This is a foundational ignition system operation and testing class that happens to be on an old EECIV Ford. If you're new to this trade and want to truly learn this stuff, you have to look past the age of the case study being used for this class!
Good to see you still at it, brother! Speaking of EEC-IV systems, on Wed.morning my ‘86 Grand Marquis we’ve owned over 20.5 years now just turned over the odometer for the 3rd time - 300,000 miles!!! 👍😎👍It’s still on its factory, OE, electric in-tank fuel pump, too! A glaring example of how parts quality today is in the toilet. 😂 I can’t recall if I told you, but I’ve thrown in the towel on auto repair. I was doing too many different things - brakes, shocks (and all the RUST with that), diagnostics, & small engines. If I had stuck with ONE aspect I probably wouldn’t have burnt out so soon. I ended up back working for someone else, doing maintenance for a big company in the city. Got much needed benefits, but not much time for myself & the wife anymore. We’ll see how this new chapter goes. So far, so good. Good to see you, brother!! May God continue to bless you & your family.
Naturally when a car has another problem in a month the customer is upset. They want to connect the new failure to the previous repair in some way and blame the mechanic. They don't think they should have to pay for another repair so soon. What people often fail to realize is that there are so many things that can go wrong with a car that fixing one problem will somehow assure them a fairly long time before the next problem. I could happen that it takes a long time or the next failure could come the next day. I'm always reminded of the case where I replaced a clutch in a car and the customer called me back in a day or two and told me the car radio stopped working. I explained that one thing had nothing to do with the other and with that car the power for the radio didn't run anywhere near the transmission. They stated that they understood there was no relationship between the two physically but never the less they kept insisting that the radio worked before and now it doesn't and I must have done something.
Great job Dan once a teacher always a teacher, years ago you could make a by pass TFM had it in my tool box with a heatsink built on it to drive a car to my shop or in the bay , havent talked to you in a while nice class prep well done
Years ago when I owned my 88 ford Bronko II I redesigned my heat sink for the ICM from the distributor to the fire wall so it would be easier to change out if need be but i found out if the engine shut down all I needed to due is wait one hour and it would start right up I also cut a access hole to pull the fuel pump easier also wished i didn't sell it because I also gave him three volumes of the original factory service manual
I know you covered this in an F150 no start video but the TFI module does not need to be grounded to work. That is a heat sink pad and requires thermal paste when attached to a heat sink (preferred) or distributor body (not recommended).
You can take my classes online from my website here www.scannerdanner.com/join-scannerdanner-premium.html Thank you! In some of them, I'm teaching page for page from my book.
2 seperate/diff trucks with same engine, fuel pump ran constant, koeo, & filled cylinders with fuel, once up to the throttle body! Dicy mess cleaning that up in 100 degree shop...Took pcm apart & found burned up board, same spot both vehicles...
Many many years ago my first car was a 1988 F150 with the 4.9 I6 engine. One night while coming home it just stalled out on me. Not understanding much at the time about cars someone told me that if it's a Ford product just haul off and punch it, that it will start again. So following that advice I hauled off and punched it square in the windshield. 5 minutes later the truck restarted. However it cost me $350 for a new window. So I take it in the local Dodge dealer in town and they diagnose it - turns out the ignition control module on the side of the distributor were notorious for getting moisture on the backing plate and going defective. Never bought a Ford again after that
Great video Paul as always these systems brings back found memories of these older systems. I did started out on point type systems way back in the day and then everything thing moved to Electronic ignition. Still working on cars today some what. With lots of training and watching your videos I of come along way. Keep up the great work Paul and Caleb. God Bless.
