Excellent review and sound demos. Those spkrs do both electric and acoustic guitars really well and drums pretty damn realistically. I’d obviously have to be in the room to get a full impression of soundstage and imaging,, but your description of everything was pretty spot on as far as I could hear. Overall, I got a sense of great tonality and dynamics with the room mics especially. Thanks, Ron.
Really great review! Thank you so much for this....Love that you take the plunge with proper mics to give us a decent approximation. Sounds really great...was wishing for some real jazz in there, but respect your track choices for the sake of reference. Likely you address this later, but it seems a long room with high ceilings can do particularly funny things with long wavelengths. I encountered exactly that in our living room. Some pitches in the lower registers would be very full and palpable, then others not much lower seemed to disappear. It also completely depended on the tracks and whether compression was a predominate factor (or not). Then repositioning against the short wall fixed SO MUCH. Much better. But now am restricted to more near field volumes or bass becomes overbearing or chaotic, sometimes glaring. Glad to know these would work well for jazz/acoustic leaning recordings.
Hi John! Thanks so much for sharing your experience with your listening room! Yeah, I have some weird peaks and dips and now ill need to make some adjustments! I wish more reviewers out there would adopt measurements so they have a better understanding of what their room is actually doing! Heck, if I didnt measure all this and actually see whats going on, I would have just assumed these speakers have issues and thats not a good/honest review at all!
@@Newrecordday2013 Your approach to your room helps inspire me to go ahead and try some software to record and measure my area. Don't think my wife will let me buy any bass traps! But I think the measurements will help with some finding incremental furnishings that could compliment the sound. Thank you for your insight and for what you do!
Also, thank you for turning us on to the CSS audio Critons. I didn't know they offered prepackaged diy kit versions of those 2TDs. Much more affordable that way.
That string bass sounded perfect to me. Nice speakers I have got to agree with someone who said an amp with more power may help. I may be looking into this speaker for my bedroom. I'd like to hear it with 60 to 80 w maybe 50 w I would think may do the trick. Thanks for the review.
This speaker is laid out like a ProAc EBT. The EBT came out in the mid 80s. I have the EBTs and still love them. These speakers should be good for all kinds of music. Bass may be found lacking, but you can use a subwoofer to augment the bottom end. Stay safe my mates!😊👍🏻😁🛠
I like these,as much as one can tell over RUclips, through the near field mics but not as much through the room mic. I guess this is that "exciting toed in(on axis) but boring off axis" that you mentioned. Not sure if it is just the differences in your gear but if Im hearing what you are then I agree with you. With one exception - loved how the room mic sounded on the piece you call "possibly perfect" for some reason that was "perfect" on the room mic. I'm assuming that the room itself is causing this.
Thanks, Sounded really good through my little hotrod IEM's and amp , Digging the visual on descriptive terminology. Quick question? Did you try them with Danny's open baffle subs? You know you did.🤣 . Going out on a limb and gonna say ,that was the ticket... Great review 👍✌️
I don't believe that you can hear how speakers actually sound by listening to audio clips on your headphones through RUclips. What I found useful is your comments on what you were hearing, that follow each clip, and subtitles explaining some terms. This was very well done. Also thumbs up for "you need a sub" and "two subs are always better than one" advice. I have a question: CSS sells the same $3400 speakers as a DYI kit for $800. Will the speakers built from the kit sound the same and the price difference basically comes from the cost of labor and superior cabinet finish?
Hi dennem! Thanks so much for taking the time to leave a comment! I completely agree with you on sound clips. For many years, I avoided them all together but after so many comments asking to hear the gear or speakers, I decided to give it a try. Without the commentary, I think its very hard to have context as to what I am hearing and not knowing what you all are playing this back with, makes it even harder. Anyhow, totally agree and thanks for the kind words! To answer your question, the answer is YES as long as you opt for the upgraded crossover which is +$400. So, with that crossover and the flat pack, im showing a checkout price of $1364.00+shipping. Hopefully this helps!
New Record Day Don’t listen to this guy. What you’re doing is awesome. It actually is very helpful. It’s a great concept - keep it going. The sound recording and your critique along the way is great. If you could make the audio downloadable that would be pretty cool but not necessary.
