I have both a Commision 88 and a Hanyang 88. Despite thinking that the rifles are essentially the same, the bolts are not infact, interchangeable. I discovered this when I had them both out and sitting next to each other. Being the curios fellow I am, I decided to see if the bolts were interchangeable. On first glance, they look exactly the same. The Hanyang bolt slipped easily into the receiver of the Commission rifle, but I could not fully close the bolt. On further inspection, the Hanyang bold is just a teensy tiny bit longer in the bolt head. I may be just not seeing correctly, however there is something different about the two bolts. However, you CAN put a Commission 88 bolt into a Hanyang 88 and fully close the bolt. It is probably extremely dangerous to attempt to fire the Hanyang in this configuration, as the chamber may not be fully closed and the headspace could be dangerously off and could cause a catestrophic failure of the rifle.
More training is never wrong. Even after leaving the Bundeswehr 13 years ago I am confident I still can assemble and disassemble the G36 without much problem. It just becomes a reflex at some point.
@@Jargolf86 Sitting in camp during an exercise with nothing to do gets soldiers bored and so we have to entertain ourselves. How? Just disassemble and reassemble our weapons in the most stupid ways we can think of. One handed, laying on the belly and keeping the parts off the ground was my favorite.
True but a privite in the heat of combat though? It's not that much of a leap to asume that they may forget to fully shut the bolt and fire just to get the round out or if the did close they would miss.
Mine is the same age and arsenal. I wonder if it was its time in the Turkish army that got it smoothed out. I'd be interested to know if yours went through a Turkish refurb as well
@@aarondevaldez9134 well, i wasn’t, i am well aware that later models had the problem fixed but the Ross rifle was made for around 5 years without this fix.
The clips are great and way better than being bored and falling asleep thru the longer version. You got to the point and explained it without all the minute details that are extremely boring.
Here's another factoid: the probably most famous user of a Gewehr 88 was the philosopher and Pour Le Merite-recipient Ernst Jünger. His rifle had the typical feeding issues as long as the lower dust cover was on the magazine. So he secretly took it off even though it was strictly forbidden. This is from his diary (not the memoir "Storms of Steel")
@@gleisbauer25 It's in "Kriegstagebuch 1914 - 1918", the full diary. The G88 is his first rifle. The moment, where he took the "verfluchten Kastenboden" ("damn dust cover") off his rifle is in "Heft 2 - 22", April 24th, 1915.
There was a measure added to the rear of the bolt to somewhat protect the shooter in case of gas coming backwards through the receiver. The square sticking out from the left of the bolt nut was the solution to my knowledge as the earlier bolt nuts where only round
Germany's Worst Rifle is actually a fair description and not click-bait, because it really was the only service rifle of the German state since the 1860s to have so many serious and even hazardous issues. Nothing comes close, despite the best efforts of the Internet to meme the G36 as hot-garbage.
@@Bojan_Kavedzic Not really service rifles, the G41s, but rather experimental weapons trialed in combat. The G88 was adopted and the only rifle for most of the Imperial German Army for a decade.
Why didn't the government ask Mauser if he had anything to bring to the table, anyway? It strikes me as one heck of an oversight to not ask the maker of your current service rifle what he thinks of this new smokeless malarkey.
Good question. I’d love to have some historical sources on that - but I could imagine it went something like: “We are Prussian officers, we know better than some Southern upstart.” “There is nothing a German officer cannot do.” (Gert Fröbe in _Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines)_
Perhaps it was a case of paranoia that the German government absolutely didn't want the French to know that they now had a small bore smokeless repeater gun. I would also hazard a guess that perhaps the arsenal staff figured that they could do better for one than a private company. No sources on that but it sounds realistic given what I know of the era.
How would we know they didn't? We are not party to everthing and everyone in history. And remember we are looking at this from a much different era of history and technology advances.
@@comiketiger Everything I've seen says that they didn't. I can only make guesses based on what I know. Otherwise the answer to literally every question about the past would be 'well, we don't know everything, therefore you can't ask that question.'
@@silubr1 : Don' forget, that in those days there had been three gouvernement owned weapon factorries in Prussia and as far as i know one in Bavaria. Perhaps the high command of german army thought, a selfconstructed rifle makes no problems with patents, licences and other cases of Paperwork, Law and money.
Wait a minute, isn't that how the Remington 700 works, and therefore thousands of other rifles with similar actions, that just push-feed right? Isn't this why when people are really serious, they want control round feed, they want a Mauser Claw? Because of this very thing, the boldface(bolt face, stupid voice translation) doesn't grab the round until you close the bolt.
Double-feeds are not a serious safety concern for most rifles. As far as I know, no modern military sniper uses controlled-feed bolt action (I did not check this but Ian said something about it being very rare. Maybe in the L96 video)
@@TheFanatical1 Yes, but snipers are highly trained specialized professionals. In the old days there were literally millions of clodhoppers using these guns.
