15 Oldest Beings and Creatures of Middle Earth
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- Опубликовано: 16 май 2024
- Excluding Iru Illuvatar and the Ainur, some of the oldest beings in Middle-earth are a select few Maiar spirits who assumed mortal forms, such as Sauron, the wizards, and the balrogs who departed Valinor to reside in Middle-earth. Which character was the oldest up to the destruction of the One Ring?
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![[LOTR] The Complete History of Arda and Middle-earth](/img/1.gif)
The "nameless things" definitely have a H.P Lovecraft vibe!
Absolutely! I wonder if JRR Tolkien was familiar with HP Lovecraft? (I'm confident that he was at least aquainted with Chambers, Blackwood, and Machen- the pre-lovecraftian cosmic horror writers. Also, Poe.)
Interesting, eh?
@@bholdr----0 He was writing letter about some book where one Lovecraft story was published. But also I think that people are projecting headcanons when finding lovecraftian stuff in LoTR.
Sauron and Durin's Bane are older than that because they were in Middle-Earth during the Chaining of Melkor, or during the Years of the Trees, thus they are older than Cirdan as he was born, likely one of the first or second generation of Elves to be born as he was 'kin of Thingol' as was Lord Celeborn of Lothlorien! Who was likely born during the Great March of the Elves!
Cirdan in one of the oldest he is one of the original elves that awaken in cuivenen
Sauron and the Balrogs took their forms during the years of the Two Lamps when Melkors major stronghold was still in Utumno. Thus making them somewhere between 45000-55000 years old by the end of the third age.
Gandalf died after killing the Barlog so he is less then 1 year old he resurrected raised dead or reincarnated
Correct.
@briankobleur4166 when the 2 robots see him at the time the robots we're with the tree ends they call Gandalf by name . Gandalf had Bern living in the afterlife when they come hete they forget most of that life Gandolf had forgotten his name . This means he had died and come back he was now less then a year old
How can Galadriel be older than Sauron when he was around before the elves were created?
He is only countimg saurons age after he came to earth (as explained at the beginning of the video) otherwise every ainu is older than anything else
@@abobanger9054But they *are* older.
@@arc7375 we all KNOW
The creator of this video only includes their AGE after they arrived to arda
Sauron arrived and took shape on earthly terms after galadriel was born, that's what this is about in given context
@@abobanger9054 That is dumb way to classify age!
its like Hitler only became Hitler when he became fascist and his age starts from that point onwards.
@@samanyupalthi not my problem
I was explaining what was done
The real question is how old are Tom Bombadil's boots and who made them?
Maybe he didn't always wear boots. The elves could have made them for him.
These are the questions I came here for!
Dunno, but they're yellow.
I think they’re Crocs.
He is the same age as Arda. Since he remembers times when there were no trees, nor the Dark Lord.
Number one should be Tolkien, because he wrote the first letter and lived before it.
If that's the case, it's still Tom because he's from a book written before the hobbit
The Maiar (including the Wizards & Balrogs) are older than Arda, as they participated in the Great Music.
Yea there's alot wrong with this video
he is talking about physical clothes of ainur , not their spirits.
obviously balrog didnt look like horned king kong before its descend
@@mar2506 Balrogs were Maiar and were corrupted by Melkor during creation of Arda. So they took their physical form during this corruption.
@@pivson1634 no they didnt.
maiar spirits freely travelled through the universes and more.
obviously fixed physical bodies of balrogs cant travel through universe since balrog can be killed by any sword or like drown but cant leave their bodies such as other maiar and valar.
they most likely created those bodies while they were descending or those bodies were provided to them by melkor after their descend.
what you said may have been true if balrogs could leave physical bodies or shapeshit like valar and other maiar any time they want.
balrog can't travel through universes with mortal bodies infinitely so their bodies have to be created after they touched down to arda.
@@pivson1634All Ainur, both Maiar and Valar, adopted a physical form when they landed on Arda. And their physical form was 'bound' to Arda, as was their fate.
That was a kind of both blessing and curse, since while they got material bodies they also became more vulnerable, with a mortal body but still immortal spirit.
The Ainur that chose to remain with Eru Illuvatar (an unknown but apparently high number) retained their non corporeal form.
The Balrog was not awakened by the Fellowship of the Ring. It was awakened because the dwarves dug "too greedily and too deep" according to the source lore. After all, it's nickname was Durin's Bane. It would have to have been awake to be the bane of Durin.
Yeah, this video is not lore accurate.
@@Valdagast I would have thought Durin's Bane would have been a survivor from the first age where almost all the Balrogs under Gothmog were destroyed during the war.
@@generoberts9151I think that's the common understanding.
Yeah I'm about to going to correct the video but thanks for saving my time
Strange, I don't remember dwarves digging, then the fellowship went In There fought and woke it up ... that's what he means, you geek
Bombadil cannot be Illuvatar since both Gandalf and Elrond said at the Council of Elrond that even Bombadil couldn't stand against Sauron if Sauron had conquered the rest of Middle Earth and Illuvatar's will cannot be thwarted or denied, as Melkor found out.
Also, Tolkien explicitly said Bombadil is not Illuvatar.
While I believe they are not one and the same, it could be that Bombadil was a flesh made avatar of illuvatar or someone else, with only a small leftover piece of their divinity, as well as a fragmented personality and limited memory of them.
The writers of the Dragonlance novels did that (I think) with the old , seemingly senile wizard, Fizban, being a fragmented part, in physical avatar form, of Paladine, the god of good.
I'm not saying that's what I believe Tom is, just pointing out a possibility. The wizards of middle earth were similar to this weren't they, in that, in physical/mortal form, they no longer had memories of their maiar existence, and their personalities were also likely slightly different in physical form. Kind of like they lost who they were when taking on a physical body and being cast to middle earth.
Also, in 3e D&D, a deity of sufficient rank could make an avatar, which was not the deity her/himself, but an entity that had a separate personality, but always acted in its maker's will, and the deity was perpetually seeing and hearing what their avatar saw and heard.
Tom could be something like that possibly, though, I don't really suspect that either.