I repeating a reply I already sent to you As you told me to do one way to check the operation of a PCM this is a 94 f-150 5.0l You said check the 5v reference on the TPS and MAP I check it on the MAF mass air flow sensor this is what i got terminal A 11.84v B .005v C .006v D .022v With no 5v reference voltage is the PCM bad or do I need to ck more sensors
There was another problem I forgot to tell you the ignition switch when you turned it to start it did nothing I replaced the ignition switch and neutral safety switch on the transmission drivers side and still not nothing Now I'm thinking power relay but I'm not sure where it is I think I need a wiring diagram of 1994 F-150 5.0l dual tank truck I remember when I was doing the led test light connected to pin number 5 ground to coil alligator clip to positive and the pointer with a wire jumper with allegator clips connected to ICM connector on the #5 back probe in it at the time since the ignition switch was not working I used a remote starter switch to turn it over it tried to start every time I hit the button switch my gueston is does it need a power relay and knowing it tried to start would that bad gas cause it not to start and why did it try to start with that led test light I'm still shut down on it I will check for power and ground on the ICM when I get back to it maybe power and grond on the power relay also when I find it.Thank You very much for all your help in the past Paul
Mr scanner i have same system on ford in Australia. The coil wire that comes outa tfi module goes to coil does it carry 12 volts or is it constant negative. Or does it just collapse 12 volts that already there.peace
Coil - ? Yes the TFI module directly controls it with a switched ground. Key on engine off testing will show battery voltage on that wire as there is no ground yet.
@@ScannerDanner so tfi module has spout pip run start coil ground.coil should have 12 volts and when shutter wheel window or leading edge on vane enters hall effect senor then that coil wire should earth and collapse coil is that correct. Peace
@@Trev-fl1oe I'm not sure if it's leading edge or trailing edge of the PIP the triggers the coil. I think trailing edge turns it off and is where spark occurs. But that's only with the SPOUT unplugged. When the SPOUT is involved, the PCM is now controlling the igniter
I feel this problem also could've been a broken control wire between the coil and the TFI module. With key on, you checked for 12v at the coil control wire at the coil (proving continuity through the coil,) but never checked for that same 12v all the way at the TFI module --you put the amp clamp around the wire at the module, and saw 0 amps. Proving that 12v is present at the module, and then making sure the module had its power and ground would've totally condemned the TFI module as being bad. Of course you did ultimately prove it by swapping it with a spare part, but not everyone will have that spare part on their desk. Not trying to nitpick but just wanted to show another variable.
In 1976 when I went to SanJacinto College I took automotive engines 1&2 automotive electrical and carburetor 1&2 5 semesters of paint and body 5 semesters of welding plate to pipe welding made honor role in welding and took TIG welding later Garth Abel was my teacher and we were taught to diagnose a car in five minutes using the SUNScope
You do it piece by piece... Does a new plumber or HVAC tech start out with all the knowledge to know exactly what parts to bring to a service call? No. It takes time. If it was so easy to be a know it all, good trade techs would not be in high demand.
On the second wire up on the spout connector and dual led test light pointer is hooked up to it with a wire probe and the alligator clip is hooked up to positive on the battery and a green light shows it is getting ground to it and you turn on the ignition switch and the green light goes out does this mean the pcm is bad?Thank you very much for your fast reply.
To scanner danner Paul Would you please answer the question about the second wire up on the spout connector on the ignition control module I connected a low voltage dual polarity LED test light hooked the alligator clip to positive 12v source put pointer in the tan/yellow pin 5 coil that is has a probe pin in it on a EEC-IV system on 94 f-150 5,0l engine when led test light green light comes on and then you turn the ignition key on the light goes off Does this indicate the PCM is defective? Thank You Paul and please help.