@@browngreen933 I was just using it as an example of a contemporary bolt action. As the other commenter said, push-feed is very common on rifles that any fool can go out and buy.
@@TheFanatical1 True. And how many double feed blowups do you hear of? None. For the military, however, a double feed would take a soldier out of action until he could clear the chamber. I'll bet that was 99% of the issue, not safety and blowups.
The Gewehr 88 was my first military surplus rifle purchase, and I bought it because of C and R. It's a great rifle IMO after its various magazine and other upgrades. It shoots well and is a great piece of history. Now I have 13 other Mausers (two Swedish Mausers and a Gewehr 1898 being my favorites) and Enfields mounted along side it on the walls of my garage. And my wife really does NOT like to watch Othais and Mae!
H! The Duchy of Grand Elbonia needs your help. They've regained their independence after WW 1, but need to reequip their army. The Brown Bess muskets had proved inadequate. This being Elbonia, the new Minister of Defense is corrupt and has been bribed by an enemy to procure the worst assortment of small arms possible. He wants to purchase the worst rifle, carbine, and pistol possible. Both a revolver and automatic pistol are desired. The selection criteria of course include disparate ammo and perhaps a difficult to repair weapon. What weapons used in WW 1 should this fine fellow choose? His colleagues have little firearms familiarity beyond the Brown Bess, so he can get all but the most absurd guns past them.
1879 Reichsrevolver. Better to beat your enemy with. 1886 Lebel. No gate loading so it's single shots until a long enough break comes to be. The carbine version of this carries the same issues with the additional deficit of smaller ammo capacity.
@@LadyAnuB The Lebel can still be topped off at anytime, you just need to open the bolt first. As you would to top off every box magazine bolt action in service as well.
@@DAKOTA56777 You are forgetting one issue with bolt action tube loaders, live rounds will be chambered when closing the bolt. Of course it's Elbonia, that can be considered a feature. 😛
Ironically, that first problem is still probably the most common malfunction I've seen with the M16/M4/AR. If you ride the charging handle forward at all, the extractor won't pick up the cartridge and it won't fire. You can pull the charging handle back and slam another round into the back of the first one though. The fix was also the same: just train people not to do that. Technically, the forward assist will completely fix the problem if you know you did it, but as all the "gun experts" will tell you: the forward assist on an AR is utterly worthless and serves no purpose. I've never personally seen one fire out of battery from this in particular but I guarantee it could happen.
@@AnotherHistorianWargamer Yeah, I don't know how common that attitude is but both Ian of Forgotten Weapons and Karl of InRangeTV pretty endlessly bashed it as being totally functionless and no one disagreed despite the fact that in the same video (I think) Ian had exactly this malfunction and corrected it with the forward assist. I don't see eye to eye with them sometimes, like their review of the Taurus Curve. They took a gun thats supposed to be used at point blank range, in the dark (when most concealed carry incidents happen) and by someone with basically zero experience and used it in the full Arizona sun against competition pistol targets geared towards the absolute best shooters. Of course its going to suck. Its going to suck in exactly the same sense that my PVS-7 and IR laser would be useless in full sunlight. Anyway, rants over.
@@craigthemonke794 A tube mag only has a weak spring pushing on it, not someone slamming the rounds together with their full strength, like what could happen in this situation. I doubt it'd happen easily, sure, you will likely need to put a lot of umph into the bolt to hit it hard enough, but I can see it being possible.
The 8mm Mauser round concurrent with that rifle was a round nose as you'd find in tube fed rifles of the era. It's much blunter than the dummy rounds used in the video and blunter than the "S" cartridge that came along in 1903 which was also pretty blunt. So probably very unlikely to set off the round in front of it, though I'm sure if you jammed that bolt hard enough you might manage to stupid yourself out of a few fingers. Weirdly, I just learned this yesterday in a discussion about the famous Kodiak bear guide, Bill Pinnel. Pinnel preferred an 1888 Commission rifle (perhaps a carbine version) even though his heyday was in the 1940s/50s. I suspect he just trusted that big blunt early 225 grainer to give him all the penetration he needed.
No, or at least not without you having to very intentionally load the round without the bolt head (which also has the locking lugs) and which it’s pretty tough to keep the bolt together either.
I think its because the extractor and ejector would be on the wrong sides, theres a cutout for the extractor on the chamber end of the barrel inside the receiver...if the extractor isnt lined up with the cutout, it cant close.
To get the terminology right, small arms ammunition doesn't detonate, the propellant burns, the tiny amount of primary explosive in the primer does detonate though.
