Am I picking going up against any navy you need carriers, mainly because of the simple fact that if an enemy brings in the carriers sometimes you're Fighters or bombers on an island will not engage leaving the entire fleet to pretty much died at the hands of an eight carrier task force the enemy has
The fleet's carriers will lose sortie efficiency by your air superiority in the sea zone, even if the fighters (or strategic bombers) producing superiority aren't actually participating in the combat.
i'd say for carriers are useful even close to your own ports with air superiority, mostly because carrier-based naval bombers can sortie away many times than land-based bombers. if something, if your ships are on range of air cover, bring more naval bombers. if your ships are not in range of air cover, better run away wherever you have it.
This is something that I couldn't work out. I had a CRAP TONNE of air cover over the Black Sea (as the USSR)... yet my Black Sea Fleet was constantly being attached and sunk/damaged by Axis naval bombers. I addressed this at a group and someone said that there was something broken in the game where only naval air (i.e. carriers) on CAP would defend ships. Now, I don't know that this is right, but my (very large... like I had the 2nd biggest airforce after the UK) airforce couldn't knock out a few naval bombers... pissed me off.
My major fleet composition is usually. 3 Carriers 2 Battleships 3 Battlecruisers 8 heavy cruisers 8 light cruisers 24 destroyers Carrier air wings. 33% fighters 33% CAS 33% naval bombers This composition with an aircraft carrier doctrine gives me a victory 95% of the time. The killers are the Carriers the other ships are there to take damage and shoot down aircraft, and the battleships and heavy cruisers along with carrier CAS make amphibious landings easier. With lots of dockyards these fleets can be made in a moderate amount of time. These are the fleets I use to invade the U.S as Germany. Note I only played against the AI.
Having higher armor than the enemies piercing halves his damage, thus bigger ships counter smaller, while the natural counter, torpedoes(Subs and DD) are slower, thus are pure superheavy fleet will destroy everything apart from superheavies. This is of course with out air taken into account, that is why these fleets need carriers to provide air superiority to stop torpedo bombers, building dds or any cruiser is a pure waste of production to gain constant superiority over the ocean, if u need only one invasion, spam subs, to gain superiority for a moment through the sheer number
managed to dominate the Atlantic as the German Empire but bit out my teeth trying to invade the US. The armies either got intercepted on their way, pinned down in North America or starved out by my own Allies because for some reason Italy thought it would be a nice Idea to send an additional 30 Divisions to northern Canada to guard ports that could not be invaded as I held total Naval Superiority in that Region.
That's why you need to only send a division of 24 infantry, no tank or anything that need high supply. First time i invaded canada, it take me forever because of your issue. Since then, i use only 24 marines with 2 line of troops and supports and even with 48 allies with me, i never run out of supply.
That's exactly what I did. I created some of these ultra-light Divisions to fight in Africa and after Rommel failed with his tanks I brought those in and switched von Lettow-Vorbeck (who's a beast south of the Sahara btw) for that Winter Guy (don't know his name)... That was when the Americans simply pinned me down.
did you conquer if you could before invading the Greenland ? The thing is, you need air superiority prior to move forward. But i wouldn't lie by saying it's far easier to conquer north america via what's today called Nova Scotia.
Huh, good tutorial! I finally understand navy! *puts all ships in a single task force to have them sit in a port until 44, when i have to invade a random island
Small CV task force 6:34 Medium CV task force 7:46 4 CV 10-16 CL 4-6 BB 1-4 BC 6 CA 30-45 DD Big CV task force 10:10 Fire support 8:02 Surface action group 13:16 Airplane killer 1:40
I am sorry to say but this is again wrong. You suggest not to blob a fleet because your weaker fleet will force the stronger in retreat (not sure how that works). But lets assume that is magically working then u suggest next to send a fleet to his harbor and harbor strike the damaged fleet. But how can your few and weaker CAGs fight off the cheaper and stronger fighter he has in his homeland? Beside this, you very often say do this do that. But I am missing very often the why.
Well the way this game is design 99% of the naval battle comes down to who has more better ships, and more often than not the older ships that you start with are destroyed in the battle anyway and hardly do anything more than act as meat Shields. By losing most of your Fleet but damaging most of his if he has a mixed Fleet the whole Fleet will go back to Port including his important ships to try to repair, if you're in multiplayer you can then like in the video again Port attacks which damage and often sink his ships and if you have land torpedo bombers and range do even more damage while using the fighters on the carriers for air superiority lowering the interception chance of the torpedo bombers and allowing them to do more damage to his main ships. Wall in Port the aircraft carriers can't even use their own fighters to protect themselves, if you're in multiplayer sometimes Japanese players won't even put are up over their Homeland and instead spam it all over in China.
In multiplayer out of 20 games that will probably happen one or two of the times at most, of all the time I've played multiplayer and I mean thousands of hours worth I have only seen that one time that I can think of, and even when he did that his Carrier split off with a super battleship and I did the same thing and destroyed them even easier because they were defenseless in the port
4 Carriers 2 Super Heavy Battleships 4 Battleships 8 Battle Cruisers 8 Heavy Cruisers 16 Light Cruisers 32 Destroyers 16 Submarines My favorite Fleet Composition, It takes up an entire level 10 port but it hasn't let me down yet.
Hi I’ve been binging your Hoi videos for the last few hours and imho you are the BEST strat/info RUclipsr the things like actually putting up the numbers on screen when it comes to the different fleet comps and not just saying them make a huge difference in quality. Thank you very much for the effort :)
Dont forget the beautiful strat of abusing the crap outta Japan's Tora Tora Tora bonus giving some bonuses to sorties in general but most importantly a -50% carrier overcrowding debuff that with the mass strikes doctrine research you can now stack 8+ carriers in 1 fleet and delete the entire Pacific fleet of the US in milliseconds if you find any of their fleets
This is an amazing video but could you do a review of remans video where he shows and tests why you should only produce battleships and carriers. Love the content it’s really informative keep it up man
first thanks for the comment, i saw that video and thats why i made this video. the way he tested is not practical in a real game, when you have different ships fighting it depends on the whole fleet and yes carriers and battleships are op but when you have screens, capital ships and cv's then those kind of videos dont matter anymore. its like making a 40 width division with all at against a 40 width super heavy tank division. the at is better but because it has no org it would be defeated by the tanks.
I think aircraft carriers no close air support, and bigger ships like heavy cruisers and BB's should be used, some destroyers to soak up some damage, while your carriers with fighters and naval bombers can kill their big ships and conquer the air, your destroyers MAY take some of the offensive damage and their cheap, then your BB can sort of get in the way of your carriers, and inflict a lot of damage to the enemy.
I imagine what you have as the "light" carrier task force is something you could try to build if you are playing a minor and want to have a reasonably strong navy to defend your coast? Those larger task forces seem impossible with the limited industry smaller countries would have.
Thanks, used the Large Carrier Task Force in single player against the British Navy, the U.S navy and the Canadian navy and only lost a few destroyers!
It doesn't just work for United States though, you can make the exact same composition with ease as Italy, Japan, france and uk and if you start working hard on your Navy as Germany and split it half you have the same effect as long as they're Advanced ships.
Not really. He gives a fairly decent explanation as to what each sector does and why. So, as the USSR, if you needed 'air protection' groups you'd build the air killer. If as Australia you needed Sub killers you'd build a sub killer fleet. Pretty simple. He's probably used the USA because they have everything. Romania may not need everything, but can pick and choose.
It's easy when you play with USA, to produce so many of fleet.When I played as Germany, i produced 6 battleships,2 AC,10 Heavy cruisers, 20 light cuisers,2 super heavy battleships,50 destroyers and 60 submarines, until 1940.
