I have an example. I have played this game since original bc and know nearly every aspect of it up to shadowlands. I have a friend who just started playing for the first time when classic launches. When bc came out he leveled, joined a group who was looking for a dps for a heroic dungeon, was then made fun of and kicked for not having gemmed his gear. He then quit and only now came back. The problem was he didnt know how gems worked. I was able to explain them to him and now he is good, but the group who invited him should have advertised as needing a dps that was fully optimal. If you are pugging randoms you have to accept the fact that you may get new players, and if you truly love the game and want it to grow to new people, then it is your responsibility to explain how things work. Be a mentor. Be someone these new players can look up to and strive to be. Either that or when you advertise for pugs make it clear what you are looking for because a lot of these systems that us who have played the game for years consider easy to understand may be confusing to the new player.
I hate to say it because I'm biased towards xiv, but they need to take a page from xiv's book on how this is done. Have a group finder that has a preset option to go into a fight as practice, certain phases, or if you just want a clear and can only join if you've completed and fit criteria. Yes, sometimes people squeak through but it's better than putting all of the work on the players to relegate other players. Give us the option to set up a brand new prog, for practice runs only. It's a huge help when I hop into xiv after a break and want to check in on some newer stuff. I can join up a practice prog pug and feel comfortable that I'm not the odd one out.
@@riner9 who cares? People can like different things. It's what makes us unique. The world would be boring as fuck if we all thought the same, and liked the same things.
@@riner9 I don't think weeb means what you think it means. They're dorks yes, but I wouldn't call them weebs. To be a weeb you have to have a strong admiration for japanese culture, to the extent you want to learn japanese, eat their foods, and adopt some of their culture. FFXIV is pretty western aesthetically. (Granted most self described weebs confuse being obsessed with manga and anime as being weeb, but there's a lot more to it than that)
Fun fact for those who didn't catch the stream live: The reason there's a cut at 7:35 is because Asmon's internet cut out for like 5 minutes LITERALLY RIGHT AS WILLE WAS TALKING ABOUT LOSING CONNECTION AND LOSING GEAR IN RUNESCAPE. Actually one of the most spectacular "timing" moments I've witnessed on twitch
Classic really confirmed my beliefs that most people care more about their own personal dps meters/logs more than just wanting to kill the boss. The world buff meta was hilarious. Imagine requiring all the raid buffs and bis for LFR. That's what classic is. All they care about is parses. So weird.
To be honest, it's not always this simple. For example, some people don't want to care about logs and good parses but find out they might have to present good logs to even be considered, let alone have a decent chance to find a guild or even a half decent PUG to raid. I play on a medium pop server and I've seen it a lot how people with no logs or just average logs struggle being invited to a PUG raid at all. Not so much an issue on big servers, from what I hear, but on medium pop servers with less PUGs to begin with, people often find without good parses, they stand little to no chance to be invited to a raid unless they have a friend who knows the leader and can get them in. It's not great but this is what logs have brought us I guess.
This is what killed classic for me. Too sweaty. Wanted to try out smite priest in TBC since it was viable, and just never got a chance. Everyone was concerned with the meta. Most people just did not want to try anything new. In a fifteen year old game.
As a new player to classic, and a fairly new player to wow in general (played legion for 3 months and then left), I feel like Asmon hits the nail on the head at the end. I'm enjoying my leveling experience in classic, and when I get to end-game content, I will be looking for a guild/like-minded players that are willing to let me learn and progress alongside me. I'm sad I didn't get to experience WoW until my mid 20's.
Hey don't be sad you missed vanilla wow. Be glad that you found classic and are now having fun with other players. It's always better to be glad then sad. I wish you much fun out there and be safe. :)
Exactly. I do quests, sometimes dungeon and i do not expect much of it. But maaaan, i am not sure who is sitting behind some of the chars, but immediately something unexpected happens in their frame of expectation, they rage like crazy. We did chill time dungeon few days ago and on the halk way one of the guys announced that he need to check on his kid after cuurent pull. 4 people ok with that, it is normal human thing right? And healer just f here f there and quit. Guy returned, asked where is healer, we made few jokes and quit the dung. No hard feelings. I am not sure why some of the people try hard so hard :) I would just appreciate some indicator of casual vs. try hard, cause i would not definetly join try hard group of people. :)
"I want to have Wrath class design, with classic world design" This is what I've been wanting from classic and classic+ the whole time. I doubt blizz would ever do it, but I feel like that would be the perfect goal for classic going forward.
I came back to WoW from a year long break in 2009 right when ICC released. I needed something to do during rehab after surgery. I decided to roll a Hunter on a new play server and just enjoy the leveling and make a point to read lore and quest text. I managed to lvl to 80 without setting foot in a dungeon. I purposely avoided it. Well, I ding 80 and the game lets me know about this new RDF feature, and I thought, hey, I had no intention to play at max level but let’s try this. About four pulls in I get asked by the tank to turn my pet taunt off. Having only soloed to that point, I had no need to turn it off, and this, had no idea how. So I break down and admit “how do I do that?” One snarky SOB said “someone e-bayed his character” damn near instantly. Fortunately being a veteran of the game, just not Hunter in group content at that point, I was able to let it slide. The tank was nice enough to let me know to right click the pet bar to remove the gold-swirly-thingy. So I did and the run goes smoothly as silk from there. The lesson there is that it took next to no time to answer a simple question, help the group out, and improve everyone’s experience. I went on the play my Hunter hardcore for three years after that dungeon.
The "Welfare" haters in wrath were the same few top guilds on your server that would steal healers from causal guilds once those casual guilds started to clear and gear. How many of you remember focusing on getting your healers pre-raid geared, then giving them hard carries and all the healer gear, for the next week they were raiding with the top guilds and shitting on the people who carried them? Those guilds hated losing their control of their servers in Wrath.
lol this doesnt happen nearly as often as youre trying to say. very very rare. shocker, people making shit up about good guilds because they dont like how they play
This happened in the rated BG community a lot over the years, the ladder cannibalised itself. Better teams would poach good players from worse teams and kill off their competition and would then even complain that they have nobody to queue into. Other times they'd use fly hack, lag hack, ddos attacks, stream sniping, queue sniping, win trading etc. And wonder why nobody took the bracket seriously. People just turn into NPCs who would rather go along with something they know is wrong than be the one to call it out for what it is and make a stand.
9:00+ is so true, most High Warlord players in Classic were hardstuck 1600-1900 arena players in Classic TBC. Vanilla was just a massive grind and timesink.
It's the same with arena though. Get the flowchart down and keep being persistent. If there's issue with comp then grind out a new comp, rinse and repeat. R14 is arguably more difficult because it takes a higher degree of coordination and persistence.
About the progress groups vs clear groups point, the problem is that about two weeks into a raids existence, there are usually no progress groups. Not in a sense that there are no people progressing, it's just that everyone will ask for you to be clear ready, even if they are not themselves clear ready and are essencially hijacking the weekly clear group trend to get boosted. This sucks for three reasons: -As a casual you just won't get in, as most groups are this. -As a clearer, you have to pray that the dude is genuine and is checking logs, RIO and stuff and not just letting randoms with curve in. -Now as a casual this makes you either learn to make-shift raid lead genuine progress runs, or get into real guild raiding, which turns a lot of people off from raiding due to several layers of commitment. I say this as a former guild raid leader and recruiter.
Then don't join pugs and go with a guild/community, this will never change and all the changes to alleviate that issue would have to make raid encounters massively simplified and thus more boring. You're not entitled to a perfect raid experience in a specific video game because you're a 40 year old boomer with 3 wifes, 22 kids and 5 jobs, different hobbies take a different amount of commitment and time and if you can't bring that you should think about a different hobby (or in the case of gaming just a different game).
