As a reader, stories where the protagonist supposedly has flaws but they are never confronted confuse me. Why even include them in the first place if they won't be a central point?
Because they've been told that their protagonist needs to have flaws, but were never made to understand what role those flaws are supposed to have in driving the plot.
@@Frostbite08 I used to be active in the writing community on DeviantArt, and the number of aspiring writers who thought they needed some kind of laundry list of traits for their characters, almost none of which had anything to do with the story, was actually kind of tragic. And they need to be somehow quirky on top of that, so they all end up as procrastinators with heterochromia or some kind of similarly useless combination.
@@the-chillian nailed it. Imo the greatest purpose of story is to help the reader be a better person (vague I know). I think there can be flaws unrelated to the main theme if they help characters interact, explore the world, or move the plot along, but the MCs main flaw should play an important role in how they grow as a person (so we can learn how to grow too).
As a young writer, I have been having a field day binging all of your videos! These are all so helpful, and I am very grateful that I found them. Just wanted to give you some engagement, so that others can see your content too :)
I'm at number three and this has already helped me more than the last three channels I've been to. I'm a writer working on becoming a first time author, and thank you for helping light my path by showing yours.
You said you were still refining your equation, so here's some feedback: 1) Aside from cost of failure, potential reward of success is also important. Just fighting for the status quo isnt always that satisfying. If your characters have a lot to gain, especially in regards to personal conflict, that adds a lot. So perhaps X (cost of failure+reward of success) 2) Have you considered the aspects of in-story chance of success vs meta chance of success? 3) Have you considered the various aspects or degrees of success you can have (for example a bigger task is failed somewhat inevitably, but minor successes are achieved, or the opposite)
@@rubythorns2349 Well, something may realistically have a low chance of happening, but since it's a story, the reader will know 100% the protagonist will defeat it, or survive the poison, or whatever it may be. How connected the two are often depends on the tone set up beforehand, so a Game of Thrones reader will be terrified at a battle that has the protagonists unlikely to win, and will rejoice that much more when they succeed.
@@trafalgarlaw8373 Oh gotcha. Reminds me of character "deaths" in kids shows where they are always brought back somehow because you can't just traumatize kids like that
Number 2 is a very valid point. So what if the protagonist has to defeat dozens of monsters and escape a booby-trapped labirynth under 5 minutes. We know this is impossible but... you know, plot armor exists.
@@missAlice1990 Of course, a reader can buy into that and be enthralled nonetheless, but some actual possible stakes are nice. For example, will they be able to also help their new friend escape, or will that one die?
May I recommend "rewording" that formula ==> (attachment to character) * (attachment to outcome) * (failure cost) * (failure chances) + cool factor psychologically, division is much harder to process (especially because it highlights a _bad_ thing you want to not do). So instead, word things to focus on the behavior you _want_ to keep. Mathematically, my above suggestion is literally the same thing because (failure chances) = 1 / (success chances)
Loved your explanations of modulating conflict, both 1) a calm scene being interrupted by high conflict or 2) a calm scene juxtaposing the known, high-conflict scene to come.
I would like to add one to your list ...if i am allowed? " Leave room for mystery and guessing... The whole "picture" should always remain shrouded even when your intended story has already ended ! " The greatest or most engaging stories make you speculate and think make you formulate theories and leaves you guessing...those stories make you seek out others to discuss or listen to their thoughts guesses and theories... There are good stories that never managed to become great and many times its because the author had and an inherent need to explain everything to the reader/watcher slowly removing the mystery of their world and all thats left is the feeling of wasting your time with another predictable generic story. One of the main reasons modern "content" ( it does not deserve to be called anything else) sucks is because modern authors have this almost inherently compulsory need to unpack and pre-digest(💩) the plot for you they really explain every single reason something happens every single little object and why it exists every single backstory every bit of world building detail to you as if you are too stupid to discover it yourself... the guessing the mystery the suprise discovery of new details and connections upon rereading/rewatching or someone pointing it out to you is what makes certain stories great works of art while other remain "content"... its like spices and herbs in a delicious meal nobody likes to eat bland food if they have choice. If this was already explained i am sorry i am still catching up and didnt have time to watch some of your videos...
You might want to note in your chance of success that it is affected both by the stories odds, what the characters are challenged with; and the meta odds, how much does the reader think you as the author will let the character fail. I.e. seeing a small group die vs. ending your world.
I'm writing a story about a morally grey character that will leave the readers wondering whether they are good or bad from the beginning to middle. Towards the end, they do some things that they regret due to grief (although its not too excusable) from a loved one who passed early on. Its a negative character arc with magical elements and parallel universes. Your videos have helped me so much during my writing process. Thank you!
In terms of conflict an interesting character or race of characters are the Orcs from WH40K. Nothing that they encounter is ever viewed by them as a negative, every challenge they encounter just makes what they are doing more fun, more exciting more Orky. The Orc POV clashes so hard with the other non insane groups in universe that a reader gets pulled along with them doing stupid and dangerous things and wanting them to succeed. I guess when belief warps reality to match your beliefs your views on conflict changes.
This particular video is _EXCELLENT!!_ The knowledge and insights are absolutely essential in my figuring out the motivations of my main characters... and not a moment too soon! _Truly:: Thank you!_
I agree, breaking the character is fun, makes me shiver and has such great chance to sofisticate or erase character traits. It makes the character better and relatable. and sooo much growth. It's one of the best writing advises! Thank you so much Jed! The one question I had in my concept art, I drew, was, "What would you sacrifice to have it all?" And it drives the entire book. It's an alternate universe thing. [not a boring complete opposite though] My character is: always with friends fights for justice is in an A++ training track in her school with pro Orders doing extra courses "does what's right" - at least in her eyes She's magically "weak" but excelles in bringing out a group's strength. Lost one of her best friends (Crownprincess) in a coup as she was too weak to save her compassionate/mercyful In that storyline I break her in all catagories, mentally, physically, and "faith in her credo" (kinda afraid sometimes I can't bring her back from the brink myself) She's "all alone" - without her class and mentors - her "new team" might (have to) kill her to save their universe Justice wise, she's at fault for the disater Her training has not prepared her for such a crazy scenario/ hits it's limit Doing what's right means - she'll potentially loose everything. (her way home) She gains major power a "Demi God" grants her a bit of his power Another version of her friend she's lost, is again, in mortal danger, this time because of her There is no mercy/compassion/trust/love for her. since she can't fully trust anyone and she's the key for the two outcomes So, the major question for that story line is indeed "What would you sacrifice to have it all?" She either sticks to her credo, do what's right and just. And hope the new allies are strong enough - or - side with the Antagonist that promisis her releasing her friend, getting back to her dimension and therefore ending the crisis - but he doesn't tell her "how" that works or what cost that would mean in the end. he's a psycho and maniac and does everything to break her. So, lots of mind games, corruption, metal/phyiscal challanges from all sides herself, the justice system, her allies and the antagonist. A breakingpoint test of her credo and training. Super fun to write.
