The Serapeum, Part I: Lost Ancient High Technology?
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- Is there evidence for ancient power tools at the Serapeum? Are the megalithic boxes in the underground catacombs remnants of an advanced civilization!?
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The Serapeum, Part II : Moving Megaliths | Ancient Presence
• Ancient Megalithic Sto...
The Serapeum, Part III: Historical Timeline Written In Stone | Ancient Presence
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0:00 Intro
3:35 Auguste Mariette's adventure
7:43 Megalithic sarcophagi
12:57 Christopher Dunn
16:25 Precision?
22:16 Stone cutting experiments
26:06 Tube drills, Petrie's core #7
30:00 Pounding stones
31:45 Polish, flatness, microns
37:36 Orthogonal alignments
39:11 Conclusions
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Part 1/2 - continued in a reply to this comment..
Interesting video - definitely some food for thought here. It's been several years now since I made my Serapeum videos, but I have some commentary. The discrepancies between Dunn's angular measurements and the ones shown here are curious - as he was using highly calibrated precision tools and is certainly qualified to use them. Digital protractors like those shown require calibration to use (unless you're doing carpentry) and I didn't see anything about that. Funnily enough, in order to calibrate them you need hard gages of the accuracy and type used by Dunn in his measurements - those that provided the measurements you're claiming superiority over. Also curiously, these measurements are in conflict with those obtained by other reasearchers (also using precision tools) like Ahmed Adly. I can't speak to the validity of the measurements shown in this video, but measuring outside angles of these boxes is meaningless, and only serves to back up what seems to be a pre-determined conclusion of 'inaccuracy.' Knowing the channel these measurements came from, I'm not surprised to see it - more on that later. In any case, measuring in this fashion (by anyone) is only getting results in very specific spots, in specific boxes.
That said, any effort to measure the degree of precision is a good thing, there's no such thing as 'absolute' precision (nor is it a claim I've ever made), it should always be a goal to find the specific degree of precision employed in any historical manufacturing technique. Ultimately these boxes need to be scanned with modern high definition LIDAR devices (something I continually call for), like that which Patrice Pouillard used to determine the precision of the Barabar caves in India. I tried to scan them on the last trip there, but the apple LIDAR lacks the resolution required and the boxes were just too damn shiny to get any decent results.
We know several of the boxes weren't finished. There's some with inside corners not finished or squared out, and we have a bunch of them in what seem to be various stages of manufacture - which is a mystery all on it own, how the hell were they working on these down here?? There are also a few (like the smaller granite box and the limestone one) that seem to have been created by entirely different and less precise methods, perhaps in different times. There's also plenty of evidence for renovation in the site and multiple periods of use here (the crappy writing, recycled old-kingdom slabs etc). The unfinished boxes show chisel marks, and I've not seen any saw cuts, but there is an odd signature on the bottom corner of the box with the writing. It's not a saw but I don't really know what to make of it. The polished surfaces have no tool signatures on them as far as I can tell, but some of the 'finished but not polished' surfaces (undersides of lids) do seem to have faint machining marks and lines. Also, the whole 'liquid polish' evidence (that I've found on multiple boxes in recent trips) in my videos is a mystery to me.
I don't think the discrepancies in angles means much to the manufacturing techniques used here anyway - if that's the degree of precision, then that's the degree of precision experimentalists should be trying to match. Although these numbers are clearly in dispute and we have work yet to do to define the degree of precision here, assuming the measurements shown are accurate, in my opinion it's still remarkably impressive work, and unlikely to have been repeated 25 times by hand, particularly when combined with the other evidence for advanced tools being used on the boxes. Have you looked into the box at Lahun? Personally I find the complex and compound surfaces like hedjets or ramses heads or cornice blocks (with their associated symmetry) to be far more convincing examples of precision than linear/square stuff anyway.
Regarding the surface roughness meter and flatness. Yes, it measures a small patch. So what? Doesn't change the validity of the result. Other than that, we have precision straight edges that show flatness to within their tolerances, which is very good. Then we've got examples of laser light playing over the whole surface (pretty flat), or the good old hand test (feels flat mang). Barring a proper scan of the boxes, those are the metrics we have. If you want to prove it can be done, go make a box, and test patches of it with a surface roughness meter, see if you can match the results in microns - at the same time as getting all the other aspects of the box right - like relative geometry, polishing the surface AND the dips with rocks and sand, matching inside corner radii, etc.
Shrug. People will do their research and believe what they will. Nothing about the past is definite when looking through the lens of millenia of civilizations, construction, destruction and re-use. While I'm certainly open to being convinced, given the huge list of contradictions in the mainstream story of history, along with the evidence coming from adjacent fields of science (genetics, younger dryas etc) that I know you guys are aware of, as well as the stonework examples, I do not think primitive methods can explain everything we see.
Either the dynastics did everything (very unlikely in my opinion, given the huge wealth of evidence to the contrary and the long list of contradictions) in which case we need to re-write history based on their advanced capabilities - or they didn't, someone else did, and the Dynastics inherited a whole lotta stuff (far more likely, in my opinion), and again, we need to re-write history. It's stupid that I have to say this all the time - but I am aware you can grind through stone with copper and abrasives, or with flint chisels and pounding stones. A lot of people seem to think proving that these methods can remove a bit of stone somehow equals victory - which I find kinda weird. I've never said that it doesn't work, and no doubt lots and lots of stuff was done that way, and even more once they acquired iron in later stages of civilization. It's that those methods don't fit all the evidence we have, and those outliers are usually the things I focus on in my videos.
part 2/2
I do disagree that simple experiments showing a single aspect of the work are sufficient to explain the whole thing. Carving a very small inside corner is not the same thing as carving a box - it's miles from it. In my opinion we need to cater for the most difficult aspects of the problem, which might mean doing some of these things in combination with each other. I also disagree that the experiments shown here (by Stocks, or the swing saw stuff) either match ancient examples or come even remotely close to scaling to the volume of work we see. Abu sir blocks, Abu Rawash piece, the box in the kings chamber, overcuts at Karnak (not to mention the 8+" tube drill there), the list goes on and on.
I explore these topics, things like stone cutting, tube drills, scoop marks etc, and these experiments, in much more detail in my videos, and 10,000 word scripts probably exceed comment length on youtube, so I'm not going to repeat myself here. While I always take the time to say doing experiments is a good thing, I cover the same experiments you show here, including several examples of experimentalists deliberately ignoring things or flat out fabricating results. It's how we end up with tilted drill cores in textbooks, or the Penn State study in the 80's that both never mentioned the word 'spiral' and with their electron microscopy basically proved that grinding with copper tubes was NOT how it was done.
When it comes to this discussion, unfortunately some of the channels you mentioned here have not been able to be remotely civil in the past, in comments or discussions with me and others (as in, completely disrespectful, if not entirely unhinged) and routinely engage in logical fallacies like ad-hominems and strawmen (misrepresenting my position all the time - aliens spaceships in thumbnails with my face? C'mon now brah). They've also targeted Chris Dunn with similar disrespectful behavior, (and some entirely bogus claims) who certainly deserves better. Whether you agree with him or not, Dunn is someone who's actually published and spent decades of his life dedicated to investigating the engineering aspects of these topics and advancing our knowledge base considerably - all in an entirely scholarly and gentlemanly fashion, and he deserves more respect than he's been shown. I personally find the behavior of some of these channels entirely despicable (not you guys ancient presence, obviously) and am personally disappointed you're attaching credibility to people who routinely engage in this sort of behavior and method of argument - but to each their own, far be it for me to say how anyone can or can't make a youtube video. Given he (Dunn) is the one who's actually handled and tested core #7 I believe his work on this topic to be entirely conclusive. "That could be 4th dynasty, Denis," (as said by Lehner in the nova docs) isn't a convincing argument, and neither are dodgy angles, outside box measurements, or emotionally driven misrepresentation and adhominem attacks.
If you can't be civil or respectful, you certainly aren't going to get my time and attention, and I owe you neither. Civil discourse is the only way to advance our knowledge on these topics. So I've got no intent or interest in engaging with, or even naming these channels, and this here is all I'm (ever) going to say about it. Ahmed explained well in his comment. The same inability to remain civil applies to some of the people in this comment section it seems. Once again, we should ALL be calling on the authorities to allow more non destructive testing and measurements, of both tube drill holes, cores, and everything else. It's kinda ridiculous that the only example we can work from is one piece, that just happened to be in a museum outside of Egypt that allowed researchers to do some work with it.