Hi Doan Trinh! Thanks for the comment. I don't think there is anything to disagree with him about his comment. He has a valid point and we see eye to eye. With that being the case, the soundclips will remain as part of the review process as long as people generally seem to like them. Thanks!
New Record Day exactly, it’s your commentary within the context of the clips that works very well here. In the future reviews if you could use samples with vocals that would be really helpful. I believe female vocals are great for testing naturalness, the “body” of the sound and possible harshness in the upper midrange (violins are good for that too). Thank you for your response and keep delivering great content!
Hello I’m looking to the css p215 or the Dynaudio special 40 which will be a better speaker. I know the base will better on the special 40 , but as far as the midrange and top end.thanks
The diy kit includes two identical ports (similar in length and girth) for both the midband woofer and the lowband woofer. And the internal bracing (according to the building instructions) divides the cabinet into two identical sized compartments. So not a lot of cabinet tuning went into this design. Which might explain the midband heft and thin low end. Unless, of course, it's a two way - three unit design where both woofers actually share the exact same job.
If I'm not mistaken these drivers use xbl^2 motors which are very low distortion. Ron, are you accustomed to hearing a little more distortion and liking it? Might be why you aren't too thrilled with the bass. Some people say xbl^2 drivers produce "dry" bass. Btw, I use Stereo Integrity drivers (xbl^2) in my car. And, yes, they are great for jazz.
The drivers in this one are not XBL^2 at the moment. They do use very low distortion linear drivers though, which as you mentioned, some people find to be a drier sound. Very flat frequency response can also be described that way, which these have. There is no artificial emphasis in the bass region like many manufacturers generate. We will be releasing a new tweeter soon which is XBL^2 and will be offering an upgraded version of this speaker as well as trade ins for anyone who wants to upgrade. Within the next year, we should have an XBL^2 woofer upgrade as well.
I've been struggling with my LS50s and the lower frequency for about a year now... The bottom line here is you need to do room analysis and figure out where do your speakers sound best in YOUR room with your room's furniture etc. @Ron : I think a detailed video about how to measure a room and how to position speakers by understanding the measurements will be great. No one has done it before yet everyone keeps talking about it... What do you think? Can you do it?
"Or it’s just a personal choice to place your speakers that far out into the room to enjoy deeper soundstage?" Yup, thats it! I voiced them by experimenting using my soundstage setup process which was outlined a while back in a FF episode. ruclips.net/video/MOY_SneLtro/видео.html
Hey Ron, good review. Let me guess, your room is perhaps sucking out some of that bass to where I can hear it when close miced, but loose it when you go room mics. To quote Eric O of South Main Auto, "there's your problem lady!" Unless sadly mistaken, it's sucking out some of the bass, either through the speakers (in these speakers at least), being too far out in the room and with perhaps a tad too much damping, or both. Otherwise, they do sound great. Looking forward to Ch. 4 when you discuss this in a bit more detail.
My man, John! You might be right! Im still experimenting on ironing out what the heck is going on... more to come in the next video. Thanks for watching bro!
@Newrecordday2013 Yes. As I follow the dialogue on this speaker, several people say to spend more and buy this speaker over the TD1. (Which is hard to believe) Maybe because it is easier to drive with lower quality electronics. More bass does take more power. I was on the fence until I saw this review. Thank you.
I would stay with well known brands like B&W or Revel at this price point. If they have a grace period, in-home trial would be the only way to try them to see if one likes them.
Yes, we have a 30 trial on all of our products. Finished speakers include a refund of shipping costs and free return labels. Kits, even assembled, can be returned minus the shipping costs.
I was wondering if it is any kind of a letdown to hear conventional speakers after hearing the big Polks at the show? Judging from the reactions I heard that could be an issue. Great job, Ron.
Eh, those L800s were insane to hear for sure! Was everything else a letdown? Hmmm, lets just say I REALLY need to get those in for review before I cast my final judgement. I really liked that SDA technology and think those were a lot of fun to listen to!
is it just me, or is listening to speakers, while wearing headphones... well is that the way to do it? I don't like wearing headphones even when I'm not listening to speakers. But maybe that's just me.