@@tessiehuskey689I have other EEC IV no spark videos. Watch some more of them. I have no idea what test you're doing with that LED light. Use an incandescent light and follow the procedures I'm showing and then I can help more. Power and ground must be verified on the ignition module. The bypass test doesn't work right? What is the PIP wire voltage KOEO and how did you do the test? The LED light won't work for that
Ok I didn’t verify the icm had power and ground my mistake I got this test from watching this video 1994 Ford f-150 4.9L 300cid 16 ignition troubleshooting The last test he did was seeing if we are getting a ground to the ignition module to give the ground to the coil I was doing this test from the coil ground out pin 5 This is before I started watching your videos watch your videos every day part 1,2,&3 Ford EEC-IV spark diagnostic class I’m learning a lot from your videos but sometimes I don’t fully understand it.I have been working for two days to get that pcm out of this truck it wouldn’t come out of the engine bay firewall so I’m trying to remove the bracket under the dash then finding out the pcm was corroded to the metal bracket now last night before we quit for the day we covered the wire connectors with duck tape and sprayed it down with deep creap marine penetrating oil to free the corroded bracket to free it up to remove it thru the engine bay side This is assuming the pcm was in fact bad if not it needed to be removed and cleaned up to inspect the electrolytic capacitors to solder in new ones or replace the unit.I did check for spark using the ten dollar test light on the coil it was good Checked coil positive good coil negative the light stayed on check the flashing led on the pip wire it was good The only thing I didn’t do was put a vom meter on the pip wire to check voltage on 0v or 10 v before I checked coil ground out from watching your video I assume the pip signal should be 10v before I turn the ignition switch on to verify the light went out according to Mr.C in the original video I watched.If you watch that video you will understand why I came up with the idea the PCM was bad.I’m still watching your videos every day You are the Einstein of Diagnostic teachings.
Those TFI modules are common issues, they are the first thing I check, followed by ECU visual, last one I did tfi checked fine checked the relays than went straight for the ecu and the corrosion on the ecu the case just fell apart.
This is a foundational ignition system operation and testing class that happens to be on an old EECIV Ford. If you're new to this trade and want to truly learn this stuff, you have to look past the age of the case study being used for this class!
The nostalgia is kicking in big time!!!
Good to see you still at it, brother! Speaking of EEC-IV systems, on Wed.morning my ‘86 Grand Marquis we’ve owned over 20.5 years now just turned over the odometer for the 3rd time - 300,000 miles!!! 👍😎👍It’s still on its factory, OE, electric in-tank fuel pump, too! A glaring example of how parts quality today is in the toilet. 😂
I can’t recall if I told you, but I’ve thrown in the towel on auto repair. I was doing too many different things - brakes, shocks (and all the RUST with that), diagnostics, & small engines. If I had stuck with ONE aspect I probably wouldn’t have burnt out so soon. I ended up back working for someone else, doing maintenance for a big company in the city. Got much needed benefits, but not much time for myself & the wife anymore. We’ll see how this new chapter goes. So far, so good. Good to see you, brother!! May God continue to bless you & your family.
If it's more time you get to spend with your wife, it was the right decision!
Excessive heat will cook the TFI module and so will not using the proper dielectric grease on the module. Great content Thank You.🇺🇸🇵🇷🦊👍
Naturally when a car has another problem in a month the customer is upset. They want to connect the new failure to the previous repair in some way and blame the mechanic. They don't think they should have to pay for another repair so soon. What people often fail to realize is that there are so many things that can go wrong with a car that fixing one problem will somehow assure them a fairly long time before the next problem. I could happen that it takes a long time or the next failure could come the next day.
I'm always reminded of the case where I replaced a clutch in a car and the customer called me back in a day or two and told me the car radio stopped working. I explained that one thing had nothing to do with the other and with that car the power for the radio didn't run anywhere near the transmission. They stated that they understood there was no relationship between the two physically but never the less they kept insisting that the radio worked before and now it doesn't and I must have done something.
Great job Dan once a teacher always a teacher, years ago you could make a by pass TFM had it in my tool box with a heatsink built on it to drive a car to my shop or in the bay , havent talked to you in a while nice class prep well done
Years ago when I owned my 88 ford Bronko II I redesigned my heat sink for the ICM from the distributor to the fire wall so it would be easier to change out if need be but i found out if the engine shut down all I needed to due is wait one hour and it would start right up I also cut a access hole to pull the fuel pump easier also wished i didn't sell it because I also gave him three volumes of the original factory service manual
I love this two-part series! Great job, Paul and Caleb! I can’t wait to see the next video!
I know you covered this in an F150 no start video but the TFI module does not need to be grounded to work. That is a heat sink pad and requires thermal paste when attached to a heat sink (preferred) or distributor body (not recommended).
I wish I can go to your school I'm from Canada but I bought your book and I'm waiting for it, I always enjoy your videos and learned a lot, thank you.