I always suspected Tolkien just wanted an entity on middle earth that just lived happily, above and immune to all the goings on around him, and it was that simple. A figure of mystery.
Bombadil is Tolkien ;)
Though to be fair what they say could be their interpretation of Tom. They could easily be wrong as they had no idea how he was able to resist the ring in the first place.
Definitely a fresh energetic personality to add the pod, great addition to
Galadriel would be closer to 27000 years old. She was born in the Years of the Trees when the years were calculated as Valian years. 1 valian year is about 144 solar years, so Galadriel would have been 19872 "solar years" old before the sun rose for the first time.
Ainur are literally beings who sang the concept of time into being. It makes no sense to give them ages.
Yet if you want to do so, they entered into universe before anything was made and built it, and similarly built Arda.
So ages of Sauron and Durin's bane should at very least be in the very beginning when Arda was being built. And no plants or animals yet existed, and world was unformed and full of flame.
not flame, water. Fire and Ice didn't exist until morgoth's corruption of nature.
This video is more about the age of Arda representations, as it has been described, and depicted in the Rings of Power Series, coming to Arda basically resets their entire life, they know what they know, but its incompatible to the world around them conceptually, so they are basically very intelligent children trying to figure out there way when they first arrive to Arda, basically being reborn from a timeless place into a place with time. Gandalf described it a few times, the before his incarnation as being timeless to them.
Sauron and the Balrogs entered Middle-Earth before the awakening of the Elves at Cuiviénen therefore they are older than any Elf or Ent. The Nameless things may well have been created by Melkor when the Dark Lord first battle the Valar for control of Arda so they are probably younger than Tom Bombadil.
Since the watcher in the water is a nameless thing, he is one of the oldest in tolkiens story (in terms of physical manifestation in the world).
It's just a theory, it's confirmed that that thing is a nameless thing
Galadriel is way older than 8000, take into account time flowed differently before the sun and moon existing. That and a single lifetime of man is a single elf year. And that’s also considering long lived humans. Let me explain further with more of her story through the lens of her gift to Gimli - it has deeper meaning behind it, like most things in this movie & reflects the expanded lore of the middle earth universe. Galadriel is one of the 2-3 most powerful & wise elves remaining in Middle Earth since the time the land was young. She was born in a place called Valinor, or the Undying land... which is basically the place of residence of the Valar, the local pantheon, the local "gods" as you may call them.
Back then, the world was not illuminated by the sun&moon, (only the stars, but rather by 2 trees of gold and silver, Telperion and Laurëlin that lit the world before the sun & moon were born from their last flower & fruit as they were basically killed by Melkor when he struck them with his Lance and Ungoliant the primordial Eldrich Terror vampirized the life force of the two trees. Ungoliant she was named by the Eldar/Elves).
It is said that Galadriel's hair had enmeshed some of the shine and power of those two trees within her tresses. Her uncle Fëanor, who was a great king of the Elven people after his father Finwë was slain by Morgoth(Formally known as Melkor).
Fëanor arguably was their greatest craftsman and warrior to ever live, asked if she could give him a lock of hair, so that he could use it to fashion 3 gems that would shine of the same light as the trees. Sensing his pride & a shadow that wasn’t exactly belonging to him brewing from within, she refused his request 3 times. He stopped asking and made the gems anyway, managing to complete the task he had set for himself even without her hair.
Around these 3 gems, the possession of which became the driving force for many of the great events in the world, entire wars that lasted for centuries exploded, and other events. The gems actively shaped the fate of the races of middle earth to the point that the aforementioned Valar got involved directly. During these times, events surrounding the gems brought about the traditional enmity between Dwarves and Elves... the same enmity that Gimli still feels towards them.
That enmity however does not survive his encounter with the wise Galadriel, whom Gimli basically falls platonically in love with. By giving him 3 of her hair, Galadriel is opening a door, offering an olive branch that might one day close the gap that divides these two races. Legolas, himself being an Elven prince and centuries old, knows of the story through his father Thranduil & grandfather Oropher, as it shaped the lives of all Elves, and his subtle smile is possibly the first act of acknowledgment and reconciliation.
it is also a way for Peter Jackson, the director of the film, to give a nod to all of the fans who know these facts and backstories... a way to make us feel seen, and to make us appreciate just how deeply the makers of the film respect the books and larger universe created by Tolkien.
The thing with the hair may seem weird, but there is a significance to it in real life as well as in the lore of the story. In real life, it was not uncommon for wives, fiancés, or even girlfriends to give their men (who were going off to war), a lock of their hair as a keepsake, particularly in WWI, which Tolkien fought in.
The lore part of it comes into play in The Silmarillion, Tolkien's tales of the creation of Arda, the Undying Lands of Valinor, and Middle Earth. Galadriel is many, many thousands of years old, & was born in Valinor before the sun & moon were even created.
At the time, the world was lit by two trees, one gold and one silver which would shine at different times from each other, but would shine together once a day when one would fade and the other brighten. Galadriel's hair was said to look like the light of the mingled light from the two trees, which may have inspired Feanor, a master craftsman and heir to the high king of the Ñoldor, to craft the Silmaril's which were three jewels that captured the light of the two trees, one golden light, one silver light, & one co-mingled light.
Fëanor had a bit of a thing for Galadriel and begged her for her hair three different times, which she rejected because she could perceive the inner darkness of his heart and rejected him, which made them "un-friends" after that. There is a lot more to the lore than that, so this is the super crib-notes version. But the point is, it was VERY significant that she granted Gimli three of her hairs to a dwarf, when she would not to the son of her king many 10s of thousands of years ago of which she is related to all three kings who were brothers and Elu Thingol of Doriath was one of the brothers that didn’t stay in Valinor even though he was one of the elven ambassadors along with his three brothers and that king I mentioned was VERY close friends with Thingol)
Well we know the nameless things are older than Sauron because Gandalf explicitly said so.
"Even Sauron knows them not, for they are older than he."
Sauron is a Maia, who were among the first beings given life by Eru. Olorin (Gandalf) was as well, but he didn't take physical form until Varda convinced him to go to Middle-Earth in the second age. It's one of the reasons I will emphatically argue that Sauron is (technically) still alive, since mortals cannot kill a Maia. Tolkien contradicted himself several times as the story evolved.