@@k9tirion927 Now I would agree with you if this were about me, but it isn't. I prefer to play in a guild when I can and even if I can't, I have little to no problems getting curve and above by leading pugs. We are talking about casual players who either can't follow a regular schedule of a guild playstyle or can't pug properly, so their only leftover options are LFR which is so braindead that 5 year olds find it boring or to keep fishing for pugs in an artificially elitist community, which is what discussion is about. It's not about raid difficulties, it's not a gameplay issue, but a community issue, where people will feel entitled to easy runs and zero logistics on either side of the argument. There aren't many sensible solutions to this problem, other than fixing the community. Bonus Valor made people soft boost lowbies, so maybe something along those lines would help, but either way the community needs to get rid of the "in and out" mentality.
Honestly minmaxing will be the least of Wrath Classic's problems. The biggest issue Wrath Classic will have is the rise of GDKP's and the Pay 2 Win economy that will emerge once the realm transfers open up with the release of Ulduar.
Gdkp are not a problem and never will be. Stop inventing these ghost stories. The one and only problem is and will always be botting and buying gold. GDKP ARE NOT THE ISSUE
asmon definitely has the correct take on this, either play with likeminded people, or accept that the expectations of the other people isnt the same as yours, i think both are fine, i learned the hard way i cant expect others to be as tryhard as me but i also learned to turn that into enjoying helping others, idm if im carrying the raid its still a fun time with the boys and then in arena i get other likeminded people and push high end pvp
In regard to the conversation in the last few minutes, saying exploding emotionally in video games is better than exploding emotionally in real life is redundant to me. We are in real life every moment, if you're emotionally compromised playing a video game, you are emotionally compromised regardless. In an MMO like WoW these are "real life" experiences when you interact with another player, it's not fake life we are in real life playing a game in a shared experience.
Man, I quit WoW once I realized what I'd have to do to get to the level I saw others at. If that's what you like, more power to you, but it just felt like homework to me, and I don't game to feel like I'm doing homework.
Tbc during the prepatch was the most fun time in wow I ever had, I mained prot war, devastate and all the other goodies made everything feel so much better
Agreed, so long as they rebalance world content so that individual mobs are still challenging. One of the things I dislike about wrath is that while classes feel better, it feels very 'power crept' in that basically any class can fight 4 mobs at a time. I like the world to feel good for solo content.
@Federico Giuliano Agreed. Mana never made sense for hunters anyway, they are not magical. Even when focus didnt exist yet, they could have literally just used the energy systems from rogues. It just made perfect sense and i never understood why they didnt use that instead back then for hunters. Focus is basically energy, just a different word.
@Federico Giuliano I don't mind mana. This way if you have q braincells you can always be topped up enough as needed by juggling aspect of the viper efficiently. I don't even have drinks on my hunter, don't need it.
I remember going for the black proto drake back in wrath. The issue wasn't you as a individual, it was that you had to go through all of naxx 25 with 25 players where not a single person could die or you had to try again next week. Bumbles disconnected during Heigen or Thaddius? (Which was common due to how those fights taxed internet back then sometimes.) congrats, no point in finishing naxx. Or your on Kel'thuzad, and McChicken thinks is funny to kill the MC guy. Yeah, the immortal naxx achieve was the one that held everyone back from black proto, and that was because of that one little jimmy or something.
Min maxing in games is fine. I just don't like when people get so up themselves that they come to believe in it like some messed up religion. You know, refusing to play with people who are not min maxing and encouraging that behavior. Turning down someone who can fill the role needed for a group with no chance of actual failure just because they aren't optimal. I am not talking about 1 or 2 players. A guild or elite groups. I am talking about when an entire game buys into the idea that everyone has to be optimal or they won't play with them. Thats when it ruins the game. Idiots will literally wait around for an optimal party member for a pick up group because they don't understand that the optimal part was related to saving time on runs. Time they just wasted looking for optimal members.
I love being a min/max for myself but really it kills the social aspect to impose such a standard on any other player. I min / max so other players can depend on me not so I can be a meanie to them.
What I've been saying. The knowledge and tools we have now is different from then. Thottbot was our main source. RUclips was barely starting out. Classic + would help change this new era of 'running through content' yet, we all know how to 'min max' now. I think tier helps like the progression of raids for gear. Would be interesting to get Classic + with at least 2 new raids and 3 dungeons. And no Asmon, I agreed with you that people would run through it all fast in Classic in easy mode status LOL! When you first start a job or career in life, its new. When you have experience at that job, it's easy mode with all the knowledge of what to do going in.
Easy with that take, asking everyone to at least have some knowledge about a game they’re gonna be raiding on is a “bad mentality to retain new WoW players” according to some psychosocial expert.
no they aren't. everyone made fun of the gamestop guides back then. now the same people watch YT videos that are literally the same thing. you changed. the game didn't change. the options didn't change. you changed. stop blaming other stuff please
I made up my mind which class I want to play yesterday, and then created the character. He's level 10 now. It's gonna be fine, even if I do decide that I want to raid a bunch.
literally made a nelf warrior this time around because in classic did the whole min maxing the best race for which class it was and just trying to have fun this time around
MMORPG players call themselves "tough" for grinding the game for 10 hours a day. They take pride in wasting their time doing repetetive boring stuff over and over. What a fucking joke.
Why video game at all then? It's all just repetitive content that you grind for 10 hours a day and get nothing in return. Do you not play video games? If you do, you're a joke who is wasting your own time.
There is one big difference between a casual in group of minmaxers and minmaxer in group of casuals. When casual shows up without the buffs, he hurts everyone just by existing. Takes up a slot, deals less damage, group expects damage, everyone time is being wasted and enjoyment sucked out. When minmaxer shows up with all the buffs, he hurts nobody and in fact - helps the group out psasively. He then has to get mad and start causing problems on personal levels, go out of his way to be toxic, to match the "damage" to the group that casual causes in opposite scenario. So i think generally casuals are worse in the context. Because it does not matter if casual is entitled or means well, the end result is the same, so more of them become a problem.
If I still played that dogshit game, which is a joke at this point I'd play like I did back in wrath or any mmo now...for fun. Now don't get me wrong I watched tankspot for boss fights, I did occasionally read what a proper mage rotation was supposed to be but often I couldn't care less if I remember one spell in front of the other and just played how I wanted. Spoiler you can still play the game, kill mobs and bosses, and progress fine without acting like some basement nerd.
This is how I min-max: find a group of ppl I enjoy playing or get together with old friends, and shit as we want. Impossible to lose this way. Also, while solo playing, have some background music Heroes of might and magic 3 & 4, Morrowind soundtracks
totally agree about classic plus being vanilla but with wrath class design and some of it's QOL stuff. I want that too. The vanilla wow world was the best.
i just started playing wotlk first time playing the official wow and im enjoying it so far not worrying about min maxing or leveling up fast just enjoying the game i like it so far
So I haven't watched too much of him, but I feel like Asmon has actually contradicted himself in a good way. Was just watching his BC raids and they notice a guy has horrible gems slotted. They definitely laughed and jabbed the dude, but then Asmon moved him into Olympus and asked for a buddy to show him the ropes and get him gemed up. Was a super cool thing. Busted his chops and built him back up. Loved it.
The problem is that at this point even the most casual players already know how to minmax, so then, I, as a casual don't want to minmax, it actually feels like I am willingly playing bad just for the sake of proving the point. There is no way back.