You have to wonder if Germany should have simply taken a bit more time to get this rifle out, and how it would have been different if they had done so; the Lebel, while a massive leap in terms of propellant, wasn’t that much better than the 71/84, and many countries took much longer to get a smokeless rifle out; I feel like the problems with extraction and double feeding were inherited from the 71/84, and the barrel bursting was a result of lack of testing and a rushed development, so it’s possible both could have been avoided by doing that; I also wonder how the later Mauser rifles might have differed, since they were largely developed out of spite from this gun, and the designs after the 1891 had features to counter the double feeding problem, so perhaps they might have gone a different direction there; moreover, the flawed barrel and bolt face were developed from the earlier Mausers, so perhaps they might have not corrected those issues until much later, and either in a way the commission came up with or in some completely different method, or possibly just what was done in our own time but further down the line. To be frank, Germany likely could have gotten by with a 71/84 using smokeless powder as a stopgap until they sorted out the flaws in this rifle, though it likely would have resulted in the same flaws we see here showing up on that rifle, but because they were so desperate to keep up with the French, they pushed this rifle out before it was quite ready, inadvertently screwing over (and possibly saving the name of) Paul Mauser (who may never have started his line of rifles had he been invited to work on this one), and ultimately pushing ahead arms development by several years as a result
It is less than twenty years after the Franco-Prussian War. Since then the French have rebuilt and they are still royally pissed off about their losses wanting revenge. Not being behind the French wasn't just a pride thing, there was a real possibility of a war at any time and that was only increased if the French believed they had a significant advantage in rifle technology. There were also various crises that nearly Brough Germany to war with Britain and the US in this time period.
General Boulanger, the leader of a significant political faction in France at the time, attempted a Trump-style coup d’état in 1889. One main goal of his supporters, the Boulangists, was _Revanche_ against Germany. Another war was a very real possibility in the 1880s.
One thing I’d like to bring up is that Germany had beat France with an inferior rifle before, as the Dreyse Rifle, which was vastly inferior to the French Chassepot, and Germany was in a very strong position in 1888, while France was undergoing scandals and political instability, meaning that while France might have wanted to go to war, they likely couldn’t have sustained such a war, and it probably would have gone much like the Franco Prussian War; that said, I really like hearing what you guys are saying, and it’s a lot of stuff I hadn’t thought of
@@eazy8579 Sure. But the expected gap between a black powder and smokeless powder rifle was expected to be enormous. Remember, they were expecting that soldiers with smokeless powder could effectively engage to distances beyond a kilometre. We are talking more like the Austro-Prussian War here. Plus, Germany just didn't want a war with France, they got what they wanted from France in 1871. So they don't want France thinking they have an advantage. Then you mention the political instability, it isn't unheard of to use a war to rally patriotic fervour around an unstable government. With hindsight we can say they should have taken more time, but the rush was a pretty rational decision at the time. Although they should have known enough to involve Mauser.
If you can find a reasonably priced copy, I recommend “A Collector's Guide to the German Gew. 88 ‘Commission’ Rifles and Carbines” by Paul S. Scarlata.
"if you don't put the bolt head back on then the gun can misfire" "The Mauser is a terrible gun because if you load it and point at your head and pull the trigger then you die"
I have to say, i collected old firearms, about 62 pieces and my g88/05 steyr made no turk stamps is the best rifle for me, smooth action, good weight, good sights...love it
Never understood why people buy surplus to try to make into some wacky sniper gun when cheap hunting rifles are like $200-300. Hell, doesn't Savage make a cheap .338 for $800?
Supposedly any small ring mauser pattern barrel will fit with slight modifications, according to the gunboard forums...id think given this actions inherent weakness, maybe a 7.62x39 would be a safer bet. Personally, ive got a hanyang junker id love to make a .22LR plinker out of...single shot, of course...but nobody makes the parts, and good gunsmiths are as hard to find as money these days.
It wouldn't because the G36 works and the heating issue they have was a misinterpretation of a report about them by a minister so they could justify buying new guns.
Yeah, id have to say its terrible. I have several. All of them have problems. The bolts are rarer than the rifles, and run about $300.00! Ejectors and extractors are unavailable. Dustcovers are rare and demand a premium. Mags wont swap between an 88 and 88/05 or 88/35 because the mag well hole in the stock has to be opened up for the taller walls on the 88/05/14/35 magazines. Not to mention the spring steel feed lip/ interruptor. My major issues are that my czech 1930s barrels are finicky on ammo- certain cases wont chamber fully. The rear sight slides are almost always missing and impossible to find. The extractor only pulls a spent case out 50% of the time, and the ejector only detaches the spent case from the bolt head face right on top of the magazines next round. And the rounds tip up after the bolt pushes them from under the feed lip/ interruptor, and they get stuck pointing up in the receiver bolt lug recesses....even if the rounds are, as Othias says," keep ' em to the back of the mag." Using a plate however to make it a single shot, it feeds and extracts fine. Id never use it in a war!