What i like about these videos is unlike many other channels like his, what may seem daunting at first actually becomes more about organizing the random ideas I’ve had into words in paper (ie ways i wanna challenge my character specifically) than brainstorming new content. I have what I heard him refer to as I think worldbuilders block or something where i just cant seem to stop learning and planning to start doing and these make me readdress things ive struggled to put real energy into. Its clear that he has experience actually helping writers get things accomplished
One of my character's weakness is being uncertain and scared all tge time, in the fourth book i'll make him overcome his weaknesses by making him risk his own life for his friend there being huge risk for dying
conflict targeting the character's weakness has always been my issue, because i have always enjoyed writing descriptions of combat and such.... thoough i have recently wrote the best one i have written which was so simple: protagonist is accustomed to the brute force approach, now he's trapped in a chamber and he can't simply kick the door down he has to solve the puzzle and unlock the seal to escape
Your videos are getting better with each upload, I'm always eagerly waiting for the next one! Every time, you make me want to sit down and keep on writing. Thank you, Jed!!
I bit off more than I can chew this time. I am trying to write a book about the life of a revolution leader after overthrowing a galactic empire. It also touches on the fact that most post revolution countries end up under worse regimes than the ones they overthrew in the prior revolution. On top of that, it also deals with the fact that the main character who previously liberated the galaxy reforges himself into a military dictator to quell the gangs and crime lords who filled the power vacuum after the fall of the previous empire, but ultimately fails to give the people freedom, due to his fear of freedom making a new order of criminal empires and gangs possible. These concepts are not simple, small, and easy, to address . I have studied more history than most other high school graduates, but I still feel inadequate to satisfactorily and realistically depict these things.
Sounds like Star Wars, animal farm crossover. Seriously though , I see an interesting overarching grand view that would be difficult to write all at once. I’d recommend breaking the story down into bite size portions. Rather than trying to write all of this into every scene, build it up a little at a time with simple scenes that demonstrate the conflict through what’s happening in the character’s life. Let the reader learn about the galactic troubles a little at a time in how they affect the characters and the ones they care about. You’ll augment reader investment in the characters and the political environment won’t be as overwhelming to portray.
To be constructive, I think this video is weakened by the poor counter examples you give. Obviously an argument over the dishes is bad conflict, and obviously taking the character who needs other people around to progress and putting her on a desert island alone is bad conflict. It would have been much more useful to take a conflict that works in part, explain why some parts don't work, how to improve them, and how a writer may have made this mistake in the first place. That is, what portions of the earlier story caused the writer to progress into the weak conflict in the first place? Could they be changed to progress into a stronger conflict? Counter examples need to be mistakes that writers would realistically make, not obvious mistakes hardly anyone would make.
I hope your name is indicative of the variety of response you went for. The examples are obvious bad to put things in perspective and make it as obvious as possible to viewers what he was referring to as a mistake.
@@michaeld.henryiii6703 Making them obviously bad does not put them into perspective at all. The "good" examples are full of nuance and depth; the "bad" examples have no nuance and have zero dimensions. A proper comparison would have been with "bad" examples that have the potential to add nuance and depth in their conflict, but miss opportunities to do so, or do so but with the wrong character or at the wrong time. This is vastly more common among newer writers than "oops, I crashed my main character on a desert island, now what do I do?" Thus, it would provide a learning experience rather than "just don't do the obviously bad thing that you know is bad."
For me romantic drama in adventure fantasy is bad conflict - they're going to die if they don't prepare for second encounter with the monster, why the hell they are now jealous and petty over random bystander? Romantic subplots like to overtake main plot... Please just write romance instead - at least I would know to not even start reading... (sorry, romance fans... I just feel scammed)
Please do a video about writers block.I've long rejected many of the formula/structural processes in annoyance of cookie cut stories. Watching your videos has helped me past that prejudice.
this almost mathematical approach to story building, and well structured course is exactly what I was looking for! All your videos so far have been so pleasant to follow along, thank you for making them :)
Shameless plug that I totally respect at the end. Personally, I subscribed because of it. Idk if I'll check that book out, but if you have any low medieval setting fantasy novels, let me know and I'll add them to the reading list.
What an awesome CONFLICT EQUATION! 2 pieces of feedback to consider: 1) "Attachment to Outcome" maybe should relate more directly to the protagonist, like "attachment to goal" or something, and 2) "Cost of failure" maybe can more explicitly describe the stakes for the protag somehow. (Or maybe I'm just missing that the whole equation is meant to be from the perspective of the protag.) Love that you've come up with this. Looking forward to Jed Herne's laws on conflict like Sanderson's on magic =)
LOVE these videos!! some i need to bookmark as i reach that point in my journey. the only crit ill say is, to me you dont need to qualify every vid by listing your achievements. (well done btw!) but it slows down the video somewhat. is it because you are getting negative comments? please ignore those people if so. great vids, imo you dont have to qualify or justify anything
Hi Jed, enjoying your vids! Do you take topic requests? I’d be so keen to hear your thoughts on setting & atmosphere. So much writing advice about atmospheric setting only speaks to creepiness or mystery. (Everyone talks about the creepy forest or the moody sea.) But how do you create settings which can be other things too (maybe protective, unpredictable, industrious, grand, cosy, or glamorous)? Examples which come to mind of setting done well: Piranesi by Suzannah Clarke, where the house is kind of protective & tender but keeps you naive; Uprooted by Naomi Novik, who does the creepy forest thing pretty decently; The Martian by Andy Weir, in which Mars goes from being the place you’ve dreamed of reaching to the place you need to escape. Anyways, thought it would be worth an ask even tho you probably have a list of videos lined up! Always enjoy your style - you’re thorough, not patronising, and also enthusiastic, which is infectious! - so keep up the solid work. And hi from NZ
All of my conflicts are immediately 10/10 because I can skip the multiplication and division and go all-in on cool factor XD. Seriously though, as a nerd, love this conflict equation. It makes perfect sense.