I like minmaxing but I dont get angry or annoyed with people that don't do it or dislike it, why would I be? I'm having fun playing the game the way I like and they do the same, we both enjoy the game just in different ways.
14:16 There's something that I haven't thought about in a long time. I remember my brother finding that and having to read it out of a document like it was the old MapQuest route guides.
wildstar: one of their key people came over from Pirates of the Burning Sea after they failed to make that into a good hardcore PVP game, even though they had *no* competition. No one else was making an age of sail pvp game. That's why it didn't work out. They hired clowns.
Rather than admit the talent trees were superior they instead released 6 expansions with trash talents, gave birth to the cancer that is overwatch, and let their playerbase dwindle to a few thousand. Now when the competition is beating down the door and classic wow has eclipsed retail it's finally time to admit you were wrong.
In retail when I make a group for a dungeon, I can set parameters for Skill Level, Item Level, Goal of the run itself and more. How this doesn’t exist in a re hashed version of a 10+ year old expansion is laughable. Blizz does not care about player experience only the money. If they did, they would’ve implemented all these things in the WOTLK RDF.
I have to disagree with your wants for the future Asmongold. I doubt he'll actually read this comment. I want access to Outland and Northrend in Classic+ if that becomes the thing. Why not have all that content? I think they should stop it at Lich King, then ADD content to the original world to bring people back to those places. Maybe update the loot tables/mob levels in old world zones. But I like BC and LK zones, Id rather keep them, and the class designs, then have good reasons to revisit the old world. Hopefully he sees this and reconsiders his position.
No one should comment on High Warlords difficulty to achieve unless they achieved it. Without premade groups, which you can’t suck to be in the best ones, you won’t get high warlord on almost all servers. Maybe on a very low pop. But not almost all.
I came back to classic wotlk after being away since Cata and luckily I found casual guild where people dont meta and minmax everything, cant wait for Wotlk raids!
Casuals weren't the problem. Bad Players were the problem. Uld was great, but Bad Players cried and squealed until Blizzard caved in and changed the game to make Uld completely irrelevant and the next tier of content ridiculously easy.
Honestly, I wonder if it would be feasible to run several patches of WoW simultaneously, like there would be a realm of vanilla WoW from 2007, then there would be a Wrath from patch 3.3.5 or something and then Classic that would progress further and further. I think all of the servers would get their hardcore enjoyers and it would be a win/win scenario as people with pre-paid WoW will be likely to play Shadowlands and Dragonlands too, so the realms would be populated just the way they were at the game's peak and Blizzard would make sh*tload of money out of it, meaning the next expansions might be even better. All of it for a cost of running a couple extra realms, that were designed to run on 2008 hardware.
@@almstormrage3790 Then why do so many people want to play it? I wouldn't play vanilla TBC, but I still think WotLK 3.3.5 was the most fun and it should be playable forever as it is the peak of the game's playstyle, which went all downhill from Cataclysm. Original TBC, maybe even original release has many hardcore followers too, so I think it should be playable forever as well.
@@almstormrage3790 Also, you might not get my point as new releases of WoW have many things that are done right, my main problem is, that since 2012 or so the game's system requirements apparently dropped the need for a brain. Don't get me wrong, I like the fast levelling and ability to focus on high level dungeons and farming PvP gear, but it's missing something. I just hit level 30 on a mage and I have 4K gold just from questing alone. Back in WotLK I had barely enough to upp my skills and I just loved the feeling of setting up a new character and having to think about what I have to do to flourish. Nowadays you just watch a few guides, everything is for free and you leave your brain at toilet seat. What about some challenge? I know it comes with higher level dungeons, but what about some procedurally added unpredictability? I would love to see dungeons, where bosses have randomly swapped abilities and you have to develop strategy right in the dungeon every time you get there or be able to either level up with quest helper and dungeon finder in WotLK or if you get a mood for some hard core grinding, just set up a new character and get lost in TBC without any of that and finally use your brain. I feel like modern game development focuses on immediate gratification without a need for brain. Let's change that and give players an option to really satisfy your intellectual side as well and leave them to struggle through unmapped, ever changing terrains as well.
If you are not raiding with a group of people you like - not raiding because you want to game with a group of people you like - you are probably doing it wrong. Everything else is secondary.
As a kid, i left Lineage C3 to play TBC because it felt more of an adventure. And not having the information we have now, was mind-blowing to me the things we discovered with my friends. Then comes Wrath, where you can face the biggest enemy of this universe you had from the strategy games. On WoD, i rejoined the saga and played till 9.2. tried classic, tried TBC again... The passion isn't there anymore. I guess we're "adults" now, LoL
I played both L2 and WoW. L2 will always win. The systems are just better. Castle sieges and open world bosses will always be better than instanced participation trophy raiding. Imo. However I had fun in both games and both games have pros and cons.
@@joshholmes1372 exactly. The hype to learn this world as a solo unit,being "familiar" with mmo's from other games, was off the roof!! I'm not saying I'm looking for the same feeling now, but that's simply because I have no faith in the industry. It's not cause I'm older. I still enjoy going to internet cafe's with friends and play Lan LOTR battle for middle earth from EA. It is because all they care nowadays is how to grab your money with cosmetics, subs, in-game systems and other bullshit. Gaming is supposed to be a relief, not a secondary job from your free time.
@@SeksyTimes I only took part in one PROPER siege as a gladiator with my newly crafted dle*dle swords and i had so much fun slaying leather wearers. One of the best PvP experiences of my life. I still remember it to this day
The main issue I have with parse is you can do the most dps, or be the top heals, avoid all the mechanics, and still be grey lmao. Parses are a joke, and the people that invest in using them as a way to "build the perfect team" are an even bigger joke.
Min/Max is more complicated topic then just pick what you like, it is like addiction , nature of humans, there are people who enjoy min max , but they are far less then how many people follow this trend, making them burn out and not enjoy gameplay in process.
I min max so hard now I don't even play anymore. I go on a trade site before I even role the character I'm about to. Trade for the absolute best gear in the game for the build I'm about to make then have someone make a account and rush the character I want to have leveled then once they are done I use the shared stash and just put the gear on it and now all I do is log on and look ad my bad azz godliest min maxed character on the server 😉
the furthest I got in original WoW is 4 bosses into MC. We were the #3 guild on our server (our server never cleared NAXX before BC). I cleared MC in a PUG group on classic WoW.... was very disappointing... learning raids is kind of ruined when everyone knows the raids. One of the few great moments in original is our first full clear of ZG... was only 4 or 5 guilds doing that on our server.... classic WoW ZG was a bug instance not a raid, and there was no accomplishments to anything.... mainly because of 20 years of refinement of original raids on private servers. The fun of the old school was the mystery... walk into a raid and it's completely new.. Is why I like side progression with slight vertical... maybe it's better when only 0.1% of people complete a raid. Because for 0.1% of people thet're gods. For 99.9% of people, they have something to aspire to. Easy modes (IDK what WoW devolved to but SWTOR devolved to solo-raids for story mode and they're basically star wars WoW).... I think the original WoW team was wrong... they felt bad only 0.1% of people got to see their final raid. That was what made it epic and special. For everyone, including the people that didn't get there.... I will never know NAXX.... BC stole that from me. And so MMOs age and die...
"You just play the continent that gets added into the game" is EXACTLY what I've been saying for years. They have plenty of worldspace that they can evolve and grow rather than making a new area every expansion.
People really need to understand the difference between tedium and time investment. Vanilla and even TBC to many extents, is just tedium to get into content. Not because it makes sense, but because fuck you, spend hours doing something that should have been accessible to begin with.