One last element from the Serapeum specifically I wanted to comment on - the logistics of using capstans and pulleys etc to move the boxes. You'd think this would be a significant discovery, as to my knowledge there is zero evidence of the dynastic egyptians using techniques like this, anywhere, at all. It was all ropes, sleds and brute strength, maybe a lever or two. Let's just say I remain skeptical of these claims, given the location, and relative tunnel width to some of the larger boxes. You can make computer models show you just about anything (flinging rockets into space via a giant vaccuum centrifuge, anyone?) and I don't think this model explains some of the corner cases - for example the huge big black granodiorite box in the closed off area that I show in my videos. It's at the end of a corridor, tucked into a corner alcove, with no room for pillars or pulleys or what not - and it has its (massive) lid on top. It seems far more likely that any pulleys, capstans or the like were from whoever opened the boxes in antiquity - someone did. You also mentioned some of the unknowns that play into this, like how the tunnels were lit - a real mystery.
Again, all that said, I like the approach and attempts at solving the problem. As long as experiments are done without a pre-conceived conclusion in mind, and are conducted somewhat transparently, they are a good thing. Unfortunately, this isn't always the case. I'm not an experimentalist, I'm not claiming I know how it was done. The burden of proof isn't on me - it's on those who claim they do know how it was done. Mostly my work is sharing why I'm not convinced by such claims, why they don't explain some examples, and why other possible solutions better fit the evidence, and exploring and reporting on those who have dug into the topic over the years. As I've said before, none of this is certain, and maybe it never will be, but I do think we (specifically the authorities and institutions) can and should be doing a WHOLE lot more to find out.
Ok, im sure there's going to be some triggering in here as a response, I'm not going to make it my life's mission to respond to all the inevitable tit-for-tat and whataboutisms replying to this comment. I've said my piece here in this comment, more detail on my reasoning can be found in my videos. If I ever get this damn book written I can take the time to address a lot of this with more detail - as I believe it will be in certain other upcoming publications. Milo and Casey (sorry for getting your name wrong mate), I hope you can keep some of the, uh, enthusiastic commenters civil here, if nothing else. It's an interesting video, and food for thought. Maybe it's time i revisited the serapeum again, as i said it was 2019 when i made that series, and I've been back there several times since.
Cheers,
Ben - UnchartedX
Hey Ben! Milo here 😃 Thank you very much for your well thought out, respectful comment 🙏 We appreciate you taking to the time to respond in such an in-depth, friendly manner. We weren’t sure if you would watch this video or not, so I’m glad we’re sitting here having this conversation.
First of all, Casey (not Cody) and I completely agree with you on the manner in which the other channels have chosen to address your work. It’s something that doesn’t sit well with us at all, when people treat each other with outright disrespect and rudeness. We’re loving people, who believe that communicating peacefully and respectfully is a huge priority in making the world a better place and moves this type of conversation forward in a healthy and productive manner.
Casey and I had actually spoken awhile ago about commenting in this RUclips video on how we don’t appreciate the mocking behavior from the channels we exhibited, but honestly, we forgot to put it in there and now we realize we should’ve done that. After so many weeks of hard work and focus on just trying to finally publish this huge project that we’d been working on for a long time, we felt full to the brim on what else could fit in there. In our Serapeum Part II video, we’ll express how we feel about this. Thank you for your feedback on that matter.
Although these other channels have been rude, we still feel that their stone cutting experiments and research into ancient civilizations are extremely valuable and we have definitely learned a lot from their work, which is why we chose to showcase it. Taking the time to experiment in primitive stone cutting is an admirable endeavor, and we feel their results show that there is no need to invoke advanced machinery to explain the ancient stone artifacts in places like Egypt.
It would be nice to see communication between these 2 “sides” of this debate, in a friendly manner, and our idea all along has been to try and bridge the gap. It’s unfortunate and less productive if the 2 sides don’t have any direct communication, but I understand your reasoning as to why you don’t wish to be in contact with them, after the disrespectful ways they’ve spoken about you and your work. I still think it would be pretty darn cool to do a podcast livestream debate about lost technology, with our channel acting as friendly mediators to avoid unpleasantness.
We agree that Christopher Dunn also deserves respect, as he has decades of experience in his field and is a very intelligent person with a lot of insight to offer. We do our best to remain respectful towards all parties, expressing gratitude toward Dunn’s work as well as yours and others. We just feel that Dunn got it wrong in many aspects of his work. For example, core #7 appears to us to be just a standard, simple, primitive tube drill core that does not exhibit signs of advanced machining. Scientists Against Myths’ tube drill (did you watch their video?) looks much cleaner, more uniform, with more “spiral” and continuous grooves, when compared side by side with core #7. When I see the two of them next to each other, in high resolution photos and video, I don’t see how it can be claimed that core #7 looks like it was made with advanced machinery. And how could this machinery drill into granite with a feed rate that was 500 TIMES MORE EFFICIENT than our modern machinery? That seems like much too big of a leap, in my eyes.
As for calibrating a digital angle finder, I believe that it is zeroed out when you close the device completely (correct me if I’m wrong). I’ve never used one, but I’ve heard SGD speak about zeroing them out this way, so I’m not sure about what you said about calibrating them with precision gauges.
I also wish that the Egyptian authorities would fund the research to scan the boxes with lidar in order to determine their exact precision on a micro and macro scale, but it’s likely that this won’t ever happen. It would be expensive and I don’t think this is a priority for the department of antiquities. The other alternative studies that have been done on the boxes show that they really weren’t made to super quality levels of precision, so I don’t really think it’s necessary to use lidar, although I would sure LOVE to see it done.
You’ve mentioned that experimentalists should go make an entire box, but this request is entirely unreasonable, as it would require a fortune to fund the project. Excavating the single piece of stone, putting in all of the working hours, grinding away slowly for several years, hiring a team of workers… it’s just not going to happen. It would be an enormous project. All we have to go by are smaller experiments, showing the step by step production techniques. In my eyes, this is a valid methodology to reproduce the different components on smaller scales.
We’ve done the deep dive into the works of Auguste Mariette, Heinrich Brugsch, Mohamed Ibrahim & David Rohl, Aidan Dodson, Batticbombe Gunn, Jean Vercoutter etc., in which they’ve analyze the historical evidence written in stone that details the entire timeline of the Serapeum, apis by apis, dynasty by dynasty, and it has become very clear to us that the Serapeum was made by the Egyptians. When one takes the time to really dig into the historical records and put it all into context, there’s basically no mystery that remains.
The 1,200+ stone stelae that Mariette found there has an enormous wealth of information about which years the bulls were buried, under the reign of which pharaoh, over a period of about 1/2 of the entire dynastic history of Egypt. This was one of the most valuable historical accounts ever discovered in Egypt. If you go through the Wikipedia page and click on the links and track down the books written about all of this historical information, and even translate sections of writings about specific stelae, you can verify all the information. This is what we did. We went deep down the rabbit hole and in parts 2 and 3 of this series, we’ll discuss it all thoroughly. Some stelae even tell of when the Egyptians extended the tunnel network that leads from the Lesser Gallery into the Greater Gallery, and which pharaoh did it. We can clearly trace this in timeline of new doorways being added over time, eventually leading to 4 different doorways/tunnel entrances that led underground.
Writings on other stelae, and on a granite box itself, state that the stone sarcophagi made of “costly stone” (granite, granodiorite etc.) was the first of its kind, which had never been done for an Apis Bull until the time of the Pharaoh Amasis. He had that written on his Apis’ box. Another stela documents the number of days and weeks it took them to excavate a new chamber and bring the box into it, and which bull was buried there in which year. When you look into the whole timeline of events written in stone, it’s very clear as to when all of the different chambers and boxes were added to the site, step by step.
Mariette found the 2 wooden winches (which we discussed withy you before) and the evidence of rollers, which were used to transport the sarcophagi through the tunnels, and Heinrich Brugsch wrote about “double rails” that were still clearly evidenced on the floors of the main tunnel. So the transport of megaliths inside the tunnels is also not a mystery.
You said the site was renovated, but I think that’s a misunderstanding alongside the idea that the boxes were worked on and finished underground. I don’t think that they were worked on underground, except the final box that was abandoned in the hallway. The reason it was abandoned and only roughly worked was because it was the final Apis that was to be buried, right as the famous Pharaoh Cleopatra commit suicide and the Romans took over Egypt. This was a time of great turmoil as Dynastic Egypt officially met its demise, and this last box was the final effort to bury a bull before Egypt fell. The final empty chamber was hastily excavated off kilter from the other chambers and the box was then left in the hallway, unfinished, as the site was eventually left in ruins.
Other than this box, there is no real evidence that we’ve seen to imply that the boxes were worked on underground. They were made over about a 600 year period, with an increasing degree of quality, under different circumstances, and it’s clear as to which apis was buried in each chamber and under which pharaoh.
As for lighting, there are so many examples of tombs in ancient Egypt, like in the Valley of the Kings for example, where no soot marks were left on the walls or ceilings and the artwork remains pristine. It is well known that they used a mixture of castor oil and natron, as well as sesame oil, olive oil and other clean burning fuels that produced a smokeless flame, so that while doing to finishing touches on tomb paintings, that did not damage the sacred art.