I don’t think they’re overly bashing them. The Reichsrevolver was pretty bad. The Gew 88 wasn’t terrible, but it was bad enough for Germany to replace after only a decade. It’s basically Germany’s equivalent to the US Krag in terms of service life.
Had a commission rifle when I was younger that was missing the bolt head I was going to shoot it but talked to older gun enthusiasts and he told me not to without that part
@@Chris_Garman I was 16 at the time and not fimilar with that type of gun I come from a muzzloader line of guns lucky I was smart enough to show it to someone
What sucks is that theres other guns derived from this design....and NONE of the other bolt heads swap. Theyre all different...viguero, belgian, romanian, etc
Yeah, these are barely issues. Loads of MODERN actions are push feed, have removable bolt heads and on almost all rifles you just have to steer the bolt in for it to snap behind the bolt stop. You're grasping here Othais.
I had an unconverted Gew 88 for a long time and I love how absolutely awful the rifle is, probably the worst design the Germans ever issued. It's funny too cause rifles like the Lebel 1886 and Schmidt-Rubin 1889 are from the same time period and are an order of magnitude more serviceable.
The 88 was never meant for idiots it's a service man's rifle built for the imperial German army a well-trained army not conscripts. I have had one for many years and never once had a problem with it . It's for better than the carcano !
I quite enjoy all the weird quirks of these early smokeless designs. Doesn’t mean I’d want to fight with them though.
But they do make for cool hunting and target rifles for sure
Absolutely. I do want a gewehr 88 quite badly. A man can dream…
Not all early rifles were bad. The 1891 Mauser is really quite good!
I mean they’d probably be easy to fight since they are inanimate.
I have both a Commision 88 and a Hanyang 88. Despite thinking that the rifles are essentially the same, the bolts are not infact, interchangeable.
I discovered this when I had them both out and sitting next to each other. Being the curios fellow I am, I decided to see if the bolts were interchangeable. On first glance, they look exactly the same. The Hanyang bolt slipped easily into the receiver of the Commission rifle, but I could not fully close the bolt. On further inspection, the Hanyang bold is just a teensy tiny bit longer in the bolt head. I may be just not seeing correctly, however there is something different about the two bolts.
However, you CAN put a Commission 88 bolt into a Hanyang 88 and fully close the bolt. It is probably extremely dangerous to attempt to fire the Hanyang in this configuration, as the chamber may not be fully closed and the headspace could be dangerously off and could cause a catestrophic failure of the rifle.
Quite interesting. These little discoveries are something I love about this channel. Thanks for sharing.
More training is never wrong. Even after leaving the Bundeswehr 13 years ago I am confident I still can assemble and disassemble the G36 without much problem. It just becomes a reflex at some point.
Me the same with G3, G36, P1 and P8.
MG3 too, as long as the Bolt Head isnt disassemled.
@@Jargolf86 Sitting in camp during an exercise with nothing to do gets soldiers bored and so we have to entertain ourselves. How? Just disassemble and reassemble our weapons in the most stupid ways we can think of. One handed, laying on the belly and keeping the parts off the ground was my favorite.
True but a privite in the heat of combat though? It's not that much of a leap to asume that they may forget to fully shut the bolt and fire just to get the round out or if the did close they would miss.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough No argument there. Just saying that more training to minimize the chance for such things to happen is never wrong.
"The bolt release is biased such that it will allow anything to enter from the rear...."
I knew a woman like that once.
ayo 💀
And I a young man; ... Wonder if they're related.
Edit: Ugh... I fubbed the punchline.
Everything reminds me of her
got a number?
I do love how silky my 1890 Spandau 88/05 is. Massive difference over a Mosin.
Mine is the same age and arsenal. I wonder if it was its time in the Turkish army that got it smoothed out. I'd be interested to know if yours went through a Turkish refurb as well
On the second issue, the Ross rifle now feels less of a trouble maker!
The later model Ross rifles were okay
Actually it’s worse given that the ross is 10+ years newer than the G88.
@@MaxwellAerialPhotography I was referring to the 1915 to 1917 batches in which the earlier teething troubles were ironed out.
@@aarondevaldez9134 well, i wasn’t, i am well aware that later models had the problem fixed but the Ross rifle was made for around 5 years without this fix.
People shit on the Ross way too much, its actually quite a neat rifle. Id take one of the mk 3s to war.
The clips are great and way better than being bored and falling asleep thru the longer version.
You got to the point and explained it without all the minute details that are extremely boring.
Here's another factoid: the probably most famous user of a Gewehr 88 was the philosopher and Pour Le Merite-recipient Ernst Jünger. His rifle had the typical feeding issues as long as the lower dust cover was on the magazine. So he secretly took it off even though it was strictly forbidden. This is from his diary (not the memoir "Storms of Steel")
I read his diary and there’s no G88 mentioned. Can you tell us which copy and on which site?
