Simon the reason you are familiar with it, was Ellen Paige starred in a film based on this story. It’s dark. Really dark. Edit: I apologize Elliot Paige.
The only reason I want to know every detail of what someone went through is because they had no choice in going through it. The least I can do is understand as completely as I can the horror they went through. There is no joy in knowing the suffering of someone but it's the least I can do in respect to what they went through. Edit: The reason I feel this way is because I was r@ped when I was 5 and at the time I didn't have the ability to tell my story...by the time I was able to have the words, I was dismissed and asked, "Are you sure you are remembering that right?" My parents believed me and I guess that's what mattered. But I honestly believe that people's stories deserved to be told in full because they had to live through it in full. They have to live with the nightmares and horrors of it. We get the choice to listen or not and I choose to listen to every last detail because they deserve to be heard.
You may never read this but if you all do they is a man named Ronald L. Sanford he was locked up at 13 years old in 1989 he was sentenced to 170 years behind bars. I'm not excusing his crime because two elderly ladies were killed but his co- defendant didn't do a day in jail & the 5 dollar's that was stolen from the ladies home his codefendant went to the Fair & spent it not Ronald. why wasn't they both punished the same? A 13 year has never walked outside of the jail gate's for over 30 years. Look at Sam the bully he got 5 years on 19 bodies!!! Millions of dollars we're spent only to get John Gotti for 10 years!??? Sammy the bull got out of prison broke the law again went back to jail he is now out doing book tours living a wonderful life & still has his millions he didn't have to give up anything all behind John Gotti you make a deal with a devil? They say justice is blind. NO it's not nor will it ever be!!!!!
When I was a kid, a crappy choker necklace left stains and a rash on my neck that looked like ligature marks. A lady saw me in a diner. She waited for me and my parents to leave, took down our license plate and immediately called the cops. My parents raved and screamed about the nosiness of her for twenty years. To this day, they still don’t understand how important it is to be nosy when you see a child that might be in danger.
Agreed. I don't mind nosy, well meaning neighbors and teachers. My sister and I did taekwondo when we were kids and we had bruises constantly. The amount of times a teacher called the police over our bruises because he/she thought our parents were beating us. It's like no no no you don't understand we're black belts, we fight to get exercise. Eventually the cops understood that my parents weren't beating us. But not everybody has my parents some people have parents that will actually beat them.
My mind immediately went to a story that happened about a year ago. A Florida waitress noticed something was wrong with a boy sitting with his family. He was skinny, bruised and the only one without a meal. She flashed him a sign, saying something like do you need help. He nodded. She called the police and it was learned that the boy was being beaten and starved by his family.
@@MrJjones543 There's a lot more details I forgot. Like how the kid was in the only chair that allowed him to see the sign without his parents also seeing the sign. The waitress wasn't supposed to be there that day. And the family happened to be there during a slow period on a very busy day. Allowing the waitress the time to take notice of the situation. Not to mention this was pandemic times so the kid was probably in school remotely so who knows when that kid was going to be seen up close and physically by another caring adult.
In the wake of Sylvia's death, the state passed a law making it a criminal offense to fail to report any knowledge or evidence of child neglect or abuse to the authorities.
Jesus Christ! GOOD! GOOD! I can't use expletives here or my comment will be rejected, and in this case, it's actually inappropriate NOT to use expletives. God damn. In the wake of Sylvia's death. Jesus. The past was the ####### worst.
Another good thing is that the woman responsible ended up dying of an awful disease. She deserves worse in my opinion. They all do. I was relooking at the Junko Furuta case and found this one. At least the Japanese one gave longer sentences although one of them committed another murder after release. The filth in this case got silly sentences for such a heinous crime. Death penalty is too easy for these people. Leave them in a cage to starve. I'm sure someone would happily torment people like that. If I was a judge, I would be pissed to give these filth easy lesser sentences. Zero justice in this trial except the evil witch dying of cancer. That is only because of her smoking and not the justice system. Her children and the others deserve the same. So many good folks die young yet these creatures somehow live. Some people just do not deserve to live.
Yeah. It’s a misdemeanor, though, like a traffic violation. Doesn’t carry much weight. Almost all (48) states have them. “Good Samaritan” laws are hard to pass constitutional muster. At least it’s something, though.
I'm thankful for the way Sylvia was spoken about here. She deserves to at least be remembered for more than the terrible things she went through. Rest in peace Sylvia.
I think the best thing to remember her for is what she went through to protect her sister. Her sister was disabled, and she did everything possible to take all the punishment on herself. She was an incredibly brave soul surrounded by evil.
Less surrounded by evil and more surrounded by negligence; indifferent church members, neighbors, etc. If defamation by anyone is present, the originator of the defamation, in my opinion, is usually the guilty party.
Agreed, same with how they talked about Elizabeth Short’s case. These people are people, and don’t deserve to just be remembered for what happened to them, or remembered for the perpetrators of their case. They’re people.
Sylvia's story has haunted me since I learned of it years ago. I still cry for her. I read that Sylvia's older sister did show up at the home where they were and "VW" refused to allow her to see her sisters. All I can say, plead in fact; as a child that was abused and survived because my teacher DID say something... please, speak up when you see something. So many people failed Sylvia. She deserved so much better than this world gave her. Don't be someone who fails a child in your life. Rest in Peace Sylvia. 🙏🏽 🕊
Granted I had a mentally bad day, but I had a panic attack for Sylvia during "the worst of it" part. I can't imagine going through that. I can't imagine some I love going through that. I can't even imagine someone I hate going through that. My heart is just shattered that this could even happen. VW isn't a human being. She is a monster in human skin
I was a camp counselor when I was a teenager - and there was a kid who came back one summer and was very different, just really withdrawn and unhappy. I was unsure about doing anything (I was 15 or 16?) but I made a call to Child Protection Services when I overheard her talking about not wanting to go home. I only found out years later, through social media of all things, that she had been living with some really abusive family members at the time and was severely neglected - CPS was able to investigate and return her to her other parent’s custody. All this to say: Please, please call when you think a child maybe needs help. It’s not always obvious, and it’s really uncomfortable, but it can save their life.
I’m a camp counselor myself and have always been told that I was an obligatory reporter If I had any reason to suspect anything, I was legally obligated to report it Fortunately, I have not been in a situation with a camper facing abuse, but I take that responsibility very seriously
@@normalhuman9878 Same - I was a mandated reporter if a child told me that they were being abused or neglected. It was just a case that really stayed with me, because she didn’t tell me that - I just had a feeling, and I made a judgement call and hoped I wasn’t overreacting.
This is the most disturbing episode I have heard. The fact so many random children in the village were happy to join in is what made it so much more disturbing to me than other episodes.
The respect for the victims shown by the author and Simon is what keeps me coming back to this channel. Not giving name to the perpetrator is the correct choice.
@@JohnMoran there are channels where I might just agree with such an assertion, but I would argue this isn't one of them. They skip over the intricate details while still telling the overall story. As Simon often says, CSI, not Saw. And believe me, if you're looking for Saw style stuff, there are channels for it. Hell, even the Wikipedia pages are often more graphic. But I'd like to think that isn't truly the point of telling these stories, not to exploit the suffering of the victims, but rather to highlight the justice (or lack there of) that society as a whole doles out, while also hopefully maintaining as much of the dignity of the victims as possible. And honestly, it's even better when the names are removed like this.
@Ryan C well ultimately we are all here for crime. If it's not "gore porn" it's essentially emotional porn. This one is the latter and just sad though. But with killers like Bundy etc, we all know we wanna hear the gruesome details. That's the whole allure
Here in New Zealand there was an Aussie a few years ago who killed 51 people, men, women, children. All the news media here chose not to name him, so he couldn't get the fame and glory he wanted like the Norwegian. Obviously his name is out there is you want to know it but for a while there I was super proud of these outlets not giving him the oxygen of publicity that he wanted.
Also this is what my friend had to say about not naming Gertrude Baniszewski "If you're gonna say something. You can't pull any punches. You got to go at it from all sides no matter how Gruesome. You got to mention the killers. You have to presume or list the factors that could have potentially sent them down that path, their mindsets and the environment they were in to better understand how to prevent such things from occurring."
There is a part of Stephen King's novel, "IT", which has always absolutely horrified me, and it wasn't the clown. It was how perfectly he described this small town in the 1950s where all these terrible abuses happened to people, especially kids, and no one ever talked about it. All the adults would look away. They would pretend nothing was happening. That was the real horror, and I have no doubt that communities like that existed and still exist. If just one person chooses not to look away, the horror can stop.
That's how it was in my hometown. I moved away at 21 in 2001 and found out years later the ENTIRE town knew we were abused and our mother was "crazy" or "nuts" (their words. She actually has borderline personality disorder), but no one said a word. Not a single teacher, coach, friends parent, staff.. no one. It was "family business" and you "can't tell a parent how to raise their kids". It's still that way in rural Oklahoma to this day.
As a 20something who never wants to have kids this fucking destroyed me... Just the entire thing, the cruelty, the injustice, the fucking horrors that people are somehow capable of... I don't know how to deal with this right now...
@@Cordt4Callum I know. You need to play some soft, peaceful music, to help your mind reset from this horror. Try Peder B. Helland, he’s brilliant. Hope you have a good day💖✌🏽.
First time crying at a true crime documentary, this one really hit home, not only how much Sylvia suffered but especially how strong and courageous she was despite all the pain, fear and torment. One of the greatest examples of bravery I have ever heard. Rest in peace Sylvia
I love that at the beginning of the video Simon goes to find out who wrote the episode, I love the credit that the writers get in the video and not just in the description
I think the reason this one got to me a bit(I'm pretty dead inside to the horrors of the world for a few reasons, I wouldn't count it as a good thing though) was Simon's insistence to speak up. If I had been taken seriously when I was a kid, then perhaps I wouldn't be still trying to put back together the mental pieces twenty years later. From an abuse survivor: Thank you Simon for the beautiful amount of empathy you show towards the victims in every video, even after publishing so many.
Simon, thank you for saying you should call the police if you hear screaming for help. I screamed for help when my husband had a heart attack in our front yard and I was lucky enough that my neighbor heard me and came running when I was on with 911. Always call for help. Always help if you can.
“Turning the other cheek” is what you do when someone harms you. You cannot “turn the other cheek” unless you are attacked. The community turned a blind eye.
I knew as soon as I saw the title that Simon would NOT be his normal, ranting, funny self. Thank you for keeping V.W.'s name out of Sylvia's story. This is disturbing on so many levels. Poor, poor Sylvia. Take care of yourself Simon. ♥️
Havent even started it yet but when I read the title I said out loud to myself "oh no, you're not gonna like this one simon", but I will say I do very much respect the heck outta the compassionate and sensation-less way the writers write about these darkest cases
@@GrievousReborn everyone deals with horrific things differently. Sometimes you have to find a reason to lighten things up to be able to deal with it. He's never disrespectful to the victims, and that's all that matters.
I'm not usually one to get emotionally invested about stories like this, but this absolutely broke me. As horrific and fucked up as this story is, let's remember, as Simon said, that Sylvia's refusal to get her sister involved with her situation was one of the greatest acts of bravery and love anyone has ever done. Let's glorify Sylvia's courage and strength and let the perpetrators' names fade into the obscurity of time. Fuck them and any legacy they may have.
It's always easier to glorify someone's sacrifice after everyone ignored the truth while the cruelties were happening! Yes, she was brave, but what if she had gotten a weapon and killed the abuser? Would she be any less brave? What if a neighbor stopped the abuse by not tolerating BS from the abusers? Would she be any less brave? All of this to say, that her life was sacrificed by others. She wasn't a saint, she was a victim and everyone would do well to remember that! The indifference of all those around her caused her to sacrifice her life.
@@jaimyjerchig5240 guns don't magically solve all problems, and they are not the solution. And I say this as a gun owner and abuse survivor--had I tried to use a gun on my abusers, it would have been turned on me instead.