@@jacobenke7936 Sauron may not be dead. No one said he was. But dead or not has nothing to do with my claim, which was that he is not older than the nameless things.
This is simply a question of believing Gandalf or not.
He said the nameless things were older than Sauron.
You calling him a liar?
@@TomdeSablaSauron predates Eä itself, so he certainly is “older” than the Nameless Things. I can only assume that what Gandalf meant is that they had existed in Arda since before Sauron and all the other Ainur left the Timeless Halls and descended into Eä.
@@jacobenke7936 The goal was never to kill Sauron, killing him was known to be impossible. The immortal spirits of specific beings can never be killed unless Eru did it himself. The Valar, Maiar, etc, are all immortal spirits, including the elves. Their souls never die, they simply go elsewhere. For their corruption, they were banished from Eru's haven (basically heaven), into the Void, where they then latched onto the physical world, Arda, in order to not be lost forever to the Void. Sauron poured his tether to the world, into the ring, all of his willpower, to bind his spirit to Arda further, which is why him having it made him so dangerous. When the ring was destroyed, it destroyed Sauron's tether, and he become lost to the void. Melkor underwent a similar situation, and is lost to the void as well.
Suron, Balrogs and Istari (Gandalf, Saruman and the rest of the Wizards) descended to arda at the same time the Valar did. Meaning they're as old as the Valar themselves, created by Eru Iluvatar. They took their different forms later. I.e. The wizards were sent by the Valar to Middle-Earth to catch Sauron after Morgoth's defeat and they were sent in the form of old men so they couldn't use their full power in order to not interfere with the peoples of Middle-Earth. Long story shor, as I said, Sauron, Balrogs and the Wizards were as old as the Valar
What a massive story to invent! The obsession with the ideas of characters, regions, and turning it into an entertaining and fluid tale is mind boggling.
I think the most saw the thumbnail and went straight to the comments as I did😂😂 to see someone trying to tell us that Angband was on numenor😂😂😂😂 absolute comedy gold❤ yeah you lost us sir with the ages not a good thing. If you make a Video about such a matter get your infos right 😊
Maybe he just watched the Rings of Power series and took info from there 😂
Thank you, I cannot believe this video was even made, it's ALL WRONG
You don't get it about the Maiar:
14. Not true, the wizards were Maiar, which were created during the Ainulindale.
7. Durins bane was also a Maia, and as such he was created during the Ainulindale.
6. Same for Sauron, he was a Maia.
6. Mairon older. How can I put it? Same person, but different "filling"
@@user-qd2nd6hi8jdifferent forms, you mean? first mairon, then sauron? that's true but it is still the same Maia
@@wilmerschouten9453 let me tell another analogy.. we have painter, and we have dictator. Same person, different "filling" 😁
As Sauron he was "born" after joining Melkor
@user-qd2nd6hi8j i think i know what you mean but what exactly is the link between dictator and painter?
@@user-qd2nd6hi8j"Sauron" is only a different name given to an Ainu who had already taken part of Melkor's cacophony during the Ainulindalë, and had joined him for good before the destruction of the Lamps of Almaren at the latest, long before Elf or Onodrim ever existed.
Part 2 - Proof Galadriel is older than 8000 - “I shall NOT be dark, all EVIL will despair” part 2 - All creatures whose flesh are nourished by the matter of Arda have a tendency towards Melkor AKA Morgoth, for greater or lesser. Since Melkor poured his evil power into the very existence and essence of the world(Morgoth’s Ring” book explains a lot including how and when he put a portion of his remaining power into the earth itself.
Sure, Galadriel was born in the Undying Lands where there was supposed to be no evil (souls of the Elves are greatly less subject to making faulty decisions), but Galadriel & the rest of her father's kin were directly targeted by the Evil Lord himself. Melkor corrupted a decent portion of the Noldor, basically telling them things along the lines of “My Valarin kin are cooping you all up in Valinor.”, which wasn’t their ancestral homeland to begin with, like Middle Earth was, Some were affected little, most were affected to greater degrees, and Galadriel was the least affected woman by the lies of Melkor, which were “sweet but poisoned honey" as she’d call his words.
Her natural pious tendency towards goodness & kindness as shown by her ability to read the hearts of everyone and all living beings around her which aids her to provide what anyone truly needs. Due to the magic bleeding from the world as the ages went on; thanks to Morgoth’s Ring poisoning the earth long ago; lead to a what if scenario in her mind as she’d be the only living creature left with the skills & power to even use the ring.
She didn’t need her ring at all to block him out of her realm telepathically as well as read his mind from afar without him knowing. But there is a difference between good people who are a bit morally challenged and the evil people.
The evil folk act upon their impulses and unlawful desires, while the good folk overcome such flaws within themselves (and for some not always they can masterfully do this). Galadriel WOULD NEVER listen to Melkor and tread the path of toxic pride and ambition.
Galadriel has a Fëa spirit that’s only grown larger as the ages passed on and on. Enough to channel into an effect that threw down fortress walls, without tiring her at all. And with that much Fëa, she is capable of holding her own against Maiar for a good long while, much like her brother Finrod did against Sauron, or her uncle Fëanor did against Balrogs.
Fëanor effectively lost all claim to the crown when he rebelled and dragged his entire house to Middle Earth. Where he promptly died a heroic death after slaying several Balrogs at the Dagor-nuin-Giliath; The Elves first encountered Lord Of Balrogs named Gothmog in the Dagor-nuin-Giliath; (meaning “the battle fought under stars”) before the first rising of the Moon.
In that battle, Fëanor's fury had caused him to draw forward of the main force of the Noldor, and so he came upon Gothmog with only a small guard left around him that rushed so deep into enemy territory.
Fëanor slayed 2 or 3 balrogs at once & Gothmog slayed him after one bound him suddenly with its primordial flame whip when he was supposed to have an uninterrupted “one on one” duel with Gothmog but one wasn’t wanting to play fair. But he was fatally wounded and so his sons and host moved him away to a safe place where his body burned up from the fires of his own spirit.