Wtf that Wolf Pack tactic at the end has me rethinking the Kreigsmarine. I mean its basically a sacrificial force for Operation Sea Lion, but if I just need the few bs surface ships to lure in the Royal Navy and wipe the floor with them via subs it would be worth it. Hmmmm now I gotta test this shit.
I played as italy recently and I used base strike with a large number of fighters and CAS. Basically make no carriers and battleships, suply about 2k fighters and 2k CAS (on naval bombing) and you'll grind the allied fleet so quickly that you can take North America and England Before they can rebuild
Those little sub stacks can ruin the AI in particular (inattentive players too, but always works vs AI). There are lots of sea zones along convoy routes the AI just doesn't cover so you can single handedly ruin its war effort with pretty trashy fleets and some military access.
its kind of confusing for people that are trying to learn the game because A) its not explained in the game B) the game is being patched as if it were an early access mmo when a single player strategy game should not be changing like that except in expansion packs.
Unfortunately, this is completely wrong. The sea combat meta is completely broken and your main combat fleets should NEVER include anything but battleships/battle cruisers and aircraft carriers. Period. The only other ships you need are a handful of destroyers and light cruisers to control sea zones that your main fleets have cleared. Submarines will never attack your BB/CV fleets. If you doubt this, test it. Send a fleet of subs to attack a fleet of nothing but BB/BCs and see what happens. You do need CVs for air defense and port strikes, but nothing else. No cruisers, no light cruisers, no destroyers and no subs. Small groups of DDs and CLs are needed strictly for controlling sea zones.
Here's the problem, if you don't have destroyers and you're in multiplayer a lot of the times recently people have been making fleets to counter that whole idea of only building Capital ships, for example I did this multiplayer the other day where I put a lot of Destroyers in one Fleet and then put Subs at it, I mean the fleet all together was around a hundred twenty, I lost all the Destroyers yes but because the Destroyers Drew in the ships and the subs finished them off I killed over 70 Capital ships in one fight, and I was Japan he was USA. That is why you need to have a fleet mixed, if you don't have an aircraft carrier you're at a disadvantage to someone who does have one, if you don't have a battleship you're at a disadvantage and you're going to lose more in the long run, even though there is a metal that says just stack good ships and you'll be fine think about the old meta. It used to say that if you made enough interwar fighters from the beginning of the game you can outmatch the enemy in the air superiority, that was a common meta when the game first came out and after enough research and enough arguments people started realizing that that was completely stupid, someday people will understand the importance of having a real Fleet compared to the idea of having exclusively Capital ships
Dustin, respectfully, the mechanics of naval combat don't change between single and multi-player, and it is the mechanics of naval combat resolution that cause the problem. I would like nothing better than the next DLC "Man the Guns" to fix naval combat so that balanced fleets are a necessity as they were in real life, but right now, fleets of nothing but BB/BCs and CVs is all you need for defeating enemies. I've tested this MANY times. As the Germans, I have crushed the entire British and French navies with about a dozen BCs and 2 early CVs. Subs never even engage, destroyers never get within range to launch torpedo strikes (the combat system only allows them to use torpedoes 25% of the time and guns 75%) and DD, CL, and CA guns have a 90% damage penalty versus BB/BCs because of armor vs piercing. Thus, the only ships which can damage mine are the enemy BB/BCs. This does not change in multi-player. While you spend resources and dockyard capacity on building CAs, CLs, DDs and Subs, I'll be devoting my entire dockyard capacity to building BCs and CVs. As I build more dockyards, I'll devote a few - and I mean a few - to build small groups of CLs and DDs to control rear-area sea zones. Thus, if we have near parity in dockyards, then I will ALWAYS have a lot more BBs/BCs than you and I will always win. Personally, I prefer BCs over BBs simply because you get about 80% of the firepower and armor with significantly fewer resources and a faster build time, and I use my naval XP to upgrade the armor.
Im going to guess you are talking about ramens paradox naval video, that was done before waking the Tiger was released and some things were changed. Even on the developer stream one day Dan Lin explain how that video is obsolete with the new Naval mechanics. For example a couple things that were added we're now there's a much much higher than previous Retreat chance if a enemy has something in their Fleet and you don't so the fleet Admiral would feel outmatched and try to retreat. Just like my air Doctrine video I had destroyers battleships and carriers in one Fleet but as soon as the planes were gone the battleships and destroyers refuse to fight each other because of how small and how evenly matched they both were
The only videos I've seen about naval compositions are yours, and one from a RUclipsr called FeedBackGaming. I dug into the code to find out why I was getting slaughtered in naval battles and because the mechanics of naval battles were/are completely unexplained. I rarely rely on videos for information about games because so often the information is wrong and/or the analysis and conclusions are flawed. Sifting through the code isn't rocket science but it is the source of my information. I looked for the stream you mentioned and I could not find it. I have not gone back to look for code changes, so I cannot dispute that changes were made. What I can dispute is that it had any effect on the game. If you have researched the naval doctrines that buff capital ship organization from either the Fleet-in-Being tree or the Trade Interdiction tree, then your chances of retreating are much less. Since I always research doctrines to buff capital ship organization before the war starts, I've noticed no changes at all. My fleets do not retreat from battle. Only the damaged ships disengage based on my repair settings.
If you want I'm planning on doing the live stream in a couple days, if I play the United States I'll only make those exactly compositions for the Navy and try it in the Pacific
@@dustinl796 I just watched Reman's naval composition video since some people in the comments said that battleships only fleet is the way to go. I am quite confused about how to build capital fleets now. Could please tell why your mixed fleet naval combo is better than batteships only?
What do you do with the old ships (BB,CA, Coastals) that are too slow to be in "modern" battle fleets and too big to be in anything but deep oceans without massive penalty?
Upon some testing, you only need carriers and tons of planes on them, you don't even need submarines or any escort for the carriers, just spam with shitton of cv naval bombers
Well ues and no if you dont have fighters with your carriers and the enemy does you will loose almost every single torp bomber. So if you had 10 carriers with 50 youd loose around 500
I have done test, but instead of doing them in single player I've done them secretly in multiplayer games. I've gone up against fleets of over 200 ships with nothing more that submarines destroyers and light Cruisers and come out on top, and by that I mean I won the battles while keeping all of my Capital ships at bay
@@dustinl796 Maybe you could, I dont know... SHOW US THE TESTS!!!!!!!! If everything is as you say, you could just have filmed these "tests" of yours. And show them in the Video.
I never really filmed them at the time, I am planning I'm doing a video showing each of the groups in this video doing their job but you could easily try it out in single player right now. All you need a lot of Destroyers and light Cruisers to draw the ships in and then the submarines take out the enemy ships, that is if they're spamming Capital ships.
To be honest with you, I was playing the United States in the multiplayer game built 45 dockyards, and save the game kind of late whenever the host had to leave. At least as the United States you start out with almost as many ships as they're in the video, if they're really expensive something else you could do depending on what nation you are is split the compositions and 1/2, or if that doesn't work and it's still too expensive split them in half again
Why would you go for all three types (CA, BC, and BB) instead of JUST battle ships? It seems that, if you can afford the production of battle ships, those are the best of the three? They do more damage and can take more, so..... Would love to hear your thoughts!!