None of the children served very long, and I've always had mixed feelings about that. The one who testified for the state changed her name and became a teacher. The three older boys who were convicted served about two years each; one became a minister. None of the other children were charged, including a neighborhood boy who admitted to 40+ episodes of violence against Sylvia. So many lives ruined by one evil woman, and there seems to have been no justice at all once there was parole for "good behavior" and being a "good Christian."
Where was the bit about her being a good Christian? I'm not saying you're wrong but I'm really not able to pinpoint where religion plays any role into her release.
How did she get to be a teacher?! I’m sorry, I’m unable to comprehend how after abusing a child, even as a child, they could gain the ability to teach children.
WHAT!!!??? I can't believe that sh*t! I think that is what hurts most about this story. That all these people did not get to die in agony like Sylvia. There's no justice in this!
I'm somewhat desensitised to true crime in general but this story broke me. This poor girl and her sister went through absolute hell. It's such a heartbreaking story.
If you haven’t heard of it before you should check out the Eunice Spry story. She’s known as “Britain’s most sadistic mom.” She horrifically abused her foster children Victoria & Christopher. It’s a story that will stick with you. It’s mind-blowing. Both kids went on to write books as adults that will shock you. There are a few videos about it and interviews with Victoria & Chris and after I heard about it, I read both books. It’s so shocking! Both kids seemed to be doing so well as adults but I just learned Victoria took her own life in 2020. Now I’m sad all over again.
Same here this is way too similar to shit I've been through. This is one of the few that has been truly hard for me to listen to. Damn nobody deserves shit like that to happen to them.
As someone who knew about this case the second I saw the name in the title, I wanted to see what this channels take on it would be, but I also knew that this would be one of those cases that will legitimately stay with viewers for years and years. I think of Pedro Lopez sometimes and while it can be argued which case is 'worse' by people who might care about ranking this sort of thing, anytime I think of a heartbreaking case, this is the one that comes to mind first, even before Pedro Lopez. So I know this one in particular will stay with Simon, just as it has with me and likely will for a lot of viewers. This is also the quietest and most subdued I have ever seen Simon in a video and I think that really speaks to the subject matter. It really is one of those cases that once you learn about it, you don't really forget it, so I will join those urging Simon to take care of himself, to go home and spend time with his family, and to care for himself first and foremost above this show.
I completely agree. I am a Kenyan woman who thought herself immune to emotional attachment to stories, but this one was bad. It has stuck with me, filled me with anger and hatred. I think it's the injustice of it all and the helplessness of just hearing what happened. It has been weeks and I cant get this story off my mind
This one is infamous for SO many people seeing, knowing, and being involved in the abuse... Or even seeing her in school or church and ignoring signs because of the customs of the time to mind ones business. The sheer number of people who failed Sylvia and the level of evil thrust upon her makes it stay in our thoughts. Let it be a lesson that if you ever see something, even a sign... say something. Better to be wrong and a.child be safe than to ignore it and have a terrible outcome. Fly with angels, Sylvia!
@@kimberini6465it wasn't a custom of the tine. To this day small towns heavy in churches will still allow kids and spouses to be abused severely and not say a word because it's "family business "
When I was in law school they made us watch the movie that was made about Sylvia as a first assignment for a class on juvenile protection services. I guess the theory was that if you could make it through the movie you could continue with the class, but if you couldn’t you knew that you were in the wrong place and you wouldn’t be able to handle it in real life. I’ve never seen so many people walk out of a class before in my life. It’s a really hard watch. This story has always stuck with me
Do you remember the title? Or any actors so I can find it? I saw it but with the level of violence and cruelty I didn't realize it was based on true story.
As a fellow lawyer we had similar "exercises" about absolutely horrific cases of domestic violence and political processes that occured in fifties. Those classes hit me the hardest and not just because one of my granddads was actually imprisoned for his political views, it was the sheer brutality that people were able to commit in said instances. I had to walk away from one of those classes. I almost gave up on law becouse i couldn´t handle it. The thing is, my teacher actually came to me after I left the class and said to me something that stuck with me. She said that those cases are not so much about the law as they are about compasion, personal integrity and innability to do nothing in face of injustice or any other wrongdoing. At that moment I knew what kind of lawyer I wanted to be. I actually made it my ritual to write her words in my calender just to remember why I´m doing what I do.
I first found out about Sylvia about 12 years ago. I was around 13 at the time. I've never forgotten her since then. I saw the film "An American Crime" with Elliot (then "Ellen") Page portraying Sylvia, (Page's performance was excellent but the film was far too sympathetic towards VW and I'm not a fan of it for that reason), and I wanted to find out everything about her. Her story had a massive impact on me. I don't know if this is the right thing to say, but I was going through a pretty bad time, and she inspired me. (I won't go into detail but it was nothing even close to her suffering) Her story genuinely made me want to be a better person. I thought that if she could suffer through what she did, then I could suffer through what I was. It helped me understand what life was supposed to be about. She's a person that must be remembered. (I'd obviously much prefer that no-one had heard of her, and she lived the happy life that she deserved, I'm not a monster.) However, she is the best of us. Truly. Her self-sacrifice, courage and strength is very rare and something we need more of. I'm not a religious man but if anyone deserves to be in heaven, it is her. There used to be a memorial website for her, which I would have encouraged everyone to visit, I tried to find it there to share the link but it seems to be gone. When I found it before I thought it was lovely. It had a place to write a note about her story and how it impacted you. It was lovely to see that even people today still remembered her. It also had the complete court transcript to read, which was harrowing. There is the website for the Sylvia Likens Child Advocacy Centre, which was renamed to honour her in 2016, which I guess brings us to the only silver lining of this story. The media exposure of her story basically kick started child's rights reform in the US. From what I've read, it all leads back to her. Social services, child advocacy groups, school care, etc. If you've read this far, thank you, and don't forgot Simon's message. If you suspect something is happening, it's better to say something and be wrong than stay silent and regret it forever.
You may be interested in reading some of Viktor Frankl’s works. Feel free to skip if you already know this, but he was a psychiatrist who wrote about his experiences in and insights from the concentration camps he survived during the Holocaust. The main book I’m thinking of is called Man’s Search for Meaning. It describes his philosophy on suffering, among other things. I haven’t made it all the way through the book (it is, of course, a difficult read) but as far as I understand it, he says man’s search for meaning must be fulfilled by one’s deliberate path through life. We make our own meaning, and how we choose to react to our own and others’ suffering has a lot to do with who we are and how fulfilled we feel. The way you wrote about Sylvia’s story showing you what life should be about just reminded me of Frankl’s teachings. He also founded Logotherapy, which deals with many of the same issues of life, meaning, courage, and persistence in the face of hardship.
Unfortunately I think V.W. will replace Pedro Lopez in Simon's mind. I'm familiar with this horrific case, and it's still one of the most brutal I've heard.
I had the same reaction. The first time I read about Sylvia's murder it haunted me for a very long time. I had to mentally brace myself before watching. I can't imagine how Simon feels, doing a cold read of her story. I don't think I could have done it.
Just to reiterate the moral of this horrific tale - my neighbours used to row a lot but one night the screaming got so bad I suggested we call the police. My mum has the same attitude of the neighbours in Sylvia’s case - that is was none of our business and to just ignore it. Luckily, this was only last year so I was an adult and I’ve never been one to listen to my mother, so I called the police myself and it was the best decision I’ve ever made in my entire life. It turns out the “row” had become extremely violent with the husband beating his wife half to death and threatening to kill her 5 year old son! I dread to think what may have happened if I’d listened to my mum, but I know I probably couldn’t have lived with myself! ALWAYS get help if you hear your neighbours screaming - at worst, it’s nothing and you’ve caused your neighbours a brief bit of embarrassment - at best, you’ve saved a life!
I remember when I was a kid, my little sister had her friends over and they had a piñata in the back yard. One of the girls squealed "Don't hit me with the stick!" while they were hitting the piñata, and about 10 minutes later there was a pair of cops at the front door because one of the neighbors had called 911. A bit awkward at the time, but I appreciated that the neighbors would call.
I gotta say I don't really appreciate that they would just call. Look over the fence and assess the situation real quick if your really "call the cops" concerned otherwise you're wasting the cops time the tax payer money and (the way some cops react these days to minimal threat) potentially lives.
@@Fortune-gx9bn It was pretty late at night (the girls were having a sleepover) so, if they did look over the fence, they probably couldn't see anything.
@@Fortune-gx9bn imagine calling the cops for a stupid reason like this and when they get there they "accidentally" shoot someone and it's your fault for calling them
@@somehaloguy9372 yeah this is one of the few valid reasons I can think of to be careful with calling the police especially in america. and especially if they're not white. and it's incredibly messed up that we even have to take that in mind before calling for help from the people who are supposed to help..
This was one of the most horrendous cases I read about in my forensic pathology class. It was sickening and so sad what this girl went through. My professor even warned us beforehand, yet several people in my class showed how little compassion for victims they had. They were given lower grades for their review of this case.
As soon as I saw the title I remembered what happened to Sylvia. It's cases like hers that make me truly hope in heaven because she truly deserved a better place after suffering such horrific circumstances.
I read about her years ago, and just like Junko Furuta's, I would never forget this case. There is true evil in this world, and it walks and talks and breathes just like us.
There is a book Child Called It is about a child who was abused by a mother and her children, very similar to this, but that child survived and was rescued.
As important as it is for things like this to be chronicled, I feel so bad for Simon. Difficult as this is to watch, I can't imagine Simon's pain reading it, Angus' pain researching it, or Jen's pain editing it. Thank you for your strength and fortitude in continuing to educate everyone you can.
I live in Illinois and this story sent me on a pilgrimage of sorts years ago. I was there a year or so before they finally tore the house down. It was crazy to see just how close the basement windows were to the next house. I visited the house and the memorial at the park down the street. Wasn’t the best neighborhood when I was there so it’s probably even worse now. It took me two trips to find her grave though because my dumbass went in the winter time and her grave was covered in snow the first trip.
Thank you so much for not giving Sylvia's tormenters any names. I couldn't watch this all the way through, but I am very thankful for the respect shown to poor Sylvia.
When I 1st moved into a new house, my middle kid was screaming and crying because her older sister wouldn't let her help make a PB & j sandwich. (She was 5 at the time) my new neighbor heard my kid screaming and came right over & knocked on the door. She asked if my kid was alright & did not take my word for it that she was. She insisted on seeing and talking to my screaming kid, and asked her why she was freaking out, and ofc my kid said " my sister wouldn't let me spread the peanut butter". My neighbor apologized but also said she had to check when she heard the screams and would continue to do so. We weren't mad, totally understood her reasons, and we also had a chat to our kids explaining why you can't just scream like that over little things because it scares people into thinking something horrible happened. (My middle kid has a very high pitched, blood curdling scream when she wants to lol). But I respect that neighbor because so many people just assume it's nothing when it's really something. VW is a vile person. This is one of the worst cases I've ever heard. Simon, do take care of yourself. 💜
No that’s ridiculous , people should mind there business unless there’s obvious signs of abuse..don’t just go around telling people how to raise their own kids..because a kid is being a kid
@@aaronx8006 I totally agree with you tbh, but in this case I understood, my middle kids scream sounds like she is being murdered. Luckily she's 19 now and doesn't do that anymore, but seriously, if you heard a scream like she did you'd check too 😂 i can't even describe it to you. Normal kid cries or screams, mind your business, blood curdling screams, very high pitched like a coach's whistle only higher, plus crying etc, idk how to describe it properly here lol. 🙂
“They heard, they saw, they simply did nothing. It wasn’t their business.” This line hit me really hard. I was severely abused as a child (nowhere even near what Sylvia endured, but still awful) and people DID see. People DID hear. But it “wasn’t their business” so they did nothing. It’s absolutely sickening how often this happens. IF YOU SEE SOMETHING AND IT’S NOT RIGHT, DO SOMETHING. Otherwise the blood is on your hands too.