Let's see, #1 and 2 I am good with. For #3, my current story makes it complicated to directly challenge one of the MCs. His biggest weakness would in fact be shown by not challenging him, but by putting others in danger when he can not intervene. Direct conflict tends to be more about establishing his limits. Thus the other two MCs become both points to attack his weakness, while being pillars of strength and support when it comes to keeping his trauma driven anger issues in check. That trauma has to do with not having been able to prevent the deaths of others, and mixed with guilt about the unnecessary deaths caused by his reactions. So challenged still, just not directly. Okay, Good to have worked that out. #4 I have good instincts with, which is partly because I tend to have relatively few direct conflicts compared to other challenges. Also, the story's progression puts them in a steadily different position, so local challenges and basic trade negotions gradually evolve to dealing with a mix of direct dangers and playing higher-stakes politics involving multiple countries. I've copied that list though, that's going to be useful for another story I have brewing. Which brings us to your number five. I could make my modulation better, but my style tends to lean on building emotional attachment and investment while having a known conflict be a challenge that the characters are building toward. There will still be the occasional surpise that is not related to their main focus, but the tension tends to be about seeing character growth and personal relationships develop alongside working for a long term goal. So slow build ups, occasional intense moments, some of which are "oh=[blank]" moments where something catches them off guard. I could probably use to ramp up the tension a bit more often, just not as intensely as in the other scenes. Thank you for putting these videos out. Writing out my thoughts in response to them really helps me be more introspective about my ongoing work.
I don't think you need to worry at all about your #3. How you've explained it; that could totally be viable in the right vision. While it may not seem direct, that's simply because it's an abstract tension that isn't easily described. Remember, write that you ARE that character, and that'll give you the greatest leverage into their emotional jorurny - third or first POV. It doesn't matter. You're making get progress; keep up the great work.
@Aurora-nt3yk thank you. :) I'm over 400k words into a web serial, and I have improved, but there is always room to be better. My first volume especially is under continual revision. A lot of that is from some editing assistance I am getting, but the better I know my own process and sub goals, the more I can do with editing suggestions. I had one of my shorter chairs nearly double in size when I revised it because I added details that it had always wanted but I hadn't yet been able to provide.
This thematic is really interesting. I currently rewatch/ reread the ligtnovel / anime Re zero. The protagonist is probably the most flawed protagonist in ever saw in a story. He is trow non stop in situations way over his head. And the only thing he has go for eat he can time travel back when he dies. Most interesting to overcome the circumstances his in he has to grow as a person. He is just to weak to brute forces he’s ways. I think this extreme character would be great for character studies to understand character driven conflict
If you played Fate Core TRPG, then you have a good base to avoid these mistakes. Great tool to construct good conflicts entwined with character arcs through game.
Can you tell me the difference between “attachment to outcome” and “cost of failure” because they seem pretty intertwined. Also put “cost of failure” above the fraction line for the sake of consistency its hurting me Also I have now a funny idea of a protag thats hated but because of that the reader really wants them to fail so their attachment to the outcome varies inversely. The only problem with this story is keeping the reader entertained through minor low-stakes conflicts with a character they dislike.
Conflict Equation thoughts: You should also take into account for a deus ex machina. Not always, but I feel like that often ruins the scene. Also build-up. The length of time that the conflict has been on the horizon and known to both the characters and the reader can add a lot to the tension
I've always wondered the best ways to utilize conflict in low stakes situations. One of my children's fantasy stories has the protagonist competing in magical contests, but they're more like talent shows to craft something rather than fast-paced Pokemon-style battles, so coming up with obstacles to overcome isn't as straightforward as other conflicts.
I think that the 3 chapters of a guy dueling could work quite well. 1st ch. a guy is challenged & wins, but he has never been in a fight before. His first killing marks him & he understands what his uncle has been telling him for years--sparring is one thing, killing is another. The relative of victim #1 finds out about the first duel & goes hunting for our MC. He wins again, but this time, it was easier (he didn't vomit after seeing a corpse lying at his feet). Victim #2 was a well-known sell-sword, so a 3d challenger comes forward, just wanting to see who it was that dispatched #2. At the death of victim #3, the MC experiences a vital rush. & he wants more of that. Addiction is like that. You could chart the MC's slide into homicidal ecstasy at each new duel, until he is the one going out looking for new victims. Of course, this would not be high fantasy, but even that might work if the culture of the people involved see might as right. Soon the MC has assumed a leadership role, perhaps. Something to think about.Thanks for the idea. I'll add it to my list of possible stories, which is currently about 30. But that's just in the Fantasy camp. Write on!
Open Query: I'm working on a action fantasy novel in which the MC is a non-combatant and plays more of a support role, think Hunger Games , but from Haymitch's Perspective(not the best example ). Anyone have any advice on how I can make the character development engaging.
Actually, Gollum destroys the ring, at least that what it shows in the movie. I haven't read the story in sooooo long. I liked that part of the movie, because it shows that since Bilbo didn't kill Gollum, the ring was able to be destroyed. It really adds strength when Gandalf and Frodo are talking with each other in Moria.
I like this quote from The Incredibles 1 Animated Movie where Syndrome says: "If everybody's super - Nobody is." The quote is nice because it is true in so many scenarios. For example, when dealing with repetitiveness or striving to have all conflicts being a 10/10 on difficulty to solve. If they are all a 10/10, there will not be any conflicts that stick out as being incredible (pun intended) compared to the others, and this will naturally make everything seem less impressive. This is also true in our day-to-day life, but that is another discussion.
Your videos are always well thought out. I am considering using a pen name when I finally write the stories I have in mind. Could you make a video about choosing pen names, specific to fantasy writing?