Because those cant fight subs and lack aa, so if you encounter someone with a massive fleet of subs and destroyers (so they attack) then ca, bb, and cvs get wrwcked
Wow, that was a quick reply on an old vid, thanks! To be clear, I don't mean get an only-BS fleet. Just to get no other capitals ships (except for carriers). So you'd end up with, based on your 10:15 overview, something like this: 60 DD 32 CL 10 BS 8 CC
I respond to all my comments, or atleast try to 😁. Back to your thing tho, well cvs are great but the same thing happens and if all the planes are lost nothing stops the subs, so youd loose way more sense the planes are gone too. Thats why i always make fleets in groups from shore bombardment, surface action, aa, patrol and carrier task force so they cover every possibility
Your videos are really helping me with the game, so thanks, but I have one question. I start out with these awful task forces and no balance, so how do I delete those starting task forces without getting rid of the ships and combining the ships to make the task forces you recommended?
One way to use this video is look at the Navy you currently have, and then compare it to the one on the video, for example one Fleet if I remember had eight battleships, 4 aircraft carriers, 20 destroyers, 10 Cruisers, 10 heavy Cruisers, if you only have a quarter of the available ships you can still try to get as close to this composition as possible or add up the total number of ships you have in each category and divide them. As long as it's over 20-30 ships you should be fine
Here is a good question: what is the point of heavy cruisers and why not just build a mix of light cruisers and battleships? I mean, didn't the Dreadnoght render CA ships obsolete as just crappier BBs? And if you gonna build Battleships anyway why bother wasting a reserch slot on CA line....
well you can but they way ships work are resources and job, light cruisers try to attack but cant really damage subs like destroyers, battleships are very expensive and take a while compared to heavy cruisers (which are weaker) but they can pop 3-5 in the time for a battleship
Do you put the Air Killers in groups of three on the same line as your main fleet or do you just put them in with the main fleet. Like I would put a scout group on the same line as my main fleet, not IN the fleet... sorry, crappy explanation.
hit (f2) or click the ship icon in the bottom right, then combine the naval groups by selecting several by shift clicking then once selected combine :)
hey right now i’m confused on how to get my fleet to be balance it keeps on saying bigger fleet -50.00 then it says new ships joining -40.00 are there any good tactics i could use to make it where balance is near 80% to 100% Edit: i don’t use man the guns dlc
Same thing except half, anything I send this video for Italy if you're not going to build ships I would just cut the number and half for all the Navy compositions
Pretty much yes, unless you can make one of the full fleets yourself it's better just to split it half as Italy. Since mostly the UK Navy it sometimes split up with most of it trying to Garrison it's home Islands if it's a multiplayer, and the only major threat you really have to worry about is France it again if it's multiplayer. Now if it's single player you can easily have the Navy from the Navy compositions in the video and just split them in half and have them Patrol the same areas 😀
If you're going to post Hitler you really need to make one full Fleet that was in this video, If you go for base Germany and build on to it you could quite easily get super heavy battleships and replace the normal battleships and some fleets with those
You state that 24 is the best number of DDs. But you don't explain it sufficient. I get the argument that DDs getting slaugthered. But then why don't use less? Or don't use them at all. CLs are more effectiv against aricraft and do ok against submarines? Later you have a fleet with 60 DDs. Looks to me you don't listen to your own advice?
Ok so you set 1,000 med bombers on naval targeting with a 1,000 fighters with air superiority mission over the english channel...what kind of results do you attain?
Subs are just completly broken in this game... thats why im using mods which buffs the subs... so i managed to get sea superiority against us as poland in 1940
i think they should be able sink destroyers and battleships before 39 sense thats when the sub war started to turn on the germans sense the allies started experimenting with sonar
Well so long paradox does not fix the Navy it is battleships and light cruisers. Literally, except for Japan since first airfleet is a thing. Except romania, with their capital ship Designer, those can make do with battlecruisers. ( atleast in SP, in mp it is rather impossible except when you get the greek coast and the blacksea for dockyards.)
Like a point out in the video, it's a really bad idea to only build battleships in light Cruisers, and the best case scenario that you need an actual Fleet. Who was your week to too many things, for example Destroyers are made to hunt down submarines, light Cruisers are for shooting down aircraft heavy Cruisers are made for sinking other heavy Cruisers, Destroyers, and light Cruisers. Battle Cruisers are cheap battleships, battleships are powerful but they don't have enough detection to do anything. And aircraft carriers are kind of obvious, with that being said a lot of the time if you don't have sufficient reinforcement ships of different types entering the same battle you'll Retreat more often and lose Naval superiority
@@dustinl796 l will be honest with you. Aslong as it stands a combination of lc and battleships with carrier support will destroy any fleet. (4carriers, 6-8 battleships and the double of capital ships in light cruisers, preferably the tripple.) Subs are useless manpower wastes, so long paradox does not change their mechanics, which they really need to. Fuel will also be a huge problem in the future i feel, especially for Japan.
If you really say Subs are a waste of time, do this make a fleet put 10 light Cruisers 20 destroyers and is many submarines you can fit in it and I mean like at least 40. Send it up against the battleship Fleet. You will probably sink up to 10 battleships before any of them can retreat
@@dustinl796 you did read my exemple fleet right? And yes Subs are manpower wastes, at 250 + each that can easily be destroyed with lc's and Destroyers they are.
Be honest when I sent that, I just been forcibly woken up by dogs barking at 3 in the morning and started replying to comments. Might not have been the greatest idea, but you're not supposed to throw Submarine Sandwich Mass of fleets like that. You're supposed to be used for Convoy rating and every once in awhile pop a few of them in with a fleet and hope that they're able if they're upgraded to go in and sink enemy Capital ships if you have enough heavy Cruisers and destroy all of their light Cruisers and destroyers are defenseless against them
This is not how you do navy at all. Most servers have rules for only having 4 carries in a fleet and your fleet compositions won’t work because your carriers are your most important ships and you barely mentioned them. Also you didn’t mention how to fight Navy at all, how to retreat how to send in subs separately or destroyers.
you never want to send in destroyers or subs by themselves, i get your point tho and after man the guns im planning on making a video on new navy ship compositions
Click the button beside the ships all the way on the right, you can click this and change up the taskforce numbers. Also my channel under guides I have a few videos talking about task forces in man the guns
Dustinl796 Videos i tried that but the task force is still the same no ship is added there,and the other task forces are still the same P.S. my goal is to have a task force that contains ships from other task forces that i dont want (adding ships to one task force and reducing ships from other task forces)
Well one thing you could do in that case, by the way when you do it the way I was explaining any new ships constructed that fit the need for the task force will be sent to you. Sounds like you're just going to have to make a new task force then, put all of your ships in the one port by selecting all your Naval groups and hold control and left click a port in the country. This will send all of your ships to that port, then once they're all their merge The Fleets by clicking F1, zoom into the port and select the entire Naval group and then click merge. Now select the naval group and click create new task force and set it up how you need
You have not understand the marine-mechanics. Sometimes its better to read how it works than only to make a video with mentions. The plenalty of carriers is not 20%... its 20% for each carrier over the limit. This means the power of a carrierfleet in percent ist: 100 -> 200 -> 300 -> 400 -> 400 -> 360 -> 280 -> ... With carrier-doctrine (-50% plenalty): 100 -> 200 -> 300 -> 400 -> 450 -> 480 -> 480 -> 480 -> ... This means, without the carrier doctrien you can use 5 carriers or 4 carriers. The 5th carrier gets no powerbonus, only a reserve. With the doctrine you can build up up to 6 carriers, but you get no lesser combatpower with more. And this is pre the DLC. It comes in a week.