I remember when Classic was announced I laughed at all the elitist comments: "Haha, I can't wait for retail babies trying the real challenge. They will quit within a week."
I pugged into a guild raid once. I was not a min/maxer, but I could pump heals. They begged me to join their guild because they couldnt find healers. Their raid times fit so I joined, and after a month they were on my ass for not grinding out my legendary to its max level or doing max keys for the chest. This was because I hated Torghast and wasnt a big fan of M+, I just wanted to raid and do some pvp. Though with the lowest level legendary I still outhealed everyone and made mistakes extremely rarely so replacing me was not a popular opinion. Point of the story, know your class and dont die, with decent gear you will be just fine.
Wrong. One asshat can choose to do it of his own Accord, and only allow other people to join him if they do it too. That's how metas form. Turns into asking for minmax, or you don't play.
This is the same guy that laughs at people for playing human priests. Back in vanilla he probably would have laughed at dwarf priests because that was the prevailing "meta" at the time.
Asmon isn't a minmaxer. His dps is ass, his achievement progression isn't speed based, he doesn't speedrun anything. Why does he think he minmaxes anything.
Not a participation reward. Time would be a dedication reward. Some players put their lives into these games and that should be worth something. Twitch skills are for the young and competitive gamers and should not be what defines a good player. Unless there is a tournament. You can be a really good player and be toxic to the game an community.
Idk I never cared about all that 'hardcore" stuff and the way it is said in the vid... I just think alot of the grind and mechanics are just a waste of time, especially nowadays... theres so many better games to play that don't waste your time... we have already experienced this, a brand new experience will always be more fun no matter wich game it is, you need to renew the experience like asmon said many times.
I gave up on WoW… literally wanted nothing more than to play classic wrath or cata. Yet I was perma banned bc I’d been suspended 3 times in the previous year. Permabanned bc I called a cheater a “pussy ass safespotting cheater” and stated in trade that I play with anyone in arena. I said i play with “bad gear/bad skill/ bad comp” players
the biggest problem with the min max "mentality" is that thats all that it is to most players a mentality and nothing more, the same people enforcing meta and perfect gear arent even in the best gear themselves and are playing just as poorly as the rest of the playerbase, its asmongold and those players that make the community look bad while not even being at the standard that they set for everyone else around them, when was the last time asmongold achieved anything of value in this game anyway? and yet he and the people who rushed to 80 has that same mentality of "be good or kick" what a joke
Love the idea I’ve a vanilla classic but with wrath updates . Played all through vanilla classic and loved it . Played prettt much every day for 2 years then just got a little burnt out . Tried tbc through ssc then just stopped . I just don’t care for all the addons that you need and mounts , rep, etc should be account wide 100 percent . And no charge for respec like admin said . If they did this I would totally come back. Those changes would be awesome for classic
It's bullshit when you say OG vanilla was easy tho because when classic dropped everyone knew all about appropriate stats and had guides etc which is a huge advantage. Back in the day many players grinded class dung set and that was the entry requirement for MC guilds now we know that those sets are crap and individual items are better etc so playing with that huge advantage obviously it's easier obviously you could have got the same stuff back in the day but you just didn't know that was better then. To join my first raiding guild I had to have 8/8 dung set and that guild ended up progressing into majority of naxx on farm. Plus classic wasn't same as vanilla there was some improvements eg stealth
i remember back in the days vanilla -> cata. buying the montly wow magazine at my local bluckbuster. on how best to level and level up proffesion. talking about best class / gear for each spec
As a new player to the game who really struggled to get into it and keep entertained through the leveling process ( it's an insane grind that I find to be tedious, unfulfilling and very unnecessary) I have also wanted to have an endgame WoW character with awesome gear since I knew about it many years ago, the "prestige" of it drew me in, and the knowlege that an endgame player knows the intricacies of their class and the complexities of various encounters that are not easy to complete. So im grinding through the levels now because I always quit before I even hit level 50. One reason I level slowly is because I play solo, due to the fact that I know so many of the groups that run dungeons know exactly how to do these encounters and know how to get the bosses done quickly. I also know that many wow players who run dungeons are elitist fucks who don't tolerate someone learning either their class or the encounter, so it makes a game that I struggle to enjoy hard to play, and also hard to want to break into the more social aspects knowing that those longtime players are out there. If I do meet a player who is being a prik because I had to learn or made a mistake then its very plausible ill get banned. Because I'm not a gracious person and when you get up in arms about zeroes and ones, fake shit on a 2d screen then I'll sooner be a really mean person then let it roll on because of the endgame character desire. So I play solo. Only really grouping up with some longtime friends who have all played this game for years so they can fill me in on important things.
"These players never got gladiator..blahblah.. pathetic". Yup... triggered. It's called player choice. Dont assume someones skill is sh*t because they don't engage in PvP. I did competitive FPS'ing for years (leagues) way before WoW was even released... and it was the friggin opposite why I never took part in it, it wasn't fair or balanced vs classes, numbers vs numbers.. and almost RNG.. which was weak sauce for me and not skill based enough _THATS_ why I didn't do PvP. And as for us being "carried" in raids.. Actually it was pretty much the opposite for me. Thats how raids were (generally)... about 20% of players are actually skilled in a raid, the rest are usually carried.
I have an example. I have played this game since original bc and know nearly every aspect of it up to shadowlands. I have a friend who just started playing for the first time when classic launches. When bc came out he leveled, joined a group who was looking for a dps for a heroic dungeon, was then made fun of and kicked for not having gemmed his gear. He then quit and only now came back. The problem was he didnt know how gems worked. I was able to explain them to him and now he is good, but the group who invited him should have advertised as needing a dps that was fully optimal. If you are pugging randoms you have to accept the fact that you may get new players, and if you truly love the game and want it to grow to new people, then it is your responsibility to explain how things work. Be a mentor. Be someone these new players can look up to and strive to be. Either that or when you advertise for pugs make it clear what you are looking for because a lot of these systems that us who have played the game for years consider easy to understand may be confusing to the new player.
I hate to say it because I'm biased towards xiv, but they need to take a page from xiv's book on how this is done. Have a group finder that has a preset option to go into a fight as practice, certain phases, or if you just want a clear and can only join if you've completed and fit criteria. Yes, sometimes people squeak through but it's better than putting all of the work on the players to relegate other players. Give us the option to set up a brand new prog, for practice runs only. It's a huge help when I hop into xiv after a break and want to check in on some newer stuff. I can join up a practice prog pug and feel comfortable that I'm not the odd one out.
your friend has a spine made of jelly, quit after you get booted once?
@@taylon5200 and xiv has a much more respectful and positive community
@@riner9 who cares? People can like different things. It's what makes us unique. The world would be boring as fuck if we all thought the same, and liked the same things.
@@riner9 I don't think weeb means what you think it means. They're dorks yes, but I wouldn't call them weebs. To be a weeb you have to have a strong admiration for japanese culture, to the extent you want to learn japanese, eat their foods, and adopt some of their culture. FFXIV is pretty western aesthetically. (Granted most self described weebs confuse being obsessed with manga and anime as being weeb, but there's a lot more to it than that)
Fun fact for those who didn't catch the stream live:
The reason there's a cut at 7:35 is because Asmon's internet cut out for like 5 minutes LITERALLY RIGHT AS WILLE WAS TALKING ABOUT LOSING CONNECTION AND LOSING GEAR IN RUNESCAPE.