Even with a lesser ring like Nenya, Galadriel had enough of a boost in her Fëa(spirit) , that she could sustain an unassailable magical realm against Maiar and virtually anything on Middle-Earth. Only problem was when Sauron wore the one ring, she had to take off Nenya, and had to lose that Maia level Fëa spirit from the modernly termed “boosted power up”
With the one ring, Galadriel would have such a boost in her Fëa spirit, that she’d literally become stronger than the foundations of the Earth.
Due to Galadriel’s immense native Fëa, she was prone to a super healthy pride and a small lust for dominion/ but not domination, her goodness kept this pride from going over to the dark side. Galadriel at heart was extremely good so she’s definitely not evil. She never once is called queen or desires to be called such a thing, she and her husband Celeborn became the wiseman and wisewoman of that realm; after the previous elven lord Amroth died and his wife Nimrodel disappeared ontop of the fact Amroth’s Successor later died as well in the “Last Alliance”, (same battle shown in the prologue to Fellowship Of The Ring), All Evil Despairs at her presence let alone hearing her name on the wind.
The Nazgûl themselves avoid her realm every chance they get to the point of choosing to go the long way around for over 100 miles just to avoid her. (So she’s definitely scary to foul entities that have turned away from Eru Îlluvatar the one AllFather.)
She’s a totally good character. Aragorn even says to the Fellowship as they enter Lothlórien, “There is in her and this land no evil, unless a man bring it hither himself. Then let him beware!” If you’re going by her portrayal in the movies, you might think she has an evil element to her character, but that came from Peter Jackson’s portrayal of the addictive, coercive power of the Ring. When Frodo offered her the Ring, it presented her with visions of herself as the all-powerful Goddess of Middle-Earth.
Luckily, she was smart & intuitive enough to realize that the Ring was totally evil, and despite the best of intentions, it would have turned her evil in the end-but she still would have appeared to be beautiful and good. I don’t agree with Jackson’s “drowned Galadriel” portrayal of her being tempted by the Ring-I think she’d have appeared as a supernatural being of divine beauty, and her regular appearance was close to that already, but how do you show that in a movie? Apparently, in her youth in Valinor, she was somewhat of a rebel, but that’s not necessarily evil.
She certainly could have fallen into the same trap as her uncle Fëanor did, of thinking that everyone was entitled to her opinion-but she kept her ego in check. (If you’re not sure what I’m referring to there; please read The Silmarillion and “Unfinished Tales”.)
No matter how noble her reason was to use the ring as a last resort, especially if said fellowship fell off the “edge of the knife” as she called it. she had a change of heart which happened in the middle of talking to Frodo.
Galadriel left Valinor(The Undying Lands) for a reason - and it was different from most of the other elves.
She wasn’t with her uncle Fëanor, who wished to make war against Morgoth and retrieve the Silmarils - she was not wishing to go to war, and had no interest in the Silmarils in which Melkor stole from Fëanor which was the surviving light of the two trees of Valinor within them that the only Fëanor; the master of all elven smiths could have accomplished but it could not be done a second time as is any pure creation of one’s heart, especially in regards to the elves and Valar alike.
Though she traveled with her other uncle, Fingolfin, her goals were not aligned completely with his either despite her full support of her noble and regal uncle Fingolfin in general.
- They both wished to keep an eye on Fëanor and make sure the Noldor were in good hands -
Galadriel wasn’t interested in Fëanor and wanted her own realm. After spending some time in Doriath, Galadriel and her husband Celeborn passed to the east out of Beleriand and passed eastward through Eriador and over the Misty Mountains; to where she founded her own realm in what became renamed as Lothlórien. Her motivation and goal was to preserve her realm, possibly at any means necessary.
With Sauron’s return in the Third Age, Galadriel was forced to ask herself how far she would go to preserve her realm. If Frodo failed, she must forsake her own ring & her realm. If he succeeds, her ring will lose power and her realm will fade. Would she seize the ring, taking Sauron’s power for her own, to save her realm? She decided she would not. She had decided to “test” the Fellowship, to find some flaw that would allow her to justify seizing the ring, and she did find a flaw - in herself. She stated to Frodo, that by telling her that he would offer her the ring if she asked, that she had come to test his heart, but found that he was testing hers.
She had a change of heart, she would pass into the West, and remain Galadriel.
Which one is better? Being born completely good and living your whole life without any evil inside, or having a character growth ?
If we want tò be tecnical, maiar and Valar stayed in the halls of iluvatar where time didnt exist, so they can literally have infinite years or 2
Their Ages in the Lands of middle Earth, that's the point of the video... Listen to the content
@@Reuben5120 ok, ok
@@miriamemanueleforneris3701 yeah technically and actually you are right! They have all that knowledge with them so how can you classify older creatures like that.
Aside from which, they were the ones who literally created Arda. There would be no time whatsoever without them.
One wonders what all of these different entities did when not trying to kill each other or take over the world? Did they have a favorite pub or dark place to hang out and smoke their weed or drink their mead?
Yes they did. It was called "His Song" referring, of course, to the original music of the Ainur. However, the world (Arda) was changed and may well have changed again but the original hangout still exists. Oddly enough it became part of the "New World" and is located in Mexico. The name changed over the ages and it is now known as "Hussong's" and not surprisingly , is located on the coast in a town called "Ensenada". It is well known among sailors on the western coast of North America and is the finish line of a well known yacht race every year. The institutes of higher learning near the coast are very much aware of Hussong's. 🤣😆🤣
Imagine how bored you must get sitting at a harbor for over 10,000 years. My god. No pub is going to cure that boredom.
He said Treebeard is “Eleven Thousand TREE-hundred years old!” 🤣
All joking aside, I enjoyed the vid, mate! 👍🏻💯
Has any sense to talk about age for Gandalf, Sauron or Balrog since they where 'born' together with every ainur long before middle earth was created?
was supprised we didn't get smaug on the list...that dragon must have been very old
Not so much he says himself that he was young when he took Erebor.