The "don't go above 4 CV" is a damn lie. In one of my game, my Japanese 4 lv4 CV got wipe by a US force of 10 CV. I just go fuck it and mass CV against them also after that
holy fucking shit it worked! i totally obliterated the german navy in 1 mouths after the start of the war in 1936 as france :O germans had 0 ships! only with sub traiding convoys of 4, 1 subhunter, 4 air killers and the rest in one naval fleet. too bad they broke throw the maginot when i wasn't watching when preparing the naval invasion :/
It's all good, see don't listen to other people who are arguing that these don't work and all you need to do is just stack Capital ships. You literally just avoided having to deal with building Capital ships and instead used what you had, also thanks for being the first person to prove me right on this 😁
thats what made me make this video, his is kinda outdated and not really practical. if you dont mix ships after waking the tiger update you'll get hit pretty bad by an ai. battleships and carriers have very low detection so you cant see other fleets unless the enemy is on search and destroy looking for you
To be fair, I’m not a proponent of a deathstack fleet. My main fleet is usually 2 destroyers, 2 light cruisers, 6 heavy cruisers, 3 BC, 6 BB, 2 SBB and 4 CV. Min maxing the repair and sending them into safe ports. What often happens is that the enemy death stack will lose nearly all their destroyers and light cruisers nearly instantly and then I can use my fleet’s bigger ships to trash their capital ships with my high tech ships. Some of this may be because I play Black Ice exclusively, (much greater anti air for BB, like 200 vs LC at a paltry 20) so perhaps your speaking about vanilla alone. Good video nonetheless
So then the old ideas of fleet design are out the window? I had watched one by 'Reman's Paradox' months ago: ruclips.net/video/cB3BekaAaO4/видео.html This video put forth that if the industrial capacity can be maintained, then CVs are best to stack then Super BBs, and/or BBs. Mono-fleets essentially being superior to composition fleets. It would seem by your video now that this no longer holds water. Would you be able to test those earlier theories?
To be honest, that video is the one that made me do this video. When designing a flea after waking the Tiger a lot of things were changed, for example battleships have such low surface detection that by themselves they can't detect a thing, if you add just destroys in with them as soon as the Destroyers are dead the battleships will retreat, without light Cruisers or carriers the entire battle group will be completely defenseless against aircraft, yes his video did point out a lot of interesting things when combining fleets together in a small Zone where they have to find each other and can't miss each other in such large groups. But in a practical came in the Pacific or the Atlantic, or even the Mediterranean you need to have a real Fleet, and not just build either aircraft carriers and battleships with Destroyers.
Sorry I didn't see your second part of the comment. That comes to another question again super battleships and aircraft carriers have the two most powerful Capital ships in this game. I'm pretty much the only Capital ships that matter, with aircraft carriers it's easier to detect other naval ships and fleets, was super battleships or heavy battleships they can sync 10 to 20 enemy ships at one time and still survive to fight another day, am I opinion these fleets are the best and if you don't have the industrial capacity to make one full one try to make half of one if you can't make it half of one make 1/4 of 1
So then just to be clear, one should not stack a mono fleet of CVs or BBs anymore (since Waking the Tiger) and instead should just make the intended mixed fleets or barring enough productive power 1/2 to 1/4 scale fleets?
Something along those lines yes, if you just have aircraft carriers all the enemy has to do is have battleships and if your Carriage do stay in the fight and they have Cruisers with carriers the battleships will directly fire on your carriers and sync them. Pretty much you really need to build an actual Fleet compared to stacking one of the other. Now if you stack a ridiculous number like 40 aircraft carriers obviously you're going to win should have so many planes in the battle. But in any serious game I would recommend building mixed fleets like I showed in this video with the different Fleet compositions
You could still win theoretically if the enemy has enough ships to draw you in then they're about ships try to engage you but more than likely you would have to find them and without air radar or some type of 2nd Fleet patrolling around to find them it's very unlikely you would be able to do anything
Dustinl796 Videos I was more or less kidding but I played a game where I was Germany and spammed SHBB with NAV and coastal radars and it was pretty good actually. NAV is pretty good overall and especially in the English Channel, though.
Dustinl796 Videos It's all good. I enjoy your videos and have gained a lot of information from them. You don't have to defend your methodical thinking.
Navys in this game are boring, i just like spam and trow it in the sea, as long as i can make a naval invasion in settled with that """"strategy"""". The seas of my games must be full of corals.
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If your ships are in range of air cover then built battleships .
If your ships are not in range of air cover then built carriers
Am I picking going up against any navy you need carriers, mainly because of the simple fact that if an enemy brings in the carriers sometimes you're Fighters or bombers on an island will not engage leaving the entire fleet to pretty much died at the hands of an eight carrier task force the enemy has
The fleet's carriers will lose sortie efficiency by your air superiority in the sea zone, even if the fighters (or strategic bombers) producing superiority aren't actually participating in the combat.
i'd say for carriers are useful even close to your own ports with air superiority, mostly because carrier-based naval bombers can sortie away many times than land-based bombers.
if something,
if your ships are on range of air cover, bring more naval bombers.
if your ships are not in range of air cover, better run away wherever you have it.
This is something that I couldn't work out. I had a CRAP TONNE of air cover over the Black Sea (as the USSR)... yet my Black Sea Fleet was constantly being attached and sunk/damaged by Axis naval bombers.
I addressed this at a group and someone said that there was something broken in the game where only naval air (i.e. carriers) on CAP would defend ships.
Now, I don't know that this is right, but my (very large... like I had the 2nd biggest airforce after the UK) airforce couldn't knock out a few naval bombers... pissed me off.
My major fleet composition is usually.
3 Carriers
2 Battleships
3 Battlecruisers
8 heavy cruisers
8 light cruisers
24 destroyers
Carrier air wings.
33% fighters
33% CAS
33% naval bombers
This composition with an aircraft carrier doctrine gives me a victory 95% of the time.
The killers are the Carriers the other ships are there to take damage and shoot down aircraft, and the battleships and heavy cruisers along with carrier CAS make amphibious landings easier.
With lots of dockyards these fleets can be made in a moderate amount of time. These are the fleets I use to invade the U.S as Germany.
Note I only played against the AI.
Having higher armor than the enemies piercing halves his damage, thus bigger ships counter smaller, while the natural counter, torpedoes(Subs and DD) are slower, thus are pure superheavy fleet will destroy everything apart from superheavies. This is of course with out air taken into account, that is why these fleets need carriers to provide air superiority to stop torpedo bombers, building dds or any cruiser is a pure waste of production to gain constant superiority over the ocean, if u need only one invasion, spam subs, to gain superiority for a moment through the sheer number
managed to dominate the Atlantic as the German Empire but bit out my teeth trying to invade the US. The armies either got intercepted on their way, pinned down in North America or starved out by my own Allies because for some reason Italy thought it would be a nice Idea to send an additional 30 Divisions to northern Canada to guard ports that could not be invaded as I held total Naval Superiority in that Region.
oof
Well it's Italy so I'm not surprised there.
That's why you need to only send a division of 24 infantry, no tank or anything that need high supply.
First time i invaded canada, it take me forever because of your issue. Since then, i use only 24 marines with 2 line of troops and supports and even with 48 allies with me, i never run out of supply.
That's exactly what I did. I created some of these ultra-light Divisions to fight in Africa and after Rommel failed with his tanks I brought those in and switched von Lettow-Vorbeck (who's a beast south of the Sahara btw) for that Winter Guy (don't know his name)... That was when the Americans simply pinned me down.
did you conquer if you could before invading the Greenland ? The thing is, you need air superiority prior to move forward. But i wouldn't lie by saying it's far easier to conquer north america via what's today called Nova Scotia.
Huh, good tutorial! I finally understand navy!