@@gleisbauer25 It's in "Kriegstagebuch 1914 - 1918", the full diary. The G88 is his first rifle. The moment, where he took the "verfluchten Kastenboden" ("damn dust cover") off his rifle is in "Heft 2 - 22", April 24th, 1915.
Me, with no experience with designing weapons or engineering: "wow what idiot thought that was a good idea?"
Overused meme format
There was a measure added to the rear of the bolt to somewhat protect the shooter in case of gas coming backwards through the receiver. The square sticking out from the left of the bolt nut was the solution to my knowledge as the earlier bolt nuts where only round
Rushed development is dangerous thing indeed.
Othias its because of your videos I have made the purchase of all the 1& 2 wars rifles I own, and miss Mae's sometimes puns with you! Great stuff
Germany's Worst Rifle is actually a fair description and not click-bait, because it really was the only service rifle of the German state since the 1860s to have so many serious and even hazardous issues. Nothing comes close, despite the best efforts of the Internet to meme the G36 as hot-garbage.
G41(W) and G41(M). Both susceptible to all sort of jams, and also hazardous for shooters health if circumstances align.
@@Bojan_Kavedzic Not really service rifles, the G41s, but rather experimental weapons trialed in combat. The G88 was adopted and the only rifle for most of the Imperial German Army for a decade.
Things like this is why I actually like this channel
Why didn't the government ask Mauser if he had anything to bring to the table, anyway? It strikes me as one heck of an oversight to not ask the maker of your current service rifle what he thinks of this new smokeless malarkey.
Good question. I’d love to have some historical sources on that - but I could imagine it went something like: “We are Prussian officers, we know better than some Southern upstart.”
“There is nothing a German officer cannot do.” (Gert Fröbe in _Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines)_
Perhaps it was a case of paranoia that the German government absolutely didn't want the French to know that they now had a small bore smokeless repeater gun. I would also hazard a guess that perhaps the arsenal staff figured that they could do better for one than a private company.
No sources on that but it sounds realistic given what I know of the era.
How would we know they didn't? We are not party to everthing and everyone in history. And remember we are looking at this from a much different era of history and technology advances.
@@comiketiger Everything I've seen says that they didn't. I can only make guesses based on what I know. Otherwise the answer to literally every question about the past would be 'well, we don't know everything, therefore you can't ask that question.'
@@silubr1 : Don' forget, that in those days there had been three gouvernement owned weapon factorries in Prussia and as far as i know one in Bavaria. Perhaps the high command of german army thought, a selfconstructed rifle makes no problems with patents, licences and other cases of Paperwork, Law and money.
Wait a minute, isn't that how the Remington 700 works, and therefore thousands of other rifles with similar actions, that just push-feed right? Isn't this why when people are really serious, they want control round feed, they want a Mauser Claw? Because of this very thing, the boldface(bolt face, stupid voice translation) doesn't grab the round until you close the bolt.
Yes, and why the Mauser 98 remains the King of bolt action rifles.
Double-feeds are not a serious safety concern for most rifles. As far as I know, no modern military sniper uses controlled-feed bolt action (I did not check this but Ian said something about it being very rare. Maybe in the L96 video)
@@TheFanatical1
Yes, but snipers are highly trained specialized professionals. In the old days there were literally millions of clodhoppers using these guns.
@@browngreen933 I was just using it as an example of a contemporary bolt action. As the other commenter said, push-feed is very common on rifles that any fool can go out and buy.
@@TheFanatical1
True. And how many double feed blowups do you hear of? None. For the military, however, a double feed would take a soldier out of action until he could clear the chamber. I'll bet that was 99% of the issue, not safety and blowups.
The Gewehr 88 was my first military surplus rifle purchase, and I bought it because of C and R. It's a great rifle IMO after its various magazine and other upgrades. It shoots well and is a great piece of history. Now I have 13 other Mausers (two Swedish Mausers and a Gewehr 1898 being my favorites) and Enfields mounted along side it on the walls of my garage. And my wife really does NOT like to watch Othais and Mae!
H! The Duchy of Grand Elbonia needs your help. They've regained their independence after WW 1, but need to reequip their army. The Brown Bess muskets had proved inadequate. This being Elbonia, the new Minister of Defense is corrupt and has been bribed by an enemy to procure the worst assortment of small arms possible. He wants to purchase the worst rifle, carbine, and pistol possible. Both a revolver and automatic pistol are desired. The selection criteria of course include disparate ammo and perhaps a difficult to repair weapon.
What weapons used in WW 1 should this fine fellow choose? His colleagues have little firearms familiarity beyond the Brown Bess, so he can get all but the most absurd guns past them.
1879 Reichsrevolver. Better to beat your enemy with.
1886 Lebel. No gate loading so it's single shots until a long enough break comes to be. The carbine version of this carries the same issues with the additional deficit of smaller ammo capacity.