Anyways, there’s so much to discuss and this comment is already long enough. We could go back and forth about every single detail, but that would take forever. We’re happy you replied and said your piece, and thank you for hearing us out. We’re open to keeping this conversation open with you as time goes on, as it is indeed healthy for us to all challenge our ideas on these matters and we can all learn and grow together. There’s so much to learn and when we remain civil and respectful, we can all keep this conversation moving forward in a progressive and productive manner. I’m happy to hear that you’re writing a book, sounds like a gigantic undertaking.
If you ever want to do another podcast with us, we’d love to chat with you again. I would also love to buy you lunch next time I come visit your neck of the woods, since you were so kind to treat me before. Thanks for your hard work and considerate comment. We wish you all the best, always, and look forward to next time we talk.
Cheers Ben,
Milo & Casey
@@unchartedxlive thanks for igniting the questions in people's minds who have been taught at school that we have the answers to ancient Egypt and never gave it another thought. It is a real shame that other channels are being so condescending and misrepresenting your ideas. I don't understand why they believe showing a particular method of cutting stone is possible proves this is how the original work was done and gives them the right to judge others for questioning. I am not talking personally about this channel, they seem like very open minded and respectful people. They have presented experiments showing a possible method for working the stone with materials found in the archaeological record. Although some of the tools have not been found described in these methods that could easily be explained by later cultures reusing the metals for their own weapons and tools. Even more 'advanced' metal tools would have seen the same fate. You would need a undiscovered chamber with tools and discriptions of construction methods sealed by the first builders to have undisputed answers. We must think, are the timelines for construction of sites and these incredibly slow stoneworking methods plausable? If you counted every stone block required for construction of every site above and below ground attributed to the Eygptians, would these methods hold up or would some sites need to be pushed back to a time before. Could these methods just be the best solution that later cultures discovered to best mimic the original structures? No one should be so sure of themselves and be arrogant when looking so far back in time that the questions are answered without a doubt.
I have seen world of antiquity use methods to set you up and try to make your ideas look stupid to his audience. You talk about the anomaly of older structures being more advanced than sites dates later - He uses this but spins it by showing a graph of standard progression of time and saying Ben believes the opposite, civilisations start of advanced and then get less advanced. He sets this up at the start of the video to get the audience against you and doesn't represent your argument correctly. I tried to call him out on it saying this why there is an anomaly as it doesn't fit standard progression. He just said it's rediculus to think the older sites have more advanced work, it's not true and there is no evidence.
I noticed a bunch of comments by people saying they can't beleive Ben tricked them for so long which I disagree with. You haven't tricked anyone but opened there minds to question. They have eaten up the videos showing 'primative' methods of working the stone's and think everything is solved. Just because you can create similar marks in the stone doesn't mean thats the method used by the original builders. It's great experimentation to show possible answers and is very valuble but this doesn't mean case closed lets go and ridicule anyone who still thinks there is more to the story. Keep up the great work Ben, dont let anyone get you down. To this channel keep up the great work and attitude. Cheers
@@unchartedxlive That's quite a long response but it avoids the elephant in the room:
1) presenting repeatedly (up to the present) false information on your channel. Even in this comment you pretend a plethora of evidence for high tech (which you don't cite at all), which is a false claims. Pretty much all "evidence" you evoked, has been debunked.
2) running away from all debates, despite claiming the case "for rewriting history". A case which cannot survive debate or scrutiny is not a good case is it?
3) constantly banning all people able to debunk the false information you claim. Politeness has nothing to do with it, as you will ban even the most polite people who will point out the massive flaws in your videos. This, combined with point 1) means not only you are against freedom of speech, but against science itself...
More and more people are seeing who you really are Ben and it's glorious ;)
Very honest approach guys, the conversation is as important as the conclusion imo, there are times when I believe we write off the ancient people’s as simplistic and incapable, for sure anyone who can build the great pyramid must have been technical, skilled, intelligent and with immense resource whenever they existed, the references to ancient powered manufacturing devices reminds me of a book I once had called engineering in the ancient world, fascinating.
More guesswork and crude craftmanship, just like the Scientists Against Myths fools* (why not TECHNOLOGISTS Against Myths?). Are *all* of the tools that constructed the Notre Dame Cathedral still in existence, or would these fools have to employ guesswork and sh1te craftsmanship, to boot? 'Near enough' isn't good enough in the real world of Engineering. *Stick to your day job.
Finally, non sensationalistic research. Nice work. What I'd give to see the ancient Egyptians at work
You mean 'Ancient Egyptians?'
As an Egyptian, Egyptologist and a Tour guide here in Egypt...I thank you and your team from the bottom of my heart ❤❤❤❤
❤
29:30 You could argue that it isn’t true that we don’t spend that much time on things. The average movie takes 1-2 years to finish, nobody bats an eye at that. Each version of GTA takes about 5 years to create. The Simpson has been in creation for 34 years.The Large Hadron Collider was built in 10 years. 1 year on a big project is completely ordinary, we just don’t make stone boxes by hand these days.
Bens latest vid on uncharted x shows metrological and mathematical measurements on a granite jar , I would love you to debunk that 1 😂😂I won’t hold my breath however
omg thank u guys much for this indepth intro to the site !! milo & casey, im really enjoying your sound and levelheaded approach, summarizing & contributing to the whole "cut marks" / stone carving debate... amazing work !!! refreshing!
Marcosaannnn!!! Thanks for the love brother 🙏 Glad you’re enjoying our content, this was a mamajam of a video to make. The idea of lost high technology is so fascinating, but when you look into it deeper, the theory doesn’t hold up. Big hugs my friend. I look forward to jamming with you again hopefully soon ❤️
Overall one can see these kinds of very precise and oddly smooth and polished (not saying flat) surfaces. Not one inside corner seems to be visibly faulty to the eye, which is even more confusing. The amount of labour required to get these kinds of high standard inside corners seems very disproportionate to the desired results - i.e. closing the lid forever after burying a bull. For every finished box imagine the failed attempts, those are 30-80 ton boxes after all. It could all be over with a faulty strike of a hammer. But you do not see one broken off/plastered over inside corner. Seems a bit odd.
Measures of granite work from "Scientist against Myth" are all made with modern machines, and all has these measures :
90.35, 90.55, 90.00, 90.1, and 90.05
All are machined, and all are not precise except one, so why are you arguing against Serapeum when it is 89.5, or 90.6, or 89.9
Were Ancient Egyptians using Modern Russian imprecise Machines ? :D
This channel needs way more views then it’s getting this is top quality
We’re gettin there slowly slowly 😁
Than*
Internal corners of the boxes,where three faces intersect,that’s always puzzled me, not impossible,but pretty tricky
I want to see dovetail joints when they talk the impressive.
Hi guys. I’ve only just found your channel today. I can’t believe I haven’t came across it before now. So I’m watching these for the first time now- absolutely brilliant work. I love how honest you have been about the ancient technology etc just not holding water at all. I’m really enjoying your comment sections too lol. Good work guys. Very good. 👍🇬🇧Brian.
Thanks man, you’re the greatest 😁 I’m glad you found us and value our work. Enjoy the videos and see you in the comments sections 🙏 cheers!
Excellent video. Looking forward to seeing more videos from you guys. Best wishes from Austria :)
So how long it is estimated to finish one box? Also do you have an explanation on how they navigated 70 ton box in those tight corridors?
Lol…. Did you watch the video? We talk about both of those things.
I watched the video, you talked about making holes (in 18 months i believe), that’s not a finished product or is it?
Obviously I’m commenting on this video so I didn’t see the other one about moving them, you could just point me to the video as your comment doesn’t really help.
@@amgadmuhammad2958 Is it really that difficult to to check this channel's video collection and find the second part of this 3 part series?
We didnt mean to come off as condescending - sorry about that - we just answer how long it would take in this video. Moving them can be seen in our second video on the serapeum, which we mention at the end of this video - this made it seem like you did not watch this video closely
@@Leeside999 Thanks for your suggestion. Perhaps it isn't too much to ask for a helpful link in reply to a genuine question, rather than assuming everyone's spare time is best spent perusing video collections. Efficient communication benefits us all. Enjoy the rest of your day!
Great video. Been going down a rabbit hole on all this stuff as find it fascinating, so loved this view and information on it.
Yay, I made it through all three parts! Thanks a lots for this well-thought of series and especially for the huge list of your sources!
(copied from pt. III for the algorithm.)