My aunt used to be a reporter, and she did a series on the lives of children in the foster/state care system. She quit her job right after that because she told me she would hear at least one case every WEEK that was as bad or worse than Sylvia Likens' story. Working special services at a school, I have kids who went through things very much like this and it seems like all we can do is try to get them to a point where they're ok being alive. What happened to her is horrifying. It wasn't a one-time thing, and it's not especially rare. We need to honor her by using what we learn from her story to help suffering children everywhere. On top of all the other reasons, it's also a good thing that the abuser's name was left out because Simon would have had a stroke trying to pronounce her last name.
Poor sweet soul, glad she is not in pain anymore. God's speed sweet angel ❤️ thank you Angus for a very respectful and touching way of telling us this awful story. Thank you Simon for your very respectful and caring reading. Stay safe you two and Jenny lest we not forget Jenny who has to hear the stories and research pictures of these heart wrenching stories Love and strength to you all.
I used to live in the same neighborhood where Sylvia was murdered. The house has been torn down to make room for a church parking lot, but the area still felt a bit off. There's also a memorial for Sylvia in the park between where the house stood and downtown.
I'm glad there is a memorial for Sylvia there. I understand what you mean about the area feeling off. My mother says she's sensitive to this sort of thing. There's a house my parents visited decades ago and my mother wouldn't go through the front door. She knew something bad had happened there. My dad asked the people and they told him what had happened and it was indeed bad like my mom had thought.
@@SolaScientia There was a terrible drunk driving accident in front of my house. The area has never felt the same since. My bedroom is the closet part of my house to where it happened, and I've seen and heard some strange things there in the years since, sometimes disturbing, sometimes neutral. Maybe I'm mental, but the thought of haunting is enough to bother me even if I don't really believe.
@@martletkay That sounds awful for sure and I think the area would really feel different as you describe. I'm not sensitive to it, but my sister and aunt have both seen a woman in a white nightgown with long dark hair in our house. I haven't seen her. My dad collects old clocks (like 1800s clocks), and if 1 is in a specific area of the dining room and is running, then sometimes the weights will be at the top of the clock even though it'll have run for a few hours and the weights should have dropped down enough to be wound back up but not enough to stop the clock like it was stopped. Very odd and it didn't matter which clock was in that location either.
This case was handled so well!!! Believe me, there was an unbelievable amount of detail left out, but I most appreciated how y'all highlighted the victims' name only. Honestly, this is a case that sticks with me, ever since the first time I discovered it... on a crime recreation show; Angus Keenan, you handled this truly evil case with the most respect and class I've ever seen. Thank you! 💜
Recently my nephew asked me if I think monsters exist. My response was "Yes, but they aren't magical or mystical or bigfoots. They're humans who choose to cause pain."
I’m glad you made a video about this poor girl. Because I already know the story I can’t bring myself to sit through this episode; I don’t have the emotional stamina to revisit it. But this is one I want people to know, because it’s so awful. That these types of people are out there. & Silvia deserves to have her story told.
Oh my god. This was sickening. I nearly had to bow out of it, but I stayed to honor Sylvia's memory by becoming another person who remembers her name. I've never heard of this case before. V.W. and D.S. are far to mild of names for the woman and her children who committed these vile acts against an innocent teen. I have far fouler names in mind for them. I won't even speculate on how people can be so cruel because I know the answer: humans suck. Thank you, Simon and Angus, for your careful, thoughtful coverage of this case. Especially Angus for excluding the name of the vile woman and her children who were the lead perpetrators of the cruelty against Sylvia.
I had to take a break when he was describing how she was brought out of the basement. I was crying too hard to pay attention and I just need to regain some composure. That sentencing has me seething and I hope V.W.'s death was the most painful thing possible.
Sylvia Likens is an American Junko Furuta and hearing her story is always heartbreaking and sobering, but a necessary conversation to have. Thank you Angus and Simon and Jen and all the other writers who give the protagonists back some of their lost dignity by telling their stories in such a considerate, non-sensational, and humanistic way
Thank you for discussing this, Simon and friends. There are so few good documentaries about this case, and I feel like this one should never EVER be forgotten. This is honestly one of the worst cases I've ever heard from all sides. The level of tragedy here is off the charts. The fact that nobody helped Sylvia or even attempted to make things right on the justice side is maddening. God rest her sweet soul. I hope her sister is able to find some peace in this life in some way.
A similar case is described in the book “A Child Called It “. The book is not without controversy. Many stated that the horrible abuse perpetrated by the family of the abused couldn’t have taken place because someone would have reported it. But this was the 1970’s when the neighbors could slap you for riding your bike on their lawn and then call your mom who would slap you again for the same reason. This horrible case did finally make its way through the California court system resulting in changes that required teachers and others to report suspected child abuse. It’s a heartbreaking read, but something I believe should be required for everyone who considers themselves an adult.
I read that book in high school and I cried for the first time in years. It was so similar to my childhood. I hope everyone that doubted it was real never has to find out first hand how it feels to undergo something like that. I grew up in the 1990s so it isn't just the previous generations.
I heard about this case before and they weren't as thoughtful about the presentation as you and Angus were. It is very, very much how many people failed Sylvia that makes it 1000 times worse. People knew and no one stepped up to get her help. I can understand why her sister was quiet - I am a survivor too, I know the mindset. That neighbors, teachers, community members did not raise their voices :'( What a sad, sad situation.
Just another reason to wipe the sl*t shaming mentality from our collective consciousness, because it probably hugely contributed to people's indifference
I wish there was a respectful appreciation button. For Sylvia, for the staff at "Casual Criminalist", and for any who do speak up and do not turn a blind eye.
When I was in high school, I was friends with this girl. One day I noticed bruises on her arm. I asked one of her good friends about this and she said it was this boy. I guess it was a known secret that this boy hit her regularly. Despite other people telling me not to, I contacted a "anonymous" tip hotline that my school district had. The police went to the girls house and the boys house but ultimately weren't able to do anything. I put anonymous in quotes because the police actually did reveal my identity to the boys parents and questioned my motives. Before I made the report, I asked the girl about the abuse and she made excuses for it that didn't make sense and I knew that was common for victims of abuse. We stopped being friends a few months later. I've looked her up in recent years and as far as I can tell she is in a better position and that boy isn't around her anymore. I often wonder what the hell her parents were doing during this. Ignoring this. There were many signs this girl was struggling and they did nothing.
Good on you for reporting it, you did the right thing, thank you. That was so unprofessional of the police to reveal your identity to the suspected perpetrator.
Thank you Simon for asking people to speak up when they think something is wrong. As a survivor of abuse, with people knowing but not acting, this is so important. So thank you.
First CC to bring me to tears. Props to Simon and Angus for presenting this in such a matter of fact way. CSI not Saw, but still…poor Sylvia. May VW rot in the deepest darkest corner of hell.
The apathy aspect of this crime reminds me of the Kitty Genovese case where 38 people admit to hearing / seeing her being murdered but literally no one bothered to help.
I've heard of this case a number of times now and everytime it kills another small part of me. The amount of people involved in this sick act of torture, and the fact her poor sister was forced to watch and take part make this easily one of the worst cases I've ever heard. I thank you and your writers for the kind way you deal with memories of the victims, I don't think I could've dealt with all the details of this nightmare again.
It's hard to give a thumbs up to stories of torture, so I'm giving a thumbs up for the dedication of the staff in the research and presentation of this story.
This story brings me to tears whenever I hear about it. I am really moved by the respect for the victims that Simon and his writers show on this channel.
On one hand, I like having my morbid curiosity satiated. But on the other hand, this was one of the hardest videos I've seen. Thank you for the tasteful way this depravity was covered and encouraging people to speak up.
I watched an American crime years ago, it's a movie based on this case and it still sits with me to this day. Thank you to Simon and the writer for being so respectful.
I really feel for Simon sometimes with the way he continues reading even when the subject is so brutal. This one I have heard before and it gets me each time. Be well Simon and know we know by your telling the victims stories you honor them. Well done Angus for honoring Silvia and omitting VW's name.
Thank you all for treating this with dignity - and for reminding us that we have a responsibility not to ignore our suspicions. My heart goes out to you, Simon, I can see the pain in your face and hear it in your voice. Thank you.
3:15 ”but when you have kids and it's just like they're so nice they're just like they're just so innocent they just smile and they don't know anything bad yeah um let's just carry on..." And you can hear Simon shedding a tear 😢😢😢
It is oddly haunting to be from the US and hear him mention he has just heard about the school shooting where 19 kids died. Not because he is in Prague, but because between recording and today, he will or won't hear about the 19 cops outside the door as the kids died, begged for help, called 911, and some had to be identified with DNA because they were unrecognizable from how many bullets were fired. The 10 yr old that put her dead classmate's blood all over herself to survive. Or he will or won't hear how soon after the other mass shootings right after. Or that there was over a dozen over memorial day weekend right after that. I know I will never remember the names of the monsters who committed those mass shootings. But I will remember that the protests that happened after 19 kids were slaughtered were organized by March for Our Lives. A protest that was put together just a few years ago, after another brutal mass shooting. And that it had to be put together by the high school CHILDREN who had just been the victims of the mass shooting.
something he may also not know is that here in the US we have on average 600 mass shootings a year at this point. I believe it was over 600 for 2020 and over 700 for 2021 and we seem right on track to get those numbers again this year
Or that children die on average of 5 a day from abuse and neglect in the US. Since the shooting an average of 140 kids were murdered by a guardian. Most of them never reached their 4th bday. 140 children who most definitely died a painful and slow death.. their stories never told.. faces forgotten. Where is the outrage? The protests for these babies?
@@azureascendant994 i am not sure if you saw the footage that just came out/new timeline, because so many excuses were given. But new footage shows them being fully aware of the situation, being tactically upgraded very quickly, having the means to open the door but no signs of even trying to open it, keys not even being an issue, one of the doors being unlocked the entire time, having shields and automatic weapons with people inside (both terrified children and teachers) informing them of what was happening... including one teacher calling a cop who was not inside, telling him she was bleeding to death. A woman who risked her life to save a ton of kids was harassed, parents were detained, one was tased. It is estimated that they could have ended the shooting soree in 3 minutes, under 10 if they wait for all of their fancy automatic weapons and at least 1 shield. Instead they protected themselves, and waited over an hour.
@@jrmckim Here in my state a woman was given custody of her 5 year old son. He had been with her cousin's family for awhile, not sure why dad didn't have custody. Anyway she had him less than a week and she murdered him with a shotgun. I told my mom she needs to be in prison for life.
I keep thinking of her poor sister. Imagine the trauma of your sister dying and you being terrified of the same things being done to you. At the same time you want to help, but you can't. Jenny was very brave in telling the police the truth. Also I think the girl who testified against her mother probably had the sudden realisation that Sylvia was a human being - leading her to hold her and cry and possibly allowing Sylvia to feel some comfort at the very end.
This story has stayed in my mind for well over two years since I first heard it. Her name is engraved in my bones because of how horrific her last bit of life was and how no one helped. So many people could have helped. Any one of them could have gone to the police...instead, a majority made the decision to take part. It exemplifies the absolute depravity humans can fall to when it turns into an us vs. them situation. Or what we'd be willing to do to an innocent just so we're not the ones getting hurt. I just...I'll remember her name for the rest of my life. Sylvia Likens deserved so much better.
As a grown man, not much shocks me, but when i think of what this poor child went through it brings tears to my eyes. The first time hearing it, I had to choked back literal sobs. It is so hard to believe that the human species is capable of such horrible acts.
I was born in Uvalde, TX (place of the shooting) and grew up in a neighboring city. The fact that you gave respect and acknowledgement to the victims is what keeps me subscribed and watching your videos across almost all your channels. I knew firsthand, some of those lost and the families involved. It truly was a tragic event.
I read about this poor girl years ago, and it shook me to the point that I have avoided any true crime retelling of it. This was a great job on a horrible crime.