Actually one of the most spectacular "timing" moments I've witnessed on twitch
oh yea that was hilarious lmao
Classic really confirmed my beliefs that most people care more about their own personal dps meters/logs more than just wanting to kill the boss. The world buff meta was hilarious. Imagine requiring all the raid buffs and bis for LFR. That's what classic is. All they care about is parses. So weird.
Yeah world buffs/parsing on a boss with no mechanics and a 1 button rotation is the most bizarre thing about classic
Pvers attacking a.i and sweating has always been strange
To be honest, it's not always this simple. For example, some people don't want to care about logs and good parses but find out they might have to present good logs to even be considered, let alone have a decent chance to find a guild or even a half decent PUG to raid. I play on a medium pop server and I've seen it a lot how people with no logs or just average logs struggle being invited to a PUG raid at all. Not so much an issue on big servers, from what I hear, but on medium pop servers with less PUGs to begin with, people often find without good parses, they stand little to no chance to be invited to a raid unless they have a friend who knows the leader and can get them in. It's not great but this is what logs have brought us I guess.
This is what killed classic for me. Too sweaty. Wanted to try out smite priest in TBC since it was viable, and just never got a chance. Everyone was concerned with the meta. Most people just did not want to try anything new. In a fifteen year old game.
As a new player to classic, and a fairly new player to wow in general (played legion for 3 months and then left), I feel like Asmon hits the nail on the head at the end. I'm enjoying my leveling experience in classic, and when I get to end-game content, I will be looking for a guild/like-minded players that are willing to let me learn and progress alongside me. I'm sad I didn't get to experience WoW until my mid 20's.
Hey don't be sad you missed vanilla wow. Be glad that you found classic and are now having fun with other players. It's always better to be glad then sad. I wish you much fun out there and be safe. :)
I had no money to play WoW at it's prime, here I am at 34 yo finally have a chance to play it for the first time, I feel it's going to be painful lol
Exactly. I do quests, sometimes dungeon and i do not expect much of it. But maaaan, i am not sure who is sitting behind some of the chars, but immediately something unexpected happens in their frame of expectation, they rage like crazy. We did chill time dungeon few days ago and on the halk way one of the guys announced that he need to check on his kid after cuurent pull. 4 people ok with that, it is normal human thing right? And healer just f here f there and quit. Guy returned, asked where is healer, we made few jokes and quit the dung. No hard feelings. I am not sure why some of the people try hard so hard :) I would just appreciate some indicator of casual vs. try hard, cause i would not definetly join try hard group of people. :)
@@tomasdoubek yeah "casual" option severs would be good
"I want to have Wrath class design, with classic world design" This is what I've been wanting from classic and classic+ the whole time. I doubt blizz would ever do it, but I feel like that would be the perfect goal for classic going forward.
I came back to WoW from a year long break in 2009 right when ICC released. I needed something to do during rehab after surgery. I decided to roll a Hunter on a new play server and just enjoy the leveling and make a point to read lore and quest text.
I managed to lvl to 80 without setting foot in a dungeon. I purposely avoided it.
Well, I ding 80 and the game lets me know about this new RDF feature, and I thought, hey, I had no intention to play at max level but let’s try this.
About four pulls in I get asked by the tank to turn my pet taunt off. Having only soloed to that point, I had no need to turn it off, and this, had no idea how. So I break down and admit “how do I do that?”
One snarky SOB said “someone e-bayed his character” damn near instantly. Fortunately being a veteran of the game, just not Hunter in group content at that point, I was able to let it slide.
The tank was nice enough to let me know to right click the pet bar to remove the gold-swirly-thingy. So I did and the run goes smoothly as silk from there.
The lesson there is that it took next to no time to answer a simple question, help the group out, and improve everyone’s experience. I went on the play my Hunter hardcore for three years after that dungeon.
The "Welfare" haters in wrath were the same few top guilds on your server that would steal healers from causal guilds once those casual guilds started to clear and gear. How many of you remember focusing on getting your healers pre-raid geared, then giving them hard carries and all the healer gear, for the next week they were raiding with the top guilds and shitting on the people who carried them? Those guilds hated losing their control of their servers in Wrath.
lol this doesnt happen nearly as often as youre trying to say. very very rare. shocker, people making shit up about good guilds because they dont like how they play
Literally never happened to me?
@@SD78 yes. I believe you are lying.
@@SHITSWEEEK Literally never happened once. You must have been a Bad Player in a bad guild.
This happened in the rated BG community a lot over the years, the ladder cannibalised itself. Better teams would poach good players from worse teams and kill off their competition and would then even complain that they have nobody to queue into.
Other times they'd use fly hack, lag hack, ddos attacks, stream sniping, queue sniping, win trading etc. And wonder why nobody took the bracket seriously.
People just turn into NPCs who would rather go along with something they know is wrong than be the one to call it out for what it is and make a stand.
9:00+ is so true, most High Warlord players in Classic were hardstuck 1600-1900 arena players in Classic TBC. Vanilla was just a massive grind and timesink.
It's the same with arena though. Get the flowchart down and keep being persistent. If there's issue with comp then grind out a new comp, rinse and repeat. R14 is arguably more difficult because it takes a higher degree of coordination and persistence.
About the progress groups vs clear groups point, the problem is that about two weeks into a raids existence, there are usually no progress groups. Not in a sense that there are no people progressing, it's just that everyone will ask for you to be clear ready, even if they are not themselves clear ready and are essencially hijacking the weekly clear group trend to get boosted. This sucks for three reasons:
-As a casual you just won't get in, as most groups are this.
-As a clearer, you have to pray that the dude is genuine and is checking logs, RIO and stuff and not just letting randoms with curve in.
-Now as a casual this makes you either learn to make-shift raid lead genuine progress runs, or get into real guild raiding, which turns a lot of people off from raiding due to several layers of commitment. I say this as a former guild raid leader and recruiter.
Then don't join pugs and go with a guild/community, this will never change and all the changes to alleviate that issue would have to make raid encounters massively simplified and thus more boring.
You're not entitled to a perfect raid experience in a specific video game because you're a 40 year old boomer with 3 wifes, 22 kids and 5 jobs, different hobbies take a different amount of commitment and time and if you can't bring that you should think about a different hobby (or in the case of gaming just a different game).
@@k9tirion927 Now I would agree with you if this were about me, but it isn't. I prefer to play in a guild when I can and even if I can't, I have little to no problems getting curve and above by leading pugs.
We are talking about casual players who either can't follow a regular schedule of a guild playstyle or can't pug properly, so their only leftover options are LFR which is so braindead that 5 year olds find it boring or to keep fishing for pugs in an artificially elitist community, which is what discussion is about. It's not about raid difficulties, it's not a gameplay issue, but a community issue, where people will feel entitled to easy runs and zero logistics on either side of the argument. There aren't many sensible solutions to this problem, other than fixing the community. Bonus Valor made people soft boost lowbies, so maybe something along those lines would help, but either way the community needs to get rid of the "in and out" mentality.
Honestly minmaxing will be the least of Wrath Classic's problems. The biggest issue Wrath Classic will have is the rise of GDKP's and the Pay 2 Win economy that will emerge once the realm transfers open up with the release of Ulduar.
Gdkp are not a problem and never will be. Stop inventing these ghost stories. The one and only problem is and will always be botting and buying gold. GDKP ARE NOT THE ISSUE
@@VincentDebus Gee, I wonder why there are so many gold farming bots and why so many people buy gold.