This was superb, you guys covered every angle meticulously. I would like to add that there were more Serapeum than just these ones, Alexandria for example, and that the library of Alexandria was called a Mus-e-um which is of course where we get the name from. The Serapeum in Alexandria was also sacked and burned. The boxes are found in many places, there's at least one in the pyramid of Unas, and the infamous one dug up beneath a street in Alexandria where the internet world insisted we drink the red liquid contained within haha all this being said there is a much deeper mystery these were all linked to. I personally believe they were used to store scrolls, some people have suggested they were used to store seeds. Perhaps both in various locations. Thanks for a thoughtful morning guys
Wow, interesting…. Storing scrolls or seeds. There are still many unanswered questions for sure!
Thank you for watching, glad you enjoyed it ~
@@AncientPresence a fellow named Alex Mott, who is "LinkedIn" as an engineer, did a documentary series that was once on RUclips called Rethinking(Egypt, Peru, India, etc) and has since disappeared from the entire internet it seems, though the Egypt episode was still floating around somewhere. It is where I heard the seed bank idea proposed, and if you can find them I highly recommend a watch. In the Peru episode they mentioned a native story about a bird that uses a red leaf to soften stone and burrow into cliff walls, and just left you hanging with the mystery just like that lol
Awesome, thank you, we will do some digging and see what we find. Thanks for the info!
Hey guys. I was very lucky to get to go to Egypt and Greece for 6 months with a group of students that were studying Egyptian hieroglyphs. That was 40 years ago!! I am so impressed with your hard work as well as your conclusions. I haven't looked over all your videos yet so forgive me if you have addressed these issues. Have you done any studies on Indian temples and how they were made? There's a great channel for Praveen Mohar on RUclips and I haven't been able to figure out how any of these temples were created. Thrilled to have found your channel.
Hey 😃 Thanks for the nice comment. We're also glad you found our channel and that you enjoy our content. We don't have any videos on India, as we only want to make videos on places we've filmed ourselves. Praveen's channel is pretty trippy lol, he's a charismatic guy who promotes a whole lot of mystery. SGD Sacred Geometry Decoded has many videos on stone carving techniques and I think he mentions Indian temples some times. There's always a practical solution to what at first appears to be a mystery. We did a podcast with SGD and talked about that type of thing. The Occam's Razor approach seems to always work out... the least extraordinary explanation wins.
@@AncientPresence yes, I just found it . Thank you😊
India has the best ruins to me I don't know why people have such a hard time believing there was machines in the past
Really good video. I just saw your interview with Milano; also a really good interview and that’s how I found your channel. Nice nice
The smooth surfaces between the lid and box could make a nearly frictionless oil bearing. The lid could be drawn back and forth and a cutter on the lid could be machining some stone. The very heavy parts would not allow it to chatter. Perhaps guided by the angled bevels it would maintain a straight level cut. Supposedly the thing slopes a little in one direction. The lid runs downhill slightly giving help in one direction. A shaper is the modern equivalent.
Watching this soon. As soon as the kids are in bed. Just leaving a comment for the algorithm 👍
Awesome, we hope you enjoy it matt! Thank you
Thank you for all your work and due diligence. You opened my eyes to new theories and ancient technologies.. keep up the great work..
Amazing video. Main complaint is that you have to try and replicate full boxes. Because almost anything can be done at a small scale, the difficulty scales almost exponentially when going bigger or scaling at industrial production. For ex THE pyramid
Keep in mind, however, that some complaints are that certain things can't be done even at a small scale. No shortage of claims that you can't cut, shape, drill, or polish granite with copper or stone tools. Yet no shortage of videos showing it done. No shortage of complaints that you can't move large rocks with just human labor and wooden rollers. Yet you can see videos of this being done. Interesting thing about the pyramids is that most people agree that it is not somethng impossible to build and that there is plenty of evidence to indicate that they were built wih the known technology of the time. That would be different if there were pyramids that everyone agrees could not have been built with the technology of the time. For example, a pyramid 3 times as high as that of Khufu made primarily of perfectly cut and fitted 100 ton granite blocks would be something that most everyone would be extremely hard pressed to explain. Ditto for something like an obelisk that is triple the height and size of the largest one raised in Egypt. The fact that various ancient structures have particular size and height limitations that most people deem realistic are a strong argument for their being consturcted by the people we attribute them to and in the manners suggested by the evidence.
@@rockysexton8720 Mate, you need to replicate. You don’t do a small scale and then say yes, we can do this. The bigger work is the issue and reason for people questioning these things.
@@MrPlenty1 what a ridiculous claim. Why don't you try to build an Apple II computer from scratch. If you can't do it then it must be impossible right?
@@MrPlenty1 A common bedrock claim made by LAHT types is that you simply cannot work granite with copper or stone tools. An additional claim by some is that you cannot replicate something as basic as the #7 core with even modern technology. Small-scale experiments prove both wrong. If one can grasp that reality then you may not feel obligated to spend a fortune replicating a 65 ton sarcophagus or pyramid to appease those who think that it had to have been done with lasers or enormous machine powered circular saws that would cut thru granite like a hot knife thru butter.
The demand for replication is a two-way street. When is somebody gonna experiment with using their hypothesized LAHT to build a full-sized sarcophagus or pyramid and get it to operate as a power plant or whatever imagined purpose that they claim?
I’ve watched all three parts and thoroughly enjoyed it, so thank you. Do you what the translation of the hieroglyphs are on the three boxes? Cheers
Wow, guys! This was terrific! I really liked the content. Two quibbles:
On some shots of the folks using the digital instruments to measure angles where the lid meets the box, it appears that there is a gap between the lid and the rim of the box. This doesn't rule out what they have done, just means that measurement wasn't taken carefully, because whatever is holding the lid up might not be even all the way around.
Regarding the long thin cuts with curved ends, the experimenters are shown making shallow cuts. But on that outdoor flat slab with the curving "saw" marks, the depth of that cut looks like it would have been at least 50 cm or so. In order to reach the depth of cut, they would need a very tall blade, or perhaps a series of increasingly tall blades to cut that deep. The "scrap" edge of the stone could be broken off to expose the base of the cut, but then you have the problem of the blade or handle rubbing against the "good" side of the stone. A draw saw could accomplish the depth of the cut, but what would create the curve? My guess is that they might have had a flat round blade held vertically that was spun with a bow (like a bow drill, but on a horizontal axle) that was gradually lowered into the cut - a sort of human-powered circular saw.
Thanks for the nice comment!
Even if the lid has a gap, almost all of the vertical corners within the same single piece of stone gave them measures of imperfect angles. So whether or not the lid was appropriately measured doesn't exactly matter so much, because the other angles demonstrate that the box wasn't made to have perfect 90º angles.
Interesting thoughts about the human powered bow drill circular saw, that's a clever idea. I've contemplated this type of cut as well, taking note that a long flat saw like Denys Stock uses leaves a flat cut mark, and a small hand held copper saws like SGD and SAM use are way to small to cut very deep into a huge stone... and a half meter or one meter deep curved saw mark would require something different, yet similar to the ones they used. Maybe it was a very deep hand held copper saw, operated by one person. Who knows. Either way, conjuring up things like a 37 foot wide machine circular saw (Dunn) isn't necessary when a primitive saw of sorts could make the same cut mark.
Might not have been done with ancient high technology, but still a pretty damn good job for being done manually! Still quite amazing!
If you'd see ALL that was built over there in their complete context, you would see it differently.
Fantastic! thank you for your objective, even handed, level headed and respectful treatment of this subject. Excellent work!!!
Great video, learned a lot. Looking forward to new episodes
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching 🙏
You mentioned some tools could cut three eighths of an inch per hr, or about 4 inches per 12 hr day for most likely at least 2, and maybe 4 people. So per full 7 day week, 12 hrs per day, 2 or more people would not even cut a whole yard. A stone block has 6 sides. 6 weeks for a 3 foot cube to be cut by 2 or more people. In my mind this isn't adding up.
You also grew up in modern society where everything happens quickly and we’re impatient to achieve immediate results because of modern technology which has only existed for a tiny tiny fragment of the history of civilization over the past many thousands of years. Ancient people, basically for the entirety of history up until about yesterday, did things very slowly and they achieved absolutely incredible feats with patience and dedication. That adds up 😉
I’m glad you included the digital measuring readouts of the angles in response to Dunn’s work.
those digital tools suck,
@@blackgunsmatter664 compared to dunns completely wrong tool for the job?
Brilliant! This video is a valuable asset to furthering the discussion on this topic. A balanced and unbiased investigation. It deserves more eyeballs. Once again, guys, really well done! Looking forward to the rest of the series.
Thanks for the love Anyextee! The more we’ve researched this topic, the more we found simple answers that account for the many artifacts in Egypt that are often claimed could only be made using advanced technology. We’re following the evidence as unbiased as we can and it has lead us into a new understanding about ancient Egypt. We’re open to all possibilities, including no lost civilization in prehistory, even though that’s not very exciting lol.