@@LadyAnuB The Lebel can still be topped off at anytime, you just need to open the bolt first. As you would to top off every box magazine bolt action in service as well.
@@DAKOTA56777 Which is much less efficient than a loading gate.
@@LadyAnuB It is more awkward, but it's not nearly as huge a difference as you're making it out to be.
@@DAKOTA56777 You are forgetting one issue with bolt action tube loaders, live rounds will be chambered when closing the bolt. Of course it's Elbonia, that can be considered a feature. 😛
Best channel on RUclips change my mind
On the extractor not engauging. I have found from experience that if you are rapidly firing a K98K you can have that exact same problem.
thanks german design commission
Yay, more Clips!
Ironically, that first problem is still probably the most common malfunction I've seen with the M16/M4/AR. If you ride the charging handle forward at all, the extractor won't pick up the cartridge and it won't fire. You can pull the charging handle back and slam another round into the back of the first one though. The fix was also the same: just train people not to do that. Technically, the forward assist will completely fix the problem if you know you did it, but as all the "gun experts" will tell you: the forward assist on an AR is utterly worthless and serves no purpose.
I've never personally seen one fire out of battery from this in particular but I guarantee it could happen.
That forward assist saved Kyle Rittenhouse's life. Politics aside I think we can all agree it's useful just not maybe as great as some people claim.
@@AnotherHistorianWargamer Yeah, I don't know how common that attitude is but both Ian of Forgotten Weapons and Karl of InRangeTV pretty endlessly bashed it as being totally functionless and no one disagreed despite the fact that in the same video (I think) Ian had exactly this malfunction and corrected it with the forward assist.
I don't see eye to eye with them sometimes, like their review of the Taurus Curve. They took a gun thats supposed to be used at point blank range, in the dark (when most concealed carry incidents happen) and by someone with basically zero experience and used it in the full Arizona sun against competition pistol targets geared towards the absolute best shooters. Of course its going to suck. Its going to suck in exactly the same sense that my PVS-7 and IR laser would be useless in full sunlight.
Anyway, rants over.
Great video - love the clips.
Would the round nose of the Patrone 88 really set off a primer? They didn't use spitzer bullets back then.
I doubt it would happen since most lever action rifles are tube fed and the bullet tips are rounded so they can’t detonate
@@craigthemonke794 A tube mag only has a weak spring pushing on it, not someone slamming the rounds together with their full strength, like what could happen in this situation.
I doubt it'd happen easily, sure, you will likely need to put a lot of umph into the bolt to hit it hard enough, but I can see it being possible.
@@craigthemonke794 Those tube mags usually held rimmed cartridges, which won't lay tip-to-primer.
Don't know about the original round noses, but when these were updated to the 88/05, they were fed spitzers like everything else.
The 8mm Mauser round concurrent with that rifle was a round nose as you'd find in tube fed rifles of the era. It's much blunter than the dummy rounds used in the video and blunter than the "S" cartridge that came along in 1903 which was also pretty blunt. So probably very unlikely to set off the round in front of it, though I'm sure if you jammed that bolt hard enough you might manage to stupid yourself out of a few fingers. Weirdly, I just learned this yesterday in a discussion about the famous Kodiak bear guide, Bill Pinnel. Pinnel preferred an 1888 Commission rifle (perhaps a carbine version) even though his heyday was in the 1940s/50s. I suspect he just trusted that big blunt early 225 grainer to give him all the penetration he needed.
I really these short info spots keep it up.
I really love these shorts correction of brain fart.
Thank you
Did the Mauser 74/8something have the same uncontrolled feed? And what about the Chinese version?
Your comment about the revolver on matt and blonde went over both their heads.
Very interesting and terrifying at the same time
Does the Mosin-Nagant rifle have the same issue? I mean, is it capable firing a round without the bolt head?
No, or at least not without you having to very intentionally load the round without the bolt head (which also has the locking lugs) and which it’s pretty tough to keep the bolt together either.
We have C&R Clips, when are you going to release the C&R Magazine?
Is the second one only an issue with original 88s? My 88/05 will not close all the way if the bolt head is in wrong
I think its because the extractor and ejector would be on the wrong sides, theres a cutout for the extractor on the chamber end of the barrel inside the receiver...if the extractor isnt lined up with the cutout, it cant close.
Good to know. I love these "clips."
And everyone slags off the Ross.
Even before you said it, my instant reaction was poor/inadequate training. Which was the real issue with the Ross.
Great video. Thanks.
To get the terminology right, small arms ammunition doesn't detonate, the propellant burns, the tiny amount of primary explosive in the primer does detonate though.
Yay bell notification worked for me.
Much like clips sped up the loading of firearms considerably, the Clips series has allowed C&Rsenal to deliver content at an unprecedented rate.