You can take my classes online from my website here
www.scannerdanner.com/join-scannerdanner-premium.html
Thank you! In some of them, I'm teaching page for page from my book.
2 seperate/diff trucks with same engine, fuel pump ran constant, koeo, & filled cylinders with fuel, once up to the throttle body! Dicy mess cleaning that up in 100 degree shop...Took pcm apart & found burned up board, same spot both vehicles...
Most awaited😍
Thanks for sharing SD😍
Stay Blessed🙏🏻
Many many years ago my first car was a 1988 F150 with the 4.9 I6 engine. One night while coming home it just stalled out on me. Not understanding much at the time about cars someone told me that if it's a Ford product just haul off and punch it, that it will start again. So following that advice I hauled off and punched it square in the windshield. 5 minutes later the truck restarted. However it cost me $350 for a new window. So I take it in the local Dodge dealer in town and they diagnose it - turns out the ignition control module on the side of the distributor were notorious for getting moisture on the backing plate and going defective. Never bought a Ford again after that
They all had these issues in the early years
Great video Paul as always these systems brings back found memories of these older systems. I did started out on point type systems way back in the day and then everything thing moved to Electronic ignition. Still working on cars today some what. With lots of training and watching your videos I of come along way. Keep up the great work Paul and Caleb. God Bless.
Thank you Tracy!
Always!@@ScannerDanner
Thank you Paul .
Thanks a lot Paul.
nice, from Peru
Perfect concepts. 👌
I repeating a reply I already sent to you As you told me to do one way to check the operation of a PCM this is a 94 f-150 5.0l You said check the 5v reference on the TPS and MAP I check it on the MAF mass air flow sensor this is what i got terminal A 11.84v B .005v C .006v D .022v With no 5v reference voltage is the PCM bad or do I need to ck more sensors
So cool from Solomon islands
There was another problem I forgot to tell you the ignition switch when you turned it to start it did nothing I replaced the ignition switch and neutral safety switch on the transmission drivers side and still not nothing Now I'm thinking power relay but I'm not sure where it is I think I need a wiring diagram of 1994 F-150 5.0l dual tank truck I remember when I was doing the led test light connected to pin number 5 ground to coil alligator clip to positive and the pointer with a wire jumper with allegator clips connected to ICM connector on the #5 back probe in it at the time since the ignition switch was not working I used a remote starter switch to turn it over it tried to start every time I hit the button switch my gueston is does it need a power relay and knowing it tried to start would that bad gas cause it not to start and why did it try to start with that led test light I'm still shut down on it I will check for power and ground on the ICM when I get back to it maybe power and grond on the power relay also when I find it.Thank You very much for all your help in the past Paul
Mr scanner i have same system on ford in Australia. The coil wire that comes outa tfi module goes to coil does it carry 12 volts or is it constant negative. Or does it just collapse 12 volts that already there.peace
Coil - ? Yes the TFI module directly controls it with a switched ground. Key on engine off testing will show battery voltage on that wire as there is no ground yet.
@@ScannerDanner so tfi module has spout pip run start coil ground.coil should have 12 volts and when shutter wheel window or leading edge on vane enters hall effect senor then that coil wire should earth and collapse coil is that correct. Peace
@@Trev-fl1oe I'm not sure if it's leading edge or trailing edge of the PIP the triggers the coil. I think trailing edge turns it off and is where spark occurs. But that's only with the SPOUT unplugged. When the SPOUT is involved, the PCM is now controlling the igniter
@@ScannerDanner i got to excited mr danner forgot to say thankyou.peace
How do you sign up for diagnostic classes online
www.scannerdanner.com/join-scannerdanner-premium.html
Thank you! If you have any problems signing up, email me at support@scannerdanner.com
I feel this problem also could've been a broken control wire between the coil and the TFI module. With key on, you checked for 12v at the coil control wire at the coil (proving continuity through the coil,) but never checked for that same 12v all the way at the TFI module --you put the amp clamp around the wire at the module, and saw 0 amps. Proving that 12v is present at the module, and then making sure the module had its power and ground would've totally condemned the TFI module as being bad. Of course you did ultimately prove it by swapping it with a spare part, but not everyone will have that spare part on their desk. Not trying to nitpick but just wanted to show another variable.
