did, however, watch a video this morning from a guy providing 10 books that he felt people didn't need to read and Infinite Jest was one of them. He liked it and has read it more than once but he also said it wasn't a necessary work...probably knowing many people would find it too difficult.
I love Infinite Jest. I don't talk about it incessantly, but I love it. I think it's brilliant.
I just finished reading Infinite Jest and certainly didn't look at it from an academic POV, so I don't have any deep interpretations of the novel other than it is a commentary on escape. I can't say it was my favorite book of all time but it was definitely enjoyable. I related a lot to the characters in Ennet House because I went to AA myself for a few years and I think a lot of the addiction-type portions were a big reason I kept going because there was a relation between me and those characters. Overall it was just a pleasant read. It didn't change my life, but it was pleasant.
Infinite Jest is one of my top ten books and I have read a lot in my 70ish years. Yes, right up there with Dickens because it lives on in memory. By the way, I am female.
just finished and i ADORED this book, but also, i often times DESPISED THIS BOOK, tbh i have so many notes in here that were just me saying what a horrible evil awful book this is lol due to some of the graphic and disturbing scenes but honestly this book kept me so fascinated and curious and scared and confused the whole time i had to love it ya know. anyway ij is a horrible evil wonderful convoluted choose your story kinda novel and at the end of the day i think you get out of it what you put into it
DFW woulda loved your uncool vulnerable enthusiasm, Ryan. I had forgotten reading his thoughts on this topic, and you brought it all back, and added your own thoughts so well. I have not read IJ, but one say I'll be brave enough.
You've got this :) you won't regret it.
Then again maybe you will, and you'll return to this video after you're done and leave a nasty nasty comment telling me that I'm deluded :P.
I'm up to James Incandenza's filmography and loving it so far! Those who dismiss without first attempting to engage with what they dismiss, are missing out on so much - not just Infinite Jest.
You expressed the core message that infinite jest had for me when you talked about irony vs enthusiasm! Stay enthusiastic!
"much cooler, less vulnerable things to do"... well, put
I first read IJ as a sophomore in college, entirely prepared to hate it because of all the hype and the annoying hip fanboys. It changed the way I think of language and how I see myself in the world. I recently re-read it, and this time found myself particularly grateful for DFW's sincerity w/r/t 12 Step Recovery. There are very few faithful depictions of recovery in fiction. I try to tell people that "IJ is as good as everyone says it is." Still, I was a little embarrassed this time when I read it in public, because I'm in my 20s and haven't stopped caring what people think yet.
Infinite Jest is an in-real-life troll. The author wrote it just to laugh in the face of the reader and those academics who chose to analyze it because David Wallace knew there is nothing to analyze. I also think the author wrote it without any revisions. Why would he need to revise it? No need. It's all stream-of-consciousness. Heroin is better for the brain cells than Infinite Jest. The book makes me want to unread what I read but unfortunately I can't.
Honestly, Infinite Jest was both amazing and made very little sense as a narrative, at least to me. So I can see why certain people don't like that.
It has been a long time (and I didn't finish it) but I remember finding it tiresome in a kind of intentional way - like DFW was 'trying' to write a difficult and/or epic book. At the same time, I felt like he was assuming a 'hey, I'm outsider "rock n roll" author; I don't play by anyone's rules', while also seeming to say, 'oh the academic world is going to salivate over this big, boring tome.' It was at once nauseatingly hipster and loathsomely elitist... I felt like this book sucks, this guy is not even trying, yet it's daring me to say that it sucks because it's only response will be, 'you're just too stupid to understand it.'
I just finished this book, I think I was lucky cuz I went in pretty blind, I read it cuz the Duplessis brothers said it's their favorite book lol. I have to say it's an amazing book so long as you're an open person.
I'm about halfway through it, and I can imagine that it would not appeal to everyone. There is at least one section where he repeatedly uses the n-word, which may have been harsh enough, but was multiplied by my listening to the audiobook, which I had to jump up and turn it down, lest neighbors get the wrong idea. But that is such a small part of the book, although something for whom it would be a disqualifying reality. The foreshadowing of his suicide is, to me, the most troubling. Maybe if he hadn't buried it so deep within the book, the right person might have heeded the call, and he would still be with us today.