The current ages of the characters: Frodo Baggins is 53. Samwise Gamgee is 38. Meriadoc Brandybuck (Merry) is 36. Peregrin Took (Pippin) is 28. Gandalf (Olòrin) - is 15,000 (in his current form. Aragorn is (won’t say, you’ll find out). Legolas is 2,931. Gimli is 139. Boromir son of Denethor II is 41!
Elves aged differently than men and dwarves. They did not suffer from old age or disease, and their lives were not limited by a fixed number of years. Instead, they aged very slowly, remaining youthful and vigorous for much longer than mortals. Though they could voluntarily leave their bodies and the ultimate thing that can kill them is grief or Sorrow that’s palpable enough for them to just not wish to live anymore.
Here are the ages of some of the main Elves of the Third Age, as of the War of the Ring:
1. Elrond Half-elven - over 8,586 while his daughter is 3,777 old!
2. Galadriel - around 20,000(180.000 in solar human years [1 elf year is one lifetime of man] but time is counted, felt & experienced very differently before the birth of the sun and moon. ❤)
3. Celeborn - 20,000; (he may have been alive before her birth or around the same time as his lineage that he lived amongst his forefathers and kin might suggest he is older but they are both very ancient.)
4. Glorfindel (replaced scenes with Arwen in the movies but it helped prop up Aragorn’s Film character progression. I still think they could have incorporated them both in the scenes somehow and included the other important stuff that went on in that forest meeting Glorfindel and his company of elves)- he’s over 2,000 (although he had been re-embodied after dying in the First Age which means his Fëa {spirit} is far older than 2000.)
5. Thranduil - over 8000, (as he was born in the First Age and lived in Doriath with his father Oropher; Thranduil is also the father of Legolas. (As Haldir mentioned him when speaking to Legolas in Lothlòrien during the first movie’s extended scene. He shares the same kindred elven clan as to Celeborn(Galadriel’s husband).
It's worth noting that Elves could choose to die voluntarily, usually when they grew weary of life or when they had fulfilled their purpose in the world. However, their spirits would then depart to the Halls of Mandos and could eventually be re-embodied in a new
body
I meant to add that Frodo was 51 when he left due to the whole Gandalf coming back to the shire after many years. that explains why his youthful appearance didn’t change much throughout the entire film!
You got Sauron wrong I’m afraid. He look form during the age of lamps before the Elves even woke up and never left Middle Earth.
Galadriel is older than 80000 part 2 - Galadriel’s Gift To Gimli part 2 - ever wondered how old Galadriel is during the War of the Ring? I have looked in many different sources and depending on where you look, she’s anywhere from 17,000-20,000 elf-years old. 6,000 seems too young as it would make her close in age to Elrond, who I know is much younger than her even though he’s 6000-8000 by the third age, which wouldn’t make sense for her at all even if she was (“690 elf-years older” as some kept repeating on the internet making 6960!)As she was around long before Elrond was even born and time was experience differently to say the LEAST as there is a lot to go into on that subject lol.)
She was born during the Years of the Trees & back then the years were something like 9X longer than a solar year so I understand the math is hard, especially since she isn’t given an exact birth year. But it is said that Finarfin, her father, was born in Y.T. 1230, so I would assume she was born sometime within 1000 years of then (being generous).
Basically, I’m wondering what the most accurate range is for her age during the events of Lord of the Rings.
I’ll also add that Galadriel is was around before the ents even existed (of which Treebeard is 15,000 years old so she’s OLDER than Treebeard/Fangorn) or very close to when they were “created” by Yavannah and probably had much knowledge to do with such things and or direct knowledge of what happened. Probably through an early prototype of her mirror or simply another dream that made her long for middle earth all over again ontop of the yearning she already had to go there and explore. Nothing to do with Fëanor’s oath and all that jazz.
(So by this current era in HUMAN solar years she’s like. 150,000 to 180,000 years old. Now that makes more sense if she’s going to be older than the sun and moon. Tolkien was always reiterating his manuscripts with the growing scientific discoveries.)
though Treebeard/Fangorn in the deeper writings is older than Galadriel as he was one of first brought into life by Yavanna to help protect nature while it was put into enhanced hibernation by Yavanna to protect them from Morgoth’s Ring (the poisoning of the world itself which caused it to bleed its magic away over the ages called The Long Defeat by the elves.)
Just going from the Appendices (and maybe Silmarillion) she would have to be at least 9000+ years older than Elrond, Elrond was born near the end of the First Age, Galadriel was adult before the destruction of the Trees.
Actually, more than that: I just checked, and the Second Age ended in SA 3441. So an elf born literally at the end of the First Age (FA 590) is 3441+3018 = 6459 years old when Frodo leaves for Rivendell. Elrond was born in FA 532, so adds 58 years to get 6517. Elves are mature at 100, so Galadriel adds at leas 632 to Elrond's age, to be at least 7149, and possibly quite a bit more (as attested by other comments.)
One fic had Maglor(Elrond’s Adoptive Father, Maedhros was also adoptive father alongside Maglor, they were the eldest sons of Fëanor) - One fic had as much older than Galadriel; I wondered how we knew, and it was pointed out to me that Maglor was the second oldest son of the first son of Finwë, while Galadriel is the youngest child of the third son of Finwë. So, yeah.
Note that the second age was the LONGEST and again time was experienced very differently back then too aside from the internal clock of elves working very differently, she’s definitely older as far as the world and the other beings that age far faster around her.
I also remind you all that she’s older than the sun and the moon and witnessed & most likely even helped in the Valar’s crafting what would be the vessels of the last fruit & flower of the two trees of Valinor. She was the most involved with learning everything possible from them and it was stated that she learned all there was to learn from ALL of the Valar that they could teach and she mastered all at a deep level. (Wow hey?)
She’s 25th generation from Tata one of the elven forefathers to wake to the stars. Their birth was rather shrouded in mist. Only those of her grandfathers ilk have a chance of knowing the origins a bit better as they are closer to that culture that stemmed from the beginning.
The Years of the Trees were the second of the three great time periods in Arda that followed the Years of the Lamps and preceded the Years of the Sun&Moon. They were known to be comprised of several Ages and lasted in total around 1500 Valian Years or 14,373 solar years.