I'm pretty sure we address this coming up in part 3! Thank you!
In 1976 when I went to SanJacinto College I took automotive engines 1&2 automotive electrical and carburetor 1&2 5 semesters of paint and body 5 semesters of welding plate to pipe welding made honor role in welding and took TIG welding later Garth Abel was my teacher and we were taught to diagnose a car in five minutes using the SUNScope
Definitely has a background in electronics 💰. How can you possibly learn electrical chassis, test equipment & components in only a couple of months? 😮
You do it piece by piece... Does a new plumber or HVAC tech start out with all the knowledge to know exactly what parts to bring to a service call?
No. It takes time. If it was so easy to be a know it all, good trade techs would not be in high demand.
@@volvo09why is there a shortage of trained auto mechanics but no shortage of auto mechanic students? 🤔
You learn your fundamentals and you start applying them in the field. You are constantly learning every single time you touch a car
If the bypass test doesn’t create spark is the pcm defective
No
On the second wire up on the spout connector and dual led test light pointer is hooked up to it with a wire probe and the alligator clip is hooked up to positive on the battery and a green light shows it is getting ground to it and you turn on the ignition switch and the green light goes out does this mean the pcm is bad?Thank you very much for your fast reply.
To scanner danner Paul Would you please answer the question about the second wire up on the spout connector on the ignition control module I connected a low voltage dual polarity LED test light hooked the alligator clip to positive 12v source put pointer in the tan/yellow pin 5 coil that is has a probe pin in it on a EEC-IV system on 94 f-150 5,0l engine when led test light green light comes on and then you turn the ignition key on the light goes off Does this indicate the PCM is defective? Thank You Paul and please help.
@@tessiehuskey689I have other EEC IV no spark videos. Watch some more of them. I have no idea what test you're doing with that LED light. Use an incandescent light and follow the procedures I'm showing and then I can help more. Power and ground must be verified on the ignition module. The bypass test doesn't work right? What is the PIP wire voltage KOEO and how did you do the test? The LED light won't work for that
Ok I didn’t verify the icm had power and ground my mistake I got this test from watching this video 1994 Ford f-150 4.9L 300cid 16 ignition troubleshooting The last test he did was seeing if we are getting a ground to the ignition module to give the ground to the coil I was doing this test from the coil ground out pin 5 This is before I started watching your videos watch your videos every day part 1,2,&3 Ford EEC-IV spark diagnostic class I’m learning a lot from your videos but sometimes I don’t fully understand it.I have been working for two days to get that pcm out of this truck it wouldn’t come out of the engine bay firewall so I’m trying to remove the bracket under the dash then finding out the pcm was corroded to the metal bracket now last night before we quit for the day we covered the wire connectors with duck tape and sprayed it down with deep creap marine penetrating oil to free the corroded bracket to free it up to remove it thru the engine bay side This is assuming the pcm was in fact bad if not it needed to be removed and cleaned up to inspect the electrolytic capacitors to solder in new ones or replace the unit.I did check for spark using the ten dollar test light on the coil it was good Checked coil positive good coil negative the light stayed on check the flashing led on the pip wire it was good The only thing I didn’t do was put a vom meter on the pip wire to check voltage on 0v or 10 v before I checked coil ground out from watching your video I assume the pip signal should be 10v before I turn the ignition switch on to verify the light went out according to Mr.C in the original video I watched.If you watch that video you will understand why I came up with the idea the PCM was bad.I’m still watching your videos every day You are the Einstein of Diagnostic teachings.
Those TFI modules are common issues, they are the first thing I check, followed by ECU visual, last one I did tfi checked fine checked the relays than went straight for the ecu and the corrosion on the ecu the case just fell apart.
This was a great opportunity to teach procedures to a class of newbies. I wasn't worry about what the common problems are. 😉
I do the same thing in a smaller scale. Some days you will not spend only '5 mins. Let's be real.
I was being real
Диагностика автомобиля невозможна без знания УСТРОЙСТВА АВТОМОБИЛЯ!