Pardon me if I'm misinterpreting something here..., But, I have to be a Patreon member to get the tracks, artist information, used in this video? Do you own the rights to these tunes? If not, it seems that you are, in effect, profiting from the work of the artists featured in your videos by requiring Patreon membership to obtain this information. I would rather see you use your channel as an opportunity to allow these artists to profit by revealing the tracks--title, etc. Again, my apologies if I've overlooked something here.
@@Newrecordday2013 I remember thomas & stereo often talk about some speakers need a much more powerfull amp to deliver some puchy bass, ofte amps around 300watt pr channel, as already mentioned, a more powerfull amp might make the bass better?
I think there are many variables at play here. 1st, how loud are we listening to the music and what is the sensitivity? I am using my LIO which is only 25 watts into 8ohms but being high current, it does double down to 50 watts into 4 ohms. Its a pretty powerful sounding amp but sure, if I want to crank these speakers, more watts would most likely make sense. These days. I typically listen between 80-85 with dynamic swings up to 90db so nothing SUPER loud. But yes, I do think if someone was to hit the checkout on these guys, a good starting point might be closer to 100 watts. If Kerry from @CSS wants to chime in, hes more than welcome to give recommendations.
I suggest you should write "I TRY to be fair and balanced" while receiving money from them. Succeeding in balancing the two is... hard to say the least. But I can easily understand that you AIM to do it.
Yup, bass is enough for smaller room (or transmission) and tweeter need more energy to cope with two midbass driver (emt or horn) generally rather good pair of spk 😉👏
I have vintage Paradigm bookshelves, that do exactly what they claim and that is the cut off below 40hz. These speakers sound like they dip much further then 40. I would say probably around 30 and even then you wouldn't need a big sub for fill, just something that adds a little depth below that 30hz line. They do sound great, a little weird with some instruments definitely, but then again they are bookshelf speakers.
The add on bass module is only for the 1 TD-X not this MTM. I've assembled the add on for my 1 TD-X's and it's excellent. Percussion has never sounded better. Pics at the CSS site for the Add on.
I don't understand the point of recording the speaker with a mic on front of each.... no one would ever be able to listen to them that way... it's just two mono recordings merged into an impossible stereo sound
Hi Juan, Thanks for asking! The headphones are just allowing me to monitor what you all are hearing from the sound clips. The clips are for you guys to enjoy what I already know and have heard in the speaker.
Fabulous 'critical listening' example of how a speaker should be listened to and assessed. Great stuff, Ron!
I built the 2TDx its very impressive, possibly the best speaker I have ever heard
I'm really liking the (new) format! Keep up the great work.
Hey, thanks so much for the kind words! Appreciate it!
Very very impressive analysis of the speaker. 4 thumbs up! Including the thumbs on my feet. Thank you Ron for your dedication, thank you.
I think all sound clip videos should announce the source (analog, digital and device make & model) and the amplifier (make & model).
Thanks for the feedback, appreciate it!
This is what a speaker review should be, thank you!!
Excellent review and sound demos. Those spkrs do both electric and acoustic guitars really well and drums pretty damn realistically. I’d obviously have to be in the room to get a full impression of soundstage and imaging,, but your description of everything was pretty spot on as far as I could hear. Overall, I got a sense of great tonality and dynamics with the room mics especially.
Thanks, Ron.
Awesome! Thanks for watching man!
Really great review! Thank you so much for this....Love that you take the plunge with proper mics to give us a decent approximation. Sounds really great...was wishing for some real jazz in there, but respect your track choices for the sake of reference. Likely you address this later, but it seems a long room with high ceilings can do particularly funny things with long wavelengths. I encountered exactly that in our living room. Some pitches in the lower registers would be very full and palpable, then others not much lower seemed to disappear. It also completely depended on the tracks and whether compression was a predominate factor (or not). Then repositioning against the short wall fixed SO MUCH. Much better. But now am restricted to more near field volumes or bass becomes overbearing or chaotic, sometimes glaring. Glad to know these would work well for jazz/acoustic leaning recordings.
Hi John! Thanks so much for sharing your experience with your listening room! Yeah, I have some weird peaks and dips and now ill need to make some adjustments! I wish more reviewers out there would adopt measurements so they have a better understanding of what their room is actually doing! Heck, if I didnt measure all this and actually see whats going on, I would have just assumed these speakers have issues and thats not a good/honest review at all!