Something I found interesting on the Conflict Engagement Equation. This factor that higher Chance of Success decreases engagement may lead to a bad idea. If 50% Chance of Success is less engaging than 20% Chance of Success, and 5% Chance of Success is more engaging than 20%, therefore, the ultimate value is 0%. If I make things impossible for my protagonist, that is maximum engagement. Wrong! Mathematically you cannot divide by 0. In story-telling, you cannot make things absolutely impossible for increased engagement either. Why? Either you will despair your reader from hoping it can be accomplished, or they will fill in the blanks that some "divine intervention" will step in to save the day, which completely diminishes all tension entirely (Deus Ex Machina). Instead of having something be absolutely impossible, have it be just maybe, hopefully within grasp. Rather than have an unkillable alien chasing down the protagonist, have an alien that can bleed chasing down the protagonist. This will make the difficult situation for your protagonist possible, but it will still require them to be resourceful to accomplish it. And it will feel well-earned when the protagonist figures it out rather than just "A wizard did it."
I have a question about the engagement equation. If it's a book where you know the ending, for example, in a prequel, would you still divide the equation by the chance of success like normal?
Another major mistake is killing the tension in a conflict. For example, if you use bathos or the reason for tension is stupid, then get back to work 'cause that story is done for
I love your videos and I’m wondering how exactly can I contact you? Like, does it cost or do you have an online class? Because I got this story I’ve been building for a few years now and I haven’t written any of it down yet but I’ve like to know more about writing books! I want to get into yet! Thank you for this video!
I might be unusual but I find myself often having trouble engaging with a story if the I don't trust that the author can pay off the dramatic checks they are writing. If you send an untrained orphan boy against the whole imperial army with nothing but a wooden sword that's less engaging for me not more. I'm ironically starting to discover I like at least some grimmdark because I'm more likely to feel like I can trust the author to resolve situations in a plausible manner. In the above example, maybe it's the backstory of a crippled thief haha.
ANSWER THIS : Would it really interest you in a story that starts off with the main character already losing memory of who he is? Soon he ventures into the world without any context, and finds himself in trouble until finally he is pointed towards his supposed home. There he is badly treated, as a servant of the house. He can't hold a sword anymore, for reasons unknown as his body keeps rejecting the feel of swinging or holding a longsword. Would it interest you to know how he gains his memory back, who he really is or why he seems like to be destined to be a swordless knight? This is very detrimental to basic requirements of becoming a knight. What do you think??
"starts off with the main character already losing memory of who he is? " A classic. Probably overdone by now, so it all depends on the execution. I probably wouldn't care much about who the character is, so give some clues to the greater mystery right at the start. "ventures into the world without any context" A common trick for passing on exposition to the reader: the POV character doesn't know enough, so your "as you know" becomes "as you _should_ know". Be careful not to overuse this privilege, as even justified exposition can become boring. Perhaps interweave it with things the MC has to do, or strange events. Think about detective mysteries and how they successfully deal with these situations. As for whether I would continue reading after he gets home, the answer is obviously "it depends". It would depend on how much I care about the MC (not necessarily about him or his problem, but how much I care about what happens to him/around him). Or the setting, or the solution to the mystery. Your plot is pretty well explored, so you might be better off exploring other themes alongside it. I rarely put a novel down while I'm reading it, but it has happened, mostly with young adult novels: you can't please everyone.
Main question of The Name of the Wind: Will Kvothe manage to pay tuition? Main question of The Wise Man's Fear: Seriously though, will Kvothe manage to pay tuition?!
I wish there was more content on fantasy romance, especially that of the now cliché self insert vampire/warewolf crap, And to the hells having to use a pen name just because if my name! Same for female high fantasy authors.
Engagement = (Connection x Attachment) x Success [as a decimal or fraction] x Failure + Cool. Success should be multiplied by a decimal or fraction because people look at is as a probability which is always 1 in #. As a denominator, you have to put a whole number value which work in opposite of normal thinking. low success is high number with no real explanation of what does a 10 value mean versus 1000, versus a 1/10 [or .1] and 1/1000 [or .001] which is more quickly understood. Another interesting way might be: (1 is low and 100 is high) Engagement = ((Connection + Attachment) / (Failure + Cost)) x Cool Engagement = ((75 + 50 ) / ( 20 + 90 )) x 40 = 45.45... Or Engagement = (Connection + Attachment + Cool) / (Failure + Cost) The best outcome with balance numbers would be 1.5. Higher result means low stakes, and lower result means higher stakes. But, it is still how numbers are interpreted, and all numbers can be different for different peoples preferences. Coolness is also a wildcard number no matter the results.
As a reader, stories where the protagonist supposedly has flaws but they are never confronted confuse me. Why even include them in the first place if they won't be a central point?
Yeah...i wonder too...
Why not make his flaw/flaws a saving grace in a crucial moment?
...
Like in the movie signs but better executed...
Because they've been told that their protagonist needs to have flaws, but were never made to understand what role those flaws are supposed to have in driving the plot.
^This is the correct answer. It's from hearing "your character must have flaws", but not understanding why.
@@Frostbite08 I used to be active in the writing community on DeviantArt, and the number of aspiring writers who thought they needed some kind of laundry list of traits for their characters, almost none of which had anything to do with the story, was actually kind of tragic.
And they need to be somehow quirky on top of that, so they all end up as procrastinators with heterochromia or some kind of similarly useless combination.
@@the-chillian nailed it. Imo the greatest purpose of story is to help the reader be a better person (vague I know). I think there can be flaws unrelated to the main theme if they help characters interact, explore the world, or move the plot along, but the MCs main flaw should play an important role in how they grow as a person (so we can learn how to grow too).
pinpoint your character's weakness and write ten different ways that weakness can be exploited
that's genius
As a young writer, I have been having a field day binging all of your videos! These are all so helpful, and I am very grateful that I found them. Just wanted to give you some engagement, so that others can see your content too :)
I'm at number three and this has already helped me more than the last three channels I've been to. I'm a writer working on becoming a first time author, and thank you for helping light my path by showing yours.
Best wishes on your writing journey!
Yo! On the same boat as yours, how's your project going upto now
Wish you luck, hope you become successful in the future!