@@LihoShammy they would be there if gdkp were banned as well, don't be delusional
asmon definitely has the correct take on this, either play with likeminded people, or accept that the expectations of the other people isnt the same as yours, i think both are fine, i learned the hard way i cant expect others to be as tryhard as me but i also learned to turn that into enjoying helping others, idm if im carrying the raid its still a fun time with the boys
and then in arena i get other likeminded people and push high end pvp
your checklist should include a fresh set of branded Sweat Bands
In regard to the conversation in the last few minutes, saying exploding emotionally in video games is better than exploding emotionally in real life is redundant to me. We are in real life every moment, if you're emotionally compromised playing a video game, you are emotionally compromised regardless. In an MMO like WoW these are "real life" experiences when you interact with another player, it's not fake life we are in real life playing a game in a shared experience.
"I always min max" .....doesn't socket his gear because it's not best in slot
Man, I quit WoW once I realized what I'd have to do to get to the level I saw others at. If that's what you like, more power to you, but it just felt like homework to me, and I don't game to feel like I'm doing homework.
Classic world with WoTLK class design is the ideal combination for Classic +
Tbc during the prepatch was the most fun time in wow I ever had, I mained prot war, devastate and all the other goodies made everything feel so much better
Agreed, so long as they rebalance world content so that individual mobs are still challenging. One of the things I dislike about wrath is that while classes feel better, it feels very 'power crept' in that basically any class can fight 4 mobs at a time. I like the world to feel good for solo content.
@Federico Giuliano Agreed. Mana never made sense for hunters anyway, they are not magical. Even when focus didnt exist yet, they could have literally just used the energy systems from rogues. It just made perfect sense and i never understood why they didnt use that instead back then for hunters. Focus is basically energy, just a different word.
@Federico Giuliano I don't mind mana. This way if you have q braincells you can always be topped up enough as needed by juggling aspect of the viper efficiently. I don't even have drinks on my hunter, don't need it.
I remember going for the black proto drake back in wrath. The issue wasn't you as a individual, it was that you had to go through all of naxx 25 with 25 players where not a single person could die or you had to try again next week. Bumbles disconnected during Heigen or Thaddius? (Which was common due to how those fights taxed internet back then sometimes.) congrats, no point in finishing naxx. Or your on Kel'thuzad, and McChicken thinks is funny to kill the MC guy. Yeah, the immortal naxx achieve was the one that held everyone back from black proto, and that was because of that one little jimmy or something.
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Min maxing in games is fine. I just don't like when people get so up themselves that they come to believe in it like some messed up religion. You know, refusing to play with people who are not min maxing and encouraging that behavior. Turning down someone who can fill the role needed for a group with no chance of actual failure just because they aren't optimal.
I am not talking about 1 or 2 players. A guild or elite groups. I am talking about when an entire game buys into the idea that everyone has to be optimal or they won't play with them. Thats when it ruins the game. Idiots will literally wait around for an optimal party member for a pick up group because they don't understand that the optimal part was related to saving time on runs. Time they just wasted looking for optimal members.
Ah yes, the PoE community
I love being a min/max for myself but really it kills the social aspect to impose such a standard on any other player. I min / max so other players can depend on me not so I can be a meanie to them.
What I've been saying. The knowledge and tools we have now is different from then. Thottbot was our main source. RUclips was barely starting out. Classic + would help change this new era of 'running through content' yet, we all know how to 'min max' now. I think tier helps like the progression of raids for gear. Would be interesting to get Classic + with at least 2 new raids and 3 dungeons. And no Asmon, I agreed with you that people would run through it all fast in Classic in easy mode status LOL! When you first start a job or career in life, its new. When you have experience at that job, it's easy mode with all the knowledge of what to do going in.
@@trignite Agreed. The knowledge aka experience we have. No one can un-see or un-experience that path we have already traveled.
Easy with that take, asking everyone to at least have some knowledge about a game they’re gonna be raiding on is a “bad mentality to retain new WoW players” according to some psychosocial expert.
@@Keklmaololhehe True and real.
@@cattysplat But of course.
no they aren't. everyone made fun of the gamestop guides back then. now the same people watch YT videos that are literally the same thing. you changed. the game didn't change. the options didn't change. you changed. stop blaming other stuff please
The classic community is horrendous thats the biggest issue with classic
Asmon is the biggest perpetrator of shaming people that don't play like him.
When I used to play, my paladin had full Judgement with the Fire Tabard. It was a match made in heaven and looked great.
I made up my mind which class I want to play yesterday, and then created the character. He's level 10 now. It's gonna be fine, even if I do decide that I want to raid a bunch.
literally made a nelf warrior this time around because in classic did the whole min maxing the best race for which class it was and just trying to have fun this time around
MMORPG players call themselves "tough" for grinding the game for 10 hours a day. They take pride in wasting their time doing repetetive boring stuff over and over. What a fucking joke.
bunch of freaks
@@leafarasta4517 >no argument
Just what I expected.
Why video game at all then? It's all just repetitive content that you grind for 10 hours a day and get nothing in return. Do you not play video games? If you do, you're a joke who is wasting your own time.
@@adamarzo559 Such a dumb comment. Most games aren't grindy and you don't repeat the same content in them 100 times.
@@jacqli69 what do you play ?
Remember having to travel to razor fin as a low level horde. Just to enter the the damn instance.
Vanilla with wrath class design needs to have re-written inscription just for the glyphs or there will be some more unexpected class imbalance
There is one big difference between a casual in group of minmaxers and minmaxer in group of casuals.
When casual shows up without the buffs, he hurts everyone just by existing. Takes up a slot, deals less damage, group expects damage, everyone time is being wasted and enjoyment sucked out.
When minmaxer shows up with all the buffs, he hurts nobody and in fact - helps the group out psasively. He then has to get mad and start causing problems on personal levels, go out of his way to be toxic, to match the "damage" to the group that casual causes in opposite scenario.
So i think generally casuals are worse in the context. Because it does not matter if casual is entitled or means well, the end result is the same, so more of them become a problem.
If I still played that dogshit game, which is a joke at this point I'd play like I did back in wrath or any mmo now...for fun. Now don't get me wrong I watched tankspot for boss fights, I did occasionally read what a proper mage rotation was supposed to be but often I couldn't care less if I remember one spell in front of the other and just played how I wanted. Spoiler you can still play the game, kill mobs and bosses, and progress fine without acting like some basement nerd.
This is how I min-max: find a group of ppl I enjoy playing or get together with old friends, and shit as we want. Impossible to lose this way. Also, while solo playing, have some background music Heroes of might and magic 3 & 4, Morrowind soundtracks
totally agree about classic plus being vanilla but with wrath class design and some of it's QOL stuff. I want that too. The vanilla wow world was the best.
i just started playing wotlk first time playing the official wow and im enjoying it so far not worrying about min maxing or leveling up fast just enjoying the game i like it so far
6:36 - 100% agree with classic worldbuilding + wrath classes/specs
maybe the quality of life changes too
im not told to, i just like trying to improve anyway i can. some people just have that kind of mentality.
So I haven't watched too much of him, but I feel like Asmon has actually contradicted himself in a good way. Was just watching his BC raids and they notice a guy has horrible gems slotted. They definitely laughed and jabbed the dude, but then Asmon moved him into Olympus and asked for a buddy to show him the ropes and get him gemed up. Was a super cool thing. Busted his chops and built him back up. Loved it.
The problem is that at this point even the most casual players already know how to minmax, so then, I, as a casual don't want to minmax, it actually feels like I am willingly playing bad just for the sake of proving the point. There is no way back.
I had the ironbound proto drake, and i had the grand crusader title and specifically said it was turning in to casual craft. Guess i'm the outlier.
I like minmaxing but I dont get angry or annoyed with people that don't do it or dislike it, why would I be? I'm having fun playing the game the way I like and they do the same, we both enjoy the game just in different ways.