Simon, huge credit to you for recognizing that you need to take care of yourself mentally and emotionally. That being said, don't hesitate to seek help as it clearly weighs on you still and this community cares about you.
I got to 23:27 before tapping out. I applaud Simon for handling this as professionally as he did and as he said going CSI not Saw, but even in the most analytical standpoint I just went ya I'm done I can't anymore.
I started looking at the comments around the same point, thinking I might take off but leave a comment on the way out. I'm out too, thanks for framing it so well👍
Thank you for telling us Sylvia’s story Simon. That was a hard one to hear but she deserves to be remembered. If hearing her story helps someone speak up about even one terrible situation it was worth it.
I'm a grown man of 62 years, I've worked offshore (oil and gas) for over 30 years. This story bought me to the brink of tears. Simon talking about calling the police to check on kids screaming pushed me over the edge. How are we such a 'humane' society, yet people like VW exist? How does one person have the 'right' to do such evil to another, yet society refuses to treat these evil people the way they need to be treated (execution)? CC is one of my favourite channels, but it's sometimes really hard to listen too. I hope Simon (and the writers and Jen) do all they need to ensure they don't get dragged down into the muck. Please guys, look after yourselves.
This was the case that almost ended my goal of getting a bachelors in criminology after having to write a semester long paper on the subject. It was a very rough time.
As someone who needed help (along with siblings), i encountered many versions of not helping. People who wanted to be the hero, but on their terms, so we never got the help. People who strongly suspected, but didn't feel the authority to act because they were in college, and the adults in the house did nothing. Adults who knew, but felt they could guide through spiritual strength. Adults who knew some, but had their own parent issues, so they felt I should get over each issue, instead of seeing the sum total of it all, amd being so aggressive about a suicide attempt with obvious fresh wounds that I lied, but the lie being so troubling someone should have been called. Being told, but being told during prayer, so it "didn't count," because that meant it was in the hands of God. Hearing a lot of things then slamming a door and complaining to others in the house about the constant screaming they heard in our household. Doctors commenting on bruises but never attempting to get us alone to ask. Being asked for an std test while a parent was out for a moment for a secret std test for sexual assault, but not asking anything about who did it. The way we were kept from getting out on our own was extremely complicated. But a lot of people knew. And I knew why they did nothing. I know that many others knew as well, but they never told me why they did nothing.
Hello Angus, the decision to not tell the name of W was the best move I ever encountered on a true crime show!!! Yes you described the torture, but naming Sylvia but not the attackers made it so much better. In my mind she was the (only) human in that story being attacked by non-human predators. And while in the beginning there was a bit of curiosity for their names it vanished into sadness for Sylvia and anger against those attackers. I really hope you´ll write more for Simon, that was an incredible manuscript!
After I had children, there were certain things that were so difficult to do as an RN. It's stayed with me my entire life. I appreciate your nightmare feelings, Simon.
This story will always be one of the ones that really upsets me. So unnecessary and tragic. 😢 Another one you should check out is the abuse done by Eunice Spry to her two foster children, Victoria & Chris. It’s mind blowing and so very sad. They both went on to write books that detail what they went through. Their story has always stuck with me and I think of it from time to time. Sadly I just learned that Victoria took her own life in 2020 and I’m shook. She seemed to be doing so well as an adult. I’d love for you to cover their story!
Simon, I'm sorry....as much as I adore you and Jen, all of your writers, and hearing how it's going with your family, I'm gonna have to sit this one out. I remember hearing this case for the very first time and was beyond disturbed. "V.W."-that monster didn't even deserve initials... Few cases stay in my nightmares...this is just one of them. (Only made it about ten minutes into the video.) May this find you well and I'll catch the next upload.
I was about to comment the same thing. This ia not a story i (or anyone i know) can hear more than once but i think it's so important to talk about it so we can avoid situations like this in the future.
I am a bit annoyed also by just how many of episodes of CC I have to skip lately as they turn more and more into gore fests. I don't need those details, they don't drive the investigation further, they are just... there. Compare it to early episodes, which did cover a lot of brutality too, but it all lead together, it unviled the story and mystery, and this is turning more and more towards the every-podcast-gore-show.
@@Puciek I would have to disagree. The stories remain factual and avoid most of the gore. There's so many details that Simon and his team avoid to specifically avoid gore porn. Some stories are fucked up, like this one. It's seriously fucked up. But I guarantee you most of the seriously fucked up shit was omitted. And there was like 5 content warnings. True crime is never going to be pretty.
@@adriandavies4787 yes. You're definitely right. Maybe the guy you replied to actually skipped the videos, because if he had watched. He would know they do their best to avoid that.
I completely understand your sentiment, but I feel you'd appreciate that the initials given weren't a name, but the moniker "Violent Witch", which the writer reveals later in the video. Just so you know that they're not even giving subtle hints to who the monster is.
I just.... there's no words is there?!! I can't fathom how someone can be this mental!! This poor, poor girl. Its just unimaginable. I hope Sylvia found peace, where ever that may be . RIP
As someone who has experienced physical and neglectful abuse before, this is the pulling of a scab on an old wound. The most painful thing about these things is how close to home these things can be. Simon is absolutely right about reaching out when someone calls for help. Thank you for sharing Simon.
I just want to say thank you to you and everyone behind The Casual Criminalist. I enjoy watching these things and on a non-professional level I am interested in human behaviour and learning about these things and the reasoning behind such behaviours. But I am so grateful that I only get this much of details and don't have to dive down those dark rabbit holes to find out all the horrible information behind these terrible things. So again Thank You
Me as I quickly realized EXACTLY what case you were covering: "Oh no..." This was a really hard one for me to watch. I first heard about this case after watching Jack Ketchum's The Girl Next Door and learning that the film was based on true events. It's such a tragedy, what happened to that poor girl... Thank you, Casual Criminalist team, for sharing her story with everyone. She deserves to be remembered for her bravery, resilience and kind heart.
I love this channel but this episode I can’t handle. I’ve heard the story once before years ago and as soon as I heard VW and took another look at the name and picture I realized who this is about. Posting a comment. Liking the video and changing. RIP to Sylvia
@@vonniedemers5683 Same here. I wish I had never seen the movie. I had to write a paper on this case when I studied CJ for a time and it wrecked me for a while. I've barely started the video because IDK if I'll be able to get through it. I really hoped that Simon wouldn't cover this case, dor his sake. I know the Hello Kitty murder was really hard on him and the Pedro Lopez case still haunts him, so I hoped this and similar cases wouldn't be covered because they are so devastating because I worry. I hope Simon never covers the Junko Furuta case.
Thank you Simon for telling this story. It's sad that in some cases the community ignore the abuse of a child. We all need to be vigilant and report any concerns to the authorities.
I have a relative that worked at a school where a teen boy told her his father would beat him for failing a test. He seemed very serious and worried, so my relative reported like she's required to. The father later came to her and thanked her. The teen was in trouble, but wasn't beaten or anything. The father though was grateful that someone took it seriously and reported it appropriately. Good people often don't mind if you report something just in case.
I encourage everyone to hug and kiss someone dear to them. We must never take what we have for granted. Simon and all your staff - I obviously don't know any of you personally, but please take care of yourselves. It's not a sign of weakness to talk to a professional
Thank you for covering this in your respectful and educated manner. I think all the long time fans understand that these stories are quite difficult for you to present to us, being a father yourself and we appreciate and thank you and angus for respecting Sylvia in more of a way then she was afforded in the last few horrible days of this sweet girls life.
This is one of 2 cases I actively avoid listening about ever since I first came across it, so here's a comment from me, and I'm gonna catch you on the next vid!
@@zotha No, the James Bulger case is the other one... But the Japanese girl one is also pretty high up there on the list of "I want to live on an island by myself and never contact humans again"
@@kristinradams7109 The James Bulger case. It's not "as horrific" (not that it should be compared, a toddler was murdered), but the court ruling made me so mad.
I've heard this story a bunch of times, but even still, thinking about this poor child's strength in the face of that living nightmare makes me tear up. It's not enough to make up for it, but at the very least, Sylvia is resting now.
I read a book about this case called Torture Mom. In it, it's explained that "VW" was buddy-buddy with the police because the husband, whose last name she used, was a police officer. In fact, if I remember correctly, the police were called to the house a few times before, but "VW" was always able to talk them out of actually investigating anything until Jenny got up the courage to speak up after Sylvia died. This is a haunting case. The way that beautiful girl, Sylvia Likens, was tortured always turns my stomach. She was a beautiful soul to the end, and she was mercifully taken, but still died too soon. She deserved to become an adult. I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing she'd never entered that hellish den of evil that was the "VW" house. Fantastic script, Angus!! Beautifully compassionate reading, Simon!!! And, of course, perfectly understated editing, Jen!!!
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Simon the reason you are familiar with it, was Ellen Paige starred in a film based on this story. It’s dark. Really dark.
Edit: I apologize Elliot Paige.
Those kids that participated should be youngling'ed
An American Crime-2007
The only reason I want to know every detail of what someone went through is because they had no choice in going through it. The least I can do is understand as completely as I can the horror they went through. There is no joy in knowing the suffering of someone but it's the least I can do in respect to what they went through.
Edit: The reason I feel this way is because I was r@ped when I was 5 and at the time I didn't have the ability to tell my story...by the time I was able to have the words, I was dismissed and asked, "Are you sure you are remembering that right?" My parents believed me and I guess that's what mattered. But I honestly believe that people's stories deserved to be told in full because they had to live through it in full. They have to live with the nightmares and horrors of it. We get the choice to listen or not and I choose to listen to every last detail because they deserve to be heard.
You may never read this but if you all do they is a man named Ronald L. Sanford he was locked up at 13 years old in 1989 he was sentenced to 170 years behind bars. I'm not excusing his crime because two elderly ladies were killed but his co- defendant didn't do a day in jail & the 5 dollar's that was stolen from the ladies home his codefendant went to the Fair & spent it not Ronald. why wasn't they both punished the same? A 13 year has never walked outside of the jail gate's for over 30 years. Look at Sam the bully he got 5 years on 19 bodies!!! Millions of dollars we're spent only to get John Gotti for 10 years!??? Sammy the bull got out of prison broke the law again went back to jail he is now out doing book tours living a wonderful life & still has his millions he didn't have to give up anything all behind John Gotti you make a deal with a devil? They say justice is blind. NO it's not nor will it ever be!!!!!
When I was a kid, a crappy choker necklace left stains and a rash on my neck that looked like ligature marks. A lady saw me in a diner. She waited for me and my parents to leave, took down our license plate and immediately called the cops. My parents raved and screamed about the nosiness of her for twenty years. To this day, they still don’t understand how important it is to be nosy when you see a child that might be in danger.
Agreed. I don't mind nosy, well meaning neighbors and teachers. My sister and I did taekwondo when we were kids and we had bruises constantly. The amount of times a teacher called the police over our bruises because he/she thought our parents were beating us. It's like no no no you don't understand we're black belts, we fight to get exercise. Eventually the cops understood that my parents weren't beating us. But not everybody has my parents some people have parents that will actually beat them.
Yes, well done that lady! If it was true, her action could have been the difference between life or death for you.
My mind immediately went to a story that happened about a year ago. A Florida waitress noticed something was wrong with a boy sitting with his family. He was skinny, bruised and the only one without a meal. She flashed him a sign, saying something like do you need help. He nodded. She called the police and it was learned that the boy was being beaten and starved by his family.
@@wahlflower3517 holy shit dude
@@MrJjones543 There's a lot more details I forgot. Like how the kid was in the only chair that allowed him to see the sign without his parents also seeing the sign. The waitress wasn't supposed to be there that day. And the family happened to be there during a slow period on a very busy day. Allowing the waitress the time to take notice of the situation. Not to mention this was pandemic times so the kid was probably in school remotely so who knows when that kid was going to be seen up close and physically by another caring adult.
In the wake of Sylvia's death, the state passed a law making it a criminal offense to fail to report any knowledge or evidence of child neglect or abuse to the authorities.