@@Newrecordday2013 Your approach to your room helps inspire me to go ahead and try some software to record and measure my area. Don't think my wife will let me buy any bass traps! But I think the measurements will help with some finding incremental furnishings that could compliment the sound. Thank you for your insight and for what you do!
Also, thank you for turning us on to the CSS audio Critons. I didn't know they offered prepackaged diy kit versions of those 2TDs. Much more affordable that way.
Sounds like a guitarist w a good tube amp is sitting in the room.....awesome!
That string bass sounded perfect to me. Nice speakers I have got to agree with someone who said an amp with more power may help. I may be looking into this speaker for my bedroom. I'd like to hear it with 60 to 80 w maybe 50 w I would think may do the trick. Thanks for the review.
This speaker is laid out like a ProAc EBT. The EBT came out in the mid 80s. I have the EBTs and still love them. These speakers should be good for all kinds of music. Bass may be found lacking, but you can use a subwoofer to augment the bottom end. Stay safe my mates!😊👍🏻😁🛠
excellent review
Hey Ron, love the segment. However, could you let us have a longer nearfield sound clip?
How long did you have in mind?
@@Newrecordday2013 15s/track? I can do w/o the room sound clip
I like these,as much as one can tell over RUclips, through the near field mics but not as much through the room mic. I guess this is that "exciting toed in(on axis) but boring off axis" that you mentioned. Not sure if it is just the differences in your gear but if Im hearing what you are then I agree with you. With one exception - loved how the room mic sounded on the piece you call "possibly perfect" for some reason that was "perfect" on the room mic. I'm assuming that the room itself is causing this.
Exactly right! You got it.
Thanks! Brilliant work! Which do you prefer? Sonus Faber Maxima Amator or these speakers? talking about sound obviusly
Thanks, Sounded really good through my little hotrod IEM's and amp , Digging the visual on descriptive terminology. Quick question? Did you try them with Danny's open baffle subs? You know you did.🤣 . Going out on a limb and gonna say ,that was the ticket... Great review 👍✌️
I don't believe that you can hear how speakers actually sound by listening to audio clips on your headphones through RUclips. What I found useful is your comments on what you were hearing, that follow each clip, and subtitles explaining some terms. This was very well done. Also thumbs up for "you need a sub" and "two subs are always better than one" advice.
I have a question: CSS sells the same $3400 speakers as a DYI kit for $800. Will the speakers built from the kit sound the same and the price difference basically comes from the cost of labor and superior cabinet finish?
Hi dennem! Thanks so much for taking the time to leave a comment! I completely agree with you on sound clips. For many years, I avoided them all together but after so many comments asking to hear the gear or speakers, I decided to give it a try. Without the commentary, I think its very hard to have context as to what I am hearing and not knowing what you all are playing this back with, makes it even harder. Anyhow, totally agree and thanks for the kind words! To answer your question, the answer is YES as long as you opt for the upgraded crossover which is +$400. So, with that crossover and the flat pack, im showing a checkout price of $1364.00+shipping. Hopefully this helps!
New Record Day Don’t listen to this guy. What you’re doing is awesome. It actually is very helpful. It’s a great concept - keep it going. The sound recording and your critique along the way is great. If you could make the audio downloadable that would be pretty cool but not necessary.
Hi Doan Trinh! Thanks for the comment. I don't think there is anything to disagree with him about his comment. He has a valid point and we see eye to eye. With that being the case, the soundclips will remain as part of the review process as long as people generally seem to like them. Thanks!
New Record Day exactly, it’s your commentary within the context of the clips that works very well here.
In the future reviews if you could use samples with vocals that would be really helpful. I believe female vocals are great for testing naturalness, the “body” of the sound and possible harshness in the upper midrange (violins are good for that too). Thank you for your response and keep delivering great content!
Totally agree on the vocal suggestion! Thanks!
Simply Excellent .
Hey! Thanks!
standard or upgraded crossover package?
Some say these are on par with much more expensive Dynaudio.
Hello I’m looking to the css p215 or the Dynaudio special 40 which will be a better speaker. I know the base will better on the special 40 , but as far as the midrange and top end.thanks
Great question, ditto for me.
Be sure to look at css site. If you get the p215 , you can add the base module. Kinda like subs.