You said you were still refining your equation, so here's some feedback:
1) Aside from cost of failure, potential reward of success is also important. Just fighting for the status quo isnt always that satisfying. If your characters have a lot to gain, especially in regards to personal conflict, that adds a lot. So perhaps X (cost of failure+reward of success)
2) Have you considered the aspects of in-story chance of success vs meta chance of success?
3) Have you considered the various aspects or degrees of success you can have (for example a bigger task is failed somewhat inevitably, but minor successes are achieved, or the opposite)
what do you mean by point 2?
@@rubythorns2349 Well, something may realistically have a low chance of happening, but since it's a story, the reader will know 100% the protagonist will defeat it, or survive the poison, or whatever it may be. How connected the two are often depends on the tone set up beforehand, so a Game of Thrones reader will be terrified at a battle that has the protagonists unlikely to win, and will rejoice that much more when they succeed.
@@trafalgarlaw8373 Oh gotcha. Reminds me of character "deaths" in kids shows where they are always brought back somehow because you can't just traumatize kids like that
Number 2 is a very valid point. So what if the protagonist has to defeat dozens of monsters and escape a booby-trapped labirynth under 5 minutes. We know this is impossible but... you know, plot armor exists.
@@missAlice1990 Of course, a reader can buy into that and be enthralled nonetheless, but some actual possible stakes are nice. For example, will they be able to also help their new friend escape, or will that one die?
May I recommend "rewording" that formula ==> (attachment to character) * (attachment to outcome) * (failure cost) * (failure chances) + cool factor
psychologically, division is much harder to process (especially because it highlights a _bad_ thing you want to not do). So instead, word things to focus on the behavior you _want_ to keep. Mathematically, my above suggestion is literally the same thing because (failure chances) = 1 / (success chances)
Good points, but (failure chances) = 1 - (success chance). *E.g:* 90% failure = 1 - 10% success.
Loved your explanations of modulating conflict, both 1) a calm scene being interrupted by high conflict or 2) a calm scene juxtaposing the known, high-conflict scene to come.
I would like to add one to your list ...if i am allowed?
" Leave room for mystery and guessing...
The whole "picture" should always remain shrouded even when your intended story has already ended ! "
The greatest or most engaging stories make you speculate and think make you formulate theories and leaves you guessing...those stories make you seek out others to discuss or listen to their thoughts guesses and theories...
There are good stories that never managed to become great and many times its because the author had and an inherent need to explain everything to the reader/watcher slowly removing the mystery of their world and all thats left is the feeling of wasting your time with another predictable generic story.
One of the main reasons modern "content" ( it does not deserve to be called anything else) sucks is because modern authors have this almost inherently compulsory need to unpack and pre-digest(💩) the plot for you
they really explain every single reason something happens
every single little object and why it exists
every single backstory
every bit of world building detail to you as if you are too stupid to discover it yourself...
the guessing the mystery the suprise discovery of new details and connections upon rereading/rewatching or someone pointing it out to you is what makes certain stories great works of art while other remain "content"...
its like spices and herbs in a delicious meal
nobody likes to eat bland food if they have choice.
If this was already explained i am sorry i am still catching up and didnt have time to watch some of your videos...
You might want to note in your chance of success that it is affected both by the stories odds, what the characters are challenged with; and the meta odds, how much does the reader think you as the author will let the character fail. I.e. seeing a small group die vs. ending your world.
I'm writing a story about a morally grey character that will leave the readers wondering whether they are good or bad from the beginning to middle. Towards the end, they do some things that they regret due to grief (although its not too excusable) from a loved one who passed early on.
Its a negative character arc with magical elements and parallel universes. Your videos have helped me so much during my writing process. Thank you!
Hoping we can make the magic system contest annual!
Me too! I've actually been developing a magic system recently, and something like that would be the perfect opportunity to share it.
Great idea, actually!
Great video as always, Jed 👍. Glad to see my review in a video!
In terms of conflict an interesting character or race of characters are the Orcs from WH40K. Nothing that they encounter is ever viewed by them as a negative, every challenge they encounter just makes what they are doing more fun, more exciting more Orky. The Orc POV clashes so hard with the other non insane groups in universe that a reader gets pulled along with them doing stupid and dangerous things and wanting them to succeed. I guess when belief warps reality to match your beliefs your views on conflict changes.
This particular video is _EXCELLENT!!_
The knowledge and insights are absolutely essential in my figuring out the motivations of my main characters... and not a moment too soon!
_Truly:: Thank you!_
I agree, breaking the character is fun, makes me shiver and has such great chance to sofisticate or erase character traits.
It makes the character better and relatable. and sooo much growth. It's one of the best writing advises! Thank you so much Jed!
The one question I had in my concept art, I drew, was, "What would you sacrifice to have it all?"
And it drives the entire book. It's an alternate universe thing. [not a boring complete opposite though]
My character is:
always with friends
fights for justice
is in an A++ training track in her school with pro Orders doing extra courses
"does what's right" - at least in her eyes
She's magically "weak" but excelles in bringing out a group's strength.
Lost one of her best friends (Crownprincess) in a coup as she was too weak to save her
compassionate/mercyful
In that storyline I break her in all catagories, mentally, physically, and "faith in her credo" (kinda afraid sometimes I can't bring her back from the brink myself)
She's "all alone" - without her class and mentors - her "new team" might (have to) kill her to save their universe
Justice wise, she's at fault for the disater
Her training has not prepared her for such a crazy scenario/ hits it's limit
Doing what's right means - she'll potentially loose everything. (her way home)
She gains major power a "Demi God" grants her a bit of his power
Another version of her friend she's lost, is again, in mortal danger, this time because of her
There is no mercy/compassion/trust/love for her. since she can't fully trust anyone and she's the key for the two outcomes
So, the major question for that story line is indeed "What would you sacrifice to have it all?"
She either sticks to her credo, do what's right and just. And hope the new allies are strong enough - or - side with the Antagonist that promisis her releasing her friend, getting back to her dimension and therefore ending the crisis - but he doesn't tell her "how" that works or what cost that would mean in the end. he's a psycho and maniac and does everything to break her.
So, lots of mind games, corruption, metal/phyiscal challanges from all sides herself, the justice system, her allies and the antagonist. A breakingpoint test of her credo and training.
Super fun to write.