Time flowed differently back then and time flowed differently within them too for the elves live as long as the world does. Epic hey?❤❤
The Dúnedain said that Galadriel’s height was two rangar, or "man-high" - some 6 feet 4 inches (193 cm). However, Galadriel's most striking feature was her beautiful long silver-golden hair. The Elves of Tirion said it captured the radiance of the Two Trees Laurelin and Telperion themselves. Galadriel was said to be the tallest female in Middle Earth, at 6'4”. But then Thingol was the tallest elf ever to live, and he's estimated to be almost 9' (274 cm)
Thingol was also a very very prominent figure within the Silmarillion and other books. He’s the great ancestor of Elrond+Arwen and through Aragorn being directly but distantly related to Elronds Twin Brother Elros it makes him loosely connected to Thingol as well. Let’s just say he died a tragic death long long ago. I’m a continent that doesn’t exist anymore. The events I spoke of in my earlier story of Elrond about his fathers deeds, which lead to the Valar helping with putting a Stop to Morgoth for good so to say and that War Of Wrath lasted 80 years straight and it left the landmass torn asunder from the clash of gods and the holy host of Vanyar elves that were closest to the Valar than all other elves so you can imagine what a bunch of mighty elves men and Maiar fighting a bunch of fowl creatures and beings for 80 years would do to a continent. It all fell into the sea. Galadriel barely made it over the mountain before that part of the story officially broke out.
I'm not sure gwaihur would have 6,000 years. First lord of eagles was Thorondor, but whilst Gwaihir could have been alive at that time, I think it's never said that he was alive during wars in Beleriand.
Thank you for that comment I was thinking the exact thing and wondering why no one else mentioned it!
Very informative
Basically, the Istari, the Balrog, Sauron and Morgoth are the oldest beings in The Lord of the Rings, as they were created before time.
Galadriel, as a Noldor Elf, is significantly younger, as she was born on Arda, which also applies to the other Elves and even Treebeard.
The Nameless Beings and Tom Bombardil are a matter of negotiation, as it has never been fully clarified what they are and where they come from.
Should the Nameless Beings be Ainur, they too would be older than time, but should they be dissonances in the Ainulindale, they would have been born with the world.
Tom Bombardil is not Iluvatar, which actually rules him out as the oldest being, but nobody knows what he is either, so here too an Ainur would be conceivable, but he could also be something completely different
hey mindq, can you please upload the 10 most scariest big cats in movies?
Technically durins bane was awakened by the dwarves, not the company. He just became active when the goblins surrounded the company because he could probably sense another Maia nearby and was curious.
I recall Bombadil clearly stating he was the oldest he is a Maiar and remembers the first rain drop first seed "the oldest is what I am" Makes it sound like he was there "first" and is the oldest. That's from the authors own hand argument solved.
Tom Bombadil is not a Maiar. Tolkien never actually fully decided what he is, it is left purposely vague.
Great Tune in the backgrounds , Name ?
Durin's Bane did not lie dormant until awakened by the Fellowship of the Ring.
Durin's Bane was awakened by the dwarves of Khazad-Dum when they "delved too deep". Orcs alone could not have driven the dwarves from Moria.
Man... they should've dove headfirst into some of the more obscure characters in Rings of Power. So much potential... I can't believe they weren't able to navigate the legal issues of some of the characters.
Actually we know that the Witchking was NOT one of the Númenórean kings, because there is a reference to the strongest of the three Numenorean kings submitting to the greater magical power of the one who became the Witchking. Also like you said we first see the first versions of all of the nine in 2251 of the Second Age, but that means they had already been kings AND corrupted by that time and no way could they all have been corrupted at the same time , so even the youngest has to be like 50 years older than the 4209 years from that date to the ring's end.
Sauron, Durin’s bane and Gandalf known as Olorin before his arrival to Middle Earth are maïar. They were created by Eru before the world itself and sang with him during the Ainulindale.
Just by looking at the thumbnail, I know that your video is poorly made.
The wizards, Sauron & the Balrogs are the same age, they helped creating the world with the song of creation
I could tell by your thumbnail you already made several errors. in no way is Galadrial older than any of Aniur, including the wizards.
You're making this up aren't you?
Even if you ignore the fact their creation predates the universe itself and only count when they permanently moved into Arda Sauron and Durin’s Bane would predate any of the elves or the Ents as they were around during the ages of the Lamps in the Spring of Arda. Only the Nameless Things and possibly Tom would have been around in Arda before them, assuming they came into being when Eä and Arda within it were created.
young master gandalf im glad youve come. wood and water,stock and stone i can master. but there is a wizard here locked up in his tower.
you know the tree is old when he says gandalf is young
Thats bc gandalf and the other wizards didnt come to middle earth till the third age but are older than middle earth and the elfs
Durin's Bane was not awakened by the Fellowship, it was awakened by the construction of the dwarven city of Khazad Dum. Also, it was a Maiar spirit corrupted by Melkor and so was the same age as every other Maiar
Not exactly by the construction of Khazad Dum, the dwarves went deeper into the mountain after Mithril that they could mine.
where are your source of references? blogspot?
I know Tom personally
He currently lives in a small rural city in Manitoba Canada called Portage La Prairie and he delivers the mail for Canada post, he makes home made meed (not very good) and is a master angler fishman
He and Goldberry (a nurse) have 2 kids
didn't expect C'thulhu monsters to win this one!
Correct me if i'm wrong but before the creation of the lamps, Morgoth battled with the other Valar alone right? hempering their progress, then the Valar made the lamps and Morgoth destroyed them, then he made Utomno and during this time Sauron and other maiar that would become Balrogs joined him correct? And then the elves awoke and Morgoth started corrupting etc, etc...
I read all the Tom Bombadil bits and ended up older than all of these.
Even when took into consideration the artificial counting them from their formation on the world Galadriel is definitely not older than Sauron (and Cirdan for that matter) him being black captain of Melkor during Utumno´s war and before that member of the host of Aule forming the Arda which both predated wakey wakey for the elven folk.
Well, we also need to take into account him not having bodily form. By losing his form in the destruction of Numenor, would Sauron's ME age start over again? Is it based on physical form or presence in Middle Earth regardless of form? If having a physical form then Gandalf, Sauruman et al. would be as old as Sauron.