Im unusually excited for my shirts, I’m not normally excited for shirts
Me too! My neighbors will be so impressed when I’m sitting in my open garage with a shirt on! I will soon own 2 whole shirts!
What happened to the weekly Minute of Mae?
Bummer. It’s probably out of warranty, too.
You have to wonder if Germany should have simply taken a bit more time to get this rifle out, and how it would have been different if they had done so; the Lebel, while a massive leap in terms of propellant, wasn’t that much better than the 71/84, and many countries took much longer to get a smokeless rifle out; I feel like the problems with extraction and double feeding were inherited from the 71/84, and the barrel bursting was a result of lack of testing and a rushed development, so it’s possible both could have been avoided by doing that; I also wonder how the later Mauser rifles might have differed, since they were largely developed out of spite from this gun, and the designs after the 1891 had features to counter the double feeding problem, so perhaps they might have gone a different direction there; moreover, the flawed barrel and bolt face were developed from the earlier Mausers, so perhaps they might have not corrected those issues until much later, and either in a way the commission came up with or in some completely different method, or possibly just what was done in our own time but further down the line. To be frank, Germany likely could have gotten by with a 71/84 using smokeless powder as a stopgap until they sorted out the flaws in this rifle, though it likely would have resulted in the same flaws we see here showing up on that rifle, but because they were so desperate to keep up with the French, they pushed this rifle out before it was quite ready, inadvertently screwing over (and possibly saving the name of) Paul Mauser (who may never have started his line of rifles had he been invited to work on this one), and ultimately pushing ahead arms development by several years as a result
It is less than twenty years after the Franco-Prussian War. Since then the French have rebuilt and they are still royally pissed off about their losses wanting revenge. Not being behind the French wasn't just a pride thing, there was a real possibility of a war at any time and that was only increased if the French believed they had a significant advantage in rifle technology.
There were also various crises that nearly Brough Germany to war with Britain and the US in this time period.
General Boulanger, the leader of a significant political faction in France at the time, attempted a Trump-style coup d’état in 1889. One main goal of his supporters, the Boulangists, was _Revanche_ against Germany.
Another war was a very real possibility in the 1880s.
One thing I’d like to bring up is that Germany had beat France with an inferior rifle before, as the Dreyse Rifle, which was vastly inferior to the French Chassepot, and Germany was in a very strong position in 1888, while France was undergoing scandals and political instability, meaning that while France might have wanted to go to war, they likely couldn’t have sustained such a war, and it probably would have gone much like the Franco Prussian War; that said, I really like hearing what you guys are saying, and it’s a lot of stuff I hadn’t thought of
@@eazy8579 Sure. But the expected gap between a black powder and smokeless powder rifle was expected to be enormous. Remember, they were expecting that soldiers with smokeless powder could effectively engage to distances beyond a kilometre. We are talking more like the Austro-Prussian War here.
Plus, Germany just didn't want a war with France, they got what they wanted from France in 1871. So they don't want France thinking they have an advantage.
Then you mention the political instability, it isn't unheard of to use a war to rally patriotic fervour around an unstable government.
With hindsight we can say they should have taken more time, but the rush was a pretty rational decision at the time. Although they should have known enough to involve Mauser.
@@88porpoise very true, I suppose my perspective is colored by hindsight, and since the Germans really couldn’t have seen by them
Okay, but a heck of a lot better than the previous Gew. 71/84 service rifle.
Does it hurt when you do that?
Well don't do that!
Training accomplished.
I bet you give good hugs.
Any book recommendations about the 'controversy' of the 88? My search doesn't lead anywhere. Oh I'm a patreon supporter and love the shows!
If you can find a reasonably priced copy, I recommend “A Collector's Guide to the German Gew. 88 ‘Commission’ Rifles and Carbines” by Paul S. Scarlata.
Our own episodes should have some literature in the descriptions! I don't know of anything written since then.
@@Candrsenal excellent! A chance to rewatch a classic episode too :) Oh and the shirts are so cool I bought three. Hurray Kevin!
good video
Tip to butt.....always gotta be weary
Dang, I got a lucky refresh lmao
Yet many nation adopt them.
Did anyone other than Germany adopt them? The Ottomans used them, but that was more hand-me-downs than actual adoption
@@TenaciousTrilobite Italy, China, the Balkan etc.
Most problems of the rifle were later solved.
its all in the training
only if they waited a year for the 1889 mauser
lads, behold
the slam fire bolt action
I still think it’s wrong not seeing her in the video
But I just watched the 88 episode last night, and you want me to watch it again? Ok
"if you don't put the bolt head back on then the gun can misfire"
"The Mauser is a terrible gun because if you load it and point at your head and pull the trigger then you die"
Yes, but in this case, you can die without pointing it at your head
you trying to make a smart(ass) analogy, and yet you end up sound like someone who dunno crap.
Wow, what an unsafe, rushed, piece of junk the G88 is!