I really like your assortment of test music. Can you list them somewhere?
Do you have a track list? I would love a playlist in Tidal with the tracks you test with
Hey Paul! I actually have all the tracks in WAV available to download via Patreon. Thanks so much!
@@Newrecordday2013 thank you!
Thank you!
@@Newrecordday2013 pay to know? Hmm...
The diy kit includes two identical ports (similar in length and girth) for both the midband woofer and the lowband woofer. And the internal bracing (according to the building instructions) divides the cabinet into two identical sized compartments. So not a lot of cabinet tuning went into this design. Which might explain the midband heft and thin low end. Unless, of course, it's a two way - three unit design where both woofers actually share the exact same job.
This is a 2-way, not a 2.5 or 3-way.
What are the test tracks in this clip? Thanks for the hard work and reviews.
If I'm not mistaken these drivers use xbl^2 motors which are very low distortion. Ron, are you accustomed to hearing a little more distortion and liking it? Might be why you aren't too thrilled with the bass. Some people say xbl^2 drivers produce "dry" bass.
Btw, I use Stereo Integrity drivers (xbl^2) in my car. And, yes, they are great for jazz.
The drivers in this one are not XBL^2 at the moment. They do use very low distortion linear drivers though, which as you mentioned, some people find to be a drier sound. Very flat frequency response can also be described that way, which these have. There is no artificial emphasis in the bass region like many manufacturers generate.
We will be releasing a new tweeter soon which is XBL^2 and will be offering an upgraded version of this speaker as well as trade ins for anyone who wants to upgrade. Within the next year, we should have an XBL^2 woofer upgrade as well.
I've been struggling with my LS50s and the lower frequency for about a year now... The bottom line here is you need to do room analysis and figure out where do your speakers sound best in YOUR room with your room's furniture etc.
@Ron : I think a detailed video about how to measure a room and how to position speakers by understanding the measurements will be great. No one has done it before yet everyone keeps talking about it... What do you think? Can you do it?
I can and I will. Challenge accepted!
where the bass is good and the rest is good is different positions, that's why you use subs and get the best of both worlds.
I agree! When you can use subs, do it!
Approx 6.3 feet from the front wall to the front of the speaker.
"Or it’s just a personal choice to place your speakers that far out into the room to enjoy deeper soundstage?" Yup, thats it! I voiced them by experimenting using my soundstage setup process which was outlined a while back in a FF episode. ruclips.net/video/MOY_SneLtro/видео.html
No solid dynamics or weight in the upper and mid bass??? Deal breaker
Hey Ron, good review. Let me guess, your room is perhaps sucking out some of that bass to where I can hear it when close miced, but loose it when you go room mics. To quote Eric O of South Main Auto, "there's your problem lady!" Unless sadly mistaken, it's sucking out some of the bass, either through the speakers (in these speakers at least), being too far out in the room and with perhaps a tad too much damping, or both.
Otherwise, they do sound great.
Looking forward to Ch. 4 when you discuss this in a bit more detail.
My man, John! You might be right! Im still experimenting on ironing out what the heck is going on... more to come in the next video. Thanks for watching bro!
Soooo these speakers were positioned like 12 feet out into the room?? And the bass is supposed to be full and impactful from this monitor??! Hummmm…
I wonder why all the other reviewers say you do not need a sub with the single woofer version of this speaker?
Easy. More woofers doesn’t always mean deeper bass.
@Newrecordday2013 Yes. As I follow the dialogue on this speaker, several people say to spend more and buy this speaker over the TD1. (Which is hard to believe) Maybe because it is easier to drive with lower quality electronics. More bass does take more power. I was on the fence until I saw this review. Thank you.
I would stay with well known brands like B&W or Revel at this price point. If they have a grace period, in-home trial would be the only way to try them to see if one likes them.
Yes, we have a 30 trial on all of our products. Finished speakers include a refund of shipping costs and free return labels. Kits, even assembled, can be returned minus the shipping costs.
I was wondering if it is any kind of a letdown to hear conventional speakers after hearing the big Polks at the show? Judging from the reactions I heard that could be an issue. Great job, Ron.