@@guibox3Sauron has a physical form. Gollum described him as having 9 fingers
Gandalf, Sauron, and the Balrog helped sing the world into existence, sooo….
I always liked it when Treebeard greeted Gandalf “Young Master Gandalf”
What was the diff between Ainur and Valar again? Valars were the ones who chose to descend into Eru' creation right?
Valar is the higher caste of Ainur, maiar being the lower, they are Iluvatar's thoughts given life their status reflect their importance in his designs.
Sauron, Gandalf and Durin's Bane are the oldest on this list, as they are all Maiar, and existed before the making of Arda.
What a load of bilge.Meanwhile,within the pages ofThe Silmarillion, the reality of Tolkien's magnificent creation plays out.
Balrogs were Maiar, and were beings before the making of the world. They were parts of the Great music, that sided with Morgoth. They were the same as Sauron.
Wow so you didn't listen to a word that was said in the video
@@mindq4328the video is full of inaccuracies
Is Cirdan the only named 1st generation elf in middle earth? I can't remember if Glorfindel had a mother and father or if he was 1st gen
There is a french Channel named "Terres oubliées" who stole your video.
He took all your phrases and translate them with an AI voice.
He stole from other Middle-Earth youtube creator like "Ink and Fantasy", "Tolkien Untangled" or "Realms unravelled"... :(
"Ink and Fantasy" won his strike ! Hope you will too :)
Galadriel was over 8000 years old if you do the math from Morgoth's Ring (Book X in the HOME series). She was 2000 years older than Elrond.
I had expected to see Treebeard very high in the list and of course Tom Bombadil the oldest. Since those "nameless creatures" don't mean anything to me, that expectation was fulfilled :)
Sauron is older than Galadriel by a country mile
Sauron existed at the time of which the elves were created.
Sauron (Mairón), Durin's Bane (A.K.A. Balrog of Morgóth) and the Wizards lived long before the "Ainulindale (The Songs of Ainur)." Regardless of their arrival in Middle Earth, because they were there when Arda has been formed before the two lamps (before the creation of the two trees).
In regards of Tom Bombadil, he is a misterious character of Tolkien's lore and said to be the most ancient one and fatherless. Well, some of the Tolkien scholars theorized that he is indeed Erü Illúvatar himself, disguised as a jolly old man. Even the Quendi, the first awakened elves cannot say for sure his origin. Only the late J.R.R. Tolkien and his son, Christopher Tolkien know of his origin, for sure.
The Nameless Things are one of those ancient creatures who have ever lived the Arda before the first awakening of the Quendi (the first elves) or maybe before the creation of Arda itself. Some theorized that they came from the void, but I cannot say anything about it for it has a vague explanation of their origin. But, even the Maiar do not dare to mess with those creatures for those are more powerful than them. Even Gandalf encountered one himself in the darkest depth of the Earth, but he chose not to disturb it for he was frightened by its presence.
The Witch King wasn't properly alive at the time of Pellinor Fields.
"Before kicking the mithril bucket" 😂
ha. When Tom Bombadil talked about dark lord he meant Eru Iluvatar.
Suron, Balrogs and Istari (Gandalf, Saruman and the rest of the Wizards) descended to arda at the same time the Valar did. Meaning they're as old as the Valar themselves, created by Eru Iluvatar. They took their different forms later. I.e. The wizards were sent by the Valar to Middle-Earth to catch Sauron after Morgoth's defeat and they were sent in the form of old men so they couldn't use their full power in order to not interfere with the peoples of Middle-Earth. Long story shor, as I said, Sauron, Balrogs and the Wizards were as old as the Valar
Why didn’t you include Durin the Deathless who lived to be at least 2395 years old?
Because he died a "little bit" before the end of the Third Age? So he can't be one of the oldest beings at that point in time.
@@kaltaron1284 he awoke sometime during the years of the trees and he died just before the end of the First age.
@@jonathanthomas4182 Yes. So he doesn't count for a list set at the end of the Third Age.
Probably a fan of that Amazon bastardization
Please do your research on the actual lore.
Sauron, the Balrog, and the Istari (Wizards such as Gandalf) were of the same Maiar class, the second class of beings created. The first were the Valar, like Aule the creator of the seven fathers of the Dwarves.
Both are easily thousands of years old before the first Elves awoke at Cuivenen.
It's not good to share lore in an inaccurate manner, it'll only confuse.
you used Bilbos age to determine the average lifespan of hobbits. Bruh His soul was literally being stretched thin so the ring could stay active and reach out to Sauron. Had nothing to do with a hobbits natural ability to live long lives lol
Tom Bombadil...... I want more of him
Imagine living 3,000 years and still looking and being healthy like your 30s. I would but not nowadays but from 3,000 bc. Curious to see how it was back then.
Kind of nuts that Legalos is almost a thousand years older than Gandalf
He's not. Gandalf is a Maia, and was alive at the time of the music, if not possessed of a physical form.
The Fellowship didn't wake the Balrog....the dwarves in Moria did.
So Tolkien's Nameless Things and Lovecraft's Elders Things are the same?
My interpretation of Tom is that he is some sort of earth spirit, much like his wife is water spirit, and was born the moment Eru made Earth a reality, before Maiar and Valar ascended there.
So these nameless things are basically Shoggoths and LOTR takes place in the Lovecraftian universe? Because that drawing at 7:33 is an actual drawing of a Shoggoth.
It's funny how in so many different lores the older the beings are, the more they resemble the beings from H.P. Lovecraft's lore
Because they are all drawing from the same ancients stories of primordial chaos.
@@TroySavary Can you name some examples? The primodial chaos of the Greek pantheon is the only one that ad hoc come to my mind, but I don't remember it being very lovecraftian
MY BOY TOM BE UP THERE!