@@AncientPresence Honest History. How exciting! lol
@@AncientPresencemaybe not precision but should show the 90° overlay on an 89.6° angle to show how close or far off it is.
To prove its possible for primitive tools you do need to create a whole serepeum box and its technical precision in full... by partially replicating it, its no different to someone from the future finding an old Mercedes and saying look we made some metal into the shapes of the bumper using primitive tools
That's a completely irrelevant comparison. Car with all it's mechanical parts is a tad bit different to a stone box, wouldn't you say? The problem with a full replica is that in the modern world we do not have the time or resources to dedicate that many man hours into making a replica, that is not even entirely necessary. Demonstrating techniques in smaller scale is enough in this scenario because it gives us sufficent information. If you can't put two and two together then that's on you
Well said hammasharha 👍 Making an entire sarcophagus would be unbelievably expensive, would require a group of people to dedicate months or years of their lives to to, is an extremely unreasonable request and is just not going to happen, plain and simple. We only need experiments that demonstrate the basic stone working principles required to make these boxes.
Remember, that the boxes are not even as precise as people have been led to believe they are. And polishing stone surfaces down to 1.5 microns flatness, measured by a surface roughness gauge, is no mystery. The Serapeum boxes are not space age precision. There's no need to replicate an entire sarcophagus.
@@AncientPresence You are unwittingly undermining your own hypothesis by admitting it's too difficult for anyone to ever replicate with the methods you are proposing...cognitive dissonance abounds! Fascinating
@@paultyler7535 Your last statement is completely ridiculous. The point we're making is that nobody has the FINANCIAL INTEREST to purchase an enormous block of granite that would cost at least hundreds of thousands of dollars and hire a team of workers to work for months and months and months carving it into a sarcophagus.
We didn't say it would be too difficult, but that it's entirely unreasonable to imagine that anyone will actually pursue this endeavor. It's absurd to make this request to youtubers like us to replicate a sarcophagus. Do you know any millionaires who want to fund this project? We don't.
@@AncientPresence The burden of proof is on the claimant. Your theory may be correct, im not even arguing it isn't. What I am saying however is that until you can replicate the results, its just a theory. Making a sharp angle as a one off experiment is not the same as producing the collective achievement of all the angles and precision found together and in the scale of the sereprum boxes. Hey I can get a brush and some paint and say look at me, with enough time and man hours I could replicate the sistine chappel
Great video. Seems to provide possible answers to many of the questions that others claim cannot be answered. The truth from this period may never be proved definitively, but this goes a long way toward helping.
Always good to keep an open mind of course, though.
This is a quote from master builder under Ptolemy II who built a Sarcophagus in serapeum
"I completed the construction in 6 months and 5 days I ordered the sarcophagus of the Apis and its lid to be moved into the burial chamber which took 1 month and 5 days On 7 days no work was being done, the remainder is 28 working days.[43]"
Great work so far on this, it's a practical approach to these sites and we should never assume things cannot be done by hand. Occam's Razor is often used when debunking a lot of LAHT and rightly so. SGD does great work and helped me understand a lot of what is stated as LAHT is simply not true.
However, I find there is a huge contradiction of employing this principle when it comes to how did ancient myths and stories across continents have so much in common.
Anyone who has read Hamlets Mill will understand just how many stories, myths and creation myths exist and how almost all of them have a lot in common.
When you employ Occam's Razor on that scenario the answer is there must have been a common source for the stories, myths, creation myths etc.
Very important work. Thanks guys!
I read the comments by UnchartedX. Nothing wrong with long comments. I personally disagree with most of Ben's opinions which has caused some friction between us. However, my main pet peeve is the LAHT assertion that they are absolved of all responsibility and that the burden of proof is on "those who say they know how". If a consensus is reached, and certain individuals decide to claim that they don't believe, then those individuals are expected to provide a data set to demonstrate their position. Visiting a site, taking a photo, and then saying "there is the evidence", is obviously not a supportable argument. I would love to see an 80 ton box get created today by using old methods. But I also understand that Elon Musk is not (so far) funding the project so it is ridiculous to keep using that statement unless Ben is willing to donate a whole bunch of cash and volunteer his muscles in support of a cause.
Well said. It’s unreasonable to put the burden of proof on others and remain free of responsibility to prove an extraordinary theory correct, only because Christopher Dunn did a bunch of work in this topic a long time ago. His work wasn’t conclusive, he said himself that it was a preliminary study. My hat is off to the people experimenting with primitive stone cutting techniques, but it’s not fair for the LAHT folks to keep moving the goal post every time that it’s proven that the work we see in places like the Serapeum can be done by hand. Of course nobody today will ever be able to afford making an entire sarcophagus, so if somebody says they won’t believe they were made by hand until they see experimentalists create an exact replica of a Serapeum sarcophagus by hand, that’s just ridiculous.
All sides of this debates suffer from the "prove me wrong" attitude. In science, there is no requirement to DISPROVE a hypothesis, meaning that the burden of proof does fall on the individual proposing a hypothesis. That said, I find it very curious that NO ONE in the past 3000+ years has ever replicated a 1-piece granite box with copper chisels and dolerite pounders. I'm not talking about "calculating" how to do it. I'm talking about ACTUALLY doing it, even on a small scale. Actually, I'm not even sure how we could make such a thing with today's technology. If you (or anyone else) has any links to any videos that show how this is done, I would really appreciate it.
@@arashadjudani2478 Hi. I would say closer to 2000 years since a box was created but I know what you are saying. The fact is that making a granite box was always an expensive process and driven by religious beliefs. The Greeks and Romans created many other marvels in stone and didn't care to make the boxes. Same as today, we could make a box, but why? Consider the cost of raw material, shipping and logistics. Then decide on what level of tech you want to use. Modern methods would consume mega bucks to hire the machines and crew and old methods of copper hand drilling, flint tools, dolerite etc, would also eat away at a budget due to the required training and salary of the work crew who would be busy for many months.
@@Eyes_Open The "why" question is not really relevant. Why do people climb Mt. Everest? Why do they swim across the ocean ? Why do they run marathons? Etc., etc. My point is this: people invest all kinds of time and money (and sometimes risk their lives) if they feel passionate about certain things. For example, it would cost about $100,000 to prepare for an Everest expedition. You might ask "why" would someone pay that much money and spend months (if not years) preparing for such an endeavour. The same thing applies to granite boxes. Can you imagine being the first person in modern history to create a 1-piece granite box (even a small one) using copper chisels? What an amazing honour that would be. And I am willing to bet that there are stone masons out there who would want nothing more than to be the first person to accomplish this amazing feat. Surely it can't be THAT expensive to find a lump of rock (say, the size of a large pillow) and carve a 1-piece box from it. A mason could do it as a side hobby. Yet NO ONE has. Why not?? Anyway, apparently this is how to make a 1-piece wooden box, and I would love to see someone do the same thing (same size) out of stone with dolerite/copper tools. And until someone does, the rules of the scientific method dictate that such a task is not possible. ruclips.net/video/Qq69LAM1dlc/видео.html
@@arashadjudani2478 I see. I thought you wanted an 80 ton box. The next issue then is, as you say, "why or why not?" I have to disagree about whether there would be any pride involved in making a small box. Maybe yes or maybe no. All the ingredients have been demonstrated recently by Scientists Against Myths, Sacred Geometry Decoded and Mile Haduck Masonry. I mean the demonstrations of drilling by hand with copper alloy tube drill/abrasive, inside corners using flint tools, sawing with copper alloy saws, hand polishing with abrasive. Where is the advantage of completing a full box? It would still demand a lot of time. With the methods shown, you could make a box yourself. But as soon as you demonstrated the finished product, someone like the UnsupportedX channel would still say that you didn't create an 80 ton box even though Ben is never volunteering his time to help in the experiments.
That was thorough, thanks!
WOW!, im Incredably impressed, hats off to you guys, you've done a fantastic job debunking the masses of people trying sometimes to hard to prove that it couldn't be done by Egyptians, or the "was it done by aliens?" ect, lol, now you've just gotta workout the building method for the pyramids & you've sorted everything. Again fantastic stuff, luv ur work@
Great video. However the main problem with the copper pipes being used to drill holes is that how did the Egyptians make copper pipes. You can't just take a flat sheet of copper and bend it into a tube because how would you seal and reinforce where the edges meet. It would simply break apart. I would me more inclined to accept what the myth busters say if they had created their own copper tubes using ancient methods. There are many claims about Ancient Egyptians using copper tubes for plumbing but there are no pictures to support these claims. Finally, it must be stated that the archeological evidence does not support the claims for large copper tools being used to cut giant blocks. With the thousands of blocks being cut there should be at least some evidence.