*puts all ships in a single task force to have them sit in a port until 44, when i have to invade a random island
Small CV task force 6:34
Medium CV task force 7:46
4 CV
10-16 CL
4-6 BB
1-4 BC
6 CA
30-45 DD
Big CV task force 10:10
Fire support 8:02
Surface action group 13:16
Airplane killer 1:40
I am sorry to say but this is again wrong. You suggest not to blob a fleet because your weaker fleet will force the stronger in retreat (not sure how that works). But lets assume that is magically working then u suggest next to send a fleet to his harbor and harbor strike the damaged fleet. But how can your few and weaker CAGs fight off the cheaper and stronger fighter he has in his homeland?
Beside this, you very often say do this do that. But I am missing very often the why.
Well the way this game is design 99% of the naval battle comes down to who has more better ships, and more often than not the older ships that you start with are destroyed in the battle anyway and hardly do anything more than act as meat Shields. By losing most of your Fleet but damaging most of his if he has a mixed Fleet the whole Fleet will go back to Port including his important ships to try to repair, if you're in multiplayer you can then like in the video again Port attacks which damage and often sink his ships and if you have land torpedo bombers and range do even more damage while using the fighters on the carriers for air superiority lowering the interception chance of the torpedo bombers and allowing them to do more damage to his main ships. Wall in Port the aircraft carriers can't even use their own fighters to protect themselves, if you're in multiplayer sometimes Japanese players won't even put are up over their Homeland and instead spam it all over in China.
Dustinl796 Videos What about people microing repairs or using automatic split off?
Edit: Or just not using automatic repairs.
In multiplayer out of 20 games that will probably happen one or two of the times at most, of all the time I've played multiplayer and I mean thousands of hours worth I have only seen that one time that I can think of, and even when he did that his Carrier split off with a super battleship and I did the same thing and destroyed them even easier because they were defenseless in the port
so the proposed strategy is basically good for punishing worse players?
Sonnenglut obviously.
4 Carriers
2 Super Heavy Battleships
4 Battleships
8 Battle Cruisers
8 Heavy Cruisers
16 Light Cruisers
32 Destroyers
16 Submarines
My favorite Fleet Composition, It takes up an entire level 10 port but it hasn't let me down yet.
Hi I’ve been binging your Hoi videos for the last few hours and imho you are the BEST strat/info RUclipsr the things like actually putting up the numbers on screen when it comes to the different fleet comps and not just saying them make a huge difference in quality. Thank you very much for the effort :)
Thanks, comments like this are the reason why I do these videos.
go to remans paradox YT channel, he doesent give u numbers but explains how combat actually works
Dont forget the beautiful strat of abusing the crap outta Japan's Tora Tora Tora bonus giving some bonuses to sorties in general but most importantly a -50% carrier overcrowding debuff that with the mass strikes doctrine research you can now stack 8+ carriers in 1 fleet and delete the entire Pacific fleet of the US in milliseconds if you find any of their fleets
This is an amazing video but could you do a review of remans video where he shows and tests why you should only produce battleships and carriers. Love the content it’s really informative keep it up man
first thanks for the comment, i saw that video and thats why i made this video. the way he tested is not practical in a real game, when you have different ships fighting it depends on the whole fleet and yes carriers and battleships are op but when you have screens, capital ships and cv's then those kind of videos dont matter anymore. its like making a 40 width division with all at against a 40 width super heavy tank division. the at is better but because it has no org it would be defeated by the tanks.
Thanks very much pal
I think aircraft carriers no close air support, and bigger ships like heavy cruisers and BB's should be used, some destroyers to soak up some damage, while your carriers with fighters and naval bombers can kill their big ships and conquer the air, your destroyers MAY take some of the offensive damage and their cheap, then your BB can sort of get in the way of your carriers, and inflict a lot of damage to the enemy.
I imagine what you have as the "light" carrier task force is something you could try to build if you are playing a minor and want to have a reasonably strong navy to defend your coast? Those larger task forces seem impossible with the limited industry smaller countries would have.
yea or for just costal defense against a big navy like japan of uk if going fascist usa
Just use 4x carriers and 10x battleships
or more than 6 to counter the pennalte
What if I'm Australia and don't have the manpower or factory output to do that?
Dustinl796 Videos what do you mean, sorry i am a new player
@@ackerman6709 6 or nore CV in a fight can negate its "carrier overcrowding" penalty due to mass of CV planes they have.
Btw, How does Massed strike efffect overcrowding? This keep bugging me
Loving this game even tho pretty complicated. You’re videos really helping me out.
glad to help :)
Thanks, used the Large Carrier Task Force in single player against the British Navy, the U.S navy and the Canadian navy and only lost a few destroyers!
;)
Title suggestion: Hearts of Iron 4 Naval Combat Ship & Fleet Composition for USA
It doesn't just work for United States though, you can make the exact same composition with ease as Italy, Japan, france and uk and if you start working hard on your Navy as Germany and split it half you have the same effect as long as they're Advanced ships.
Not really. He gives a fairly decent explanation as to what each sector does and why. So, as the USSR, if you needed 'air protection' groups you'd build the air killer. If as Australia you needed Sub killers you'd build a sub killer fleet. Pretty simple.
He's probably used the USA because they have everything. Romania may not need everything, but can pick and choose.
I love playing as Japan, and naval combat is some of the coolest mechanics to work with. I'd love to do a game with you if you're ever on.
Yea, i love navy on this game more than army sense navy takes so long to build back up.
It's easy when you play with USA, to produce so many of fleet.When I played as Germany, i produced 6 battleships,2 AC,10 Heavy cruisers, 20 light cuisers,2 super heavy battleships,50 destroyers and 60 submarines, until 1940.
Nice........
Wtf that Wolf Pack tactic at the end has me rethinking the Kreigsmarine. I mean its basically a sacrificial force for Operation Sea Lion, but if I just need the few bs surface ships to lure in the Royal Navy and wipe the floor with them via subs it would be worth it. Hmmmm now I gotta test this shit.
I played as italy recently and I used base strike with a large number of fighters and CAS. Basically make no carriers and battleships, suply about 2k fighters and 2k CAS (on naval bombing) and you'll grind the allied fleet so quickly that you can take North America and England Before they can rebuild
Those little sub stacks can ruin the AI in particular (inattentive players too, but always works vs AI). There are lots of sea zones along convoy routes the AI just doesn't cover so you can single handedly ruin its war effort with pretty trashy fleets and some military access.
its kind of confusing for people that are trying to learn the game because A) its not explained in the game B) the game is being patched as if it were an early access mmo when a single player strategy game should not be changing like that except in expansion packs.
This is awesome, you should do a similar thing with the airforce and explain how to use it properly
did already, ill make a better one tho 😁
Unfortunately, this is completely wrong. The sea combat meta is completely broken and your main combat fleets should NEVER include anything but battleships/battle cruisers and aircraft carriers. Period. The only other ships you need are a handful of destroyers and light cruisers to control sea zones that your main fleets have cleared. Submarines will never attack your BB/CV fleets. If you doubt this, test it. Send a fleet of subs to attack a fleet of nothing but BB/BCs and see what happens. You do need CVs for air defense and port strikes, but nothing else. No cruisers, no light cruisers, no destroyers and no subs. Small groups of DDs and CLs are needed strictly for controlling sea zones.