Still, better than a Lebel
I have to say, i collected old firearms, about 62 pieces and my g88/05 steyr made no turk stamps is the best rifle for me, smooth action, good weight, good sights...love it
Cool
Dude l know texted me a week or so ago asking if the gew88's he bought could be rebarreled to .338 Lapua........
Never understood why people buy surplus to try to make into some wacky sniper gun when cheap hunting rifles are like $200-300.
Hell, doesn't Savage make a cheap .338 for $800?
Well, TBH, nothing in .338 Lapua is going to be "cheap"...
@@christopherreed4723 Yeah, but $800 is relatively cheap for a Lapua-chambered rifle.
@@pcblah Probably a hangover from a time when milsurps were cheap and quality hunting/target rifles were expensive.
Supposedly any small ring mauser pattern barrel will fit with slight modifications, according to the gunboard forums...id think given this actions inherent weakness, maybe a 7.62x39 would be a safer bet. Personally, ive got a hanyang junker id love to make a .22LR plinker out of...single shot, of course...but nobody makes the parts, and good gunsmiths are as hard to find as money these days.
The G36 would like a word.
It wouldn't because the G36 works and the heating issue they have was a misinterpretation of a report about them by a minister so they could justify buying new guns.
repeating firearms didn't became reliable enough to be popularised long after they were first invented.
First one; yeah i've seen that before as said its not a fully unique issue. Second one: Hoooooly crap!
My cousin almost did this with his mosin
They should have just contracted Mauser instead of having a Commission come up with this silly rifle.
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Yeah, id have to say its terrible. I have several. All of them have problems. The bolts are rarer than the rifles, and run about $300.00! Ejectors and extractors are unavailable. Dustcovers are rare and demand a premium. Mags wont swap between an 88 and 88/05 or 88/35 because the mag well hole in the stock has to be opened up for the taller walls on the 88/05/14/35 magazines. Not to mention the spring steel feed lip/ interruptor. My major issues are that my czech 1930s barrels are finicky on ammo- certain cases wont chamber fully. The rear sight slides are almost always missing and impossible to find. The extractor only pulls a spent case out 50% of the time, and the ejector only detaches the spent case from the bolt head face right on top of the magazines next round. And the rounds tip up after the bolt pushes them from under the feed lip/ interruptor, and they get stuck pointing up in the receiver bolt lug recesses....even if the rounds are, as Othias says," keep ' em to the back of the mag." Using a plate however to make it a single shot, it feeds and extracts fine. Id never use it in a war!
Is there a reason why this channel started to overly bash certain german weapons like the Reichsrevolver or this rifle ?
I don’t think they’re overly bashing them. The Reichsrevolver was pretty bad. The Gew 88 wasn’t terrible, but it was bad enough for Germany to replace after only a decade. It’s basically Germany’s equivalent to the US Krag in terms of service life.
Эх, эти шикарные видео с переводом на русский язык, просмотров было бы очень много..
Na
👍 für den Algorithmus
Had a commission rifle when I was younger that was missing the bolt head I was going to shoot it but talked to older gun enthusiasts and he told me not to without that part
If you were even considering shooting a rifle without the bolt head, you should not own any firearms.
@@Chris_Garman I was 16 at the time and not fimilar with that type of gun I come from a muzzloader line of guns lucky I was smart enough to show it to someone
What sucks is that theres other guns derived from this design....and NONE of the other bolt heads swap. Theyre all different...viguero, belgian, romanian, etc
Yeah, these are barely issues. Loads of MODERN actions are push feed, have removable bolt heads and on almost all rifles you just have to steer the bolt in for it to snap behind the bolt stop.
You're grasping here Othais.
Wat dummy would do that
i love you mae ; )
59th
Am I first?
Cool episode
Algorithm engagement comment
Bolt release like my ex-girlfriend.
I had an unconverted Gew 88 for a long time and I love how absolutely awful the rifle is, probably the worst design the Germans ever issued. It's funny too cause rifles like the Lebel 1886 and Schmidt-Rubin 1889 are from the same time period and are an order of magnitude more serviceable.
Comment for the a l g o r i th h h m n mn mmn mn nn nm nm
The 88 was never meant for idiots it's a service man's rifle built for the imperial German army a well-trained army not conscripts. I have had one for many years and never once had a problem with it . It's for better than the carcano !
This is a ludicrously insane attitude to have, and it's gotten well trained servicemen killed all throughout history.
@@ekscalybur 🐂💩
@@benjimenfranklin7650 Ah, emojis. The language of our intellectual superiors.
Man, it really hurts when spastic millenials burn me so epicly.
@@ekscalybur you're about as full of s*** as a Christmas turkey ! How's that no Emojis !
The Imperial German Army WAS a conscript army, since well before WWI.
But I just watched the 88 episode last night, and you want me to watch it again? Ok