You say that until an ungemmed hpally wins your BiS crit/haste cloth gear KEKW
@1:08 who else found their cursor automagically moving to click the fishing lure ....
14:16 There's something that I haven't thought about in a long time. I remember my brother finding that and having to read it out of a document like it was the old MapQuest route guides.
Wildstar raiding was the best. Such a good game when they fixed it.
wildstar: one of their key people came over from Pirates of the Burning Sea after they failed to make that into a good hardcore PVP game, even though they had *no* competition. No one else was making an age of sail pvp game.
That's why it didn't work out. They hired clowns.
Rather than admit the talent trees were superior they instead released 6 expansions with trash talents, gave birth to the cancer that is overwatch, and let their playerbase dwindle to a few thousand.
Now when the competition is beating down the door and classic wow has eclipsed retail it's finally time to admit you were wrong.
overwatch did well and is liked, there are more than a few thousand players, and classic is much smaller than retail
@@TRAMP-oline incorrect
@@gaexionbeoulve2422 it's whatever you want to believe
In retail when I make a group for a dungeon, I can set parameters for Skill Level, Item Level, Goal of the run itself and more. How this doesn’t exist in a re hashed version of a 10+ year old expansion is laughable. Blizz does not care about player experience only the money. If they did, they would’ve implemented all these things in the WOTLK RDF.
I have to disagree with your wants for the future Asmongold. I doubt he'll actually read this comment. I want access to Outland and Northrend in Classic+ if that becomes the thing.
Why not have all that content? I think they should stop it at Lich King, then ADD content to the original world to bring people back to those places. Maybe update the loot tables/mob levels in old world zones. But I like BC and LK zones, Id rather keep them, and the class designs, then have good reasons to revisit the old world.
Hopefully he sees this and reconsiders his position.
Video games are an outlet. Asmon recognizes it, but gatekeeps the hell out of it based on his own experience in his own emotional outburst.
No one should comment on High Warlords difficulty to achieve unless they achieved it. Without premade groups, which you can’t suck to be in the best ones, you won’t get high warlord on almost all servers. Maybe on a very low pop. But not almost all.
why did people make night elf warriors because of swifty? were there some kind of bonuses he highlighted for it?
I came back to classic wotlk after being away since Cata and luckily I found casual guild where people dont meta and minmax everything, cant wait for Wotlk raids!
Casuals weren't the problem. Bad Players were the problem.
Uld was great, but Bad Players cried and squealed until Blizzard caved in and changed the game to make Uld completely irrelevant and the next tier of content ridiculously easy.
Honestly, I wonder if it would be feasible to run several patches of WoW simultaneously, like there would be a realm of vanilla WoW from 2007, then there would be a Wrath from patch 3.3.5 or something and then Classic that would progress further and further. I think all of the servers would get their hardcore enjoyers and it would be a win/win scenario as people with pre-paid WoW will be likely to play Shadowlands and Dragonlands too, so the realms would be populated just the way they were at the game's peak and Blizzard would make sh*tload of money out of it, meaning the next expansions might be even better. All of it for a cost of running a couple extra realms, that were designed to run on 2008 hardware.
Retail wow is not fun, its trash bro, thats the major problem.
@@almstormrage3790 Then why do so many people want to play it? I wouldn't play vanilla TBC, but I still think WotLK 3.3.5 was the most fun and it should be playable forever as it is the peak of the game's playstyle, which went all downhill from Cataclysm. Original TBC, maybe even original release has many hardcore followers too, so I think it should be playable forever as well.
@@almstormrage3790 Also, you might not get my point as new releases of WoW have many things that are done right, my main problem is, that since 2012 or so the game's system requirements apparently dropped the need for a brain. Don't get me wrong, I like the fast levelling and ability to focus on high level dungeons and farming PvP gear, but it's missing something. I just hit level 30 on a mage and I have 4K gold just from questing alone. Back in WotLK I had barely enough to upp my skills and I just loved the feeling of setting up a new character and having to think about what I have to do to flourish. Nowadays you just watch a few guides, everything is for free and you leave your brain at toilet seat. What about some challenge? I know it comes with higher level dungeons, but what about some procedurally added unpredictability? I would love to see dungeons, where bosses have randomly swapped abilities and you have to develop strategy right in the dungeon every time you get there or be able to either level up with quest helper and dungeon finder in WotLK or if you get a mood for some hard core grinding, just set up a new character and get lost in TBC without any of that and finally use your brain. I feel like modern game development focuses on immediate gratification without a need for brain. Let's change that and give players an option to really satisfy your intellectual side as well and leave them to struggle through unmapped, ever changing terrains as well.
If you are not raiding with a group of people you like - not raiding because you want to game with a group of people you like - you are probably doing it wrong. Everything else is secondary.
Wrath class design in the classic world. I'd play that
As a kid, i left Lineage C3 to play TBC because it felt more of an adventure. And not having the information we have now, was mind-blowing to me the things we discovered with my friends. Then comes Wrath, where you can face the biggest enemy of this universe you had from the strategy games. On WoD, i rejoined the saga and played till 9.2. tried classic, tried TBC again... The passion isn't there anymore. I guess we're "adults" now, LoL
Real life responsibility and the lack of wonder nad discovery. Only has nostalgia going for it
I played both L2 and WoW. L2 will always win. The systems are just better. Castle sieges and open world bosses will always be better than instanced participation trophy raiding. Imo. However I had fun in both games and both games have pros and cons.
@@joshholmes1372 exactly. The hype to learn this world as a solo unit,being "familiar" with mmo's from other games, was off the roof!! I'm not saying I'm looking for the same feeling now, but that's simply because I have no faith in the industry. It's not cause I'm older. I still enjoy going to internet cafe's with friends and play Lan LOTR battle for middle earth from EA. It is because all they care nowadays is how to grab your money with cosmetics, subs, in-game systems and other bullshit. Gaming is supposed to be a relief, not a secondary job from your free time.
@@SeksyTimes I only took part in one PROPER siege as a gladiator with my newly crafted dle*dle swords and i had so much fun slaying leather wearers. One of the best PvP experiences of my life. I still remember it to this day
@@roronoa92 and then you ran into a full S-grade Necro that 1-shotted you with a 15k magic crit. Ah those were the days.
Wildstar was an amazing gem in the rough. Terribly managed but the guts were way better than WoW.
Does classic have that leveling gear people used to unlock for their alts in old retail?
The main issue I have with parse is you can do the most dps, or be the top heals, avoid all the mechanics, and still be grey lmao. Parses are a joke, and the people that invest in using them as a way to "build the perfect team" are an even bigger joke.