Interesting thoughts. Small copper saws have been found, but it would be great to find a huge one that was used to cut large blocks. Copper would've been melted down and reused again and again, so it's not so likely we'll find a big saw blade.
They could clearly smelt copper, and iron later on, so I don't imagine making a pipe being a very hard thing to accomplish. They could use wood or clay to make a cast, and then pour the copper in to harden into a shape of a pipe.
In the Scientists Against Myths video that we showed, they used a flat sheet of copper and bent it around a big piece of wood to make a large "pipe" and their's worked just fine. It wouldn't necessarily come undone, because it's just grinding up against loose sand, not hard stone. So the wear and tear on the flat sheet of copper wouldn't be too harsh and you wouldn't need to seal it off where the edges meet.
@@AncientPresence Thanks for the feedback. What you say makes sense. Keep up the great work!
@@AncientPresencewell said, definitely the large copper saws have been melted and reproduced many many times till they discovered how to make saws from iron, then there was no need to cast any copper saw anymore, for an example, in my childhood in the sixties, we were using copper bowls and pots for cooking at homes, later in the seventies we have sold it to a scrap shop, those definitely become another copper products, not pots or bowls.
Nicely presented work to give credit where credit is due, but I'm crushed. I really want there to be more to the serapuem than being just a boring old bull burial catacomb. Im still holding out hope....
How did they cut and move monolithic blocks 500 miles to the pyramids and all the way to the top?
Great job !!!
pls tell me how they made the schist disc and the almost paper thin bowls, vases etc that in a lot of cases are perfectly symmetrical?
And how did they move 100 ton slabs in the confined spaces of the serapeum?
also are you suggesting they lapped the tops of the boxes in the serapeum and if so how did they manipulate the lids to do that?
pls answer
Please watch all 3 parts of the 3 part series and you’ll get answers 😉 that’s why we made 3 parts.
PS: the boxes are not 100 tons.
This video deserve a lot more attention, all 3 parts deserve it. They are very well put and extremely compelling.
I wish people like unchartedX or Brightinsight would actually link to these videos that show contrary evidence. Tell there audience that this is what the academics think and believe and here's there thoughts explained very well. Instead of continually pointing to Zahi Hawass and saying how much he's suppressing there ideas. If you want the Academics to accept and treat you like equals you have to treat them how you wish they treated you, even it takes 30 years to have an affect, its worth the friendly demeaner.
I have enjoyed both Uncharted X videos and Brightinsights for many years, they have interesting ideas and make high effort videos. I think there mostly wrong in there beliefs about Egypt's history but they are good people. However I continually find it disappointing how disrespectful they are to academics, not even on an academic level but on a personal human level. Its quite sad. A lot of work has gone into this field, it deserves appreciation.
Ancient Presence I thank you, this is a mighty fine job. I think its excellent!
Well said ☝️ I totally agree and thank you expressing these thoughts. Unfortunately there’s often a big divide between parties A and B because of negative human behavior towards one another, and this actually impedes academic progress because the 2 sides make enemies out of each other. Then they don’t end up communicating well or at all and I find this very unfortunate.
Our goal is to bridge that gap between the different opposing sides of the archeology community and get some really productive open dialogue flowing. When we treat everyone with kindness and respect, we can seek common ground and understanding and create a productive conversation, rather than clash heads and make enemies.
Glad you enjoyed this 3 part series, it should stand the test of time and only ripen with age. We also hope it spreads far and wide, slowly slowly…
Thanks for sharing the journey with us 🙏
Any thoughts on how they transported these boxes and put them in place? Impossible in that narrow underground place! True mysterie thank you for this upload 👍
We do have thoughts on that! Part 2 of this series is dedicated to just that! Stay tuned~
As mentioned in some of their other videos, the original excavation notes from the 1800s describe finding traces of wooden rollers as well as winches. Hundreds of Stella found in here describe somewhat moving these with around 30-40 men, which with the use of rollers and winches isn’t at all impossible, it’s probable and practical.
For many years I was intrigued by the ancient technology theory. I'm neither an archeologist nor a stone mason so I have to go by what other people present.
Thanks for putting this very well presented educational piece together. Especially the measurements and replication techniques are based. Can't really argue with that.
There's probably much left open for debate in both camps (I don't really have a dog in this fight, I just watch both sides), but this surely is very valuable information!
Thanks for the sweet comment 😃 glad you enjoy our content. You’ll definitely enjoy our parts II and III on the Serapeum also 🤙
@@AncientPresence Haha... I mean it! For years I have underestimated what IS possible with rudimentary tools. Your documentary really lifts a veil. Gonna watch the other episodes for sure.
Also thanks to you, I fell in love with the work Olga does. Pretty amazing to see with my own eyes what a skilled craftsman can do to a piece of rock.
Hi! I am actualy involved on a research that crossroads with your Serapeum series ( yes I saw all the 3 episodes.). I deeply appreciate the intelectual attitude behind. Both the thought process and sharing the sources. I take this opportunity to ask your help about the sarcophagi measurements and proportions. And if you know anything about the Egyptian scale systems, and shape desigtn for medium size objects. So many more questions but I will stop here. Thank you. Júlio
Love the savage beat down of the "perfect angle" narrative!
Love the honesty, and integrity in your research! Definitely the best documentary I've watched on the subject. Can't wait to dig into more of your work.
Looking fwd to parts 2+3.
This is some really great info. So glad to now be totally flummoxed, after so many years of certainty.
Id like to see you build a full size pyramid with the the underground chambers and caverns please.
I’d like to see a unicorn fly over a rainbow to bring me 10 billion dollars please.
Coming right up, bro.
I love how you guys follow the evidence and are willing to think critically about claims made by the alt-history crowd. Good job of playing the "peacemakers" between divergent points of view. I personally believe the UnsupportedX channel to be worthless. I'm sure Ben makes a lot of money peddling his grift. And more power to him. Funny that he felt the need to respond.
Time, dedicated resources, sheer will power, an understanding of the capabilities of your tools, and a true understanding of the goal to be achieved..
Thank you for your balanced presentation! I get so sick of hearing just the “space age perfect” narrative. Shout out to @SacredGeometryDecoded for their pioneering work here!
Glad you enjoyed the video! Yeah SGD’s work on this topic is fantastic and we’re happy to call him a friend. Thanks to his and others’ experiments, we can have a much better understanding about the capabilities of ancient stone working techniques. Many people shouting “space age precision” have never done any experiments, yet they’re so confident it “can’t be done” with primitive tools.
@@AncientPresence yes! So glad to have a clear thinking channel cover this. Such a breath of fresh air!
Yes but what about aliens? Ha ha ha
@@tonywybrow2767 Amen to your ha ha ha
nanoo nanoo 🖖
I actually believe more in "Ben's" assumptions but I can't refute this video and that alot of this can indeed be accomplished with a lot of devoted time and simple tools but I am more curious about the transportation of these massive multi-ton boxes, blocks etc. throughout the Egypt and other sites. Especially as it relates to the Serapeum given the tight spaces and very minimal clearance. Like the massive unfinished box in the passage not yet placed. There is hardly a foot of room on either side. Please show me a convincing argument for how they were all maneuvered into place. I look forward to more of your videos. Great work guys. 👍.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment! As for transportation, we’ll break that down thoroughly in part 2. In the mean time, there’s lots of info about that on the Wikipedia page, in plain sight. The methods of how they moved the boxes AND how they lowered them into their chambers has been well understood for 150+ years. But since Auguste Mariette’s original book on the Serapeum, written in French, doesn’t have a widespread version that was translated into English, most people have never heard that he found 2 wooden winches, traces of double rails and even lowered a box into a chamber himself by removing the sand beneath the box.
In the big list of links in the description, go find “The Serapeum Of Memphis” by Auguste Mariette and then search for “winch” and read all about it. No lost technology required. Just simple, ancient, primitive methods were all they needed to move the boxes down there 🤙
Thanks for the response! I actually did not know the info you've steered me towards regarding the transport was out there and had I known of August's account, I would have not hesitated to read it. French is my first language so no issue for me but I will definitely be checking all that out. Thanks again. Endlessly fascinated about what was accomplished in the distant past and how. Of course it seems you are as well and simple explanation or not, I am always in awe of these feats.
Totally. The ancients accomplished so many extraordinary things will always leave us in awe as well! Since you speak French, here’s Mariette’s original book! It’s a fascinating read 😉
archive.org/details/lesrapumdememph00marigoog
@@anthonyschumacher9925 the ancient high tech guys tend to leave out a LOT of information. Whether by ignorance or on purpose doesn’t matter, the information they leave out when learned tends to take away a lot of the mystery their narrative relies on. I was pretty firmly in camp “ancient high tech” until somewhat recently.
In an interview on this channel with Ben when August’s excavation notes are brought up, Ben has no idea they existed. This is supposedly his favorite Egypt location. This shows you the level of research they actually do.