Here's the problem, if you don't have destroyers and you're in multiplayer a lot of the times recently people have been making fleets to counter that whole idea of only building Capital ships, for example I did this multiplayer the other day where I put a lot of Destroyers in one Fleet and then put Subs at it, I mean the fleet all together was around a hundred twenty, I lost all the Destroyers yes but because the Destroyers Drew in the ships and the subs finished them off I killed over 70 Capital ships in one fight, and I was Japan he was USA. That is why you need to have a fleet mixed, if you don't have an aircraft carrier you're at a disadvantage to someone who does have one, if you don't have a battleship you're at a disadvantage and you're going to lose more in the long run, even though there is a metal that says just stack good ships and you'll be fine think about the old meta. It used to say that if you made enough interwar fighters from the beginning of the game you can outmatch the enemy in the air superiority, that was a common meta when the game first came out and after enough research and enough arguments people started realizing that that was completely stupid, someday people will understand the importance of having a real Fleet compared to the idea of having exclusively Capital ships
Dustin, respectfully, the mechanics of naval combat don't change between single and multi-player, and it is the mechanics of naval combat resolution that cause the problem. I would like nothing better than the next DLC "Man the Guns" to fix naval combat so that balanced fleets are a necessity as they were in real life, but right now, fleets of nothing but BB/BCs and CVs is all you need for defeating enemies. I've tested this MANY times. As the Germans, I have crushed the entire British and French navies with about a dozen BCs and 2 early CVs. Subs never even engage, destroyers never get within range to launch torpedo strikes (the combat system only allows them to use torpedoes 25% of the time and guns 75%) and DD, CL, and CA guns have a 90% damage penalty versus BB/BCs because of armor vs piercing. Thus, the only ships which can damage mine are the enemy BB/BCs. This does not change in multi-player. While you spend resources and dockyard capacity on building CAs, CLs, DDs and Subs, I'll be devoting my entire dockyard capacity to building BCs and CVs. As I build more dockyards, I'll devote a few - and I mean a few - to build small groups of CLs and DDs to control rear-area sea zones. Thus, if we have near parity in dockyards, then I will ALWAYS have a lot more BBs/BCs than you and I will always win. Personally, I prefer BCs over BBs simply because you get about 80% of the firepower and armor with significantly fewer resources and a faster build time, and I use my naval XP to upgrade the armor.
Im going to guess you are talking about ramens paradox naval video, that was done before waking the Tiger was released and some things were changed. Even on the developer stream one day Dan Lin explain how that video is obsolete with the new Naval mechanics. For example a couple things that were added we're now there's a much much higher than previous Retreat chance if a enemy has something in their Fleet and you don't so the fleet Admiral would feel outmatched and try to retreat. Just like my air Doctrine video I had destroyers battleships and carriers in one Fleet but as soon as the planes were gone the battleships and destroyers refuse to fight each other because of how small and how evenly matched they both were
The only videos I've seen about naval compositions are yours, and one from a RUclipsr called FeedBackGaming. I dug into the code to find out why I was getting slaughtered in naval battles and because the mechanics of naval battles were/are completely unexplained. I rarely rely on videos for information about games because so often the information is wrong and/or the analysis and conclusions are flawed. Sifting through the code isn't rocket science but it is the source of my information. I looked for the stream you mentioned and I could not find it. I have not gone back to look for code changes, so I cannot dispute that changes were made. What I can dispute is that it had any effect on the game. If you have researched the naval doctrines that buff capital ship organization from either the Fleet-in-Being tree or the Trade Interdiction tree, then your chances of retreating are much less. Since I always research doctrines to buff capital ship organization before the war starts, I've noticed no changes at all. My fleets do not retreat from battle. Only the damaged ships disengage based on my repair settings.
If you want I'm planning on doing the live stream in a couple days, if I play the United States I'll only make those exactly compositions for the Navy and try it in the Pacific
Love these tutorial videos!
Love the comments
Great tutorial. I learned a lot from this.
Glad to Have Helped :)
@@dustinl796 I just watched Reman's naval composition video since some people in the comments said that battleships only fleet is the way to go. I am quite confused about how to build capital fleets now. Could please tell why your mixed fleet naval combo is better than batteships only?
any non destroyer-sub + massive amounts of nav is the best fleet
Finally I get good tips xD
;)
I just rush 1940 CL's and BC's. Go for max speed (38+ knots) and spam to end game.
Sounds interesting, guess ill try it
What do you do with the old ships (BB,CA, Coastals) that are too slow to be in "modern" battle fleets and too big to be in anything but deep oceans without massive penalty?
Upon some testing, you only need carriers and tons of planes on them, you don't even need submarines or any escort for the carriers, just spam with shitton of cv naval bombers
Well ues and no if you dont have fighters with your carriers and the enemy does you will loose almost every single torp bomber. So if you had 10 carriers with 50 youd loose around 500
@@dustinl796 I usually do like 51% fighter 49% naval bomber
if you look at test, build only battleship is always better than alternatives, at parity of production cost, battleship always win.
Well there's a lot of people in the comments section that disagree with you
@@dustinl796
Facts are not reliant on opinion.
If you did ANY tests you would know better.
I have done test, but instead of doing them in single player I've done them secretly in multiplayer games. I've gone up against fleets of over 200 ships with nothing more that submarines destroyers and light Cruisers and come out on top, and by that I mean I won the battles while keeping all of my Capital ships at bay
@@dustinl796
Maybe you could, I dont know...
SHOW US THE TESTS!!!!!!!!
If everything is as you say, you could just have filmed these "tests" of yours. And show them in the Video.
I never really filmed them at the time, I am planning I'm doing a video showing each of the groups in this video doing their job but you could easily try it out in single player right now. All you need a lot of Destroyers and light Cruisers to draw the ships in and then the submarines take out the enemy ships, that is if they're spamming Capital ships.
These are really expensive fleet comps, how long does it usually take you to make your SAG (Surface) and Thicc Carrier task force?
To be honest with you, I was playing the United States in the multiplayer game built 45 dockyards, and save the game kind of late whenever the host had to leave. At least as the United States you start out with almost as many ships as they're in the video, if they're really expensive something else you could do depending on what nation you are is split the compositions and 1/2, or if that doesn't work and it's still too expensive split them in half again
gonna try this at my japanese campaign against AI China
Why? China doesnt have a navy 😂🤣
They have 7 ships
Why would you go for all three types (CA, BC, and BB) instead of JUST battle ships?
It seems that, if you can afford the production of battle ships, those are the best of the three? They do more damage and can take more, so.....
Would love to hear your thoughts!!
Because those cant fight subs and lack aa, so if you encounter someone with a massive fleet of subs and destroyers (so they attack) then ca, bb, and cvs get wrwcked
Wow, that was a quick reply on an old vid, thanks!
To be clear, I don't mean get an only-BS fleet. Just to get no other capitals ships (except for carriers). So you'd end up with, based on your 10:15 overview, something like this:
60 DD
32 CL
10 BS
8 CC
I respond to all my comments, or atleast try to 😁. Back to your thing tho, well cvs are great but the same thing happens and if all the planes are lost nothing stops the subs, so youd loose way more sense the planes are gone too. Thats why i always make fleets in groups from shore bombardment, surface action, aa, patrol and carrier task force so they cover every possibility
Your videos are really helping me with the game, so thanks, but I have one question. I start out with these awful task forces and no balance, so how do I delete those starting task forces without getting rid of the ships and combining the ships to make the task forces you recommended?
Just double-click them or merge the fleet then click the ship's holding shift and create a new task force :-)
Since in the civil war spains navy gets split and you lose one part.What composition is good for spain?
One way to use this video is look at the Navy you currently have, and then compare it to the one on the video, for example one Fleet if I remember had eight battleships, 4 aircraft carriers, 20 destroyers, 10 Cruisers, 10 heavy Cruisers, if you only have a quarter of the available ships you can still try to get as close to this composition as possible or add up the total number of ships you have in each category and divide them. As long as it's over 20-30 ships you should be fine
Can you please do a video where you explain all the ship types? Some still confuse me
when man the guns comes out im planning on it
Here is a good question: what is the point of heavy cruisers and why not just build a mix of light cruisers and battleships? I mean, didn't the Dreadnoght render CA ships obsolete as just crappier BBs? And if you gonna build Battleships anyway why bother wasting a reserch slot on CA line....
well you can but they way ships work are resources and job, light cruisers try to attack but cant really damage subs like destroyers, battleships are very expensive and take a while compared to heavy cruisers (which are weaker) but they can pop 3-5 in the time for a battleship
Do you put the Air Killers in groups of three on the same line as your main fleet or do you just put them in with the main fleet. Like I would put a scout group on the same line as my main fleet, not IN the fleet... sorry, crappy explanation.