Sam gazed in wonder at Galadriel
as if Dawn blazed in dusky MiddleEarth
inert, anaesthetized by beauty's spell
acutely conscious of his puny worth
if Celeborn were wiser, he'd discern
how far above his station he had wed
but even he's not dumb enough to spurn
this mighty Noldo hot to share his bed
the timeless moment passed, the tale moved on
a brief vignette of love transgressing class
'though Bilbo might recast it in a song
Sam'd never dream to call his host an ass
to think such thoughts encrimsoned Sam's coarse face
a worthy gard'ner knows a peasant's place
Sauron and Gandalf are Maiars older than the rest.
Well done age chart.
7:37. Azathoth, is that you? OMG! This creature truly has Lovecraftian horror qualities, it's truly an eldritch abomination.
All Ainur spirits have the same age. To say that Magicians are 2000 years old is to completely not know Tolkien. Magicians, Balrogs, Sauron, Morgoth have the same age and he is about 10-50 thousand years old. Do not mislead people, if you had read the Silmarillion, then you would know that all the Ainur were created at the same time even before the creation of Arda
"Young Master Gandalf" indeed 😅
Saurons older than galadriel and most others as he was created before middle earth
Tom Bombidil was older than the elves, the wizards, and the hobbits.
I may have 4.700 years but I look much younger than that. Mostly people tell me that I look like 3.500~3.600 years old...
The Balrogs And Sauron are older than Galadriel far older they where with morgoth in utumno and angband before the awakening of the Elves and galdriel wasn't even one of the first elves as you sayed in the video she was born in Valinor so she wasn't part of the first elves whitch where not as old as MAIAR AND VALAR so pleas try to make the video again caus thats not good
Lots of confusion here. Fangorn isn't older than Sauron. Fangorn was around before "The First Age" but Sauron (Mairon) was around when the world was created. Same for the Balrogs. Gwaihir - his name means "Wind Lord" but, well, he wasn't the King of the Eagles. That was the Eagle that rescued Gandalf in The Hobbit. When Gandalf is talking to Gwaihir in Return of the King about how many total times Gwaihir has carried Gandalf, the rescue/being carried by the (King) Eagle in the Hobbit isn't included. There is confusion in the notes Christopher Tolkien published about how old Gwaihir was, but he might have been around in the 1st age so he might be as old as you suggest.
Isn't it logical to assume that the great eagles produced other great eagles just as their normal counterparts? Thorondor was the greatest eagle pre-1st Age and the only eagle of merit mentioned in Tolkien's writings before The Hobbit. Why is it not feasible that Ghawhir was simply hatched along the way, perhaps even in the 2nd age or even the 3rd? He doesn't HAVE to be over 6000 years old.
@@guibox3 Gwaihir and Landroval were mentioned in the pre-published Silmarillion as coming to the aid of Beren and Luthien. Christopher took them out, then later regarded doing so a mistake.
6:37 eleven thousand tree hundred years… seems fitting
Dude Gandalf was around 55,000 years old
Sauron is actually over 54,000 years ago.
In Part 2 or 3 of Lord of the Rings, Gandalf said he is on Earth for about 300 Lifetimes and now he hasn't Time anymore.
(atleast he said that in the German Version, not sure if it's correct translated)
But if he is 300 Lifetimes old and you think about an low average age of like 50 Years, he must be like 15.000 Years minimum.
Gandalf is a maiar. He is waaaaaaay older than 2000 years old
Correction: the closest approximation of Gandalf's physical age is 24,000 years, according to Gandalf himself. However, various dates for key events in Tolkien's other texts indicate that Gandalf actually walked in his physical form for just over two thousand years.
I would make a correction to this, with Tom Bombadil being number one. While there's much speculation around this mysterious being, it's generally accepted that he's the incarnation or the embodiment of the Earth itself which would indicate he is as old as Arda itself. The Ring itself could not corrupt Tom Bobadil because it would be tantamount to trying to corrupt all of Middle Earth itself. With that being said, he is arguably one of the First in Middle Earth.
Tom Bombadil was intentionally left mysterious. It’s not clear what he is, other than Tom Bombadil. There’s no way to determine his age. Questions like this are unanswerable because Tolkien wanted it that way.
@@dzerkleYes we know. But we know roughly that he is as old as Arda and that the Ring cannot corrupt him. That tells you two things, he's an embodiment of Arda, and that the Ring itself doesn't have enough juice to corrupt Arda. I'm not sure what you are trying to refute here.
Maiar are older than Middle Earth itself they are the same age as The Valar all Ainur were Eru’s First creations.
Have u listens to what he said? He talked about their physical body like when the manifested and CAME to middle earth. But yeah they are timeless but watch the vid again he stated how he counted.
@@benLandgraf I was listening and watching the video, I was simply stating what some may not know as far as their actual age, or origin.
I always thought it odd when Gandalf says that the Nameless Things are older than Sauron, Sauron was there before the Middle Earth was made singing it into existence, perhaps they originate in the void.
Context is everything. He was talking to the Fellowship, so he meant the creature was older the Sauron as a Dark Lord, not his existence per se. The monster is probably one of Melkor's experiments before Sauron turned evil or before Sauron became the biggest enemy in Middle Earth (Second Age).
@@faustomadebrThere's actually no way to be sure what they are and how they were created, since Tolkien said little to almost nothing about that. My guess though is that they are something beyond Melkor and Sauron, such as is Ungoliant. The way Gandalf describes the Nameless Things is unique and quite different from the way he describes Durin's Bane or any other foe from the Free Folk. He speaks of the Balrog with fear and some might say with respect considering you can have this feeling for an enemy as well. But the Nameless Things he speaks with certain disdain, as if they were too grotesque forms of life which should remain nameless and forgotten from creation.
@@marcelomuniz4972 Im not saying Im sure, just clarifying Gandalf's explanation. Tolkien let these unexplained things exactly because it is how many myths are created.
Time does not exist outside of the created universe, Eä, of which Arda is only a part. The Ainur had no age until they actually entered the world and there's no particular reason to think they all entered at once. So, the Nameless things were created, however that was, before Sauron entered the world.
Gandalf, bombadil, sauron, balrog, saruman were the oldest ones
Bombadil's name in the Elvish, Iarwain Ben-Adar, means "oldest and fatherless". So I think you should read a bit more before ordering these things - Bombadil is clearly stated to be the oldest!