@@AncientPresence I find it amazing that someone would presume to try to speak authoritatively about the Serapeum and pooh pooh the idea that Egyptians built their own things. But never bothered to read the original archaeology report. Language barrier is no excuse. With the money he makes from RUclips, tours, etc. I would think he could afford to have translation work done. But then again I'm guessing he doesn't do a lot of reading of archaeology reports in English either.
I’m asking this early in your video so I apologize if it’s answered later but where did the workers see with no light or breath that far underground while breaking and carving the passage ways?
I think that some of
boxes that have the pitted shallow holes on them that seem so out of place may in fact represent a spotted Apis bull buried in this single funerary coffin . It may have been painted white a pitted marks represent the black spots .
A must watch.
These boxes were found by the Egyptians as were most of the wonders you report on. They are clearly not made by hand with copper chisels. Ancient high technology is just that, ancient. So ancient that we have no idea how they were made or moved. When people compare them with tools that we might use, they immediately miss the point. Perhaps one day these secrets will be revealed, but until then I think the best answers are we have no idea how they were made, but we certainly know how they were not made.
Care to provide any rebuttals to what we presented? Like actual details that prove why they cannot be made by hand? Did you watch both videos we made on the serapeum?
Storage boxes for alien technologies. Possibly radio active powered tools for construction sites 🤔.
Very fascinating food for thought
So you’re telling me Ben has been lying to me.
Next please go to the ancient temples in India and explain how they made the detailed and intricate 3 dimensional carvings in stone, some only inches tall and the stones that have musical tones. Cuz I'm stumped. Thanks
These are newer buildings and don’t come into the “ancient technology” discussion that much for that reason. So I see no reason to go into that. It’s during the Iron Age, and India has been doing complex granite work ever since. Even recently, using the same methods. Check out some recent similar style temples they have built there as well as recent megalithic granite statues.
Hey great movie thank you,
Off topic do you think the great pyramid was buit to put one body in there or do you think it may have something more important to do?
The serapeum may be linked?
Great video, but...............i want to see them doing the box in the real size! Doing small things on granite seems pretty "easy". Once they take it out from the bed rock, transport, move, shape and place it...... i'll believe in them! I wonder how many injuries this workers use to have......Shoulders, hands and wrist must be destroyed after a day of work, can you imagine a month or so? I know it's just a theory, but i've been working on construction of buildings for 20 years now, and is pretty hard to believe on this theories...........
But nicce work man, i really enjoy your videos!
Ancient Egyptians we're masters at their craft, learned over thousands of years. Hard for many to fathom the time frame, thus the rush to come up with theories that it had to be done by some other or even more ancient civilization (which I find ridiculous). Great video and looking forward to seeing the rest of your video collection as I just came up on you recently. Cheers
I have no doubt that the Egyptians were incredibly skilled in many ways, but the truth is there are real anomalies that prove that the current mainstream narrative of Egypt's history just does not work.
"Masters of their craft, learned over thousands of years"
Yet Egyptian artifacts only worsen in quality of construction over time, with all of the most precise works being dated to predynastic Egypt...
Edit: I just wanted to add-
While there absolutely are the usual woo filled RUclips channels making all sorts of ancient aliens type claims about Egypt (and everything else), anyone actually serious about the Egyptian history and the problems with the mainstream narrative are not making claims of Egyptian artifacts being inhumanly perfect like many comments here are claiming...
Summing up all of the anti mainstream arguments as "ancient aliens" is just a way of hand waving away what can't be explained.
The so called Egyptians didn't even existed when the pyramids were built thousands of years before the great flood.
Why have they found sleds for the moving of stone slabs? If they had higher technology they wouldn’t need sleds.
The gap makes it more amazing… it’s a purposely cut curve not able to see from the naked eye… others have wear from years
Another comment, why is it that the surface of these boxes are finished with a mirror shine but the hiëroglyfs on it are not? I think these boxes were made by pre dynastic Egyptians because the topic of transporting these boxes into place is a true mysterie. They weigh too much to be manhandled in these underground, tight chambers
We show in this video how many of these boxes were made in the iron age and that copper tools can achieve what we see here. The scratched hieroglyphics are a mystery though, they definitely appear to be out of place on that box.
Not all the heiroglyphics on the box are done sketchy. Proponents of the ancient high tech theories like to show that one box over and over, and I’ve seen it in person myself. The hieroglyphics are definitely scratched in and look crappy. But there’s two other locations in here where a box and a lid have hieroglyphics and look far more professional. These too are writings dedicated to the apis bull.
As far as the polish, consider that you are talking about “why isn’t the indented writing highly polished”, well consider what they are likely using to polish these and then ask how you think they could get into small crevices of writing with it with ease.
in certain later periods of egyptian pharaonic rule it was common practice, to "steal" or reattribute older artifacts, statues of pharaos etc to newer ones - by adding or erasing inscriptions i.e. glyphs of ownership/who is represented/who patronized the artwork. rameses II was aparently very guilty of this. egyptologist sir flinders petri covered this extensively in some of his publications in ge 1860-70s (the tanis one ? or the fayub one?)
so old fine craftsmanship reapropriated with a scetchy quick raw set of glyphs qas common practice. aparently even from father pharao to son 🤣🤣 and most certainly with the infamous fake kuphu glyph in the giza pyramid. but that doesnt say anything avout ancient space civilization. we dont need to g back that far in time. but sure, thw possibility reclaiming buildigs that are WAY older can certainly be the case. savaging megalithic blocks for new.temples sure was convenient, in any culture. egyptian, roman, christian.. but what this practice rather speaks of to me, is the cultural and economic decline of egypt as a superpower in later dynasties... especially after the bronze age collapse / the sea people theory, around 1000bc. it speaks of very huma traits like envy, pride, lazyness 🤣 all in all just assumptions either or ✌️🤷🌞 cheers
@@marcochaiwallah811 why only claim one box then? Most boxes have nothing written. Only two do. One is done crappy. But the other is done beautifully. And besides the boxes themselves we have the Stella that go along with them and match the details on the box. The Stella of which there are over 1000 tell the entire history of the place. The argument for this place being older has literally no evidence backing the idea, not a shred.
@@Eye_of_Horus im trying to not mke wild conclusions, just saying what can explain crappy hieroglyphs in some cases. yet, if there is no "proof" of the boxes or chambers being of the same period of the rest of the site (thru inscriptions, quarell documentation, papyri of e.g.workers, overseers or priests, or documents about shipping stones, budget direction by the court etcetc), the hypothesis of reclamation of older stone material (boxes) for the purpose of burying anubis bulls could be taken into consideration as one scenario.
ive first heard of the site thru erich von daenikens wild guess narrative of genetic man-beast experiments in the 1990s, that claims there were crushed bull bones in cement on the sacpphogy, also having human bone material mixed in, i.e hybrid-beings like sphinxes etc should be taken as literal phenomen a of those days, engineered by ancient aliens. that is very creative thinking, but is very far from evidence (luckily?) 🤣
for sure there can be all kinds of hypothesis as why in this case the box had that engraving. unfinished work to be a nice inscription ? i guess a sloppy one cant be made into a nice one later if the details are too coarse/wide/incorrect already ? maybe the two were added later, in line / adding info to the existing ones ? reapropriation of more / all was planned but also not finished ? and the as of why, can have man storylines.. priests of later pharaos insisting on stopping the defamation, superstition keepib the workers from continuing ? running out of fund ? war interfering ? who knows ? anyhow, thx for the critical input @eye of horus. what is your take on the why ?
Have you been in the Osiris Shaft if you have can you make a video about it and the boxes
Excellent analysis. If non master craftsman can duplicate today, think about an Egyptian master craftsman could do quicker and better back then.
Great video
To somehow make some sense on all this evidence I truly believe you’d need to look into the Bucegi event in 2003.
thanks a lot, respected creators of this movie
good work
It was the dinosaurs, and now they’re hibernating under the pyramids. Explains the scoop marks at the obelisk in the ground
Finally someone figured it out! 🤩
The word scale comes to mind when hearing arguments from both points of view.
Live chats not working for me, but I need to know where that ancient psychedelic ditty during the intro came from lol
It’s a song from Casey’s original album, The Living Library 🎶 The link is in the description 😉
@@AncientPresence thank you!
copper saws cut 4mm per hour, there are 2.3 million blocks on the great pyramid alone. Egyptians never built any of this.
I know right!. Simple math proves these debunkers are clowns. But they still try. Bless their heart.