Great info! Does this carry over into HOI4: Man the Guns?
Yes
Make a Submarine blueprint with lvl 3 torpedoes and engine and lvl 1 snorkel. Build 500 of those and watch you get banned in MP lobbies
lmao
Can you do a tutorial about the NEW navy staff after the release of Man the Guns?
planning on it :)
@@dustinl796 Thank you so much!!! i'll wait for it because for what i see so far its more complicated!!
Gotta do a ocean meta for road to 56 mod. Please man. Idk what I need to research!
uhh, maybe
How do you combine ships to make a task force?
hit (f2) or click the ship icon in the bottom right, then combine the naval groups by selecting several by shift clicking then once selected combine :)
1:54 I could not stop them FULL STOP
i watched it 2 times to make sure i edited it right 😂. just goes to show why you shouldn't edit while being sleepy at 4 am
hey right now i’m confused on how to get my fleet to be balance it keeps on saying bigger fleet -50.00 then it says new ships joining -40.00 are there any good tactics i could use to make it where balance is near 80% to 100%
Edit: i don’t use man the guns dlc
Use smaller groups, try to max it at 72ish
What composition would you use for an Italian navy?
Same thing except half, anything I send this video for Italy if you're not going to build ships I would just cut the number and half for all the Navy compositions
Dustinl796 Videos do example your 4 carrier fleet just half it
Pretty much yes, unless you can make one of the full fleets yourself it's better just to split it half as Italy. Since mostly the UK Navy it sometimes split up with most of it trying to Garrison it's home Islands if it's a multiplayer, and the only major threat you really have to worry about is France it again if it's multiplayer. Now if it's single player you can easily have the Navy from the Navy compositions in the video and just split them in half and have them Patrol the same areas 😀
what Composition should you do for germany both for oppose hitler and not
If you're going to post Hitler you really need to make one full Fleet that was in this video, If you go for base Germany and build on to it you could quite easily get super heavy battleships and replace the normal battleships and some fleets with those
ok tanks
hello
Does your mechanic works with the blackice mod ? Otherwise thanks for the info
it should, i dont think black ice changes the naval stats, just the names and ship types
what about splitting up damaged ships for repair?
Not worth it, ai has ships patroling or planes attacking sea zones so if they split they will likely be attacked by themselvs getting wrecked
@@dustinl796 ah i never went into a far away offensive naval battle, only patroling or roaming my close waters there it worked pretty well for me
You state that 24 is the best number of DDs. But you don't explain it sufficient. I get the argument that DDs getting slaugthered. But then why don't use less? Or don't use them at all. CLs are more effectiv against aricraft and do ok against submarines? Later you have a fleet with 60 DDs. Looks to me you don't listen to your own advice?
I think it is due to 24 is a easliy divideable number. 8 DDs to each areas to patrol/S&D/raid etc.
Gotta have a summary of this mate.
write it down in a notepad?
@@dustinl796 can't when I got no paper near me while I'm in a multi player game.
someone please tell me why land based naval planes (no matter the number) don't do shit to naval vessels?
they do but need to be medium bombers set to naval targeting, bass torpedo bombers in my games dont do nothing
Ok so you set 1,000 med bombers on naval targeting with a 1,000 fighters with air superiority mission over the english channel...what kind of results do you attain?
Subs are just completly broken in this game... thats why im using mods which buffs the subs... so i managed to get sea superiority against us as poland in 1940
i think they should be able sink destroyers and battleships before 39 sense thats when the sub war started to turn on the germans sense the allies started experimenting with sonar
@@dustinl796 i think they should add an sonar upgrade and torpedo upgrades in the research in the base game... i think road to 56 adds this
How’d you manage to get the highest tier ships in 1936???
I used the cheat for video sake 😁
Before i wast 18 mins of my life (bc I'll probably forget all of it xd) is this with or without man the guns dlc?
It's with but it doesn't cover anything about oil, or man the guns mechanics that are not already free in Hearts of Iron 4
That "SUBSCRIBE" bar intrusively appearing threw me off.
creepy aint it ;)
Well so long paradox does not fix the Navy it is battleships and light cruisers. Literally, except for Japan since first airfleet is a thing.
Except romania, with their capital ship Designer, those can make do with battlecruisers. ( atleast in SP, in mp it is rather impossible except when you get the greek coast and the blacksea for dockyards.)
Like a point out in the video, it's a really bad idea to only build battleships in light Cruisers, and the best case scenario that you need an actual Fleet. Who was your week to too many things, for example Destroyers are made to hunt down submarines, light Cruisers are for shooting down aircraft heavy Cruisers are made for sinking other heavy Cruisers, Destroyers, and light Cruisers. Battle Cruisers are cheap battleships, battleships are powerful but they don't have enough detection to do anything. And aircraft carriers are kind of obvious, with that being said a lot of the time if you don't have sufficient reinforcement ships of different types entering the same battle you'll Retreat more often and lose Naval superiority
@@dustinl796 l will be honest with you. Aslong as it stands a combination of lc and battleships with carrier support will destroy any fleet. (4carriers, 6-8 battleships and the double of capital ships in light cruisers, preferably the tripple.)
Subs are useless manpower wastes, so long paradox does not change their mechanics, which they really need to.
Fuel will also be a huge problem in the future i feel, especially for Japan.
If you really say Subs are a waste of time, do this make a fleet put 10 light Cruisers 20 destroyers and is many submarines you can fit in it and I mean like at least 40. Send it up against the battleship Fleet. You will probably sink up to 10 battleships before any of them can retreat
@@dustinl796 you did read my exemple fleet right?
And yes Subs are manpower wastes, at 250 + each that can easily be destroyed with lc's and Destroyers they are.
Be honest when I sent that, I just been forcibly woken up by dogs barking at 3 in the morning and started replying to comments. Might not have been the greatest idea, but you're not supposed to throw Submarine Sandwich Mass of fleets like that. You're supposed to be used for Convoy rating and every once in awhile pop a few of them in with a fleet and hope that they're able if they're upgraded to go in and sink enemy Capital ships if you have enough heavy Cruisers and destroy all of their light Cruisers and destroyers are defenseless against them
This is not how you do navy at all. Most servers have rules for only having 4 carries in a fleet and your fleet compositions won’t work because your carriers are your most important ships and you barely mentioned them. Also you didn’t mention how to fight Navy at all, how to retreat how to send in subs separately or destroyers.
you never want to send in destroyers or subs by themselves, i get your point tho and after man the guns im planning on making a video on new navy ship compositions
I just played hoi4 and im confused on how to edit a task force,can anyone help??
Click the button beside the ships all the way on the right, you can click this and change up the taskforce numbers. Also my channel under guides I have a few videos talking about task forces in man the guns
Dustinl796 Videos you mean the task force composition editor?
Yes
Dustinl796 Videos i tried that but the task force is still the same no ship is added there,and the other task forces are still the same
P.S. my goal is to have a task force that contains ships from other task forces that i dont want (adding ships to one task force and reducing ships from other task forces)
Well one thing you could do in that case, by the way when you do it the way I was explaining any new ships constructed that fit the need for the task force will be sent to you. Sounds like you're just going to have to make a new task force then, put all of your ships in the one port by selecting all your Naval groups and hold control and left click a port in the country. This will send all of your ships to that port, then once they're all their merge The Fleets by clicking F1, zoom into the port and select the entire Naval group and then click merge. Now select the naval group and click create new task force and set it up how you need
So only building super-heavy is not good ideam
Well they take no pennalties to forts soo........