Eh, those L800s were insane to hear for sure! Was everything else a letdown? Hmmm, lets just say I REALLY need to get those in for review before I cast my final judgement. I really liked that SDA technology and think those were a lot of fun to listen to!
is it just me, or is listening to speakers, while wearing headphones... well is that the way to do it? I don't like wearing headphones even when I'm not listening to speakers. But maybe that's just me.
Pardon me if I'm misinterpreting something here..., But, I have to be a Patreon member to get the tracks, artist information, used in this video? Do you own the rights to these tunes? If not, it seems that you are, in effect, profiting from the work of the artists featured in your videos by requiring Patreon membership to obtain this information. I would rather see you use your channel as an opportunity to allow these artists to profit by revealing the tracks--title, etc. Again, my apologies if I've overlooked something here.
bass, different amp ? Bi amping? They sound clean most of the time, one of the midbass track a little on the heavy side.
Hey bro! Yup! All good points! What you are hearing is peak at 70hz in my room. Good ear!!!
@@Newrecordday2013 Same as the sprout 100, you didn't use that amp Ron? ;-)
Haha! No sir!
@@Newrecordday2013 I remember thomas & stereo often talk about some speakers need a much more powerfull amp to deliver some puchy bass, ofte amps around 300watt pr channel, as already mentioned, a more powerfull amp might make the bass better?
I think there are many variables at play here. 1st, how loud are we listening to the music and what is the sensitivity? I am using my LIO which is only 25 watts into 8ohms but being high current, it does double down to 50 watts into 4 ohms. Its a pretty powerful sounding amp but sure, if I want to crank these speakers, more watts would most likely make sense. These days. I typically listen between 80-85 with dynamic swings up to 90db so nothing SUPER loud. But yes, I do think if someone was to hit the checkout on these guys, a good starting point might be closer to 100 watts. If Kerry from @CSS wants to chime in, hes more than welcome to give recommendations.
I suggest you should write "I TRY to be fair and balanced" while receiving money from them. Succeeding in balancing the two is... hard to say the least. But I can easily understand that you AIM to do it.
Hey, thanks for the suggestion and thanks for watching! Appreciate it!
Hey Ron, is it possible to buy these speakers in europe without extra transportation costs or taxes.
Mvg Phil
Unfortunately we do not currently have a European distributor so there is no way around the shipping and taxes.
Yup, bass is enough for smaller room (or transmission) and tweeter need more energy to cope with two midbass driver (emt or horn) generally rather good pair of spk 😉👏
I have vintage Paradigm bookshelves, that do exactly what they claim and that is the cut off below 40hz. These speakers sound like they dip much further then 40. I would say probably around 30 and even then you wouldn't need a big sub for fill, just something that adds a little depth below that 30hz line. They do sound great, a little weird with some instruments definitely, but then again they are bookshelf speakers.
Correct, these have an F3 of 41 Hz and an F10 of about 33 Hz so you will get useable output into the lower 30s in room. Glad you liked them.
You look like Peter draws. Another RUclipsr that does art videos
Sorry, off topic question, what lighting fixture is that?
Thanks :)
Hi there! Assuming you mean the LED light, its a Falcon Eyes SO-28TD. Thanks for the comment!
Wonder what it would b like if one used a butt kicker.
Is there really a speaker this size that doesnt need a sub...
Buchardt S400 comes to mind
Just a friendly reminder, if you haven't watched the prior chapters, do it now! Links in description!
A little disappointed with this review. Did you happen to look at css base module add on? Would have solved your base concerns.
The add on bass module is only for the 1 TD-X not this MTM. I've assembled the add on for my 1 TD-X's and it's excellent. Percussion has never sounded better. Pics at the CSS site for the Add on.
These are a speaker that will fall over very easy just look at the base, can you say top heavy boys and girls !!!
I don't understand the point of recording the speaker with a mic on front of each.... no one would ever be able to listen to them that way...
it's just two mono recordings merged into an impossible stereo sound
Why are you listening to speakers while wearing headphones?
Hi Juan, Thanks for asking! The headphones are just allowing me to monitor what you all are hearing from the sound clips. The clips are for you guys to enjoy what I already know and have heard in the speaker.
After trying a pair of these, my impression is that they just lack life. They are OK but pretty boring to listen to and get tiring very quickly.
No bass? Probably cause their 167 feet out into the room!