Jesus Christ! GOOD! GOOD! I can't use expletives here or my comment will be rejected, and in this case, it's actually inappropriate NOT to use expletives. God damn. In the wake of Sylvia's death. Jesus. The past was the ####### worst.
@@theskintexpat-themightygreegor Is that true? Fuck.
Another good thing is that the woman responsible ended up dying of an awful disease. She deserves worse in my opinion. They all do. I was relooking at the Junko Furuta case and found this one. At least the Japanese one gave longer sentences although one of them committed another murder after release. The filth in this case got silly sentences for such a heinous crime. Death penalty is too easy for these people. Leave them in a cage to starve. I'm sure someone would happily torment people like that. If I was a judge, I would be pissed to give these filth easy lesser sentences. Zero justice in this trial except the evil witch dying of cancer. That is only because of her smoking and not the justice system. Her children and the others deserve the same. So many good folks die young yet these creatures somehow live. Some people just do not deserve to live.
Yeah. It’s a misdemeanor, though, like a traffic violation. Doesn’t carry much weight. Almost all (48) states have them. “Good Samaritan” laws are hard to pass constitutional muster.
At least it’s something, though.
I'm thankful for the way Sylvia was spoken about here. She deserves to at least be remembered for more than the terrible things she went through. Rest in peace Sylvia.
I think the best thing to remember her for is what she went through to protect her sister. Her sister was disabled, and she did everything possible to take all the punishment on herself. She was an incredibly brave soul surrounded by evil.
Less surrounded by evil and more surrounded by negligence; indifferent church members, neighbors, etc. If defamation by anyone is present, the originator of the defamation, in my opinion, is usually the guilty party.
Agreed, same with how they talked about Elizabeth Short’s case. These people are people, and don’t deserve to just be remembered for what happened to them, or remembered for the perpetrators of their case. They’re people.
@@monroerobbins7551 Well said.
especially after how much vw tried to make people believe the vile things she said about her
Sylvia's story has haunted me since I learned of it years ago. I still cry for her. I read that Sylvia's older sister did show up at the home where they were and "VW" refused to allow her to see her sisters. All I can say, plead in fact; as a child that was abused and survived because my teacher DID say something... please, speak up when you see something. So many people failed Sylvia. She deserved so much better than this world gave her. Don't be someone who fails a child in your life. Rest in Peace Sylvia. 🙏🏽 🕊
I like serial killer stuff but this one haunts me. Listened yesterday and haven't stopped thinking about how disturbing this was. Words aren't enough
Granted I had a mentally bad day, but I had a panic attack for Sylvia during "the worst of it" part. I can't imagine going through that. I can't imagine some I love going through that. I can't even imagine someone I hate going through that. My heart is just shattered that this could even happen. VW isn't a human being. She is a monster in human skin
Yes I too first heard this case years ago and I’ve never forgotten it. Her sweet face is forever in my memory. Though sadly so is that vile demons’ :c
I think the main reason why this did go on to the extent it did was because it was largely over summer break
I was a camp counselor when I was a teenager - and there was a kid who came back one summer and was very different, just really withdrawn and unhappy. I was unsure about doing anything (I was 15 or 16?) but I made a call to Child Protection Services when I overheard her talking about not wanting to go home. I only found out years later, through social media of all things, that she had been living with some really abusive family members at the time and was severely neglected - CPS was able to investigate and return her to her other parent’s custody.
All this to say: Please, please call when you think a child maybe needs help. It’s not always obvious, and it’s really uncomfortable, but it can save their life.
Sadly plenty of people shouldn't have children nor have custody of them.
Thank you for acting! You may have saved that child’s life💖✌🏽.
I’m a camp counselor myself and have always been told that I was an obligatory reporter
If I had any reason to suspect anything, I was legally obligated to report it
Fortunately, I have not been in a situation with a camper facing abuse, but I take that responsibility very seriously
@@normalhuman9878 Good looking out👍🏽. Thank you💖✌🏽.
@@normalhuman9878 Same - I was a mandated reporter if a child told me that they were being abused or neglected. It was just a case that really stayed with me, because she didn’t tell me that - I just had a feeling, and I made a judgement call and hoped I wasn’t overreacting.
This is the most disturbing episode I have heard. The fact so many random children in the village were happy to join in is what made it so much more disturbing to me than other episodes.
Lord of the Flies.
@@jenniferlloyd9574they didn’t rape for fun in the book….
The respect for the victims shown by the author and Simon is what keeps me coming back to this channel. Not giving name to the perpetrator is the correct choice.
And your lust for violent stories.
@@JohnMoran there are channels where I might just agree with such an assertion, but I would argue this isn't one of them. They skip over the intricate details while still telling the overall story. As Simon often says, CSI, not Saw. And believe me, if you're looking for Saw style stuff, there are channels for it. Hell, even the Wikipedia pages are often more graphic. But I'd like to think that isn't truly the point of telling these stories, not to exploit the suffering of the victims, but rather to highlight the justice (or lack there of) that society as a whole doles out, while also hopefully maintaining as much of the dignity of the victims as possible.
And honestly, it's even better when the names are removed like this.
@Ryan C well ultimately we are all here for crime. If it's not "gore porn" it's essentially emotional porn. This one is the latter and just sad though. But with killers like Bundy etc, we all know we wanna hear the gruesome details. That's the whole allure
Here in New Zealand there was an Aussie a few years ago who killed 51 people, men, women, children. All the news media here chose not to name him, so he couldn't get the fame and glory he wanted like the Norwegian.
Obviously his name is out there is you want to know it but for a while there I was super proud of these outlets not giving him the oxygen of publicity that he wanted.
Also this is what my friend had to say about not naming Gertrude Baniszewski
"If you're gonna say something. You can't pull any punches. You got to go at it from all sides no matter how Gruesome. You got to mention the killers. You have to presume or list the factors that could have potentially sent them down that path, their mindsets and the environment they were in to better understand how to prevent such things from occurring."
There is a part of Stephen King's novel, "IT", which has always absolutely horrified me, and it wasn't the clown. It was how perfectly he described this small town in the 1950s where all these terrible abuses happened to people, especially kids, and no one ever talked about it. All the adults would look away. They would pretend nothing was happening. That was the real horror, and I have no doubt that communities like that existed and still exist. If just one person chooses not to look away, the horror can stop.
That's how it was in my hometown. I moved away at 21 in 2001 and found out years later the ENTIRE town knew we were abused and our mother was "crazy" or "nuts" (their words. She actually has borderline personality disorder), but no one said a word. Not a single teacher, coach, friends parent, staff.. no one. It was "family business" and you "can't tell a parent how to raise their kids". It's still that way in rural Oklahoma to this day.
As a father, Sylvia's last words about wanting her daddy brought me to tears. I felt sick by the end of this terrible story.
As a 20something who never wants to have kids this fucking destroyed me... Just the entire thing, the cruelty, the injustice, the fucking horrors that people are somehow capable of... I don't know how to deal with this right now...
@@Cordt4Callum I know. You need to play some soft, peaceful music, to help your mind reset from this horror. Try Peder B. Helland, he’s brilliant. Hope you have a good day💖✌🏽.
Being a daddy's girl made those words strike pretty hard for me, too. I wish so much that she'd had her daddy.
First time crying at a true crime documentary, this one really hit home, not only how much Sylvia suffered but especially how strong and courageous she was despite all the pain, fear and torment. One of the greatest examples of bravery I have ever heard. Rest in peace Sylvia
I love that at the beginning of the video Simon goes to find out who wrote the episode, I love the credit that the writers get in the video and not just in the description
Poor Jen.... Forgotten again. 💗 She does an awesome job!
And the cartoon sound effect as he goes to look!
@@shellycoffey6436 jen is the real mvp in this group 👍👍
I think the reason this one got to me a bit(I'm pretty dead inside to the horrors of the world for a few reasons, I wouldn't count it as a good thing though) was Simon's insistence to speak up. If I had been taken seriously when I was a kid, then perhaps I wouldn't be still trying to put back together the mental pieces twenty years later.
From an abuse survivor: Thank you Simon for the beautiful amount of empathy you show towards the victims in every video, even after publishing so many.
Yes, if people had stepped in further for me it would've been a huge difference to my life
Simon, thank you for saying you should call the police if you hear screaming for help. I screamed for help when my husband had a heart attack in our front yard and I was lucky enough that my neighbor heard me and came running when I was on with 911.
Always call for help. Always help if you can.
“Turning the other cheek” is what you do when someone harms you. You cannot “turn the other cheek” unless you are attacked. The community turned a blind eye.
“Turning the other cheek” is what you do when someone harms you, and in stead of fighting back you let them keep harming you.
I knew as soon as I saw the title that Simon would NOT be his normal, ranting, funny self.
Thank you for keeping V.W.'s name out of Sylvia's story.
This is disturbing on so many levels. Poor, poor Sylvia.
Take care of yourself Simon. ♥️
I saw the title and thought the same , the case shows abysmal cruelty and poor Simon.
I got that same feeling with the Hi-fi murders. With these especially dark cases you know it's not going to be fun
Havent even started it yet but when I read the title I said out loud to myself "oh no, you're not gonna like this one simon", but I will say I do very much respect the heck outta the compassionate and sensation-less way the writers write about these darkest cases
Well I wish he wouldn't be like that on any casual criminalists that has to do with the death of somebody not just ones as dark as this
@@GrievousReborn everyone deals with horrific things differently. Sometimes you have to find a reason to lighten things up to be able to deal with it. He's never disrespectful to the victims, and that's all that matters.
This is hard to watch. The sheer number of people involved in abusing Sylvia is as terrifying as it is horrific.
I'm not usually one to get emotionally invested about stories like this, but this absolutely broke me.
As horrific and fucked up as this story is, let's remember, as Simon said, that Sylvia's refusal to get her sister involved with her situation was one of the greatest acts of bravery and love anyone has ever done.
Let's glorify Sylvia's courage and strength and let the perpetrators' names fade into the obscurity of time. Fuck them and any legacy they may have.
It's always easier to glorify someone's sacrifice after everyone ignored the truth while the cruelties were happening! Yes, she was brave, but what if she had gotten a weapon and killed the abuser? Would she be any less brave? What if a neighbor stopped the abuse by not tolerating BS from the abusers? Would she be any less brave? All of this to say, that her life was sacrificed by others. She wasn't a saint, she was a victim and everyone would do well to remember that! The indifference of all those around her caused her to sacrifice her life.
@@jaimyjerchig5240 guns don't magically solve all problems, and they are not the solution. And I say this as a gun owner and abuse survivor--had I tried to use a gun on my abusers, it would have been turned on me instead.
I'm the same here Issac. I don't usually get emotional. But bloody Hell. This absolutely broke me to abdolute bits.
Samee
None of the children served very long, and I've always had mixed feelings about that. The one who testified for the state changed her name and became a teacher. The three older boys who were convicted served about two years each; one became a minister. None of the other children were charged, including a neighborhood boy who admitted to 40+ episodes of violence against Sylvia. So many lives ruined by one evil woman, and there seems to have been no justice at all once there was parole for "good behavior" and being a "good Christian."
"God prefers a kind atheist to a hateful Christian"
Where was the bit about her being a good Christian? I'm not saying you're wrong but I'm really not able to pinpoint where religion plays any role into her release.
How did she get to be a teacher?! I’m sorry, I’m unable to comprehend how after abusing a child, even as a child, they could gain the ability to teach children.
@@mebreevee1997 Juvy record is sealed, probably, and she changed her name.
WHAT!!!??? I can't believe that sh*t! I think that is what hurts most about this story. That all these people did not get to die in agony like Sylvia. There's no justice in this!
I'm somewhat desensitised to true crime in general but this story broke me. This poor girl and her sister went through absolute hell. It's such a heartbreaking story.
Same this one just hit diffrent
Yeah, I normally listen in the background, this one I had to stop, just couldn't continue paying attention to anything else.