You have not understand the marine-mechanics. Sometimes its better to read how it works than only to make a video with mentions.
The plenalty of carriers is not 20%... its 20% for each carrier over the limit. This means the power of a carrierfleet in percent ist:
100 -> 200 -> 300 -> 400 -> 400 -> 360 -> 280 -> ...
With carrier-doctrine (-50% plenalty):
100 -> 200 -> 300 -> 400 -> 450 -> 480 -> 480 -> 480 -> ...
This means, without the carrier doctrien you can use 5 carriers or 4 carriers. The 5th carrier gets no powerbonus, only a reserve. With the doctrine you can build up up to 6 carriers, but you get no lesser combatpower with more.
And this is pre the DLC. It comes in a week.
As someone who went up against a 27 carrier fleet as japan trust me. It does
The "don't go above 4 CV" is a damn lie. In one of my game, my Japanese 4 lv4 CV got wipe by a US force of 10 CV. I just go fuck it and mass CV against them also after that
holy fucking shit it worked! i totally obliterated the german navy in 1 mouths after the start of the war in 1936 as france :O
germans had 0 ships! only with sub traiding convoys of 4, 1 subhunter, 4 air killers and the rest in one naval fleet. too bad they broke throw the maginot when i wasn't watching when preparing the naval invasion :/
It's all good, see don't listen to other people who are arguing that these don't work and all you need to do is just stack Capital ships. You literally just avoided having to deal with building Capital ships and instead used what you had, also thanks for being the first person to prove me right on this 😁
ahah you're welcome, i only know the very basics of the game, i'm starting to learn how to actually get something right
but only worked that time wtf have i done o.O
You broke it 😑
his ships must be made of tinfoil if he's got that many
Nah i used a cheat to make them for the sake of the video
@@dustinl796 I've tried starting a new America run but the layout of all the units is so overwhelming I quit after 5 minutes.
Whats the TL;DW composition?
Huh?
@@dustinl796
Like, what's a brief summary of the ideal compositions? So I can come back and reference them without watching the video again.
Oh, well tbh these are suppose to be more examples not totally copied but ill paste them soon
@@dustinl796
Cool
Fire Support / (Shore Bombardment) - 2-4BB, 4CA, 6 CL, 18DD
SUB HUNTER / Patrol / - 1 CL, Per 3 DD, - 4CL, 12 DD
Air Killer, 1CL, 2DD
Light Carrier Task Force, 1-3CV,4-12 CL, 2-4 BB, 5-8 CA, 24D
Carrier Task Force, 4CV, 10-16CL, 4-6BB, 1-4 Battlecruisers, 6 CA, 30-45DD
Carrier Task Force, 4-8CV, 1-3BB 16-32 CL, 1-4 Battlecruisers, 2-3 CA, 30-60 DD,
Surface Action Group, 6-10 BB, 20-35 CL, 2-4 CA, 30-45 DD,
What about Ramens naval video?
thats what made me make this video, his is kinda outdated and not really practical. if you dont mix ships after waking the tiger update you'll get hit pretty bad by an ai. battleships and carriers have very low detection so you cant see other fleets unless the enemy is on search and destroy looking for you
@@dustinl796, thx for response
I don’t think the aa killer will work on black ice
Also, they could just disable repair automatically...
To be fair, I’m not a proponent of a deathstack fleet. My main fleet is usually 2 destroyers, 2 light cruisers, 6 heavy cruisers, 3 BC, 6 BB, 2 SBB and 4 CV. Min maxing the repair and sending them into safe ports. What often happens is that the enemy death stack will lose nearly all their destroyers and light cruisers nearly instantly and then I can use my fleet’s bigger ships to trash their capital ships with my high tech ships. Some of this may be because I play Black Ice exclusively, (much greater anti air for BB, like 200 vs LC at a paltry 20) so perhaps your speaking about vanilla alone. Good video nonetheless
thx for the complement :)
Slow down changing scenes I blink and miss them you are going so fast...
Sorry I'll try to go slower 😁
@@dustinl796 Thanks 😊
Carrier only
Uhh, no
Useful, but no anti-submarine measures =(
Use destroyer groups with light cruisers
So then the old ideas of fleet design are out the window? I had watched one by 'Reman's Paradox' months ago: ruclips.net/video/cB3BekaAaO4/видео.html
This video put forth that if the industrial capacity can be maintained, then CVs are best to stack then Super BBs, and/or BBs. Mono-fleets essentially being superior to composition fleets. It would seem by your video now that this no longer holds water. Would you be able to test those earlier theories?
To be honest, that video is the one that made me do this video. When designing a flea after waking the Tiger a lot of things were changed, for example battleships have such low surface detection that by themselves they can't detect a thing, if you add just destroys in with them as soon as the Destroyers are dead the battleships will retreat, without light Cruisers or carriers the entire battle group will be completely defenseless against aircraft, yes his video did point out a lot of interesting things when combining fleets together in a small Zone where they have to find each other and can't miss each other in such large groups. But in a practical came in the Pacific or the Atlantic, or even the Mediterranean you need to have a real Fleet, and not just build either aircraft carriers and battleships with Destroyers.
Sorry I didn't see your second part of the comment. That comes to another question again super battleships and aircraft carriers have the two most powerful Capital ships in this game. I'm pretty much the only Capital ships that matter, with aircraft carriers it's easier to detect other naval ships and fleets, was super battleships or heavy battleships they can sync 10 to 20 enemy ships at one time and still survive to fight another day, am I opinion these fleets are the best and if you don't have the industrial capacity to make one full one try to make half of one if you can't make it half of one make 1/4 of 1
So then just to be clear, one should not stack a mono fleet of CVs or BBs anymore (since Waking the Tiger) and instead should just make the intended mixed fleets or barring enough productive power 1/2 to 1/4 scale fleets?
Something along those lines yes, if you just have aircraft carriers all the enemy has to do is have battleships and if your Carriage do stay in the fight and they have Cruisers with carriers the battleships will directly fire on your carriers and sync them. Pretty much you really need to build an actual Fleet compared to stacking one of the other. Now if you stack a ridiculous number like 40 aircraft carriers obviously you're going to win should have so many planes in the battle. But in any serious game I would recommend building mixed fleets like I showed in this video with the different Fleet compositions
Thanks for clearing that up.
So I can't just spam SHBB and automatically win? WTF uninstall.
You could still win theoretically if the enemy has enough ships to draw you in then they're about ships try to engage you but more than likely you would have to find them and without air radar or some type of 2nd Fleet patrolling around to find them it's very unlikely you would be able to do anything
Dustinl796 Videos I was more or less kidding but I played a game where I was Germany and spammed SHBB with NAV and coastal radars and it was pretty good actually. NAV is pretty good overall and especially in the English Channel, though.
Going back and reading it it's odd, I knew what the time you were being sarcastic you know I went in such detail. God trolls are getting to me
Dustinl796 Videos It's all good. I enjoy your videos and have gained a lot of information from them. You don't have to defend your methodical thinking.
nah fuck that just death stack
well in sp you can but mp servers have alot of rulles against death stacks now
Navys in this game are boring, i just like spam and trow it in the sea, as long as i can make a naval invasion in settled with that """"strategy"""".
The seas of my games must be full of corals.
Agree, navy is pretty boring unless you are in a multiplayer game limiting it
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Dont blaspheme