What i like about these videos is unlike many other channels like his, what may seem daunting at first actually becomes more about organizing the random ideas I’ve had into words in paper (ie ways i wanna challenge my character specifically) than brainstorming new content. I have what I heard him refer to as I think worldbuilders block or something where i just cant seem to stop learning and planning to start doing and these make me readdress things ive struggled to put real energy into. Its clear that he has experience actually helping writers get things accomplished
Nice work on that equation. It makes sense to me.
I have really been enjoying these videos and learning so much from them.
One of my character's weakness is being uncertain and scared all tge time, in the fourth book i'll make him overcome his weaknesses by making him risk his own life for his friend there being huge risk for dying
conflict targeting the character's weakness has always been my issue, because i have always enjoyed writing descriptions of combat and such.... thoough i have recently wrote the best one i have written which was so simple: protagonist is accustomed to the brute force approach, now he's trapped in a chamber and he can't simply kick the door down he has to solve the puzzle and unlock the seal to escape
Your videos are getting better with each upload, I'm always eagerly waiting for the next one! Every time, you make me want to sit down and keep on writing. Thank you, Jed!!
I bit off more than I can chew this time.
I am trying to write a book about the life of a revolution leader after overthrowing a galactic empire.
It also touches on the fact that most post revolution countries end up under worse regimes than the ones they overthrew in the prior revolution.
On top of that, it also deals with the fact that the main character who previously liberated the galaxy reforges himself into a military dictator to quell the gangs and crime lords who filled the power vacuum after the fall of the previous empire, but ultimately fails to give the people freedom, due to his fear of freedom making a new order of criminal empires and gangs possible.
These concepts are not simple, small, and easy, to address . I have studied more history than most other high school graduates, but I still feel inadequate to satisfactorily and realistically depict these things.
Sounds like Star Wars, animal farm crossover. Seriously though , I see an interesting overarching grand view that would be difficult to write all at once. I’d recommend breaking the story down into bite size portions. Rather than trying to write all of this into every scene, build it up a little at a time with simple scenes that demonstrate the conflict through what’s happening in the character’s life. Let the reader learn about the galactic troubles a little at a time in how they affect the characters and the ones they care about. You’ll augment reader investment in the characters and the political environment won’t be as overwhelming to portray.
@@rnielsen3315 Thank you very much, that makes my job much easier.
To be constructive, I think this video is weakened by the poor counter examples you give. Obviously an argument over the dishes is bad conflict, and obviously taking the character who needs other people around to progress and putting her on a desert island alone is bad conflict. It would have been much more useful to take a conflict that works in part, explain why some parts don't work, how to improve them, and how a writer may have made this mistake in the first place. That is, what portions of the earlier story caused the writer to progress into the weak conflict in the first place? Could they be changed to progress into a stronger conflict? Counter examples need to be mistakes that writers would realistically make, not obvious mistakes hardly anyone would make.
I hope your name is indicative of the variety of response you went for. The examples are obvious bad to put things in perspective and make it as obvious as possible to viewers what he was referring to as a mistake.
@@michaeld.henryiii6703 Making them obviously bad does not put them into perspective at all. The "good" examples are full of nuance and depth; the "bad" examples have no nuance and have zero dimensions. A proper comparison would have been with "bad" examples that have the potential to add nuance and depth in their conflict, but miss opportunities to do so, or do so but with the wrong character or at the wrong time. This is vastly more common among newer writers than "oops, I crashed my main character on a desert island, now what do I do?" Thus, it would provide a learning experience rather than "just don't do the obviously bad thing that you know is bad."
For me romantic drama in adventure fantasy is bad conflict - they're going to die if they don't prepare for second encounter with the monster, why the hell they are now jealous and petty over random bystander? Romantic subplots like to overtake main plot... Please just write romance instead - at least I would know to not even start reading... (sorry, romance fans... I just feel scammed)
I kept hearing "duel" as "jewel."
Please do a video about writers block.I've long rejected many of the formula/structural processes in annoyance of cookie cut stories. Watching your videos has helped me past that prejudice.
"The Tension Scale" deserves its own video.
This is really gold! Greetings from a writer in Germany!
this almost mathematical approach to story building, and well structured course is exactly what I was looking for! All your videos so far have been so pleasant to follow along, thank you for making them :)
Shameless plug that I totally respect at the end. Personally, I subscribed because of it. Idk if I'll check that book out, but if you have any low medieval setting fantasy novels, let me know and I'll add them to the reading list.
What an awesome CONFLICT EQUATION! 2 pieces of feedback to consider: 1) "Attachment to Outcome" maybe should relate more directly to the protagonist, like "attachment to goal" or something, and 2) "Cost of failure" maybe can more explicitly describe the stakes for the protag somehow. (Or maybe I'm just missing that the whole equation is meant to be from the perspective of the protag.)
Love that you've come up with this. Looking forward to Jed Herne's laws on conflict like Sanderson's on magic =)
LOVE these videos!! some i need to bookmark as i reach that point in my journey.
the only crit ill say is, to me you dont need to qualify every vid by listing your achievements. (well done btw!) but it slows down the video somewhat.
is it because you are getting negative comments? please ignore those people if so. great vids, imo you dont have to qualify or justify anything
Jed thanks for the list of conflicts. I screenshoted it so I could have it easily accessible for when I write.
Hi Jed, enjoying your vids! Do you take topic requests? I’d be so keen to hear your thoughts on setting & atmosphere. So much writing advice about atmospheric setting only speaks to creepiness or mystery. (Everyone talks about the creepy forest or the moody sea.) But how do you create settings which can be other things too (maybe protective, unpredictable, industrious, grand, cosy, or glamorous)? Examples which come to mind of setting done well: Piranesi by Suzannah Clarke, where the house is kind of protective & tender but keeps you naive; Uprooted by Naomi Novik, who does the creepy forest thing pretty decently; The Martian by Andy Weir, in which Mars goes from being the place you’ve dreamed of reaching to the place you need to escape. Anyways, thought it would be worth an ask even tho you probably have a list of videos lined up! Always enjoy your style - you’re thorough, not patronising, and also enthusiastic, which is infectious! - so keep up the solid work. And hi from NZ
Jed herne always gives awsome advie. Hes been infulencial to my writing and I want to read anything he rights.