If you haven’t heard of it before you should check out the Eunice Spry story. She’s known as “Britain’s most sadistic mom.” She horrifically abused her foster children Victoria & Christopher. It’s a story that will stick with you. It’s mind-blowing. Both kids went on to write books as adults that will shock you. There are a few videos about it and interviews with Victoria & Chris and after I heard about it, I read both books. It’s so shocking! Both kids seemed to be doing so well as adults but I just learned Victoria took her own life in 2020. Now I’m sad all over again.
Same here this is way too similar to shit I've been through. This is one of the few that has been truly hard for me to listen to. Damn nobody deserves shit like that to happen to them.
alright so i’ll skip that one
thank you !
As someone who knew about this case the second I saw the name in the title, I wanted to see what this channels take on it would be, but I also knew that this would be one of those cases that will legitimately stay with viewers for years and years. I think of Pedro Lopez sometimes and while it can be argued which case is 'worse' by people who might care about ranking this sort of thing, anytime I think of a heartbreaking case, this is the one that comes to mind first, even before Pedro Lopez. So I know this one in particular will stay with Simon, just as it has with me and likely will for a lot of viewers.
This is also the quietest and most subdued I have ever seen Simon in a video and I think that really speaks to the subject matter. It really is one of those cases that once you learn about it, you don't really forget it, so I will join those urging Simon to take care of himself, to go home and spend time with his family, and to care for himself first and foremost above this show.
I completely agree. I am a Kenyan woman who thought herself immune to emotional attachment to stories, but this one was bad. It has stuck with me, filled me with anger and hatred. I think it's the injustice of it all and the helplessness of just hearing what happened. It has been weeks and I cant get this story off my mind
This one is infamous for SO many people seeing, knowing, and being involved in the abuse... Or even seeing her in school or church and ignoring signs because of the customs of the time to mind ones business. The sheer number of people who failed Sylvia and the level of evil thrust upon her makes it stay in our thoughts. Let it be a lesson that if you ever see something, even a sign... say something. Better to be wrong and a.child be safe than to ignore it and have a terrible outcome. Fly with angels, Sylvia!
@@kimberini6465it wasn't a custom of the tine. To this day small towns heavy in churches will still allow kids and spouses to be abused severely and not say a word because it's "family business "
When I was in law school they made us watch the movie that was made about Sylvia as a first assignment for a class on juvenile protection services. I guess the theory was that if you could make it through the movie you could continue with the class, but if you couldn’t you knew that you were in the wrong place and you wouldn’t be able to handle it in real life. I’ve never seen so many people walk out of a class before in my life. It’s a really hard watch. This story has always stuck with me
Do you remember the title? Or any actors so I can find it? I saw it but with the level of violence and cruelty I didn't realize it was based on true story.
As a fellow lawyer we had similar "exercises" about absolutely horrific cases of domestic violence and political processes that occured in fifties. Those classes hit me the hardest and not just because one of my granddads was actually imprisoned for his political views, it was the sheer brutality that people were able to commit in said instances. I had to walk away from one of those classes. I almost gave up on law becouse i couldn´t handle it.
The thing is, my teacher actually came to me after I left the class and said to me something that stuck with me. She said that those cases are not so much about the law as they are about compasion, personal integrity and innability to do nothing in face of injustice or any other wrongdoing. At that moment I knew what kind of lawyer I wanted to be. I actually made it my ritual to write her words in my calender just to remember why I´m doing what I do.
@@andiward7068 Elliot Page played Sylvia. It's a really difficult watch, even if you're usually able to handle this subject matter.
@@jasminecollins897 I've seen it once but I'm not watching it alone again.
@@andiward7068 good call.
I first found out about Sylvia about 12 years ago. I was around 13 at the time. I've never forgotten her since then. I saw the film "An American Crime" with Elliot (then "Ellen") Page portraying Sylvia, (Page's performance was excellent but the film was far too sympathetic towards VW and I'm not a fan of it for that reason), and I wanted to find out everything about her.
Her story had a massive impact on me. I don't know if this is the right thing to say, but I was going through a pretty bad time, and she inspired me. (I won't go into detail but it was nothing even close to her suffering) Her story genuinely made me want to be a better person. I thought that if she could suffer through what she did, then I could suffer through what I was. It helped me understand what life was supposed to be about. She's a person that must be remembered. (I'd obviously much prefer that no-one had heard of her, and she lived the happy life that she deserved, I'm not a monster.) However, she is the best of us. Truly. Her self-sacrifice, courage and strength is very rare and something we need more of. I'm not a religious man but if anyone deserves to be in heaven, it is her.
There used to be a memorial website for her, which I would have encouraged everyone to visit, I tried to find it there to share the link but it seems to be gone. When I found it before I thought it was lovely. It had a place to write a note about her story and how it impacted you. It was lovely to see that even people today still remembered her. It also had the complete court transcript to read, which was harrowing.
There is the website for the Sylvia Likens Child Advocacy Centre, which was renamed to honour her in 2016, which I guess brings us to the only silver lining of this story. The media exposure of her story basically kick started child's rights reform in the US. From what I've read, it all leads back to her. Social services, child advocacy groups, school care, etc.
If you've read this far, thank you, and don't forgot Simon's message. If you suspect something is happening, it's better to say something and be wrong than stay silent and regret it forever.
You may be interested in reading some of Viktor Frankl’s works. Feel free to skip if you already know this, but he was a psychiatrist who wrote about his experiences in and insights from the concentration camps he survived during the Holocaust. The main book I’m thinking of is called Man’s Search for Meaning. It describes his philosophy on suffering, among other things. I haven’t made it all the way through the book (it is, of course, a difficult read) but as far as I understand it, he says man’s search for meaning must be fulfilled by one’s deliberate path through life. We make our own meaning, and how we choose to react to our own and others’ suffering has a lot to do with who we are and how fulfilled we feel. The way you wrote about Sylvia’s story showing you what life should be about just reminded me of Frankl’s teachings. He also founded Logotherapy, which deals with many of the same issues of life, meaning, courage, and persistence in the face of hardship.
Haven't even started the video yet but I saw the title and immediately thought "Oh no. Poor Simon"
Same. It’s one of the most horrific and brutal crimes ever.
Simon won't forget this case anytime soon! Poor Sylvia...
Unfortunately I think V.W. will replace Pedro Lopez in Simon's mind. I'm familiar with this horrific case, and it's still one of the most brutal I've heard.
I actually regret watching the video. This one is beyond fucked up.
I had the same reaction. The first time I read about Sylvia's murder it haunted me for a very long time. I had to mentally brace myself before watching. I can't imagine how Simon feels, doing a cold read of her story. I don't think I could have done it.
Just to reiterate the moral of this horrific tale - my neighbours used to row a lot but one night the screaming got so bad I suggested we call the police. My mum has the same attitude of the neighbours in Sylvia’s case - that is was none of our business and to just ignore it. Luckily, this was only last year so I was an adult and I’ve never been one to listen to my mother, so I called the police myself and it was the best decision I’ve ever made in my entire life. It turns out the “row” had become extremely violent with the husband beating his wife half to death and threatening to kill her 5 year old son! I dread to think what may have happened if I’d listened to my mum, but I know I probably couldn’t have lived with myself! ALWAYS get help if you hear your neighbours screaming - at worst, it’s nothing and you’ve caused your neighbours a brief bit of embarrassment - at best, you’ve saved a life!
I remember when I was a kid, my little sister had her friends over and they had a piñata in the back yard. One of the girls squealed "Don't hit me with the stick!" while they were hitting the piñata, and about 10 minutes later there was a pair of cops at the front door because one of the neighbors had called 911. A bit awkward at the time, but I appreciated that the neighbors would call.
I gotta say I don't really appreciate that they would just call. Look over the fence and assess the situation real quick if your really "call the cops" concerned otherwise you're wasting the cops time the tax payer money and (the way some cops react these days to minimal threat) potentially lives.
@@Fortune-gx9bn It was pretty late at night (the girls were having a sleepover) so, if they did look over the fence, they probably couldn't see anything.
@@Fortune-gx9bn imagine calling the cops for a stupid reason like this and when they get there they "accidentally" shoot someone and it's your fault for calling them
@@somehaloguy9372 yeah this is one of the few valid reasons I can think of to be careful with calling the police especially in america. and especially if they're not white. and it's incredibly messed up that we even have to take that in mind before calling for help from the people who are supposed to help..
This was one of the most horrendous cases I read about in my forensic pathology class. It was sickening and so sad what this girl went through. My professor even warned us beforehand, yet several people in my class showed how little compassion for victims they had. They were given lower grades for their review of this case.
As soon as I saw the title I remembered what happened to Sylvia. It's cases like hers that make me truly hope in heaven because she truly deserved a better place after suffering such horrific circumstances.
And so there's a hell for VW
I read about her years ago, and just like Junko Furuta's, I would never forget this case. There is true evil in this world, and it walks and talks and breathes just like us.
This feels like a story that shouldn't be real. The sheer evil and depravity of it is just that abhorrent. Genuinely horrifying
Watch the movie about it. Girl next door. Good luck
There is a book Child Called It is about a child who was abused by a mother and her children, very similar to this, but that child survived and was rescued.
@@izzyxbladesat least someone made it out alive of a case like this. I hate Gertrude. She was the worst out of all of them.
As important as it is for things like this to be chronicled, I feel so bad for Simon. Difficult as this is to watch, I can't imagine Simon's pain reading it, Angus' pain researching it, or Jen's pain editing it. Thank you for your strength and fortitude in continuing to educate everyone you can.
I live in Illinois and this story sent me on a pilgrimage of sorts years ago. I was there a year or so before they finally tore the house down. It was crazy to see just how close the basement windows were to the next house. I visited the house and the memorial at the park down the street. Wasn’t the best neighborhood when I was there so it’s probably even worse now. It took me two trips to find her grave though because my dumbass went in the winter time and her grave was covered in snow the first trip.
The area isn't the greatest at all, but I only paid 500/month in rent for a 3 bedroom when I lived the next street over from where the house was.
Thank you for at least going. Sylvia deserved to be visited and remembered. I’m glad they made a memorial for her. She deserves to be cherished.
Thank you so much for not giving Sylvia's tormenters any names. I couldn't watch this all the way through, but I am very thankful for the respect shown to poor Sylvia.
When I 1st moved into a new house, my middle kid was screaming and crying because her older sister wouldn't let her help make a PB & j sandwich. (She was 5 at the time) my new neighbor heard my kid screaming and came right over & knocked on the door. She asked if my kid was alright & did not take my word for it that she was. She insisted on seeing and talking to my screaming kid, and asked her why she was freaking out, and ofc my kid said " my sister wouldn't let me spread the peanut butter". My neighbor apologized but also said she had to check when she heard the screams and would continue to do so. We weren't mad, totally understood her reasons, and we also had a chat to our kids explaining why you can't just scream like that over little things because it scares people into thinking something horrible happened. (My middle kid has a very high pitched, blood curdling scream when she wants to lol). But I respect that neighbor because so many people just assume it's nothing when it's really something.
VW is a vile person. This is one of the worst cases I've ever heard. Simon, do take care of yourself. 💜
No that’s ridiculous , people should mind there business unless there’s obvious signs of abuse..don’t just go around telling people how to raise their own kids..because a kid is being a kid
@@aaronx8006 So you're an abuser. Got it.
@@aq5426 No I’m just not insane lol like you
@@aaronx8006 I totally agree with you tbh, but in this case I understood, my middle kids scream sounds like she is being murdered. Luckily she's 19 now and doesn't do that anymore, but seriously, if you heard a scream like she did you'd check too 😂 i can't even describe it to you. Normal kid cries or screams, mind your business, blood curdling screams, very high pitched like a coach's whistle only higher, plus crying etc, idk how to describe it properly here lol. 🙂
@@aq5426 another Karen wanted to tell people how to raise their own kids 🤣
My heart breaks for this poor little girl. I hope that Jenny has been able to have a safe life and to be surrounded by care.