7 chars, 7 exalted reps before some in my guild even got 1 char maxed
"wrath class design with classic world design"
They need to scale the heroic dungeons up.
why was that gnome leveling up so wholesome? :o
Min/Max is more complicated topic then just pick what you like, it is like addiction , nature of humans, there are people who enjoy min max , but they are far less then how many people follow this trend, making them burn out and not enjoy gameplay in process.
like 99.9% of playerbase never make it past Magmadar in vanilla
I min max so hard now I don't even play anymore. I go on a trade site before I even role the character I'm about to. Trade for the absolute best gear in the game for the build I'm about to make then have someone make a account and rush the character I want to have leveled then once they are done I use the shared stash and just put the gear on it and now all I do is log on and look ad my bad azz godliest min maxed character on the server 😉
if you're chill and help someone who is new or learning, they'll remember it and will grow as a player. Don't be a hater.
that last bit though
the furthest I got in original WoW is 4 bosses into MC. We were the #3 guild on our server (our server never cleared NAXX before BC). I cleared MC in a PUG group on classic WoW.... was very disappointing... learning raids is kind of ruined when everyone knows the raids. One of the few great moments in original is our first full clear of ZG... was only 4 or 5 guilds doing that on our server.... classic WoW ZG was a bug instance not a raid, and there was no accomplishments to anything.... mainly because of 20 years of refinement of original raids on private servers. The fun of the old school was the mystery... walk into a raid and it's completely new.. Is why I like side progression with slight vertical... maybe it's better when only 0.1% of people complete a raid. Because for 0.1% of people thet're gods. For 99.9% of people, they have something to aspire to. Easy modes (IDK what WoW devolved to but SWTOR devolved to solo-raids for story mode and they're basically star wars WoW).... I think the original WoW team was wrong... they felt bad only 0.1% of people got to see their final raid. That was what made it epic and special. For everyone, including the people that didn't get there.... I will never know NAXX.... BC stole that from me. And so MMOs age and die...
"You just play the continent that gets added into the game" is EXACTLY what I've been saying for years. They have plenty of worldspace that they can evolve and grow rather than making a new area every expansion.
People really need to understand the difference between tedium and time investment.
Vanilla and even TBC to many extents, is just tedium to get into content. Not because it makes sense, but because fuck you, spend hours doing something that should have been accessible to begin with.
I remember when Classic was announced I laughed at all the elitist comments: "Haha, I can't wait for retail babies trying the real challenge. They will quit within a week."
I remember when city raids were a thing. Grouping up with people invested enough to kill all the leaders in the different cities. I miss those days.
14:30 I litteraly am leveling a Nelf warrior on Thekal for this reason, SWIFTY!!!!
That's not a solution for dungeon finder dungeons, raids and bgs.
I pugged into a guild raid once. I was not a min/maxer, but I could pump heals. They begged me to join their guild because they couldnt find healers. Their raid times fit so I joined, and after a month they were on my ass for not grinding out my legendary to its max level or doing max keys for the chest. This was because I hated Torghast and wasnt a big fan of M+, I just wanted to raid and do some pvp. Though with the lowest level legendary I still outhealed everyone and made mistakes extremely rarely so replacing me was not a popular opinion. Point of the story, know your class and dont die, with decent gear you will be just fine.
Ps nobody told anybody to minmax the game
Wrong. One asshat can choose to do it of his own Accord, and only allow other people to join him if they do it too. That's how metas form. Turns into asking for minmax, or you don't play.
If they did Classic+ i'd come back
This is the same guy that laughs at people for playing human priests. Back in vanilla he probably would have laughed at dwarf priests because that was the prevailing "meta" at the time.
3:52 well , in that moment u descripted ursellf :)
Min maxers spoil games almost every time. Not that I don't do it. But min maxing is never fun. Winning is. It's just a shortcut to success.
Asmon isn't a minmaxer. His dps is ass, his achievement progression isn't speed based, he doesn't speedrun anything. Why does he think he minmaxes anything.
Not a participation reward. Time would be a dedication reward. Some players put their lives into these games and that should be worth something. Twitch skills are for the young and competitive gamers and should not be what defines a good player. Unless there is a tournament. You can be a really good player and be toxic to the game an community.
Havent played classic wow at all I might just make an account and level up to 80 over the comming months
If you're having fun, you're playing it wrong
Idk I never cared about all that 'hardcore" stuff and the way it is said in the vid... I just think alot of the grind and mechanics are just a waste of time, especially nowadays... theres so many better games to play that don't waste your time... we have already experienced this, a brand new experience will always be more fun no matter wich game it is, you need to renew the experience like asmon said many times.
7:08 WoW, the GAME is casual-friendly. The community is toxic to it.
Thumbnail screaming lost ark to me.
As a guy who played maybe 10 hours of wow tops back in the day why are mages considered the best at farming gold?
they do aoe dmg
I gave up on WoW… literally wanted nothing more than to play classic wrath or cata. Yet I was perma banned bc I’d been suspended 3 times in the previous year. Permabanned bc I called a cheater a “pussy ass safespotting cheater” and stated in trade that I play with anyone in arena. I said i play with “bad gear/bad skill/ bad comp” players
17:20
the biggest problem with the min max "mentality" is that thats all that it is to most players a mentality and nothing more, the same people enforcing meta and perfect gear arent even in the best gear themselves and are playing just as poorly as the rest of the playerbase, its asmongold and those players that make the community look bad while not even being at the standard that they set for everyone else around them, when was the last time asmongold achieved anything of value in this game anyway? and yet he and the people who rushed to 80 has that same mentality of "be good or kick" what a joke
@16:33
Love the idea I’ve a vanilla classic but with wrath updates . Played all through vanilla classic and loved it . Played prettt much every day for 2 years then just got a little burnt out . Tried tbc through ssc then just stopped . I just don’t care for all the addons that you need and mounts , rep, etc should be account wide 100 percent . And no charge for respec like admin said . If they did this I would totally come back. Those changes would be awesome for classic
I never had a chance to play WoW back then, but I can do it now. Anyone want to be friends/explore the game together?
It's bullshit when you say OG vanilla was easy tho because when classic dropped everyone knew all about appropriate stats and had guides etc which is a huge advantage. Back in the day many players grinded class dung set and that was the entry requirement for MC guilds now we know that those sets are crap and individual items are better etc so playing with that huge advantage obviously it's easier obviously you could have got the same stuff back in the day but you just didn't know that was better then. To join my first raiding guild I had to have 8/8 dung set and that guild ended up progressing into majority of naxx on farm. Plus classic wasn't same as vanilla there was some improvements eg stealth
i remember back in the days vanilla -> cata. buying the montly wow magazine at my local bluckbuster. on how best to level and level up proffesion. talking about best class / gear for each spec
As a new player to the game who really struggled to get into it and keep entertained through the leveling process ( it's an insane grind that I find to be tedious, unfulfilling and very unnecessary) I have also wanted to have an endgame WoW character with awesome gear since I knew about it many years ago, the "prestige" of it drew me in, and the knowlege that an endgame player knows the intricacies of their class and the complexities of various encounters that are not easy to complete. So im grinding through the levels now because I always quit before I even hit level 50. One reason I level slowly is because I play solo, due to the fact that I know so many of the groups that run dungeons know exactly how to do these encounters and know how to get the bosses done quickly. I also know that many wow players who run dungeons are elitist fucks who don't tolerate someone learning either their class or the encounter, so it makes a game that I struggle to enjoy hard to play, and also hard to want to break into the more social aspects knowing that those longtime players are out there. If I do meet a player who is being a prik because I had to learn or made a mistake then its very plausible ill get banned. Because I'm not a gracious person and when you get up in arms about zeroes and ones, fake shit on a 2d screen then I'll sooner be a really mean person then let it roll on because of the endgame character desire. So I play solo. Only really grouping up with some longtime friends who have all played this game for years so they can fill me in on important things.
"These players never got gladiator..blahblah.. pathetic". Yup... triggered. It's called player choice. Dont assume someones skill is sh*t because they don't engage in PvP. I did competitive FPS'ing for years (leagues) way before WoW was even released... and it was the friggin opposite why I never took part in it, it wasn't fair or balanced vs classes, numbers vs numbers.. and almost RNG.. which was weak sauce for me and not skill based enough _THATS_ why I didn't do PvP. And as for us being "carried" in raids.. Actually it was pretty much the opposite for me. Thats how raids were (generally)... about 20% of players are actually skilled in a raid, the rest are usually carried.
So true, entire wow is a casual game.....