Chill. We can get along and disagree. The great pyramid is built of limestone - still an amazing feat - there is granite used in the “kings” chamber and the plug below the grand gallery. I am guessing the cutting rate you mention here is in granite? We dont claim to know how the gp was built - its a marvel of engineering and we have heard a lot of interesting things about it as well as explored its inner chambers. Our journey of research has led us here - if you have any excellent sources to share with all of us or have tidbits you would like to challenge ~ we welcome it - but calling us clowns and making condescending remarks doesnt exactly help anyone and makes you look like a mean spirited person that lacks an ability to interface in ways that are respectful and considerate.
The issue has always been population numbers, it is estimated that 5000 years ago the world population was somewhere between 14 to 100 million people.
The questions that need to be asked and answered are how large a population is needed to produce a labour force that could build a structure in a mans life time in order to bury him or her in said structure then multiply this over thousands of years as there are pyramids and equally massive structures all over the world ?
How many people would be needed to grow all the food and process it, how many to quarry and transport the stone, how many needed to fight in the armies of the time and all this must be measured in the life expectancy of this labour force taking into account that the more the skill needed the longer the apprenticeship.
There is something missing from the records that is not revealed to us.
Very interesting but…. Make a box after moving into a space with no lights. It is really cool that people are doing this by hand.
2 years pure box 24 boxes plus all the other artifacts these guys we’re building endlessly
Good job!..but you can't explain how it got those boxes Underground and you say they were for oxes?
Yes we can explain it and we did in part 2 of this 3 part series. Go ahead and watch the next 2 videos and you’ll learn a ton of epic info about the Serapeum!
Great channel!! I just found it. Thank you! True stuff and well done! SGD is a great channel too. I learned a lot.
Theres the same boxes founded in the osiris shaft at the giza plateau
the surface lapping of 3 stones can't be done in an enclosed box near the corners. id be curious to see if the surface roughness near the corners is similar to what they seem to measure in the middle
My guess would be probably not. The boxes haven’t been measured in depth to a very high standard. But if you watch parts II and III of this series, you’ll realize that the “precision” aspect of the Serapeum isn’t really that relevant compared to the historical records written on 7,000 artifacts that were found there in the 1800’s. That tells the real story of the site and it is absolutely fascinating. Enjoy.
Well done
Still not sold on the crummy hieroglyphs on the one box. I've got photos from the Cairo museum of a granite sarcophagus that has deep, stark, incredibly detailed hieroglyphs on it that to my untrained eyes looked like they were cut with a laser. If the boxes were done to the degree of precision that they were for the reason stated here, it seems to me that more attention could have been paid to the inscription. And this seems relevant also, didn't the dynastic Egyptians not even utilize the wheel? I get that's not relevant to transporting the stone, but it seems like one of the criticisms the "science" community has about the "lost civilization" community is that we think the dynastic Egyptians were just too stupid to be able to achieve these things, so we invent the lost civilization. But from my perspective, it seems like with the compound pulley systems, or the mechanised pull saw, or even the flywheel drill, wouldn't they have thought to put wheels on sleds? I mean I guess you could argue that sleds would be more efficient on sand, but it seems like they would have had avenues in their "city" areas that were at least compacted, or bedrock where the wheel would have been better. I have other examples of academic reasoning that make the dynastic's seem kind of stupid given to support their interpretation of something amazing the dynastic's supposedly did, but they're not relevant to this particular conversation. Also, where the Romans are concerned; I think you mentioned that stuff the Egyptians were doing were also utilized by the Romans? Have you been to the Roman crypt in Alexandria? It is far, FAR inferior to anything the Egyptians did both from an architectural and aesthetic perspective. The relief carvings in the tombs are obviously trying to copy the Egyptian stuff but not coming even close (people with dog and bird heads mostly) and while all of the enclosed (and some not enclosed) places I was at that were dynastic or pre dynastic were constructed specifically with acoustical enhancement in mind, the Roman stuff was like an acoustical desert or dead zone, almost to the point of being oppressive. Anyhoo, this is pretty long so I'll stop here but I really do appreciate your guys' work and am looking forward to part three.
The crummy hieroglyphs are a draft - that is to say, they are like an artists rough sketch on a canvas before the master inscribers come along and apply their fine work.
It's really refreshing to find that there are still reasonable, intelligent people out there that can respect art, craftsmanship and science that don't have to disrespect the people that came before us! Thanks guys. Good job!
considering this whole rabbit hole of ancient/pre-egyptian high civ - I think these granite sarcofagi were used by our predecesors to hibernate during the great flood and shaky times around it. they just slept it out in there, possibly with help of some equipment. also it seems there were quite a few of those placed on a specific magnetic circle around Earth. I wonder if all were unearthed... heck this is getting pretty occupying
Or you should watch this full 3 part series and learn all about the historical documents that the Egyptians left behind that chronicle the entire 1,300 year history of them creating every single burial in there.
@@AncientPresence yeah if I had eleven lifetimes
Those who seek truth make the time for it.
This is well within the capabilities of the dynastic Egyptians with the technologies we have in the records, we do not give them enough credit for their efforts .
We just did.
@@AncientPresence my comment was poorly worded for which I have edited. Cheers.
@@AncientPresence what you did here is present alternative theories- not facts.
as i stated in another comment-
'could' haves or 'could' have been done means you are only presenting alternative ideas - not actual facts.
the facts are in the granite boxes themselves.
when someone actually makes even 'one' of these heavy granite boxes by hand in their lifetime
and moves it underground without heavy duty lifting equipment
through a tunnel that is smaller than the box-
then i will believe that high tec tools were not used.
4 months for a small box. So the big boxes around 8 months.... Come on guys. And that smooth surface??
Also, the important thing is HOW they did for real...
Oh, 1 year and 10 months to hollow out one box.... Guys, why would they actually spend years to create those boxes? It does not make sense. Somebody had toosl/tech we do not know about. When you try to smooth over crazy lengths of time in this video it only becomes silly.
Ah, you are using the religion card on why they spend years with one box. Ptah was worth it you say. Easy way out if you ask me.
It seems far too easy for you to dismiss it in one swoop. Ancient people had different motivations, including religious beliefs they held most sacred. And up until recently, all ancient people for thousands and thousands of years worked slowly, using the tools available to them. Don’t forget that. It’s a very recent thing that we have expediency in our manufacturing processes. Of course ancient people would spend 2 years making the holy house of their god incarnate on earth.
@@AncientPresence why is it of course they would spend 12 years? That is just more soft words guys...
wow nice video
Omg. I think they are amazing for their age. They may have been more precise when made!
I absolutely love uncharted. But this is a good video making a great counter argument. It's just so hard to fathom that people would spend 9000+ hours carving a box... I am definitely going to try this with copper maybe bronze and pounding stones, rip wrists.
Thanks for the video.
(So is the writing on the outside of the boxes just vandalism?)
The writing on the boxes documents who made them and when. Watch parts II and III, we dive deep into that. Ancient people spend hundreds and thousands of hours making many of their most important artifacts. We just live in a high speed world, but for them it was normal to work slowly… all throughout history until very recently.
@Ancient Presence wow, okay I'll watch those videos too! Great content dudes!
Sent sgd a video on how to make a cheap measurement tool. Triangle piece of wood. Screw at each corner then a longer adjustable one in center. If is adjusted to just spin. Have to sand a little. Too much and the middle Screw will have a gap. Half a micron accuracy.
Lol half a micron with a few screws and a piece of wood?
@@AncientPresence yes the guy makes telescope lenses.
@@AncientPresence ruclips.net/video/Z0jCycLpXSM/видео.html
Firstly, I commend your work guys. Excellently researched. I actually hate to admit it as I too want to believe in the more far out theorys however your points and facts are very convincing. The only thing I don't really believe is that THAT amount of work and labor and difficulty would be undertaken just to bury some bulls. Highly regarded bulls or not I'm just not convinced on the real purpose or motivation for all that extremely difficult work.
Thanks for the kind comment 🙏 The Apis Bulls were extremely sacred to the ancient Egyptians, as they re-enacted the perpetual cycles of life and death as physical representations of their most important gods on earth. It makes perfect sense that they would go to extraordinary lengths to honor them, as they considered it paramount to ritually continue to feed the cycle of life with this degree of worship. We’ll explain more of this in part 3.
@@AncientPresence and thank you. I will definitely be eagerly anticipating and watching part three. I think you've sold me some more on reason. I do think it's really hard for people in our era to really get into the minds and motivations of those from a time and culture thousands of years before ours and what was singularly important to them. All so fascinating though! No matter what side your on, ancient high tech vs. simpler explanations. Fantastic accomplishments either way you slice it. Carry on with the great work guys and thanks for the response.
Awesome! 😃 Thank you for being open minded and willing to shift your perspective on things. We’ve definitely done a lot of that. Thanks for sharing the journey of discovery with us 🙏 cheers!
so much better (informative) than any of the smarmy academic ego debunking videos
Fun fact the circle of Greek dudes is supposedly where Alex Eder the great was first burried