Her biological parents gave her to the prosecutor. Fortunately, unlike VW, he wasn't a child abuser
Jenny died at 54 from a heart attack in 2004.
And she was dependent on anxiety medication
“They heard, they saw, they simply did nothing. It wasn’t their business.” This line hit me really hard. I was severely abused as a child (nowhere even near what Sylvia endured, but still awful) and people DID see. People DID hear. But it “wasn’t their business” so they did nothing. It’s absolutely sickening how often this happens. IF YOU SEE SOMETHING AND IT’S NOT RIGHT, DO SOMETHING. Otherwise the blood is on your hands too.
My aunt used to be a reporter, and she did a series on the lives of children in the foster/state care system. She quit her job right after that because she told me she would hear at least one case every WEEK that was as bad or worse than Sylvia Likens' story. Working special services at a school, I have kids who went through things very much like this and it seems like all we can do is try to get them to a point where they're ok being alive. What happened to her is horrifying. It wasn't a one-time thing, and it's not especially rare. We need to honor her by using what we learn from her story to help suffering children everywhere.
On top of all the other reasons, it's also a good thing that the abuser's name was left out because Simon would have had a stroke trying to pronounce her last name.
That's extremely disturbing...
Poor sweet soul, glad she is not in pain anymore. God's speed sweet angel ❤️ thank you Angus for a very respectful and touching way of telling us this awful story. Thank you Simon for your very respectful and caring reading. Stay safe you two and Jenny lest we not forget Jenny who has to hear the stories and research pictures of these heart wrenching stories
Love and strength to you all.
I used to live in the same neighborhood where Sylvia was murdered. The house has been torn down to make room for a church parking lot, but the area still felt a bit off. There's also a memorial for Sylvia in the park between where the house stood and downtown.
Great to hear at least she got something there to remember her by. There's too many victims we will never know.
I'm glad there is a memorial for Sylvia there. I understand what you mean about the area feeling off. My mother says she's sensitive to this sort of thing. There's a house my parents visited decades ago and my mother wouldn't go through the front door. She knew something bad had happened there. My dad asked the people and they told him what had happened and it was indeed bad like my mom had thought.
I live in the area, and I'll never forget the day they tore the house down. As a kid I didn't really understand why it was a big deal.
@@SolaScientia There was a terrible drunk driving accident in front of my house. The area has never felt the same since. My bedroom is the closet part of my house to where it happened, and I've seen and heard some strange things there in the years since, sometimes disturbing, sometimes neutral. Maybe I'm mental, but the thought of haunting is enough to bother me even if I don't really believe.
@@martletkay That sounds awful for sure and I think the area would really feel different as you describe. I'm not sensitive to it, but my sister and aunt have both seen a woman in a white nightgown with long dark hair in our house. I haven't seen her. My dad collects old clocks (like 1800s clocks), and if 1 is in a specific area of the dining room and is running, then sometimes the weights will be at the top of the clock even though it'll have run for a few hours and the weights should have dropped down enough to be wound back up but not enough to stop the clock like it was stopped. Very odd and it didn't matter which clock was in that location either.
This case was handled so well!!! Believe me, there was an unbelievable amount of detail left out, but I most appreciated how y'all highlighted the victims' name only. Honestly, this is a case that sticks with me, ever since the first time I discovered it... on a crime recreation show; Angus Keenan, you handled this truly evil case with the most respect and class I've ever seen. Thank you! 💜
Recently my nephew asked me if I think monsters exist. My response was "Yes, but they aren't magical or mystical or bigfoots. They're humans who choose to cause pain."
I’m glad you made a video about this poor girl. Because I already know the story I can’t bring myself to sit through this episode; I don’t have the emotional stamina to revisit it. But this is one I want people to know, because it’s so awful. That these types of people are out there. & Silvia deserves to have her story told.
Oh my god. This was sickening. I nearly had to bow out of it, but I stayed to honor Sylvia's memory by becoming another person who remembers her name. I've never heard of this case before. V.W. and D.S. are far to mild of names for the woman and her children who committed these vile acts against an innocent teen. I have far fouler names in mind for them. I won't even speculate on how people can be so cruel because I know the answer: humans suck.
Thank you, Simon and Angus, for your careful, thoughtful coverage of this case. Especially Angus for excluding the name of the vile woman and her children who were the lead perpetrators of the cruelty against Sylvia.
Me too man. This one got more than any previous episode.
What’s worse is the V.W. is forcing her children to beat Sylvia. Not to mention what she had other kids in the neighborhood do to her.
I had to take a break when he was describing how she was brought out of the basement. I was crying too hard to pay attention and I just need to regain some composure. That sentencing has me seething and I hope V.W.'s death was the most painful thing possible.
Sylvia Likens is an American Junko Furuta and hearing her story is always heartbreaking and sobering, but a necessary conversation to have. Thank you Angus and Simon and Jen and all the other writers who give the protagonists back some of their lost dignity by telling their stories in such a considerate, non-sensational, and humanistic way
Thank you for discussing this, Simon and friends. There are so few good documentaries about this case, and I feel like this one should never EVER be forgotten. This is honestly one of the worst cases I've ever heard from all sides. The level of tragedy here is off the charts. The fact that nobody helped Sylvia or even attempted to make things right on the justice side is maddening. God rest her sweet soul. I hope her sister is able to find some peace in this life in some way.
A similar case is described in the book “A Child Called It “. The book is not without controversy. Many stated that the horrible abuse perpetrated by the family of the abused couldn’t have taken place because someone would have reported it. But this was the 1970’s when the neighbors could slap you for riding your bike on their lawn and then call your mom who would slap you again for the same reason. This horrible case did finally make its way through the California court system resulting in changes that required teachers and others to report suspected child abuse. It’s a heartbreaking read, but something I believe should be required for everyone who considers themselves an adult.
I read that book in high school and I cried for the first time in years. It was so similar to my childhood. I hope everyone that doubted it was real never has to find out first hand how it feels to undergo something like that. I grew up in the 1990s so it isn't just the previous generations.
I heard about this case before and they weren't as thoughtful about the presentation as you and Angus were. It is very, very much how many people failed Sylvia that makes it 1000 times worse. People knew and no one stepped up to get her help. I can understand why her sister was quiet - I am a survivor too, I know the mindset. That neighbors, teachers, community members did not raise their voices :'( What a sad, sad situation.
Just another reason to wipe the sl*t shaming mentality from our collective consciousness, because it probably hugely contributed to people's indifference
I wish there was a respectful appreciation button. For Sylvia, for the staff at "Casual Criminalist", and for any who do speak up and do not turn a blind eye.
When I was in high school, I was friends with this girl. One day I noticed bruises on her arm. I asked one of her good friends about this and she said it was this boy. I guess it was a known secret that this boy hit her regularly. Despite other people telling me not to, I contacted a "anonymous" tip hotline that my school district had. The police went to the girls house and the boys house but ultimately weren't able to do anything. I put anonymous in quotes because the police actually did reveal my identity to the boys parents and questioned my motives. Before I made the report, I asked the girl about the abuse and she made excuses for it that didn't make sense and I knew that was common for victims of abuse. We stopped being friends a few months later. I've looked her up in recent years and as far as I can tell she is in a better position and that boy isn't around her anymore. I often wonder what the hell her parents were doing during this. Ignoring this. There were many signs this girl was struggling and they did nothing.
Good on you for reporting it, you did the right thing, thank you.
That was so unprofessional of the police to reveal your identity to the suspected perpetrator.
@@Religion0 Its unfortunately pretty common.
Thank you Simon for asking people to speak up when they think something is wrong. As a survivor of abuse, with people knowing but not acting, this is so important. So thank you.
First CC to bring me to tears. Props to Simon and Angus for presenting this in such a matter of fact way. CSI not Saw, but still…poor Sylvia. May VW rot in the deepest darkest corner of hell.
The apathy aspect of this crime reminds me of the Kitty Genovese case where 38 people admit to hearing / seeing her being murdered but literally no one bothered to help.
I remember reading about this years ago and it's definitely in my personal top 5 cases that pisses me off the most, poor girls.
I've heard of this case a number of times now and everytime it kills another small part of me. The amount of people involved in this sick act of torture, and the fact her poor sister was forced to watch and take part make this easily one of the worst cases I've ever heard. I thank you and your writers for the kind way you deal with memories of the victims, I don't think I could've dealt with all the details of this nightmare again.
It's hard to give a thumbs up to stories of torture, so I'm giving a thumbs up for the dedication of the staff in the research and presentation of this story.
This story brings me to tears whenever I hear about it. I am really moved by the respect for the victims that Simon and his writers show on this channel.
On one hand, I like having my morbid curiosity satiated. But on the other hand, this was one of the hardest videos I've seen. Thank you for the tasteful way this depravity was covered and encouraging people to speak up.
This case is one of the worst I've ever heard, Simon does it justice!
I watched an American crime years ago, it's a movie based on this case and it still sits with me to this day.
Thank you to Simon and the writer for being so respectful.
I really feel for Simon sometimes with the way he continues reading even when the subject is so brutal. This one I have heard before and it gets me each time. Be well Simon and know we know by your telling the victims stories you honor them. Well done Angus for honoring Silvia and omitting VW's name.
Thank you all for treating this with dignity - and for reminding us that we have a responsibility not to ignore our suspicions. My heart goes out to you, Simon, I can see the pain in your face and hear it in your voice. Thank you.
3:15 ”but when you have kids and it's just like they're so nice they're just like
they're just so innocent they just smile and they don't know anything bad yeah um let's just carry on..." And you can hear Simon shedding a tear 😢😢😢
It is oddly haunting to be from the US and hear him mention he has just heard about the school shooting where 19 kids died. Not because he is in Prague, but because between recording and today, he will or won't hear about the 19 cops outside the door as the kids died, begged for help, called 911, and some had to be identified with DNA because they were unrecognizable from how many bullets were fired. The 10 yr old that put her dead classmate's blood all over herself to survive. Or he will or won't hear how soon after the other mass shootings right after. Or that there was over a dozen over memorial day weekend right after that.
I know I will never remember the names of the monsters who committed those mass shootings.
But I will remember that the protests that happened after 19 kids were slaughtered were organized by March for Our Lives.
A protest that was put together just a few years ago, after another brutal mass shooting. And that it had to be put together by the high school CHILDREN who had just been the victims of the mass shooting.
something he may also not know is that here in the US we have on average 600 mass shootings a year at this point. I believe it was over 600 for 2020 and over 700 for 2021 and we seem right on track to get those numbers again this year
Those 19 cops are a frikin disappointment. Their job is to stop the active shooter. The cops should be arrested and/or deprived of their badges.
Or that children die on average of 5 a day from abuse and neglect in the US.
Since the shooting an average of 140 kids were murdered by a guardian. Most of them never reached their 4th bday. 140 children who most definitely died a painful and slow death.. their stories never told.. faces forgotten. Where is the outrage? The protests for these babies?
@@azureascendant994 i am not sure if you saw the footage that just came out/new timeline, because so many excuses were given. But new footage shows them being fully aware of the situation, being tactically upgraded very quickly, having the means to open the door but no signs of even trying to open it, keys not even being an issue, one of the doors being unlocked the entire time, having shields and automatic weapons with people inside (both terrified children and teachers) informing them of what was happening... including one teacher calling a cop who was not inside, telling him she was bleeding to death.
A woman who risked her life to save a ton of kids was harassed, parents were detained, one was tased.
It is estimated that they could have ended the shooting soree in 3 minutes, under 10 if they wait for all of their fancy automatic weapons and at least 1 shield.
Instead they protected themselves, and waited over an hour.
@@jrmckim Here in my state a woman was given custody of her 5 year old son. He had been with her cousin's family for awhile, not sure why dad didn't have custody. Anyway she had him less than a week and she murdered him with a shotgun. I told my mom she needs to be in prison for life.