All of my conflicts are immediately 10/10 because I can skip the multiplication and division and go all-in on cool factor XD. Seriously though, as a nerd, love this conflict equation. It makes perfect sense.
Let's see, #1 and 2 I am good with.
For #3, my current story makes it complicated to directly challenge one of the MCs. His biggest weakness would in fact be shown by not challenging him, but by putting others in danger when he can not intervene. Direct conflict tends to be more about establishing his limits. Thus the other two MCs become both points to attack his weakness, while being pillars of strength and support when it comes to keeping his trauma driven anger issues in check. That trauma has to do with not having been able to prevent the deaths of others, and mixed with guilt about the unnecessary deaths caused by his reactions. So challenged still, just not directly. Okay, Good to have worked that out.
#4 I have good instincts with, which is partly because I tend to have relatively few direct conflicts compared to other challenges. Also, the story's progression puts them in a steadily different position, so local challenges and basic trade negotions gradually evolve to dealing with a mix of direct dangers and playing higher-stakes politics involving multiple countries. I've copied that list though, that's going to be useful for another story I have brewing.
Which brings us to your number five. I could make my modulation better, but my style tends to lean on building emotional attachment and investment while having a known conflict be a challenge that the characters are building toward. There will still be the occasional surpise that is not related to their main focus, but the tension tends to be about seeing character growth and personal relationships develop alongside working for a long term goal. So slow build ups, occasional intense moments, some of which are "oh=[blank]" moments where something catches them off guard. I could probably use to ramp up the tension a bit more often, just not as intensely as in the other scenes.
Thank you for putting these videos out. Writing out my thoughts in response to them really helps me be more introspective about my ongoing work.
I don't think you need to worry at all about your #3. How you've explained it; that could totally be viable in the right vision. While it may not seem direct, that's simply because it's an abstract tension that isn't easily described. Remember, write that you ARE that character, and that'll give you the greatest leverage into their emotional jorurny - third or first POV. It doesn't matter.
You're making get progress; keep up the great work.
@Aurora-nt3yk thank you. :)
I'm over 400k words into a web serial, and I have improved, but there is always room to be better.
My first volume especially is under continual revision. A lot of that is from some editing assistance I am getting, but the better I know my own process and sub goals, the more I can do with editing suggestions. I had one of my shorter chairs nearly double in size when I revised it because I added details that it had always wanted but I hadn't yet been able to provide.
This video is so informative. It’s so important to consider conflict types when writing character growth and for reader engagement🙏🏻
This thematic is really interesting. I currently rewatch/ reread the ligtnovel / anime Re zero.
The protagonist is probably the most flawed protagonist in ever saw in a story. He is trow non stop in situations way over his head. And the only thing he has go for eat he can time travel back when he dies.
Most interesting to overcome the circumstances his in he has to grow as a person. He is just to weak to brute forces he’s ways.
I think this extreme character would be great for character studies to understand character driven conflict
id find this much more enjoyable a refresher for writing basics if it were for all the self insert commercial sales pitches
14:24 Either you are missing brackets in there, or Cost of Failure could also be part of the upper portion of the division
If you played Fate Core TRPG, then you have a good base to avoid these mistakes. Great tool to construct good conflicts entwined with character arcs through game.
Can you tell me the difference between “attachment to outcome” and “cost of failure” because they seem pretty intertwined. Also put “cost of failure” above the fraction line for the sake of consistency its hurting me
Also I have now a funny idea of a protag thats hated but because of that the reader really wants them to fail so their attachment to the outcome varies inversely. The only problem with this story is keeping the reader entertained through minor low-stakes conflicts with a character they dislike.
Conflict Equation thoughts: You should also take into account for a deus ex machina. Not always, but I feel like that often ruins the scene. Also build-up. The length of time that the conflict has been on the horizon and known to both the characters and the reader can add a lot to the tension
I've always wondered the best ways to utilize conflict in low stakes situations. One of my children's fantasy stories has the protagonist competing in magical contests, but they're more like talent shows to craft something rather than fast-paced Pokemon-style battles, so coming up with obstacles to overcome isn't as straightforward as other conflicts.
As a former physics major, let me know when I'm supposed to find the tangent for the interest curve
I think that the 3 chapters of a guy dueling could work quite well. 1st ch. a guy is challenged & wins, but he has never been in a fight before. His first killing marks him & he understands what his uncle has been telling him for years--sparring is one thing, killing is another. The relative of victim #1 finds out about the first duel & goes hunting for our MC. He wins again, but this time, it was easier (he didn't vomit after seeing a corpse lying at his feet). Victim #2 was a well-known sell-sword, so a 3d challenger comes forward, just wanting to see who it was that dispatched #2. At the death of victim #3, the MC experiences a vital rush. & he wants more of that. Addiction is like that. You could chart the MC's slide into homicidal ecstasy at each new duel, until he is the one going out looking for new victims. Of course, this would not be high fantasy, but even that might work if the culture of the people involved see might as right. Soon the MC has assumed a leadership role, perhaps. Something to think about.Thanks for the idea. I'll add it to my list of possible stories, which is currently about 30. But that's just in the Fantasy camp. Write on!
Open Query:
I'm working on a action fantasy novel in which the MC is a non-combatant and plays more of a support role, think Hunger Games , but from Haymitch's Perspective(not the best example ). Anyone have any advice on how I can make the character development engaging.
Actually, Gollum destroys the ring, at least that what it shows in the movie. I haven't read the story in sooooo long.
I liked that part of the movie, because it shows that since Bilbo didn't kill Gollum, the ring was able to be destroyed.
It really adds strength when Gandalf and Frodo are talking with each other in Moria.
I like this quote from The Incredibles 1 Animated Movie where Syndrome says: "If everybody's super - Nobody is."
The quote is nice because it is true in so many scenarios.
For example, when dealing with repetitiveness or striving to have all conflicts being a 10/10 on difficulty to solve. If they are all a 10/10, there will not be any conflicts that stick out as being incredible (pun intended) compared to the others, and this will naturally make everything seem less impressive. This is also true in our day-to-day life, but that is another discussion.
Your videos are always well thought out. I am considering using a pen name when I finally write the stories I have in mind. Could you make a video about choosing pen names, specific to fantasy writing?