I've lived in Brighton and Allston, and so the tromping grounds are familiar, though not during the famous Depend Adult Undergarment. I also play tennis, and we share other activities as well. I am a big fan of the book, and can't wait to get back to it. RIP Brother David.
the layers of irony in his self deprecating joke go deep lol
David Foster Wallace paints the bleakest picture of the world we exist in. I found it unsettling, but honest and funny, without any filters.
I am a 44 year old feminist woman deeply devoted to irony and I am also an enthusiastic reader of Infinite Jest. My demographics are all over the place. I guess people hate it, not so much because it was written by an openly smug intellectual wealthy white male, but because it was DIVINELY written by an openly smug intellectual wealthy white male, and even more because it manages to talk to the heart of every human being while being umistakenly written by the point of view of an openly smug intellectual wealthy white male.
I definitely laughed at the stereotype. I think David at the Poptimist called it LitBro which I thought was hilarious. It is a book I want to get to eventually, I'm just kind of scared of it. I did watch The End of the Tour (but don't hate me it was only bc I love Jason Segel 😂) great video!
That makes me laugh so hard. Leave it to David to say something so funny :). Hey hey hey! I don't hate you for that! I watched the movie and liked it *quite* a bit, honestly :)
I feel like there are a lot more
~too cool to read it and I'll show you why you liking it makes you less cool than me~
-types than people who have actually read it and hate it.
the book is a masterpiece.
Infinite Jest was a special book to me, it made me feel smart, but I thought the whole CIA subplot was tacked on. If I ever reread, I will just skip those parts. They really annoyed me. It seems a very complex, personal novel from a genius. My two cents.
“Infinite Jest” is the “Ulysses” of our day.
Nothing celebrates enthousiasm by using a word like mansplaining in an unironic way.
Remember, you'll never be cool enough.
I read it over 2 years. At some point I was doing it so as not to be beaten. In retrospect it was torture almost the entire time.
Strange how perception is different. I read the comment about "less and less interested" as literal, because sometimes it happens to me. That the hype turns me off I mean. It's not an ironical posture. Not because I chose to be cooler but because if everybody understands it so easily, how can it be interesting
"more and more less interested in it," beautiful prose
What’s wild about IJ is if you look at the copyright it almost seems like he completely predicted the streaming of mindlessly addictive entertainment via the internet. He also nails addiction 100%. There’s a ton to like about it, but it’s not an easy read. The first 50 or so pages are hard to make sense of…it’s like reading Shakespeare and the old English is a struggle till it falls into place and you understand what’s going on. I think some people don’t like it now because or the allegations that he stalked and emotionally manipulated an ex, but I still don’t really buy that one should discount good art because the artist was a crappy person at times. His other writing confirmed that he had a deep if imperfect soul.
I just finished it. It was ok. I'm a 20 something bearded dude. Ass
The best comment I’ve ever read on RUclips
i always notice that people like to dismiss something that themselves can't seem to get ahold of or fulfill. wallace is quite the though experience, so alot of times the ones who cant quite follow his ideas hate on it or on themselves for it. jealousy's a bitch.
Thanks a lot for this video, Ryan.
I think you make a strong point in noting that comments like the one you feature knock down the book in a way that DFW has warned of. The ironic bird whom has come to love its cage.
The comment you highlight in particular is perplexing because it sort of suggests the person hasn't read the book, and isn't because of popular opinion. But neglecting to do the work or research required to form a substantial take on something rarely holds up very well. Like you said here, to really decide it's best to read the book for yourself. This comment kind of implicates itself by admitting it hasn't bothered.
I guess hype can be annoying. Repetitive, maybe? But beyond that I'm not exactly sure what's harmful about it. But I'm probably biased because I'm currently reading Infinite Jest and really love it.
I'm happy to have stumbled across your channel on my home page. New sub here. Hope to see more videos soon.
Ive literally heard nothing but praise for this book
i'm approximately 730 pages through infinite jest. don't know anyone else who has read it so just want to know who are your favourite characters? got to be mike pemulis and don gately for me
ciarann182 Gately, 100%
Gotta go with Gately.
The trope "if he's got "Infinite Jest" on the shelf he's a douche poseur has an easy solution ( assuming you've read the book): ask him to tell you about the book and why he likes it. If there's nothing there then, yes, he's a douche poseur.
"Greatness attracts debunkers."
I think that "more and more less" comment was probably just someone tired of hearing about it