I keep thinking of her poor sister. Imagine the trauma of your sister dying and you being terrified of the same things being done to you. At the same time you want to help, but you can't. Jenny was very brave in telling the police the truth. Also I think the girl who testified against her mother probably had the sudden realisation that Sylvia was a human being - leading her to hold her and cry and possibly allowing Sylvia to feel some comfort at the very end.
This story has stayed in my mind for well over two years since I first heard it. Her name is engraved in my bones because of how horrific her last bit of life was and how no one helped. So many people could have helped. Any one of them could have gone to the police...instead, a majority made the decision to take part. It exemplifies the absolute depravity humans can fall to when it turns into an us vs. them situation. Or what we'd be willing to do to an innocent just so we're not the ones getting hurt. I just...I'll remember her name for the rest of my life. Sylvia Likens deserved so much better.
As a grown man, not much shocks me, but when i think of what this poor child went through it brings tears to my eyes. The first time hearing it, I had to choked back literal sobs. It is so hard to believe that the human species is capable of such horrible acts.
I was born in Uvalde, TX (place of the shooting) and grew up in a neighboring city. The fact that you gave respect and acknowledgement to the victims is what keeps me subscribed and watching your videos across almost all your channels.
I knew firsthand, some of those lost and the families involved. It truly was a tragic event.
I read about this poor girl years ago, and it shook me to the point that I have avoided any true crime retelling of it. This was a great job on a horrible crime.
Simon, huge credit to you for recognizing that you need to take care of yourself mentally and emotionally. That being said, don't hesitate to seek help as it clearly weighs on you still and this community cares about you.
I got to 23:27 before tapping out. I applaud Simon for handling this as professionally as he did and as he said going CSI not Saw, but even in the most analytical standpoint I just went ya I'm done I can't anymore.
I started looking at the comments around the same point, thinking I might take off but leave a comment on the way out. I'm out too, thanks for framing it so well👍
Strongly reminded me of the case of Junko Furuta, its so sad that there are cases like this in the world
This is, like, the third or fourth mention of this Junko person. What is up with that
@@starbird3939 it’s a horrific cause where a teenage girl was tortured to death.
Thank you for telling us Sylvia’s story Simon. That was a hard one to hear but she deserves to be remembered. If hearing her story helps someone speak up about even one terrible situation it was worth it.
I'm a grown man of 62 years, I've worked offshore (oil and gas) for over 30 years. This story bought me to the brink of tears. Simon talking about calling the police to check on kids screaming pushed me over the edge.
How are we such a 'humane' society, yet people like VW exist? How does one person have the 'right' to do such evil to another, yet society refuses to treat these evil people the way they need to be treated (execution)?
CC is one of my favourite channels, but it's sometimes really hard to listen too. I hope Simon (and the writers and Jen) do all they need to ensure they don't get dragged down into the muck. Please guys, look after yourselves.
I'm glad that you have a life to fill your mind outside of these stories, Simon
This was the case that almost ended my goal of getting a bachelors in criminology after having to write a semester long paper on the subject. It was a very rough time.
As someone who needed help (along with siblings), i encountered many versions of not helping. People who wanted to be the hero, but on their terms, so we never got the help.
People who strongly suspected, but didn't feel the authority to act because they were in college, and the adults in the house did nothing.
Adults who knew, but felt they could guide through spiritual strength.
Adults who knew some, but had their own parent issues, so they felt I should get over each issue, instead of seeing the sum total of it all, amd being so aggressive about a suicide attempt with obvious fresh wounds that I lied, but the lie being so troubling someone should have been called.
Being told, but being told during prayer, so it "didn't count," because that meant it was in the hands of God.
Hearing a lot of things then slamming a door and complaining to others in the house about the constant screaming they heard in our household.
Doctors commenting on bruises but never attempting to get us alone to ask.
Being asked for an std test while a parent was out for a moment for a secret std test for sexual assault, but not asking anything about who did it.
The way we were kept from getting out on our own was extremely complicated. But a lot of people knew. And I knew why they did nothing. I know that many others knew as well, but they never told me why they did nothing.
I hope things are better for you now ♡
@@legoqueen2445 thanks
@@darkermatter125.35 I'm so glad to hear you've been able to do that ❤️
Hello Angus,
the decision to not tell the name of W was the best move I ever encountered on a true crime show!!! Yes you described the torture, but naming Sylvia but not the attackers made it so much better. In my mind she was the (only) human in that story being attacked by non-human predators. And while in the beginning there was a bit of curiosity for their names it vanished into sadness for Sylvia and anger against those attackers.
I really hope you´ll write more for Simon, that was an incredible manuscript!
"She was jailed for shoplifting out of desperation, not for kicks" welcome to america, simon. 😔
After I had children, there were certain things that were so difficult to do as an RN. It's stayed with me my entire life. I appreciate your nightmare feelings, Simon.
This story will always be one of the ones that really upsets me. So unnecessary and tragic. 😢 Another one you should check out is the abuse done by Eunice Spry to her two foster children, Victoria & Chris. It’s mind blowing and so very sad. They both went on to write books that detail what they went through. Their story has always stuck with me and I think of it from time to time. Sadly I just learned that Victoria took her own life in 2020 and I’m shook. She seemed to be doing so well as an adult. I’d love for you to cover their story!
I read the book “The Basement” when I was in high school and 40 years later it has never left me.
Simon, I'm sorry....as much as I adore you and Jen, all of your writers, and hearing how it's going with your family, I'm gonna have to sit this one out. I remember hearing this case for the very first time and was beyond disturbed. "V.W."-that monster didn't even deserve initials...
Few cases stay in my nightmares...this is just one of them. (Only made it about ten minutes into the video.)
May this find you well and I'll catch the next upload.
I was about to comment the same thing. This ia not a story i (or anyone i know) can hear more than once but i think it's so important to talk about it so we can avoid situations like this in the future.
I am a bit annoyed also by just how many of episodes of CC I have to skip lately as they turn more and more into gore fests. I don't need those details, they don't drive the investigation further, they are just... there. Compare it to early episodes, which did cover a lot of brutality too, but it all lead together, it unviled the story and mystery, and this is turning more and more towards the every-podcast-gore-show.
@@Puciek I would have to disagree. The stories remain factual and avoid most of the gore. There's so many details that Simon and his team avoid to specifically avoid gore porn. Some stories are fucked up, like this one. It's seriously fucked up. But I guarantee you most of the seriously fucked up shit was omitted. And there was like 5 content warnings.
True crime is never going to be pretty.
@@adriandavies4787 yes. You're definitely right. Maybe the guy you replied to actually skipped the videos, because if he had watched. He would know they do their best to avoid that.
I completely understand your sentiment, but I feel you'd appreciate that the initials given weren't a name, but the moniker "Violent Witch", which the writer reveals later in the video. Just so you know that they're not even giving subtle hints to who the monster is.
I just.... there's no words is there?!! I can't fathom how someone can be this mental!! This poor, poor girl. Its just unimaginable. I hope Sylvia found peace, where ever that may be . RIP
As someone who has experienced physical and neglectful abuse before, this is the pulling of a scab on an old wound. The most painful thing about these things is how close to home these things can be. Simon is absolutely right about reaching out when someone calls for help. Thank you for sharing Simon.
I just want to say thank you to you and everyone behind The Casual Criminalist.
I enjoy watching these things and on a non-professional level I am interested in human behaviour and learning about these things and the reasoning behind such behaviours. But I am so grateful that I only get this much of details and don't have to dive down those dark rabbit holes to find out all the horrible information behind these terrible things.
So again Thank You
Even though I already knew this story, and even saw a movie based on it, I still cried watching this.
Me as I quickly realized EXACTLY what case you were covering: "Oh no..."
This was a really hard one for me to watch. I first heard about this case after watching Jack Ketchum's The Girl Next Door and learning that the film was based on true events. It's such a tragedy, what happened to that poor girl... Thank you, Casual Criminalist team, for sharing her story with everyone. She deserves to be remembered for her bravery, resilience and kind heart.
I love this channel but this episode I can’t handle. I’ve heard the story once before years ago and as soon as I heard VW and took another look at the name and picture I realized who this is about. Posting a comment. Liking the video and changing. RIP to Sylvia
Simon, the fact that this story upset you as much as it did gives you much credit as a person. Only a sick individual would not be upset by this.
Ohhh, poor Simon. I read about this case. It's absolutely horrible. Like really, really cruel.😔
This shook me, it makes the holocaust sound tame, and thats not a statement said lightly in any contex.
Don't ever watch the movie about it. I did once and I regret it..
@@vonniedemers5683 Same here. I wish I had never seen the movie. I had to write a paper on this case when I studied CJ for a time and it wrecked me for a while. I've barely started the video because IDK if I'll be able to get through it. I really hoped that Simon wouldn't cover this case, dor his sake. I know the Hello Kitty murder was really hard on him and the Pedro Lopez case still haunts him, so I hoped this and similar cases wouldn't be covered because they are so devastating because I worry. I hope Simon never covers the Junko Furuta case.
Thank you Simon for telling this story. It's sad that in some cases the community ignore the abuse of a child. We all need to be vigilant and report any concerns to the authorities.
I have a relative that worked at a school where a teen boy told her his father would beat him for failing a test. He seemed very serious and worried, so my relative reported like she's required to. The father later came to her and thanked her. The teen was in trouble, but wasn't beaten or anything. The father though was grateful that someone took it seriously and reported it appropriately. Good people often don't mind if you report something just in case.
Thank you Simon and your staff for the respect you all showed to Silva. What that poor girl went through was sickening.
I encourage everyone to hug and kiss someone dear to them. We must never take what we have for granted.
Simon and all your staff - I obviously don't know any of you personally, but please take care of yourselves. It's not a sign of weakness to talk to a professional
Thank you for covering this in your respectful and educated manner. I think all the long time fans understand that these stories are quite difficult for you to present to us, being a father yourself and we appreciate and thank you and angus for respecting Sylvia in more of a way then she was afforded in the last few horrible days of this sweet girls life.
Here to join the crew who felt sorry for Simon when they read the title.
Normally I'm totally fine listening to these stories but this one brought tears to my eyes.
This is one of 2 cases I actively avoid listening about ever since I first came across it, so here's a comment from me, and I'm gonna catch you on the next vid!
Is the other one the Japanese girl that a very similar thing happened to? Both cases made me despair for what humans are capable of.
@@zotha No, the James Bulger case is the other one... But the Japanese girl one is also pretty high up there on the list of "I want to live on an island by myself and never contact humans again"
Which other case are you referring to? I'm just curious, because there really aren't that many that are this level of horrific.
@@kristinradams7109 The James Bulger case. It's not "as horrific" (not that it should be compared, a toddler was murdered), but the court ruling made me so mad.
@@zotha that’s the only video I couldn’t stomach. I have a distinct feeling This might be the second video…
Angus: "I didn't say bitch because I don't want to get demonetized."
Simon: "she is an actual cartoon fucking villain." 😂
I've heard this story a bunch of times, but even still, thinking about this poor child's strength in the face of that living nightmare makes me tear up.
It's not enough to make up for it, but at the very least, Sylvia is resting now.
She deserved a chance. A future.
@@bergerallentoby Agreed. To paraphrase Simon: If you suspect something, say something.
I read a book about this case called Torture Mom. In it, it's explained that "VW" was buddy-buddy with the police because the husband, whose last name she used, was a police officer. In fact, if I remember correctly, the police were called to the house a few times before, but "VW" was always able to talk them out of actually investigating anything until Jenny got up the courage to speak up after Sylvia died. This is a haunting case. The way that beautiful girl, Sylvia Likens, was tortured always turns my stomach. She was a beautiful soul to the end, and she was mercifully taken, but still died too soon. She deserved to become an adult. I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing she'd never entered that hellish den of evil that was the "VW" house. Fantastic script, Angus!! Beautifully compassionate reading, Simon!!! And, of course, perfectly understated editing, Jen!!!
Heavy heavy stories, but you tell them with respect and gravity.