Your content is so good❤
Love your videos👍
I suggest looking at Star Wars and Warcraft please. I would argue there's plenty of examples of various sorts in those.
Something I found interesting on the Conflict Engagement Equation. This factor that higher Chance of Success decreases engagement may lead to a bad idea. If 50% Chance of Success is less engaging than 20% Chance of Success, and 5% Chance of Success is more engaging than 20%, therefore, the ultimate value is 0%. If I make things impossible for my protagonist, that is maximum engagement.
Wrong! Mathematically you cannot divide by 0. In story-telling, you cannot make things absolutely impossible for increased engagement either. Why? Either you will despair your reader from hoping it can be accomplished, or they will fill in the blanks that some "divine intervention" will step in to save the day, which completely diminishes all tension entirely (Deus Ex Machina).
Instead of having something be absolutely impossible, have it be just maybe, hopefully within grasp. Rather than have an unkillable alien chasing down the protagonist, have an alien that can bleed chasing down the protagonist. This will make the difficult situation for your protagonist possible, but it will still require them to be resourceful to accomplish it. And it will feel well-earned when the protagonist figures it out rather than just "A wizard did it."
I have a question about the engagement equation. If it's a book where you know the ending, for example, in a prequel, would you still divide the equation by the chance of success like normal?
Another major mistake is killing the tension in a conflict. For example, if you use bathos or the reason for tension is stupid, then get back to work 'cause that story is done for
I love your videos and I’m wondering how exactly can I contact you? Like, does it cost or do you have an online class? Because I got this story I’ve been building for a few years now and I haven’t written any of it down yet but I’ve like to know more about writing books! I want to get into yet! Thank you for this video!
Yeah..also wondering the same thing
Same here
When will your new dragon book come out on Amazon?
I might be unusual but I find myself often having trouble engaging with a story if the I don't trust that the author can pay off the dramatic checks they are writing. If you send an untrained orphan boy against the whole imperial army with nothing but a wooden sword that's less engaging for me not more.
I'm ironically starting to discover I like at least some grimmdark because I'm more likely to feel like I can trust the author to resolve situations in a plausible manner. In the above example, maybe it's the backstory of a crippled thief haha.
Hey jed, i've been writing my own book that i've been working on. Thanks for helping. I just wanted to check if i can put you in the aknowlegments?
4 views in 1 minute?!
Bro is popping off!
ANSWER THIS : Would it really interest you in a story that starts off with the main character already losing memory of who he is? Soon he ventures into the world without any context, and finds himself in trouble until finally he is pointed towards his supposed home. There he is badly treated, as a servant of the house. He can't hold a sword anymore, for reasons unknown as his body keeps rejecting the feel of swinging or holding a longsword. Would it interest you to know how he gains his memory back, who he really is or why he seems like to be destined to be a swordless knight? This is very detrimental to basic requirements of becoming a knight. What do you think??
"starts off with the main character already losing memory of who he is? "
A classic. Probably overdone by now, so it all depends on the execution. I probably wouldn't care much about who the character is, so give some clues to the greater mystery right at the start.
"ventures into the world without any context"
A common trick for passing on exposition to the reader: the POV character doesn't know enough, so your "as you know" becomes "as you _should_ know".
Be careful not to overuse this privilege, as even justified exposition can become boring. Perhaps interweave it with things the MC has to do, or strange events. Think about detective mysteries and how they successfully deal with these situations.
As for whether I would continue reading after he gets home, the answer is obviously "it depends".
It would depend on how much I care about the MC (not necessarily about him or his problem, but how much I care about what happens to him/around him). Or the setting, or the solution to the mystery. Your plot is pretty well explored, so you might be better off exploring other themes alongside it.
I rarely put a novel down while I'm reading it, but it has happened, mostly with young adult novels: you can't please everyone.
@@federicogiana You're right. I made some changes. I'll do my best to make readers care.
6:15 "The conflict going to force her to either grow or..."
Fall away!
"to die."
Oh.
Have you seen the magic system in the Wings of Fire series?
Do you mean animus magic? -I am a big WoF fan
@@user-yu6br7hl2o yes
"Why doesn't this work" = the only technological conflict I ever experience when I'm actually living my life in 1st person.
I have a question. Do you accept teen in your campus? I already have a story
the rule of cool.
Oh man, here goes my people pleaser island getaway novel. 😮💨
What is the one piece?
Please you need to switch Yumi and Sunlit on your bookshelf.
Main question of The Name of the Wind:
Will Kvothe manage to pay tuition?
Main question of The Wise Man's Fear:
Seriously though, will Kvothe manage to pay tuition?!
I wish there was more content on fantasy romance, especially that of the now cliché self insert vampire/warewolf crap,
And to the hells having to use a pen name just because if my name! Same for female high fantasy authors.
Struggling to complete things like outlines, and it's always disappointing when you advertise bootcamps I will never be able to afford. :(
Engagement = (Connection x Attachment) x Success [as a decimal or fraction] x Failure + Cool.
Success should be multiplied by a decimal or fraction because people look at is as a probability which is always 1 in #. As a denominator, you have to put a whole number value which work in opposite of normal thinking. low success is high number with no real explanation of what does a 10 value mean versus 1000, versus a 1/10 [or .1] and 1/1000 [or .001] which is more quickly understood.
Another interesting way might be: (1 is low and 100 is high)
Engagement = ((Connection + Attachment) / (Failure + Cost)) x Cool
Engagement = ((75 + 50 ) / ( 20 + 90 )) x 40 = 45.45...
Or
Engagement = (Connection + Attachment + Cool) / (Failure + Cost)
The best outcome with balance numbers would be 1.5. Higher result means low stakes, and lower result means higher stakes.
But, it is still how numbers are interpreted, and all numbers can be different for different peoples preferences. Coolness is also a wildcard number no matter the results.
7:16 That sounded creepy.
Not a problem; my protagonist is flawless........ uh oh.
Fraurdaur
Evil Jed origin story.
You look like a Pixar character
يعمر apple للأسف بتعم الكيان المحتل فلو سمحت متعملهمش إعلانات وتروح المؤتمرات
سوي لايك عشان يشوف الكومنت عمر
It's very useful and inspiring. many thanks!